IS ANALOG SUMMING NECESSARY ??!??!

[@nikolamijovic3925]

The side signal difference might come from soft synths - which in turn might have randomized phase, and if they are not flattened / frozen - their phase will always be random. The reverb tail tells the same story - the diff we hear is only the 'randomness' in the reverb algorithm. But direct A to B definitely sounds the same, I really couldn't tell one is better or even different from the other.

[@Jonsine]

yes 100% which makes summing even less relevant for example the vocals that are audio are almost entirely gone

[@NickAnanas]

have a second listen, just look at the kick knock with the bass, the difference is moving. I mean it's sound more alive and engaging with B.

[@woolrich020]

​@@NickAnanas I believe that's confirmation bias kicking in. This was the most honest summing review to date, and any and all level matched, blind AB tests point to the same: the difference is minute. Dope to hear a great sounding mix and producting for the test purposes as well, @Jonsine -

[@mixphantom0101]

I view your videos with my B&W802 mastering monitors and I clearly heard the width expand - same on BeyerDynamic headphones. Your discovery of "mainly on the sides" says it all... it's not even necessarily wider, just less smeared. I guarantee your AD/DA conversion isn't responsible. The next time you do a test, use a loop so your A and B sections are identical... and make sure the stereo FX, like reverb, has it's own pair of summing channels. I've found that summing 4 stereo "busses" is very subtle but summing 16 stereo busses is quite noticeable. You need more channels!

[@HamsterGames]

i agree you have to loop a section to hear such intricacies better

[@ari-pekkalaukkanen6848]

@mixPHANTOM I must agree with you.

[@albertorolon137]

Agree

[@kirksullivan8713]

if you really want the analog sound, get a 24 tape machine and bounce your tracks to tape then back to your DAW! Not only that but you’ll get more separation than you were experiencing now, you will definitely hear the difference between digital and analog!

[@Its24KARAT]

When you say bounce your tracks to tape, you mean, put the 24 tape on every bus, then extract them bro?

[@valerietayfun3006]

​@@Its24KARATanswer?

[@jgooch99]

I believe analog summing matters when you want to actually saturate the signal As in affect, If you want to signal clean it makes sense to stay in the box. People use Neeve products to add saturation/ Harmonic distortion to the signal.

[@shevyjohn9308]

Major difference between clean and clinical most ITB mix even properly mixed still sounds flat and 2D Summing. Gives 3D sounds that’s not done will in the box

[@mickynoise]

Is not the static result. When you mix through box you make different decisions. You will feel that mix gels easier and you will need less plugins to make something right. This is the biggest advantage of using analog summing (the more channels the better) i use 2bus and dbox (24ch of summing) and makes big difference "when you mix through that"

[@woolrich020]

All accurate tests so far point to near-nulling, meaning, just like which a ton of things audio-related, the difference might just be in your head. Pre 64-bit float DAW's I would have agreed with you, but since then, I'd much rather mix ITB with a vast array of VST's than on the SSL or Neve desks I used to work on.

[@fredericfx5352]

I heard the difference, B = better separation et spacialisation of instruments

[@pianonoir997]

and less top end

[@deadislander]

@@pianonoir997 agreed

[@deadislander]

agreed, i hear it too

[@eriksmeets9254]

I turned on this video on my TV while I was reading something. I heard a clear difference between A and B in the stereo image without looking. No joke. I preferred B right away

[@Jrel]

I liked B as well, but I'd really like to be able to download both wavs and switch between them myself.

[@mattevans1427]

@@Jrel me too

[@benjaminzagar4626]

You need to clip the analog summing mixer to get the magic of analog summing! Difference is noticable. Also: HEADROOM is way bigger on summing mixer It can make a big difference when later mastering the track. So actually you have one more clipper in chain for mix with more headroom which can get you louder master!

