Is A Direct Drive Wheel Worth The Money?

Would I recommend it after a year of experience?
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[@boostbanause]

"The lower budget consumer grade wheels, they are affordable" Fanatec is on the list *laughs in broke*

[@XpVersusVista]

@TurboBOV yeah, a full CS setup is 850€ for base+wheel and another 350€ for the pedals. 1200€ for the bare minimum, without a mounting stand or a stick shift/handbrake. Getting into Sim racing really is brutal.

[@TomGS]

@@XpVersusVista thats why the g29 is king for beginners. Well built wheel and pedals, for the same price of a fanatec pedal set....

[@benderong4478]

@@TomGS g29 is a lifesaver. Cheap and well built. Sure it might not be the best but it has helped a lot of broke bois like me get into sim racing in the first place

[@BoomerBends]

Agreed. Fanatec is "boutique" level gear for me as well.

[@syko846]

@@benderong4478 it's a start for sure! I started with the g29 and eventually bought the V3 pedals and use it in conjunction with my g29 wheel. The pedals in my opinion are the first thing anyone should upgrade, if it's in their budget of course

[@Many_Mirrors]

I love how logitech g29 is considered "budget" and here I am saving up the money to buy it for months now..

[@behindthen0thing]

i guess you've failed to attain a decent paying job

[@OGbqze]

@@behindthen0thing nope, the government has failed us.

[@airconditioner130]

@@behindthen0thing it depends on where you live. I have a decent job and live better than most people in my country but it is not so easy to buy foreign stuff like the g29 let alone a DD wheel.

[@behindthen0thing]

@@airconditioner130 I can see that. Depends where you live with the taxes and prices are also higher in other areas for the same stuff

[@behindthen0thing]

@@benjaminreed6816 tell it to the guy who's been saving for months.

[@arekb5951]

Welp, I'll just buy a car then

[@whysoslow1999]

Do you want a shitty track car or any racecar but no g-forces? I'd personally get the any racecar but no g-forces. A good track car however... givemethatshit

[@arekb5951]

y e e t s For 3500-4000 pounds can get you ep3/fn2 Civic type R, E46 330i, E90 325i, Clio 3 RS, Megane 2 RS, Impreza WRX and the list goes on, plenty to choose from. I think I'd rather get one of those.

[@Pinzul91]

arekb5 They are different things, and a real car is really pricy when it comes to gasoline, motor oil, filters, and eventual repairs; and you can get killed in IRL with a car :P

[@MakeWhatever]

because petrol is so cheap these days...

[@arekb5951]

Angelo Gai yeah, but, I need a car anyway, and games cost too, all those dream packs, dlcs, new tracks, cars etc. If you want VR (which is really expensive) you also need a beastly PC to run it. Later on maybe you'd want some different steering wheel rims, racing seat and so on, I don't know man, both simracing and racing are expensive.

[@akmal94ibrahim]

I like how you hold your hand up saying sorry to the car in front after you punted him (0:42) as if the AI can see you. That's some fucking immersion right there.

[@doubletrouble786]

Equality for AI, they are real

[@SN13K3R]

Akmal Ibrahim hahaha yeah but it might be online

[@BoomerBends]

It was a German made car that he punted. He respectfully gesticulated , albeit discreetly, with the precarious implementation of an older (preferably forgotten) German hand signal. All in deference....of course. Sporting Lad, that Jimmer!

[@divejumpshooter6947]

@@doubletrouble786 Ask my buddy Elon he is convinced everything AI.

[@Patrick-zr8tv]

Had to pause the video because I couldn't hear him over my own laugh.

[@short-circut2262]

0:40 Classic Jimmy paying his respects

[@jedisaki730]

When the simulation feels that realistic xD

[@Fluffynator-hm5hq]

I do that when they let me walk 1st

[@justink3424]

Fluffynator9000 same

[@Sully2Funny]

0:40 when he raised his hand i died laughing 😂😂

[@ActNasty5]

Chew1ngSoup the immersion 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@EvryTime]

I think he forgot he was in a game and not on a real track.

[@Rennpanzer]

My Son races Karts. When I take him to the indoor, consumer places like K1, it's hilarious to watch him throw his hands up at the stuff the "amateur" kids do, lol. Ah, the cynicism of a 10 year old :-P

[@fiermanmuch]

hahahha i didnt notice that :D.

[@urbanacje4896]

that make me thought some idea, how about in 5G maybe future streaming driver video in his car in simracing, that will be so much effort and resources but.. it’s doable and take simracing another step closer to real racing.

[@MuffinRacing]

And here I am, using my G27 with my computer char and a Walmart Folding table lol

[@joshuacooper2636]

I've been there :p

[@stikupartist3698]

I started with a xbox 360 wheel on a cheap particle board desk and now I have cswv2 with the podium dd2 on the way.

[@sterrett9469]

@@stikupartist3698 thats what im trying to do now lol

[@WideAppeal]

I use a step ladder lol

[@love.ly.]

Exactly my setup rn

[@caseylockwood5512]

Pretty pricey until you start comparing it to real life organized racing. Then the sim stuff starts to not look so bad :P

[@NicolaosSoldal]

this guy cars irl

[@Tuulos]

Actually his sim rig is more expensive than some real life organized racing options. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkrace

[@NicolaosSoldal]

Yep sure for an initial layout, but pulling a car out to the track for 1 day costs more than just Fuel. Once you buy a rig you are "mostly" set for you price. It's the ongoing costs that kill you. I was spending upwards of $1000aud for a set of tires that would only last at best 3-4 race days. This is before fuel, track ticket, race gear. etc etc.

[@Sambigs9112]

Casey Lockwood I hope you were joking when you commented that

[@Danfunnyman1234]

There's a lot of budget racing leagues/clubs, especially if you include marine and off road stuff. Could easily build any number of budget race vehicles for $2k USD.

[@Eridu]

when jimmy's sim rig is worth more than your car

[@georgelunt6133]

Charkie bro my car was £50 😂😂

[@frostyvr9805]

Jokes on you. I don’t even have a car

[@ahmadmohamad6384]

Well he is making money off KZbin and there are no ongoing costs like petrol, road tax, insurance. So it is better than the car.

