Investigation: GamersNexus Files New Lawsuit Against PayPal & Honey

[@GamersNexus]

Grab our Honey Pot T-Shirt and Foil Trading Card to support us: store.gamersnexus.net/products/honey-pot-foil-tshirt-100pct-cotton-limited Find CPM Legal's PayPal & Honey class action lawsuit page here: www.cpmlegal.com/cases-CPM-Investigating-PayPals-Honey-Browser-Extension-for-Possibly-Stealing-Referral-Fees Watch MegaLag's original Honey report here for further context: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJSXqn9pjrmqjc0 Watch Wendell at Level1 Techs: kzbin.info Watch the Legal Eagle video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/anmXpIaZeKdkmbs

[@quantum5661]

i heard about this the other day, good luck team

[@DVDfeverGames]

Another starry, starry night for Vincent! Thanks, Steve! 😁

[@dontsupportrats4089]

What about PIE??? SAME DEVELOPERS.

[@thedivide9559]

You won't believe it but some smooth brain actually tried to justify what paypal is doing and I can only let you guess what he said.

[@olivergottkehaskamp3369]

I was about to ask where's my limited foil shirt for the occasion :P Keep it up!

[@complete-mayhem-x64]

I'm a very small time creator, but I've been an amazon affiliate for many years. I've often wondered why some people told me they used my affiliate link and made a purchase but I never got any kick back from that purchase. Honey could definitely have been the culprit.

[@GamersNexus]

It's great to hear from smaller creators too on how affiliate impacts them. I remember what it was like to be almost fully reliant on it!

[@nintendude794]

Man that sucks.

[@802Garage]

Similar story here. I have used affiliate links for many years now, and a few years ago, my revenue seemed to go down without explanation even though some of my videos which generated the most clicks were getting more views than ever. The revenue didn't drop suddenly, more so over time , but even with new videos doing well that have affiliate links, I didn't really see a rise like I used to. I'm not saying there is a causation, but it feels like a correlation. I am also a long-time user of Honey and I noticed a few years ago it seemed dramatically worse at actually finding me any deals or coupons and I would usually have to go do it manually or use another extension. I have of course uninstalled Honey recently.

[@tyler785]

Same here. I have another channel that is affiliated with Amazon but now I wonder what could have been...

[@jackthatmonkey8994]

New best practice for self-promotion now includes "please do not use honey if you want to use my affiliate links"

[@jloiben12]

When Honey is so stupid it has both Legal Eagle and GamersNexus coming after it…

[@spik330]

I think there are about 6 lawsuit's against Honey asking for class action status, though its not as great as you think it is. Currently its the race to see who gets the class action status as it they get to take control and get the winnings. Ie, though they all probably mean well, its all a massive cash grab.

[@Saintedlight]

You know they fucked up.

[@tengkualiff]

cant wait to see them get screwed

[@BleedForTheWorld]

It's insane how much greed is rewarded under capitalism

[@brandonw1604]

@@BleedForTheWorld Greed is rewarded in all systems.

[@fretbuzz_]

The real problem here is that if you shop lift a $15 item at cvs you go to jail. If PayPal steals $15 a million times they get a fine. This kind of crap will never stop until everyone involved goes to jail. They should each get a certain amount of prison time for each transaction. If that's longer than the rest of their life so be it.

[@DSP_Visuals]

Spot on

[@BrianWelch-vc7xy]

Companies exist purely for this reason. If the company makes money, the people running the company reap the profit. If the company goes under or is found to be committing fraudulent acts, the company is dissolved and the people running it just move on to a new company to repeat the process.

[@digitalbrinjen3245]

Exactly. Fines are now just the cost of doing business for these large corporations. Time the people making these decisions faced prison just like the rest of us.

[@billshull9468]

They had to of known via Due Dilegence when PayPal bought Honey. Now PIE is doing the same crap.

[@Gojoe107]

Unless.... Your in California. 😂

[@HelmutGaming]

The context of the LTT comment was lost, possibly intentionally. It referred to a time when the impact on consumers was unknown, focusing instead on creators, which had already been reported. It seemed out of place in the video, this leaves me confused about why it was mentioned and your true intentions.

[@nonyabisness6306]

that doesn't substantially change anything.

[@HelmutGaming]

​@@nonyabisness6306It’s called a "conflict of interest."

[@DUMBCAT86]

@@nonyabisness6306 Yes, it does. Without the knowledge of Honey screwing over the consumer, LTT is to assume it's benefitting the consumer with every single purchase they make online, not just those clicking affiliate links. Asking the consumer to side with him and the affiliate marketers (many of whom are already extremely dubious in their practice) would be asking the consumer to side against their best interests and punish Honey which is directly supporting their purchase with a coupon, thus arguably deserving of the commission.

[@JoRoBoYo]

He trying to be a hero by putting down other creator. It is not even him who did the original expose. Shameless Steve

[@danieltoth9742]

@@nonyabisness6306 It actually changes a lot. Steve basically called Linus' take anti-consumer, and the clip shown here as well as Steve's own words heavily imply that Linus had known everything about what Honey does for years, and chose to hide it to protect himself while letting the consumers burn on purpose... Except if you look up the Jan 3 WAN show the clip was taken from (which Gamers Nexus unfortunately didn't provide a link to for easy fact-checking, but it starts at roughly 5;30 in that video), and you watch a mere 15 seconds further than what's shown here, you will hear Linus saying he only knew it harmed creators, but thought that it still genuinely helped consumers get better deals, so he chose not to deal with that conflict of interest between himself and his viewers. The fact that Honey actually screws both creators _and_ customers was only revealed recently. Whether Linus made the best choice or not is debatable, but Steve here made it look a lot more sinister than it actually was. Though I think Linus should've said something to stand up for smaller creators even at risk of taking a little flak, he _did not_ knowingly let customers burn. Steve has done good coverage of LMG's errors in the past, but this was not it.

[@MrCodyminner]

Hearing Wendell talk about the Fake traffic that websites must be showing has made me think this is much deeper than we all realize.

[@Jan12700]

It is, Megaleg did tease this in his Video and that it only was part one of three

[@justindake]

Having worked in ad ops, having seen all the bot farms running traffic on fake sites just to sell ad slots, and having seen how many middlemen were fine with taking their 30% cut and passing responsibility onto the next person, I’m sure it’s much deeper than stealing affiliate money.

[@name_unpickable]

haven't got to that point in the vid so don't know what the tie in is, but yeah click and impression fraud are huge in the online advertising industry. There are firms that actually work with advertisers to help them evaluate how effective their campaigns really are and whether or not the sites showing their ads were trying to rip them off.

[@Abadeez]

It's nothing new. This has been the practice since ecommerce has existed. Last-click attribution is not cookie stuffing. Cookie stuffing is not crazy uncommon but it is illegal and is considered fraud. That's not what Honey has done, as far as we know, unless someone has evidence no one else has seen Honey is perfectly within their rights to do what they did. You might not like it, but last click is the standard and is not illegal. Cookie stuffing is, but again last click is not cookie stuffing.

[@robainscough]

Yes it is, welcome to the world of legal scamming … Trump the ring leader and SCOTUS allowing it all to happen so the rich get richer.

[@gijora]

"I've been cranking my personal hours up to 100+ a week" Steve, we love you, GN, and everything y'all do, dont burn yourself out!

[@Th3Fly1ngCow]

Steve is built different

[@LostLargeCats]

Everyone needs good rest too keep themselves sharp and mentally healthy.

[@Duplicitousthoughtformentity]

Dw Steve’s just overclocking, he can handle it.

[@djstevie69]

Steve's can be overclocked as long as the psu and snacks are high quality.​@@Duplicitousthoughtformentity

[@T3hderk87]

Thanks Steve!

[@SamRocher]

As someone who had PayPal lock their account and then steal all their money, good on you!

[@joes.3083]

Paypal screwed me too. Fuk 'em

[@Chiny_w_Pigulce]

Same, PayPal is the worst

[@Ajee02]

PayPal once locked my account too, thankfully I spammed their Twitter support until they let me make a new account and transferred all the money. Fuck Honey tho

[@grandcalifornia8410]

Hold on, the money is yours unless dispute is won in the favour of the other party. PayPal cannot take your money, that’s illegal.

[@avonire]

Depending on what you do, your entire financial situation can depend on PayPal. I hate how easily they can just erase you, and for no real reason

[@joshsmithkelowna]

You guys are awesome!!! Thank you for looking out for us.

[@Shiny_Dragonite]

For some of the cynics: when Ford settled the PowerShift class action, I only got $20. BUT Ford also extended the warranty on the transmission out to 135k miles and mine failed at 131k, so that would have saved me thousands on a repair. They can bring meaningful change. I say would have because parts were unobtainium during the pandemic and I ended up buying a new car after six months of waiting. Not a Ford.

[@nimoy007]

Did you still get the repair eventually?

[@Shiny_Dragonite]

@nimoy007 I didn't, but the dealership I traded the car into did. I got $4k for an undriveable, 10-year old car that would sit for another year before it actually got parts. It was pretty good to me until that point, so I hope whoever ended up with it got something they needed. I'm gonna guess an employee had their eyes on it for one of their kids, or it would have gone to auction much sooner.

[@233kosta]

These lawsuits aren't so much about compensating victims, as they are about making it very expensive to be a scumbag.

[@HellzBellz7]

yeah thats the thing with lawsuits from good people. its not about the settlement its about changing companies attitudes.

[@cc0767]

I would like to think not beeing able to uphold the warranty would get them sued again..

[@bliska8434]

I honestly don't mind if the lawyers get a payday, what I want to start seeing is companies being held accountable and taking responsibility for fault. every time I see a company get away with 'no fault' clauses I just get reminded that laws only apply when you can't pay for it to go away.

