Is America Declining like Ancient Rome?

Setting up an Invideo account is free, and you can publish watermark-free videos for just $20/month: invideo.io/i/toldinstone
Is America declining? Debatable. Is it declining the way the Roman Empire did? No.
My new book, "Insane Emperors, Sunken Cities, and Earthquake Machines" is now available! Check it out here: www.amazon.com/Insane-Emperors-Sunken-Earthquake-Machines/dp/1633888932
Check out my other KZbin channels, @toldinstonefootnotes and @scenicroutestothepast
Please consider supporting toldinstone on Patreon:
www.patreon.com/toldinstone
If you're so inclined, you can follow me elsewhere on the web:
www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/profiles/toldinstone
toldinstone
www.goodreads.com/author/show/20993845.Garrett_Ryan
Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
0:53 Sources of anxiety
1:34 The Roman analogy
2:32 Superficial similarities
3:41 Invideo
4:50 Are all empires alike?
5:50 Rome fell because...
6:47 Parallels and lessons

[@Marshal_Dunnik]

Some Americans focus on the Fall of Rome when they really should focus on the fall of the Roman Republic

[@thax321]

This needs more upvotes.

[@ryv2484]

Someone is about to step up and make the trains run on time 😦

[@therandomlearningcompany]

Absolutely! After the principate seized power of the Tribune of the Plebians, there was no representation for those Plebians, who desperately needed it. Augustus is overrated, and Sulla’s name should be shunned in the history books for taking Plebian power away…

[@theeccentrictripper3863]

@@ryv2484 Keep a weather eye on the horizon, but don't trust anyone with a mustache and a penchant for lederhosen, our Caesar must be the Constitution made flesh or we'll just devolve into proper despotism.

[@cjk6736]

In the entire video, the narrator refers to the Roman Republic as "Rome". What is your point?

[@whatthefunction9140]

We haven't even gotten to our emperor phase yet

[@zarategabe]

We need more labor unions and direct democratic participation by citizens to prevent dictatorship and further oligarchy

[@BFDT-4]

Problem is, when we get to the emperor phase, that's IT for the USA (eh, the constitution has no provision for dictator or emperor.)

[@william6223]

​@@zarategabe How about zero connection to the mob, the government, communists, or the democratic party then? It would be refreshing if Labor/the People were loyal to one another, rather than power.

[@1theredrooster]

that orange jackass is desperately tying, although taking the fascistic road instead

[@nowthenzen]

The Imperial Presidency who takes the nation to war on his will alone. We have semi-elected emperors and have since Nixon.

[@Corvinuswargaming1444]

these superficial comparisons of America to Rome also leave out the scale of time passing for Rome, or later Byzantium. An empire that exists for hundreds of years is bound to have difficult periods that are corrected, or not. Fixation on decline is also based on a reading of history that essentially denies human agency or historical contingency. Rome has a number of “declines” in its history followed by reforms later on, as well as failed attempts at reform. There is no single predetermined arc for any society.

[@da90sReAlvloc]

Exactly Americans so badly want to be connected to Rome. That they will try to make any connection no matter how small it is and say look were Romans, They can't see that they are more like Carthage I've done a video about it

[@tuxtitan780]

I also hate how these comparisons very rarely mention the differences between Rome and the US. To compare the two at all, you have to ignore a lot of things, and then tip toe around how you frame, contexualize, and phrase everything. You can easily compare the Gothic invasions to the current US border crisis, and you can also make them seem vastly different and incomparable, for example.

[@ingold1470]

I think the assumption is that modern tech speeds everything up.

[@kralebdude]

not used to seeing such a nuanced and thoroughly-reasoned comment on this website. glad i've made it to this side of youtube.

[@Gigachadsik]

Replacing yourselves with mass immigration, contraceptives, transgenderism, the replacement of holidays, this country is an economic zone there is no fall there is only a rotting corpse. """America""" was shot in the back of the head in 1963.

[@hughjass8430]

"It fell because it's officials were corrupt...." That's the clearest link between Rome and US.

[@jeanlannes4396]

There is barbarians flooding across the border unchecked, like the Goths allowed to cross the Danube and settle. The inability of the military to recruit enough soldiers. Devaluation of currency is rampant. Increased income inequality. The traditional faith being replaced by something radically different, undermining all institutions. Climate shifts. There is similarity in the fall of the Soviet Union, with entrenched gerontocracy and hyper-reality.

[@dziban303]

@@jeanlannes4396 The barbarians are the toads storming the seat of government because their guy lost

[@zarategabe]

​@@jeanlannes4396they aren't barbarians coming across the border. They are refugees of wars and military coups that the USA has started and maintains.

[@grimaffiliations3671]

@@jeanlannes4396 the border is incredibly militarized, our currency is stronger than its been in decades. Inequality is a problem. Pretty sure Christianity is still by far the top religion

[@rudysmith1552]

​@@grimaffiliations3671go up to a random Gen Z person and ask them to quote the Bible

[@CMVBrielman]

We haven’t even gotten to the “our arch military rival occupies our homeland and we still beat them” stage of Rome’s history yet.

[@zarategabe]

The USA has never faced a foreign invasion because of its geography

[@julianciahaconsulting8663]

oh its coming fast but you wont beat China

[@da90sReAlvloc]

Us never faced. So much for you knowing us history Remember in 1812 when the British red coats marched in Washington and burned down the white house,

[@da90sReAlvloc]

​@@zarategabe except in 1812 when us Brits burned down the white house you mean

[@boarfaceswinejaw4516]

@@julianciahaconsulting8663 china is beating itself. every issue the US has china has a worse version of it.

[@TXMEDRGR]

I see more parallels between the fall of the British Empire and America's decline. A slow slide to second-rate status rather than a crash.

