Modern Forehand Problems at the Recreational Level

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Find out what every high-level forehand has in common👇 kzbin.info/www/bejne/gpOpdqCmm76AnqM

[@Shankar-Bhaskar]

Name one tennis player who hits his/her forehand with an eastern forehand grip, and also has a double bent in their hitting arm. I think the double bent is a result of the semi western forehand grip, of course Nadal is a notable exception who hits with a semiwestern forehand grip, and also has a straight arm at the point of contact. Generally, this is not the case.

[@vagabondjx]

One of the best tennis instructional videos I've seen to date! Big kudos on addressing the correct audience: the majority of recreational players! It does me no good to know how Federer or Djokovic hits the ball because I am no where near their physical state or ability. This helps me a lot more! Keep them coming!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Sure will 🙏🙏

[@tordha]

I need to check the bushes at the local court, cus dude has apparently been seeing me trying to figure out a forehand.

[@videowatcher9024]

Great video! I've been trying too hard to roll my racket over for topspin but as you pointed out it is over in milliseconds - so I just stopped thinking about rolling over the point of impact and just let the swing happen. It's improving slowly and it feels more natural now. Thanks!

[@seanparker571]

Best explanation of wrist lag ever! So many try to emulate static body positions that are simply produced by changes in velocity.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Thank you Sean

[@youngchool]

Smart lesson! Intuitive is right. He reminds me of my former boss. He was from Southern Germany, very direct but open minded - boss but also a great teacher.

[@nickbyrd1027]

I definitely let the ball (and subsequently, my dominant shoulder) get behind me. I also have a bad habit of "flicking" my wrist and it's actually caused quite a bit of "golfers elbow" for me. Thanks for the great video!

[@mariobautista4229]

Omg i do thst doo, and end up with a lot of pain in my elbow! Thought I was the only one

[@josephskinner2019]

@@mariobautista4229 same here. I feel like an idiot now lmao

[@1984leandro1984]

The típ maintence position of wirst during the hit, that is what i needed. Thanks.

[@peppio]

you are always well prepared and a good observer.. i love the way you teach and translate for us the professional tennis

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Thank you Peppino

[@GrgaKlara]

najjaci tenis video. meni ste pomogli svaka cast

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Puno hvala

[@markbaarsbergen36]

Great vid thx! Started playing again after many yrs and trying to maater the new techniques, it is helpful to knkw that focus should still be on natural flow rather than trying to copy a visual image! 😁👍🏻

[@revstrof1]

This video fixed all my forehand. Thaks a lot. The best i've seen

[@Fernwald84]

Excellent video as always, Nick! Shortening the backswing, as you recommend, got me thinking about how to do so without losing any power. I remembered someone's KZbin video which maintained that as you add an additional inch of height to your loop in the backswing, you gain something like 2 mph increased ball velocity. So I experimented in combining your recommendation along with an increase in my backswing loop. To keep my backswing shortened, I increased the vertical component of my backswing, keeping the horizontal component shortened. I found immediately that I actually GAINED a noticeable amount of ball speed rather than loosing any speed or simply maintaining the speed compared to my longer backswing and reduced loop. The extra power required me to concentrate more on achieving a good low-to-high trajectory on my forward swing or my strokes would land long. The key sensation for me was the feeling that I was raising the racquet on the backswing as much as I was taking it backward. I gauge that my loop is only as large as that created by raising my racquet hand to around shoulder height. Keeping my grip on the racquet handle loose insured that I got a good wrist lag as the transition to the forward swing started. I've got a singles match tomorrow so I'll see if the results in today's rallying hold up.

[@ldeue4837]

Yeah whoever told you that a longer loop = more velocity or whatever term was used is not correct. The only thing that matter is the speed that your racket is traveling, and where it hits the racquet(butterfly net effect) and the angle of the racquet face.

[@Fernwald84]

@@ldeue4837 Right but a larger loop can aid increasing racquet head speed. It creates a longer space in which acceleration can increase.