[@LanceThumping]

Yeah, sometimes the bigger complaint isn't that people barely got any money it's that the offense was so severe that the cost to the company should've been way higher or the company just dissolved and be gotten rid of.

[@kevind3974]

Class actions are more about making a statement and getting a judgment passed. It’s a preventative for the future Compensation is secondary. Sometimes you get payed, sometimes you don’t and usually if you are payed it’s only a few thousand to just a few bucks. Only ones certain of being payed are the lawyers as they do the work. After all laws are upheld by the rulings passed in court. this case will shape a lot of what can and can’t be done online

[@cwzialor]

sadly the civil rights act was abused to make corporations into "persons" this is why no one will go to jail...

[@XDRosenheim]

Agreed. Does not matter who gets the money, as long as the company gets to bleed. Is it unfair to not get anything? Sure... But do you want change, or just a payday?

[@ShrkBiT]

As Steve mentions, Class Action lawsuits are often met with cynicysm, often because the go-to thought is "oh, the lawyers will take most of the earnings from it, and I'm left with a negligable sum". Please note here that regardless of wether that is true or not, the offender will still pay that sum, regardless of how it is divided.. Even if you as a participant don't get out of it what you hoped you would, it can still A: amount to a large impact on the offender, repelling them from doing it again B: is a warning to other companies that would otherwise potentially do the same, and C: it sets legal precedent for future suits on other companies. That is worth a lot too!

[@Akkbar21]

Suuure? Whatever. You don’t try to deny or spin it, so god damn are class action suits pointless for the victims (save a few primary class members at times).

[@KitKatNisa]

@@Akkbar21 You REALLY like ignoring reality for the sake of your own twisted world view, don't you? By your logic, we should just let companies keep fucking people over instead of stopping them, because YOU don't think YOU would get enough out of it. Either learn to think past your own narrow, self-centered mindset or stay out of serious discussions you clearly have no business being part of.

[@CCDaDon15]

@@Akkbar21 just say you can’t read more than two sentences

[@schmerg19]

Unless the penalty is for more than was earned through the activity, the primary function is to stop the activity. There usually doesn't end up being any real repercussions to the company other than not being able to continue with the practice.

[@iCallUpChuck]

I used to work in class actions (primarily focusing on securities). Yes, there are abuses of this practice and like any industry, the bad apples can affect general perception. The point of class actions is to fight against a widespread alleged wrongdoing where one entity affected a wide range of parties. Certifying a class is the first big hurdle and there will unlikely be multiple class actions against the same wrongdoing. A class must be diverse enough, type of claimant, geographical placement, etc. And many class actions result in a settlement so I would not be surprised if that happened here. One advice to most people would be, if are identified to be in the class and you wish to pursue your own separate lawsuit, you MUST request exemption from the class action. Otherwise, you will be released and you will not be able to pursue individual suits. Individual lawsuits are expensive and slower and may not always end up in the result you wished.

[@MegaLag]

Thanks for making this video. Feel free to reach out, I'd be happy to share any insights that might help your efforts.

[@chiroyce]

Do you think the WAN show part of Linus speaking added anything to the video? Your video covered how Honey mislead both users and channels, Steve seems to be blaming irrelevant things on LTT

[@NinjaMonkeyPrime]

Have you received any criticism from the video saying that you are only interested in your own benefits?

[@Vikushu]

@@chiroyce I watch a few minutes of the WAN show. But my conclusion stays relatively similar: If Linus knew about this years ago, and cared about data security, whether or not he advertised Honey beforehand doesn't matter. It's not even about the supposed beef between Linus and Steve. I don't necessarily blame him for not knowing the full context of Honey's business at the time. But I do blame him for not realizing the implications of Honey's cookie replacement and withholding such crucial information for so long. The issue did not just affect KZbin or creators. It affects the entire internet. This type of controversy in the tech community isn't unusual, nor is it worth such sanctity. Take Microsoft's Recall, for instance. If he claims this was common knowledge, he had plenty of time to bring it up publicly and get the ball rolling.

[@jakedarang]

​@@Vikushuwhy didn't Steve make a video? He would have had the same knowledge.

[@ericgoodman3510]

@@jakedarang Because Linus lied about it being public knowledge...

[@00wheelie00]

Damage or not, they changed my communication with webshops without informing me. So even when I chose not to use a coupon, they still changed the affiliate code from the one I chose to use to support someone I want to support. Kickbacks I intended to go to reviewers went to paypal/Honey instead. They defrauded me by redirected money I intended to pay and go towards a chosen goal to themself using man in the middle attacks. But as I'm not in the US joining the lawsuit will not work :(

[@maimee1]

Same here. Had the brwoser extension still installed, just disabled.

[@bassntruck]

Yeah, they stole money from everyone, including small creators like myself. All we could see was click through and conversion rates. It now makes more sense why the conversion rate was so low. I didn't expect 100% but if someone clicks the link and said they bought the item and liked it, but my stats were not showing what the comments were.

[@mburg33]

Then ask your government to sanction the company up to and including banning them from operating in your country. It’s never that we are out of recourse, it’s that everything is so corrupt that governments gaslight us into thinking we can’t do anything.

[@klfjoat]

Yeah. But you're not a big corporation or rich person. So you being defrauded doesn't matter. There's a quote that the heart of conservatism is there are ppl the law protects but does not bind, and others the law binds but does not protect. Guess which one we are.

[@mightym]

This case will go nowhere.

[@RT-qd8yl]

Thank you for your dedication to consumers, Steve. Also I say this with all seriousness in regards to your 100 hours per week comment... PLEASE make sure you're looking after yourself and your health too man. I know is easier said than done but try not to overwork yourself. We want you around for a long time.

[@GamersNexus]

I've been high in the hours for over a decade now! Boosting it a bit for something important is worth it; however, thank you for the reminder. I will do my best to monitor health as well!

[@n8c]

Came here to post the same thing. One could already tell you were putting quite a few hours in, just don't underestimate the percentage shift. An already low free time (relaxing!) by an ABSOLUTE amount of hours is RELATIVELY *way* heavier on you!! And with your workload you shouldn't skip 8h sleep either. Rather skip other time-consuming themes (prebuilt checker) while being under that extra pressure (gladly bringing those topics back, since they are cool & are very pro-consumer as well - just so you don't overwork yourselves). Of course "just hire a competent, cool person" is also an option - is if it was that easy!! 😅

[@CotyTernes]

When you live the type of stuff you love and run your own company then you end up spending an unhealthy about of time doing it. That said, you would likely be unhappy and thinking about it too much if you took the right amount of time off. So ultimately being aware of how deep you are into things is the most important. Then just make sure you have a support structure in place, family, friends, counsolers ect to catch you when you inevitably crash due to overworking.

[@Reckless150681]

@@GamersNexus Steve if nothing's gonna stop you from working long-ass weeks, at least bring the biking vlogs back. That way you still "work" but at least you get out every now and then

[@somedude-b8]

​@@GamersNexus We love you guys, but remember the old saying: the only people who remember that you pulled a lot of overtime are your children.

[@ThrobbingWood]

MegaLag deserves a freaking medal for this, literally. The guy was just a less than half a million followers but rising quality investigative journalism channel that exploded into multi-billion dollar corporations and banksters faces. He deserves so much fame and credit for this!

[@Tappits84]

What about the KZbinrs and stuff that were looking into this 3 years ago? do they also not get any credit?

[@kevinerbs2778]

Who was the guy made the claim honey was a scam way back in 2018?

[@orionfire1947]

​@@kevinerbs2778 Sean called it a data harvesting scam at that point i believe.

[@gelul12]

@@kevinerbs2778markiplier

[@newstarcadefan]

@@kevinerbs2778 that was Markiplier

[@miamiole]

Came for the overclocking, stayed for the Consumer Protection.

[@LordSaliss]

I love how Wendell always says things like "I'm small time" "I'm just a rando", yet he is featured as the authority on complex subjects at multiple large tech reviewers like GN, and is typically the go-to support guy from all the famous people in the industry 🤣

[@Decessus666]

I saw Wendle at ltx19, no crowds around him. Confused the hell out of me.

[@lucidnonsense942]

Wendell, the TechTubers' TechTuber...

[@TheAtqthe30th]

​@@Decessus666I was talking to him so much at the last LTX. He's a blast to talk to. I'm a major techy in my family but he's just on another lvl.

[@ens0246]

Sorry to talk in memes but Wendell has one of the greatest hero arcs, it brings a tear to my eye 😂🥲

[@profosist]

@@Decessus666 thanks to this I was able to have a good talk at LTX23

[@valiant719]

GN: "I want the TRUTH!" PayPal/Honey: "You CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH" Judge: "Thanks Steve"

[@ouiVEVO]

GN's lawyer, knowing they cannot make a more eloquent point than GN themselves: "Back to you Steve "

[@walkir2662]

Linus: "People would sy mean things to me!"

[@saybrowt]

​@@walkir2662Yeah that's a restarted response imo. The worst part is that is pretty much what he said verbatim.

[@jordankrause4909]

Why would LTT have made a video about Honey when they didn’t know Honey was hiding better coupons from consumers to make them more money? It’s a major concern to consumers, because they are withholding better coupons that save those consumers more money. If Honey was only hijacking the affiliate link, but still finding every single coupon that exists and applied the coupon that would save the consumer the most money, there wouldn’t be any harm done to the consumer. It would have done what they had advertised. The only people that would have been harmed were the creators. So, if it wouldn’t harm the consumers and only harmed the creators, and many of the creators LTT were in contact with at the time knew of it then there’s no reason for LTT to make a video. LTT didn’t know Honey was doing that, so, why would they make a video about something they didn’t know about? How would they make a video about something they didn’t know about? Why didn’t you guys make the video sooner? Was it because you guys also didn’t know that Honey was doing this sooner? The whole point that LTT should have made a video on it appears to be more of a personal jab than an actual well thought out argument.

