Is Calvinism unfair? - KingdomCraft

[@ArgieHandle]

John Calvin: "Finally I found diamonds! 🥰" *forgets about the lava* John Calvin: "Hold my tulips, I'm about to reform the church 😡"

[@purify1512]

Aaaaa... Here come the popey no spinach left the faking kalvin has eat it alll.. There you go Mr popey look. 50℅ scripture, 100℅ traditional. Unfailable popey you r genious 150 ℅ authority. While kalvin have exactly 100℅.

[@billotron5521]

💀

[@RockiestRock]

Fortunately I have the free will to reject Calvinism

[@socalkook370]

According to Calvin, God determined that you, among the majority of Christians, will reject the truth about God because God wishes it. Because it totally makes sense that God shows most of his children the truth only to hide it again, apparently.

[@innadesertDOTjpg]

Got me chucklin rn

[@BenjaminAnderson21]

@@socalkook370 Calvin didn't believe that a single Christian or child of God will ever reject the truth. He believed that once a person repents and believes in Christ, he is forever held in the love of God and can never be separated from it by anything in all of creation.

[@iamjohnfarlow]

@@BenjaminAnderson21 It is a wrong belief.

[@socalkook370]

​@@BenjaminAnderson21 If Calvin's deterministic view of God is truth, and no child of God will ever reject the truth about God, how do you explain the fact that the vast majority of professing Christians reject this "truth" about God? Are you suggesting that anyone who does not agree with everything Calvin taught is not actually a Christian and therefore not elect?

[@CreepyEnderPig]

As a person from the south who's been to more baptist churches then I could count, I can confirm that your baptist impersonation is acurerate.

[@TheDragonSeer]

I found it cringey, but you do you.

[@conneraldeqn9751]

Losing those diamonds was a canon event Also shoutout to fellow lutherans🙏

[@9box906]

The issue I keep running into with Calvinism is what it says about God's nature: Calvinism seems to say that God wants to save some people and not others, but 1 Timothy 2:3-4 says that God wants everyone to be saved and to know the truth.

[@rhys09876]

He wants everyone to be saved but that doesn’t mean he will, it wouldn’t be correct to save everyone because there would be no point in being a Christian, if he didn’t save anybody he wouldn’t be a gracious God.

[@briandiehl9257]

@@rhys09876 "it wouldn’t be correct to save everyone because there would be no point in being a Christian." That is literally the argument the older son made in the parable of the prodigal son. God shouldn't send people to hell so we can be more 'special' as christians

[@rhys09876]

@@briandiehl9257 No, the point of being a Christian is following God which includes following his commandments, if he saved everyone there would be no point in following his commandments because “I’m going to heaven anyways just like everyone else”. While when he saves only the elect there is much more of a motivation to keep his commandments because you don’t deserve grace but he gave it to you while he could’ve given you what you deserve like other people. You would want to keep his commandments because he saved you from hell just like you would want to pay a life guard or do a favor for him when he saves you from drowning. This would not apply to the opposite since there is no concept of “deserving” if everyone is saved.

[@briandiehl9257]

@@rhys09876 *" if he saved everyone there would be no point in following his commandments."* That is blatantly false. Why does other people going to heaven negate your will to follow God's commandments? God saving others should motivate you even more to want to follow God's commands. Again this is exactly what the older brother. *"You would want to keep his commandments because he saved you from hell just like you would want to pay a life guard or do a favor for him when he saves you from drowning" * I wouldn't want to pay a life guard if he purposely let everyone else drown.

[@rhys09876]

@@briandiehl9257 You have a good point, but if everyone went to heaven he wouldn’t be a just God because he wouldn’t be giving anyone what they deserve

[@BIoomingOnion]

Really enjoying this so far even as a non-Calvinist but wasting that glass at 9:01 was the worst thing I’ve seen on this channel.

[@CaptainX2012]

I felt so much pain

[@theintelligentmilkjug944]

He was predestined to do that

[@Chicky_Lumps]

That heartbreaking moment when you conveniently need glass panes in a multiple of 16, and misplace one before having Silk Touch.

[@yeetoburrito9972]

Just an example of total depravity in action 😔

[@Young_Christian7]

​@@theintelligentmilkjug944exactly what I was gonna say

[@joedan5366]

Me: so your calavanist A calavinist: yes Me: I am so sorry for you A calavanist: why Me: you had no choice

[@barryallen119]

*Calvinist. Dudes name was Calvin

[@timothysullivan1669]

It’s fine, he was predestined to make that mistake. Can you really hold him accountable for it?

[@tylerbuckner3750]

No Calvinist has ever taught that man “has no choice”. I mean, at least learn about what you’re criticizing before misrepresenting it.

[@joedan5366]

@tylerbuckner3750 I intended this as a joke But since you wanna get theological kzbin.info/www/bejne/lYKXi2lsoatleaM Irresistible grace removes your choice from the equation so does unconditional election

[@yunaru3643]

​@@tylerbuckner3750that's what predestination in calvinism is, though. Singular predestination does allow free will, but double predestination does not.