[@shevyjohn9308]

Yep I got the neve orbit I can push it to get higher rms which makes it easier to get louder masters when mastering and it glues the track. I will use less plugins

[@mosermichael4404]

I own the SPL Mixdream XP myself and love the neutral sound of the Summing amp! And you can definitely hear the difference. Better crossover frequency among the instruments, more defined low-end as well as presenter high-proportion. What struck me the last time. The analog summing mix is at the same dbfs value. Just punchy and feels like !! Compared digital in the box vs digital to analog summing to digital! 😉

[@jheronimusduko7998]

2 thoughts: 1- Did you first stem out the song? Or did you test it with all the plugins still on the project? Plugins like reverb and synths try to randomize the sound. So that's why I'm asking. 2 - try also running the in the box mix trough the confurters just master bus. With just 2 cables. So the in the box and out the box summing is going though the same converters. Thank you for your content!

[@tuffycampbell]

You're spot on @5:57 - The conversion is gonna be more impactful than summing! If you are considering buying gear yall, get a better 1. Converter (AD/DA) 2. Summing 3. Mix Buss. That will lead you to the best journey of upgrades.

[@fededj2002]

People who don't hear the difference between analog and digital summing definitely need ear training. It is absolutely a night and day difference in terms of depth and separation, not to mention how the bass has way more space in the analog domain.

[@shevyjohn9308]

I also think it’s jealously not saying you can’t have nice records ITB but using analog give it more glue that plugins don’t do well . Also better rms so that one can have louder masters also more 3D than in the box

[@TonyThomas10000]

I can't hear a difference. The reason folks use API, Neve and other vintage consoles for summing is because they utilize transformers that adds a certain type of pleasing harmonics when the core saturates. )Some of the most prized transformers were/are made by Jensen.) You may want to try overdriving the summing amp a bit to see if you get those saturation harmonics. If I am going for that type of sound, I just use Wave plugins like Shoeps OmniChannel and CLA MixHub.

[@pablocantero6091]

The interaction between the kick and bass sounds much better with analog summing. Stereo separation is more apparent with summing.

[@woolrich020]

lol the kick and bass nulled out bro

[@tofsten]

If you want to avoid the conversions making a difference, you can output the logic summed mix and record it from 2 inputs from the same converter. You’ll have the same amount of conversions between both versions.

[@AforAleph]

I use a Neve 5060 box - i find summing through it gives me a good few db of headroom over my logic in the box mix (and I always use the Neve silk which sounds very nice to my ears) - so it really depends on the box you are using.

[@leoelias77]

I could hear the difference. Surprisingly A sounded wider (i wasnt expecting that) and B sounded with more depth with a slightly darker tone. An idea to test the converter would be to patch output signal directly to the input.

[@calving3867]

Not only can you hear a difference, but the summing mixer is also about being able to introduce your analog gear onto multiple busses and have those sum before AD conversion. Furthermore, the AD conversion twice argument doesn't really hold up, a high end AD converter is probably more accurate than a digital mix engine. The AD converter just measures voltage over time, and the mix engine just compares the significance of bits and chooses the most significant bit which gives a lot more room for error than what the A/D converter does.

[@aya_mixing]

Warren Huart did a demo of the Rupert Neve Design summing device and there clearly was a difference. But it mainly comes when you drive it hot, nice harmonic distorsion

[@woolrich020]

well, yeah, saturation, compression, distortion are useful tools in a mixers' arsenal, which is why we use those tools a lot ITB as well as analog outboard still in heavy use

[@dekode1857]

How about sending the signal out your interface and directly again into it. Then compare it with the external summing. This way you put the AD/DA-Conversion out of the equation...

[@mattevans1427]

Yesssss

[@mattevans1427]

Include the cabels aswell

[@quantika72]

You need to get the new summing modules from Neve, you’ll hear a significant difference in warmth and separation. Also the bottom is way fuller and in your face.

[@szeredaiakos]

It is amazing what a couple of cheap tube amps can do.