[@LuisPintoTheFirst]

They knew, that's why they moved to Karma, silently, without warning anyone

[@giggyolly]

​@@LuisPintoTheFirstand by quietly, you mean how they posted why they dropped honey on their community forum. Lol

[@mohammedgoder]

@@giggyolly I have a recollection of them mentioning that they dropped honey in a WAN show from years ago.

[@StellarJayEnthusiast]

Because they knew the average users didn't understand affiliate poaching and could not have known their active choices to support their preferred creators was being sabotaged. Don't play dumb. It's about informed consent and it's the entire basis for tech review and news.

[@mohammedgoder]

@ You clearly don't know what informed consent means. Linus doesn't need your consent for whatever Honey is doing wrong. Linus isn't obligated to inform you about anything. Inform yourself or take self-accountability. Stop pointing fingers at everyone else just because you were fooled.

[@wills.5762]

Somewhere up there, Gordon is watching this and you're making him proud.

[@GamersNexus]

This is one of the ones I kept wanting to call him on. Thanks for saying that.

[@danielcobia7818]

I feel like a turd for even asking this, but I'd like to know the context: Which Gordon are you talking about?

[@Qbasz007]

@@danielcobia7818 PC World Editor, Gordon Mah Ung

[@danielconnolly4252]

@@danielcobia7818 Gordon Mah Ung - kzbin.info/www/bejne/iqqZmXeIZ7qmoa8si=7hIeaKXXhGTzZYoj

[@stereobl1nd]

The late Gordon Mah Ung. ​@@danielcobia7818

[@danmielcarek2234]

Seen this coming from a mile away :) Thank you Steve

[@Zapdos0145]

this isn’t just a “thanks steve!” moment this is a Thank you Steve moment.

[@GamersNexus]

My first question to Wendell and others before filing was "does this seem like the GN thing to do?" Wendell said "this seems VERY in character for GN."

[@idindunuphenwong]

You think this story is big? Wait until the masses find out what Microsoft and Valve are doing with Minecraft and CSGO...

[@robwiljas]

@@idindunuphenwong What are they doing?

[@idindunuphenwong]

@ You mean besides turning kids into chronically online gamblers for profit? Only time will tell...

[@ethanc94]

I had never gotten too deep into content creation, but the last 6 years of GN reviews and enthusiasm for hardware changed my mind back in September of last year. I had started my own TikTok page where I build PCs and talk about my own experiences with computers. I hit 70 followers on New Year’s Eve and that was when I realized I wanted to try an take it more seriously. GN was always a muse for how I wanted to create content but with my own flavor I’ll find on the way. I had also purchased my first GN store item for the cause. Computers are my second love behind engineering (why I’m still in college) and talking about them, messing with them, and breaking them is part of my life. Seriously, thank you Steve. The outreach GN has is bigger than just KZbin, the world needs you to stay strong as ever. We’ll be here the whole time to support.

[@Dwhizzle]

Drop your account! 👏

[@bsx132]

Make an instagram too, a lot more people in their late 20's + use it over tiktok or don't use tiktok at all.

[@chr1srugby]

​@@DwhizzleI read that as you telling them to close their account then. Had to re-read 😅 I'm tired, and the internet is a cruel place. But my slow brain did realise you were being kind eventually!

[@Fighter_Blue]

@@chr1srugby DOWN WITH THE ACCOUNT. I need it on the ground floor to view it.

[@insaneBRSP]

After 1 hour of Louis Rossmann, I could say: Steve, your morality is true with your channel pursue! Don't change it!

[@DeletedCoreFile]

The age of drama is over. Time of the lawsuits has come

[@paulustrucenus]

LAWYER UUUUUP

[@JollyGiant19]

Is a lawsuit just a real time court drama?

[@idindunuphenwong]

Parents lining up to go after Valve and Microsoft for turning their kids into chronic online gamblers with Minecraft and CSGO:

[@Mr.Scott86]

​@paulustrucenus DECEPTICONS LAWYER UP

[@Beshman12]

Kendrick strikes again :P

[@Cobalt_Capacitor]

With every centimeter of hair grown, Steve gains more power against slimy corporate practices. "Back to you Steve", the mantra of his people, serves as both a warm greeting to newcomers of his flock, and a dire warning to the common folk's enemies. In all seriousness, keep fighting on Steve.

[@jmazoso]

He's going to go from Tech Jesus to Tech Rapunzel

[@Declan4253]

😆 The grey hairs have a 5 times multiplier effect.

[@iaial0]

​@@Declan4253 +5 wisdom

[@deepinmind83]

We need to make a monument to Steve complete with flowing locks of hair. 😂

[@JohnWalsh2019]

Also gains weight. Bro is going to be a round fur ball at this rate.

[@drspa44]

Microsoft Edge with its built-in 'smart online shopping' feature does the exact same cookie-stealing as Honey. Enabled by default on all new Windows installs. Why is no-one talking about this?

[@Dragonfury3000]

Windows in general is like that

[@odahithedubious]

I haven't used Edge, or Chrome, in years, except for one very limited use because a site simply would not work with my Brave browser. I'm not saying Brave is better, but it's certainly not putting more money in Google or Microsoft coffers (as far as I know).

[@H1zN]

Because people with any brains don't use Edge.. What's the market share of edge? 5%? 2/3 use Chrome and 16% Safari.

[@SMASHINGblargharghar]

Needs to be talked about if this indeed works the same way

[@drspa44]

@@H1zN This argument would hold water if Honey was automatically installed and enabled by default on Chrome. Instead, something like 0.02% of users have installed it.

[@YeslynArts]

Came here because of Louis Rossman video!!

[@bluedragon219123]

Remember folks, Class Actions aren't about getting rich but punishing a company for illegal acts. Still Great Job on The Video! :)

[@andrewclark6682]

Generally suing isn’t about getting rich, it’s about recovering damages

[@SnakebitSTI]

The whole legal basis for lawsuits is recovering damages. Not that it's never abused, and punitive awards are a thing, but the baseline is that the only people who make money off lawsuits are lawyers.

[@benjitheengi4447]

tragically they are often stern slaps on the wrist or just the cost of business

[@user-jk5um1om8l]

Class action fairness law suits by Ted Frank torpedoing settlements that only benefit class action lawyers are now a thing. 🙂

[@Lurch-Bot]

They're really mostly about making lawyers rich. The best way to punish a corporation is with many individual lawsuits. What they end up paying out for class actions is chicken scratch and is not an effective punishment. Furthermore, if someone pursues a class action, it isn't like they are going to properly notify me by registered mail that I am included in that class and if I don't find out about it in time to opt out, I am screwed out of my right to sue them as an individual. Class action lawsuits are exactly how corporations want it. It is the cheapest way for them to get away with all the shady crap they do. Class actions are literally part of the shady crap they do.

[@paullees6687]

A while ago I was listening to a "you're wrong about" podcast about the McDonalds hot coffee lawsuit and they said the big reason lawsuits exist is to act as a stop-gap between having less laws and regulations on the books while still holding groups accountable for harming others. So like you can have a rule that all organizations will keep their coffee machines at 180 degrees or you can keep the rules off the books and just have a plaintiff show the restaurant was being grossly negligent by increasing the temp. The same thing applies here. Class actions get a bad wrap from the same groups that didn't want the regulations in the first place. But we need class actions like this to keep shady practices like affiliate swapping in check

[@Lurch-Bot]

What would be better if everyone just sued individually but people are lazy. Class action lawsuits mostly make lawyers richer. You could hit a corporation a lot harder with individual lawsuits. The fact that you have to be aware of them in the first place (not easy to do), and opt out of them if you don't want to lose your right to sue individually, means they are the same kind of corrupt nonsense as stealing affiliate links. Your assertion that the same class of people involved in working to let corporations get away with murder are the ones you expect to keep them in line is ludicrous. It is like putting a fox in charge of the henhouse. Legal actions are a massive PITA for the average citizen. You can't just toss all the regulations out the window and expect lawsuits to do their job. It is quite literally anarchy. All corporations do is shove a bunch of boilerplate in their T&C which makes suing them a lot harder because now, not only do you have to prove your case, you have to fight tooth and nail to even get your day in court. You have to successfully argue their arbitration clause doesn't apply to your situation and that is rarely easy to do.

[@marcogenovesi8570]

@@Lurch-Bot bro people don't sue large corporations because they are broke, it's not lazyness. In most cases even if someone does, the corpos just throw money at them until they back down and gag them with an NDA. The point of class actions is that you can have a big enough budget to take on a corporation with relatively equal footing

[@paullees6687]

@ lurch-bot isnt even hiding that this isnt a real person with a real take. this is some AI bullshit. dont waste your time

[@alexphelps7042]

@@Lurch-Bot That wouldnt be better, if every concievable victim of Honey indivually lawsuits to completition the justice system would be brought it knees. Their are millions of potential cases here even if we assume an unlimited budget for all involved the courts could not possibly process everyone on just timeline. The general public would have to raise funds to procure new court officials justices and officers just to handle this. And when it was all over there'd never be payout! it would go the way of limewire, where the projected court fees & calculated damages literally exceed the gross value of the entire earth. nuhuh, theres good reasons Class Action Lawsuits exist, we arent the first culture to think of them and youre not clever for thinking youve defeated them logically.