[@taylorwickham]

My problem with Clavinism is that it implies that God creates people for the express purpose of going to hell. That doesn't seem like something an omnibenevolent God would do.

[@lesliecuff2079]

Great comment.

[@toethegangsta]

Romans 9

[@taylorwickham]

@@toethegangsta just read it. Still not a Calvinist.

[@andre_lluis]

Fun fact: Zoomer never did this video before just because he couldn't find a "diamond right above a notorious pool of lava" situation

[@dariusg7044]

Man I remember when I was a Calvinist and I really thought this made sense

[@dariusg7044]

9:30 How are they the ones who are getting the fair/just treatment, if they were literally pre-programmed before birth to sin? They couldn't do otherwise, by ur own admission they don't have free will.

[@jaxonspage]

@@dariusg7044 We have a will that is able to make legitimate choices but desires sin and therefore will not choose God. Our wills are free to sin but not free from sin: able to desire to choose God. Read Edwards' freedom of the will because he distinguishes natural ability to believe vs moral ability to believe from the scriptures

[@BenjaminAnderson21]

@@dariusg7044 To say we were programmed to sin implies that there is design to our sinfulness. But sin isn't design, it is the corruption of design.

[@pipinfresh]

@@dariusg7044 Calvinism doesn't remove moral responsibility from human action. This is a misunderstanding of Calvinism. We are not predestined to sin we are in bondage to sin because of Adam's sin and the fall. God is not the author of sin.

[@JosiahTheSiah]

@@pipinfresh But I thought the choosing happened before the foundation of the world? Which would mean...before Adam sinned.

[@King_Immanuel]

wasted a diamond just for the intro 😢

[@thebrickaniac]

Across the Spiderverse is basically the Calvinism movie

[@lefebre27]

More like the Molinist

[@zuffin1864]

Except instead of God Creating the earth he created the spider-person creating sequence, that can never be broken 😂

[@bastiwmr]

Things I looked up: 2:16 The acronym TULIP states the five essential doctrines of total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and perseverance of the saints 3:23 Provisionism claims that anyone can be saved. It rejects the idea that only a select few are chosen for salvation. 4:42 John Calvin (1509-1564) was a French theologian and pastor known for developing Calvinism, a system of Christian theology emphasizing predestination and God's absolute sovereignty in salvation. His teachings have influenced Congregational, Reformed, and Presbyterian churches globally. 4:48 Augustine of Hippo (354-430) was a Berber theologian, philosopher, and bishop of Hippo Regius in Roman North Africa. His writings greatly influenced Western philosophy and Christianity, making him a significant Church Father in the Patristic Period. 7:10 “I the Lord do not change. So you, the descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed. (Malachi 3:6) 10:12 Blessed is he whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the LORD does not count against him and in whose spirit is no deceit. (Psalm 32,1-2) 11:19 Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. (Matthew 7:7) 12:50 Calvin's Geneva Catechism is a Reformed catechism (a manual of religious teachings) developed by John Calvin in 1541. It served as a guide for teaching the principles of the Reformed faith. The catechism was widely used by Reformed churches in Europe. 14:40 Paul Washer (*1961) is an American preacher and missionary. 18:11 From birth I have relied on you; you brought me forth from my mother's womb. I will ever praise you. (Psalm 71,6)

[@yeetoburrito9972]

Thanks for this! Especially that Psalm 71 reference, I was gonna say Psalm 22 and 23 have nothing to do with infant faith 😂

[@FirstnameLastname-yk2js]

Calvin was also a Tyrant that had people killed for not converting to Calvinism

[@bastiwmr]

@@FirstnameLastname-yk2js Cool

[@jayy7842]

He infact, did not "put the verse on the screen"

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

I did not. Evidence of original sin and total depravity (it corrupts my memory)

[@planteruines5619]

​@@redeemedzoomer6053og sin yes , total depravity , not so much

[@mrladmanny]

​@redeemedzoomer6053 Don't worry, it was predestined to happen it's not your fault

[@Albanian_crusader]

He was predestinated to forget about it

[@eclipsesonic]

Revelation 22:17 - "Let the one WHO DESIRES take the water of life freely." I think that speaks to human free will in regards to salvation, with God's help and drawing of course (John 6:44), but we can choose to reject God's calling or drawing of the Holy Spirit and because of that, I believe these passages I'm about to cite totally destroy the doctrine of irresistible grace: "The Lord, the God of their fathers, sent persistently to them by his messengers, because he had compassion on his people and on his dwelling place; but they kept mocking the messengers of God, despising his words, and scoffing at his prophets, till the wrath of the Lord rose against his people, till there was no remedy." - 2 Chronicles 36:15-16 I spread out my hands all the day to a rebellious people, who walk in a way that is not good, following their own devices" - Isaiah 65:2 (Quoted in Romans 10:21) "I will destine you to the sword, and all of you shall bow down to the slaughter; because, when I called, you did not answer, when I spoke, you did not listen, but you did what was evil in my eyes, and CHOSE what I did not delight in.” - Isaiah 65:12 "I also will choose affliction for them, and bring their fears upon them; because, when I called, no one answered, when I spoke they did not listen; but they did what was evil in my eyes, and CHOSE that in which I did not delight.” - Isaiah 66:4 "Because I have called and you refused to listen, have stretched out my hand and no one has heeded." - Proverbs 1:24 "And now, because you have done all these things, says the Lord, and when I spoke to you persistently you did not listen, and when I called you, you did not answer." - Jeremiah 7:13 "You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you." - Acts 7:51 We harden our own hearts. God only hardens people's heart because they themselves have already hardened their own hearts as a self-induced state. I love my Calvinist brothers and sisters in the Lord, but I do disagree with you on this particular topic.

