Is APHE Overpowered In War Thunder?

Here is a short clip showing just how powerful aphe is over any other ammo in War Thunder.

[@icy3-1]

Haha tiny nuclear ball of death in tank go boom

[@randomstuff4997]

soviet 57mm APHE goes insanely hard

[@U.S_Drifter]

Boom

[@trololl27029]

Bro the next video i saw was about a nuclear bomb

[@tangohotel2599]

Realistically the shrapnel from the APHE exploding would be in a cone shape, not a sphere

[@LittlePenguin1-17]

only in Sweden tree APHE in explodes in a cone shape.

[@Kwisss]

@@LittlePenguin1-17 Was for a time. I played it recently and its a sphere.

[@LittlePenguin1-17]

@@Kwisss they changed it

[@TheRealSteve42]

That isn’t true. The explosive charge is in the center of the rear of the shell, there’s no reason why it would only go forwards, it is not a HEAT warhead

[@Skykid3307]

​@TheRealSteve42 Irl heat shells mostly fire shrapnel in a cone. This is basically univeral, I don't know the specifics but, I don't think nations were able to get APHE to explode like that before the shells became obsolete

[@spidersaremean8917]

Realistically APHE irl was genuinely very bad. It was mainly just used for ships, tanks mainly just used solid shot AP rounds.

[@humanhuman5024]

This isn’t true. Badly made rounds were bad but that’s the case with every round. Reality was it was just more expensive and harder to make than a solid shot thus most nations other than the Germans and late Soviet designs used them.

[@CMepTb7426]

​@@humanhuman5024 plus the fuze that needed to be designed to break and arm as soon as it hits the armor would cause duds or bad rounds to this dudes opinion

[@humanhuman5024]

@@CMepTb7426 no that was mainly the case with Russian shells as they were badly designed but so were most of the solid round shells from them as well.

[@micahklein2627]

Does everyone forget about Shockwave damage? Yes the APHE should have a more cone shape when it detonates but the explosive shockwave in a tightly confined area like a tank would wound or kill the crew. In June 1944-April 1945 there was 502 American tanks lost to gunfire, 579 crew casualties from gunfire, 24% of the crew lost, 22% commander deaths, 21% gunner deaths, 20% driver deaths, 20% bow gunner deaths, and 17% cannoneer deaths; the death percentage is slightly lower due to light tanks not having a cannoneer. 346 tanks were burned, 552 were not burned

[@SeanFicken]

iirc about 80% of the energy from the charge is used in breaking the shell, there isn't a strong shock wave, let's not forget that the actual amount of explosive used in APHE rounds isn't exactly high, it may rupture ear drums though*. i believe there is also a situation where a tank took a hit from an HE round through a drivers hatch and it killed the turret crew but the machine gunner survived (the driver took the shot in the head though so he was definitely dead)

[@shiningamaterasu2579]

Fun fact, irl solid shot had simular post pen damage to aphe cause of spalling

[@zeloth7]

Yep. Americans not only said it was similar. It was indistinguishable

[@ZacharyDavidMartyn]

Realistically the other shells should perform better at thicker and more sloped armor but it just doesn’t work that way in game so APHE it up!

[@Conraf]

good thing gaijin is in the process of changing it to what it should be: more like solid AP but with a cone of additional fragments in the direction of the round and not like the sphere it is now

[@SeanFicken]

It's based on player vote, I really hope it passes as I find the handholding APHE makes transitioning to APDS a lot harder for people when they get to higher BR's.

[@Haaton-of-the-Basement]

​@@SeanFickenUnless they are British/French mains.

[@cjofulue5218]

British main here, and I hate every second of the random APHE bouncing off the side of my turret and taking my entire crew offline ​@@Haaton-of-the-Basement

[@Haaton-of-the-Basement]

@@cjofulue5218 You tell me. I was playing Ground SB yesterday with the Australian AC.IV 17pdr and somehow Panzer IV, Italian Sherman and Captured T-34 were bouncing the sh*t out of my Shell with flipping 190mm of pen. Like seriously it did not make any sense but my Churchill VII somehow turned out to have like 300mm of pen cause i was penning everything even if they didn't die one shot.