[@ldeue4837]

Racket head speed is created from ground force and hip rotation, distance has very little to do with it. If it did you would see big loops at the pro level, which you do not. Power is overrated in tennis, in my honest opinion. Control, placement and strategy is much more important.

[@Fernwald84]

@@ldeue4837 The arm and racquet beam act as a lever. While ground force and hip (and torso!) rotation provide the kinetic energy to move the racquet head, it is the lever action that translates--actually amplifies--that energy into motion. If you doubt this, measure the speed at which your hips rotate. It is only a small fraction of the 60-100 mph velocity of the racquet head. The same situation exists with a whip. The hands move at only a fraction of the speed of the whip's tip. The racquet head is, by analogy, the tip of the whip. This is also the reason that the fastest shot is the serve, not the ground stroke. The whip-like action is magnified in the serve by the greater distance the racquet head travels while accelerated by the lever action of the torso and arms. The legs, BTW, only provide about 10% of the speed of a serve.

[@ldeue4837]

Everything you just explained is what you should be concentrating on, not how big or small your loop is but how effectively you use this leverage of your body...I look at 2 pro's with completely different hitting techniques but both are GS champion's....Novak Djokovic(bent-arm forehand) Rafa Nadal(straight arm forehand). This is something that is just natural, but it also will effective leverage even according to your definition. This is the point I am trying to make.

[@jacopobarone1911]

I have to say about the tons and tons of videos that I watched, this is the most accurate precise !!!! and really makes me understand what I am doing wrong. I realized that all the points and steps that you explain are exacly the same (although in a different manner explained and circumstances) that my tennis instructor says. I just battle between getting relaxed and hitting the ball letting my musclu memory and intuition doing the right things naturally and thinking too much rationally on the strokes, position, ball sight, coordination stance, swing etc etc and I think too much I become stiff and judgmental on myself and get depressed and play worse. So I think is may be just a matter on keep playin and mucle memorize all this CORRECTLY. Thank you much these videos are really praecious and very well done. Keep up the great work!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

🙏🙏

[@donho4109]

Nick, you are truly brilliant at pointing out some critical items to help the recreational players! Another great video and discussion! 👍👊🏻

[@IntuitiveTennis]

I appreciate it Don 🤜🤛

[@rockfederer6600]

Wooo 👌👌 perfect explanation actually I did all mistakes you mentioned I am trying to correct my forehand I hope next training get better forehand after watching this video Thanks 😊

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Thank you Rock

[@rokastverijonas8721]

Excellent video! Intuitive tennis became my favorite place to learn some new technique!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Thanks Rokas 💪💪

[@HDawg2121]

Great video. You are at the top of instructional techniques

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Thank you Harold

[@Wooist]

wow this was incredible... this might be the best tutorial of all time

[@Gidoza]

Wow I am doing the swipe so much and I was wondering why I kept shanking/framing my shots. I hope this will help me hit cleaner shots.

[@crsantin]

Good video. Good advice. For rec players 3.5-4.5 even, it’s best to keep it simple. The pros do some funky things. That Kyrios forehand is strange. He slaps the ball very quickly. Not a good technique for amateur players.

[@xt6274]

I love this video Cutting through the buzz words and giving us the advice we need. I also found the kinetic chain suggested video great. I'll continue to check this channel for further advice :)

[@sougata43]

One of the best morden forehand technique video

[@almacnamara2000]

Best observations and advice I've seen on modern forehand 👍

[@frandevel]

Thanks! Very good tip about the hitting shoulder being in front. Did not realize about this.

[@oPTToLatte]

amazing clarification on the typical forehand mistakes and myths! Thank u

[@shahayamarshel972]

Thank you very much on the informative video explaining the timing for separation of non hitting hand from the hitting hand,... for us as recreational players

[@xiaoyu2324]

My favorite vides! Great instructions for recs. I fixed a lot of problems with the help of these videos !

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Great to hear!

[@ahahm]

His analysis is always bang on!!

