The Most Efficient Tau Units in 9th Edition 40k

Using a bit of mathhammer, I determine the most points efficient units in the Tau codex. Are AFP Crisis Suits OP!?
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[@Mithlinthar]

I was wondering if Coldstars are still just for "blowing stuff with 4 fusions". 3xAFP +AFP Supernova Launcher may be a quite interesting equipment for them, especially with ignoring LOS. AFP Coldstars can hide, be very mobile and decimate T3/T4 units. I quess. It would be cool to actually mathhammer this.

[@yoashbarak373]

I tend to find the AFP to be pointless. its great against horde targets, but that kind of unit is easily dealt with other sources, and the AFP does not do much against even marines, let alone "value targets"

[@mindspa24]

Would be super cool if you made this a read-only file on Google Drive so we can access it real time as you update it. Would be a godsend.

[@Rhugor]

That's a good idea. I think it was on the discord for patrons

[@Drogue84]

I've created one I'll put on Reddit when I get a chance.

[@JKoby123]

@@Drogue84 link us, Dad

[@rathstar]

Awesome work, thanks for compiling it and walking us through it. I like that you mentioned the other factors to consider, such as durability and range. This particularly affects breachers which are fragile and need to be at 5" range for your efficiency numbers. At look at mid range, say 15 to 18" would be interesting. Even with triple firing strike teams I think they struggle, however gun drones with a drone controller will pull ahead of the breachers easily. Range was only mentioned briefly and it can massively affect the analysis. If we're looking at breachers at 5" range we could include my hybridised weapon triple flamer crisis suits, which at 12" range will piss all over farsight AFP, however being able to fire out of line of sight is nice. I was using 40 fire warriors, 15 pathfinders and 10 kroot, so 65 infantry, but that has dropped to 30 in my early 9th edition lists. I don't think (but would be happily proved wrong) that the benefit of objective secured and infantry being needed for many secondaries outweighs the 28% increase in strike team costs (and don't get me started on the 38% and 50% increase in pathfinders and kroot).

[@InsectSpray]

I've been building my lists around the AIA Riptide since PA came out. That thing is a BEAST! first time I used it knocked out a baneblade in one turn of shooting. If it shoots the target dies. You don't have to nova the gun as it's overcharge is flat 6 shots. So it's always in a 3+invul and there is just no comparison to its gun. Str9 ap5 d3+3 damage. Godlike.

[@Willireallyam]

And when you tagget by a 10 man ork or nid squad, it won't kill the unit in CC and becomes usless for a turn

[@SerpensRgn]

@@Willireallyam and when you don't get tagged by a squad, it won't become useless for a turn. just don't get tagged

[@InsectSpray]

@@Willireallyam well actually the AIA is not a blast weapon. So it can shoot in combat

[@InsectSpray]

@@Willireallyam plus SMS that 8 shots at - 1. They charged. FTGG would have hurt them

[@yoashbarak373]

Yea, it AIA is basically a must-have in every tau list. even agressive FSE lists take him for the sheer anti-tank murder.

[@Willireallyam]

Custom sept. Advanced warheads, Gifted Pilots. Commander, 4x missile pods, relic to reroll 1s to hit and wound. 3x ion hammer heads, sms, 2x seekers. 3x skyrays, sms Just using this a a base to your army, all with additional ap to missiles, all ignoring move ad shoot, tanks rerolling 1s to wound, and they start at bs 3+. These are now, imo the best units for 9th Ed. They cap, they survive, they shoot amazingly, its for it all. To back them up, work on farsite fliers to get over that cover and bomb

[@cathode6252]

What relic let's you re-roll attacks of 1, and wounds of 1?

[@Willireallyam]

@@cathode6252 I apologise its not relic, its prototype weapon. Cross linked stailbiliser jets. From greater good book

[@cathode6252]

@@Willireallyam ahhhhhh, yeah that makes sense! Thanks👍

[@tallcorbs]

Thanks so much for this! I'm a new Tau player and can't seem to ever settle on a list that I'm happy with. It's also a said state that the strike teams are just not making the grade now. I'd love to see your sample 1500 points list vs an space mariners (for example) if you could ever make one? Just would like to see your thought process around list building in 9th.

[@SgtDeath1942]

great video. This is the kind of analysis that I need going into games. Often I pick the wrong target for my units and this clears up some misconceptions I have. Also love crisis suits so want to see them fielded

[@joshuareed7614]

Take a look at Supremacy armour. I ran it in my8thed list and now it is even cheaper. And drones can soak for it since it is a battle suit.