[@mikloskovacs3734]

i’m using an SPL Mixdream XP with pretty cheap converters actually and i have to say there’s a huge but small difference. for me it just creates more space stereo and depth wise. the effect is more obvious when more acoustic instruments are involved. not to say that it’s not possible to make a great or even better mix with digital summing. it’s just a way of working, and having used it, i personally feel like i have more room to move with it.

[@tcos332]

“Andy the gear guy is, like the most pro guy when it comes to audio…” Well now I have to hear Andy “The Gear Guy” after such a profound and compelling analysis!

[@mickynoise]

Even on this static A from B has big difference and was relieved that B was summing. The feel is great on B.

[@justinward6853]

me too I wasnt expecting the answer to come so quickly but I was sure that B was the summing and was hoping I was right too. wanted to hear a second pass to confirm but the answer made me relax

[@Somedei]

Bass and kick more present , like it was at 192 and the A was at 48, deepfield greater on B, take a headphones listen Jon, the space that is making on the whole sound gives clarity to the rest of sounds so they dont sound all in one area. What gear you are using running the summing ?

[@faterix7737]

i did... theres more random artefacts/texture. i know this because i spent almost a month with geeking about how to make digital plugins sound "analogish" (key is various randomizing LFOS in small amount to filter pitch also phase(of osc) and everthing else which is a separate unit in a synth ). it's NOT vodoo. people who work analog will recognize, so thats a plus.

[@FrancisJoa]

The effect of analog summing becomes more obviously the more seperate channels you can bring out to your mixer/summing box. For example if you only have 8 analog output channels on your interface which you can sum with a summing device the effect will be small but if you have for example 32 or even more channels then the difference between in the box and analog summing becomes big. The more channels you can bring out and sum, the bigger the effect of analog summing will be.

[@tommino8970]

To be possible to make exact measurement of D/A -> A/D pathway, all converters need to have external Word Clock to run synchronously. The "Color" which is (by somebody) heard, is coming mainly from phase shifts, done in A/D or D/A and also, every channel has in analog path filter components, which have some precision, so again, it's like very small EQ and every EQ has again phase shift(s), which can be precept as "dimension" in the sound. You can try to run pure sinus/saw/square through the chain and then we will see real signal. Don't forget to use 48kHz, because 44.1 is not ideal for exact tone frequency like 440 or 1kHz.

[@MervinRijo]

If you try summing with another summing that has Discrete Opamps on every input, which they are Dirtier than normal chip opamps and coupled with transformer at the masters, you might find that is a bit difference. Just my opinion, but at the end of the day, No matter what Gear you have if the song is bad, at the end Normal Listener wont give a rat a$$ what gear was used. Great videos as Always Jon

[@SirMixAlotChannel]

I sum both ways but, when summing analog am I summing something that already has that glue people speak of? Nope! I usually sum externally when the track sounds and feels sterile and/or flat. I intentionally drive into the transformers and I get a very pleasing saturation. Admittedly, it's far more obvious on live drums etc. (which I seldom record anymore). Also, the perceived space/widening when analog summing or mastering is also very pleasing. Is it worth the cost difference? Hell No!!

[@theprofoundidiot5642]

The voodoo episodes need to keep coming and I think the converter test would be great to see as a next episode!

[@badmonkeymusicproductions3569]

I think that summing has its place only if the hardware is trying to do something, e.g. Folcrum passive summing driving through pres, Burl, or thermionic culture bustard. Was always skeptical of 'cleaner' summing devices.

[@AOEarlobe]

I fully agree with your summation. If you want clean, stay digital. It’s all about the harmonics you get when you can drive into a unit like an old analog console with a nearby noise floor.

[@badmonkeymusicproductions3569]

@@AOEarlobe Warren Huart (Aerosmith, Produce Like a Pro) said that he wouldn't consider summing unless there was a transformer per channel - like a CAPI summing channel. To each their own.

