Is Bernie Sanders A Democratic Socialist? Or Just a Socialist?

What would Sanders' vision of Democratic socialism mean for the country?
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Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) has rocketed to the top of the Democratic presidential primary field by proposing a massive expansion of government: single-payer health care, free public college tuition, student loan forgiveness, universal pre-K, and more.
His plans could cost as much as $60 trillion dollars over the next decade, more than doubling the federal budget.
More than any single policy, however, Sanders has run on an idea: Democratic socialism, with the economies of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden as models.
At times in his life, however, he's also had kind words for socialist revolutionaries and regimes that are more authoritarian-although he has also condemned their harshest practices.
So what is Sanders' vision of Democratic socialism? And what would it mean for the country? To find out, Reason Features Editor Peter Suderman spoke with Jim Pethokoukis.
Interview by Peter Suderman. Edited by Ian Keyser. Intro by Paul Detrick. Cameras by Austin and Meredith Bragg.
Photo credits:
Photo of Sen. Bernie Sanders rally; Credit: Bob Daemmrich/Polaris/Newscom
Photos of Sen. Bernie Sanders at podium; Credit: Michael Mullenix/ZUMA Press/Newscom
Photo of Sen. Bernie Sanders with hands in air; pointing; Credit: Aaron Jackendoff/ZUMA Press/Newscom
Photo of Sen. Bernie Sanders giving speech; Credit: Nancy Kaszerman/ZUMA Press/Newscom
Photo of Sen. Bernie Sanders at speech; Credit: Michael Vadon via CC license Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 Generic
Dollars; ID 19971251 © Nicku | Dreamstime.com
TV; ID 36230840 © trekandshoot | Dreamstime.com
Photo of Sen. Bernie Sanders sign; Credit: TERRY SCHMITT/UPI/Newscom
Wellcome Library, London. Wellcome Images [e-mail] wellcomeimages.org Frame of picture L0051763/4 - A philosopher with a celestial globe. 162u Published: [ca. 162-?]
Creative Commons Attribution only licence CC BY 4.0 (edited)

[@emilgaustad6491]

In case you don’t already know, I, a Norweagian, have something to tell you: Scandinavia is not socialist. Scandinavia is not «democratic socialist». Scandinavian countries are capitalist, with big welfare. And finally, Scandinavia is not a utopia, and our system would not necessarily work i the US.

[@robjossick7380]

Its a shame the people who believe in Bernie Panders have their heads way far up their ass to listen to you. Bernie is only good in pointing out issues and in my opinion gives no actual solutions that the majority of American's actually want.

[@a_lucientes]

@@robjossick7380 People like to get what they pay for. Right now that is not happening. If the minimum wage kept up with inflation it would be over $20. today. Capitalism is always a race to the bottom in an effort to squeeze out maximum profits. We see this clearly in our healthcare system which is the most expensive on the planet, yet come in 27th in quality of care. Over 20% of children are born below the poverty line. The Middle and Working classes have been decimated, (worker wages frozen since 1980 (go on Google image and look up some data graphs on wealth disparity and distribution) while production and profits for the wealthiest Americans has soared. Today, a handful of people control the same wealth as 3.5 billion. We can have plutocracy or democracy. We cannot have both.

[@robjossick7380]

@@a_lucientes My opinion still stands. I believe there is better solutions than what Bernie proposes, that said I don't claim to have the answers I don't think he's the guy to do it. I don't have much faith in any of the politicians to be honest... I guess we'll see what happens.

[@akzebraminer5679]

You guys have a much better system, but I agree with everything you are saying.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

@@a_lucientes Inflation is caused by the state. The real minimum wage is always the same no matter what arbitrary dollar number you give it.

[@airman122469]

Technically the USSR was a “democratic” state. Sure. It was a one party system and the options were “super fascist communist” and “totalitarian communist,” but there was a “democratic” process. Does that count as “democratic socialism?”

[@bluesmax1336]

Exactly right! Democratic Socialism from the beginning, then marching on to the socialism of China, North Korea, Cuba, Nicaragua, Cambodia, Venezuela, etc., etc., etc.

[@imonlyamanandiwilldiesomed4406]

"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on who to eat for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote" - B. Franklin (allegedly)

[@thenewmayorofcrazytown7392]

I'm Only A Man And I Will Die Some Day “That’s a Right Wing conspiracy theory” - the Wolf (allegedly)

[@Barskor1]

Rationality is the well armed sheep never letting the wolves even think or know voting exists.

[@davidlewis6728]

@@Barskor1 lol what? the wolves would be the ones enforcing the votes in the first place. that is beyond irrationality, that is just plain retarded.

[@Barskor1]

@HKZ P That is a nice saying I don't need a nation/government in order to plant trees/plan for the future I did that last year and plan to do some more this year lots of walnuts and cherries with some bamboo near the creek. If governments where capable of what that saying implies fiat currency would never have been a thing, The phrase unintended consequences would be limited to teenage pregnancy etcetera.

[@rikker5251]

If liberty is a well armed sheep, socialism is a suicidal sheep

[@commonclayofthenewwest6045]

"Nicaragua has free healthcare.. it's terrible, but it's free" - ol Bernie

[@a_lucientes]

We have the most expensive healthcare system (by far) of any nation on the planet, yet it ranks 27th in quality of care. We can do better with our eyes closed, but we need to get rid of the parasites that are sucking the blood, sweat and tears of this nation's workers and not giving us what we are already paying for. That goes without say.

[@jacobelledge8424]

alucientes yeah get government out of healthcare. Stop the regulation let hmos be sold across the state lines.

[@1flash3571]

@@a_lucientes Gov't is the problem. Just like everything else, gov't RUINS social programs. They are corrupt. FACTS.

[@tigerlily1118]

@@1flash3571 Because Privatization is so much better, right?

[@1flash3571]

@@tigerlily1118 You have no clue. Why do you think the LASIK surgery has gotten cheaper when no insurance wanted to pay for it? It was all private. No gov't involved. Now some of the insurance want to cover that. Almost everything our gov't touches is ruined. How is Veteran Hospitals doing? How is Health Care program doing? How is housing programs for the poor doing? Do I need to go on????? I know what you want. You want others to pay for YOUR HEALTHCARE. THAT IS WHY YOU WANT IT FREE. Well, I have to break it to you. NOTHING IS FREE IN THIS WORLD when money is involved. Someone have to pay for it.

[@jevers2010]

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship." - Alexander Fraser Tytler

[@ryanmuro]

The prime minister of Denmark him self said “we are a free market society”

[@NwoDispatcher]

Yea. free for international bankers and circumcision enthusiasts

[@leopoldstotch7076]

Exactly! The Nordics do not have a national minimum wage and our corporate tax rates are around 20%. Yes, we have a lot of public expenditure, but that is bases on high taxation (vat around 25%, middle class taxed at around 50% on income). You need a lot of trust for the system to work: the last Finnish PM was forced to resign because he lied about when he heard about the plans of a company to lower wages - by two days.

[@thejfoshow1320]

Bernie isn’t getting rid of the free market.

[@stratecaster547]

the prime minister himself clearly misunderstood what Bernie's platform actually was. In his country "democratic socialist" means a very different thing than it does in America.

[@thejfoshow1320]

And ‘very low corporate tax rates’ yes, but they actually pay it! Most large corps in reality only pay 3% or so.

[@arnoldgarryug]

"He is really focusing on a Scandinavia that doesn't exist." 😂

[@aussie2uGA]

Here is the background of this author. It may help frame his take on Bernie: tikvahfund.org/faculty/james-pethokoukis/

[@thebronxguy916]

DON'T VOTE DEMOCRAT DON'T VOTE DEMOCRAT DON'T VOTE DEMOCRAT DON'T VOTE DEMOCRAT DON'T VOTE DEMOCRAT! DON'T VOTE DEMOCRAT! POVERTY PIMPS CONTROL OVER US INNER-CITIES

[@antlerman7644]

@@aussie2uGA figures. Cheers for the clear up bro

[@flymilo904]

@victorisaiden exactly

[@jameskidd7499]

@@thebronxguy916 Don't vote for Democrat or Republican , They are both are corrupt and taking us into a Police State

[@haydenvincent8821]

Communism is Classic Coke Socialism is Diet Coke Democratic Socialism is Coke Zero No matter which one is advertised as "better" for you, it's all bad in reality

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

Libertarians for RC.