[@michaelbryant4049]

According to the United States army, during the testing for APHE compared to AP the army found that the small coning was almost identical with no differences unless the APHE prefused. something or thunder doesn't get right is a APHE fusing

[@I_am_looking_for_GF]

The British did similar tests and found the same

[@crazedgamer5355]

I love when my round hits the ammo

[@LittlePenguin1-17]

Same, I love the fireworks effect to tossing the turret in the air

[@Thetruesuitguy]

Especially when it only makes ammo yellow

[@cjofulue5218]

I love when my APDS and APBC shells pass through 3-5 shells with no explosion, yet APHE grazes the side of my turret and I turn into a box shaped sparkler

[@CallofDutyBlackOps28]

and just makes the ammo useless and doesn't explode.

[@Thetruesuitguy]

@@CallofDutyBlackOps28 Even better if it's only yellow 🤗🤭

[@grand6master]

I'll tell you what's broken. It's CAS!

[@nade5557]

CAS is only broken because the gamemode is broken. 1 cap and an assist gives you a flying tank farming simulator

[@DecayLe4]

@@nade5557 i completely agree with this, except i still feel CAS should be more medium difficulty to get, as if you limit the top 50% of your team to CAS, they can mark tanks and destroy more valuable targets (like german tank destroyers etc) while not letting little jimmy who stole his teamates kill and cap get in his overpowered 2000 pound bomb lobbing fighter and murder everything

[@devlintaylor9520]

​@@DecayLe4I feel like cas should be grindable in ground battles, so more people have access to it. Makes AA actually have a use

[@tektier4009]

I think the idea that a 57mm Russian APHE is just as powerful as American 75, 76, and 90mm APHE is broken, but APHE in itself is not broken as it usually has much less armor pen that HEAT and APDS or even solid rounds

[@mashedpotato7219]

Thing is APHE has better angle penetration compared to APDS with most tanks having sloped armor. Not to mention shell shattering and the inconsistaint damage of APDS so APHE is just plain better in 98% of situations

[@twurtle12hd39]

Different levels of explosive filler causes that

[@dominiksoukal]

It is plain broken and does not work even close to how it works in real life.

[@cjofulue5218]

​@@mashedpotato7219in game yes. IRL...that's a different story 😅

[@BARelement]

How is it in any way equal to the 90mm APHE of the US. Please explain. Truly. The filler is so tiny you end up not one shitting PZ IVs. So pls tell me in what way.

[@Localnimation]

Yeah in realife they prefer solid shot bc its cheaper, and reliable, Also if u pen a tank in realife doesnot matter how many man u kill in there, the rest of the crew will just ditch the tank out of fear💀

[@dominiksoukal]

No, in real life, APHE does close to the same damage as AP.

[@Localnimation]

@@dominiksoukal yes, the damage will not as powerful as in warthunder, bc the sharpnel will be cone shape, But its not only about sharpnel, imagine something expload inside a xlose compartment, the shockwave and preasure?, It will atleas make the ear and nose bleeding not forget the brain damage feom the shockwave, So even if u didnt get hit by any of those spalling, the shockwave will still bouncing arround the close compartment, APHE also have a high chance of dud, it did not explode inside instead it explode upon impact bc the armor is too thic or imperfection in production. Sorry bad english btw

[@Rain-ju2ge]

Gaijin: we will let the player to vote if we should change APHE from spherical damage to cone damage Also Gaijin: Left on the voting

[@l3_war_thunder]

Nah bro imagine APHEFSDS

[@ACGustaf]

The ammo wouldn’t even fuse on time bc of the speed 😂

[@andrewjack5755]

Already a thing but it’s not used

[@LeoMkII]

Mfs after getting a quarter of a kilo of tnt inside their tank be like "but da cone"

[@BARelement]

The video didn’t address the issues with APHE. It is broken in the sense it’s unrealistic. If it’s going be unrealistic just give every Ammo type before HEAT, and APFSDS HE filler at this point. Realism is already out the window. WHO ever opposes that is hanging onto a thread. No one can complain if everyone can one shot.