[@TheSaival]

and in effect you guys have more and more laws while also having tons of lawsuits that show low societal cohesion and an incredibly low degree of belief in common sense Im an european and we only have even more laws because we dont sue for anything, the goverment is always faster and outlaws anything you could sue for even if its moronic 🤣

[@LastofAvari]

Steve and Legal Eagle should make a collab on this and call it either Gamer's Eagle or Legal Nexus.

[@GamersNexus]

Would be happy to work with them on some educational content around this!

[@real-raiden-ei]

Legal Nexus sounds dope

[@JSXSProductions]

Lawyers Nexus

[@idindunuphenwong]

Sounds like a combination of Minecraft and CSGO... no wait I take that back that's a bad idea... ignore me!!!

[@GameDevChad]

No, Legal Eagle is a political hack, stay away.

[@arge676]

Salem Techsperts brought me here! Keep up the great work!

[@Carminin_Cider]

Thank you guys. You doing gods work and I love supporting those who willing to fight for what's right. 💪

[@tristonm37]

You and I met at CES a few years ago when you were checking out my cougar build at the Gigabyte area just before COVID wreaked its havoc on the world. I held you in high regard before that meeting. Your willingness to take on fights like these because it's the right thing to do, no matter the possible repercussions to your bottom line, repeatedly solidifies my utmost respect for you, your integrity, and being one of those people who's willing to do the hard thing because it is the right thing.

[@LinkoLankao]

Are you mentally disabled ? They will face nothing negative from this vid, honey is already in the mud, in fact GN just farming positive feedback here, how are ya so blind to not see this ?

[@jakedarang]

People with integrity don't take clips from other creators out of context to fuel their jealousy.

[@CardosCarDose]

As a small content creator, affiliate links really help in my case as the industry I work in has a lot of consumer focused products that I can share on my channel. To me, it is a great and important source of income to grow, both in my life and channel. Even though I do car cleaning videos, nothing tech related, these affiliations being snatched by Honey impacts my channel and my way of life directly and negatively. I find it unethical and disgusting that a couple of greedy executives sat in a conference room and thought creating Honey’s affiliate stealing model was a good idea. (Insert evil rich businessman laughter) Thank you Steve for representing all of us. We are not related at all in the industry we work in, but we are on the same boat as creators just trying to make a living on what we love doing. I salute to your bravery to stand up against these greedy corporate executives. I wish you great success champ.

[@fatavocado7291]

blame the influencers who promoted it. They do such things all the time and usually it's the customer who pays the price, I'm tired of influencers promoting scammy stuff just because they get the payment. So in this case I am happy that those folks are paying the price. Sad that the other influencers are getting hurt though as it's unfair

[@macbuff81]

As a German, I very much appreciate the work this lawfirm and the students at WVU did to uncover and prosecute the massive fraud VW did. It is corporations like these that are a cancer to society, the environment and technological advancement. Corporations own and operate most governments, so it is nice to see that every once in a while, justice is actually done

[@hogey74]

Well said mate. As an Australian I've been shocked to learn of the behaviour of several of our corporations, most recently BHPs behaviour in the Brazilian disaster. We can support GN in their work with a few clicks. Your comments are making me think that it's time to to find a way to help the international victims of Australian perpetrators.

[@SputnikRSS1]

Well at least we know who to thank for not getting any good diesel cars anymore.

[@Blex_040]

Unfortunately VW just got a slap on the wrist here in Germany and a very soft one at that. The investigative team of ZDF frontal looked at what came of the whole Dieselgate scandal around a year ago and it was very apparent that politicians didn't really want VW to be pursued...

[@r0galik]

It's not done yet

[@kristoffer3000]

It was far from just VW that did a little cheeky cheating, it was pretty much everyone that used Bosch ECU's.

[@bullebajs702]

I think that the LTT part was included cause GN felt like LTT didn't give the consumer a chance to learn how honey worked (what they knew at the time ofc) so they could make a informed decision if they wanted to use it or not.

[@insanedelulu]

That is clearly the reason and obvious for anyone who isn't a fanboy or lives in some fantasy world where Steve is greedy and jealous. While it was bad to include that clip out of context, the only difference is that we now know more. But for anyone with a conscience that doesn't change anything. How is "hey, we only didn't care because it was only one scam and it wasn't targeting the consumer" any good. The problem is basically that GN didn't include Linus' absurd threshold for when he considers a scam actually bad and worthy of taking responsibility.

[@thatcherbuck]

This neglects that fact (that is mentioned in the LMG video) that this information was publicly circulating on Twitter. They didn't hear through a back-channel... they saw a tweet. Sure, LMG didn't make a video, but many other creators did not make videos either. The presiding belief is that Honey was still good for consumers, so no need to publicly bash them, just cut ties on a business level.

[@bullebajs702]

@@thatcherbuck all I'm saying is I think that a video on the topic at the time would spread allot more that forum/Twitter posts. As for me I completely missed those post but would definitely seen that video.

[@JustJoshTech]

Still watching. But great to see Steve

[@GamersNexus]

I know you certainly have considerations in this realm as well!

[@TechDweeb]

As if it isn't hard enough to be a small creator just barely scraping by, having to also deal with huge corporations silently stealing our scraps just casts a dark shadow over the entire creator space that should be a fun and vibrant place where everyone is flourishing.

[@XionBunny]

love your videos btw

[@sammiller6631]

Didn't expect TechDweeb to show up.

[@aquapendulum]

Immediate question: I know this is a separate suit with a separate cause of action, but are the 2 legal teams allowed to share discovery information?

[@GamersNexus]

Great question. My understanding is that if there is a certified class, it will be combined by then. I think they would then share discovery information as they are on the same 'team' -- but I will pass this to the firm as it's a great question!

[@2bit8bytes]

@@GamersNexus Can you please post the answer here if/when you get it?

[@StellarJayEnthusiast]

they can later combine if the class is identified as identical.

[@JuiceboxDesmond]

The hit on LTT is pretty unfair, and frankly the quality of your journalism has a long way to go. I've bought your merch and you've helped me get into Magic the Gathering. But in light of recent events I'm uncomfortable supporting GN going forward. Please strive to do better.

[@WalkMrJ]

Linus - "We knew it was a snake oil scam" Steve- "They knew it was a snake oil scam" Linus- "HOW DARE YOU!"

[@giggyolly]

​@@WalkMrJ LTT posted what they knew on their community forum, at the time. And it's the same knowledge GN had at the time. You're being unrealistic with your expectations.

[@StellarJayEnthusiast]

is that why you waiting until after Linus's Wan video complaining about it to comment on a 4 day old video?

[@StellarJayEnthusiast]

@@giggyolly you exepct GN to warn LMG viewers about info on the LMG forum on info that was unknown to most LMG viewers and users of their forum. It was LMG who had the sponsor relationship and broadcasted repeatedly to be about "Tech News"

[@coryseaward975]

Juice is just a comment follower.. You gots no idea bro

[@piparalegal2019]

Leonard French briefly touched on your lawsuit in his recent video, so I"m glad you're going through it today! Thanks for sticking up for us consumers!

[@GamersNexus]

Cool! Will check it out.

[@optiquest86]

I saw his video this morning and have been eagerly awaiting Steve's video all day!

[@TheLuceon]

After hearing it from Leonard I was curious to see what kind of video GamersNexus would do on the topic since being a party they can't reveal too much about their case.

[@Blex_040]

I was already excited yesterday when I saw Lawful Masses video who discovered GamersNexus as a plaintiff against PayPal Honey in a public legal database, but I didn't expect GN to drop a feature film length video about it :O

[@0mn1P4wn4g3]

That guy made it sound like GamersNexus had been scammed too and joined in the Legal Eagle class action though, which was very misleading.

[@WindFireAllThatKindOfThing]

Steve: Who sent you? The CIA? NSA? The KGB? MSI? Hitman: This hit brought to you by Honey.

[@EramPrince]

This Segue “ 🫥🫥🫥🫥LTT VIBE.

[@nerdjournal]

lol. More like this hit is brought to you by LTT. You know they are still salty. (for legal reasons this is a joke(and so was this))

[@WindFireAllThatKindOfThing]

@@nerdjournal Wasn't aware they were in a competition or that we were supposed to be 'picking teams' like some Xbox vs Playstation 5th graders

[@MutheiM_Marz]

And behide hitman is Mario, Luigi‘s brother…..

[@LRM12o8]

WindFireAllThatKindOfThing I wouldn't call them competition. LTT is tech entertainment with some benchmarks and education sprinkled in, while GamersNexus is tech consumer information and education with some entertainment sprinkled in. They're both doing something with tech, but it's like watching a tech magazin showcasing the latest gadgets on a tech fair vs. reading userreviews on a forum or blog

[@zacharyperry8282]

Edit: I am happy people are going after Honey here. Great job on taking a lead here and initiating. ----- Not only is the Linus quote out of context in how you showed it, but you directly attack this miss-represented statement as if that's his view of the situation today, and not the re-telling of their thoughts when they first dropped Honey as a sponser. They were under the impression as everyone else was that honey was still better for the consumer and not harming, unlike now. I just hope GN's future investigations are executed better. Quotes like these should be taken with the right context too, especially if you're going to disagree with them.

[@nonyabisness6306]

what is the context then? bit daft to post allegations like that without a shred of evidence eh?

[@zacharyperry8282]

​@@noilfaund it is out of context. Yes he said those words but the context is what he's talking about. Steve quotes it like Linus talking about the current situation, but Linus was sharing his thought process from years ago, when they initially dropped them as a sponsor, as I already stated. Go watch it, or read the other comments talking about the context of you want to understand more :)

[@noilfaund]

It's not out of context. Linus said it is, so now you're saying it is. But it's not.