[@NinjaPokeProductions]

Beat me to it.

[@Markus-zb5zd]

Heck yeah, 2+ BS on this beast

[@joshuareed7614]

Markus I rand, and still run almost nothing but drones with this guy. Teaches knight players a thing a 2 LoL

[@Markus-zb5zd]

@@joshuareed7614 I run him with shadowsun, a Ghostkeel with the scrambler, a few XV25 and sniper drones + marksmen. Super annoying for the enemy. Everything is either the backline ta'unar that is not going for any objective, a screening keel or something else with a - to hit.

[@joshuareed7614]

@@Markus-zb5zd I run almost nothing but gun drones, 35 in seven 5 man squads, along with shadowsun and 1 BS commander. 2 repair drones, some markerlight drones and 5 shield drones. with the points drop I am going to add a couple of small things.

[@taschenknecht2400]

First off, thanks for the comparison. Appreciate all the work you put into this :) I would be interested in a comparison between the Relic Ion Riptide vs the Relic Rail Rifle Broadside. The Ion gun has better damage (3+d3 vs d6 min 3), but Broadsides bring more SMS in a squad of 3 for similar points. Also, what about Veteran crisis with Missilepods? Compared to Broadsides, you lose all the SMS, but you get a bit more mobility and better BS. Also curious on 3 MPs vs 2 + ATS. I tried the Relic Ion Riptide a couple of times in 8th and your numbers prove my feelings right. S9 and min 4 damage are really great ^^

[@zera9579]

With the shield drone price increase I think broadsides might actually be a great shout, tides are not going to be anywhere near as durable anymore and if you give the broadsides shield gen instead of ATS (unless I'm wrong they're not infantry so don't get the -1 to hit anymore?) then they should be great!

[@yoashbarak373]

MP crisis are not even competing in the "efficient killing" department. a non-overcharged CiB has the same profile with 50% more shots. You take them because two of such suits costs like one HYMP+SMS broadside. so same number of missile shots, but no SMS and lower durability. Unless you Vet them, they have no real value, and honestly I ain't sure they do even if do you vet them. (didn't run the numbers, but I can tell its far behind CiB suits)

[@rathstar]

@@yoashbarak373 Non overcharged cib only does 1 wound, plus your analysis of ignores the double range of the missile pod. Missile pod crisis suits can start on the board, while the cib crisis suits will likely be deepstriking so only firing turn 2 at the earliest. Crisis suits can shoot at all if tagged in combat, so the extra range on the missile pods allows them to operate at safer distances. The short range on the cib means it sometimes has to fire at what's in range not what you ideally want to fire at, less of an issue with the double range on the missile pod. While cib armed crisis suits are still good, writing off missile pod ones is a bit premature. Personally I don't use either load out as I don't play farsight, but having used missile crisis suits in previous editions I know they have their place.

[@Drogue84]

For what they're trying to do Magna Rail Broadsides and AIA Riptides are very similar on a wounds-per-point basis. The relic riptide is slightly better against tanks, the broadsides slightly better vs. invulns. The biggest difference in damage is that the broadsides do ~50-80% more to troops. However, the riptide is far more durable, with the 3+ invuln, and more mobile. An interesting comparison though. I can see the broadsides doing well if using a custom sept with hardened warheads, perhaps 3 of those to complement 3 or 6 HYMP ones. Missile pod crisis suits do roughly 2/3 the wounds per point compared to CIB crisis (just over 2/3 against everything anything except T4 & T8, about 1/2 vs. T4&8) for which you get extra range and don't have to overcharge. Not worth it for FSE in my view as you'll want to be inside 12" anyway for the markerlight. Where this becomes somewhat interesting is 3MP crisis suits with the hardened warheads sept tenet, but even then your paying 4 points and 1 strength for the range and not needing to overcharge. But even then HYMP broadsides do ~40-50% more damage per point vs. troops and ~30-35% vs. most other units. Crisis are more mobile, but with broadsides able to move and shoot I don't think the difference is worth it. In my view, for your damage dealers, if you're running hardened warheads you want HYMP broadsides and/or riptides, if you're running FSE you want crisis with CIBs (I prefer 2CIB+ATS personally) and perhaps 1 or 2 with fusion, and if you're running anything else you want riptides. With all of these you want lots of gun drones to clear out 1W troops, plus maybe with a 3-suit squad of burst cannon or flamer crisis to help with this and overwatch.