[@GHotSauceAnd1]

Hayden Vincent chill bro. Fucking love classic coke. If you’re in the middle of the desert, on your last crawl, dehydrated, parched, essentially wasting away, and someone gave you a classic coke, your body would thank you like it’s never thanked you in your entire life. Fucking love classic coke.

[@maccon1]

And what cola represents public roads and firefighters to name a few?

[@haydenvincent8821]

@Mondprogramm if you're referring to Nordic countries like Denmark and Sweden then you're mistaken. They're market economies which is very pro-capitalism and pro-private industry. Corporations have lower tax rates than the US while the average citizen pays close to 50% income tax. Also the government's invest in said businesses. There is a video on here with the Danish prime minister explaining how they are not a socialist country

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

@duh slavenski The average European subsidized college education is equivalent to a U.S. community college associate's degree. We used to call it high school with ash trays before they took away them away. Anyway, European universities for anything like engineering are selective and elitest as fuck. Only idiots get $100k of debt in the U.S.

[@dougd1573]

"I'm not a fascist, I'm a democratic fascist" - Benito Mussolini

[@aquato33]

“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power” ― Benito Mussolini

[@skepticcat2443]

Mussolini did NOT get into power via popular demand, he shamelessly had his Blackshirts right-wing militia kill every single opposition he's had until people simply opted out of the political process out of fear.

[@andrejlukic7538]

Fascism rose from the very despise for democracy.

[@SteveSmith-fh6br]

Remember, you can't spell Nazi without "socialist".

[@andrejlukic7538]

@@SteveSmith-fh6br you also cant spell Nazi without Nation, so you also hate the Nation State, the USA?

[@drterminator]

To quote Danish prime minister Lars Rasmussen, “Denmark is a market economy” and “Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy”.

[@adamtrott78]

It is market socialist. The bottom left quadrants, aka, just right of democratic socialism. They also have super strong unions and a large social safety net. Bernie doesn’t want a planned economy, you can’t build democratic socialism overnight, specifically because it is not centrally planned. It’s strengthening unions and encouraging. Worker Coops.

[@letters_from_paradise]

I remember when Sanders used to have a "visceral distaste" for millionaires as well, but I wonder why that dropped out of his discourse...

[@highlyconfused6493]

I'm not sure. Let me go to one of his 3 mansions and ask him

[@michaelc.3812]

Oliver Watts - Bernie now has three homes and is himself a millionaire... so the bar has moved for he and his wife, but will the Bernie Bros notice?

[@gothicpando]

So strange he stopped saying it as soon as HE became a millionaire... Hmm...

[@maccon1]

REASON is owned by Koch Brothers.. for real journalists exposing the corruption in our government I’d ask you to check out the following KZbin contributors.... Kim Iverson, Jimmy Dore, Ron Pauls liberty report, Ben Swann, Humanist, Secular talk, Ron Placone, RT, Rational National, The Real News Network , We are Change, Redacted, Graham Elwood, Status Coup, MCSC, Damage Report, Primo Nutmeg, Majority Report, Michael Brooks, Richard Wolff, Noam Chomsky, Rebel HQ.

[@jewiesnew3786]

He no longer believes in it

[@charlesferdinand422]

It's frankly hilarious to see Comrade Bernie Sanders talking about 'working people' when he has never held a paid job outside of politics in his life, he has always lived off the taxpayers' money and during his decades as congressman he has never proposed a single significant piece of legislation and managed to get it approved; however, during his decades as a bureaucrat he did manage to become a millionaire and I love how he always used to criticize "millionaires" but after he became a millionaire himself he started to criticize "billionaires" from then on. In other words, he's a useless, hypocritical and shameless communist leech, like all communists.

[@debrac3391]

Lying is immoral. Or, perhaps you've never had a chance to open a book. What a shame.

[@charlesferdinand422]

@@debrac3391 Being a Leftie Liberal and/or a Socialist is also immoral.

[@bluesmax1336]

@@debrac3391 I think Charles Ferdinand meant that Sanders NEVER had a job "outside" of government, so where is the lie?

[@DCBChump]

@@debrac3391 There was no lie. Sanders is useless.

[@keimmary101]

I just moved to Sweden from Ohio. I'm a teacher and I pay about 30 percent in taxes. After taxes, I still make more money than I did in the US. I'm happy to pay the tax because if I have a child I can take off of work for 16 months, paid. I have free healthcare. I haven't used it but it has an overall good reputation here. Daycare is super affordable. I have paid retirement as well. My students and I have free, healthy, restaurant style meals every day. The big difference is that corporations actually pay taxes, there are little to no loopholes. In the US, massive corporations don't pay taxes. Also, most of the taxes go to the military. In Sweden, taxes go mostly back to the people. College tuition is free. You only have to borrow money for your cost of living. The data you showed that students have about 24,000 average debt. This is much lower than in the US. Also, you can avoid this debt. I'm thinking about going back to school once I'm a citizen. My partner's job could provide for my cost of living so I wouldn't have to borrow money. Most Swedes choose to take on the debt because they are very independent and don't want to live with their parents through college. Bernie may call himself a democratic socialists but most of his policies are very similar to Sweden.

[@hamishcounsell5579]

The society that puts equality before freedom will end up with neither. The society that puts freedom before equality will end up with a great measure of both Milton Friedman

[@NiaLin]

Scandinavian countries also have as close to closed borders as you can get. Immigration policy is very strict & social programs aren’t extended to non citizens or illegals, if any sneak in. Norway is tightening up immigration even more now that they’re having budgetary/funding issues that have forced stark cuts to social benefits. They’re very us first, very nationalist, which is the opposite of Sanders. These countries understand that their social programs can’t be sustainable if they open their borders & give them away to non citizens who’d burden the system w/out a guarantee they’d be able to pay back into it. You can’t possibly know the total budget w/open borders unless you’re psychic & know exactly how many new immigrants will burden the system every year. It’s completely unsustainable...

[@andrejlukic7538]

Scandinavian countries are part of the freedom of movement agreements of the European Union, meaning any worker from the EU and Switzerland can easily move there and apply for a job. This means they are as far from closed borders as it gets. Some have tightened their stance on Non-EU (!) migrants but only after being among the most affected by the US-caused refugee crisis in 2015. Still, they have practically open borders towards 450 Million EU citizens. Please do some research before you post.

[@utistudent099]

John Stossel did a piece on Norway several years ago and demonstrated how they are an absolute path of less resistance to freebies and give always to the point of just being a laughing stock

[@utistudent099]

PENGDO correct and the tide is turning in Sweden for sure. They are rising up against this insanity and free giveaway your farm mentality. The left is starting to feel some pain finally

[@NiaLin]

Here’s some of the articles I got my info for immigration policy changes in Nordic countries from. It’s not everything I’ve been reading of course: Norway: www.reuters.com/article/us-denmark-election-welfare-insight/danes-make-welfare-a-hot-election-issue-as-cracks-show-in-nordic-model-idUSKCN1SZ0I Denmark: www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/01/denmark-refugees-immigration-law/431520/ Sweden: www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2017-07-10/immigration-forces-sweden-to-re-evaluate-its-welfare-state From what I’ve read, in all of these countries you don’t automatically receive all their social benefits either. You must be able to prove that you’re gonna work & help fund the system & live there for awhile. Even EU citizens who are able to come in easily don’t get benefits as soon as they’re on Swedish soil. The open door policies of the past are unsustainable for these programs & this is what the Nordic model has discovered over the last 5 years & they are passing immigration laws that are the strictest in recent history. Norway has been working to pass even more strict immigration policy related to their healthcare as recently as 2019. These countries also aren’t handing out automatic coverage like they used to. Despite the lessons they have & are still learning, the changes in immigration policy & changes to immigrant coverage that are more sustainable, Bernie wants a system more like the Sweden of the 1970s. Come one, come all & here’s everything you need. It’s not realistic for them anymore & it’s never been realistic for us.