[@gwynn2165]

I’ve been fighting Calvinism for the past year ever since a class debate. Our teacher was a Calvinist and let a side that didn’t even believe what they were saying, broke the debate rules, and went against the Bible in an argument win just to fuel his narrative. As much as the Bible speaks on being chosen, it also speaks on accepting Jesus, repenting and letting God into our heart. I also believe Calvinism is an arrogant way of thinking. What makes you worth saving when billions of others burn in the flames of hell for something out of their control? I believe that we all deserve hell and that salvation is by God’s grace, but I would never think that God’s grace is limited because of that. And suppose I was not “chosen”, then what is the point of my existence? Why should I not kill myself then and there if I’m going to the same destination? What is the meaning of life if we have no free will? God would not put people on this earth for no reason. And where is the line drawn to what’s in our control and what isn’t? If free will isn’t truly real, then neither is accountability. We are God’s children, not God’s puppets. Having free will does not contradict his planning, we have free will because he allows us autonomy. Take the Tower of Babel for example, that was human’s folly, but God still gave consequence. Same with Adam and Eve, and Sodom and Gomorrah. That was our vice and God’s intervention, however we still made our decision. I could probably keep writing but I’m gonna go to bed now.

[@Mic1904]

_"I also believe Calvinism is an arrogant way of thinking. What makes you worth saving when billions of others burn in the flames of hell for something out of their control? I believe that we all deserve hell and that salvation is by God’s grace, but I would never think that God’s grace is limited because of that."_ You ask, 'What makes you worth saving when billions of others burn in hell'. Yet you believe that some people through their own freewill will choose Jesus and be saved. How is it less 'arrogant' to assume that some people will actually gain salvation through their own human action of accepting Jesus? You've claimed that God choosing humans to save is somehow arrogant on the part of those humans... yet your alternative is that those humans themselves played a part in whether they were saved or not. And you don't think THAT is arrogant, that the humans themselves were involved in choosing their own salvation?

[@gwynn2165]

@@Mic1904 In Calvinism, those who are “unchosen” are basically lambs to the slaughter by God. That completely contradicts anything in the Bible that talks about sharing the Gospel, or us repenting and letting God into our hearts, which are crucial in our religion. God is fair and God is just, but the idea that humans have no God-given free will denies us any real reason for living. What is the point to existence if you truly cannot come to God and spread the gospel? Do you really believe that God put them on this earth just to revel in sin and then burn in hell?

[@Mic1904]

​@@gwynn2165 Very well: please describe your version of Christianity, where an omniscient God creates beings with full knowledge of their ultimate destination (including Hell), but isn't ultimately responsible for allowing them to be created for this destination. What many fail to realise is: the discomfort they have with the logical implications of 'Calvinism' are uncomfortable implications of Christianity that they have to face one way or another.

[@gwynn2165]

@@Mic1904 In no way did that answer my question or refute anything I’ve said. The problem with Calvinists isn’t that they view things differently, but the fact that for all the points they make there is just as much support for arguments against it, and they never care to actually refute points made. You asked me to define Christianity, well all Christians are united under the Nicene Creed meaning that we believe in 1 God 3 Persons, and in the divine nature of Jesus Christ being sent down paying the price for our sins. I don’t believe Jesus Christ only saved some of sinners. For the wages of sin is death, but in Christ we have received eternal life. Romans 10:9 gives direct instructions on how to accept salvation from God. John 3:16 “who so ever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” Even with this being said, Salvation is through Christ alone and we are made clean by Jesus. We are not saved through works but by faith in God.

[@gwynn2165]

@@TheChildrensTeethAreSetOnEdge it seems like you misunderstand. Even in my belief we are still dead in our own sin and saved by God’s grace. Relating my statements to Pelagius is just incorrect and a straw man argument. In Pelagianism he believes that the original sin in the garden of Eden *did not taint human nature* thus we still hold the ability to achieve perfection. We were not debating anything related to that nor did I ever say anything of the sort. Never will we meet the means of perfection and nothing is done by acts but by God’s *grace*. We fall on our own because we are all sinful and are given the gift of eternal life through Christ. The issue with your argument is that you debate things that we both agree on. Sin is unavoidable, we are only saved through Christ alone and not by actions, and God is the ultimate authority. I’m looking at this from the angle also of average life. Why do we put modern day criminals in prison? Because their actions show them as a potential threat, and they need to be held accountable to learn. Which isn’t possible in the concept that posses absolutely no free will. People seem not to like answering this question and so I’m separating it from the rest of what I have written. I don’t want to see a post if it doesn’t have some form of an answer. What is the point of life if we have no free will specifically for those whom are not chosen by God to be saved, why do we blame people for their actions and why spread the gospel?