[@1000sofusernames]

@@ahmadmohamad6384 except you can't pull birds with a sim rig. Quite the opposite in fact.

[@dinosoarskill17]

u broke

[@Raprada]

Not even one minute into the video we goin' straight into some punterino

[@whysoslow1999]

what the fuck man i was like wait ive commented already?

[@Raprada]

Haha and I was like "when did I replied to my own comment?"

[@ilovedriving8288]

Fuck, i legit thought u were talking to yourself or some shit

[@nolifenerd2750]

Raprada oh you uploaded u/alphamaxnova1 f1

[@josephreynolds2374]

0:41 appologises to an AI driver

[@AngelLestat2]

The wheel is so realistic, that it simulates the AI opponent getting angry and hitting you in the face if you dont apologize XD

[@tro7e]

Media: Gamers are such an aggressive society!

[@user-wq9mw2xz3j]

@@AngelLestat2 for that price it better!

[@divejumpshooter6947]

To me and this is just my opinion. I have the Fanatec Direct Drive- The Tldr: if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't have gotten the expensive stuff- Why Did I? Because I had a Thrustmaster that was great and thought well if that is great then the Club Sport will be amazing. So I got that with the fancy pedals. I felt it was marginal improvement- Definitely not a massive improvement. I thought well I probably should go Direct Drive. did that and it is cool but I personally think it is over hyped. The other problem is they aren't as easy to set up. And like a restaurant that has too many choices on the menu, I end up wasting time faffing around with the various settings, because I keep thinking well, if I do this I'll finally see the gains everyone is talking about. For me it isn't a money issue, I work in Silicon Valley as an exec at one of the big well known tech companies. I mention this because I just want to make the point that I could if felt the need to buy an extremely expensive rig. In fact I had planned to do the wheelbase, steering wheel pedal set Next Level Cockpit with the Motion Platform and Traction platform. I stopped at the Direct Drive, Reverb G2 VR, Next Level GT Track. Why? Because none of it really made me faster I was already pretty fast and I spent more time goofing around with setting than actually racing. ********* So IMHO if you can't afford the fancy stuff don't sweat it. Don't burn calories thinking a very pricey rig will give you a major set up- OF course the Vblog types will have fancy rigs- either they get a price break, free or it adds value to their channel. I did just fine with the Playseat and ThrustMaster. If that is what you can afford use it, spend the time practicing not goofing around with settings. Good luck and most importantly enjoy the hobby.

[@whippetcanister4278]

Thank you for this break down! I don’t work in Silicon Valley but I do have a well paying job and was wondering if the fancy pro level direct drive was really worth it over a solid thrustmaster setup and I think u gave me the answer. I’ll pay enough to b competitive, but not dump excessive amounts for marginal gains👍

[@divejumpshooter6947]

@@whippetcanister4278 yeah man, get it. After using this for a year, I have changed my opinion a bit. It definitely is more adaptable and now that I know more about tuning it with the Fanatec software I think I am definitely better off. 10 months ago when I wrote that, I was still fairly new to it and hadn't really explored the possibilities. The price though was it was really frustrating at first to get it all set up and fiogure all that stuff out. The User Interface is terrible and nothing on it is intuitive. All of that said, I think if you have the thrustmaster and are happy with it. Stick with it and spend the money elsewhere or save it. Also, since I wrote that, I picked up a Mercedes 2020 AMG GT R with carbon ceramic brakes, renntech stage 3, so it is pushing around 750ish HP on California gas and that has taken up a good deal of my 'drive time'. I found myself wanting to do some hot laps on a weekend and I thought what the hell I'll just go for a drive in the AMG. :)

[@trippie_fabio3181]

my man ballin fr

[@virtualpaddock]

It's crazy how much the market has changed in the last few years when it comes to direct drive. Fanatec's line-up is direct drive only now, Logitech and Thrustmaster both have a direct drive in their line-ups, and several other brands like Moza or Simagic have established themselves with full direct drive line-ups. And they're far more affordable now as well, the Fanatec CSL DD with the Boost Kit is actually cheaper than a new CSW 2.5 was before the latter was discontinued - both have a peak torque of 8 Nm. My CSL DD will be arriving tomorrow, I'm really excited! Can't wait to finally feel what direct drive is like!

[@awakeandwatching953]

was looking for a more recent comment.. yep crazy the rate of development in the DD space.. i have a g pro and even after 6 months im still blown away by the experience

[@shaggy7599]

4:55 "This thing makes you a swole boy" Welp. I'm sold.

[@KingdomMinded417]

I cracked up when he said that!

[@MrPicklepod]

0:40 I love how you put your hand up to say sorry

[@josepartida1711]

I’m getting into racing sims now, and I had no idea how deep and complicated the setups were. Coming from the fighting game community where buying a $200 arcade stick is seen as crazy, the rigs for sim racing blow that out of the water. I think I’ll just stick with consumer grade wheels and pedals for now. Very informative video, glad I found this channel. 👍

[@yapira3d]

Red glove Jimmy talks wheel style his hair seems flowing and ready for action. Direct driving sim racer with a big heart and nice vibes in this virtual cockpit

[@hypermiraclepositivegirl2415]

When ur watching this video without being even able to afford a consumer wheel

[@alternatelives8559]

I've picked up several fully working wheel setups second hand for under 30$. Browse your local thrift stores and keep your eyes open!

