You Don't Have to be Born in Ireland to Learn Irish Paganism - Lora O'Brien - Irish Pagan School

Lora O'Brien answers one of our most frequently asked questions (again) - do you have to be born in Ireland to learn Irish Paganism, or study at the Irish Pagan School?
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[@courtneyleach7356]

I’m grateful to hear that I don’t have to know of Irish ancestry to study Irish Paganism. I don’t have much to speak of but Ireland is a place that has drawn my attention for decades. Thank you making it clear.

[@invadertifxiii]

thank u so much for clearing this up on multiple levels, as an american i was adopted at 3 and my adopted family said no im not irish and i was just a little bit irish, my birth mother said "oh yes we are all irish" which through so much study and research of not only genealogy but regional history as well i now know thats not true for so many reasons. but i have always ever since i can remember felt this connection, this desire, this drawn to ireland and irish culture. so thank u for clearing up that not only do we not have to be born there to be irish but were not irish if we dont know the culture and history. it has always been my dream to visit ireland

[@heartlandheathen]

I love learning about the culture and beliefs of my Irish ancestors, but IPS and my own realization of my identity, language, common customs, etc.has taught me that as much as I love it, it has nothing to do with who I am and if I can't relate to the land the way they teach needs to be done then Irish Paganism is a closed practice to me. I am indebted to them for this understanding and the other bits of wisdom they offer to learn.

[@siriusfun]

Irish here. For many, it's a pilgrimage - something most other cultures welcome of their 'scattered flock'. This vid is one person's subjective opinion, and while I agree with her to an extent on some points, this is by no means an accurate or absolute Irish position.

[@IrishPaganSchool]

Absolutely. There is no one 'absolute Irish position' and for many the approach to a spiritual path is more of a calling and less of a casual choice. Yet if we don't address problematic rhetoric, such as the fiction of a singular genetic 'Celtic Race' as a fundamental baseline of any discussion, then how can we approach a more open understanding of Irish spirituality? Its always about approaching with respect and appreciation, not entitlement and appropriation. Thanks again for the comment - Jon

[@jamescunningham8092]

My understanding is that Europeans in general find the American preoccupation with ancestry a bit bemusing. I’m no psychologist, but I think among a certain group of Americans there is a sense of not really *belonging* here on what amounts to stolen land. Who knows, though. I don’t feel that way, but what I can say is that I don’t think I’d be interested in Irish paganism if I didn’t have Irish ancestry. I find it difficult to think of good reasons why that would be the case, though. Because I’m absolutely not Irish (and would never claim to be).

[@purpleicewitch6349]

I think many, or at least some, US people in the Irish/Scottish/other diaspora, feel the alienation from their (our) own culture, and feel like the common white consumerist US culture is empty and harmful. But at the same time, socioeconomic forces may not allow us to move to their lands of our ancestors (for those who even would want to). So it can feel like a lose-lose situation where a person tries to make do with whatever pieces of culture and identity they can get.

[@kirbycernosek4408]

Agreeing with you. I’m finding it very imperative for white Americans to root into something other than the myth of whiteness and its violent constructs. To remember who we are outside of whiteness.

[@spirit-sb2un]

I appreciate you sharing your feelings in this video and the follow-up. It isn't always easy to listen and sometimes it is hard to understand passed emotions and learned bad behaviors but it is always a learning experience if we let it be.

[@HaydenStefano]

Thank you for posting this. I have been really cautious about joining the school. I have found myself working heavily with Brigid and Cernunnos, and I have been researching as much as I can but I wanted to be respectful of the culture. I was afraid of offending or appropriating and have been asking them and my Irish ancestors for guidance on the best route for me to grow my spirituality further. Irish paganism has helped me heal so much and I wanted to take it further but I think now it’s just a matter of time. I need to finish my degree and then maybe start the actual school towards the end of summe. But for now I can start with the content you mentioned! Thank you for sharing and helping people learn 💚

[@idontbelieveyou]

I cannot begin to state the profound affect the IPS, and specifically Lora, have had on my relationship with myself and my relationship with Ireland... and my own identity. I have done a lot of soul searching since I first stumbled upon IPS. I am so grateful. After a lifetime of planning to move "home", I have found a contenting of my love for this land where I am. As this happened, I began to find on the borders of my little in town plot, Hawthorn, Yew, Rowan, and Foxglove. Just appearing. I have found an understanding and humility about how little I know and how much I have to learn about Ireland. I have begun to connect in ways that I never had before. I, for one, appreciate your brutal honesty. That ask has had a profound impact on my life. Bringing me both closer to my Irishness and my Americanness. Thank you Lora.