[@JavierCarrilloMilla]

I think you are on to something but to me what makes more sense is the AD conversion on the way back of the summing. So digital goes into analog which sums it and then on the way back get bit-sized again. At 7:42 where you compare the kicks is clear that the DAW conversion is more consistent (space between squares is evenly spaced) while on the bottom I see the square divisions are different. Specially after the second "mountain" comparing daw and conversion + summing. L and R channels on the DAW look the same but on the conversion + summing they don't. It could all be dammed though if logic doesn't paint it well enough or with enough accuracy to save processor time but let's say it does 😄

[@deetee3064]

You can take the DA/AD out of the equation by just sending the plain signal out and back in. Then you can see what effect the conversion is having , I can guess now it’s going to introduce done noise/artifacts

[@musicgalaxy8832]

Great video. I understand your point. I have the Burl B32 and every time I don't use it I miss it. Most of the time the details are in the frequencies we don't hear, because our body is like a big ear. I found out that when I listen carefully trying to decide if there is at all a difference, I don't hear any. But when I don't listen carefully I always like analog summing more. Good analogue, unfortunately for our wallets :))) always wins at the end and yes...I believe you'll miss it once you won't use it for a while. But again, this is my opinion.

[@koffergriff4759]

For proper null test you have to time aligne both tracks on sample base Any kind of (random) modulation effects will make an huge difference. Differences in volume even very smal ones will make a difference

[@cliffordsouthern1243]

There was a slight difference. The summing mix and a little more separation that was more noticable in the low end.

[@jacobsoto8032]

is it possible to record the phase difference as a song......then compare that recording to both A) and B) with inverted phase....then see which of the two it affects.....this should distinguish which one is the one causing the sound change......could be 1% difference but do the same thing with the cables and other devices and that 1% willl add up to another 5-7% overall

[@MELOPSMUSIC]

Nice ! well , do you think one of the interest to get a summing device is that you can easily insert hardware no ?

[@Elazarko]

Hey Jon. I'm really getting into playing piano now. I've been playing for around 6 years now and finally starting to see impressive pro results if you ask me. Now Im looking for a pair of QUALITY headphones to use for practice when people are sleeping in my house. If you were to buy one pair of closed back and one open back headphone, what paris would you get for practicing sessions? Around $250 each.. if there's a pair that can be good for general music enjoyment/watching films and piano/Rhodes that would be ideal!

[@mazy-beats]

Wenn es einen hörbaren & positiven Effekt gibt, wäre die nächste Frage, ob die digitalen Pendants (zB der Virtual Mixbus von Slate Digital) einen ebenso guten Job machen oder genauso unnötig sind.

[@gunnarschuettler]

Ich kann auf jeden Fall deitliche Unterschieder im Klangbild erreichen mit den Slate-VirualBus VST. Schön ist auch, dass man den Drive global für alle Kanäle einstellen kann. Ist aber ein komplett anderer Style beim mixen als ohne virtualBus und manchmal sogar garnicht so geil :D

[@carlosdias1043]

Your right on the AD/DA, even per channel bouncing is different. I think in this example they sound much different. Which one is better, is debatable. For me I have a Sigma and the only reason I use any kind summing is for how you can drive it. Haven't really used the SPL much but I did like the width on it.

[@Gianluccazz]

How about the stereo image of sigma compared to this one? Its very interesting piece of gear.

[@alborzmousapour3446]

the reality is,you can get result of ANALOG summing or consoles with plugins but get touch times,im the fan of Analog and you can mix a track exactly in 3 hours at least without any fulse things, but its not meaning that you can't mix same with plugins ,more important diffrent is in saturations that's it

[@wdkbeats]

A is slightly brighter, in a nice way. B is duller in the highs, transients become blurry. Preferred the A.

[@IliasPanteliasGR]

A = Sound more accurate, music makes more sense. B = Sounds wider but without sense. Nearly phasy. Tested with Headphones and Prism Sound interface.