[@thimble347]

I'm inclined to disagree, the British Empire comparison is apt when drawing parallels regarding its geopolitical interaction among competitive states, for example China can be interpreted as the German Empire in that scenario in that it shares the same level of competition but also many of the same weaknesses against the US however I don't see the United States ever ceasing to exist as a global power. There is no colonial empire that the US relies on that can be jeopardized, it remains a global exporter of vital strategic resources and reserves have just been uncovered that will enable the US to offset attempts to curtail its access to rare earth minerals. The US economy has also defied expectations by maintaining a solid growth rate even in the face of inflation caused by government spending. Even if we fast-forward the perceived track of the US and remove NATO from the equation and cast it into a period of isolation that would enable it to degrade enough to be truly peer-to-peer with its strategic rivals the US will still remain a geopolitical power. The USSR faced a cataclysm and today the Russian Federation remains a significant player in global affairs, the same can even be said of China which began the last century as a truly collapsed nation and leveraged it's resources and manpower.

[@emilianozamora399]

The United States is still on top of the world and it isn’t changing any time soon..

[@TishoYanchev]

OMG. These brainwashed anglos and their eternal delusions are getting really annoying.. British Empire could not even remotely be compared to America. British Emppire was never a world dominant global superpower like America is today. British Empire was nothing more than an average typical European Empire for its day, not different to France, Germany, even Japan. At no point in its history could British Empire overpower or dominate France or Germany let alone the entirity of Europe like American does and can today.

[@irenejohnston6802]

The 7th world power of Daniel's prophecy sprang from the "small" horn speaking grandiose things in the 18thc. Became the British Empire. After WWI. US took ascendancy. The last world power, 7th from the Creator's perspective is The Anglo/American WP. 1st was Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. Why? because they had an adverse effect upon the people who are loyal to Him throughout history.Daniel 2:44. Revelation 17:10. 8th 'king' the UN is only a reflection or image put in place by the 7th world power Rev 12:7-9 From a scriptural perspective The Babylonian empire fell in one night. They we're having a party. Using the plundered gold vessels from Jerusalem's destroyed temple. K.Cyrus diverted the canals and marched in. The impregnable walls made no difference. They'd left open the copper doors.

[@drscopeify]

This is totally wrong thinking as Rome and the British Empire ruled over other peoples, nations, cultures, the USA does none of that. The British Empire ruled over billions of other peoples the USA dose not. The British Empire took advantage over resources, people, slaves, companies, all plundering wealth of other nations, cultures, people, the USA does none of that. The USA an a country of trade, we buy what we need, we need OIL we will buy it form the Saudi's this is trade NOT Empire of plunder. The USA dose not go around the world stealing other nations wealth like Rome and the British did. That is foolish to think that. After WW2 we could have made Japan, western Germany, South Korea as US states and really become a proper Empire but did we do that? No. We as always follow our world view of SELF DETERMINATION of all other peoples and lead to the creation of HIGHLY successful nations around the globe. Today it is Japanese companies that own American companies like US Steel just recently sold to a Japanese steel company, The Giant GE Electric company is owned now by a Chinese company and Chrysler the 3rd largest car maker of RAM/Dodge/Jeep is owned by Italian company Stilantis. America is not an Empire so there is nothing to decline here. Also Russia and China are not empires either the world today has NO EMPIRES so comparing it to Rome or British Empire is pointless.

[@BradLane5]

Over a long enough timeline, the survival rate of everything drops to zero.

[@islambale747]

Man I love that movie.

[@markaurelius3119]

His name is Robert Paulson

[@BenjaminJanssens84]

Correct. And fuck the movie

[@donniedeville5102]

"everything" There's NO evidence for that.

[@boarfaceswinejaw4516]

This makes absolutely no sense.

[@lewisgilbertson7506]

You dont realize how ridiculously advanced the modern age is until you think about how basically everything you do on a day to day basis would be absolutely alien to people living just 200 years ago, Took a photo and sent it to someone across the world instantly Hopped on my phone and ordered food from a restaurant across town without moving a muscle Went on my phone and was able to see news and ongoing conflicts across the entire planet live

[@darbysdownhomedetecting]

Well said.

[@Rynewulf]

More like 20, even I remember that stuff being brand new!

[@T-rexBreath]

This is true for sure. You could argue that the average person from the mid 19th century had a lot more in common with someone from the 14th century than the 21st century. We truly are in a completely different world. What's scary, though, is that we have the power to set ourselves back to 19th century standards in an instant.

[@stefanrusu7106]

What I find truly amazing is how accessible information is nowadays, and how little of it we use to better ourselves and our society. That photo album sent so easily across the globe often conveys less meaning than a letter from 200 years ago, which took 3 months to get to it's destination.

[@olorin4317]

We’re living in a modern renaissance but people have the audacity to be bored and complain that we don’t live like Jetsons.

[@pedenharley6266]

As a fan of your channel whose command of the electric bass is about as good as my Greek (enthusiastic but quite limited), may I just express my appreciation for the news bar noting the founding of a bass guitar museum.

[@olorin4317]

When some Americans complain about our failings, it actually sounds like they are cheering on America’s fall. I think if we can find a way to amicably rectify that situation, we could still become the country we’ve always aspired to be.

[@BenjoKazooie64]

It's amazing how both extremes of the spectrum hold this view. Fascists want America to fall for being too brown and gay for them, communists want America to fall for being too capitalist for them.

[@beeflumps]

"See? This is what the [insert party] have done to America."

[@hollister2320]

I luv this take, I don’t doubt most of these are Russian bots so many of us have fell for, but yes, this can all be fixed so easily which is so unique to only our country🙏

[@antifacho9294]

If you can t criticize your not even acknowledging the problem

[@Gobrech]

​​​​​@@hollister2320 that's right neo-lib brainlet#221, Putin, the clear progenitor of everything you disagree with

[@Semper_Iratus]

Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards.

[@Ofthehunt]

If we had to pick a spot in the Roman timeline the US is on right now, we're somewhere between the 2nd Punic war (winning the cold war) and the Gracchi brothers. The late Roman republic was such a dumpster fire though. I'm thankful I live in the US right now, albeit it's far from perfect.

[@zarategabe]

I don't think the USA really won the Cold War and now the US led global system is declining rapidly just 30 years after the fall of the USSR

[@hulking_presence]

You didn't won the cold war.

[@hulking_presence]

btw USA IS Carthage.

[@BizzaBoey]

I think we might be a bit farther along chronologically than the Gracchi brothers to somewhere closer Sulla(even w/o his civil war) or the Cataline conspiracy (degradation of our electoral trust and uprising as a result) of the late. Republic. It's beginning to show some of the flaws of the system that can lead to dictatorial abuses and political violence. However, I don't think this political violence has advanced to something like Clodius at this point.