[@mathewhitchiner7408]

Always enjoy a bit of mathhammer - even without considering other utilities, damage math does help us cement the best targets for our favorite space goat fish units. Some are really intuitive, like the Fusion Blasters on suits to pick off elites and medium vehicles. Others are just completely surprising.

[@brunoferrid]

I've been having a great time playing with AFP Crisis as a back liner threat! Usually players tend to let low resilient units or horde holding the objectives in its deploy zone. What I'm doing is deep striking those crisis behind an obscure terrain and start popping hits without LOS, not only this make my opponent lose objectives, it make it lose time and turns trying to hunt those crises who are very resilient with the relic for canceling Ap-1 and -2 and for last I'm choosing Linebreaker secondaries so those Crisis tend to survive 3-4 turns earning me 12-15 points.

[@Gabriel-nr8kd]

Ok i just started making my 9th edition tau list this video is a gift xd.

[@drewethan666]

I'm trying to do the same but my battle scribe refuses to update to 9th ed points!

[@Gabriel-nr8kd]

@@drewethan666 Did you download a new version of BattleScribe?

[@drewethan666]

@@Gabriel-nr8kd all sorted! =-)

[@smokusmoczynski1999]

Great video! I wish i could know: 1. Tiger shark efficiency including modulated weaponary stratagem (as it's the only reason to run him, and it pomp's out his dmg output by a lot) 2.Also When it comes to veteran crisis suits, any combination of double weapon and drone controler should be really good as it offers effectively 2+ hit rolls, rerolling one's from whatever (single markerlight (achivable out of stratagem) farsight enclave ability or any other reason. 3.One thing im really curious as well is regular crisis suits equipped with 3x flamers and upgraded to a strenght 5 at 6" rerolling 1ns to wound at 6" from enclave aswell. They seem pretty cheap for the avarage amount of dmg they can do. Idk if you have the option to include reroll's into the statistics though?

[@Tiegonnick]

Awsome video as always. Did you include three Broadsides with the relic Magna Rail Rifles? That would have a weapon profile fairly similar to the Relic Riptide for as cheap as 258 points. I bet both the relic Riptide and relic Broadside would be a nice combo against big targets.

[@sludgedisciple]

I can say my unit of 3 Magna Rail Rifle broadsides has been brutal for my enemies in 8th, Curious to see how they fare in 9th.

[@brennefleisch]

Good content. 20 min video, 6 ad breaks. KZbin is getting far more invasive than cable commercials.

[@jacktheripper6928]

We are screwed. Tau at this point needs pretty much a whole re-work. I'm so sick of Triptides and mass drones to be compeditive I could puke. GW needs to re-think our boys.

[@zera9579]

If it makes you feel better I don't think triptide will be competitive this edition either xD

[@jacktheripper6928]

Zera No it don’t and that’s exactly my point. We’ve ONLY had that list to be competitive fir what 3 editions? I’m sick of it and I’d guess most Tau players are too. GW needs to re-write our codex more according to our fluff. Fast, maneuverable, hit and run tactics.

[@adriangoodman8901]

So I just bought my first ever pack of Warhammer stuff, got the paint and rulebook and it's the tau start collecting. All I have heard is tau are weak, could you elaborate on this?

[@giancarloavancini]

great content as usual... One thing I think you should try as seems not correct is the Tiger Shark with ION cannon, CIB, 2 MP and 2 Skyspear ALL Overcharge. And also using it with the strat for 1 CP to maximize the gun... The difference in my opinion should be huge! With so many commando points I think this unit should be the most efficient in our arsenal... 12 x S8 -2 & 3D / 12 x S6 -2 & 2D / 6 x S8 -1 D3 / 4 x S6 -1 D3 all hitting with BS2!!!!

[@milesrodger3724]

What a delightful morning surprise! Thank you!

[@stephenerickson6223]

I run my broadsides with missiles with custom Sept hardened warheads and the one do they can move and shoot. I can get -4 AP on high yield and -3 on sms if everything is done right. Seems to work well in a lot of different unit types.

[@dRatteb]

i think nine of those will be the next Dominat list for tau. (3 with the relic Railguns) Do you take MP-Drohnes and do they perform well for you? I still have mixed feelings about them.

[@justasheep4427]

I think you don't need the move & shoot ability, now only infantry get the -1 to hit when they move.

[@stephenerickson6223]

@@dRatteb my list right now has 2 always with drones and ats. But for 9th I'm thinking of 3 with 2 riptides. I already play aggressively so movement is why I dont take a heap of broadsides. Regardless they work well for the jobs I use them for.