[@DystopianOwl]

Yes, there was a difference between A and B. Easily audible through KZbin compression and shitty headphones. B was deeper and wider compared to A. It's the imperfection that happens when it goes out to the summing box and back that makes it enjoyable and pleasing imo. Also, depending on what summing device you use, the difference would be more apparent.

[@jeanpierreisyou2]

Conversion is prob the most important. I just switched to the Burl system (B80 Mothership), the difference was SOOO massive between that and my Apogee Symphony MKii. 24v, Class A Discrete circuits make a huge difference. It's basically a console in a conversion box.

[@DreTheEngineer]

Which card did you have insymphony?

[@jeanpierreisyou2]

@@DreTheEngineer I had a 16x16S2, 8x8S2 and a 2x6SE for monitoring. The Burl blew away everything, including monitoring, I can hear details I never heard before

[@MurnerJoel]

I was listenning with earpods and the summing felt smoother, the voice was more audible ... small difference but just sounded more radio ready

[@mikloskovacs3734]

i understand there’s no better way for this comoarison but ideally you’re mixing through a summing mixer and because of that you’re probably making different decisions than you would with ITB summing. mixes i’m doing with analog summing usually sound shit with ITB summing, and mixes created with ITB summing doesn’t always sound better with analog summing.

[@unknownuser6574]

just by hearing A and B i felt like B is better and i am listening with AirPods. But maybe it was just trigged by the stereo hihat hitting close after switching to B. Or maybe my brain is thinking B must sound different from A, because my eyes can see the change to B. Edit: In tomorrows Episode Jon will tell us A and B are both from the DAW :D

[@dsquareddan]

The A/B test is kind of useless with KZbin's compression of audio. at least for the us watching to be able to tell a difference

[@pianonoir997]

Did you compensate for latency while going for the phase flip test?

[@Jonsine]

Yes

[@pianonoir997]

Wow i did not expect the difference to be that noticable! I also went for an analog summing unit out of curiosity a while ago. i had issues with the stereofield in the beginning since i bougt a used one. (might also be the explanaition for the huge difference in the side signal in your flip test now as i am thinking of it) I went for cleaning it to get rid of them and now its just really close to digital summing. It was some sort of a learning experience. I can use it now but i need to measure the stereo field every time to see if its working out. So i might stick to coloring individual sounds and see if its worth it. It has an included stereo compressor, and a limiter. So that is some added value. And i enjoy playing with them since they are easy to acces. So thats fun. As far as i got it, it does not matter if you use analog or digital summing. Both can work perfectly. An analog summing device can add stuff in the signal path that degrades the sound in a possibly pleasing way. But that the effect of adding stuff to the signal part and it has nothing to do with summing working better in the analog world. There are people arguing online that digital summing is flawed and that should be wrong.

[@pianonoir997]

Companies earn a golden thumb from selling you unnecessary equipment that does little to your mixes but charge a ****ton of money. Some gear sluts user said that relatet to the topic. xD

[@jorgedejesustejedavaldez5283]

The B sound a little bit more glue, with a slightly boost in the Low end. Also feel a little bit more warmer. Is not that big difference but is there.

[@marlonmoneda12]

Ill partly agree and say that with my analog summing rig, even seasoned musicians cannot tell the difference. On the other hand I hear a huge difference, and that particularly on my rig (which is a bit more advanced than simply a summing mixer) it is the depth and 3D -ness of the sound. With in the box summing, I hear a flat wall of sound extending left to right that is pristine and precise. There is no up and down axis of perception, there is no depth perception as it relates to something near or far away in a stereo space. Flat wall. The guitar sounds like it theoretically is placed to the right, but there is no perception it is actually “there” to my brain. Like even when I close my eyes, my brain goes “yeah thats totally fake” When I run the same digital audio through my extensive summing rig all of a sudden the flat wall of sound changes shape and is concave and wraps around me from left to right in a curve and expands to an amazing sound scape forward and back. And as I listen left to right I hear things that are far away as distant and elements that are up front as “right there”. If I close my eyes, I can literally see the girl shaking the tambourine in the back of the room as I look upon the band around me. The biggest difference? Vertical scale imaging. I suddenly can hear things as up and down in addition to near and far and left and right. The result: with my rig and in my reflection free zone I feel like if I close my eyes, I can literally hear the entire band in front of me as if they are there and I am standing there in the room. Wow. Pretty life changing to experience from 2 speakers. We are not talking surround sound! Anyway, getting back to the previous point! Ive listened to these exact mixes on Alexa’s and on ear buds and iphone speakers, and though I can subtly hear that depth, not a single one of my musician friends can hear the difference. So I imagine the random consumer will have no clue. Perhaps they will subconsciously feel the difference but Im not sure they will actively know why.