[@5naxalotl]

if you don't have money, consider going very old-school with a non-force-feedback wheel. your brain gets very adjusted to imagining where the wheels need to be for a given visual input ... an advantageous situation engineers call "feed forward" [now obscured by the fact that the idiot sciences use the expression to mean "without feedback loops"]. and if anything, cheap force feedback is an impediment to your virtual immersion, an impediment to wrestle with for the party-trick benefit of "feeling things". foot controls are also very difficult to get right, and for the thrill of being "just like a real car" using typical pedals are very "not like a real car" and more like a discipline you pursue in service to your hobby, somewhat like learning to operate your tv with a broomstick. by comparison, hand-operated "pedals" make you feel like the kid who got the embarrassing christmas presents, but there is a bulletproof directness between how much brake & accelerator you want to apply and what you get. i was heavily into racing in the GPL era, and i had been spoiled by many hours in the old Atari arcade sim cabinets (Race Drivin'), way before their time with a legendary 70 volt direct drive wheel and really solid pedals. for me the comparion between a non-FF wheel and any FF wheel i could afford was a no-brainer. i raced for many years with a $30 thrustmaster hand-control wheel [albeit replacing the main potentiometer with an expensive one after it packed up, as those pieces of shit did very quickly. the replacement worked flawlessly forever] and i was waaaay faster than most of the people i raced with if you want to go *so* old-school that your electronic interface is a variable resister for old-school "game ports" (the last bastion of diy electronics that even a complete moron could literally build from scratch. i once had a rig made from a plastic dinner plate) ... well, computers don't have game ports anymore unless you install a 90's video card, so you need a usb game port, and i don't know about now but the dirt-cheap ones used to be pretty shit with terrible resolution. ultracheap wheels will all be usb-ready now i expect, though. still, some of them will have replaceable pots on the inside; and maybe you find an old one lying about this might all seem like a pretty lame two cents, but i know what it is to be broke forever, and *none* of the internet advice is pitched at broke dudes. in theory, computer driving is *cheap*. the most important thing is getting yourself driving with reliable gear that doesn't shit you. the joy of going from not racing to racing is ten times the joy you will get going from a simple bomb-proof controller to a direct drive wheel that sucks your dick and makes you a delicious sandwich. it's arguable that a huge screen is a better first upgrade than a FF wheel

[@BuddhaOfDarkness]

@@5naxalotl Wow!

[@squidwardo7074]

@@5naxalotl anybody who's used an xbox controller for racing knows all about this lol

[@math001]

Part 2 for pedals please, Jimmer! Every simracer knows that better pedals will make you faster but how much does a pedal set like yours make someone faster vs something like a Fanatec load-cell pedal set? It's one thing that I have always been thinking about when I'm planning possible upgrades to my current sim rig.

[@iseeq72]

Nova Best go for V3 pedals from Fanatec, for the money the best you can get... I would include stiffer buffer elements (can be bought extra) so that the pedal travel is lower - in most race cars the travel is almost nothing and brake force is better memorized in terms of force I put on it. I have both the V3‘s and the Ultimate pedals from Heusinkveld. Built quality is similar but ultimates are triple the price - I like them but it is not everyone‘s cup of tea, because the specs are like in a LMP car, so one has to get used to it.

[@getsideways7257]

Yeah, a load-cell brake pedal might be the most effective singular upgrade you can go for.

[@yammmit]

Daves sim racing Channel I’ve seen him answer plenty of questions and he’s even answered a few of mine. Sounds to me like you’ve got a personal grudge against Jimmer.

[@Dwarfy2k]

@Daves sim racing Channel If you desubbed then why are you here?

[@Dwarfy2k]

@Daves sim racing Channel Sorry but I don't understand your sentence there

[@Fred13Mr]

Your lisp isn't bad at all and the way you speak and deliver information, totally makes up for it!

[@Spoderskrillex]

Inb4 the fact that you're driving on Zolder overshadows the entire point of the video

[@fartvader84yearsago8]

Spoderskrillex Zolder and a BMW M3

[@HoweDoYouDo1999]

Hahahahahaha that’s the game name there is no freakin way there is no way😂😂😂

[@brianrasmussen2956]

In my opinion, better gear will definately make you faster. Better feedback makes for more consistency and hence make your laptimes faster. The better the pedals, wheel, pc and so on, the faster you will be able to go. It just makes sense I think. More emersion will mostly (not always) make you faster as you are better able to percieve what's actually going on. At least this is what I have experienced. Keep up the good work Jimmer :-)

[@fancyslayer99]

I saw this video years ago and never thought I would justify spending this kind of money. Here I am, years later and a much healthier wallet. Now I’ve got a TR80 and Simucube 2 on the way all because of you Jimmer. Thank you for introducing me into the hobby of a lifetime.

[@islandmore]

I bought a cheap 3 point harness for my seat to use in VR. Seeing the belts in game and feeling them is great and would recommend it for the immersion.

[@duomaxwell8803]

To those who keep parroting "I'd rather buy a real car", here's some questions: - Can you buy a luxury car for under 10k? - Gasoline, maintenance cost. How much are they throughout a car life cycle? - Traffic. Where can i drive at max speed whenver i want? - Real life accident. How much do you think your body and your life worth? And if you drive at high speed and your life is worthless, how much do other people's lifes worth?

[@MichaelPohoreski]

duo maxwell Yes, you can buy a used _sports_ car for less then 10K --> **Mazda Miata MX-5** Sim racing is a joke WRT to G Forces. That said, Fun/$ is priceless with simracers and 99% safer then the Real World TM.

[@T-y-39]

Or a BMW

[@toobad2917]

"Traffic. Where can i drive at max speed whenver i want?" just live in germany 4Head

[@TheInsaiyan]

@@MichaelPohoreski muh g forces.

[@riyanazhar9086]

I can't take my girlfriend out for a drive in a sim rig

[@ntmntm1]

Man, I actually felt bad I've been watching your vids for a while and never subbed or liked any. Fuck, this amount of passion should be recognized.

[@piccoloatburgerking]

I'm kinda new to sims, so i wasn't expecting *THAT* kind of price range! Holy shit that's over 3200 dollars roughly, way out of my range!

[@markus9415]

Don't worry. A professional rig won't make you a better driver. The fastest sim racers dont have the best of the best gear. A f1 playseat with fanatec gear and screens so a complete setup for around 2500 dollars ( Excluded game pc since you also have options for a xbox or playstation ). Don't be discouraged since the price ranges for simulators go from 350 dollars to more than a million...... ( Pro simulators F1 teams use for example ).

[@markus9415]

​@Bounze The cheapest wheel is the Trust GXT 570 for about 30 dollars and trust me those are toys for kids, not to simrace with seriously :). A bit of quality starts at a higher pricerange then 30 to 200 dollars. Here is a golden tip... Never buy a second hand wheel...

[@ricomotions5416]

@@markus9415 i got lucky with my second hand g920

[@markus9415]

@@ricomotions5416 Hard to find but yes tthere are wheels that people bought and have used 2 or 3 times after that it went back into the closet. Yup look for those if you decide to go second hand :)

[@markus9415]

@@idontneedameme3665 Good for you :)

[@BuddhaOfDarkness]

Sounds a great experience but I've had 3 real MX5's for that money. My Logitechs do ok when I wish to race at home all the same.