[@indianloveswhitney8408]

Great info buddy , the last part is where my problem was, gets me, this is really good thanks

[@stratguitarman7831]

Best coach on the net ! I enjoy your detailed videos!

[@kimiversen4655]

Very Sound advice. Thanks

[@victordu4694]

absolutely perfect explanation... has it all, thanks

[@mountaindrew_]

Is it just me or the "fake lag" is super hilarious😂 5:30

[@ShankarRam23]

Playing tennis again after a 4 year break and I've been trying to force what I had been naturally doing back then. This video pointed out the exact weak areas of my forehand! I'll work on those and keep getting better. Thanks for the amazing video coach!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

🙏🙏

[@KK-bc6ok]

thank you so much. this is very clearly explained. Recreational players need to understand the concept and the true way to create force towards the ball efficiently using the body, instead of arming he ball.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

My pleasure K

[@kensilverstone1656]

Extremely clear and helpful

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Glad to hear!

[@shahbazchoudhry5151]

very nice sir, straight arm and bend elbow very well demonstrated, you r great serving tennis..

[@TennisObsessed]

Thank you, I always wondered whether a bent arm or straight arm was proper.

[@transamination]

Great video, good explanations. I think there are some things you can learn/copy from watching pros and slow-mo videos (eg basic unit turn, supporting racquet with non-hitting hand etc) and things you can't (eg wrist-lag).

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Thank you 🙏

[@willkeyes8859]

As usual, another AMAZING video. Please create one for a two-handed backhand as well. Thank you!!!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Thank you Will and I will do 2HB soon 👍

[@mihiracharya5484]

Woah...... thanks a lot Nick That last tip about wrist is exactly what I needed 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻

[@kaustubhnadkarni5289]

One of the best forehand videos!

[@chokchaiser449]

Right explanation you are smart

[@roberthao644]

Literally just points out all problems on my forehand, great video!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Thank you Robert

[@LjiljanaŽivković-o1h]

BRAVO NOLE NAJBOLJI SI ZAUVEK PRVI NA SVETU

[@ripleypipe]

Yet more great advice - Happy New Year Nick! Gordon

[@IntuitiveTennis]

HNY Gordon 🙏

[@vivy_xo]

Awesome video Nick!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Thanks Natachi

[@ronaldbello9397]

tnx. one of the few good teachers!!!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Thank you Ronald

[@dg2973]

Right on point! Excellent exolained!

[@patrickweston3293]

Sound advice about the dreaded "wrist flick." Another reason not to do it: tendonitis. (I found out the hard way.)

[@dmitryprivate6558]

Did you fix your wrist tendinitis? If yes, how?

[@patrickweston3293]

@@dmitryprivate6558 Rest, followed by fixing my technique. The hitting hand stays in a "cocked" position throughout the swing. The forearm pronates. The wrist is relaxed but doesn't flex. All well so far. Better spin, too.

[@dmitryprivate6558]

@@patrickweston3293 Thank you for your reply and your suggestions.

[@imateapot51]

If your arm is still moving forward when you do the dreaded wrist flick then it should be natural. It is not like a windshield wiper it is going more forward, and the wrist and hand should not go past straight. The ball is struck and gone before most of the "flick" is done. You are striking the ball with a proactive force and not reactive. If you are breaking a board in Karate class they do not have you hold your hand out and then raise the board into your hand. I hit with the ATP forehand and if someone asked me do I flick my wrist I would say no, it is all natural. But my wrist and racquet are doing the exact same thing at contact and beyond that I used to do 10 years ago before lagging.

[@sohaimiismail921]

I find this very helpful!

[@TheSmartodd]

Brilliant tips for rec players - sure hope I can remember and execute

[@nirsade4392]

great video, very helpful, thanks

[@Blade-bc4ue]

Big thanks sir

[@eliastieleniuskruythoff7588]

Very usefull!! Thank you!