[@MilenaEtc]

i remember like 10 years ago people that i knew they would do summing with the Golden Age comp, like it was absolutely necessary

[@fw.jordey3852]

The stereo field was wider and softer on the sides it feels better to me with the summing box

[@mattevans1427]

The hihats sounded smoother in Analogue summing I believe

[@Datacustic]

Used to work on spl mixdream xp. Could not justify really hear a difference. Sold it. Then I was listening again to pure daw output again and then I missed something suddenly. A little grit was gone. Got a used dangerous dbox. Never looking back now.

[@TerriBradshaw-d6h]

B = Summing, Has Better seperation as it should. Maybe once you understand what its purpose it then youll recognise the difference for what it is. Its one Small stwp in the overall Mastering process.

[@hithere4289]

And to consider the fact that some summing devices cost over $3,000 dollars... Yeah, I don't think so! I mean maybe it does help more on fully recorded music, but not on electronic music

[@bluematrix5001]

The difference is that the Summing sounds slightly Wider, your conclusions are incorrect, because the summing is not passing a stereo channel (like the Kick) is about what happens between the Stems....now is summing necessary? NO..... but if you use analog gear eventually you will understand why summing can be great...also I see you are just new to analog gear, so is a process to really understand how all the gear integrates into a summing box..... but again..is not necessary...

[@MELOPSMUSIC]

That s what i was thinking about : do you think it would be really interesting to get a spl mixdream and : before the mixer insert my hardaware on stems coming out of my daw , and of course use my neve 1073 preamps after the mixer ? Another nice summing mixer must be the stam audio , it offers the possibility to select Cinemag or Carnhill transformers on output (or a clean output) . Thx

[@bluematrix5001]

@@MELOPSMUSIC the first summing box I tried was the SPL mixdream, against the equinox, in 45 secs understood hated the plastic sound of that mixdream, got it because I thought was cool, gave it a try again, same thing…. Maybe the Stam Is better… mix dream has cool features but i did not like at all the sound …

[@MELOPSMUSIC]

@@bluematrix5001 ok thx, never heard the spl has a specific sound

[@rundance_out]

Sorry but i cant take your judgment serious anymore! I could even hear the diffrence on my ipad. Checking back with headphone / speakers the diffrence is 100% clear. B sounds more open and wider!

[@ezstproductions_]

What converters/ interface?

[@IvanLopeztruco]

inmediately heard the difference!!! B is the winner. You should try to put your Kick in Mono (real mono) in the summing no using two channels for the kick. Then you will hear the difference. If you did´t like the gear you can send it to me. I´ll pay for the shipping

[@tan9532]

My perspective analog gives a more classic "warmth" feeling in a mix. I only own one piece of analog hardware (2nd hand) but you can really tell the difference compare to virtual plugin. However, most of the original analog hardware is quite hard to get or not there are super expensive from my country of course. But yeah, If you have the money go for analog instead for bedroom producer you can stick with digital plugin.