[@ossianpages7206]

Nia Lin introducing the reigning gold medalists in dog whistling: the alt right/light

[@worsethanjoerogan8061]

So basically the Nordic countries actually do have the dreaded Flat Tax(TM)? And it works? I could support that

[@gorequillnachovidal]

Our tax rate works better.

[@_Kiren_]

Not really the case. I'm far from an expert, but simply looking at their respective Wikipedia page for taxation all have some kind of progressive income tax. However, as discussed in the video, wealth tax is used to a much lesser extent in favor of others e.g. VAT, capital gains, or corporate tax.

[@_Kiren_]

@allen fraser In what way? Since 2015 the government debt of Sweden has been decreasing both in absolute numbers and in terms of GDP. By about an average of 4% / yr. Since 2016 there has been a budget surplus to help with this. In some sense the Swedish economy isn't doing well. But claiming that they're running out of money is rather misleading... Or were you thinking of another metric?

[@_Kiren_]

@allen fraser Sorry, should have had references to begin with. 😊 About the debt: Riksgälden, the Swedish national debt office, who issues the Swedish government bonds. (they actually have a pretty nice website) www.riksgalden.se/QvAJAXZfc/opendoc.htm?document=Webb_Upplaning.qvw&bookmark=Document\BM08 About the budget: esv, The Swedish National Financial Management Authority. It's unfortunately not as accessible, but you can find the reference to each year here: www.esv.se/sok/Search/?q=utfallet+f%C3%B6r+statens+budget&c=46&contentType=Sidor&dateFilter=Inget&searchType=Alla&sortOrder=Relevans There also seems to be a site that has a neet graph of the compiled data: www.ekonomifakta.se/Fakta/Offentlig-ekonomi/Statsbudget/Statsbudgetens-saldo/

[@toasterbathboi6298]

"I'm a *democratic* socialist" "Why? Is there something wrong with regular socialism?" *angry unemployed noises*

[@Barskor1]

@Joseph Willis Politics is nuanced yes does the thief use a knife or a gun by proxy?

[@skepticcat2443]

There is nothing wrong with regular socialism either

[@toasterbathboi6298]

@@skepticcat2443 cuba, Venezuela, nazi germany, the soviet union, and vietnam would like to have a work with you

[@skepticcat2443]

​@@toasterbathboi6298 none of those are bad countries to live in, except for Venezuela because it was too dependent on oil and had incompetent leaders.

[@toasterbathboi6298]

@@skepticcat2443 "none of those are bad countries to live in" Cuba "None of those are bad countries" The soviet union " *none of those are bad countries to live in* " NAZI FUCKING GERMANY

[@user-st2zc6pk7t]

I can't believe I got a "Join Bernie" ad at the beginning of this video. Can't make this stuff up.

[@phant0mknlght869]

I mean yeah you can.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

@@austinmyhre9635 That is low tech as fuck. I find KZbin's ad services to be laughable. They can't figure out how to effectively match advertisers, relevant content, and users. Most of the ads they manage to get I wouldn't consider blue chips. They get Grammarly and shit like that.

[@coolbeans6148]

Centralized power is the primary source of humanity's grief.

[@ricksmith8447]

A Bernie campaign ad played before this video...

[@dougd1573]

@Steven S Sanders/Stalin 2020.... no thanks.

[@JohnSmith-kb9dc]

Hypocrisy

[@ricardocantoral7672]

A Michael Bloomberg ad played before I watched a John Stossel video bashing the former !

[@ricksmith8447]

It's all about the algorithm

[@vermontredpill]

I got one too. Asking me for money. Hilarious since I'm against his entire campaign & literally made a video denouncing Socialism.

[@Hamsteak]

I'm Canadian and we have Medicare for all and subsidized education. We have higher taxes because of it.

[@BostonSQ]

Justin H but you do have insurance and all that’s stuff, right? Cuz Bernie “Medicare for all” means eliminating every single insurance company, which will lead to thousands of people loosing their jobs

[@Hamsteak]

@@BostonSQ yes I do. I have insurance from my wife's work and I have full insurance from Veterans Affairs. I believe the States should still keep some type of medical insurance like Canada does. For eye doctors/glasses, Dental, Pharmacy, Therapies like Chiropractor, Massage Therapy and Physiotherapy

[@BostonSQ]

@@Hamsteak yes, that would make sense, but Bernie is a complete loonatic "Insurance companies are bad and greedy" and all this stuff

[@Hamsteak]

@@BostonSQ I agree, you cant have the government pay for everything it's just soo costly. Theres been talk for awhile with the left of center parties about free pharmacare, free tuition and free day and long term care. But each are really costly in there own right. The big ones people from all sides back is Long term housing, but not free. It would be subsidized and would increase the amount of beds available. We still need increases in funding to bring down wait times and the over capacity problem. I do support our health with some minor tweaks. Bernie will bankrupt you guys having Full Medicare for all plus all the other stuff. Like; free tuition, student debt wipeout, and trying to stuff free trade

[@arthasmenethil2201]

I've heard that you need to wait several months for a surgery in Canada. Is it true?

[@brackcarmony6385]

If you want to talk about productive reform of the capitalist system, you need to taking money out of the hands of government.

[@rayr5950]

Exactly, I'm against communism and pro-capitalism, so that's why I'm against the income tax. The Income Tax is the Root of All Evil. fee.org/resources/the-income-tax-root-of-all-evil/

[@rayr5950]

@George ONeal But that would mean there would barely be a soul left in D.C., which ain't a bad idea.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

@George ONeal All politics is a special interest.

[@markmyjak7739]

Democratic Socialism was first mention in "All In the Family". Lionel Jefferson asked Meathead how him and his Democratic Socialistwere doing. Meathead became a teacher while Lionel became and engineer.

[@Barskor1]

Teacher? of propaganda perhaps.

[@AztlanViva]

@HKZ P 20 kids? How about 30+ with abilities that range from college ready to early elementary. That doesn't even take into account the varying behaviors of such a crew.

[@JK-gu3tl]

@HKZ P That happens when the gov't tells teachers they have to put up with bad azzes in their classroom.

[@verntoews5954]

Mark Lionel a lectrical engineer

[@maccon1]

I don’t see your point. Both have jobs? Most People are expected to have jobs in any society. If this is a slight on Bernie you completely misunderstand democracy. He’s not taking away your job.

[@jaycarr590]

It all leads to the same place every time

[@DonSaxton]

Growth and liberty, not Bernie

[@NwoDispatcher]

These people are fooling you. Capitalism is socialism for bankers

[@Barskor1]

@@NwoDispatcher Government is socialism for bankers.

[@tianyiliu856]

@@Barskor1 A government works for capitalists of course is socialism for bankers. You are assuming that government only works for capitalists.

[@Barskor1]

@HKZ P Every effective extortion racket needs to balance how much production of wealth to how much misery and control over your victims you can exercise. Fixed it for you.

[@PAXperMortem]

People who thinks EU countries are "socialist" shouldn't be allowed to vote tbh

[@kleezer1]

Right? Social market economy =/= Socialist

[@ramaya007]

Sean so be ignorant

[@Stewsdrums]

They can call it Socialist Communist capitalist doesn't matter Europe is controlled by the rich and people are so brainwashed they can't see it

[@malikjackson9337]

@Sean Ryan It's joke don't be pathetic.

[@PAXperMortem]

@Sean Ryan It's more the idea of not letting idiots decide about the future of the country. Should be a bipartisan effort, really.

[@Phantom8589]

I've been to Scandinavian countries never met anyone there who claimed to be Socialist....if anything they said they would prefer less welfare and a more Capitalist medical system.

[@Phantom8589]

@cesar mendoza Yes I do want that! Capitalist medical care means I am only paying for myself so it's way cheaper! Before Obamacare wrecked health-care people could get affordable health care. Now Socialist healthcare is making it impossible for people to afford it or for companies to offer it to employees. You want good health stop depending on other people. Make a it a single payer system and this will force insurance companys to have to lower there costs. It will competitive like car insurance. There a reason why people who drive safe and don't have crashes have low car insurance costs. Medical can be the same. I have worked as a medical professional for years and the more the government gets involved the less affordable it will be! Get the government out of health care.

[@Phantom8589]

@cesar mendoza No you are wrong we do want it!