[@MatthewTheWanderer]

@@hulking_presence Huh? That makes no sense!

[@DieLuftwaffel]

Much more fair analysis than I expected, no offense. It's difficult to touch these topics without ticking one side or other off and I think you did pretty well at avoiding drama.

[@Lifferful333]

Well this is toldinstone you're talking about

[@_ata_3]

What was the analysis? The video just avoids the question

[@KuursKat]

Love clicking on a ToldInStone video and immediately hearing a harp strum and chisels

[@JaegerMatthias]

asmr for history nerds

[@claytonberg721]

I need to start following this more closely. Were this a simon whistler channel like Warographics it would have a start, a middle and an end, with everything sort of tired up neatly. This video recognizes the shear scope of the question and informs as best you can in 8 minutes. When you try to dumb something down that probably needs 700+ pages to twenty minutes you lose so much.

[@alhesiad]

Mom said it was my turn to predict the fall of America.

[@zarategabe]

no one is predicting the fall but everyone is talking about the decline of the USA, from left to right, everyone is in agreement that the USA is declining.

[@markaurelius3119]

​@@zarategabewhere there is a decline, there is a 🍂

[@da90sReAlvloc]

​@@zarategabe what's gonna happen is America is gonna split in to 2 separate countries you watch

[@madmattdigs9518]

Your mom went to college…

[@Gigachadsik]

White women being killed on college campuses for simply walking(By venezuelan illegal)??? Yeah it's falling.

[@GnomaPhobic]

The comments here are instructive. People talking about 'phases of history' as though it were a universal linear process. There are no phases, we made phases up. Every society is on its own path, and that path is the path it is currently blazing. The less we try to put life into neat boxes and categories, the less frustrated we will be by life's refusal to conform to our attempts at control.

[@MatthewTheWanderer]

You are absolutely correct.

[@jbrown8601]

💯

[@Badgerlust]

Yeah that linear line gets cut every time a civilization collapses

[@SB-qm5wg]

Well the US isn't new either. When the US started out, the Ottomans were still around along with the Papal States of Italy.

[@bboi1489]

And the HRE. But all that aside, we aren't even 300 years old and are already a superpower, so I'd argue were very young

[@Earthlybeing396]

@@bboi1489the country that created the USA was around for a long time though. The age of a nation isn’t that important. USA is technically one of the oldest countries on earth

[@TotalDrganMania]

@@Earthlybeing396 Only if you are talking about a country in terms of the age of its consitution

[@Tom_Quixote]

In my city, there's a bar that's older than the USA.

[@bboi1489]

@Earthlybeing396 The USA created itself when it declared sovereignty. With your logic, there's like, 5 different Mongolias running around out there right now.

[@stormgeist1766]

An excellent topic that has been heavy on my mind as of late... Not just the fall (very loosely speaking) of the ancient Roman civilization, but of many ancient civilizations. Or to put it more bluntly, is our civilization falling? And, what can we learn about that from the past... Excited to hear your thoughts, and I'm glad you made this video. About to watch now

[@danielintheantipodes6741]

Thank you for the video!

[@1TakoyakiStore]

The quote from Frank Herbert's "God Emperor of Dune" is coming to mind. "I'll teach humanity a lesson that they will remember in their bones!" - Leto II It's as if the Roman Empire, and more specifically Gaius Julius Caesar and his successor Augustus, branded every European's genetic code with the reverence for ancient Rome. It's not that history is repeating, but rather Ancient Rome was so potent to our collective unconscious. Not unlike the Trojan wars to those same Romans.

[@olorin4317]

Our global superpower phase is having a rough time, seemingly in the process of willful abandonment.

[@kristenlevine3446]

This was a very thought-provoking vid.

[@juanfervalencia]

As always, this was flawless, interesting, entertaining and enlightened. I am enjoying Insane Emperors, Sunken Cities, and Earthquake Machines, congratulations for your work.

[@megansfo]

I'm a lifelong student of history, and at 74 can say this: I would not go back to former eras, some of which I lived through, no matter how much some people idealize them. Having been born in 1950, I know how it really was in the late 50s to early 60s. Not ideal at all. And anyway, time travel doesn't exist. We can't go back, only forward. We are not the Roman Empire. And there are plenty of modern countries that do quite well without being the "greatest" in the world. There is nothing wrong with that.

[@grimaffiliations3671]

a lot of people believe the US is going to collapse soon because of the national debt, they don't realize that the national debt is just people's savings

[@b1crusade384]

The 1950’s was America at its peak. It was just about the solo nuclear power, had full global control and the world look to it. America has copied Rome so much that its capital would looks somewhat familiar to an Ancient Rome. Classics in America is essentially the study of Rome. America copies Rome attributes like invading and dominating others, feeding its culture globals and other attributes

[@LennyFrankowiak]

Respect.

[@PLuMUK54]

​@Anonymous-yk9yq My parents grew up in the 1930s. They lived in poverty. My maternal grandparents were born in the 19th century. They lived in poverty. Compared to these periods, the 1950s and 60s saw an improvement from poverty to just being relatively poor. Compared to today, there was a lot that was good, but a huge amount was not. I'd also not go back to those times. Today, for all its faults, life for many more people is way better.

[@jl696]

If I could go back to the early 60s, I would. If I could go back to 80s, my teen years, I would. If could go back to the late 90s or 00s before 911, I would. In every one of those times mentioned, America was more socially cohesive, our people were more vibrant, and America was absolutely stronger and more confident in itself. I do live a good personal life now. I have a wonderful, loving wife. I have an enjoyable job that pays better than I have ever earned before. But no matter, what we tell ourselves today, all I have to do is look around me and to see that our nation is in decline. Maybe, we can "Make America Great Again", to borrow a phrase. We certainly have been through very rough times in the past and we have always been very resilient. I have not given up on America but sometimes I think America has given up on itself. I know, I know, sentimentalist mush, right?

[@Matteo-jd6mt]

I couldn't read this title and not click, Consider making it a series

[@jaylewis9876]

This video covers so many concepts so concisely! I love the comment about how you learn much by traveling. This is an amazing edge for Europeans who have both deep history and easy travel that Americans don’t enjoy

[@HistoryFirst]

would you consider making a video on ancient Egypt?