[@IDONTKNOW1072]

Calvinism is unfair. John Calvin is in there. Standing at the procession. Plotting his oppression.

[@Jando859_]

I see what you did there 😂

[@charlespascual7518]

Spongebob taking down Calvinism

[@huntervii6573]

@charlespascual7518 Probably more like Squidward telling SpongeBob to yell it at people

[@Jhd306ck]

Underrated Comment

[@ebercondrell6603]

As a non-calvinist I appreciate your level representation of the issue. So many reformed baptist types get so up in arms about it and demand that we all submit to the truth of tulip. I like Gavin Ortlund's emphasis on the "both/and" relationship between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. Whatever we emphasize, the truth remains that God saves who he wills according to his mercy, and all of those people will have faith.

[@lukaspersson4051]

2 Peter 3:9: The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. That wouldn’t make sense if God predestines people to go to hell and we don’t have free will anymore. If we didn’t have free will he would predestine everyone to go to heaven because he doesn’t want anyone to perish. He knows who will be saved but we choose to get saved or not and God tests us to see if we keep our faith

[@kriegjaeger]

Also consider hardening hearts. Multiple occasions God had to harden the heart of people to prevent them from accepting him. That's the opposite of election and if we accept Calvinism it's less choosing people and more damning those who WOULD have repented.

[@TheSwiftCreek2]

It does make sense. Everyone who is chosen may not even have been born yet. God will keep the devil at bay until He has brought all of His children to the fold.

[@libatonvhs]

For He saith to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God who showeth mercy. 17 For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, “Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show My power in thee, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth.” 18 Therefore hath He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will, He hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, “Why doth He yet find fault, for who hath resisted His will?” 20 But nay, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, “Why hast thou made me thus?” 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay to make from the same lump one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor?

[@kriegjaeger]

@@libatonvhs A good reference, though I would also point out regarding Pharaoh that only once does it say God Hardened his heart. The other times it only states Pharaoh hardened his heart. So it would appear that Pharaoh did reject God of his own will before God hardened his heart. Another example is Christ explained he taught in parables so the people would NOT accept him at that time and to fulfill prophecy. Once that was fulfilled and he was enthroned, those people It would seem were free to follow him. In light of this it doesn't seem to entail the Calvinistic view that people cannot come to him. If NO ONE could come to him, blinding or hardening temporarily would not be necessary.

[@libatonvhs]

@@kriegjaeger Fair enough, I'm actually not Calvinist, just thought it's important to keep this passage in mind when discussing this

[@dustintaber]

There was a moment in this video that I waswas brought to tears and I just had to say, “I love you God.” He is working through you, my guy. Your theology makes sense and now I’m starting to think I might be Calvinist. God bless you, Redeemed Zoomer!

[@PurpleNoir]

Calvinism has always been a very interesting and kinda frustrating theory, nice to see to you tackle it.

[@EricSmyth4Christ]

It's brutal

[@cheechcypher]

My thing is, if God wants everyone to be saved but we can’t come to Him on our own, why wouldn’t He predestine everyone to come to Christ and be saved?

[@cheechcypher]

@@niels499 One of, if not the only reason, Jesus hasn’t come down yet is because he’s being patient and waiting for us Christians to help bring everyone to Christ. If He doesn’t want everyone to be saved than there would be no point in waiting. Also, if He is electing people what’s the point of existing on earth?

[@socalkook370]

Excellent question. This gets into the "two wills of God" idea. According to many calvinists, God has one will that desires one thing, but another that decrees something else. Apparently we are supposed to just accept this logical inconsistency, rather than question if God is a capricious entity with a personality disorder.

[@cheechcypher]

@@niels499 and if He didn’t want everyone to be saved that would be like Him making people just to go to hell.

[@cheechcypher]

@@socalkook370 I did not say that. God definitely does not have mood swings. I just feel that if He’s electing people and not electing others there’s no point in living on earth.

[@socalkook370]

@@cheechcypher Correct, God does not have mood swings. I'm telling you how calvinists respond to the verses that suggest that God wants all to be saved, while (according to Calvin) simultaneously not wanting them to be saved and refusing to save them. I'm not a calvinist, and this is one of the reasons why. If man has free will, it makes total sense that God is distraught that some won't turn to him. However, if determinism is true, it is illogical that God could possibly be upset at something that he decreed. It's more likely that you could wrap your own Christmas present and then be surprised when you open it.

[@believein1]

Calvinism is wholly unbiblical. Anyone who studies the Bible for themselves in context without wearing Calvinist lenses while doing so can see this easily.