[@idontbelieveyou]

and also an understanding I am neither. I am ultimately spirit

[@susannautterback6815]

I understand what you are saying and I’m sorry hearing about ancestral backgrounds are tiring to some of you. My mother spent many hours studying our family tree and documented the findings with great care where we came from…that includes official documentation and speaking with relatives far and wide. I do not live in Ireland however I do have ancestry starting in Scotland and they migrated to Belfast Co. Antrim Ireland. From there many left and came to America via a ship which she documented the name (Can’t remember at the moments) through Ellis Island. Names are officially on the rolls. While I appreciate and respect your thoughts on this matter we are your cousins. I’m finding this to be a little condescending. I am starting to learn about traditions and spiritual lessons via your emails and also from 2 good friends who actually live and were born in the West of Ireland. It’s nice that you explained what you did but I’m a little disappointed in the delivery. Best Wishes

[@janetclaireSays]

I'm an American from Chicago where "being Irish" is a huge thing and usually has very little to do with actual Irish culture. It's a mixture of Americanisms, myths handed down by their Irish grannies from whomever emigrated to the US from Ireland and that all depends upon when and why they came over. Much of it is Hollywood fed. One obvious example is thinking that "corned beef and cabbage" is Irish food. But if I'm correct, the corned beef came from what was available at the time from Jewish immigrants who were already here. I think it would help Americans with Irish ancestry who live in places like Chicago to realize that they are a unique and very special culture in their own right, and probably even different from the descendants of Irish immigrants in NY and Boston, each unique. Don't try to BE Irish, just be what you are. I moved from Chicago to West Clare with my Dublin born Irish husband nearly 8 years ago. That whole journey actually began with a weirdly unexplainable attraction to Irish Traditional Music that led me to a visit to Doolin back in 1999. Jump ahead 9 or 10 years, knowing I was eventually moving to Ireland, I studied Irish at a casual Irish Language class at Chicago's Irish American Heritage Center - a lovely center which was created decades ago by mostly immigrants from Ireland working with Americans of Irish descent living in Chicago. I knew learning Irish certainly wasn't necessary and I didn't take the classes expecting at my age to become a speaker. But I at least wanted to recognize words, signage, the differences in the sounds of letters to English and I did it as a way to respect the nation I was moving to and its history. I am an American of Irish, Greek and German ancestry and I never considered myself an "Irish American" especially due to having a Greek last name and living in a part of Chicago where I stood out as NOT being "Irish." And not being Catholic in Chicago, where the two things are considered sacrosanct, there wasn't a hope in Hell that I would fit in anyway. But my last name is Burke now and I live in a cottage in the bog of West Clare so I have a rather well rounded range of experiences.... 😂 Just my two cents.

[@smallcorvid]

I understand that, I hail from Texas and moved to michigan after stuff got pretty scary so I consider myself more Michigander than Texan at this point. But a friendly howdy from me to you on this day :) Thanks for the video and resources! Doing the work, so much work lol but it's definitely worth it

[@cellis1066]

I think it's a search for connection that causes so many of us to proclaim any genetic basis for 'Irishness'. Especially in America with it's carefully neutral 'white' capitalistic culture. This continent was stolen from it's rightful owners and we need something to identify with. I do appreciate that you espouse a more open community at your school in direct difference to certain Norse pagans.

[@greendragonpublishing]

This is an incredibly important concept, and thank you for continually working to help us understand it.

[@-RONNIE]

Personally I think as long as someone is generally interested in the lore and culture I wouldn't imagine there be problem with anyone learning about the Irish.

[@shanehaire7633]

...thank you, Lora, for this.