[@joaoluiz2929]

The USA are much more related to Carthage than Rome. Carl Schmitt is a good reading for that

[@zarategabe]

especially both being founded as mainly commercial enterprises

[@NikephorosCaesar]

Ironically Russia operates similarly to Rome

[@SC-gw8np]

Yep. USA was never Rome.

[@gregpappas]

Great work. Your intellect shines through.

[@brick6347]

We have an example of a technologically advanced superpower collapsing in on itself: the USSR. There are far more similarities to be found there than in Rome.

[@patstokes7040]

Your sponsor is just the kind if product no one should use. It is just the kind of technology the brainless and the non creative person uses. That's horrifying that it can clone your voice. I can just see all the same clips being used over and over and over. The opening line is "human creativity" that is the last thing thing this is and yet they want you to think you're the creature. Someone has to speck up against the brainless, mentally homogenized society we are moving towards. Love your channel but this technology will eliminate it.

[@onemoreminute0543]

Eh, I don't know. I feel as if the US comparisons to Rome are both very US-centric and partly influenced by American exceptionalism. You could draw parallels between Rome and other modern countries too. But, just for shits and giggles, I'll run through potential parallels one could see between US and Roman history: - Both properly began by rejecting a monarchy and beginning a democratic institution - Both had their capitals attacked early on (Washington DC in 1812 and Rome in 390 BC) - Conflict between two groups where one threatens to secede from the nation (Confederacy, plebs threatening to set up new city in opposition patricians) - Both then underwent a period of roughly a hundred years where they expanded into what would become their core territory (US state stretching from the Atlantic to the Pacific, Roman conquest of Italy) - One of these expansions was in the south of the country which led to the takeover of land that would become an important second language in the state (seizure of Mexico leads to Spanish language/influence, seizure of Tarentum begins Greek language/influence) - The nations then expanded to overseas domination, over islands and then getting involved in the affairs of other nations (Spanish-American war + World Wars, Punic + Macedonian wars) - The nations greatest geopolitical rival comes to an end (USSR, Carthage) - Increasing wealth inequalities and poor treatment of veterans (don't know where America's Gracchi brothers are right now though) - Demands by a second class group for equal rights (Civil Rights Movement and Social War) - Increasing threats to home security lead to reactionary measures and social conflict (9/11 + war on terror, Cimbri-Teutones + Asiatic Vespers) So, if you're a 'US is literally Rome you guys!' truther, then the country should be seeing a Sulla and Marius soon. Which should be... fun. (Oh, and I wonder what part of Roman history syncs up with the hot mess that was Iraq?)

[@1685Violin]

The conquest of the Northwestern territories of Mexico did not lead to Spanish becoming a widely spoken language in the US until the 1960s because at the time of the conquest, there were very few Spanish speakers living in those areas outside of Texas, the Californian missions, and Santa Fe, New Mexico. The langauge grew because of the "mass movements" of Latin Americans after the 1960s that had nothing to do with the conquest of the Mexican territories except for the takeover of Cuba and Puerto Rico after the Spanish-American War.

[@onemoreminute0543]

@@1685Violin Yeah, you're right, I was just stretching.

[@yessirgg]

A parallel that I would make is the immigration boom (Romans: Germanic Peoples, US: literally everyone)

[@kleinweichkleinweich]

the Roman equivalent of Iraq was Iraq - well at least some part of the Seleukide empire, which in its prime stretched to Baktria (modern day Afghanistan)

[@hexateron]

I thought this was a Whatifalthist video for a moment

[@dutchplanderlinde8883]

Because it makes sense. I get it.

[@kennethsmith5309]

Dude is a sophist

[@matthewe3813]

Yes, I was too, but I'm happy either way

[@Jay-gf8tm]

Great channel

[@Hadesthief]

​@@dutchplanderlinde8883 Whatifalthist is the antithesis of sense.

[@callenclarke371]

Excellent content.

[@punx3030]

Short but really good comparison and analysis

[@-NINE-THREE-]

Does Yogi Bear crap in a cave? Lol

[@nowthenzen]

If he does, boo-boo bear cleans it up

[@akjdhajkdjhaghjkadh9804]

how does it feel being wrong?

[@-NINE-THREE-]

​@@akjdhajkdjhaghjkadh9804 .kcuf tsinummoC ,flesruoy lliK

[@ImagoofybaII]

Lots of people making endless analogies between the modern world and Rome because it's the only history they know lol

[@ImagoofybaII]

Actually "the only history they know of", would be a better way of putting it

[@schnittmagier5515]

I would agree. And i really despise the idea of " History repeats itself". In extremely simple terms it might be true since everything has a expiry day. And everything that "goes up must come down". But I am not sure if mongol hordes will ever take over eurasia again. Or Hallstadt Salt exports will rise again to former glory Or Venice will dominate the Mediterranean sea again. Because history is way to complex and chaotic to be able to literaly repeat itself.

[@_ata_3]

All other histories end too 😂

[@_ata_3]

All other histories end too.

[@felixthecat2786]

It all fell apart when we decided to create the strip mall cul de sac suburbs with R2 zoning. No sense of community and no public spaces. No room to growth, only sprawl. No way to get around without automobiles. Work, school, shops, and goods are too far away to walk to without no proper roadway systems to get us there except for one main artery. Roads and and the ability to move and transport goods is pivotal to creating a successful civilization. The highway system in itself was a brilliant concept, but we took away all other alternative roadways and transit options. We've all grown isolated and withdrawn from one another because we don't speak to real people anymore. We sit in our giant castles in the middle of nowhere instead of moving around. Americans have grown physically weak. We aren't capable of walking two miles. Our obesity is killing us Americans have become paranoid and compliant. We exist solely in our echo chambers and perceive the world in our own subjective biases. Americans are becoming economically poorer than prior generations due to monopoly of real estate and lack of jobs. Our complex capitalist system has become so liberal that we've allowed corporate monopolies to own every single shred of economic consumerism. We're heading in the direction of downfall for this reason.

[@PeculiarNotions]

Thank you for this thoughtful analysis.