[@SeanFicken]

This is more about asking a question on people opinion, I don't think it's work explaining why it's unrealistic in short form content though.

[@birdbrainedboy]

“it doesn’t do that much damage” the propellant case that got destroyed: 💥

[@SeanFicken]

Relatively speaking :)

[@Boris_The_Turtle]

I know it’s supposed to explode in a more conical shape but, wouldn’t ricocheting fragments end up producing the same effect than the completely spherical explosion we have currently?

[@SeanFicken]

The fragments really wouldn't bounce the way you think they would, they would hit the back end and spread out, maybe if the fragments were perfect spheres they would ricochet around like you think. For more evidence the amount of US crews dying to penetrations was quite low with an average of 1.15 per tank loss 1.28 crew if the tank was burning and 0.78 if the tank wasn't. Mind you they were fighting German tanks, and those used APHE rounds.

[@BARelement]

@@SeanFickenAnd the only weak HE filler were the 75mms. But I presume shell quality, caused a lot to not even fuse at that point.

[@Философ]

​@@SeanFicken Only US sources aren't enough. Gotta compare them to others too

[@eggshapedisraelioperative6317]

@@Философthe Brits have a very detailed report on the matter, it is linked in a very good bug report on the forums that discusses APHE performance

[@velvetthundr]

If a grenade going off kills the whole crew, imagine shells at Mach 2.5 going through RHA and with a more explosive filler than a grenade does going off inside the tank.

[@SeanFicken]

A few issues here, most grenades have around 180+ grams of explosive filler, most APHE in game don't have that much, second thing, due to the shape of APHE projectiles they will not have a spherical fragmentation pattern in real life just based on that, then you add the forward momentum of the shell going above the speed of sound you have a even more conical fragmentation pattern. Lastly, the charge to mass ratio is significantly smaller than that of a grenade, as the walls of an APHE round are significantly thicker than that of a grenade a lot more of the energy from the filler is used just to break the shell apart.

[@BARelement]

@@SeanFickenisn’t M82 160 grams, and some shells are in the 180 - 200 + grams region I think. ApHE still shouldn’t work that way but yk.

[@kchapo_4202]

And the t95 why it’s getting wrecked by the new aphe is cuz what you said, shrapnel also the cupola is very close to where the crews are located so that would make sense that shrapnel would make it down that far in the lay out. We’re not fucked that bad like ppl are making it out

[@humanhuman5024]

I mean it also depends on if the spalling hits modules or internal armor that you cannot see in the armor indicator.

[@five_eleven_tac3393]

BR-472 my beloved

[@NicholasBova-wc4sx]

I killed a IS 3 in that spot with a hell cat doing 40 mph

[@LeoMkII]

The only based amurican ww2 tank, the Shermans are ugly

[@muhammadzaki2191]

Look the tnt equip in aphe is 2 150 grm tnt but stufter emil 200

[@teentitanss1845]

Gaijin is gonna make a poll about Aphe and if there gonna fix it. Aka make the shrapnel a cone instead of a ball. I'd say we all vote Yes on that

[@SeanFicken]

I really hope most of the player base votes yes on that, will see relatively soon I guess, as the road map mentions that will be during this summer.

[@eggshapedisraelioperative6317]

I am not optimistic, there are hordes of low-mid tier Russia/Germany players who are carried through the game by APHE performance. I don’t see them voting to get rid of their nuclear arsenal

[@yacinealg152]

That's why i avoid tanks that don't carry APCBC with explosive filler in Warthunder mobile It's the only effective ammo against tanks

[@BARelement]

Wrong. I play plenty of solid shot tanks. If you do well, it just displays your skill difference harder. APHE is ez mode lots if times. And gets boring alone

[@CatGamer747-8]

APHE my beloved only low tier friend

[@magicmidget1183]

The conqueror could just shoot directly into critical areas though 💪😤

[@aigaming4170]

Depend on how much tnt equivalent did the APHE have

[@Geskawary234]

as i know apfsds are overpowered too, they actually kinda like apds - they dont form that much spall. I wish gaijin just boosted every other round damage(heat, apds, ap) and it would be fine