[@LaatiMafia]

Meanwhile I'm still more than happy playing Dirt Rally (2015) with my 12-year-old Driving Force GT.

[@leonzielke4640]

I used the same wheel for long time. Now I bought the g29 because the driving force isn't compatible with Xbox and ps4. I don't think it's a lot better. It's just really silent lol that's it

[@bett431]

Mine just broke while playing the project cars 2 demo...

[@superclaw900]

My man I'm still using my driving force pro from gran turismo 4

[@roasty80]

@@superclaw900 same. Great on PC with emulation

[@kiisseli1337]

I had Driving Force Pro over 10 years, and now G29 (it was 99€ brand new in 2017). I also bought the shifter (useless for me) and improved the pedals. I don’t think G29 is much, if any better. It’s less powerful actually. Pedals are better.

[@bigfella6629]

I still have my Logitech momo FFB wheel, going on 10 years old.

[@angryginger791]

Also, I love when people talk about the costs of sim equipment and say you might as well just buy a real race car. If you think the cost of even high end sim racing gear is anywhere near real racing costs, then you don't know shit about racing. Buying a car is the cheapest part. You'll also need a trailer, a vehicle to tow it, safety gear like fire suit, etc. Then try totaling up just one season's worth of tires, brake pads, fuel, oil and other fluid changes, repairs, upgrades, track fees, lodging for race weekends, etc. I was looking to join a 24 Hours of Lemons team, and for one year of dues I got my computer, Oculus, iRacing sub + lots of cars/tracks, G29 and Fanatec Clubsport V3 pedals. If I had gone with the real racing, I'd get maybe 5 hours of track time per weekend, for 4 weekends per year. So let's be generous and say 30 hours of track time per season. In my sim rig, I've done more than that in 1 week, and I don't have to spend hours and hours in the garage, working on the car in between. Not that it's not fun to wrench on cars, but you know what I mean. If you want seat time on a budget, sim racing is definitely the way to go 100%.

[@brotangyoust9252]

Yeah but your just sitting in your room. That's not the same experience at all....and well worth the cost. Here you can join a local club and get a few hours track time for 50 bucks in any car you want. You don't have to have a special built race car to have fun racing in real life. I can get to a track, race and be back home for 100 bucks.

[@thefreezezone4583]

dude, these are video games, no where near real racing LMMFAO

[@20spray1]

People always underestimate sim racing. It's nowhere near as good as the real thing for sure, but it is by far the best bang for buck way of improving and maintaining your skills for the real world track day

[@mrnice88x]

The amount of money it cost JUST TO RACE over a few years is more then a real race sim setup. I'm talking paying just to use the track, NOTHING ELSE.

[@masoncoleman6462]

Doesn't compare to real life though does it and why not build a road legal track car

[@rafitamma2050]

i love how jimmy apologizes and does a hand gesture to the virtual driver

[@TheDragonfly256]

There are washing machines with direct drive motors cheaper then those wheels...

[@lightfeather9953]

I wonder if it's economy of scale that's the biggest reason for the cost difference?

[@NerfWarsJuelich]

@@lightfeather9953 i reckon r&d costs as well as safety mechanisms. Fine tuning the product so that it doesnt break peoples hands or shut down your pc with its interference probably takes a huge amount of testing and stuff. The parts the manufacturer needs to buy are already built at sufficient economies of scale for different applications.

[@lucasrem]

TheDragonfly256 Both my Dish and regular washing machine do have fancy Heat exchangers $500, build for millions, so ultra cheap. fancy PWM motor, max $5? If i need to buy parts, i need more money! Not so many people buy < $80 wheels, > $80 till $800 toy level wheels.....???? if nobody buys them, they are fancy!

[@MichaelSuperbacker]

convert a washing machine motor to your racing wheel. fun DIY project! :)

[@lucasrem]

@@MichaelSuperbacker Not that smart? When everyone need it in their homes, its cheap! This wheel?

[@reviewforthetube6485]

It's crazy that Jimmy had a better dd wheel here then he does now lol.

[@pepkooij]

Can you please play Automobilista more often? I love those videos

[@askanracing]

2500€.. thats like a set of tires :D

[@chrisrobinson9899]

I hope not... Should be 2-3 sets. Even wide set. Unless tires are expensive in the EU?

[@Kikkarapaa]

My set of 14" cheapo tires was 220€ :'D

[@chrisrobinson9899]

Right? My dude getting ripped off somewhere.

[@askanracing]

Haha, i mean, not your average tire but Trofeo R is between 300-600 per tire ;)

[@dragbag1616]

For my mx5 that's 6 sets of semi slicks with money to spare for gas, jfc. The right tyre size/profile can save you a lot of money

[@DaraM73]

Yeah Jimmy, you’ve become a professional broadcaster too. Really should consider doing TV

[@SnapquesterMage]

This is very good information to know! As an enthusiast, but not over the top sim racer, it seems a direct drive is probably overkill for my goals and needs. Seems like I would love having one, but I don't race enough or with enough seriousness to really NEED the cost and hassle associated with a direct drive. Very informative and helpful, and presented in a very non-biased way (as opposed to OMG U NEED DIREC DRV!!!!). Keep up the great work!

[@JBEAN]

hearing you say "swole boy" just made my morning!

[@OhItsThat]

You should have talked about DD wheels and clipping. That’s the biggest benefit of a DD I think.

[@wylie2835]

Clipping isn't a problem with well designed FFB. That is more of the softwares fault than the wheel.

[@Mythricia1988]

Clipping is certainly NOT a software fault. Clipping happens because the wheel cannot provide enough force. You can reduce the max force so that clipping does not occur, but now you lose detail at the lower end instead. OR you can attempt to compress the min and max range alltogether, but now you lose resolution, i.e. you lose fine detail. It's the exact same problem cameras or displays face with dynamic range. In fact it's *is* a dynamic range issue. You can compress the range, but just like with a screen or a camera compressing the dynamic range, you lose resolution, i.e. you lose detail. The only way to actually get all the detail across the whole range, is with higher dynamic range. As in, HDR, same feature you see in new TV's. What's the feature that makes a TV "HDR" compatible? It's that it can go very very bright. It's perfectly analogous to a steering wheel being able to produce a very high amount of force. A DD wheel won't clip, because it has more than the force required. It can produce every force in the entire range. It's a HDR wheel, if you will.