[@lcbryant78]

What about Carthage?

[@da90sReAlvloc]

American is like Carthage

[@NikephorosCaesar]

America has more similarities to Carthage than to Rome and ironically Russia operates much more similarly to Rome

[@seanduncan9722]

Carthage was a tiny port. America is basically an entire continent LMAO wtf ​@@NikephorosCaesar

[@MatthewDoye]

We would do well to remember that all empires are fundamentally unjust.

[@leeborocz-johnson1649]

I commented this on another video, but I just want to say it again here, RIP to the great historian of ideas, John Pocock, whose 6-volume study of Edward Gibbon's "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" is a scholarly epic almost on par with Gibbon's masterpiece itself. It is as important to have a good historical sense of thinking about Rome as it is to think about Rome. Thinking about thinking about Rome. Truly an onion with innumerable layers.

[@ericsonhazeltine5064]

I had no idea these videos were now so facile to make! I’m very outdated.

[@Pax.Alotin]

VHS is still a hot item on eBay ---

[@_ata_3]

You mean the poor argumentation right?

[@ericsonhazeltine5064]

@@_ata_3 no, I meant the mechanics of producing them. Point and click for pictures, narration, etc.

[@_ata_3]

@@ericsonhazeltine5064Yeah, they are like powerpoint presentations. Same images repeated over and over again.

[@ingold1470]

When reading Tacitus' annals, one wonders how Rome managed to survive its first imperial century, let alone the next 4-15. So at least the gloomy outlook of its own political writers is something Rome and America have in common.

[@kidmohair8151]

Q: what do empires do best? A: fall. in my opinion the similarities of the US with Rome are stronger than the differences.

[@AaronTheGreat________]

Dumbass opinion

[@awogbob]

Although most of your videos are succint and focus on one aspect of roman culture I truly feel like this topic should / could have easily led into an hour long lecture. Particularly insightful about the dual nature of being a like and different. I found the parallel to travelling to different cultures pretty enlightening

[@tuxtitan780]

I always have had a dislike of these comparisons. Sure, some things are similar, but both situations of both empires are so different, their cultures, values, foundings, everything is different. Technology is different, how politics are conducted is different, how we communicate is different, on and on. The only thing that i can really see being comparable is how, at this point in time, it seems like the US is splitting down partisan lines, and some controversial and power hungry political figures are avoiding criminal prosecution as much as possible, in ways almost identical to that of how Rome split between the Ceasarion and Pompeian factions and Ceaser dodged criminal prosecution. Except, this time around, neither politician is exactly popular or great military leaders capable of fighting a civil war.

[@blacktee64]

History doesn't repeat but it does rhyme.

[@cougar2013]

Really great take. Thank you very much!

[@sergeykoshelev4566]

Thank You, Garrett. Being kind of out of working order (for a limited time, I hope) I have become addicted to Your channel. As for US fall... My thought that it's not possible, unless your country will take too much of unqualified work force aboard. That alone does not include growing possibility of nuclear war (which is sad and scary same time, as people at power going dumb and greedy every day), as no one in his sober mind would try to wage conventional war against US across the ocean.

[@drewbrew444]

What is the name of the painting at 5:21 ?? I'm obsessed

[@bernhardholl95]

A View through Three Arches of the Third Storey of the Colosseum. C.W. Eckersberg

[@drewbrew444]

@@bernhardholl95 THANK YOU

[@BlueBeetle1939]

No it is declining in a totally new and different way

[@EllieMaes-Grandad]

Forget "the American dream" and concentrate on the harsh reality of current decline . . . ?

[@MatthewTheWanderer]

No, it is NOT declining, and anyone who believes it is is too stupid to live.

[@paulred158]

America is not a democracy, it amuses me that you Americans think you are yet you passed Citizens United and allowed unlimited anonymous political donations , voter suppression and gerrymandering are rife and only a fraction of your populace actually vote. Hardly a democracy.

[@forced-into-Google-Handle]

Another great lesson from Garrett Ryan. I often enjoy the paintings shown in the videos. Am guessing they're often from Europe's Romantic Period or the Neoclassical. They are beautiful and intriguing. Wish there were a way to KNOW their titles and painters so to do a little research....but still enjoyable this way. Thanks & as always "In Vino Veritas !"

[@SZKARLUPIEN]

"losing loyalty of provincial elites" uh-oh...

[@garlicbreathandfarts]

All empires have an expiration date.

[@MeepChangeling]

* all Empires so far.

[@RomanCatholic]

Except the Kingdom of God

[@NikephorosCaesar]

Rome had an expiration date of over 2000 years

[@petrilio]

"And 50 states emerged independent following the oppressive rule of Emperor Trump, the supreme leader of the New World".

[@drscopeify]

The USA is not an empire, we do not control other nations that speak different languages or have a different culture. Rome, Spain, British Empire ruled over other peoples, nations, cultures, the USA does none of that other than maybe Puerto Rico and Guam but these are small populations and obviously not part of an Empire. We could after WW2 have taken control over western Germany and Japan and annexed it to the USA as a state but not doing so resulted in the USSR also letting eastern Germany remain under its own leadership finally in 1991 allowing both halves of Germany to reunite and restore the country. The USA could have been an empire but it made the right choice and always supported the self-determination of all peoples and as such we are NOT a empire obviously. In fact the USA broke apart all remaining empire, we ended the Japanese Empire, we ended the British Empire, we ended the Spanish Empire, we ended the Soviet Union. The USA is an EMPIRE killer

[@marcusmoonstein242]

Times change, but human nature stays the same. The patterns in human nature that bring down great empires and businesses alike are still there.

[@Allright890]

Thank you, happy weekend day

[@pogd740]

great video

[@harpoen7358]

It is human behavior and that never changes throughout the centuries

[@HackerArmy03]

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” In any way, I would very much welcome an American empire. Just make sure the Emperor has a very cool sounding name, preferably Latin or a royal British one, and I'll be all in.

[@EllieMaes-Grandad]

You've got Harry, so good luck with 'royal' stuff . . .

[@peterj9351]

Name like, IDK, Barron?