[@raysfonexchange]

Awesome video dude. Top notch content like this demands that I sub!!!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Thank u Ray

[@michaeldelcastillo1910]

Great breakdown and observations

[@NOLANISGODful]

Even your incorrect forehand demonstrations still looks good technically 👍🏻

[@Casatoman]

Great content. I liked and subscribed

[@shroom125]

When I signed up for tennis lessons we have been trained the mechanics for months before we switched to drills. From age 7 I don't remember anybody had to come and correct executions of my shots.

[@RK-ft9rn]

Thank you for sharing this video...Two questions...What causes the right elbow to chicken wing out away from body and with the modern forehand are we still using an inside to out swing path? Thanks!

[@felipeapolinario8842]

Is the wrist flick also related to inner elbow pain? I am an andvanced player and I have a powerful forehand but I am afraid that I am doing this wrist flick to generate top spin. In fact, my forehand has tons of top spin and power, but also I note that I use too much energy along the movement and also after more intensive trainning sections I often get this pain in the inner portion of the elbow. Is it due to a possible wrist lag? I mean, is this possible wrist flick "dissipating" my energy and causing me pain in the elbow? Thank you for the instructive video btw!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Thanks Felipe, I can’t tell wo seeing it but I’ll tell what my experience has been. I recommend that you record your forehand in super slowmo and see if you are actually flicking. It’s possible that you think you are flicking but in reality it’s occurring well after contact. If this is the case you can try to adjust your finish. I’ve never heard wrist flicking hurting the inner elbow but it’s possible. I think it’s called golfers elbow and John Isner has had it. I’ve had it a few years back on serve and forehand and it was from the strings I used. Hope you figure it out 🤙

[@roxyashinax5566]

nice video, i love tennis

[@IntuitiveTennis]

❤️🎾

[@AlexanderGr8]

Great video Nik 👍 and HNY my friend.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

HNY Ronnie

[@K4R3N]

7:20 I even manage to do some minor wrist damage with fake flick. I learned to stop doing this the hard way. We also call this "wiper motion"

[@tennis9281]

Nik, great video as always. I' m a little confused on a conceptual level about what a unit turn is conventionally considered. I mean, is the unit turn that you showed in the video a full unit turn or you would reach the full unit turn with the non dominant hand already realised? I ask you this because I think that yours is the real unit turn and most of the pros perform both the unit turn and the first part of the backswing with the non dominant hand still on the throat of the racquet. As for me, I tend to release the racquet just before the way you showed, so that I can then extend the arm and be sure to be always in time; technically I complete the unit turn with the non dominant hand just realised and keep going with the backswing. Curious to know what you think about this

[@IntuitiveTennis]

tennis92, thank you I explain the unit turn in the first 2 minutes of this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGqZdWatptWXaqc

[@omarsultanov362]

Brilliant!!! 👍💪🤗

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Thanks Omar

[@MyekalBenham]

Great breakdown. I feel like a Rec players run into problems when trying to force their techniques.

[@gametimetennis1456]

great breakdown i can't wait till i post my next video addressing this same issue.

[@georgememmos4872]

great advice! I was seeing my self with the wrist and elbow problems

[@charlesz8531]

"The wrist is passive." I like that. Also the fake "racket lag" tip is helpful.

[@user-mg8uf9sl3j]

One of the best forehand advice for recreational players. Only if they listen.. lol

[@seekheart2023]

Can you do some videos on drills for cooperation?

[@dandamerville]

great video -- if you would like an actual video of a rec player with every glitch you diagnose, i'm you man

[@Kapritchosa]

Nice colors...green and blue :-)

[@agustin6541]

Nik, this video is really useful. Please do a video on how to kill short balls. Saludos desde Argentina!!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

🇦🇷 🙌🙌

[@stewartbarnes3644]

If the wrist is passive at contact what is the point of lagging the racket head? This would mean that the racket head would only travel as fast as the arm can move. I always thought that lag was created so that the wrist action of losing lag would create a lever and increase the speed of the racket head at contact. You mention that the wrist does rotate in front of the body, but the ball has long gone. Obviously I have missed something, my apologies. Grateful for clarification.