[@wylie2835]

The software does not request a force. The software sends a value between 0 and 1. The motor then uses that number and applies: its maximum force * the coefficient supplied. Your understanding of how the software and hardware works is fundamentally wrong. What you are describing is not clipping. But rather basic FFB settings all games have. These are generally called thigns like Tone or FX. These are things the user gets to decide and up to personal preference. Its deciding between detail vs how heavy the wheel feels .DD wheels just have a greater ability to supply detail and weight because the amount of force it can supply is far greater than that of a lower end wheel. So you do not have to make as much of a sacrifice. (In fact most DD can give you the weight of a real wheel + detail) Unless you want a wheel heavier than it should be. Then you can do the very same thing and smother the detail for a weightier wheel even with a DD. Clipping is caused when the supplied coeffecient is > 1. It creates a situation where the wheel does not respond at all because it was given an invalid number. This should never happen and is a computational error on the software engineers side. A DD wheel CAN clip for the same reason a belt or gear driven wheel can. if the co-effecient the software sends is > 1. A DD wheel cannot produce a force greater than it's maximum force either. This is simply not physically possible. As a max force is the max. Regardless of what is between your wheel and motor. DD wheels are not magic.

[@Mythricia1988]

What you just wrote does not really contradict anything I wrote. I described clipping the way people conventionally talk about it in the sim racing community in general. People don't care if it's a matter of firmware or software that causes the clipping - the solution suggested by people is the same regardless - reduce the strength of your FFB. Which is the point of what I wrote - reducing the strength of the FFB is not a solution, as it compresses the dynamic range, and provides worse detail, worse resolution. To actually get better results without "clipping" - you need higher peak force, which a DD wheel provides. High frequency peak forces are literally the definition of "detail" in the context of a force feedback system. DD wheels are not magic, but they are the solution to a problem that exists in all FFB systems. They expand the dynamic range available, such that you are not forced to either clip the high or low end (just like highlight clipping in a photograph), nor forced to compress the dynamic range, which reduces resolution, i.e. detail. It's literally analogous to cameras and displays - high (white) and low (dark) clipping, dynamic range, it's the exact same concept. And the solution in both cases is the same - expand the range. It's why professional cameras boast many "stops" of dynamic range, it's why HDR video requires new TV's that can display higher peak brightness... Because it expands the range. And that is the only way to map a high detail input to a high detail output.

[@OhItsThat]

This is why Jimmy should have brought it up;)

[@avahxnley685]

Please do a video beating Scott McLaughlin's 2:03.831 at Bathurst

[@thebruzdog]

TheHitlist72 been practing for days and can only get down to a 2.07 that is nuts

[@enginefailure2582]

I did a 2:04:140 in PCars 2. Had a few assists though...

[@avahxnley685]

Engine Failure I managed it ince in GT Sport but I was in the new F1 car so I think I was cheating technically

[@bradymeyers5652]

@TheHitlist72 Easily done in iRacing.

[@brandono6718]

I got 1:59:8 in pc2 a while back, pc2 doesn't represent v8 supercars very well lol

[@bengelman2600]

Your knack for subtle self-deprecation is legendary.

[@falcon2081]

Jimmy common man it's so easy to update the firmware. Don't be lazy. You are missing out on some great features and improved FFB detail.

[@NotTheMaestro]

I bought my son (11yr old) a wheel last year, it was £650 which I thought was crazy, fast forward a year and I just bought him the Podium F1 and a set of Sprints. I’ve got his old when and now I’m thinking of upgrading. It becomes an addiction

[@masterg9545]

I would love to see some lap times side by side on a few tracks with G29 vs Fanetek vs Direct Drives. Maybe some ghosted setups if games have that like the old Forza days 🤠

[@bbvibrabb]

Mr Jimmy, your self deprecating humour brings great joy to me

[@leeboy2k1]

He seems a cool dude, but you sound in the closet.lol

[@FPSMeraker]

Direct drive seems more affordable these days. Fanatec CSL DD 8Nm costs €500 and it feels fantastic.

[@matthewwhite5158]

Is that enough to break my wrists? If not, how much more do I need to pay for that feature?

[@hamzerpanzer]

​​​​@@matthewwhite5158Definitely not, you need to go for one of their podium editions which start at like $1000 for the motor alone

[@kenk4158]

I've done the math. I've averaged 38.3 hours of racing per year with the G27 and playseat I bought for $500 ten years ago. 38 hours in a year doesn't make it a great investment, but it's never gone obsolete in that time, and honestly, the wheel looks and feels brand new after 383 hours. The only trouble I have is now I'm an old man and the thin cushion on the playseat hurts my back.

[@paulhope3401]

I own a G27... I've tried a top end DD wheel at virtual sim racing and while it does provide finer FF detail, its definately not worth the premium for me. My bargain £100 G25 provides at least 90% of the FF detail for a tiny fraction of the cost of a DD wheel. For rich or hardcore Sim racers only...

[@T25de]

been subbed for a while, back when you were not so pro! happy to see your channel grow man! keep up the good work. i have been with out my sim rig for just over 6 months. moving to a new home has taken all my time and ive yet to build a new rig. i live vicariously through you in sim racing regards!

[@LupinxJigenTTV]

Man that whole setup costs more than a bunch of cheap used cars. I'm sure its sick but I'm way to broke for this, maybe one day 😅

[@oracolul1]

trickyhero haha my 05 vectra was £700 and I use it daily to get to work, 80 miles round trip haha I could buy 4 5 of those and be good for a few years to get to work no matter what lmao

[@daltonbedore8396]

Sergiu Barbu but thats BORING

[@theglitch312]

Dalton Bedore, for this kind of money you can buy a banger, kit it out with rollbars and race irl. These wheels are fantastic, but I'm not sure they'll be able to compete with driving a shitbox around a real life track.