[@davidw2417]

Creating conscious creatures just to eventually torture them forever seems pretty evil to me tbh. Yes, the argument is that we cannot truly understand how great of a sin it is that Adam ate the apple and that we can't hope to understand God's cosmic justice - but that strikes me as deeply unfair and evil still. We kill ants or other insects because they annoy us - but we don't torture ants by slowly ripping their legs off one by one, as that is obviously cruel and evil. Extend that to God damning lesser creatures to an eternity of torture - how is that fair, just because we are incapable of understanding why it's happening to us? Why would God create souls only to eternally condemn them to torture forever? What about a baby living with an uncontacted Amazon tribe that dies during childbirth - torturing a baby forever for something it couldn't possibly help to know or comprehend strikes me as supremely evil, and I can't reconcile a way around that. What are your thoughts on this?

[@attila4585]

You are right, if God does exist, than He is either not infinitely just and condemns people to hell forever (which I do not believe) or He is infinitely just and reconciles and saves all. Claiming otherwise is denying the victory of Jesus over death

[@tobiasbourne9073]

​@attila4585 Yeah predestination seems illogical considering what Christ did for us

[@GenZRemnant9748]

Ignoring predestination and Calvinism for a minute. Who are you a sinner to question God. The god of all that was, is and is to come God has sole authority to determine what is moral and immoral. If he says hell is a moral punishment than it is. The truth is that when you put your morality above Gods you rebel against him.

[@attila4585]

@@GenZRemnant9748And who are you to claim to understand God, and limit his mercy?

[@davidw2417]

@@GenZRemnant9748 would you tell that to the baby in hell?

[@finalbossoftheinternet6002]

I was predestined to think Calvinism is false and the Roman Catholic Church is the one true Church

[@leaderofthebunch-deadbeat7716]

Same

[@gwynn2165]

I’m not Catholic but I love this comment. If we have no free will in our salvation then how are we to be held accountable for our actions?

[@ryanchain9746]

instead you should’ve believed both were false lmao

[@gwynn2165]

@@ryanchain9746 Ay man is ur pfp Ross Geller

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

kinda wondering if the same is true, myself. I like a lot of things Catholics have to say, but I'm still too weirded out by the Mary stuff and the saints, and I think I belive in OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved).

[@jhoughjr1]

I'd say yes it is unfair to deprive us of the will god obviously gave us to use. It literally breaks all my theology to deny free will.

[@iamjohnfarlow]

Completely agree, why even bother being a Christian if it’s already been decided you will or won’t be saved?

[@MAMoreno]

In Christian theology, it was Adam who deprived us of the will, not God. The issue rather is that the promise of salvation is dependent upon the will being freed to respond. If it's a real offer, then humans must receive the grace to be able to accept that offer.

[@jaxonspage]

@@iamjohnfarlow God uses human choices to enact his will (like evangelism) and he's called us to do so. God promises all who call on the name of Christ will be saved but God's grace directs our still existent wills to do so

[@rhys09876]

It is possible that your theology(and mine) could be wrong, no?

[@rhys09876]

@@iamjohnfarlowIf you were saved you would be a Christian, if you were not saved you wouldn’t be one.

[@andreasm5770]

"It's not unfair because some people get what they deserve and some people get better than they deserve." Do you really not see the problem here?

[@yeetusvanitas9800]

I don’t think that’s what he’s saying. 9:37 he says the part about fair and better than fair, and in the next sentence he says that he supposes you can call it unfair, but certainly not unjust. The problem here is using different definitions of what constitutes “fair”. Zoomer’s argument is that we don’t actually *want* things to be fair, because if things were fair then we would all lose out because nobody deserves salvation. Unfair, maybe, but certainly not unjust. I think everyone, including Zoomer, should be more clear about fair vs just.

[@andreasm5770]

@@yeetusvanitas9800 10 people are charged with murder. They get sentenced to life imprisonment. But the judge is merciful and decides that 3 of them can be set free - not of any merit of their own, but simply because he chooses those 3. The other 7 complain to him, saying it's unfair: the 3 that were set free are no less guilty than the 7 in jail. But the judge tells them that they have no right to complain because "they got what they deserved." But the prisoners are right because, by making this decision, the judge is creating a precedent that murderers can be freed. So it's inconsistent to apply it to those 3 but not to all 10 - thus it is unfair. Because justice is not really just if the judge actively discriminates without any known criteria: the 7 couldn't have done anything to get what the 3 got, and the 3 didn't do anything to earn the freedom they got. There is a double standard; therefore, this is unfair - or unjust, if you will (same thing). "Fair" and "just" are synonyms, so there's no substance to him using these words distinctly if he doesn't define what the distinction is.

[@danilomenoli]

So you say God is unjust because before Jacob and Esau were born, God decided He was going to bless Jacob and his descendancy and not be with Esau's descendancy, before both were able to do good or bad deeds, and Jacob did a lot of bad deeds and still was blessed by the Lord.

[@gustavusadolphus4344]

​@@danilomenoliEsau despised his birthright. Are you forgetting that part of the story?

[@cheekylemon9441]

I think the music you composed and put in your videos is very beautiful, I hope you keep including it!