[@cheahkc]

Can you comment on the racket face on contact? It is vertical and perpendicular to the floor or slightly close forward to get brush effect?

[@ared18t]

I find this video interesting since I have no problems with a straight arm. This is probably due to the fact that I used to play handballl for 5 to 6 hours a day.

[@mimo99991]

I have started integrating topspin into my forehand and it has greatly improved my tennis. However, I have experienced some wrist pain. What could be the reason for this? Am I doing something wrong or is it just my wrist not yet being adjusted to the movement?

[@vladastankovic3158]

Ooouuch! This hurts, man.. What was I thinkin' before? So many matches lost in vain.. Oh, well, I accept and adapt, let's go back to basics again, again, and again :)

[@jmasked5082]

i thought people hit forehands with a bent arm because then they can quickly adjust to where the ball actually ends up in the strike path. Would you say to consitently hit the ball with a straight arm requires either perfect body positioning relating to the ball or leaning into/away from the ball with the body, which creates balance issues?

[@benostlind2441]

I believe that how straight ones arm is at contact is purely a function of what grip you use. The more ones grip goes toward Western the more bent the elbow must be to keep racket face perpendicular to the ground. Conversely the more towards Continental the straighter the arm. By observing how bent arm is at contact you can tell how extreme a players grip is. If you hold your racket out with a Straight arm and a Western grip the face of the racket will naturally be closed (facing the ground).

[@shahbazchoudhry5151]

let it happened naturally... its great statement..

[@ronaldbello9397]

a lot of teachers try to let the wrist do the work... If I may say so the flexion of the elbow seems to be initiated by the position tot the ball? To close tot the ball. i think. A straight arm creates more power. Or not?

[@imateapot51]

I don't think the wrist lag is natural. I believe it is a very high level skill to completely relax the wrist (forearm muscles) which allows the racquet face and some of the handle to continue going backwards as you rotate your hips and hand holding racquet forward. Then the racquet face follows the laws of physics and rebounds back (free racquet speed), like an inverted pendulum. It is simply a very relaxed wrist and great timing. If it was natural and easy to achieve the WTA would be doing it and except for a few, they do not. A concern for young kids is the wrist lays back farther with the momentum of the racquet than one can lay the wrist back statically. An analogy would be bending over touching your toes to stretch your hamstring and someone pushes you down farther. What damage can this over stretching do to young growing kids? I see some 10 year old's lagging and is that going to be a problem? I am sure the USTA is looking into that (sarcasm). To learn to relax the wrist, use a 20-30 inch long 1/2 inch wood dowel and swing that rather than a racquet. A drill I used to do (pre covid) when teaching was have the kid stand in open stance with their right hip pressing against the net, and their right arm on the other side of the net and at least a foot clear. Then do an actual swing as if you are hitting the ball to the chair umpire. If you lagged the racquet face edge will clip the net and you will hear it. If you bring the racquet back and it stops for even a millisecond before rotating forward there will be little lag, and less acceleration forward. This is why timing is so important. I do not know of any players doing this before Federer. I have not taught a lesson since Covid. Today I went to hit against my ball machine at the local high school, they took the locks off just a month ago. A Korean woman asked if I would show her pointers. I went back to my car to get a mask and taught her for an hour then we both hit off the ball machine. I think if either of us had Covid we would have infected each other. There is no way to safely teach a beginner during these times.

[@meditationman415]

Thank you , this is excellent. I have a question what could cause tennis elbow?

[@IntuitiveTennis]

I’ll make a video on that

[@meditationman415]

@@IntuitiveTennis That'd be Great !!, and I'm sure VERY popular , Thank you:)

[@frankxu6537]

Yes we have to go get some new things

[@eliastieleniuskruythoff7588]

usefull!

[@bassmann666]

Now i am really confused, now whats the place of the famous “acceleration” of the hit using the wrist?