[@SimRacingVeteran]

Rick- crash that shit box and the fun is over. The shit box will need tires and fuel and trust me tires don’t last long when you’re driving it like you stole it. I get it racing for real would definitely be more fun, but the sim racing is endless fun after your initial investment.

[@theglitch312]

Armyguy864, that's fair. I just think a ~4000,- dollar investment is not something for me if it's not for racing irl. I just find it funny people spend 50,- bucks for a sim and spend maybe 100 times as that on the equipment 😅 If I had the money to I would do it as well though 😬

[@melody3741]

I don't know if that was actually a genuine concern for you if you were just being silly, but your "lispy" voice is very nice, very pleasant to listen to, and also cute.

[@Joey-el7ud]

ZOLDER

[@Frankestein01nl]

is our word for "attic"

[@itstommyv6895]

ZOLDER

[@conradmyers132]

I hate zolder

[@MrJeroenreyns]

i love how Jimmer raises his hand at 0:40 to say sorry to the car he drove into xd

[@mkay8334]

I do perfectly fine with a $99 with a Thrustmaster wheel, but I would easily take a better one if I had the money

[@rickervine]

The best feature of the servo motor is the fact that, it's position can be determined to a 1000th of an inch. It's electronics reads it's position. It does not need to cost so much.

[@DGEESIO]

i will put it as simple as it is. top end wheels you paying for build quality and realism. they dont make you faster. most world records are done on cheap logitech wheels. so if you buying a top end set up to become faster. no point ! if you buying for realism and build quality . then yes.

[@HerreDePerre]

DGEESIO no world record is done on a cheap logitech wheel

[@hugolbr2498]

@@HerreDePerre some world records are held by controllers lmao, don't start gatekeeping

[@HerreDePerre]

Hugo Lbr on simcades for sure. I mean iracing or r-factor

[@roasty80]

Yet still have grounding issues

[@inox1ck]

I have a 20Nm motor mounted on a desk made of massive wood and plank wood. The wheel sits on a 30x45 10mm steel plate and held by 2 x M8 bolts and can be removed completely within seconds. The steel plate is attached with double side adhesive tape but it hasn't moved at all since I've installed it. Even on the highest setting the desk has no problem with holding the wheel. It only makes some noise when you crash. So if you want a simple desk you can reinforce it with metal plates to make it more rigid.

[@deknegt]

Jimmer just talked to me without ever moving his lips! Jimmy = Professor X, confirmed!

[@casenix]

At :45 I love it he bumps the guy and puts his hand up to say sorry like he can see him!! Haha he immersion is real!!

[@thakrak]

Honest question to you simmers out there: I find myself sometimes reducing FFB on my G29, and still find it stronger than my road car. Why would I want a wheel capable of producing 10 times de power?

[@BigAirNo1]

thakrak It's about headroom, means you can run the FFB very low on a direct drive thus preserving motor power for all the other effects such as vibration and understeer effects etc. Everything is more "direct" and detailed as a result. Whereas on an average wheel base, most of the motor power is used for self aligning torque therefore, there is far less detail in all the other effects because the wheel is out of puff by that point. Although I find my CSL set up is a good balance across the board for the money. Probably one of the best wheels you can get before going direct drive.

[@thakrak]

@@BigAirNo1 Dude, thanks, this is what I was lookking for :)

[@user-wq9mw2xz3j]

@@thakrak because its more fun and increases immersion. More realistic? No, not unless driving old cars. But since you dont feel g forces and anything under you in a sim, you need to feel more from the wheel. Shouldnt compare racing simulator to real car 1:1

[@viktoregerszegi1101]

7:07 emi=electromagnetic interference part is new for me. Thanks to share this!

[@klemzale5370]

First of all, nice setup, now to my question: How does your setup handle when you are taking it for drifting ? not your regular 2000hp Forza car, but the more real life counterpart cars, less power, more about stability of chassis and suspension and the actuall driving techniques (watch japaneese drifting for that) so how is your setup on drifting ? im kinda interested. I fuggured out quite some time ago that a track car will ruin my wallet in the long term so this is certainly a better investment (i would be spending around 15k for a track car eventually + excluded running costs and repairs)

[@Arverni_Ursi]

Thanks for the advice my dude. Now I know that in order to start playing iRacing, I’d better buy a CSL Elite for now and save money for later on ( when the kids will have left the house, for example ) to build a proper OSW setup in one of the freshly emptied bedroom 😊

[@GmoLargey]

Anything at that price should not need troubleshooting with regards to software, having to spend hours, per car, per track, just to get it to actually feel real is way too much effort. That commitment will unlock the full potential in the average consumer wheel, shit I'm perfectly happy with a g25, can't hear it in vr and with mods to the force feedback clipping it feels ok too. The main thing that would put me off is the software that's sending signals to the thing, tyre slip in every single pc sim is completely off, i don't care for spending any more time trying to correct it than I already have, want to drift, you need tyres that are unrealistically crap on grip... you can't drive on the limit without it biting back unrealistically and then just taking all control away, a car shouldn't keep sliding 1/4 mile even though you are doing 30mph, this has been the same since gtr2 and I don't understand why. This alone pisses me off with pc sims having a wtf? Moment where the sim just goes into dumb mode and decides that you have full grip again mid slide despite the speed and angle of the slide, this is annoying even on a g25 as it's not how steering should feel in that situation suddenly acting against the angle of the car, if that condition was on your wheel that's been set too strong to feel better on the straights, the problem is suddenly not only annoying but dangerous. The kit is great, but not really consumer friendly at all like you say, far too much for me to spend, I've done it before adding track ir headtracking, buttkicker, modified pedals ect, this was way over 10 years ago and I sold it all, bought an mx5 and done it for real ever since, got a g25 for £50 to go with my vr setup now and despite everything that's plenty, a buttkicker would be nice again but I remember that being a pain and again having the same dialing in issues and problem with spikes due to random signals for the Sims, I suppose I'm getting old I just want things to work now, back to the point of software still letting it down even though the hardware has progressed massively.