[@super_terram]

The only thing that matters is trends. Humans trend to civilize in a single society like Rome, or the USA for around 200-300 years before corruption ultimately eats away at enough of the foundation, and structure of society, that it caves in on itself. It's not unlike other elements of the universe that expand until they collapse. The real question is, how long will the USA endure before it inevitably, and inexorably implodes. It doesn't help that the worlds super powers all try to hurry along each others demise.

[@mrs6968]

Good topic it's crossed my mind a few times

[@hansmalm2801]

The same mechanism is working in Sweden right now. A previously high producing society are now full of people that are not producing. The wheels keep on spinning just for so long, but then it's suddenly over. That's why societies fall.

[@toadrepublic]

Yes. I see decline around me every day.

[@MatthewTheWanderer]

You are hallucinating, then, lol

[@markdavid7013]

No power stays on top forever..The "playing field is becoming level" in our world.

[@michaeldeaton]

The issue as I see it is we are on the cusp of giving Caesar his 10 years of unprecedented dictatorship, and Rome never returned to a Republic from that moment and if we give Presidents total immunity then we won't return to a Constitutional Democratic Republic ever either. That's the similarity. Our politics has become as absurd, and the call for dictatorship to resolve the issue is becoming clarion. This bothers me as a parent and an American citizen.

[@jcsrst]

Nothing lasts forever.

[@anthonybird546]

I'm sure this is gonna bring totally calm, rational discussion to the comments and not be horrible at all

[@_ata_3]

They are pretty lame tho

[@grumbogee1772]

not an ai ad....the hell toldinstone.

[@thetbird69]

I think it's just at a very basic level some countries have their time like the Roman empire and the British empire etc they come and go until it's the next person/countries' turn

[@lucius_cursor]

Like some of the other comments here, I focus on the fall of the republic, not of Rome itself. It is the degradation into monarchy that I seek to avoid, and I can’t help but notice what seems to me to be uncanny parallels that caused the stability of the republic to decline in such a way that a people who reviled kings and would even strip a citizen of their rights (and by extension their life), would seek harbor in monarchy under a different name, albeit Augustus took a much smarter approach than Caesar. Either way, for me the issue is not necessarily the fall of the US, but the fall of her free institutions, or rather what we have left, which in my estimation is the shell of a republic. Some of our institutions have been twisted beyond what the founders would have recognized. Somehow 435 (+3 non voting members) representatives are supposed to represent more than 300 million people? No. The senators should be elected by popular vote? No. The large misunderstanding and misconceptions of the electoral college will likely lead also to a popular vote, which will not help our current polarization. And speaking of, while the optimates and populares were not a political party in how we would imagine today, they were effectively political factions, and it is undoubted that these two factions becoming more and more polarized helped in the destruction of the republic. The fall of the Roman republic has information that could allow us to continue as something akin to a republic or even restore some of our institutions, for proper checks and balances, making sure the people are properly represented as well as the aristocracy, in that no one faction should have more power than another. However, as human history has proven, all things come to and end, and we are in the death throes of our republican experiment. It is this part of Roman history that I feel as important and feel like the American journey is copying, albeit in slightly different ways, but the large actors appear to be the same. This is likely not the end of America, just the fall of her republic and her rise to monarchy. Edited for paragraphs.

[@abrahamanthony7106]

Use paragraphs, man!

[@lucius_cursor]

@@abrahamanthony7106 good point, I made an edit. Does that work?

[@SC-gw8np]

Egalitarianism has never (truly) been tried in history and will likely never be tried in the future. There has always been the rulers and the ruled. Yet, you hope for such an impossible prospect?

[@lucius_cursor]

No, it is not egalitarianism that I am after. It is stability of government and individual freedom. Egalitarianism is probably, as you seem to agree, an impossibility. A republic, properly, restrains the political sphere of government, while not allowing one faction of government, such as the legislative, executive or judicial, or however you would like to chop these up, to have more control or power than the other faction. This is done through checks and balances and distribution of power. Older ideas of American republicanism (not the political party). And to be clear, all things must end, and it is not the end I think to prevent. I wish to maintain stability as long as possible. Education of the political system at play and what it is supposed to be, contrary to what it is, is a good start.

[@SC-gw8np]

@@lucius_cursor That all sounds good in theory but will be difficult to put into practice. The thing about power is that it is difficult to control it through checks and balances. The ones who have it won’t easily relinquish it. I think an accountability system would be easier to put into place. Those who fail to accomplish much while in power should go by the next term.

[@janerkenbrack3373]

I think too many people see the word "republic" being used for both nations and think that they are similar. The United States of America is unique in its founding, primarily because it endorsed the concept of government of, by, and for the People, who must participate in that government in order to keep it honest and true to its duty to us all. Should America fall it will be because of the complacency of the public, and the relinquishment of our civic duties to those who would rule over us.

[@theeccentrictripper3863]

That's the Res publica in a nutshell, and it's where we got the idea, and the word lol

[@mint8648]

Complacency of the public = bread and circuses?

[@zarategabe]

The USA is not unique or new at all in this regard as there were hundreds of examples of democratic republics and experiments with democracy before the emergence of the USA. I know American Exceptionalism teaches us many myths but most aren't true

[@hulking_presence]

@@zarategabe USA is not a democratic country nor a republic. You are exceptional though. You are the first nation in the world adopting ochlocracy. Not only you gave voting rights to non land owning men, but to women and even to slaves. This is pure insanity. This was NEVER tried historically. On the other hand democracy is when only demos has voting rights - meaning free citizens, meaning non-slaves, meaning like 10% of the population. The same goes for roman "publica" - it's aristocracy who has voting rights. In America there is no aristocracy, only ochlos - the crowd.

[@hulking_presence]

@@theeccentrictripper3863 you got the word, that's right. But nothing else.

[@rundbaum]

i got dat on ryan news netwerk! . . . this video was excellent. details & a knowledge of tone beyond my immediate understanding or exposure.

[@JamesMartinelli-jr9mh]

Floridians - we went through this in 1864/65. Lincoln sent his mercenaries to burn Tallahassee. They were stopped twice. The Battles of Olustee and Natural Bridge. They did kill cattle and steal hogs. Folks lived on possum. Later a statue to the possum was erected.