[@stephenerickson6223]

@@justasheep4427 your right 9th it wont matter so tau sept and position for overwatch. -4ap overwatch keeps dreads at bay.

[@dRatteb]

@@stephenerickson6223 You wont get Tau sept when you use the custom one.

[@warrenhall5686]

Thank you so much. I was trying to figure out what to do with eventually building a T'au army.

[@juliankim519]

pathfinders and darkstrider, since the lost of the fly keyword, darkstrider is a replacement for that, with a pathfinder squad you can keep running and shooting and play tau how they used to be with played, with the exception that they are infantry instead of drones, and battlesuits

[@danielbordier7282]

So for a well rounded list (not a very specialised list) : Riptides (HBC/relic depending on the situation), gun drones and breachers.

[@dooper511]

I still bring the strike team over breachers. Extra range seems like it's nice in 9th since you're hitting the whole board with strike teams. I'm pretty new to 40k, so I'm definitely willing to be wrong here. Definitely bring the triptides if you're trying to crush people, though.

[@Mithlinthar]

Oh. Something I was waiting for.

[@jakobpope]

I’d like to see the efficiency changes with some marker light effects included.

[@frogofbrass382]

I would like to see the Taunar on the list. Richard Siegler dominated with it in a recent battle report on the Art of War 40K channel.

[@zera9579]

Great video as always dude. Great to see breachers and gun drones so high up (that was my gut feeling so always nice lol). Would love to know the difference between the vet and non vet crisis and the railgun tigershark actually. Any way/chance of putting that spreadsheet online somehow? Cheers

[@zera9579]

So managed to run the numbers for all the tigershark variants and vets vs non vets. The vet strat is worth consistantly between 1-1.6 more damage per model which is roughly 8 - 15 points less per wound caused so definitely worth it. The none AX-01 tigershark is surprisingly good , with the swiftstrike burst cannon it actually beat the ppw of the crisis and even more surprisingly with the railgun it trounced the Riptide.... Might need to rerun that cause it just doesn't feel right xD

[@wrynil]

Will veteran crisis benefit from 5 markerlights? Or will they still be 3+ BS as it is capped at 1+ to hit?

[@Tryptic214]

As somebody who creates massive numbers of Excel documents at work, I suggest you change your conditional formatting to work by column. This way the best weapon for each target will be green. Also, with the potential Necron threat on the horizon, a T4 with 4+ save field would be useful. Also, I would really appreciate seeing Magna Rail Rifles (in a unit of 3 with C&C Node, perhaps out of range of its secondaries)

[@InvasiveWargaming]

True, but then you couldn’t easily compare efficiency across targets. It’s helpful to know wheee we are most and least efficient

[@Neffariousnyc]

How would you run Veteran Cadre? Obviously it has to be Farsight Enclaves, but what would a list look like?

[@idbuyanewbmx]

This is fantastic! I need to make one for my Necrons

[@jjaarr3208]

I have run a relic Riptide with relic magna gun broadsides with a standard Ion Riptide against a GSC gun line with 4 leman Russ and 3 artillery tanks and he had no armor left at the end of the game. Can't wait to run them against the feared space marine centurions, whom they can out range, on a larger style board of course.

[@Sollapoke]

1 hour ago, this means it’s newwwwww! Can’t wait to see the video, keep up the good content we love it

[@TougherLoki]

Nice analysis! I love using spreadsheet to get a good balance. Does your spreadsheet have the ability to take ML into account? Also, kauyon has an impact on efficiency. Units that rely on volume of fire are impacted the most by taking these into account. (Yes, both are situational, but I can help understand when it's best to lock down a single target or spread the shooty-shooty love around the board) I have a far less comprehensive spreadsheet, but does allow to adjust for ML effects (at 1ML and 5ML) and kauyon. Happy to share if you happen to see this comment and are interested.

[@simonmasla]

This is the video I needed! Would be interesting to how we talk about the utility, opsec, and staying power in relation to clearing power.

[@academic0chris]

Yeah, that might be a fun companion video to see the staying power of obsec units against things like lasgun fire, rapid fire bolter, meltas, etc. And you can then overlap the two sheets with different complementary colors (maybe red and blue) and the purple band is the most efficient choice.

[@jackhaehl2033]

Is flamer crisis not on the list? I've recently become interested in the build as they don't need to become veterans and the 12" buff to flamers makes them much more useful. With the vectored thrusters relic a hit and run 9d6 of flamer squad of crisis suits sounds very threatening.