[@zacharyperry8282]

@noilfaund it is. The entire discussion up to that point is discussing 4 years ago. And immediately after the quoted portion he says F honey with what they know now.

[@fchrissandy]

@@noilfaund answer this then: let's say a scenario where Honey indeed is giving customers the best of the best coupon, and the only downside is stealing creators' affiliate money. How will the customers react if a creator tell them to stop using it just because it's hurting the creator? It's basically saying, "hey dear watchers, i don't care whether you get the best coupon or not, cos i'm losing my affiliate money, so don't use it" do you realise how different that sounds compared to today's situation?

[@ggud]

Being able to use paypal to buy the limited edition honey pot t shirt is crazy work. Thanks Steve!

[@oliverkahn987]

N.C. Attorney here. Good to see you fighting the good fight. Hope you well leverage the treble damages owed under the UDTPA.

[@gmonkman]

You have to start with "As an N.C. Attorney ...."

[@Lurch-Bot]

Oh please. You lawyers came up with the class action nonsense so you could line your pockets with ease while helping corporations get away with paying the minimum possible amount for their misdeeds. What would be an effective punishment would be thousands of individual lawsuits.

[@marcogenovesi8570]

@@Lurch-Bot who is paying for those thousands of individual lawsuits? The holy spirit?

[@AmaiAmai-sh3ry]

@@Lurch-Bot It isn't the lawyers, but the courts. No court needs to hear a trillion cases, also there must be consistency in rulings to prevent issues with case law down the line. Combining cases with similar or the same issue prevents inconsistent rulings, and ultimately protects the legal system's integrity.

[@RobertGracie]

The amount of stupidity from Honey cannot be put into words, when the system promised to give credit to the content creator via a referral link and then take that credit for themselves thats some super illegal shady crap right there, thats high grade illegal and anti consumer activity right there! Also to you Steve and the team at CPM Legal, I hope you bloody win and put Honey out of business outright!

[@luminatrixfanfiction]

Pretty much every KZbinr is affected by this. This is too big to put back in the genie bottle. Every channel has the legal grounds to sue Honey and Paypal which is enough to put them out of business. Every ref link that is redirected cutting out the middle man, is basically theft.

[@0mn1P4wn4g3]

I don't think it was stupid at all, in fact the legality of it is very disputable particularly where overwriting the affiliate link is concerned. It's certainly slimy though. I think ripping off consumers is the likely part to get them into trouble.

[@StellarJayEnthusiast]

Linus knows that his excuse about being the victim to a mob is BS, I as a user am more angry about his handling of this Megalag's video expose than his lack of action on Honey in 2022, but after hearing his BS excuse for choosing not to inform us his viewers in 2022 and that he believes viewers aren't harmed. It's clear to me Linus just doesn't understand the consensual relationship between viewers and creators. LMG/LTT is now 100% Caveat emptor, (buyer-beware) going forward. The kindest thing he's done as a result of all this is admit he's not a tech journalist which just made the decision to stop watching that much easier. It sucks, because it's clear LMG hires good people, they just have a shitty Elon like boss.

[@Drew_H.]

Steve is all about the money too you know. His store, including this new honey pot t-shirt, takes paypal for payment. The irony is incredible.

[@Pudge371]

When I saw that Leonard French made an update on the whole Honey situation and GN was mentioned, I was eagerly awaiting your video. Keep standing up for not only your industry, but consumers as a whole. Loving the deep-dive, long form content as of late.

[@space-can]

Very excited to see Gamer's Nexus and Legal Eagle finally combine their suits to form Megatron.

[@Narfwak]

something something indochino suits

[@MutheiM_Marz]

Don’t bring a dirty bias political channels like Legal Weasel to GN…. You ruin something sacred.

[@jeffs1571]

​@@MutheiM_MarzLolwut Their political bias is "this is the law"

[@ceebee]

LegalNexus?

[@reddragon4482]

@@MutheiM_Marz Exactly, all he does is talk about Trump when the subject matter on his videos has nothing to do with it. He has major better call saul vibes, he's a creep.

[@whitefink7090]

The observation that 'pulling up the ladder ' (forming monoplies) harms both consumer and would be competitors is exactly what's missing in capitalism today. There is no rule of law without equal enforcement.

[@shocktnc]

It is also a core tenet of capitalism, which is why I roll my eyes when people try to blame capitalism. We haven't been running a capitalist economy for quite some time.

[@deggy42]

@@shocktnc I mean, that's a little no-true-Scotsman. The end result of unregulated (or lightly-regulated) capitalism is monopolies that seek to reinforce their positions and squash competition. That's... what capitalism is. It's pretty much the main problem of the economic system, and it's the reason we need things like antitrust laws (which are objectively anti-capitalist in nature) to bust up corporations that have "won" their markets.

[@ElektronDeForza]

​@@deggy42and they do that by creating regulations that the big company can burden but the smaller competition can't

[@zerothalpha]

Everyone seems to be here to comment on a short segment in the video rather than discuss the bigger implications of the Honey scam. I'd recommend you all watch Louis Rossmann's video on this topic if you want to continue to fight about this topic. While you all get loss in the weeds and fight about which creator was more right, maybe that's why shit doesn't get done. Because you all focus on the weeds. I hope the Honey class action wins and that it sets a positive precedence for consumer protection in this type of situation. Will be getting rid of my paypal account asap.

[@thatcherbuck]

Sure, we can go to the Louis Rossmann video, but it entirely misrepresents Linus' arguments and continues the out-of-context commentary on LMG. I watched most of the video, and I left with a lot less respect for Louis (one of my personal favorite KZbinrs). Lots of bad faith arguments and emotions caught into that video.

[@zerothalpha]

@@thatcherbuck You are absolutely welcome to your perspective. I just think that there is so much going wrong on this scam that it's a bit ridiculous that all people focus on is this small part of a whole. It's completely sidelined the main issue and taken over the narrative. Is this really more important than all the people being scammed and having their data stolen? Scrolling down the comments I see nothing about the actual topic and everything about which content creator one supports. I don't think any content creator has to be the holy bastion of justice. I am glad to see people calling out this scam and doing something about it if they so choose or not. There are many valid points made here and in other content against the Honey scam, but the minute someone's favourite creator is named, it's as if people feel all the content spoken is invalidated. I think reasonable people can say they agree with a lot of the research that content creators have done to researching this scam and taking action and still disagree with some of the statements or comments made about other content creators. But everywhere I read are self righteous comments from backseat keyboard warriors who think they represent the holy justice of the interwebs and go so far with a finger wagging head shaking dismissal as if somehow they would have said it different, or wouldn't have called out in such a way and that it's absolutely unfair. No one is perfect and everyone who thinks things should have been said one way or another must imagine they are people who never say things that offend others intentionally or not. I suppose this comment section is filled with perfect people who never offend anyone at all.

[@Vi-bc9xx]

louis rossman is a garbage content creator that do one good thing ( right to repair ) and pretend he is a good content creator when he is not. he somehow turned that video into an hour long when it can be 10 to 15 minutes by repeating the same point across the video.

[@MrMadness574]

PSA: If you are a content creator impacted by the actions of Honey and PayPal, consider filing an independent lawsuit rather than relying solely on a class action. While joining a class action may seem convenient, individual lawsuits often allow for tailored claims and potentially greater compensation reflective of your unique damages. Class action settlements typically distribute a collective award among all participants, which may result in lower individual payouts. Consult with an attorney to evaluate your specific circumstances and determine the best course of action to protect your rights and maximize your potential recovery.

[@LillyRocket]

But consider also that litigation costs money and the pool for compensation is not limitless - first come, first served. So, while one considers an individual claim, meanwhile various class action suits are already filed and potentially settled earlier, there may be nothing left for your claim once Honey is bankrupt and PayPal potentially has shielded itself from ruinous settlements by dragging everything on for so long that individual plaintiffs have to drop out for cost reasons and just settle it with the class action lawsuits.

[@Bachimge]

This isn’t bad advice, but it’s worded such that it sounds like the reward is split evenly. In a case such as this, every transaction was recorded individually, allowing accuracy on payouts for damages.

[@nojuanatall3281]

It is split evenly in a class action. That's not good.

[@BeersAndBeatsPDX]

Filing a suit by yourself is a great way to go bankrupt. They will bury your lawyer in so much paperwork that you are forced to drop the case. A class action, while limiting in payout, has strength in numbers.

[@Treppiede]

3:16 - this is the start of the part that's been harming regular users, yet all of the coverage by creators I'd seen thus far completely ignored it. I'm glad to see it highlighted here. Thanks guys

[@deepinmind83]

THIS. This is the serious problem, not to diminish the effect on creators. It still is a mess for everyone in the end.