[@pinkmoonrabbit2072]

i think this is where my conflict at reconnecting with irish culture comes in for me: the relationships. i see paganism as related to not only a relationship to community but also with the land as you said. And i just dont have that because i live in the usa. i do have a relationship with the land here, but it feels so personal, and trying to apply irish beliefs to it just feels awkward to me. So i dont know what to do, no matter what i feel cultureless and out of touch and i dont know how to get back. just stranded from all my ancestries. --i am curious if youre up for helping me understand, how is someone who has irish ancestry calling themselves irish a form of colonialism? there are a lot of people of varying ethnicities everywhere, children of immigrants, who arent as in touch with their culture but they still are of their people. how is it not the same for us? thank you

[@gaelle4328]

Example I’m of German descent but I’m not German … had I been first or second generation immigrant then it would have been diffrent …I do however have a strong connection to my German heritage which is part of me and I have Greek and Mexican friends who have lived a long time in Germany and they’ve absorbed the culture … “born in mexico but I consider myself honorary German” by absorbing culture on the ground and language ….think of it as Black - American and African not at all same cultural experience…. My personal take on that is African American thus Irish American it’s an identity of it’s own and fully valid personally consider myself honorary French ….. My personal take on the whole nationality thing is that it’s a mix of things living on the land, ancestry, cultural immersion , language, previous lives…. And I do understand where you are coming from ….spent so many years living abroad In Europe in diffrent countries and spent so much time if the cultures that if I would have to identify myself it would probably be born in x but consider myself primarily European secondarily x, As to your first question you can apply irish beliefs to yourself , you can practice Irish religion for yourself and there is enough American Irish culture to connect to that on the ground but adjust it when it comes to the land to something that feels right and real for that land …also if you look to the stories of the gods of Ireland they were emigrants and immigrants and heavily mixed in influences dna has showed darkskinned and then much later you have the norse influence which was massive and created Dublin, another such nation is Sweden which have had but huge emi and immigration and….. The US. These are just my thoughts, my two cents ….sometimes also when you go somewhere it just feels right you are home and it has nothing to do with nationality or other labels but my personal thought is sometimes for us who are more stubborn allowing yourself to feel at home if you want to and with respect to the land is a thing but some places are also not right whether you are born there or not. According to what you said you do have a personal connection to the land honor that as well as your spiritual side … we can be many things together that is makes us us.

[@pinkmoonrabbit2072]

@@gaelle4328 Thank you for your perspective. I think i see your point.

[@gaelle4328]

@@pinkmoonrabbit2072 And it is just that …a perspective =).

[@JosephineWitch]

Thank you for this x

[@bogwitchburke]

Ooo I feel this one! So this is embarrassing but I grew up (in the US) being constantly told how "Irish" I was, even down to percentages, CONSTANTLY as a point of pride and identity, I'm even named after my family name... I then lived in Galway then Belfast in my 20s and got that slagged out of me real quick! The conversation that destroyed that naive notion for good was "Oh yeah? Irish? Is that what it says on your passport?" I snobbishly responded something about the % of heritage in my blood...and they repeated it back to me in a Hitler voice 😅 100% roasted, that's what percentage I was 🤣 So GOOD ON YA, it's a hard message to deliver but absolutely vital. If you do lose any followers, I have faith that they'll come round in time. Keep up the great work, you're doing the world a true service 💕

[@susanridgway6149]

I just LOVE the Irish Pagan School and your work, Lora! Thank you so much for dedicating your time to helping us understand how the ways that we might think (as non-Irish folks with Irish heritage) are colored by colonialism and colonialist mindsets. It's one of the reasons I fucking LOVE this school - because we are welcome here, but we have to do the real work and unlearn the systems of oppression. There aren't enough people in the world doing this work. Thank you for expending your energy and time to educate us.

[@tmartino9863]

Well stated.

[@kellysardella928]

As always a clear & generous video, go raibh maith agat.

[@ShiningNoctowls]

Thanks for sharing; slán go fóill🌈

[@dannydonnelly8198]

She's racist against her own kin

[@IrishPaganSchool]

Not sure where you're getting that from? Define racism - prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized. The Irish are not a minority and we are in no way discriminating or antagonistic towards our own people. Quite the opposite in fact as we love our culture and its spirituality very deeply. We just acknowledge that where you're born, or whatever your genetics, everyone is welcome to explore and learn from the rich and beautiful culture that is Irish identity, as long as they do it with respect and appreciation. Thanks again Jon IPS

[@dannydonnelly8198]

@@IrishPaganSchool This channel continuously ostracizes the Irish diaspora, particularly those from the United States. I have formulated this opinion from watching multiple videos on this channel P.S I should have used the word "prejudice" Danny

[@annedavenport7502]

Ah. Being Irish is a living, breathing thing, not an inherited entitlement. Got it.

[@boglenight1551]

Then those who were descended from diaspora are without home. Our home cannot and should not be that of stolen land.