[@InvasiveWargaming]

Check out part 2

[@harrysmith1700]

Yes, the video I've been waiting for!

[@shigeolincolntaco]

I'm bringing a Tidewall to the table top watch out

[@giancarloavancini]

and broadside with Magna Rifle also please.... And I wonder if the R'yahra point is always with the Nova charged weapons.. 3 x D6 autohits should be quite high vs T4-T5 and even T6....

[@hobbsythe2nd568]

Great vid, thanks very much. How do non-vet crisis do vs the vets? And how about strike teams at half range with and without the cadre vs gun drones?

[@SogScaryman]

I don't see hazard suits on your list, can you add them? I am very curious how they compare.

[@dRatteb]

Are XV8 Vertans with Plasma Rifles missing? Also Fire Worriors are more efficent than Breachers when you add in Volly Fire.

[@cavattack1]

Is that Excel file shareable? I was also curious if that file takes into account rules or additional scenarios, such as FSE getting reroll ones within 12 inches. Is it something that can be updated to include additional load outs, like crisis suits with plasma or upgunned burst cannons?

[@Drogue84]

Love the video, but sadly some of the numbers are wrong. For example: 2CIB+ATS vet crisis suits firing at a T3, 5+, 1W target take 6 shots, expecting to hit 4 and wound 3.33, with no saving throw. Dividing by 71 points gives 0.0469 wounds per point, not the 0.0352 your spreadsheet gives. Your 3CIB vet crisis suit figure is correct though. This makes a big difference as 2CIB+ATS crisis suits generally outperform the 3CIB option on a wounds per point basis, except minorly against GEQ. Just realised, your figures for some of the crisis suits are for BS4+, without the veteran cadre.

[@InvasiveWargaming]

Thanks, I’ll check the numbers

[@InvasiveWargaming]

Yep, forgot to change the bs on that suit, but other vet suits are correct

[@Drogue84]

@@InvasiveWargaming Just to add, your riptide numbers are also off - I think your numbers are correct if you assume the main gun auto hits. For example take the HBC SMS ATS riptide vs. an intercessor, where you have it as the #1 most efficient: the HBC makes 18 shots with Novacharge, hitting 9 times (4s), wounding 6 (3s), 4 (5s) failing their save, meaning it does 8 expected damage. The SMS adds another 1.33 expected damage, for a total of 9.33. Divided by the 305 cost gives 0.0306 Exp. D per point, not the 0.566 you have, putting it mid table for efficiency. The relic AIA SMS ATS seems even more off, and isn't fully explained by the above so I can't work out exactly why we have different figures. For example vs a standard T8 S3+ 12W tank I calculate the main gun doing 10 expected wounds, the SMS adding 0.66, making it 0.0333 expected damage per point, way off the 0.0772 you have. Still around the best performer, but handily beaten by fusion commanders and crisis suits, and narrowly by CIB-armed veterans, rather than being the standout #1. I may have missed something here, though I can't think what I could have that would explain the discrepancy. Putting these together give a really different picture of what's efficient though. Veteran crisis suits become distinctly more efficient in terms of damage than riptides, winning virtually every category (AFP/burst/flame vs. 1W, CIB vs. 2-3W and 4+W with invulns, fusion vs. 4+W without invulns), which compensates for their lower durability and CP cost.

[@Drogue84]

I'm happy to swap spreadsheets if you'd like to see my working. I've made minor differences in assumptions in a couple of places (e.g. D3 wound vs. 2W: while the first wounding hit does an expected 1.67 wounds subsequent ones need to take previous hits into account, meaning a crisis team with CIBs ends up doing ~1.52 E(W) per wounding hit).

[@shoePatty]

Can you check (3x and 2x+ATS) flamer crisis suits? With Hybridized Weaponry they can deep strike in range now and I'm really curious how they do against different profiles.

[@wrynil]

The horror when I had 13 flamers being charged by plaugemarines, scored only 28 hits.. - he saved them all. What a shitty friday that was.

[@solventstudios]

What is a Veteren Crisis suit? I Know what standard XV8 Crisis Battlesuits are.. but I dont know what a Veteren one is? Is it just a Shas'vre?

[@InvasiveWargaming]

Veteran cadre stratagem

[@ostrimous]

@@InvasiveWargaming Thanks I was wondering this myself. I looked and couldn't find the stratagem and then found in 'The Greater Good,' only to find it is Farsight Enclaves specific. Interesting. I have 3 unbuilt Crisis battlesuits. Looks like magnets, velcro or sticky tack to swap weapons. As we don't typically have the weapons we want in the quantity we want, it looks like a third party website to hook that up. Suggestions?