[@johnnyblackrants7625]

I think the statement about nadal’s wrist is provably wrong. If this guy were correct, Nadal’s forearms would be the same size. That isn’t the case: his right arm is huge because he uses it. The problem for recreational players is that they ONLY roll the wrist at contact, and they forget to drive their shot FORWARD towards the net while they do. This creates the inconsistency and the spraying. Moral - start with a passive wrist and ensure all your strokes fully extend towards the target before your follow thru. Once you have that, then add the wrist torsion WITHOUT cutting your swing short to do it.

[@davidjefferies9214]

Forearm size has nothing to do with the wrist. As nik says, look at slowmos of Nadal's forehand and the wrist will start turning after contact, not before. But hay, if you want wrist surgery, keep on trying to flick the wrist at contact.

[@zurbrure]

Another great video Nik. Thanks for all your effort and happy new year. I‘m an ITF senior 50+ player. Even if I‘m playing for more than 40 years I‘m trying to change my forehand more and more to a more modern one and as you explained it‘s first of all about the unit turn supported by the non dominant hand. Amazing video helps me to visualize the sequences of the forehand.👍💪🎾

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Thank you 🙏 zurbrure and HNY

[@leszekpeszek9261]

Hi there. Its possible to send a short movie about my forehand to check ? I spend a lot of time to improve my forehand as good as possible, but , still have some question about it that its correct or not ? heh

[@BlockThrone]

Amazing tips, but unfortunately this is high level stuff, where as recreational players get things totally wrong on a much lower/basic level. It took me 12 years to figure out what this is and if anyone can guess what it is, I'll share it with everyone here, otherwise I'm thinking of doing a course. I mean, it took me 12 years of hard work after all, so it must be worth something.

[@8uvrays]

I have recently implemented most of these concepts in my golf game and they made a world of difference. However, I think you might be giving the pros a little too much credit. My guess is that almost everyone has areas of their body they are stronger/faster in. So they hedge to find a way to use those areas more effectively. So they end up customizing their swing to use their strengths. That is why I am not in love with the concept of the kinetic chain. There is too much overlap with one part of the swing being in the backswing while other parts are already swinging forward. It is more a matter of finding the timing that works well for you. I find the only way I can get a hand movement of more than 6 inches is by slowing my core rotation more than a longer hand action is worth.

[@chrisc2439]

does the fake wrist lag issue also apply to 2handed backhands?

[@IntuitiveTennis]

It’s different on the BH

[@lordbyron3603]

Everything you have said in this video I learned on my own. It took 40 years however and thousands of practice hours! It’s strange watching someone like yourself demonstrate a stroke knowing exactly what you’re going to say before you say it. Would someone hearing this for the first time understand what is being taught? Probably not! When I mention the unit turn or the natural lag of the wrist after you snap it, it falls on deaf ears ... and these are people who have been playing for 20 years or more. I’ve often wondered asked myself how I was able to see it and why they aren’t able to! But then again, why did it take me 40 years for it to finally sink in. The answer I think is because I started tennis late ... after high school. My mind had already developed a preconceived notion of how to strike a ball. And unfortunately, it was wrong!!!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Glad you figured it out Lord 👍

[@hongbochen2319]

I think the big thing is to relax and loose the arm, let the racquet do the thing. In this situation, everything will just come naturally

[@claudioprado389]

I've learned that for us recreational players is no a good thing to try to hit the ball like the pro players do,I believe that the rule of thumb is play the simplest and efficient way possible. Can you imagine trying to hit a forehand like Jack Sock? it would be crazy isn' it?

[@IntuitiveTennis]

The Sock forehand is nearly impossible to copy, but I advise my rec players to apply the fundamentals correctly which all high level players have in common including Sock. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aH6ciXqIYsdoj5Y kzbin.info/www/bejne/gpOpdqCmm76AnqM

[@theideastring4706]

I wonder, is the first problem mainly because recreational players take the racket back late, whereas professionals are much earlier, so have time to do a full swing?

[@shanmugasundaram6625]

Wrist flick adds top spin..

[@KaptainOW]

Wrong.

[@Dubinski2382]

Shanmuga Sundaram What you are referring to is actually pronation of the forearm and not the wrist.