[@patavinity1262]

The answer is "yes it is" but it misses the larger point, which is that all empires go through this same life cycle: rise, peak, decline, destruction. The US is not an empire, but it is similarly powerful as a historical empire, and thus is doomed to repeat that same cycle.

[@tbrian420]

The American dream is dead - forget ever owning a home and rent is barely affordable in most cities

[@dziban303]

Thanks, hypercapitalism! At least we brought a lot of value to a few shareholders before the end

[@gabrielinostroza4989]

The real state market is primed to crash hard again, precisely because of that. No one can actually pay for all that real state, ergo the money that was invested in them will never be paid back. Things will become very cheap very suddenly, but at a huge cost to those who had their money put on them. The same is happening in a lot of countries, including China.

[@zarategabe]

​@@dziban303hyper capitalism is really just an inevitable consequence of regular capitalism. Capitalism is declining along with the USA

[@PerceptionVsReality333]

Now it's an American nightmare.

[@grimaffiliations3671]

its because of all these strict zoning laws that criminalize density

[@user-hq3nj7vv9m]

Fear is not about USA falling like Roman Empire, it is about USA turning from Roman Republic to Roman Empire, and that will trigger downfall

[@DH-.]

What are your thoughts on the mouse utopia experiment?

[@ASIRIDesigns]

History doesn't repeat, it rhymes. To summarize your thoughts on why Rome fell, you stated: -Germanic tribes overcame its frontier defenses -A series of civil wars sapped its strength -undeveloped economy -It lost the loyalty of provincial elites -It fell because their officials were corrupt -and for 100 other reasons. I don't think that we should dismiss the clear parallels. We are on track for a systems collapse at this rate.

[@melere777]

I agree. I also think when people are comparing the two nations, they aren't adjusting for the modern era and think it's going to look exactly the same when it literally can't.

[@viatorinterra]

I would say that the greatest similarity is that both are complex societies which have gone long past their inflection point in productivity

[@apocalypseblues3897]

i always thought that when my fellow americans drew comparison to the fall of rome they were referring to the much more relevant fall of the republic

[@macsnafu]

While there are some general similarities, there are also a lot of differences between the U.S. and the Roman empire. While a decline of some sort seems inevitable, the nature of that decline could vary considerably.

[@lephantomchickn3676]

Not a fan of taking the AI sponsorship

[@malcolmcurran6248]

Falling? Isn't it more like fallen? When, beginning in the 80s, we relinquished and transferred our industrial and manufacturing base to the Asian mainland, motivated in great part by right wing ideology based on School of Chicago economics and the relentless longstanding Republican urge to destroy unions and we became principally a "service" economy it was game over.

[@MatthewTheWanderer]

WTF kind of idiotic nonsense is that!? The industrial and manufacturing base is but a small aspect that doesn't define us at all!

[@malcolmcurran6248]

@@MatthewTheWanderer Yes industry and manufacturing are, if compared to the past, indeed but a small aspect of our former post war economy. Well wanderer maybe you should have a conversation about what "defines" us now with our unhoused veterans or single mothers of all ethnicities, who represent the largest pocket of poverty in the country. Or maybe as well those who have gone hopelessly into college debt in order to get decent paying jobs that never materialize only to soon be replaced by AI and find themselves at best wallowing in underpaid dead end service jobs with little or no health care coverage. Maybe you should let some of them bend your ear about what "defines" us now.

[@MatthewTheWanderer]

@@malcolmcurran6248 You are extremely mentally ill and should be ignored. Seek help! NONE of what you just said is relevant to anything you OR I said earlier.

[@harbifm766766]

Mostly will like midern day Brazil...or in worst case Venezuela

[@jeffruebens8355]

Rome did not have enough weapons to destroy the entire world several times, or big competitors to help prevent the worst murders and theft like Germany and Japan during WW2 that luckily failed for their fascism

[@TSEliot1978]

I think the US is at the late Republic stage. Extreme political divison, vast differences in wealth, traditional values collapsing

[@Nwmguy]

Traditional values in what sense? The ones that have been around for ~80-150 years and only in the west? "Traditional values" is just a reactionary conservative talking point.

[@Gobrech]

​@@Nwmguy "Reactionary" you feel smarter using little words that your weird friends use to panic/feel smug about how crazy, naive or deluded everyone outside your circle is. However, this narrow perspective leaves your worldview fragile and lacking depth, blinding you to the growing alienation experienced by many currently.

[@Gobrech]

​@@Nwmguy this is just a pathetic anti-reactionary talking point, Christian values have been around for a long time.

[@Gobrech]

P. S. Opposition to insanity? REACTIONARY! White blood cells in your body attacking foreign elements? REACTIONARY! I'm so smart! You're just a misled drone, unlike me, who can't bring any more nuance to the convo, or even has put in remotely any thought into anything relevant, but is okay with the current neo-liberal status quo.

[@Gobrech]

P. S. Opposition to insanity? RE@CTIONARY! White blood cells in your body attacking foreign elements? Also RE@CTIONARY! I'm so smart! You're just a misled drone, unlike me, who can't bring any more nuance to the convo, or even has put in remotely any thought into anything relevant but is okay with the current neo-liberal status quo.

[@aleinstein3223]

Yep, only 1200 years left

[@-NINE-THREE-]

I hope you're right.

[@joansparky4439]

back then only the very very very wealthy rulers would be able to send messages a long distance on a regular basis.. those mechanisms go much faster today.

[@culturalobserver8721]

Our decline in the US is so rapid, we don’t have many years left to reverse it! This is reality whether some care to admit it, or not.

[@aegonthedragon7303]

Will there be a rogue crusade that plunders D.C.? Ill be really disappointed if they don’t include that.

[@Voice_of_Adam]

@@joansparky4439 Exactly. Things happen a hell of a lot faster these days.

[@wlewisiii]

Depends on if we duplicate the Spanish Civil War first or not. That would change the dynamic enough to blow any roman comparisons straight to Gehenna.

[@adizmal]

I think the "main" difference is that America is not necessarily declining, but rather, has been a steward of the world as its sole hegemon for the past 80+ years. In a post WW2 geopolitical sense, of course America was on top, it was the only one left standing with intact manufacturing, labor force, etc. Logically over the 80 years since, various other nations and cultures have caught up, so to speak. It's not that America has been declining so much as, America spent a lot of time and effort to create a global environment where others could thrive and develop. And some of those have done so with efficiency, some in isolation, others have been more cooperative, etc. It's all very interesting.