[@ShiroUsaAkibit]

I am confused why some people think that the Linus clip was taken out of context or unjustified. Considering what we know right now what Honey is doing from MegaLag's video 1. Sniping affiliate referrals 2. Withhold higher-values coupons to consumers We know that Linus and his groups only knew the first one before MegaLag's video, the referral sniping. Gamers Nexus (GN) only mentioned the withholding coupons at 3:50 mark to show what Honey does in addition to sniping referrals as context for the lawsuit. Withholding coupons was not mentioned again until after Linus clip which is only about the lawsuit. After GN inserts his own products, he goes on a long explanation why affiliate referrals are important to small creators including himself when he was small and how screwing those creators affect consumers as well (7:20 - 15:40). I believe that is why Linus's justification for not making video about it (the 16:16 clip) was inserted to show that even if they are just screwing creators (as LTT previously is aware of before Megalag's video), consumers got screwed as a result as well regardless of whether Honey withhold coupons or not, so Linus's reasoning may not be sound. In addition, since Linus Tech Tips (LTT) is a large channel about tech and have discussed browser extensions before like adblockers, people may have expectations that LTT would be more forthcoming with a known problematic browser extension. During the segment, there is no mention of Honey withholding coupon at all, so even when I watch this video the first time without knowing the drama, I understand that GN is not sniping LTT for the withholding coupon part but for the affecting creators part. So I failed to see why it is considered that Linus was taken out of context. People are angry and/or disappointed in LTT because they believe that they are for consumer advocacy. Apparently GN believe so as well, hence the sniping. I did believe so as well since I thought, perhaps wrongly that people who do honest reviews want the best for consumers. Linus's justification for not informing his viewers means that should there be Honey 2: Electric Boogaloo then he or his channel will probably do the same thing and be as quiet as they can (Remember that LTT's reason for dropping Honey is on the forum at all simply because someone asked for the reason and LTT just reply) And personally, I think that's OK. Many youtubers and companies do not advocate for consumers and we can't force them to. They have employees or families that they have to prioritize first. (And personally, I would like it more if Linus go with that justification instead and say that they don't want trouble with Paypal and just stop there.) We just have to adapt accordingly and don't look to them for consumer advocacy in the future. (This also means that they can't claim to be consumer advocate as well.) I am a very recent and tiny creator so while I am not affected by Honey, I am disappointed to know that LTT will not be advocating for small creators now or in the future. They are still very entertaining though. I also don't understand why people think that GN already knew about Honey screwing creators. GN said it himself in this very video that he has never taken Honey's sponsorship and just knew that many people do use Honey. I am under impression that GN reviews PC parts, pre-builts, and PC companies but never any browser extensions or even something close to Internet browsers. So I failed to see why GN would know of any of this. LTT on the other hands have broad range of topics including browsers and extensions. Does anyone expect GN to be in the know regarding android phones or iphones as well? I assume GN or his viewer that may have tipped GN off know this from MegaLag or Legal Eagle. I did not expect GN to make video about Honey at all, actually. But I appreciate them looking out for consumers. Then there are comments saying GN can't stop doing clickbaits and dramas at LTT's expense. I don't see Linus on the thumbnail and title and the clip is only around 2 minutes in an hour video. Did GN change or edit those after publication? and I must ask, after 15th Aug 2023 video titled "HW News - Linus Tech Tips' Terrible Response, ESMC, & Starfield x AMD GPUs", how many times have GN sniped Linus, LTT, or Linus Media Group (LMG)? How many times have GN caused drama? And additionally I must ask, how many times have GN sniped Intel (CPU failures), Gigabyte (spicy PSU), NZXT (extra spicy H1 case), Dell (“It's Better Than Dell” award), etc? It's a bit long but I tried to keep it related to this video and its comment (I don't want to reply the same sentences across multiple similar comments).

[@Crends28]

I have the feeling, since there is a lot of overlap between LTT and GN viewers there are a lot of people that are just upset that their favourite other KZbin channel got "attacked". Your comment and view on the whole stuff is actually a really good summary and I think it reflects the whole situation. I wouldn't have come here if Louis Rossman didn't post an hour long video ranting about LMG and others just to check what he was talking about. Personally I couldn't care less about LMG since they lost me completely after the one ex-employee thing aswell as their permanent exuses for shitty behaviour. And I think not including the clip would have benefitted GN more than including it. And since they didn't want to make it about LMG I think it would have been better to leave it out. Maybe make another video explaining why LMG was bahaving wrong. I also don't understand people saying that it's clickbait?? I dont see it in the title or thumbnail that LMG was mentioned...

[@ericgoodman3510]

The short answer is because they are LTT fanboys and don't want to believe that Linus and others at LTT knew about the scams and didn't tell anyone so they attack those rightfully calling out Linus for his lies and manipulation of the facts to make himself (Linus) look good.

[@thatcherbuck]

A lot of the belief around misrepresentation is because Steve criticizes a quote from LMG without taking LMG's context into consideration. He does not mention that LMG did NOT know about consumer damages. He did NOT mention that LMG cut ties in a purely business context. He did NOT mention that this information was relatively public knowledge, and they heard this as a tertiary recipient. Basically, he did not provide context crucial to making accurate moral judgements about LMG, yet still made moral judgements about LMG and their decisions.

[@ericgoodman3510]

@@thatcherbuck ​ The LTT forum post proves you are lying about what Linus knew and when he knew it.

[@ericgoodman3510]

The short answer is because they are LTT fanboys and don't want to believe that Linus and others at LTT knew about the scams and didn't tell anyone so they attack those rightfully calling out Linus for his lies and manipulation of the facts to make himself (Linus) look good.

[@64bitcrafts]

Fantastic video. Thank you for the deep dive into the various business and legal aspects of the honey situation. As someone who hates having my data mined, and also is trying to get whatever revenue I can into my small business, honey seems to basically be a massive spit in my face, imo. Even if I refuse a sponsor deal, they'll still steal my revenue just by broadening their user base, and are actively deceiving any customer who is trying to support a creator or business. If there was a dude who hung out in a restaurant and stole the tips left for waitstaff, it wouldn't matter how nice he was, how much 'business' he brought in by spreading the word about the restaurant, or how many people 'in the know' there was about his habits--it's still a CRIME to steal that. While the digital process obfuscates the legal crime, anyone who has had to work for tips knows how ruinous a violation this is. It's fascinating that the comments seem to be so focused on a brief (2 min?) snippet of another creator 'being treated rudely', rather than the massive violation against societal trust and the gig/consumer-to-consumer economy that is really still in it's infancy.

[@technogamer18]

HELL YES. Time to bring Honey down.

[@idindunuphenwong]

At least Honey is farming mostly adults... Unlike Microsoft and Valve with Minecraft and CSGO...

[@antongrekov7710]

​@@idindunuphenwong hmmmm weird comparison but ok

[@iamneophyte]

Waiting for the inevitable fusion of the lawsuits of you and LE, because the amount of legal power and weight that that would attach to the suit would be off the charts.

[@shiniesglitters5424]

Legal Eagle is good at blowing around a lot of hot air and not doing anything. I was so happy to see that GN is doing its own lawsuit.

[@Alvin853]

From what I see in the court documents, it seems GN has already been added to the california class action lawsuit started by Wendover and the team around Legal Eagle. I wonder if GN will still go ahead with the north carolina class action or everybody just focuses on the one in california.

[@MutheiM_Marz]

Legal Weasel is not worthy of working with GN…. GN is political neutral, Legal Weasel is bias…

[@reddragon4482]

@@shiniesglitters5424 It's just idiots that think cause he is well dressed and wears a suit that he knows what he is doing lol.

[@BeyondTrack]

First LegalEagle, Now GamersNexus against Honey in a lawsuit. I'm all in for the popcorn.

[@CyPhaSaRin]

i mean only after some way way smaller channel brought light to it, even this video should be considered way too late lol.

[@Mach1048]

I'm waiting for the Coffeezilla video :) That's a Ven Diagram that I never want to be the center of.

[@SangheiliSpecOp]

@@CyPhaSaRin Generally people's attention have to be brought to something before they can know about it. Better late than never :)

[@SteynTreyn]

I love all the tech guys. LTT, GN, JayzTwoCents, Paul's Hardware, Bitwit, etc. But recently I feel like Steve has a personal vendetta against Linus or LMG. Something that I used to love about all these tech guys were the mutual respect they had for one another. The collaboration that they did. I loved seeing Jay and Austin running though a Micro Center to build the cheapest PC, or Martina from nerdforge building a sick looking PC with Linus, or a Paul showing love to Kyle. I loved this dynamic. It was the one place were I felt everybody was working together with with respect for one another. However it feels like Steve is deliberately driving a wedge into this dynamic and trying to start a war. I get that they are a journalistic tech channel and it's their duty to report on the news that's happening in the space, but these jabs at LMG doesn't feel like journalism, it feels personal. I've watched Linus talk about Honey on the WAN show, I watched this video and saw the comment that Steve makes, I watched Linus response on the WAN show, I read the statement Steve made on X. Based on all these videos and responses, from what I can tell, Linus and his team are trying their utmost best to to be open and respectful, to work with GN, and to find a way to move forward, while Steve appears to be hanging back, waiting for ammunition to fire his next shot.

[@rizyu]

It feels like Steve has a major vendetta against the others. He will attack them with no care like Linus and Jay if they so miss step in his eyes. Why isn't Steve going after Safiya Nygaard for the Honey sponsorships? She promoted them a lot on her videos before. It just feels like he wants the others to fail so he can come out on top. But this time its just digging his own careers grave.

[@JamesBurdon-gu5yu]

Your narative is esily debunked. LTT had the personal venedtta, when they smeared GN and Hardware Unboxed, as "Not doing tests" Meanwhile LTT was wrongly peforming almost all their tested and criminally defamed small.companies while taking donations from corsair and letting these influence the videos opinions, GN rightfully pointing out the completley unacceptable behavior of LTT and its 100+ employee group is not a vendetta when its truthful which it is. You like infotainment ober facts but thats not sreves problem.

[@MistyKathrine]

He doesn't.

[@jakedarang]

It's just ugly jealousy unfortunately. He can't be happy other tech KZbinrs are successful.

[@MistyKathrine]

@ Steve really isn't the type of person who gets jealous. Linus on the other hand...

[@Bottlecap]

As someone who watched Suits, I understood some of the legal words said in this video.

[@sigen7053]

Well, if Linus wasnt a Canadian, i guess Steve would also have a lawsuit coming after him.