[@omegavulture8379]

Riptide is over-tuned, water is wet...news at eleven

[@ajack22100]

Noticed that regular burst cannons in a custom sept with Upgunned wasn't on the list. Curious if this gets competitive against the riptide against marines on certain units.

[@Yshelomov]

I think that in the end, it's hard to outweigh the benefit of +3 to hit Crisis that FSE gets... but I'd be happy to be proven wrong!

[@Drogue84]

Upgunned burst cannon crisis suits are really good. Going from AP 0 to 1 is far more important than 1 to 2, so you tend to take 2BC+ATS on standard crisis and 3BC on upgunned ones, meaning upgunned effectively lets you run 3BC+ATS. An extra burst cannon is 50% more shots and 50% more expected wounds, compared to the 26.7% more you get from the better BS of veteran cadre. Interestingly, the gatling burst cannon relic and veteran cadre are identical on burst cannon crisis suits, as both give you an extra hit 1/6 of the time. If you take the view that upgunned works on the gatling relic (the rules aren't clear and the FAQ didn't help) you get similar performance to gun drones with a drone controller (the best in the faction against 1W infantry) - slightly better vs. marines and 3+ saves, slightly worse vs. guard and 5+ - without the limitation of having to shoot the nearest target. Having said that, crisis suits with 3 flamers and hybrid weaponry perform even better against 1W infantry, not to mention being utterly insane in overwatch.

[@ajack22100]

@@Drogue84 personally I like running stealth suites with Upgunned. They also have a get out of jail free card with Wall of Mirrors that crisis teams lack provided there's a burst-keel in support.

[@Drogue84]

@@ajack22100 I run stealth teams in almost everything, as it's fantastic screening for Coldstars, great for performing secondary actions in 9th (infantry keyword), and so durable. Though the lack of firepower compared to burst crisis is very noticeable.

[@Bl4ckC00k1e]

Can you share the Excell? Thanks for that work

[@ajaxthepibble5453]

Any chance to get a pdf of this?

[@sarico7827]

atm I like taking some stealth suits with a ghostkeel.

[@jakrapongpattamasaevi6084]

Very nice extreme value add content. Was rail xv88 part of this analysis?

[@astolbro7183]

Did air bursting frag launchers change or can someone explain to me why they are good I thought they sucked?

[@Sykdude]

It's awesome to see all this raw data. But to really be honest, I'm not sure how to build a list using it.

[@InvasiveWargaming]

I’ll do a vid on it :) this is just one piece of the puzzle

[@russellwilliams9437]

what the hell is a vetran crisis suite team i cant find them anywear in the codex ? is it a stratagem of some kind ?

[@1R0QU012]

That’s cool and all, but I get to take the models I want. Do like the data aspects of this though. As more of a hobbyist than a gamer, I can appreciate working in excel to find efficiency.

[@stein1919]

run what's fun

[@johnadam4117]

You should of included the Supremacy Armou tu'unar and its load outs... its under 880 points for 1 fully loaded now.

[@fightindice6227]

He should not waste time because it will be changed. I love my super Tuna BUT at that point cost it is broken.

[@fightindice6227]

Would love to see a Tau Naval review like this. Sun Shark Bombers, Tiger Shark (in-depth), Remora, etc.

[@harrysmith1700]

@@fightindice6227 Yes, the current point cost looks like an error. Looks like they forgot to transfer the weapons costs to the body.

[@johnadam4117]

@@fightindice6227 i would also like to see the naval. Have you seen the load out on the tuna? 4 sms, 4 bc, min of 12 that are ap -4 damage d6 shots with its arms, 2d6 shots that are ap -3 damage 3 (this also is double damage against other titanic models). Its worth putting out there since it also can deal a decent amount of damage in melee combat. It will be in my list for 9th.

[@NinjaPokeProductions]

@@harrysmith1700 It's no error. Brian - one of the members of the Tabletop Titans channel - has said he has it on very good authority that it is not an error as he had the same thoughts and spoke to one of his contacts in GW for confirmation. This could be because they are removing the Battlesuit keyword so it can no longer tank a volcano lance with a shield drone despite being twice the size of a Stormsurge.

[@iragfc600]

idk if I missed it but what about (magna) rail rifle broadsides?