[@tindo21]

I think of debt... imagine depending on borrowings from enemies to fund your own military.

[@texajp1946]

Imagine being 34 trillions in debt and still spending trillions to go wage war thousands of miles away while your infrastructure crumbles and American people suffer

[@EllieMaes-Grandad]

Import the third world, become the third world. There’s a "Third World” war in progress now ~ and ‘The West’ is losing it too!

[@Nwmguy]

That's not how the debt works... the "debt" that the US "owes" China is just a way to facilitate trade in USD. Republicans love to pretend otherwise to fearmonger. The USD is a sovereign fiat currency. In reality, there is nothing but politics stopping the US from creating the money to pay off any debt it wants. Any excess dollars can be taxed back (from those hoarding the wealth). The federal budget does not operate anything like a household or personal budget. The idea that it does is a way for conservatives to sell austerity and cut social programs.

[@Dave_Sisson]

I always thought the decline of the American Imperium is more analogous to the decline of the British Empire. But the major difference is that post World War I, the British were broke and readily accepted that soon they would no longer be the worlds preeminent superpower, but the Americans (perhaps because their culture is more insular) will deny the decline of their influence at every stage.

[@EllieMaes-Grandad]

UK has been living a 'grand delusion' since the end of the nineteenth century. Now we import the third world and politicians tell us we're doing well . . . . as if.

[@richdobbs6595]

The British were broke and fraction of military strength of their ally, which was at its apex financially and militarily. So it was pretty easy to "readily accept" it - despite and because of things like the Indian partition, Palestine, Malay, Greece, Suez Canal Crisis, etc, which were pretty strong indications that they were now a regional power only. Americans, at the height of their Imperium, have faced a strong challenge from the USSR which ultimately failed, a number of failed intervention from Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Iran, foolishly over propping up communist China, getting bogged down in a "War on Terror", etc. Yet they still have the largest economy, the most aircraft carriers, just as many nukes, a growing population, etc. So even though their decline in influence is undeniable, it would be inaccurate to say that this decline is somehow similar to Britain winning WW2 but losing an empire in the process. Its more like the situation when Britain lost America. A set back, but there was the possibility of future success in a contested environment.

[@Dave_Sisson]

@@richdobbs6595 Oh I agree with the first half of your post, but I think that the British sort of foresaw their future decline by the early 1920s and just accepted it, even though they were still the worlds strongest power at the time. Whereas the Americans are at the same stage 100 years later and are not accepting it.

[@brick6347]

​@@Dave_Sissonmost Britons had zero vested interest in it. Most didn't even get the right to vote until 1918, in some cases 1928. The powers that be may have accepted it, but most were oblivious and powerless. Americans have a stake in their society in an entirely different way

[@Dave_Sisson]

@@brick6347 While I'm not British, that's just not true. manhood suffrage was long established before the First World War and ordinary people were very involved in the political process, far more than Americans at the time.

[@paulkoza8652]

Nice job Garrett. I am a pessimist at heart.

[@MM22966]

Maybe it would be easier to list ways America is UNLIKE Rome: -No worries about military invasion. We have an unarmed border with Canada and while Mexico is a problem from time to time, it isn't the Celts, Goths, Vandals, Huns, etc coming across with fire & sword. -No history of military intervention in the political process. (In fact, we have the exact opposite of that, thanks to George Washington and others) -Stable currency/powerful economy. We can't be undermined nowadays with mass counterfeiting. -Foreign policy is not dependent on conquering new lands for settlement/slaves/booty/etc. -Not vulnerable to plagues to the level of destroying the social fabric/military security. (COVID doesn't count, and Romans would have laughed at us) -Easy upward social mobility, so less Patrician/Plebe dynamic. -Stable food supply from internal sources -No history of provinces revolting except the Civil War, which is a good record compared to both the Republic and Empire over the same period. What else am I forgetting?

[@theeccentrictripper3863]

You forgot our ability to instantly communicate and coordinate across the entirety of the empire in the blink of an eye, I can't even imagine what Majorian would do with that kind of power.

[@MM22966]

@@theeccentrictripper3863 AVE!

[@-V-_-V-]

Yes Source: my eyes

[@SC-gw8np]

Someone will say you made a nonsensical comment because you did not cite a source soon.😅

[@MichelsWorte]

Ethnic replacement through low birth rates and massive migration are the main parallel, and that argument is sound.

[@Psiber_Syn]

History doesn't necessarily repeat, but it often rhymes.

[@JosephPercente]

History never repeats itself, but you can gain insights from it.

[@UNrDD]

He said nothing of the debasement of the currency and the threat of nuclear weapons.

[@grimaffiliations3671]

dollar is stronger than its been in a long time

[@Nwmguy]

How is the currency being debased? Please don't say something about the gold standard 😂

[@1685Violin]

​@@NwmguyMass printing of money leading to hyperinflation.

[@Anamericanhomestead]

We are 35 Trillion in debt with a yearly deficit of 2 Trillion with no monetary metals remaining in circulation. Our hyper inflation will dwarf the Romans.

[@Nwmguy]

​@@1685Violinjust tax the excess back from the ultra wealthy. Problem solved.

[@QuantumHistorian]

In short: people who know little history always compare the present to the only bit of history they have any familiarity with, and think themselves wise for making a superficial analogy based on a deeply flawed understanding.

[@RodrickMarsMoon]

Exactly what I was thinking, here. I admit I'm a little guilty of that too, since I always compare the decline of my country and of the USA with The Handmaid's Tale due to some of the similarities 🤗😅.

[@RichMitch]

Are you liking your own comments?!

[@QuantumHistorian]

@@RichMitch Yes, I liked it 4 times in 8 minutes apparently

[@bird.9346]

Yup. There's certainly parallels you can draw, and history generally rhymes, but to make such bold claims is often short sighted

[@jl696]

Our republic was modeled on the Roman Republic. Our architecture in Washington D.C is modeled on Ancient Rome. Is it no wonder that comparisons have always been made between the two civilizations?