[@TransNationNorthAmerica]

* super casual voice * "It killed 2 of the crew members and hit some ammo." 😂

[@MagoVenezolano]

This boy is the reincarnation of humility and humanity

[@lokikinch]

Realistically, it would have a delayed cone effect spraying shrapnel deeper into the vehicle, rather than just detonate in a full 360° radius while inside

[@janniklaue7767]

I can only agree to most comments, it is not broken, rather not realistically modeled as the explosion would face the direction of velocity in a cone shape rather than the tank grenade exploding to all sides equally

[@ambush_akula5261]

“Easy one shot” until your ammo is unable to penetrate the target (brought to you by solid shot/APDS gang)

[@The_ThunderMan]

In real life APHE exploded forward into a cone while in WT it sends shrapnel everywhere

[@NotSanakan]

Man, westerbros really want to spend 5-8 shots per tank and hate oneshot kills in general.

[@KekusMagnus]

I really hope they do not change it. APHE "one-shot" gameplay has been consistently the most fun part of WarThunder ground forces. It is completely unrealistic that a tank's crew would continue to operate as if nothing happened after a penetrating hit that knocked out half the crew. In general, post-penetration is very poorly modeled in warthunder. Instead of nerfing APHE, they need to buff the postpen of all other ammo types

[@dilbertdonges910]

Some thing that needs to be taken into account is reliability of ammo. Ammo is cheaply produced and meant to be expended, and in world war 2, ammunition that had complex functions were less than likely to actually work. This same concept can be seen in warthunders planes, where we see singular HE ammo from a 20mm cannon shred off the wings, tail, and knock out the entire crew of a B-17. War thunder functions in the sense that EVERY SINGLE SHOT is a perfectly made projectile with no faults, and where everybody can have the opportunity to get their hands on the best ammo at some point or another (via research and modifications) which is where it falls short of historical accuracy for the sake of making sure a vast majority of your shells wont fail randomly

[@LeoMkII]

Dude you have 1960s/1970s spaa taking down ww2 propeller planes, who tf takes "historical accuracy" for real in wt??

[@Sh4quille0atmeal]

bro L1G just kept going up in the air forever

[@ArrabelIa]

My friends used to take American T20 tanks into top tier, and just side shot the hell out of everything.

[@Razzbow]

Warthunder players will say anything is broken except Sabot

[@infectedonstix9908]

Both swedish reserve tanks have sabot shells that mostly one hit. So yeah sabot shells are broken

[@CanuckBacon]

But the sabot performs fairly close to IRL down to the spalling (most sabot rounds melt from the high pressure and then explode when they contact the space inside the tank) what they need to get right is squash head rounds

[@Monarch_E.]

APHE in war thunder seeks modules, it always seeks crewman or modules even if it was behind the shell itself, realistically it should be random or coned and ive heard that historically aphe shells have fuzes too

[@danielspoon1234]

Tetrartch godmodes at high tier be so easy atm

[@neizei]

His is how one change forces another. They cant make realistic APHE because tanks live until last 2 crew members when in real life death of commander would be game over.

[@AkseliKorhonen]

It works like it's supposed to. Armor piercing high explosive

[@SkyeVolt]

This is why they’re changing APHE to explode in a cone and not a sphere since rn it just goes in and the shrapnel loses all momentum

[@justsomebeanz]

APHE in real life showed not significant difference compared to solid shot. APHE blatantly over performs

[@maximbelokon3518]

Wish Gaijin would stop fucking with my APHE rounds and give me proper damage. Or even better, fix the pen mechanic

[@CZMajkee01]

Solid shots are better in my opinion because they generaly have better pen and I am a french main so I kinda stick to them

[@soddy5964]

You forgot to mention, that APHE have lower pen tan solid AP.