[@chrisrobinson9899]

I think the best comparison car wise would be to compare a DD with a crate/pre-built motor. It never comes with a car, it doesn't come with an install guide and frankly it does still require professional tuning + various car parts to "Hold the power" of the motor once you do drop the motor into your shamble of a mustang etc. Yet crate motors have a market and a large one at that, where as you can probably get the whole car for the same price. Take my E46/S52. A stage 3 complete built crate S52 from Lang is about $15K, yet I purchased my E46M originally for ~13K. The the built motor will last 200K miles and push about 420whp out of the box + attaching a turbo (The whole point) will easily push 800whp+ on a bad day. Yet my car, fully loaded and running well when it was stock, is still a fair 285whp and does just fine on the track with good tires and a tune up right?

[@mcbarney]

1. The software(firmware) he is using is way old. The new software is the bomb. 2. You are probably playing poor sims, try rFactor2 and see how the sliding is spot on. 3. Spikes mean you had bad wiring/connections somewhere causing emi issues, not random signals from the sims lol. 4. Any competent male can purchase a simucube and have it running in their favorite sim within the day, it's not at all difficult and support is fantastic, if you do stumble. 5. Anything worth doing in life requires effort.

[@BoleDaPole]

I'd just fly one of the devs out to set it up

[@goldy2878]

K

[@sijonda]

2 years later and I'm looking into an entry direct drive to replace my G27 when it breaks. I've had it since it was new and it still works fine. I'm using an obuto setup as my only computer desk. Having some that can do literally everything at the same time is priceless.

[@matejmihalik848]

Keep the csl dd on your radar.... 350eu for 5 nm amd 480 eu for 8 nm

[@lucaguida4286]

"Lispy mess that is my voice" :(

[@goebann4856]

Congratulation on the real-life experience with the McLaren 570S GT4 race car and the rally car experience in Wales!

[@JFein]

I hope the answer is “yes,” because I just bought an Accuforce.

[@knivulf]

Got an Accuforce myself and I absolutly love it :) although simcommander can be a bitch to finetune.

[@TheInsaiyan]

Yes. Feel good about your purchase. As long as you enjoy simracing you will have a benefit. Once you reach 2K hours in your DD wheel the price per hour is actually peanuts hehe

[@JFein]

Kaiserlicher König haha, one year later, I can tell you it was definitely worth the money.

[@user-eb8ti2vf8t]

This was the first Jimmy Broadbent and first simracing video I ever watched, good times

[@revilooo9562]

My g920 sounds rubbish now 😂

[@juliantaffa4089]

I still believe that the Logitech G920 and G29 are the best wheel & pedal combos for the money.

[@markbarker8376]

I see driver whit Xbox controller much faster of guys of 6000 professional cockpits, for the realism ok pratic side unuseful.

[@robertt9342]

Revilooo , fine send it to me, I'll pay for shipping.

[@xSP3CTREx]

As soon as you said you need to mount the safety shutoff by your feet in case your wrists get broken made me set on the path to build one XD

[@dxme9190]

Jimmy what do you think about the new Fanatec direct drive wheel?

[@MntRprznt]

Exactly! What do you think about the upcoming DD1 from Fanatec? I'm biased towards it, its a consumer product with a custom built motor. And is priced right.

[@dxme9190]

M3nt2 R3pr3z3nt Yeah, how much does it cost? I didn't looked at the price yet

[@MntRprznt]

Dead_ Vendeta666 Its called Podium DD - its 1k or 1,5k for the base depending of model.

[@dxme9190]

M3nt2 R3pr3z3nt ok looks like I need to save some money. Thanks

[@martinmhs4173]

I liked it when you put your hand up after you hit that car. Keep it real!

[@mtakala82]

Still using MMOS, not the superior SimuCUBE firmware?

[@thehuggingsimmy1765]

Love how a thrustmaster is considered budget while i've had to save up for months to get mine ;w;

[@jeffchapman1962]

Im getting World records Dirt 2.0 with my old logitech G29 no worries

[@GlitteringToothpaste]

Yeah I got my first world record on f1 2018 with my g29

[@SN13K3R]

Jeff Chapman respect!

[@TheInsaiyan]

You're not buying a DD Wheel to break records. You buy it for the feel and you gain consistency. I bet a good sim Racer like you would still benefit in the long term with a DD wheel.

[@jeffchapman1962]

@@TheInsaiyan Yer My G29 has broken again 3rd time tiny wires in side twist off and I have re soldiered them back on twice before.. but I am over it and going for a proper wheel this time . direct drive is very pricey though. going to be hard to explain to the wife why I must have one

[@TheInsaiyan]

@@jeffchapman1962 lmao, well it's not a must have tho. CSL elite is already a solid step up from the G29. Pedals are more important tho, loadcels. Don't have to worry about dust with them as well.

[@kokoaliburudenda7107]

Jimmy is so nice he even apologizes to the IA.

[@lorbet2419]

Great game seats

[@starkalarm]

Would be great if fanatec could let you have one of there new DDW to use for a while and do a review. Would really like to know if there software would be a lot easier to setup and use than the trouble you went through. Keep up the great videos. I upgraded from Thrustmaster TX to a TS-XW and I’m glad I did. For me it was a huge step forward. Now looking to buy a proper rig to sit in etc.

[@falcon2081]

Jimmy why are you using MMOS? There is the Simucube Firmware that replaced it. Go update your OSW.

[@Jimmy_Broadbent]

Laziness tbh

[@mcbarney]

You mention how the software is a challenge, yet the new software which is great doesn't get a look in???

[@DennisKarlsson]

If you feel like testing the new firmware you'll get tons of help at the granitedevices forums. For me it was a huge improvement of details of the FFB going from MMOS to SimuCUBE firmware.

[@trillbo]

Jimmy you owe it to yourself to try the new software out, it makes a huge difference IMO. Very easy to use as well.

[@ChrisShelton024]

Jimmy, you HAVE TO do the SimuCUBE firmware. It’s a game changer, and very easy to upgrade. It’s night and day, head and shoulders above MMOS

[@daltonbedore8396]

possibly the best intro ever on this one

[@zainhaider8362]

Can you do a similar review for the (loadcell) pedal set you use compared to the consumer grade (potentiometer) pedals.... Also which is more important a direct Drive Wheel or upgraded (hydraulic or loadcell) pedal set

[@Pick_Lock]

Zain Haider I'd say nice pedals are more important than a nice wheel, as you have plenty of iRacing pros that still use a g27 wheel, but they are probably modding the pedals at least to get more of the load cell feel.