[@georgeford6056]

There is no difference between a "Democratic socialist" and a "socialist" when it comes to government policy. All adding "Democratic" to "socialist" means is that they believe in being elected to office. The better question would have been "is Bernie Sanders a socialist or a communist."

[@ScorpionXII]

Can you name one socialist policy Bernie Sanders is advocating for?

[@georgeford6056]

@@ScorpionXII Do you mean something like the universal healthcare ("Medicare for all") or universal free college? You aren't trying to argue that Bernie, who describes himself as a "democratic socialist", isn't one, are you?

[@ScorpionXII]

@@georgeford6056 Time for some education. 1. Universal health care is not socialism, it's just a public service. Every country in the world has public services such as fire departments and health care; that doesn't make them socialist. It's also important to know that the term "medicare for all" isn't Bernie's idea, medicare was implemented by Lyndon Johnson in 1965, the only thing Bernie wants to do is remove the age requirement. 2. Public education isn't socialism either. The USA already has a public education system, but it only includes Grade 1 to 12. There are few countries (Like Finland, France, and Norway) who have include as apart of their public education. Once again... none of these are Bernie's ideas, these re ideas which other countries have come up with decades ago; in fact... Bernie himself doesn't actually have any new ideas. 3. Bernie may call himself a democratic socialist, but like most Americans, Bernie doesn't know what socialism is. What Bernie is advocating for is social democracy, which is a capitalist economy with a robust array of public services. 4. Hey... you want to know what socialism actually is? It's not fire departments and public schools, it's when workers in an economy collectively own the goods and services they produce. In a socialist economy, Bill Gates doesn't own Microsoft, Bill Gates is a Microsoft worker. Bernie Sanders has never advocated for this.

[@dostthouevenlogicbrethren1739]

Sure there is. The election results. If the votes support them, they are "democratic" socialists. If the election results don't support them....

[@dostthouevenlogicbrethren1739]

@@ScorpionXII Bernie Sanders doesn't even know what socialism is. He only advocates for profoundly ignorant nonsense and failed ideas that are based on a gross ignorance of the world he lives in.

[@marklewis9594]

Socialist my tucas, he's a communist.

[@user-tk2lf1dv3s]

well communism is the endgoal in marxicst socialism but thats not what sanders is for it

[@marklewis9594]

@@user-tk2lf1dv3s it certainly is

[@marklewis9594]

@@user-tk2lf1dv3s he most certainly is

[@Bill_Woo]

Charity must be *voluntary,* or there is chaos. When government is given the ability to choose who receives charity and who does not, chaos. Utter chaos.

[@steveng6704]

What are you basing this off?

[@ragingpacifist2074]

Ugh.. I don't know why I wasted my time with this, but here it goes point by point 1. Even the most unfavorable estimates to Sanders Medicare for all plan say it costs 40 trillion over 10 years. Not 60. Also, if you account for growth, it makes up about 75% of the budget over that period. And that is not accounting for the fact that Medicare For All is a government stimulus that would energize the economy. But that would take too long to explain in a youtube comment that no one will read anyway. 2. The effective corporate tax rate in america is lower than most countries in the EU and that is especially true for the Scandinavian countries. In the US, small businesses are squeezed out, with a tax rate over 20%. but the fortune 500 companies pay an average of 11.2% tax. I wish Trump would have fulfilled his campaign promise to get rid of tax loopholes, but here we are. 3. There is no such thing as "free trade". All trade deals come with terms and conditions. Bernie has a similar trade strategy as Trump ironically. The only difference is that Trump likes to initiate tariffs. 4. The Scandinavian countries are more socialist now than ever. They have stronger unions, more welfare, and higher taxes than the US. (note that welfare and higher taxes has nothing to do with socialism, I am just using the language ReasonTV used) 5. Saying a Social Democratic country has more billionaires per capita is an argument for socialism, not against. 6. The VAT taxes DO in fact target luxury goods more than common goods. They organize the VATs in the EU to specifically target the wealthy. 7. Bernie Sanders wants tax rates to be similar to post WWII era(1940s and 50s). His tax rates are in line with that. 8. The context of Bernie "praising" Cuba was to point out that the American education system sucks so bad that even commies can do better. When asked about it later, he doubled down. I think this was a dumb move because of the optics, but again, here we are. 9. SOCIALISM IS NOT WHEN THE GOVERNMENT DOES THINGS. Democratic socialism in particular puts an emphasis on democratic workers unions and smaller centralized government so that more local and targeted policies can be implemented. IN OTHER WORDS MOST MODERN SOCIALISTS ARE LIBERTARIANS WHO LIKE FREE MARKETS AND A STRONG CAPITALIST CLASS. (like me) 10. I have no idea where this guy got the idea that real wages are at an all time high right now... Cost of living and inflation has kept up with any increase in wage growth since the 1970s. That doesn't include the various types of insurance(car, home/house/renters, life, health). When people get poorer, they rely on safety nets more and more. Insurance is one such safety net. 75% of all Americans live paycheck to paycheck. They cannot afford a $500 emergency. To them health insurance will not only make them poorer but also make them more dependent on the security of having it. The more people lean on their insurance, the more expensive the insurance gets. This dependence is why more than half the country supports single payer health care. Don't know why I bother. but there you go.

[@Ambersdf]

Nah man, thanks for sharing.... Its amazing how twisted things can get when you have an agenda lol

[@tylerkropp4380]

Bringing up Scandinavia is important, because Bernie claims that he wants the US to be more like those countries. The person being interviewed points out that the policies Bernie is for are not the policies that are practiced in Scandinavia. Could you explain why having more billionaires in an argument for socialism? I have never heard that modern socialism is libertarianism. However, it hardly matters what label we use, what's important is the policies. Many points you listed aren't even mentioned in the video, so I'm not really how they're relevant.

[@exerciserelax8719]

A few points: -The 60 trillion was an estimate for all of Bernie's proposals, not just M4A. Not sure how you missed that. -The point about billionaires wasn't to argue for our against Scandinavian economies (although the guest seemed to have some positive things to say about them). The point was that Bernie has been very clear that he doesn't think there should be as many (if any) billionaires, so him pointing to Scandinavia as a model is either ignorant or disingenuous. -We didn't have a wealth tax in the 40s-50s (and Europe doesn't have them now--they were tried and failed). -Taxes in most of Europe are less progressive than they are in the US. This is what's required for a large welfare state. The tradeoff is that lower/middle class people get more back, in terms of benefits, than they do under the US system, so they come out ahead. But no American politician is willing to run on a platform of regressive tax increases (here's where I plug Andrew Yang, whose plans came closest to such a system).

[@206guy5]

Dude, Bernies an idiot get use to it

[@ProfessorHooligan]

He’s certainly a statist, at any rate.

[@hockeymaskbob2942]

All public officials failed in the private sector, that's why they need your vote so they can force you to pay them.

[@jameskulevich8907]

Millionaire B. Sanders says: Billionaires are bad...

[@loturzelrestaurant]

Wow, dude, 'Socialism never works'? We're digging-up the anncncciciienntt propaganda and debunked-myths here huh?

[@tommy-ch5ct]

“How do you tell a Communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin.” ― Ronald Reagan

[@Bill_Woo]

Life is not "Heads I win, tails you lose." If you took out a loan, expecting to profit from it, but it didn't work out, you're still responsible for your obligations. Voting yourself money in this regard, placing the cost on everyone ELSE, is sinful. Would you teach your child that value system?

[@PockASqueeno]

So how exactly does Scandinavia pay for their government health care? He mentioned a sales tax; is this a flat sales tax on all products? I just find it hard to believe that a simple sales tax could pay for every single citizen to get “free” health care.

[@justinjex1]

The Nordic model failed. Stalin himself referred to Russian and Soviet communism as democratic socialism.

[@Stewsdrums]

And of course it's the farthest thing from that

[@Vintagecoilylocks]

We have attention spans longer than 15 minutes. I wish you had done this with more specific details in an informative piece rather than a hit piece. An interview that really exposes the fallacies of his plans. We are on board. The best thing is when we can present this to others to open their eyes and they do not feel attacked. Thanks for the video though.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

You need short and to the point to deal with "progressives". Their ideas sound good to other idiots in a few words, while complex ideas and higher order consequences take more time to explain.

