Intro to Passive Solar Greenhouses: Session 1

[@magapefarmshomestead6453]

High tunnels, imho, are best for wind loading. But the biggest issue of the design is the ens caps. If those are not properly designed and executed you will have a higher probability of failure of the structure. If done properly it should last years.

[@corwynwarwaruk2141]

Looking forward to the next presentation

[@magapefarmshomestead6453]

I agree that a good design if basic and fundamental to its effectiveness for all season utilization. Whole passive is optimal if the design is proper there should be the ability to add solar pv as well as solar thermal collectors to it is such a way as the collectors will be protected from wind all year long and snow all winter long. With the addition of heat pump type systems it should be possible to heat and cool the greenhouse at little to no cost all year. The heat pump units could be added at any time. There is also the ability to add low grade geothermal to the greenhouse. While adding the low grade geothermal would be, probably, easier at initial build it also could be added at any time needed or afforded, if the greenhouse design is proper and good!

[@waywardspringsacres]

This system functions as low grade geothermal once the stored heat is used. I show that data in the second webinar.

[@davefroman4700]

Meanwhile there is a young chinese farmer in Olds Alberta Canada who is using the standard chinese design and successfully raising crops year round.

[@waywardspringsacres]

Unfortunately Jianyi is not able to grow crops year round either. I have been following his progress for a long time. He has a very nice system.

[@waywardspringsacres]

Jianyi's structure is not the standard CSG. It has a secondary structure over the CSG to keep the snow off of the insulated blanket. Cool design, but he still deals with freezing temps for some portion of the winter.

[@daieast6305]

these folks need to show us their own efforts at their own residence and give their talk while showing us around it is all about teaching by example.

[@waywardspringsacres]

I have multiple videos on my farm facebook page giving walk around tours. Check that out. Or if you have something specific you'd like to see, let me know and I can hook you up with that video or pictures.

[@steffybael1245]

@@waywardspringsacres some people do NOT use facebook because of known PRIVACY ISSUES!!

[@nicholaslogan5185]

​@@steffybael1245yelling in a KZbin comment at someone for offering a resource on a platform with privacy issues 🤣🤣🤣

[@gerretw]

what I want feedback on is - what about putting black pipe high in the green house, with a thermostat controlled pump, and pump the hot water down below grade into more black pipes to warm the soil, then circulating the cooled down water back up? Is this a good idea or not? If not, why?

[@waywardspringsacres]

Black pipe alone will not be able to absorb the heat as fast as this method. It also would require another separate system to withdraw the heat from the soil.

[@joansmith3492]

Disappointed that Solawrap was not discussed. What about putting plastic soda bottles filled with water placed next to the climate battery tubes underground? The are pretty tough and would not take up greenhouse space. what about putting water bottles in cinder block holes to increase thermal mass without taking up greenhouse space?

[@waywardspringsacres]

Solawrap is a neat new style of film product. In order to keep this presentation down to a reasonable time length I had to leave out so much good stuff. Anyway in general Solawrap costs about $1.75/sqft and has an r-value of 1.7 with 83% light transmission.

[@waywardspringsacres]

There are a lot of alternative methods to increase heat storage, your ideas for adding some underground water storage capacity is a good example. In the second presentation I analyze how well this soil only based method worked. One thing I observed is that the harder challenge is moving the heat fast enough into the thermal mass versus the capacity of the heat storage system itself. My foundation is poured concrete, but if you have block walls that would be a neat idea to study.

[@JohnGuest45]

@@waywardspringsacres I designed and installed a greenhouse with a soil based shcs system back in 2009, 12 years later it appears no one thinks outside the box anymore because its still the only one of its kind. I am glad someone else is trying to convince folks that long tubes and low airflow rates are not the way to go, i`ve been trying to save folks from making that mistake for years.

[@daieast6305]

thanks for your comment...do you practice these methods?

[@phillipk2490]

@@JohnGuest45 what is a "soil based shcs system" can you expound on this or direct me to a resource? Thanks!

[@krissfly]

I'm in the north west corner of Kansas. I have a small20' by 6'Up against A old ice house. The wall Is a foot Thick. I could put in3 20' long At 4' and 2'. what fan will I need for That system? Basically 60'Of pipe on each Level. I have 6" PVC to make the end pipes Thank you I watched both videos lots of information I would love to do the geothermal from A lion's Nebraska I even bought a backhoe but the land I live on is to contaminated with farm chemical

[@JohnGuest45]

Knowing the air volume of the greenhouse is important for correct design :)

[@mrvigour1]

Atmos Version 1.2 of their Climate Battery needs to be considered as well. It seems a big design improvement.

[@waywardspringsacres]

Yes, that is a neat concept. Its an innovative way to make a vertical manifold instead of the traditional horizontal style shown in this webinar.

[@waywardspringsacres]

Yes, they didn't exist when I started this project. Nice ideas from atmos.

[@JohnGuest45]

@@waywardspringsacres The Atmos 1.2 is not an new innovation, its old. If you check the early versions of the SHCS developed by John Cruickshank, you`ll see they used plenums, not manifolds. Manifolds came in much later and represent a backward step in many ways.

[@waywardspringsacres]

@@JohnGuest45 Agreed. The project I showed in this webinar is now over 5yr old. Have you seen the current project I've been dabbling with that doesn't have a manifold?

[@JohnGuest45]

@@waywardspringsacres I havent but i`ll definitely take a look :) I think manifolds were introduced mainly for convenience, they increase the costs and dont provide any performance benefit, in most cases they make the performance worse. I`m still running my original 2009 system which doesn`t involve any manifolds. I had a look at your new installation, its the 2nd one i`ve seen :) I think its one of the best options as it offers plenty of control / flexibility and distributes the air much more evenly in the greenhouse compared to a single inlet and outlet blowing a gale. It requires a lot of fans but you get the option PWM speed control and they can be powered by solar. I guess you have something like 48 fans? lol, not that expensive if you buy in bulk. I would probably go for 48v dc fans to reduce the current and wiring cost. Assuming the tubes are around 40ft long you might be able to run 100cfm thru each with the right fan. That`ll give you a velocity of around 17ft /sec which isnt bad. I`d recommend installing temperature sensors every 2ft inside one of the tubes which can tell you where the air reaches the mass temperature in the tube.This can be useful for optimization. These fans are reasonably priced and capable of delivering decent flow rates vs pressure: www.mechatronics.com/pdf/MR9238.pdf

[@riversedgegoatdairy297]

Question: can you burry "some" crushed rock then use alyaer of insulation then say 3 feet of top soil then u can plant plants directly into the gorund?

[@waywardspringsacres]

A layer of insulation would be detrimental because it would prevent the deeper ground temperature from coming up when the batteries stored heat is exhausted. Crushed rock is usually much more expensive than soil with minimal increase in heat storage capacity.