[@zainhaider8362]

@@Pick_Lock that's good because I want to pair my G25 with the heusinkveld pro pedals.

[@oscarsorensen210]

Watched a few videos on your channel lately and I'm getting hooked you've got a sub! Ive recently cleaned the cobwebs off my old g27, getting back into it!!

[@TheFrontyer]

Crazy how bottom range then was 1200 but now its 200-400

[@kingjasko]

not DD, though, cheapset DD is around 400-500

[@TheFrontyer]

@@kingjasko chepest DD is $200 (Cammus c5 and fanatec CSL are both avaliable for $200)

[@mementomori4972]

Yeah, like you can compare his 30Nm with the bottom range 5Nm you get today. Get a grip.

[@whurvs]

⁠@@mementomori49725nm max torque for some of the DD wheels is a joke considering 5nm max torque means your getting like 3.5-4nm on average and there a huge amount of clipping. I personally believe the bare minimum for a dd wheel to be worth it is to get something with 8nm+ and even then it still feels a tad underpowered, if 8nm is all you can bare to save up for go for it but I went from a g29 to a fanatic ClubSport DD+ just keep your g29 or whatever poor quality gear/lower end belt wheel you have until you can get something with 10nm+

[@UhhhhhnooOOo00oO]

Your job. Exactly. Well explained. Direct drives are amazing, if you can afford it.

[@jlgordon96]

Gonna buy a direct drive base to play forza

[@viewingchannel7929]

Lol

[@RVRCloset]

Thank you for the really good and honest video Jimmy! I just got a new wheel base, and do to the cost and setting up thing for DD wheels, I think I will be very happy with my Fanatec CSW V2.5 for a long, long time! :)

[@jeeves_uk]

You can buy 2 used Volvo v70's for the price of the OSW base

[@BenjaminKarslund]

Jeeves Rothschild Year and use thousands of money to make those two cars actually drive well. I get nothing but trouble if I follow your suggestion, but nothing but joy if I go for the wheel.

[@crawfordbrown75]

But you probably couldn't race them reliably for hundreds of thousands of miles with the same kind of engagement

[@MrTimdtoolman1]

Great vid Jimmy! I like these type of vids way more than the live ones personally. Keep up the great work.

[@annadelsiena]

"Professional Sim Racer" Does that ever feel normal to say for you? ;)

[@gollese]

There is e-sports today in racing aswell so yes.

[@Bob-Jenkins]

If I was back in high school and heard that term "Professional Sim Racer" from then on it'd be the single and only answer to "What do you wanna be when you grow up?". I could imagine the student/career counsellor's response being a blank stare with a baffled "A what now?" High school ended in the 90's for me so that could be part of it. But seriously if I'd known this was even going to be a thing I'd have studied Mechanical and Electrical Engineering then built up a Fanatec type business with a family of peripherals along with a gearbox that would replicate the feeling of a real-life manual or Dog Box. I can only imagine that would fit perfectly with VR.

[@mrsayang]

How can you be a "Professional Sim Racer"? Can he live from that? It sounds weird for me, grown up in the 70ies and 80ies to hear that someone can earn money with that!? How much money does he earn per month with that.....and yes I really have no idea and my question is meant real and not as a joke.

[@Serris412]

Every ad you see on youtube provides content creators with an income, as well as donations from his streams, and the few sponsors his channel has (which most likely give him equipment at reduced prices), means he, and many other youtubers, can do stuff like this full time.

[@mrsayang]

Hi Brendan, thanks for your answer! I do Sim Racing aswell, but I spend a lot of money for it and don't get any money from it. So it seems to be good to be a KZbinR with many followers.

[@Eunostos]

Thank you for giving so much non-hyperbolic about this topic. I better understand what i'm missing (and that that price is not warranted for that benefit in my case.)

[@cathallawlor989]

Is that Zolder?

[@leventezari7540]

If you have the budget for it definitely worth the money no matter what kind of sim racer are you

[@benistingray6097]

Hm interesting! Im using a Thrustmaster TX and even there i had to limit my FF because the force was stronger than it was confortable for me to drive for longer times. Why would you need even more force than that?

[@benistingray6097]

Ok jup, makes sense, thanks for the explanation! My FF is somewhere around 30%-35%, wouldnt it be the same as with speakers, in the sense that, because my overall FF is so low, the force the game puts out is low enough that the details come through?

[@TheInsaiyan]

I've put my G29 on 70% gain, only bc any more i would cause clipping. But I would need tripple that just to feel comfortable and have a faster wheel as well. That's probably your problem, it feels too strong bc the wheel is too slow so you have to fight it, with DD Wheels you don't have to fight it all the time bc real cars ALIGN themselves, conservation of energy/path of least resistance. Altough I come from karting, peak forces can reach 30NM (12 times stronger than what consumer wheels can offer) over bumps and curbs, but most of the time it's effortless compared to driving a lower end FFB wheel bc you don't have to drive OVER the wheel bc its too slow. The main benefit of these strong servos is actually the speed and its one to one with the sim, not the force it takes to turn it, lol.

[@starmarky]

As being a german guy, this was one of the very few Broadbent-Videos where i did't get a knot in my ears while trying to understand what he is talking about. One thumb and two earlobes up.

[@bustercherry8734]

Why would you want that much force feedback. That's way more than in a real life car

[@hooligander]

Honestly once you try one, there is no turning back. Had to throw out my G25 after using one, now to start saving

[@exposer3339]

I just bought a G29 and it's my first wheel i ever owned... i'm pretty happy with it for 250,- euro's. (taxes in Netherlands suck) Maybe in a few years i'm getting a belt-driven Fanatec. I didnt even know the technology before i went out and bought one. But for a first wheel it's more than okay :) I'm racing for a few weeeks now and i'm able to get under 5 minutes in a Formule 1 (F138) on Nordschleife Tourist , my friend who introduced me to sim-racing is jealous because i'm beating him everytime XD

[@xcyanidegamerx4402]

Meh. i just use a g290 with pedals and the shifter with a custom knob it works good Lmfao

[@Dsanzo.]

this video was a really easy to watch and informative commentary. i'd like to see more gear videos in the future.