[@antoniojamison2578]

Sweden doesn't have a NFA. America shouldn't have a NFA either.

[@nima7205]

Antonio Jamison nor does it have a minimum wage

[@antoniojamison2578]

@Sean Ryan Why don't you move to sweden. Better yet why don't you move to russia or venezuela or cuba. You won't because you have no balls to see what your ideals in reality.

[@BUZZTROLLInc]

... wtf is Sweden? ... lol .... a failing state that is destroying itself and its traditions through mass immigration. They are idiots and aren't a role model for anything.

[@shaamsolanki2881]

@@antoniojamison2578 USA has waged war and destruction to many who have opposed it's indiscriminate gluttonous hording of resources. The best thing for any lefty to do is to stay in america and fight its politics. The branding of socialist authoritarians as dictators while being buddy-buddy with other capitalist authoritarian countries is just one reason why changing americas politics is more important than moving a country with more socialist beliefs.

[@antoniojamison2578]

@@shaamsolanki2881 just like any other powerful country. Get over yourself. We would have the advancement in anything without the U.S. Because we have more freedom than any country. Oh look I gave my opinion. I don't have anyone kicking my door down to put me in jail or shot.

[@vshah1010]

The music that they play at the beginning of this video is called. "The Washington Post" by John Philip Sousa.

[@erick-gmz]

Is the closing song available?

[@DeathskullLord]

they always bring up nordic countries they are free market!

[@jaydunbar7538]

More free market then the US in fact.

[@sydIRISH]

Yet they hate white people....hmmm.

[@Remorpho]

Sectoral Bargaining isn't free market.

[@assfukwut]

Jay Dunbar so then why can’t America adopt their social services? America is 27th in social mobility while Finland is #1 and all the Nordic countries are in the top 5. All cause of their free public services 27th is pretty fucking bad considering there’s only 30 or so developed countries lmao

[@a_lucientes]

Because that same kind of social democracy would be progress. Right now, we pay for many social services we are not receiving bc instead we have to prop-up a predatory war machine,, that is sucking this nation dry. It now consumes 60% of all federal discretionary spending!! In 1989 military experts were talking about cutting the military budget by 50% over the next ten years, so they had to manufacture a new enemy, not that Communism could no longer be used as the boogeyman. 60% of all federal spending is as indefensible as the war machine itself,, which is nothing but a massive cash cow for the 1%. They reap huge rewards while the average American, the victims in target nations and our nation's military members pay the price in blood, sweat and tears.

[@sdozer1990]

People don't understand how serious we would have to be about fiscal policy if we had more generous welfare programs like the Scandinavian countries have. We couldn't eliminate billionaires. We would NEED billionaires. Bernie doesn't seem to understand the basic fundamental FACT that government doesn't create anything. In order to be generous, it has to take from Peter to pay Paul. Well, Peter has to be productive!!!!!!!

[@matthew-jy5jp]

I think it's funny that you who makes comments on KZbin thank you no more than Bernie Sanders who's been doing this for his whole life. Maybe all these senators and economics experts should call you when you're not making comments on KZbin and ask what your opinion is. Or you could shut the fuck up

[@JamesThomas-pj2lx]

pip.

[@katiek.8808]

@matthew fitzgerald your joking right. You are referring to career politicians that have ruined our country. Do you know anything about our country history and how people used to live? No I don’t think you do.

[@Nobody-Nowhere]

@@katiek.8808 Yes, they used to work for tokens and shop in the factory owned shops that were only place you could spend those tokens. Child labour was normal, people used to wear diapers in factories as no bathroom breaks, and before that slavery.

[@katiek.8808]

nobody nowhere nope like I thought no clue what’s so ever.

[@AJ-HawksToxicFinger]

Great content, as always. Bernie also had issues with Millionaires and wanted them all rounded up and 'stopped'...until he became one...

[@ScorpionXII]

This is false. Bernie has been advocating for a top marginal tax rate of 52% long before he released his book. Bernie Sanders himself would also be paying under taxes under his own tax plan.

[@adamtrott78]

ScorpionXII People are so braindead. He would be financially hiring himself. Also it makes sense he’s not advocating for getting rid of millionaires, he’s running a fucking presidential campaign. That’s not exactly the best PR for most Americans.

[@OneLine122]

Its a good critique. There is more to it on the authoritarian side. He said he would act through decrees and not through Congress, and really it is the only way he could pass some of those things. His plans over the environment need a command economy, for instance, banning fracking. Of course his solution for health care is nationalization of it, and it is probably the same for education. He has a plan for full employment, which usually means low paying jobs for the poor, and making it harder for worker turnover and depending on the type of work, can create unfair competition to the private sector. Its definitively closer to communist totalitarian countries than to the Scandinavian models. Some of the programs might look the same, but it is done completely differently.

[@WorldsOkayestSorcerer]

A more appropriate question is: How did Bernie Sanders and his policies become so popular? Honest investigation will likely lead to answers you don’t like.

[@Barskor1]

“The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else.” ― Frederic Bastiat “When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.” ― Frédéric Bastiat “Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state. They forget that the state lives at the expense of everyone.” ― Frederick Bastiat “But how is this legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime.” ― Frederic Bastiat, The Law

[@stratecaster547]

Good question: lets ask the rest of the modern world.

[@ComradeCommissar17]

People in desperate situations are looking for the easy way out. Instead of trying to help themselves, they want the the government to bail them out.

[@joekurtz8303]

Sleeper cell, patiently waiting, but hide behind 1st Ammendment and our flag

[@Barskor1]

@@stratecaster547 let's go ask the rest of the world.. Argumentum ad populum fallacy.

[@magnusschmidt109]

I love how Americans who’ve never visited Scandinavia or experienced the economic system are making these ridiculous false fact statements. I lived in Denmark my whole life, it is a wellfare system, but embraces capitalism. We do tax the rich more than the average person, and yes, it works. Contrary to the billionaires in the United States, many of the wealthiest people in Denmark agree with paying more taxes to make the country stronger and guarantee more workforce for them down the line, and better overall infrastructure. However, it is not socialism, it is more considered as social-capitalism, meaning, a more compassionate system. We also have monopoly regulation, ensuring healthy competition to make sure nothing ends up like Amazon. Competition is what creates our rapid innovation and development, which has economic benefits in the long term. Please dont talk about something you dont know about. We also have unions for the workers, which has shown great benefits as the workers rights are taken into consideration. This has been done for 60 years, and has been the essential part of ensuring a great job market, and keeping people high in productivity.

[@homewall744]

That's great. Competition among ideas is key, and we'll see how it all turns out as those nations start adding more immigrants and continue down the path of questioning their own culture in the name of multiculturalism (all cultures, but our own, are good). Those countries are tiny and contribute almost nothing from a military standpoint. Which currency is the global currency? Which language? Where do people migrate to the most if given their choice?

[@ianmwangi4591]

Dude the roads you have ,the hospitals, fire department, public schools, public teachers doctors nurses, parks, police etc. If you really want free market come see how that's playing out in Kenya it's free relatively but its corrupt to the core because of this zombie idea of efficient market hypothesis that somehow the market knows how to regulate itself? For those who believe this, then ask yourself who bailed out wall street and their crooks.

[@andrewfreeman88]

What works in a tiny country of 5.6 million doesn't really work for a country of 330 million...That's like comparing Watermelons to Grapes and I'm well traveled and respect both places.

[@Dan16673]

You guys tried and fail with some dumb shit along the way. Ie 5 years unemployment benefits

[@bezlichnyy7675]

Thanks for informing us. It seems as if Denmark has a command economy. A command economy is not in complete control of the economy as in socialism or communism, for example, it only controls certain aspects of it determined by the government or whatever central authority. Unfortunately, the U.S. doesn't have capitalism, it has a mixed economy of regulations with some aspects less restricted than others. In the world at large, there is really not any country or nation that practices unregulated capitalism, however the closes countries I can think of that does capitalism better than the U.S. as well other countries is Hong Kong, Shenzen, and Shanghai. If want real capitalism, though use any cryptocurrencies with businesses that accept them, then my friend you will start to learn more about capitalism. Are you familiar with crytocurrencies?

[@homewall744]

There is no way to make a country strong or an economy strong other than to let people choose and innovate freely. You can't central plan a future that's uncertain. Adaptability is key, not hoping you can standardize on old successes to ensure future ones.