[@legodavid9260]

My main problem with Calvisim is that while some verses in the Bible seem to teach "Predestination" on the surface, the vast majority of the Bibical narrative clearly shows that free will post-Adam clearly still exists. And not only that, but the idea of Predestination creates a tone of implications that are directly debunked by the Bible itself. If Predestination is true, then by definition, God doesn't love everyone, and by his own choice doesn't want everyone to be saved. This directly contradicts a a couple of verses that clearly teach the opposite: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." - John 3:16 "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." - 2 Peter 3:9 "Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?" Ezekiel 18:23 "This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:3‭-‬4 "For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live.” Ezekiel 18:32 "For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people." Titus 2:11 "Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?" Ezekiel 33:11 In light of all those verses, then I think we can safely conclude that Predestination is not true. When the Bible talks about "Election" it actually talks about is election of certain people as representatives of the truth of God. Not election for salvation.

[@Jando859_]

YESSS!!! Someone that finally understands me!!!!! We have the same issue with Calvinism.

[@ogloc6308]

I agree with a lot of your points but to conclude that “predestination is not true” is not a viable conclusion. Predestination is in the bible several times whether you like it or not. Predestination is not really up for debate imo, its how we’re predestined that is the question. Most arguments come down to either “God predestines us based on His foreknowledge of our choice to believe” or “God predestines us according to His will alone and He has predetermined who will believe and who won’t”.

[@ICantThinkOfAFunnyHandle]

Predestination doesn't mean that there are humans God doesn't love so much as there are humans who reject God's love. For predestination itself it's a natural logical conclusion that God (who is all-knowing and isn't constrained by time) would know the choices that we are eventually going to make. Humans have free will in the moment sure, but God already knows what you're going to choose.

[@improbablepebble8549]

​​@@ICantThinkOfAFunnyHandle That sounds like it's just foreknowledge instead of predestination

[@ICantThinkOfAFunnyHandle]

@@improbablepebble8549Foreknowledge implies that God is unable to affect the events of the future. This would mean that God is not omnipotent, which is heresy because it contradicts the bible

[@harrygarris6921]

The problem with Calvinism is you have to somehow affirm God’s will as the sole determinant in the fate of men, but you can’t go all the way and accept strict determinism to be true. Because if determinism is true then God causes evil and you quickly fall into heresy. All I can say for people who are willing to go through the mental gymnastics it takes to affirm calvinism while rejecting determinism is… good luck man. I haven’t heard a logically sound argument for that particular theological system yet and I’ve listened to a whole lot of them.

[@Justin-yn5py]

Bingo, Calvinism logically makes God the author of evil. Adam could not have chosen to not eat the apple

[@iamjohnfarlow]

If it’s already been decided where I’ll go when I die and there is nothing I can do to change it shouldn’t I just live my life however I want. After all if I’m going to Heaven no matter what I do, I’ll just come to Christ on my deathbed and be forgiven because I’m part of the elect. If I’m going to Hell I might as well enjoy the temporary pleasures in this life seen as the most merciful being in existence only died for the sins of some people and not all people.

[@edim108]

Part of the argument is that if you are elect, one in Christ and all that you wouldn't want to sin in the first place bc no one who accepts the truth would want to intentionally stray from it. It's the opposite of "salvation through works", sort of "works from salvation" if you will.

[@iamjohnfarlow]

@@edim108 There are saved people in the Bible who did knowingly and willingly sin and even ones who intentionally stray from the truth, so that’s not a good explanation, for me at least. I like what you said about works from salvation however, more Christians ought to understand that “salvation through works” being false doesn’t mean there aren’t works.

[@willis6234]

It has helped me quite a bit to think of Calvinism along narrative lines, in so far as if you picture any fictional character that you've ever read, that character simultaneously executes his will and the authors will. It's not at all a violation of a written character to be written, because he cannot exist any other way! Furthermore, a good author understands the character he is attempting to write, and the narrative purpose of said character. Therefore, everything that the author writes, is within the nature of the character, and everything the character thinks, wants, or does has been written by the author.

[@samueldimmock694]

Yeah, I've never really seen the disagreement between free will and predestination, and this is a very good way of explaining why.

[@franciscolucasdesouza8359]

you made this even worse. characters, even analogously, are deprived of any will at all. you can´t borrow moral similarities between real persons and fictional ones precisely because of that .

[@willis6234]

@@franciscolucasdesouza8359 Look, all I'm saying is you choose according to your choices, but you don't get to choose your choices. If you want to attribute any objective meaning to existence at all, then someone is giving you those choices as well as your faculties for choosing. Otherwise, it boils down to what you subjectively make of it, and nobody is wrong or right for whatever they decide. In essence, either either all creation has designed purpose, or it doesn't. There isn't some middle ground where God can create something that then supercedes his ability to affect it. If he did, that thing is now God.

[@franciscolucasdesouza8359]

@@willis6234 I have to disagree with you. One can make his own choices freely and still be judged by some moral standard. If you freely choose to act one way, you as free moral agent will be judged by those actions according to christian moral standards. God creates the existence in some way that both moral stardards and genuinely moral choises that are free can exist at the same time.

[@pomelo9518]

If you've played OneShot or Deltarune, the OP's idea of simultaneous free will and predestination is actually permissible!