[@putte_stuttgart]

Superb video, thanks for that. I like and appreciate your humility. One more subscriber. :)

[@bluematrix5001]

I tried the SPL Mixdream vs the Shadow Hill Equinox, and the SPL sounded so plasticky, hated it!....now I use a Dangerous Music 2 Bus +

[@MELOPSMUSIC]

i have an Orbit summing mixer, and if you push it, it s great

[@trayoibry8246]

Great Video, Hope there is comming more also with driving harder and clipping vs. Clip and Limiting in the Box

[@AOEarlobe]

Jon, Summing will depend on how you drive your outputs into the summing device. But, it will depend on what unit you have and the type of saturation circuit in it.. Valve/Transformer.. like you, I have the SPL, which you have to run into it a little hotter to get the nice saturation that will make that 5% difference.. The best summing device new on the market that you will hear immediately is the new Neve 5057..(check out Warren’s Huart review and test 24bit files for download). There are some truths to understand as well.. You will get better results if you used a better DAC on your input return chain.. like a Dangerous 2bus + (at your level you should be using something like it.. not the SPL.. No offence but their DAC’s can’t compare). But, because you are using the Bettermaker limiter you can add the harmonics you want. In my eyes you are now a pro, like it or not. You are successful at what you do.. the best improvement you can make to your setup would not be summing but a better cleaner mastering grade 2 channel DAC..

[@ELPLAK]

"(at your level you should be using something like it.. not the SPL.. No offence but their DAC’s can’t compare)" SPL is a summing devise, it does not have converters. I have the same model. The summing mixer is one of the best around in terms of quality and transparency. You can use saturation in so many other ways. Neve is just one of them.

[@AOEarlobe]

@@ELPLAK I think you have pictured the wrong element from my point of view. Transparent summing has its sound, separation width definition.. but a lot of that can also be done in the box.. There is no right way.. looking at Jon’s songs.. there are not that many elements and thus it would be more difficult to hear some of what I have outlined. I feel that he is looking for a noticeable difference.. to be fair, he loses some of the clarity gained from summing if he is using sub par DAC’s (non mastering grade Dacs) when printing. I have an SPL if I drive it harder I get noticeable saturation. If I keep my levels at unity i get the clarity.. I hear a clear difference when printing using my 2bus+ than when printing using my Apollo X16. You are indeed correct there are many ways to get saturation.. I use many, like a Sa2rate 2, SSL fusion and Nail 2.. And I also get equal results mixing in the Box. It always depends on the best tools I feel I need to do the Job at hand. I believe Jon is going down his road to find his truth. Ultimately it’s his decision that counts.

[@ELPLAK]

@@AOEarlobe I agree with you 100%, I just probably misunderstood when you mentioned the SPL and the Dangerous device. I like to use the SPL with a Wesaudio Dione before getting back to the daw. I am planning to get the Dangerous converters or the Prism Sound Lyra. Thank you for the response.

[@AOEarlobe]

@@ELPLAK That’s a good combination you have. I might recommend an EQ in MS mode after the Wess..

[@riktascale4]

Yes l heard a difference but l don't know how significant it will be for us as casual listeners to music. I don't think much. 🤣🤣 "the gear guy"

[@naolinear]

Hi, try to send the kick on one out only and select mono on the mixdream for that channel

[@Zenvo-uu9tm]

I would redo the test but keep it blind A/B. And you'll be surprised how much of those spotting huge difference would be able to spot the hardware. In this test the difference is very subtle.there are other summing device that have more sonic print(exp Tegeler TSM) Summing can be beneficial with large track count or integrating outboard into it Thanks for video

[@timsagtnein7864]

I love these scetches with the gear guy! So entertaining

[@DJFxallMixX]

Andy is the Man. Hope he brings you an awesome present in return.

[@Johnnyhaag79]

I do most of my final masters through my Elektron Analog Heat MKII on usually just the clean boost or the saturation with only like 50-70% of the wet mixed in. Gives the tracks a nice bit of analog glue. :)

[@domdraper3221]

Get some analog preamps and check the difference.