[@dead_or_alive2649]

It’s ludicrous to think about giving these big companies to the workers. Think about it, there is always some employees that try to get away with the least amount of work possible, not to mention trying to get them to agree on anything of substance. It would be just a disaster waiting to happen, that’s why companies have management to actually supervise the employees and keep them on track. Freebies are such a temptation for lazy citizens.

[@drake1896]

dude if the workers have actually get a share of there profit, of course they're going to be more productive

[@anthonyesposito7]

​@@drake1896 exactly, there is no incentive to work hard for a capitalist, capitalism doesn't reward hard work, Bezos doesn't work 3 billion times or whatever amount harder then his average employee. Under socialism the surplus value would go to the workers, for them to decide on what happens with it and how to utilize it. Capitalism rewards the worst things about human nature, greed, destruction, competition above all else including cooperation, and of course exploitation of labor. Socialism is and has always been the way forward but it will not happen until capitalism is destroyed once and for all.

[@drake1896]

@Anthony Esposito yeah I kind of tend to agree with you. In there big businesses were there's quotas being handed down, it really doesn't feel any different to a state socialist system. Luckily I'm in a job were we get paid productivity bonuses

[@anthonyesposito7]

@@drake1896 Yeah that's why state socialism sucks, the workers themselves should control everything democratically.

[@captrodgers4273]

if you want a see what a bernie presidentcy would look like its venezula

[@P90XGetRipped]

“Lies for the weak, beacons for the deluded” That Halo 3 quote should be Bernie’s slogan because that’s all he’s doing and that’s why he’s so successful in the Dem party

[@unclestinky6388]

It is debatable in the first place whether the Nordic countries have a good economy, they have had to resort to the desperate gimmick of negative interest rates for ten years for some reason. But one key difference between the economic characteristics of the Nordic countries and the US is that the Nordic countries did not let anyone in for decades. The US economy has grown *wide* , Nordic economies stayed the same or grew *up* to a minute degree. For example, there are roughly the same number of full-time jobs in Denmark as there was 10 years ago, the US has added ~20M in that same time frame. Similar to a labor union, the members/Nordic citizens benefited from whatever growth they managed to achieve rather than expanding and sharing that growth with more members/citizens.

[@MeanBeanComedy]

Who did the noise reduction on this? It sounds bad. Hire me.

[@CowboySanta]

A crap system by any other name, is still a crap system. And still stinks!

[@ScorpionXII]

Social democracies around the world outperform the USA in pretty much every societal health factor, so if social democracy is a crap system, why is the USA failing to keep up with it?

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

@@ScorpionXII "Social democracies around the world outperform the USA in pretty much every societal health factor" I can imagine the gay U.N. bullshit you will dig up to support that. "Happiness" and "equality"...

[@1torock]

I am scandinavian and here Sanders would be on the far left.

[@gerrylaverty-folksingerson7318]

Thank you.

[@synchronium24]

Bullshit. His policies are taken directly from the Scandanavian model, which includes Norway.

[@1torock]

@@synchronium24 NO, corporate tax is 22% i scandinavia, Sanders wants to raise US corporate tax to 28%, Sanders wants to tax rich peoples fortune, fortune tax was eliminated in the 90s. Sanders wants to cancel private healthcare insurance, we have and will keep private healthcare insurance. (this is just a few examples) Sanders don´t understand the Nordic model.

[@ed00001]

@@1torock Bernie bros know so much that isn't true.

[@jarrod752]

@@synchronium24 Did you even watch the video? His policies were taken from *1970's* Scandanavia... which has been ditched in favor of free market capitalism. You could at least watch the video up to the half way point if you want keep with the convo.

[@rjones9579]

Please hire speakers who pause at the end of each sentence.

[@macioluko9484]

@4:05 Yeah! And Rosanne wants that cake to make her look like Fergie... But it ain't happenin' @12:38 So... Jamestown...

[@jmoney6652]

The game is only rigged for those who don’t learn the rules. 🤪

[@skjenco]

What Marx/Engels saw in places like mid 19th Century Manchester England drove many of their ideas. It also drove their followers. There were numerous example of why there was a moral cause for change. So what happened to Early 19th century Socialism in England and France? Why didn't the oppress gravitate to Socialism? Well they did, but Socialism had to compete with better ideas such as "organized labor". In short Socialism lost. We are now the benefactors of better ideas that combated social injustice . Socialism by what ever name you want to call it has a losing history. On the other hand Social programs within Capitalism have achieve many of the goals of Socialism. What is so bad about the here and now that would compel us to such an extreme experiment with socialism and its many failures. Note a devastated post WWII Europe will once again try socialism (for obvious reasons) only to move back toward Capitalism. For those being taught by Marxist you are not getting the full story. This is a great video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oKKWp4mYmcyAq7M

[@SacredGrooves4]

This is such bull! Great way to talk us all into giving up on a better life for ourselves so we can work ourselves to death in order to keep bailouts and tax cuts for the richest people on the planet!

[@serpens8]

democratic socialist is just an euphemism, it means socialist, even Castro denied he is a communist, he said, he is a democrat and a humanist, even in communist countries were elections, and the ruling parties were usually socialist parties in name, theoretically there were democracy, I know well, because I lived in communism in Hungary

[@blueheart8786]

In ill educated America all of Europe is socialistic and the Nordic are all commies

[@johnnyappleseed6960]

55% Federal Income Taxes, plus another 25% Federal Sales Tax tacked on top, should never sound appealing to anyone.... It's the Middle & Working classes that ALWAYS end up paying the tab.....In America, that kind of Tax Scheme would crush the poor.

[@NwoDispatcher]

Taxation is seizing the means of production

[@VadelmahilloVideotuotanto]

The real question is whether he's a democratic socialist or a capitalist social democrat...

[@kkhunt7]

Thank you! I've asked several Bernie supporters this question and not one has explained the difference. They either say that they are the same exact thing or say "why don't you just listen to what he calls himself". There's a difference between the two, but for some reason Bernie supporters don't seem to know that.

[@Stewsdrums]

And I would like to know why people that support him so much let him get away with betraying his Base by refusing to speak about Hillary's corrupt voting record saying it would be not so nice that tells me he has turned to the dark side and it's just another corporate puppet pretending to be someone who supports the Working Poor of course it's obvious both parties are controlled by multi-national corporations that received 1.8 trillion dollars every year in corporate socialism and are free to do whatever they want with it no questions asked while the small business men and women suffer competing with cheap slave labor

[@assfukwut]

Planet Express maybe just look at his policies? He’s a moderate social democrat by European standards

[@assfukwut]

Planet Express lol I find most conservatives have no idea what social democracy is and they just scream communism when you talk about universal healthcare. Fucking bizarre

[@a_lucientes]

There is no question Sanders is the latter. There is no legitimate Left in the US political establishment.

[@aaronacosta3539]

Socialism does not need a modifier.Socialism is socialism no matter how you try to define it.

[@hrbeta]

Reason TV, there is a very enlightening (and rare) book by Venezuelan author Carlos Rangel titled The Latin Americans (1976 first edition - but still extremely current). The English title doesn’t reflect the real theme of the book which is a historical recount of socialism/communism. It’s a very valuable tool to understand the Left’s goals, how it was seeded into the Third World and now, how it is permeating into the First World (most likely thanks to careless immigration policies). A must read for inquiring, politically inclined minds, IMVHO.

[@Bill_Woo]

I wonder what type of parents teach their children to take forcibly from others, rather than succeed by achievement.

[@earlbedfordjr83]

This isnt parents. This is teachers doing what the religion of feminism tells them to. Because Feminism always was and always will be trying to create a communist system where sex, gender, mental illness, and race are classes and we are all enslaves to a feminist government. Because being enslaved to a feminist government is female liberation somehow.

[@cretansuperbos2121]

@Jacob L Lmfao! Even Marx himself excoriated the socialist dreamers who idealized primitive, pre-property societies.