[@Lemon-pf3pm]

For me, determinism in Christianity is merely testimony to not having the ability to unify verses that speak of a decision and verses that speak of a foreknowledge without presenting one as an illusion under the other. It is always necessary to choose the simplest that is compatible with all the facts. When God speaks of regret, one knows that the immutability of God consists of having a fixed character (spoken within time), and merely performing a single spontaneous act in which all other behaviors are included (spoken outside of time). One does not conclude that God would not regret something in reality, not that when He speaks of an emotion He means something else, but that the regret does not represent a change in His person and He already knew about it when He created man (and He created us anyway). A reasonable being does something that is good/rational to do even if it knows that it has to go through negative emotions because of it one day. God knew that even if He sees people in pain and (thus) regrets making them in a moment, in the end it was worth it. Love is wanting the best for the object of love. To see its happiness as one's own and to see its suffering as one's own. If God does not save some He could save, love is not His dominant motive. It stays either unfair or unloving, even if He in some sense has all right to do so. If He has the ability to not do so, He does not what would be loving. There must be metaphysical rules for it, which one can bring in via free will, but hard determinism does not come around it. If God a) programmed who gets saved and who not, b) had full control who to create and how many people to create and c) is unbound by metaphysical laws (laws of His own nature/laws that are just a product of what and how He is) such as having to give people free will, He, in fact, would not be a loving God. It's not that we all sinned in Adam and Eve but that a mechanical reaction of this first sin was the corruption of all of nature. We are born in an unfair world where we can become sick and where we are born removed from God because of this mechanical reaction of sin, something He could not remove without breaking order and creating chaos (something impossible?) God is the loving and fair one who still tries to reach us.

[@socalkook370]

Great explanation. Determinism really brings into question whether the wicked are actually responsible for their sins. Romans 1:20 says man is without excuse, but if God designed a person to be unable to accept the gospel, that's not just an excuse, that's a hard reason.

[@christopherponsford8385]

This was well composed. It really depends on which Calvinists you’re talking to, ultimately. Some of them are hard-line theological determinists, but some are compatibilists. To be fair, I think that Calvinism has its logical conclusion towards iron-clad determinism, and thus I find the theological determinist Calvinists to be the most intellectually honest and consistent. Anything remotely compatibilist regarding free-will and Gods sovereignty is just so close to the original Catholic position of predestination as to be effectively a difference in mere semantics alone, and begs the question as to what the controversy even is: namely, to retain as much theologically as can be maintained with Church fathers like Augustine and Aquinas, while theologically circumventing the authority of the capital C Church. Calvinsim can be easily understood from my pov to be an exercise in theological gerrymandering.

[@ChristianityExplained]

What did I just walked into? The other day, I watched a video of yours that gives each denomination a grade tier. I'm Charismatic and loved your presentation! Well done! Thought I found another Christian KZbinr. Today, I saw the nicely done thumbnail and thought, "What is this? Minecraft and Christianity???" I started the video and then saw the channel name. Very talented. Keep up the good work. Who says learning can't be fun? :0😂

[@CharlesFromHenryTheStickman]

9:13 Pink sheep spotted which has a 0.164% chance to spawn.

[@georgebotha6861]

Twas predestined

[@Albanian_crusader]

It was predestined to spawn

[@HarrisonLusk]

calvinism isn't unfair, it's unbiblical.

[@storba3860]

​@drakejuice9384 1) The atonement serves no purpose if God has already decided who will be saved and He did it before the world began. Nor does sharing the Gospel make any sense if conversion is incompatible with human will. 2) There are no Jewish scholars who believe in predestination and they have half the Bible. Surely the OT would have at least alluded to it and the closest we get is "The Lord hath made all things for Himself" which is from a book of poetry so predestination is a very poor exegesis of the text. 3) God has never regenerated people in the absence of someone sharing the Gospel. You have to hear it first ergo humans play a part in the salvation of themselves and others. 4) It turns God into a hypocrite. 5) "He is the atoning sacrifice. Not just for our (Christians) sins but for the sins of the whole world."

[@storba3860]

@drakejuice9384 Okay. I'll go point by point. Total Depravity: "God saw what He had made and saw that it was good." "Love your neighbor AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF." "God made man in His own image." "Never grow tired of doing good." "Faith without works is dead." Unconditional Election: "Not all who cry out to me 'Lord, Lord!' will enter into the Kingdom." "False teachers will sell out the master who bought them." "Many are called but few are chosen." Limited Atonement: First you would have to actually prove this point since even Augustinian predestination doesn't accept this point. Augustine rejected PSA altogether and opted for moral influence (Jesus died to prove His teachings true and only by following His example can we be saved) but putting that aside there are countless verses that say the atonement was universal but only can be guaranteed for those who believe. For the nonbeliever it's basically a crapshoot. Irresistible Grace: We don't even need a Bible if God does all the work. We'd just be programmed to know what He wants. Perseverance of the Saints: "Sort out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Plus the fact Paul's letters were aimed at those who already believe (i.e: the elect).