[@raawesome3851]

Linus is not after Lawsuits. Even after that one woman who accused Linus and LTT of encouraging sexual harassment and abuse charges, he didn't sue the woman for defamation, mostly because he genuinely wanted to move past it. Linus ain't litigious.

[@vitelspring]

@@raawesome3851 Everybody was destroying LMG & LTT over that, yet after the investigations done by Roper Greyell came out, almost little to NO coverage. It's plain to see that there has been an agenda.

[@ChimericWings]

Just bought a limited edition shirt to support the cause, and I did NOT use PayPal. Thanks Steve! - Leo, Sydney Australia

[@SpontaneousWeasel]

Great video - keep up the good work guys!

[@rootedsquid]

100 hours a week? Holy crap. Haven’t finished the video yet, but I am so grateful for your investigative journalism and support of consumer rights. On top of being an entertainer. I hope once new GPU season passes you have a much earned vacation

[@stephenkimble9275]

Steve: I get worried when I hear about 100hrs per week of a time commitment. In my experience that's only sustainable for a couple months before burnout. I hope that you find more time for yourself soon.

[@simersam2004]

Hopefully he gets burnt out on these type of videos and goes back to reviewing pc hardware.

[@luvwwe]

@@simersam2004you have something against consumers rights ehh what wrong with you there many reviewers out there

[@mtnmosin2740]

Since its just a matter of proving theft, "easily done", the whole case should be over in five minutes. Paypal will cave and do a settlement to avoid having to figure out who all they stole money from, layers get paid handsomely, a few people pocket the rest, nothing changes

[@Ohmverse]

I’m not even a “computer” guy, but I’ve started watching this channel because of your commitment to protecting consumers. Good on you, and thank you 🙏 🖖

[@Wilson18Tutorials]

Disappointed regarding the handling of the LTT comments. You've done this several times now and i think you should do better.

[@StellarJayEnthusiast]

So disappointed that he came here immediate after Linus cried about it on Wan show, to show his support. PR at its finest.

[@jojojojo4332]

@StellarJayEnthusiast doesnt make it less valid about the possibility of slander.

[@mike4402]

@@jojojojo4332 its not slander though. Linus whining about muh context when with context it makes linus look fkn evil instead of just stupid. He intentionally didnt talk about honey because only small creators were being affected. Thats your missing context.

[@aoterou]

@StellarJayEnthusiastyour point is that we shouldn’t have both sides of the story? I saw you comment the exact same thing many times… so what if people watch both videos before having an opinion? Why would you think that’s such a bad thing?

[@J-1410]

Their article has screen shots of Linus calling his viewers the R word for "not understanding", calling Steve "autistic", and telling GN to "watch themselves" when they talk about LMG as "you aren't a two bit channel any more".

[@jonahhekmatyar]

This honey thing is actually insane. I normally don't care that much about the "scam products" that youtubers promote but this is actually something I'm glad to see having something done.

[@ForgottenNavigator]

GN isn't LMG. LMG isn't GN. I don't expect deep dive journalism from LTT. I don't expect kludged PC projects from GN. Punching up is one thing, but shoehorning LMG into the Honey drama when hundreds of creators took honey sponsorships seems like a personal issue, not a professional one. I love the tech KZbin space. And GN has consistently been the best at benchmarks. But I feel Steve's damaged his credibility by turning LMG into his personal white whale.

[@Gatsu563]

Except contrary to other creators, LMG was warned by viewers on their forum. They upload at least 5 videos a week and often struggle to find topic. They had one topic they could have investigated for the benefit of everyone but they didn't bother.

[@MrFido7up]

@@Gatsu563 they didn't investigate because at that time it was believed that honey benefit the consumer and actually do the work which is provide discount code so they didn't want the consumers (viewers) to stop using honey basically they even sacrificed themselves for consumer/viewer sake but somehow GN twisted this against them by hiding that fact. which Linus have talked about it in the wan show that he quote in this video!! and when you hear some news you must always hear both sides before you judge.

[@MistyKathrine]

LMG was the 3rd largest promoter of Honey. They deserve all of the criticism they are getting for how poorly they handled the situation.

[@MrFido7up]

@ the issue is: this is not valid criticism instead it’s taking clip out of context which is very bad thing to do and it’s not the right way to criticize anyone.

[@MistyKathrine]

@ The criticism was 100% valid and echoed how many of us felt.

[@jmm6533]

As a whole you’ve done great as a investigative journalist, but I do believe LMG’s note today on the WANshow does demonstrate where you can do better. If you wanna be the guy, you gotta be the guy through and through, not just where you want to be.

[@JamesBurdon-gu5yu]

LTTS note was a failed cover up and Ganers nexus did the right thing by expoding their yet again immoral behaviorYour narative is esily debunked. LTT had the personal venedtta, when they smeared GN and Hardware Unboxed, as "Not doing tests" Meanwhile LTT was wrongly peforming almost all their tested and criminally defamed small.companies while taking donations from corsair and letting these influence the videos opinions, GN rightfully pointing out the completley unacceptable behavior of LTT and its 100+ employee group is not a vendetta when its truthful which it is. You like infotainment ober facts but thats not sreves problem.

[@dakelpoandgames2593]

Ive been watching both Steve and Linus for years. I absolutely love their content. I'm not really a huge fanboy of either and I like both for different reasons. Such as how in depth Gamers Nexus goes in their reviews and investigations. It's one of the things I love most about this channel. It's one of the reasons I watch Digital Foundry, JerryRigEverything, and Daniel Owens. With LTT, I love the fun and simplicity of their videos. Its something that I can turn my brain off and watch after a long day. I like their quick, simple, and informative shorts that can lead me to doing further research into what they have said. They both have their strengths and weaknesses, but even with LTT making mistakes in reviews and having to correct them, it is nowhere near as bad as Steve taking a random shot at LTT for absolutely no reason. There was no proof of any claim made towards LTT and actual proof of the opposite. Steve, you have gotten increasingly negative over the years. Covering anti-consumer practices is one thing, but taking random shots at another small company that is doing the same work you do? Yeah they are bigger than you, but LTT is no fortune 500 corporation. I love your content, I love your in depth reviews, and I have loved your stupid little experiments and tours. This is one thing I wont get behind though. I do not believe I will be watching Gamers Nexus for the foreseeable future until there is some sort of correction and apology. No one will probably read this, but idrc. Bye for now Steve. Hope to see you in the future. Edit: Typos.

[@Spathinator]

Really appreciate having you, Louis Rossman, Mudahar, LegalEagle and the departed TotalBiscuit on the side of consumers. This is why i love independent journalism and advocates that are NOT beholden to companies and trying to appease advertisers. I like Linus and dont really blame him for any part of this but wish the alarm was sounded off earlier.

[@DelgaDude]

Idk how u can consistenly be so based but hats off to u Steve and your amazing team.

[@Rresenden]

Linus lives rent free in Steve’s head.

[@MattTorres]

Wonder when theyll rebrand to LTT Nexus

[@JamesBurdon-gu5yu]

Your narative is esily debunked. LTT had the personal venedtta, when they smeared GN and Hardware Unboxed, as "Not doing tests" Meanwhile LTT was wrongly peforming almost all their tested and criminally defamed small.companies while taking donations from corsair and letting these influence the videos opinions, GN rightfully pointing out the completley unacceptable behavior of LTT and its 100+ employee group is not a vendetta when its truthful which it is. You like infotainment ober facts but thats not sreves problem.

[@benolsson1698]

Man GN really seems to feel the need to go after LTT for more clicks. Takign quotes out of context is pretty common but I expect better from this channel. Please resist turning into one of those terrible drama channels. Always love the tech coverage and some of this video is great but... Come on man, anyone who watched that WAN show can see how much you manipulated that line to get the shock value you wanted instead of the content.

[@jloiben12]

He didn’t take Linus out of context. There is no additional context that materially impacts Steve’s argument. Linus knew Honey was pulling a B2B bait and switch on Linus’s customers. Linus allowed this to happen because Linus would have “hanged from the nearest tree” if Linus told his customers. Steve said this is unethical. The only additional material context that could be added here is either (1) that Linus did not know of the B2B bait and switch or (2) that Honey did not engage in the B2B bait and switch at that time. That’s it. One of those two have to be true or there is nothing that can materially change the validity of Steve’s critique of Linus

[@karlhungusjr1]

@@jloiben12 why didn't GN do a video about it at the time? why is LTT expected to do a video about it back then but GN gets a pass?

[@PhoenixWrong_]

Not gonna lie. The bit about LTT sounds more like you have a chip on your shoulder rather than being relevant.

[@JamesBurdon-gu5yu]

Your narative is esily debunked. LTT had the personal venedtta, when they smeared GN and Hardware Unboxed, as "Not doing tests" Meanwhile LTT was wrongly peforming almost all their tested and criminally defamed small.companies while taking donations from corsair and letting these influence the videos opinions, GN rightfully pointing out the completley unacceptable behavior of LTT and its 100+ employee group is not a vendetta when its truthful which it is. You like infotainment ober facts but thats not sreves problem.

[@MistyKathrine]

LMG sucks by the way.

[@danieltoth9742]

I'll just add some context to what Linus said, since GN (very unfairly) neglected to do so. The Linus clip was taken from the Jan 3 WAN show and starts at 5:30-ish. If you watch a mere 15 seconds further than what was shown here, you will hear Linus say that he didn't know H*ney was negatively affecting customers, only creators. (Remember, we're talking about 3 years ago, but the full details of H*ney's wrongdoings and how they affect the customer have only surfaced recently.) Linus wasn't the one who discovered the full scope of what's really going on, and no one else spoke about it either until recently, so his claim checks out. His choice to avoid publicizing the issue was based on limited information, unlike how Steve so strongly implies. As much as I disagree with his choice to stay silent, Linus was _not_ knowingly anti-consumer. GN has done good reporting on LMG's issues in the past, but this was indeed an out-of-place, unnecessary mischaracterization of a party that is unrelated to this lawsuit. Yes, Linus has wronged people in the past, but he is _not_ the antagonist of _this_ story. H*ney is. People seem to forget that.