[@kyizelma]

some aphe has more pen sometimes, like the m3 75mm gun,

[@elnewbie2611]

APHE performing its task just like it irl. Players : wait too OP, we want realism not unbalanced gameplay. Gaijin : 😐

[@datcheesecakeboi6745]

It doesn't tho, solid shot and aphe act the same, infact solid shot should do more damage then aphe

[@Reichtag]

A yes Shoot 128mm Sturer Emil 550g TNT bugged INSTA KILL

[@etoyamegatron1479]

Снаряд, что вызывается попав внутрь, наносит больше урона, чем сплошняк, охуеть Дисбаланс сука)

[@Patches-vq8cd]

I think aphe is op in warthunder. The simple fact that you can cupola shot and kill a tank is just something that no solid or apds can do. Yes solid shot in general has higher pen. Buuut why shoot 2 or 3 shots to kill a tank when you can just nuke it with aphe. The argument is though, get better and hit ammo! Buuuut aphe you can 1 shot nearly anywhere. So why make a high skill ceiling when you can nuke it with aphe! Then mix that with the russian ammo that can pen on almost any angle dose not help the matter at all. Heck i even got killed in conquerer because got shot by aphe that detinated in the engine bay and it still just knocked out the crew.

[@SeanFicken]

Aphe reducing the skill ceiling so much is why I think it should be made realistic, it causes people who are used to its current performance that they struggle with APDS when they get to them. Of course, apds has the ability to shatter u like other ammo.

[@Patches-vq8cd]

@@SeanFicken ahhh the shell shattered mechanic... has killed me more times id like to admit. But yea i 100% agree with you in your statement.

[@chrisviljoen9245]

Nobody mentions that you wouldn't there with AP shots? It would be a one shot with Conq if you just don't shoot at the worst possible spot

[@Pheramix]

In real life APHE had just a slightly wider spread compared to AP, with the cost some penetration. Besides, a single shot is generally enough to disable a tank or persuade the crew members to gtfo

[@kukurickacz3355]

HEAT 🔥🔥🔥

[@notazombie...notatall8577]

APHE is modeled incorrectly, APHE should explode in a cone of action in front of the shell, not as a grenade causing damage in all directions, but gaijin will *never* fix it, because of Russia!

[@mrduck5679]

I would like if aphe was a little more realistic

[@jimthegentleman2446]

Guys guys. Realistically the APHE doesn't work as well as it was designed But we all know that if it weren't for APHEs, matches would last a century trying to kill enemies

[@rainbowappleslice]

Funny that almost everyone in this comment section didn’t even check what other people have commented so every 3rd comment is the same thing, saying ‘oh did you know that AP performed just as well or even better???’

[@major_kukri2430]

It wouldn't be so bad if they made AP do more spalling.

[@Do_not_ask_me_idk_either]

The first one killed the loader

[@stansearcheslife6363]

Yes

[@ariaakers7818]

Nah. As a Brit main. Just give APHE shell shitter I mean shatter. It will be fun. Sure making APHE realistic via cone is fun, but imagine the rage that people would have when they cannot do shit without perfect shots.

[@Neos453]

First! Nice video bro

[@PvtCat]

Maybe the HE part of APHE stands for "high explosive" and that might be the reason it does more damage than APDS

[@vilgame3645]

Americanium moment

[@MicahGreen-ng4wf]

because of the fuse on the 122 it just goes straight through a lightly amoured anything right?

[@blackginkgo8169]

APHE was the standard ammo on german tanks, while the brits used AP rounds until 1943 for example. Nothing is broken about it 😂

[@noahsawesomevids422]

Do m247 saphei round its way overpowered can 1 shot pretty much everything if it hits the driver hatch or engine vent or very edge of all Russian cupolas

[@Tempest13240]

Thanks ima hunt that tank before i launch is3

[@matheusm7054]

APHE isn't broken AP and APDS that are purposely shit ingame

[@DarkBalladYT]

I vote no on the change apds is already strong enough you take out half of one side of the tank with one shot something needs to be stronger than this to counter nations that have actually good ap rounds otherwise the first shot from ap will always win and no not all german tanks one shot this doesnt just effect the tanks you dont like

[@DarkBalladYT]

Ive played italy and enjoyed it so i should know

[@SeanFicken]

My biggest concern is that solid shot deals damage based on residual penetration, aphe completely ignores this and gets cupola shots to boot. How about we all agree to remove residual penetration based damage while all agreeing that getting hit is a skill issue in the first place.