[@earlbedfordjr83]

@Jacob L Bullshit. The concept of property is needed and valuable. Socialism like Feminism trying to enact it is evil and only does harm. There is nothing good about a socialist government because socialism doesnt work. Communism which is required when socialism goes Venezuela doesnt work. Do you know why socialism doesnt work? Because you dont get the fruits of your labor, the government gets it. You get the bare minimum to survive. There is no way to advance in a socialist society. Unlike Capitalist America, in a socialist society when you are born poor you stay poor. In the society Bernie wants everyone but the elites (the ones who will kill the current activists calling for socialism.) to be destitute. Bernie wants to kill those who are the best at something. ALL SOCIALISTS ARE ENEMIES OF THE CONSTITUTION AND AMERICA.

[@gagamba9198]

Have you ever seen a public toilet? A real one, like in a park. Imagine if your bedroom become a public one. When you remove ownership you remove responsibility, the need to maintain, to improve, to add value. Further, when you own something you know you have the use of it when you want. You don't have to wait, search, and hope for the best.

[@gagamba9198]

Thanks. Something like shared property _may_ work in an urban area where there are many vehicles, but you run into issues of rush hour where most the of cars move to the workplace areas leaving few in residential areas. In rural areas this would be very difficult to accomplish. People would be stuck dozens of miles away from transport. Of course, regardless of area, people refueling / recharging the cars, keeping them tidy, paying for maintenance, etc. (or, more likely, failing to do all of these) would soon render the system dysfunctional. It's known as the tragedy of the commons.

[@nancybromley5437]

Why are Bernie's initials BS?

[@Baker.Matthew]

It though Ben Shapiro’s initials were BS

[@tootsrr1]

Because he's full of it

[@user-ds9bk6nu4x]

Labels are pointless. Arguments should be made on a topic to topic basis. Not based upon labels.

[@barrywhite9114]

The Survey Is Flawed!

[@pennise]

Totalitarianism is good as long as you are the one charge.

[@synchronium24]

You think Norway is totalitarian?

[@pennise]

@@synchronium24 I don't see where I mentioned Norway or referred to it in my comment at all. You might want to check your reading comprehension.

[@synchronium24]

@@pennise My point was that Bernie's politics are like that of Norway. Unless you think Norway is totalitarian, your charges of totalitarianism against Bernie make no sense.

[@pennise]

@@synchronium24 No, his policies are not like Norway's. In fact, just recently, the Prime Minister of Norway debunked that claim. Norway has less government control over businesses than the U.S.; however, Norway has higher taxes. Norway's government supports the oil industry and that brings them much of their tax money. Bernie would shut down our oil industry. A shot and a miss. Want to try again?

[@chriscarpenter5160]

Scandinavian doesn't have a government bought by corporations to do their bidding and avoid taxes, that's a massive difference. The disparity of wealth is peanuts in comparison in the US

[@H1TMANactual]

Denmark has a higher wealth inequality than America: www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/08/which-countries-have-the-most-wealth-per-capita/ Derp harder! Besides, *It's. Not. A. Zero-sum. Game.*

[@vanceg6387]

Why are so many Americans against socialized health care? Schools, fire departments, public libraries, police departments, roads, USPS, museums, VA, national parks, the military, are all socialized programs funded by tax dollars, what's wrong with adding health care to the list? As long as it pertains to the well-being of citizens, the general populous should all shoulder it; nobody should go bankrupt just because they have cancer. It's really sad to see your country in such disarray over something already implemented by most of the first world countries. Good luck from your neighbours up north.

[@Xeper616]

Neither, he is a social democrat (at least in practice)

[@lawrence-dol]

Scandinavian countries also have high income tax rates, with top tiers being circa 60%

[@dosmastrify]

Most educated people say hes more of a "social democrat"

[@theangrycheeto]

He is

[@weibullguy]

This is NOT what I thought Peter Suderman would look like.

[@taragonleaf8005]

I know this seems like a small issue to pick out of there but universal pre-k is just a way to subsidize families with two working parents. Most of my coworkers have both adults working and they make more than I do. My wife is a full time mom with our daughter at home. I've had several talk about how they struggle financially and I just wonder where all their money goes. universal pre-k is just a glorified daycare service.

[@stephenkneller6435]

While it is true that Bernie’s platform will be DOA in Congress in its current form, that is does not change the content of his platform. The question of whether Sanders is a socialist needs to be judged based upon his platform, not its probability of being enacted. To answer the question, one merely needs review his website, specifically the page titled “Corporate Accountability and Democracy”. Her Bernie proposes two changes which clearly answers the question. The first proposal would mandate corporate board changes for nearly all medium and large companies. Here Sanders would force 45% of the board vote to be controlled by workers. (This is found under “Democratize Corporate Boards” paragraph.) He would argue that share holders would still have the majority vote, but at least the workers have a say. But this is untrue. His second proposal is that nearly all medium and large corporations will be required to give, not sell, at least 20% of company stocks to the workers. It will be collectively managed. (This is found under “Share Corporate Wealth with Workers”.) The if one looks under the webpage for “Workplace Democracy”, Sanders defines what he means by the workers. His vision would see automatic recognition for all new unions, a limited timeline to force a first contract which will be binding, and a NLRB charged not only to favor unions, but also be the final arbiter in all matters. In fact, the NLRB would have the power to control all unions. Sanders goes further and proposes a syndicalists style takeover of the economy where unions in each sector would decide on all standards, pay, and benefits for all companies nationwide. Under Sanders plan, workers would then control 45% of the board vote as well as 11% of the stock vote, giving the workers a majority 51% control of all these companies. Is Sanders a socialist? Anyone who would mandate that nearly all medium and large companies give up a 51% of the board’s powers to their workers without compensation is a socialist. This again proves that adding the adjective “democratic” in front of “socialist” does not change the fact that such a “socialist” is no different than any other “socialist.” berniesanders.com/issues/

[@amilkadelgado4891]

Great post! He is absolutely a socialist much more aligned ideologically with prior failed states than anything resembling the Nordic countries, as he and his naive supporters claim. All one has to do is actually read and understand his policies.

[@annatardlordofderps9181]

Under rated and liked post.

[@blarpusbundersnatch9431]

I was waiting for the "gotcha" moment in this. It all sounds pretty reasonable and sensible to me. Corporations have been making reckless decisions without much concern for the average worker for 4 decades now. How else could you tip the scales to benefit workers and destroy the notion that people who sit at a table and play boss are more valuable than the people who actually make the products?

[@Sue-ec6un]

Great post! Thanks

[@annatardlordofderps9181]

@@blarpusbundersnatch9431 "Think of.how stupid the average person is, than realize half of them are even dumber than that."

[@b0ld6]

I like how "Reason" magazine tries to critically "reason" through democratic socialism by using a Libertarian leaning interviewer discussing the ideas with a conservative think tank researcher (ie also likely Libertarian if you know American politics). Really living up to the ideals of the Enlightenment here

[@GunznSwords101]

Can I get an “Ad Hominem” everybody?

[@Loathomar]

So, the biggest tax that just effect the wealthy in the US and in places like Finland is capital gains taxes. In Finland, the capital gains taxes is 30-34% in the US most people pay the long term capital gains tax, which is 0 to 20%. Given the rich generally pay the highest on both, that 34% in the Finland and 20% in the US. Denmark it is 42% and Sweden it is 30%. The US also has a regressive tax on worker that is the payroll tax, which taxes businesses for employing people at 6.2% and all working people at 6.2%, effectively taxing worker who earn less then $127,200 at 12.4% which effectively taxing the rich at 0 percent. Replacing the payroll tax with a VAT would be FAR FAR FAR more effective. Rather then taxing US worker for working, making EVERYTHING the US makes more costly, we tax people on what they buy. Ei, currently if a US company hire someone to build a widget at $20 per hour per widget there is an effective 12.4% additional cost for a US worker to buy a US item, but if that same item at the same cost per hour is made in China, there is not an additional cost. This is also true for exporting goods too, and when the US charges taxes for our work and other countries taxes goods, our goods are taxes twice while there good here never get taxed. Also, the rich pay VAT while they don't pay payroll. We don't or should need an "eat the rich", "billionaires are evil" policy, we just need a tax policy that is far. Replace the payroll tax with a VAT and removing the capital gains tax for income over $100K from capital gains and just use the current income tax. This will change the average US billionaire tax rate 23%, over then the average American household, to ~45%. No new wealth tax, nothing that seems to just punish the super rich, just a few small changes to close insane loopholes and improved tax system that makes the US more competitive around the world and removes taxes that ONLY effects everyone but the rich and super rich.