[@Kevin-mx4vm]

Go back to Linus Shill Tips and buy whatever garbage he's peddling you consoomer

[@mike4402]

@@danieltoth9742 convenient you say what happened AFTER, but not BEFORE. How convenient.

[@isaacfehr1563]

Hey Steve, I fucking love GN and all the work you do. I think this channel is the ideal for what journalism should be, and your work has legitimately made the hardware space better for consumers. When you said you’ve been working around a hundred hours a week, I got a little worried about you. I quit my job last year due to burnout from working long hours in a (relatively) bad environment, and my mental health has been slow to recover. I hope you can take care of yourself in the midst of all the great work you do.

[@AlanSmithee-h6q]

So glad to see you supporting the Internet Archive in all of this.

[@beeeyaaah111]

Thank you guys for doing this! I have loved watching your channel for soooo long now and will keep watching for many more years.

[@acarrillo8277]

Fun fact there are only 168 hours in a week. *IF* he sleeps 8 hours a night that leaves 28 hours for everything else he does with his life, which breaks out to 4 hours a day to commute and engage in non-sleep rest, relaxation and maintenance. But this would all be on a 7-day work schedule. The point I am making is Steve is giving everything to this community, and it is also a concise explanation for what his hair is gaining the grey streaks. If he keeps this up there will be much more grey in coming years. Steve your hard work is appreciated and recognized.

[@CptJistuce]

This is why Steve doesn't upload mountain bike videos anymore.

[@wyatt77777]

Hello Steve, I say this as someone who bought one of your mouse mats (signed by the way), 12 coasters, and 2 anniversary mugs; and watches most of your videos. I think you took Linus seriously out of context in a way that at best is careless and at worse defames him. He clearly mentioned at least twice he did not know about that at the time about Honey what we know now. He clearly mentioned at the time viewers would criticize even turning on adsense in a video. He did not see it is as a good idea to advocate for when at the time Honey promised a better deal for consumers that would take away affiliate revenue for creators. I understand and believe him on that view at the time. It is not like 'trust me bro'. I apologize if this second point comes off the wrong way, but please get some sleep and reduce your hours. Advocacy is a marathon, not a race. Burning yourself out and making unnecessary mistakes will only hurt your goals, not help them. Please take a step back. Before you came along, I never bought merch from a youtuber. I buy your merch because I get utility out of it and to support your efforts as one of the best tech youtubers and I would like you to stay that way. (I also really like your coasters.) Please keep up the excellent work against Honey. This was otherwise an excellent video on several key topics of consumer law. As a recent new resident of NC; I may make use of that consumer protection against a specific home services company.

[@StellarJayEnthusiast]

"as a dude who allegedly spent money and came here immediately following a Linus Wan video, try not to look into my motivations and potentially disingenuous opinion."

[@danieltoth9742]

@StellarJayEnthusiast What a nice comment. You literally couldn't assume any worse of a complete stranger than to call him disingenous based on... what, exactly? That you don't know what he's talking about? He brought up some valid points, unlike you. This immediately hostile knee-jerk reaction of yours is misplaced. Steve is good, but he isn't beyond reproach.

[@joshatterbury2078]

In the context of a business and reputation. If Linus and LMG made that video and got significant backlash for something you believe to be "morally right" then he would be jeopardizing his own company's revenue which directly affects his employees. If you believe making content that could potentially ruin the livelihoods of your own staff is morally okay, in these circumstances where you don't even have significant proof, then clearly you need to take your employees livelihood into account. I think wanting to be "morally right and do the right thing" without significant proof in this day and age is not something to risk your employees' jobs over. A lot of lives revolve around LMG and you can't fault the man for protecting those interests. A business should protect employees before focusing on the moral voice of one individual.

[@trouty7947]

Read: LMG priotises income over consumers and peers. Which is fine, that's how a business works, making money above ethics. Just remember that next time they drop a sponsor

[@CharitonIosifides]

So LTT decided 3 years ago that they would not be making a video about Honey and the hijacking of affiliate links and dropping them as a sponsor. They kept it low key. They put a post on their forum. When Megalags uncovered the true scale of harm that was done to consumers Linus adressed it on WAN Show and explained his position and decision not to participate in the class action suit. One might disagree but it's his business. So, Steve and Gamers NeExus accuse Linus and LTT for not publishing a video 3 years ago. IT seems that the affiliate hajacking was common knowledge in the youtoube community back then. Could Steve and Gamers Nexus explain to us why they did not publish a video about Honey when they found out about it?

[@logan62097]

Because it wasn’t causing any impact to consumers, or at least at that time it wasn’t viewed that way. Steve clipped Linus out of context, he explained that if he made a video telling people he dropped Honey and to not use it everyone would rightfully be bashing him because it was viewed as a consumer friendly plugin for browsers. Steve’s vendetta against Linus is showing, so he took advantage of it and misrepresented Linus’s words, which was at best a honest mistake based on dislike of him or at worst him being purposefully dishonest to slander him.

[@ThePirateGod]

GN loves defaming LTT like an angry ex-girlfriend.

[@JamesBurdon-gu5yu]

Linus Defamed gamers nexus and hardware unboxed, Steve factually attributed LMG behavior to their actions thats not defmaming Your narative is esily debunked. LTT had the personal venedtta, when they smeared GN and Hardware Unboxed, as "Not doing tests" Meanwhile LTT was wrongly peforming almost all their tested and criminally defamed small.companies while taking donations from corsair and letting these influence the videos opinions, GN rightfully pointing out the completley unacceptable behavior of LTT and its 100+ employee group is not a vendetta when its truthful which it is. You like infotainment ober facts but thats not sreves problem.

[@_MasterLink_]

When I saw you join in on suing Honey (I've been watching the court records on this), I was eagerly awaiting your video on this.

[@Filth777]

Unfortunately, I am not in a position to support through the store right now, but I will certainly contribute when I am able. Thanks to all of you at GN for supporting consumers ❤️

[@noxious89123]

Vincent is great, such a good addition to these sort of videos!

[@Sonicstillpoint83]

Thank you guys so much for doing this. Having been pinched in a couple of different scams over the years for $3000 and another for $15,000. I’m extremely grateful for your taking action on behalf of those of us who didn’t have the resources to pursue things. If anyone is forced to answer for their scamming, then it will make others less likely to do so.

[@ILoveTinfoilHats]

Bro stop clicking on the hot singles in your area

[@DSP_Visuals]

Wait, there are hot singles in my area???

[@kaushalsuvarna5156]

Apart from the Linus bit, selling your own tee shirts over this, even as a joke, feels off

[@StellarJayEnthusiast]

It's what other channels do to support legal action, why would he not be allowed to do the same? Just don't buy the shirt.

[@kaushalsuvarna5156]

@StellarJayEnthusiast because he speaks of morality

[@theondono]

The amount of LTT fanboyism in the comment section is amazing, some of the worst excuses I’ve seen in a while…

[@nickhtk6285]

They've been riling each other up on reddit all week.

[@EKTORPTULLSTA]

@@nickhtk6285 Bring on the drama. LTT fanboys are so easy to troll.

[@throughlydruxy8501]

Steve sounds wildly egotistical regarding how he even talks about small creators. Bragging about working 100+ hrs/week is unsustainable, and taking Linus way out of context is a terrible look.

[@austincross445]

Leave LTT alone bro, it’s sad

[@JamesBurdon-gu5yu]

Protecting a massive corporation (Linus Media Group) With 100+ Staff that attacked smeared and vilified gamers nexus and hardware unboxed as "Not testing" is sad, bro LMG didnt leave smaller channels alone and their behavior being correctly attributed isnt an atack

[@Theliquidchaos]

@@JamesBurdon-gu5yu Close that zipper boy, your fanboi is hanging out.

[@ShadowDrakken]

I never understood how Honey conned anyone to install it in the first place. It's like the world collectively forgot how toxic and dangerous browser toolbars were.

[@stevetb7777]

What I like about Honey is it monitors products I'm interested in and emails me when there are price drops. This has saved me tons over the years.

[@ab2tract]

there are dozens of us! ....who remember browser toolbars and understand them as ~browser extensions~ now...

[@tooitchy]

it's not a browser toolbar

[@ShadowDrakken]

@@stevetb7777 obvious plant is obvious

[@ShadowDrakken]

@@tooitchy it behaves the same way, but thank you for helping me understand your brand of stupid.

[@knarrs]

Pretty bad faith to take another creators out of context just because you have a hate boner for them

[@dcaemfnr9618]

"Our investigative skills" yet you missed the first Honey controverse when it was found out that Honey was duping creators.

[@falconmick]

Awesome to see your support for consumers/creators and just slightly disappointing seeing the stab at LMG. The video and cause didn’t need to be muddied up with content creator beef. You may not see it that way but the rest of the world might not see things through the same lens as you. Thanks for all the hard work it’s appreciated dude, don’t over work yourself

[@puzzlepuzzlepuzzle760]

I’ve bought merchandise in the past and appreciated the excellent, objective reporting on NE and other topics. Steve, I’m leaving now-just disappointed. I know it won’t make a difference to you, but I believe there are many others who feel the same. We can see through the lack of objectivity when it comes to LTT. It’s sad to go, but honestly, it’s glaringly obvious.

[@ChrisPang05]

Support your ethical small (and large) creators!