[@DarkBalladYT]

Nah i like things how they are

[@Shardian1176]

APHE will always be op. Why? Armor Piercing High Explosive Its in the name of why its op. It punches through your armor than blows up launching shrapnel all over the inside of your tank.

[@Helloiexist1]

Don’t give them ideas

[@Helloiexist1]

Edit you gave them ideas

[@No_fritz01]

Bigger 90 mills or 100mms guns suck imo The m36b2 has the best gun imho.

[@DaCouchWarrior]

Kinda not. Its how aphe works overall. Other thing is how bad HEAT shells are. They are unrealistically bad.

[@SoggyToast123]

APHE in game usually has much lower pen though

[@idkiatecorn]

I only use APHEBC because I think APHE suck

[@WaThu_Unidentified]

It depends on how much he filler the bullet has

[@orionsalt8288]

Above 50g is enough.

[@WaThu_Unidentified]

@@orionsalt8288but I think some shells got like 2kg and those are called nuke shells because they absolutely annihilate the crew so it might be overpowers with the right vehicle but some got like 2kg I think and those are just poor

[@orionsalt8288]

@@WaThu_Unidentified if you're talking about large HE shells then yeah. But APHE is usually around 20g to 250g. The highest amount of tnt in a aphe Round has been 890g.

[@cavmenwarthundergroup]

No. It’s not OP. It’s just normal

[@user-dv5qx5kv2o]

UMMM NOOOOOO its called overpressure your in a heavy metal box and a large amount of explosive goes off inside that box when its closed the explosion will rapidly heat the air and cause a extreme pressure zone inside the tank crushing the crew killing them instantly 1.4 bars of pressure is enough to kill a human a explosion does well over 10bars

[@SeanFicken]

So, what amount of explosive does aphe need in real life to do that? I ask because, as far as I know, data on US tanks lost to German guns shows about 1.2 crew members lost per tank loss due to enemy fire. Lets not forget that the Germans were using aphe.

[@theSCARB]

No, just other rounds are underpowered

[@skullduggery7917]

What isnt broken in warthunder

[@janniklaue7767]

Its Not overpowered, its just realistic...like wtf

[@beebbaab3029]

bro wdym the most basic round in this game is APHE

[@mattjohnstone9331]

No

[@user-pf1rl7hy2r]

You didn't answer the question

[@SeanFicken]

That's because I'm asking for peoples opinions and starting a conversation.

[@LiterallyNobody0]

Well I’m pretty sure a “high explosive armor piercing round” is pretty broken in real life to.. because it’s effective 😂

[@ok-gs5ly]

it's actually much less effective than what is depicted in the game as the actual IRl spread is described as a narrow cone rather than an even spread in all directions which ment that it's not that much more effective tham solid shot in damaging a tank.

[@LiterallyNobody0]

@@ok-gs5ly you must be the guy doing the document leaks I keep hearing about 👀😂 jk jk

[@LeoMkII]

Meh, Idgaf, it's a fricking game, if they nerfed aphe my chi tos and the ho ri production would suffer, I'd rather it stayed as is

[@nexusinc.4367]

It is one of the best rounds ever created, it SHOULD be overpowered. The thing basically fires a railgun sabot on impact then explodes again

[@icy3-1]

That's a bit of an oversimplification there

[@fishywishyfishfisk]

That's just plain wrong lol, real APHE sends shrapnel in a cone shape much like the spall pattern of solid shot. Negligible upsides with the downsides of it being harder to produce and potentially having less penetration than solid shot.

[@nexusinc.4367]

@@fishywishyfishfisk the AP part is a core of tungsten and the cone charge shoves it forward. Usually it is so hot from the cone wave that penetration causes it to shatter

[@SeanFicken]

The shell body consists of special treated steel to resist shattering on impact, that same steel body is what does the penetration, after penetration the bursting charge detonates accelerating the shell fragments outward, but the velocity of the rounds is typically above the speed of sound so the shell fragments spread out in a cone as the momentum is carried forward. I'm not certain where you got that APHE has tungsten from.

[@icy3-1]

@@SeanFicken Must be one hell of a source that claims APHE has tungsten