[@Wesrl]

I not joke got a Trump ad and then right after got a Bernie ad.

[@kittencure]

The idiocy in this discussion is truly ground-breaking. Time to get out of your bubble. Both Scandinavia (Finland, Norway especially), but even Denmark, Sweden and most of Eastern Europe (except Hungary perhaps? are social democracies: capitalist systems mindful of the basic needs of every single person, universally: healthcare, education, so that their citizens can grow the economy by creating added value, not just earning money in order to struggle for basic survival. There's a very big bubble in the US and I am very sorry about it.

[@PokeChampionHQ]

Would love this guy to debate Richard wolf

[@Muonium1]

lol Wolf is a laughable hack that 19 year old reddit communists think is "deep and profound"

[@SeparadoresAtecon]

What good is it to know how to read if you can't read whatever you want

[@dosmastrify]

Wheres the normal interviewer?

[@69snuffleupagus]

"You can have industrialization without killing or repression. Just look at Japan, just look at South Korea." I think you're going to have to check your history dude ...

[@VorpalDerringer]

Was Japan imperialist during the period 1850-1900 when they were industrializing?

[@hatter3555]

@@VorpalDerringer Yes First japanese-chinese war Japanese-russian war?

[@42billybob]

@@VorpalDerringer Very much so. Went to war to claim resources, conquered territory, had an Emperor & everything. Post Isolationism Japan was basically that kid on the playground who found out what Pokemon cards were 3 years after it was popular and got *really* into it... but with imperial colonialism.

[@VorpalDerringer]

@@hatter3555 I said 1900. Wasnt the Russo-Japanese war 1905?

[@gsacelm7753]

He's talking post-WW2 terms

[@artemiasalina1860]

"The origins of *democratic socialism* can be traced to 19th-century *utopian socialist* thinkers and the British Chartist movement that somewhat differed in their goals yet all shared the essence of democratic decision making and *public ownership of the means of production* as positive characteristics of the society they advocated for.[11] In the late 19th century and early 20th century, democratic socialism was also influenced by social democracy. The *gradualist form of socialism* promoted by *the British Fabian Society* and Eduard Bernstein's evolutionary socialism in Germany influenced the development of democratic socialism.[12][13][14][15] *Democratic socialism is what most socialists understand by the concept of socialism."* en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism

[@abarbar06]

7:48 I don't think so. Land value tax is the most efficient tax. Milton Friedman called it the "least bad tax"

[@CharlesLumia]

Wages have been stagnant for average folks. People don't have homes. People don't have families. The country is worse off than it used to be. Why? Mass immigration is number one. The labor market works on supply and demand like every other market and we've flooded it with foreigners since the 1965 immigration act. Tens of millions of people. Never before seen numbers. It's not even close. That increase of labor directly corresponds with the wage stagnation. Bad trade is number two. Trade agreements like NAFTA and trade with China has shipped millions of jobs out of the country so the rich can get richer. We don't pay less. We don't have more. We have less of the things that matter like marriages, children, and homes. I'm not a Bernie Sanders supporter or a Republican. I'm just not a potato.

[@roblovely15]

the answer Is neither... He is a Social Democrat Democratic socialism is way to the left of Bernie Sanders let alone Socialism

[@suckmysilencer747]

You say that and then this video broke down that well worn talking point like a twig. He is clearly further left than a social democrat. When he calls himself a socialist, he means it.

[@chubbyninja842]

The following is directly from the Democratic Socialists of America webpage from their actual Constitution: "Article II. Purpose We are socialists because we reject an economic order based on private profit..." That's the whole free market system right there! They reject it! They're not "democratic socialists", they're just plain-old socialists pretending to be something different so they can get your support.

[@boltvanderhuge1273]

He's a socialist parading as a social democrat because it's more politically viable.

[@roblovely15]

@@suckmysilencer747 I've talked two actual Democratic socialists Trust me Bernie Sanders is now one of them.

[@roblovely15]

@@chubbyninja842 my whole point is that he is not a Democratic socialist... Quoting the DSA does nothing

[@victoriancu7358]

"Bernie is such a great guy he'll give you the shirt off someone else's back"

[@Golivewiththis]

Neither. No politician in the US even comes close to that definition :D

[@rushikeshgupte5061]

more people live in NYC than in norway no way the two contries have any kind of comaparison

[@ID1visor]

Like Aron Flam and Henrik Jönsson said when they were guests on The Rubin report, "Sweden succeeded despite socialism not because of it".

[@exoticgirl1]

As a European let me say this, neither socialism nor capitalism decide a nations success! It's the execution of it and the balance between the two! Democratic socialism is a balance, but what America has is corperate socialism, or rather corperate communism in America's case, which is what unchecked capitalism is! Bernie isn't a radical, nor is he a radical leftist. Social democracy is not a one size fits all philosophy. It will be taylormade to the needs of America

[@lewissunflower6397]

Is he a thief or democratic thief? Who cares, same criminal.

[@longanddeadly]

But if enough people vote to violate people's property rights then it's not a violation because reasons.

[@evanharper578]

a thief steals from others for himself, robinhood steals from the rich to give back to the poor. you don’t like democratic socialism because you’ve been coerced by republicanism not to, think for yourself.

[@longanddeadly]

@@evanharper578 aka I'm unable innovate or generate anything of service or value on my own so naturally I am entitled something from other people because I can fart. This is why you're called non player characters, you just regurgitate the same empty rhetoric that's it. What about people who grew up poor but are wealthy now, who did they oppress? People aren't born equal, you cant objectively measure equality, it's a non sensical term. You cant achieve magical fabled unicorn equality.

[@joshuad1091]

Evan Harper the idea that you can only get rich by taking from the poor is such a widespread lie, here’s an article for you to explain how that is physically impossible www.forbes.com/sites/rainerzitelmann/2019/05/14/no-the-rich-didnt-get-rich-at-the-expense-of-the-poor/amp/

[@beobhan]

You're talking about Trump right? Don't know who else can even remotely be described in that underlying message.

[@CaptivaLP]

Why is it so difficult to understand the fundamental differences between socialism and communism? American Education must suck

[@jimjohnson1305]

Sanders is a communist who believes he has to start off with "Democratic Socialism." The truth is Bernie is just an old idiot. The middle class in Denmark are taxed at 59% on $55,000 and up.

[@tamashadaszy367]

There is FUNDAMENTALLY no difference. The accurate term is COLLECTIVIST to describe both.

[@chubbyninja842]

There is LITERALLY no difference. The following is directly from the Democratic Socialists of America webpage from their actual Constitution: "Article II. Purpose We are socialists because we reject an economic order based on private profit..." That's the whole free market system right there! They reject it! They're not "democratic socialists (DC)", they're just plain-old socialists. This whole "democratic" thing is just set dressing. If a DC claims not to be a straight-up socialist, they're either lying, ignorant, stupid, or some combination thereof.

[@voswouter87]

It's never been tried before? Eh, yes it has and it failed every time.

[@FrankHarwald]

Indeed - about every formerly existing socialist country called itself democratic & preached democracy & they all failed, except North Korea & China. & China looks like they are partly moving away from socialist plans while other still existing socialist parts are crumbling under their feet as well.

[@voswouter87]

@@FrankHarwald Except China? China very much claims to be democratic. And China was a complete disaster. They got fake capitalism, by allowing people in regions to use their property as the people want. But on paper the Chinese government still owns everything. If anything they're trying to restore control over the population and economics. Through their spying, pushing development of certain technologies, taking control of IP. That IP is a good thing, governments should never enforce this in the first place.

[@FrankHarwald]

@@voswouter87 true, the CCP tries to restore control over population & economics, but that doesn't prevent it from simultaneously crumbling apart under their own feet.

[@spacemanwithraygun3933]

Neither, he is a Marxist.

[@TheFreepain]

I am from Norway and an elected politician. What he say about Skandinavia is wrong. We do have a 50% tax rate at the higher margins. And about half the population vote for a socialdemocatic, enviromentalist, socialist or communist party.

[@anindividual4916]

The answer is yes