[@drewethan666]

Hey Mike. So I'm still unsure of the exact points changes to the T'au codex for 9th. I'm trying to work on new Army lists but as battle scribe still hasn't updated its proving rather troublesome. Any websites or pages where I can get this information would be very helpful. Cheers

[@InvasiveWargaming]

Battle scribe is updated, make sure you refresh your data

[@drewethan666]

@@InvasiveWargaming okay I've tried to update the data but still doesn't look like the points have changed. I'll keep trying and restart my phone too. Thanks for the reply!

[@drewethan666]

@@InvasiveWargaming i have version 2.03.25 for battle scribe and have updated the data as requested. But this still has not changed any of the points values or allowed me to build a new list with a 9th edition update. How annoying lol

[@InvasiveWargaming]

Did you try making a new roster and selecting 9e instead of 8e? I don’t think it updates points on existing rosters cause it’s technically a new system

[@drewethan666]

@@InvasiveWargaming all sorted now! Took abit of figuring out but I managed to get it done. Thanks for the support Mike.

[@deang8017]

What's the math on Magna Rail Rifle Broadsides? I would assume they are about the same efficiency as the relic Riptide.

[@justinvanvolkenburg5298]

I am curious about Burst Cannon and mixed weapon suits.

[@nfortin24]

Brand new to the game.. just picked up the start collecting for tau... whats the difference with "veteran" crisis suits?

[@InvasiveWargaming]

Veteran cadre stratagem

[@nfortin24]

@@InvasiveWargaming oh, I saw that. Okay, I thought it was something else I missed. Those are only farsight though correct?

[@robotdude8749]

Crisis adverted Pun intended

[@J.Panxer]

XV9s with fusion are more points efficient than vet xv8's w stabilization (even after the forgeworld knee cappening). 4 words. Command and control node. I still like the thought of xv8's with fusion and reactive countermeasures, but 8, 18" fusion shots vs 18 12" fusion shots with re-rolls and ccn will even defeat necron vehicles with unvul saves and 4+ wound abilities.

[@neovo903]

I'm wondering where you are getting the Large Blast keyword from for the afp? Is it the 11 models or more rule for the auto 6 shots?

[@neovo903]

Also, check out this, I found that if you were going to use a relic on a Crisis suit unit, it's better to do Crosslinked Stabiliser Jets as opposed to Gatling Burst Cannon drive.google.com/file/d/1k-zmlEwYh14mA1jB_TlmL5i1TYteZQlv/view?usp=sharing

[@InvasiveWargaming]

Correct

[@sidrotv4699]

Were you gonna share the sheet?

[@thesebiforce3133]

Honestly I'd like a cool T'au vs Space Marine starter set for the game. Like how we've always had space meen and ork boiz sets for so long and now necrons and spac meenz. I think I should make a pdf for something like this for people getting into playing the game instead of just building t'au models like I did. lowkey thinking of it p hard lmao. Just need more free time is all

[@qballa2787]

I feel like it’s more likely we might end up fighting Chaos. That death guard story was really good

[@thesebiforce3133]

@@qballa2787 Yeah Tau vs Chaos would be great. Honestly wouldn't mind taking the opportunity to spotlight Slaanesh. -- Slaanesh doesn't even have a listed army on GWS's site lol. I really do hope Slaanesh gets full on support, like a codex, the other gods have their own. I could see FSE fighting Slaanesh after the whole deathguard encounter, and then some black legion possibly. Just sucks that the current noise marine minnies are conversion kits that are several years behind everyone else. Although the daemons look great. Just hope my girlfriend can build her slaanesh as a full on army instead of it being just daemons and bits from other armies.

[@blindsamhare5954]

Do you think the smart missile system is really good because of the way terrain works now

[@ForTehNguyen]

I would think so, now that its easier to hide in ruins. Any indirect fire weapon basically got a buff whereas its harder to target around terrain in 9E

[@Leonix13]

Interesting list... The numbers are stats vs single models, right?

[@InvasiveWargaming]

Yes

[@Leonix13]

Interesting... will be curious to see how Blast fairs vs units of 6-10 which should be fairly common. Also I didn't see Kroot Hounds or Krootox (Kroot Gun & Melee+Rage Strat).

[@hoodlumX25]

Can you do the same sort of list with Tau HQs?

[@Varmint111]

Won't we get a new codex updated for ninth?

[@Mithlinthar]

We will. But not soon. SM and Necrons will be out in October, so our codex probably will be out in 2021

[@gerritvandenbosch4681]

Points efficiency isn't always the best metric. Effective fire on point is also a consideration.