[@lowspotsound721]

I heard a clear difference in the stereo field and I actually liked the DAW better 🤔

[@shinji1264]

😂😂😂

[@dailydemusic]

You should use summing device with audio transformers. Other is just transparent

[@ggkan9169]

That's why nowdays more and more studios use soundcards with good AD/DA for summing their tracks :).

[@mattevans1427]

Is Jon Sine Souncard good enough? Maybe that's the problem. Not getting enough clarity due to lack of super high quality AD DA?

[@DalleyMusic]

Try analog summing using mic preamps! That's where your missing what your trying to achieve!

[@Jonsine]

Mic press video coming soon

[@MELOPSMUSIC]

I have 2 1073 preamp eq racks, would be great to chain them at the output of a spl mixdream ? Thx

[@klvAcosta]

I had the dangerous dbox + and I really enjoyed it specially it features, but I have to upgrade to the SSL Sigma because I need it more i/o and yes, that’s when you can hear the difference! SSL Sigma for me!!!!

[@jorgedejesustejedavaldez5283]

Hahahah i love the Gear Guy 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@adissabovic]

0:53 "There is no way to do summing in the box" Summing is a math operation (one of four basic ones!), not physical, not electrical, and can only be done "ITB".

[@Jonsine]

forgot to say "analog summing" but I'm sure you know what I meant

[@hantaimatyas842]

Hello 👋 I made a cinematic/deep house track on a fairly bad headphones with a seemingly enough bass, but played on speakers it is really top heavy, I don’t really know how to solve, can you give me some tip? Highly appreciated. :D

[@BakerSynth]

For EDM, summing is not as important. I can hear a difference but it is minimal. I have 32-40 channels off SSL summing and there is a big difference. But I do more than basic EDM. In the end, it is a personal preference, but there is a difference.

[@raymondfranklynDJ]

I can't hear a difference between A & B. Edit - After another listen B does have a bit more better separation.

[@tonycannatamusic]

Summing is bullshit. If you want to alter the sound just add another tape plugin. Whats important is a good front end, good preamps and converters.

[@FrancisJoa]

Summing is not bullshit. Analog summing gives you more width and depth in your mix and this is a proven fact.

[@shevyjohn9308]

@@FrancisJoahe has. Ad hearing

[@instrugramm]

Damn... I'm from the "summing is vodoo" camp but heard a difference between A and B... I preferred B.

[@martijn_nl]

B sounded more 3D and transparent to my ears. More pleasant to the ears.

[@coolaid5272]

this was my first thought as well... especially on the first a-b change... but the point of the track might have influenced it...

[@robbiesoukiasyan937]

digital summing sounds better to me

[@lilian896]

Thanks for this episode on summing. 🛸⁉️

[@brianlespoir6287]

Exporting your song in Logic is digital summing.

[@brianlespoir6287]

@Max Murphy Watch the video again

[@luigidaniellmusic]

Hi JOn !!!! B = better definition in low / 45hrz to 1500 have better definition ( kick better consistent ) in % , B = 8% better Salu2! Jon PD : very important AD-DA , use Rosseta apogee 800 192 / apogee Synpony OR Lyns Aurora 16 they Have Better result for DEDICATE AD-DA convertion dont use this funtion from Audio Interface

[@magmakum4628]

I need an Andy too, where did you get it?

[@Genital.Wartzenegger]

I'd be interested in hearing a busier song and multiple a/b passes.

[@flm5910]

Really happy that someone think exactly the same at me!!! 😂🙏🙏😁

[@symbolicsoul290]

where can we order our own andy the gear guy?

[@deeppc]

Try BURL AUDIO B 32 VANCOUVER, you will hear a difference

[@matt_nyc_audioengineer]

No, I don't really hear much of a difference. Maybe a tiny bit it certainly doesn't justify the cost or effort needed to sum in the analog domain.

[@tofsten]

It is strange I can hear a significant difference on the part of the video when you just show A and B not telling which one it is. On this part I definitely hear more weight on the bass and softer highs. Once it reached the part when you say “summing” and “daw”, I can not hear any difference!