[@daz4377]

Curious about storm surge

[@pierrepoulin9608]

What is a veteran crisis suit???

[@slemph2214]

i always thought crisis suits with 2 CIB and ATS are better than 3 CIBs :c

[@Clintv42]

4:45, 7:32 were the first two adds. I’m not done watching yet and the last video of yours I watched had 15 adds. I’m trying to watch your videos because you got great stuff to day but if you can scaling those adds back is important.

[@InvasiveWargaming]

Crazy. I didn’t put those in. Looks like YT changed default settings to put in mid-rolls. Will address this.

[@МятыйКот]

Guys, this is very sad .. I tried kill team for Tau six months ago. I liked it and I decided to collect an army of the Great Good. And almost immediately, the 9th edition comes to Warhammer. And your only favorite faction ends up in complete shit. And now I am even afraid to buy something and build a roster, because it is not known what will be in the new code and my roster may be absolutely unplayable. The thing is that the tau were originally made such that they drove them to a dead end .. You cannot fight, but you shoot. if you did not manage to shoot the enemy on the way to you, you are dead. Hit or miss. Black or white. Only two options. And to run to you with such shooting, ballistics skill, with such a miserable overwatch will not be difficult for any army in general. What can fix this situation? 1) Increase the ballistic skill to 3+ It would seem that this would devalue the markerlights. But no. Just fix the marker table. For example: 1 marker-reroll 1to hit; 2 marker !!!! - overwatch 5+ or 4+; 3 markers - no cover benefits; and marker 4 is about missiles, and marker 5 is ATTENTION !! Not +1 that hit, but ignoring all buffs of the enemy army for a hit penalty. Thus, you will shoot according to the standard ballistic skill 3+. In my opinion, not bad and not an imbalance. 2) Dealing damage. I think, taking into account the latest trends, we need to make some guns more armor-piercing and with a damage of 2. Here we need to think. For example, the pulse of a rifle or burst of a gun, change the stats by 5; -1; 2. It is also possible to revise some of the big guns of battle suits so that they can adequately respond to toughness 8, which is now so much (for vehicles of spacemarines for example). 3) Add a stratagem that would allow shooting at the FIGHTING PHASE from all available weapons, as if they were firing at an ultra-short distance. 4) And the last. To prevent fire warriors from being such cannon fodder, you need to increase their vitality. You can leave them their stamina and the number of wounds, but increase the save to 3+. And you can give a stratagem on fnp, which would be very useful for controlling points. That's probably all. And believe me, compared to those changes and bonuses of the enemy armies, all this would not be imbalanced. This would allow this army to play with dignity and give a competitive rebuff to the enemy.

[@DareToWonder]

best way to kill mortarion?

[@NightRazor]

Is the a way to get this file?

[@InvasiveWargaming]

You don’t want to know.

[@benzaman11]

isnt the rvarna not blast

[@mann0311]

This is 8th ed points right?

[@InvasiveWargaming]

9e

[@mann0311]

@@InvasiveWargaming ah I see good stuff!

[@8xon8]

Dunno really about the hype for crisis suits.... Yes they're points efficient but they die so easily and to make them any use at all you have to play farsight and use the veteran cadre strat and if you didn't want them to die you're gonna have to use more cp (5+++ fnp strat) But too cp hungry for a decent unit that dies so easily for my taste

[@kylearchbold5189]

Everything is better in Excel

[@harrysmith1700]

Wait, you did all those entries MANUALLY?!😲

[@Sollapoke]

Ik it’s crazy!!

[@konewhatsthenamespolicy6308]

At this point I might as well turn my devil fish into a hammerhead. Seems useless otherwise

[@cathode6252]

It's the only troop transport though. I am not criticizing you, but could you elaborate on this statement?

[@konewhatsthenamespolicy6308]

CATHODE mainly it doesn’t seem to have the durability to protect troops or the speed to be an efficient hit and run troop deployment strategy, especially with the new board sizes and vehicle rules. Essentially my troops could get to where I need them almost as fast and likely more safely than risking them dying in the explosion of the devil fish. Converting it into a second hammerhead seems like a better choice and saves me money. Plus I can make one a longstrike

[@cathode6252]

@@konewhatsthenamespolicy6308 do you think it might be better suited in Combat Patrol? I haven't experimented at all.

[@ninja5879]

You should post this over on r/Warhammercompetitive on reddit.

[@DareToWonder]

15 time watching this video

[@JohnDoe-id8si]

You trying to fund a different army? So many ads!

[@JohnSmith-fu2kz]

You lost me