[@lordjared2572]

⁠@@storba3860thank you for the sound arguments, the elemental spirits of the world, and the empty philosophy which one who submits to the teaching of the Word will by no means agree with

[@storba3860]

@@lordjared2572 Elemental spirits?

[@biggusdickus2691]

@@storba3860: [The atonement serves no purpose if God has already decided who will be saved and He did it before the world began. Nor does sharing the Gospel make any sense if conversion is incompatible with human will.] In his second letter to Timothy, Paul exclaimed “I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ…” (2 Timothy 2:10). When one correctly understands that God has not only elected certain individuals to salvation but ALSO has ordained the means of salvation-the preaching of the gospel (Romans 1:16; Romans 10:14-17)-it empowers the spreading of the gospel message and the call to evangelism. It overcomes the fear of failure when sharing the gospel and empowers people to remain faithful to the message in times of great persecution. They know that the power lies in the gospel message and God’s sovereign election, not in their own feeble presentation.

[@GenZRemnant9748]

THIS WAS A GOOD VIDEO! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK RZ!

[@jtraptor7776]

Angee comment lols

[@dutch_asocialite]

It's curious how Calvin says Calvinists shouldn't wonder (or worry) if they're elect, because that's very similar to fate's operation in Hirohiko Araki's stories. Essentially, all the villains in the story have a power that attempts to (or succeeds in) circumventing fate - from simply stopping time to temporarily removing the user from the effects of fate - often due to a desire to rise above the world and control their destinies, yet the heroes - even though they may know for certain that they will perish in their quest for justice - don't worry themselves about what's to come, as fate has repeatedly shown to favour the just. I'm not sure how to link this back to the video, but it's a neat thought.

[@pentiumdeusex-machina4645]

JoCa's Bizarre Theology: Predestination is Unbreakable

[@Robdavis1990]

This is a very underrated comment

[@LuisOrtiz-gt5cw]

bro related jojo to theology 💀

[@lanceuppercut_]

I keep seeing your comments

[@internetdinosaur8810]

Wait where did Calvin state that? I've yet to read that.

[@thedemon0843]

I don’t get how us Catholics are considered the self-hating guilt-ridden branch of Christianity whilst the Calvinists outright say we all deserve Hell no matter how good of a person we are.

[@peterubbels2385]

We just understand the severity of sin unlike the people who say salvation is a lottery (Calvin) or we can be as degenarete as we want (Luther)

[@reaganmorris7903]

Actually, that's a Catholic teaching too: "Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life." (Paragraph 1 of Section 2 of Article 2 of Chapter Three of Section One of Part Three of the Catechism of the Catholic church.)

[@thedemon0843]

@@reaganmorris7903 There is a difference between saying we deserve salvation and we deserve eternal torture. What we deserve is to cease to exist after death.

[@cptndec]

That’s the literal basics of all Christianity including Catholicism. Nobody is “good”, we’re all sinners and deserve hell.

[@unexpectediteminthebaggingarea]

Calvinism is unfair! Mr Knox is in there! Standing after the session! Plotting his confession!

[@Gingermaas]

Underrated comment right here.

[@jonathannerz1696]

I consider myself a 3-pointer, and I believe Calvinists are just as Christian as us Baptists, but I still regard limited atonement as absolute heresy.

[@adjustedbrass7551]

So you're a universalist then?

[@toddthacker8258]

​@@adjustedbrass7551Opposing limited atonement doesn't equal universalism. God offers his grace to all, but only those who come to him are saved.

[@adjustedbrass7551]

@@toddthacker8258 so it's.... limited

[@toddthacker8258]

@@adjustedbrass7551 No. Limited atonement means that God limits the population to which he offers atonement.

[@toddthacker8258]

@O2N_ God would be fully just in sending us all to hell. My issue is that justice is not God's only quality; he is also love. And the Calvinist approach (where God predestines the majority of his creatures to hell) doesn't really do justice to that aspect of God's character.

[@a.h.i267]

Ive really been enjoying your content. Thank you so much for starting this God Bless❤

[@Nathan-GB]

The best explanation of the doctrine of election I’ve ever heard is this: Imagine a wide open door, and above it there’s a sign in big bold letters that says “come in, and have your sins forgiven. Receive full pardon from the king!” Some people walk in, others do not. On the opposite side of the door, it says “Chosen from the foundation of the world”

[@Lemon-pf3pm]

So the king decided who got in and who not? It is Him in the case of Christianity who layed the foundation of the world after all.

[@goodkitty4976]

I see it as those who are called will be saved and those who aren't predestined never feel the urge to trust christ

[@harrygarris6921]

That’s not the Calvinist doctrine of election, that’s more like the Lutheran one. In Calvinism the door only appears for the elect, for the non elect there is no door to walk through.

[@BenjaminAnderson21]

@@harrygarris6921 This is false. Calvinists and Lutherans essentially believe the same thing about predestination, Lutherans just don't accept that it logically follows that people who aren't predestined to walk through the door are thus predestined not to.

[@BenjaminAnderson21]

@@harrygarris6921 Calvin absolutely believed that salvation is offered to all. Limited atonement makes it sound like some people will want to be saved but will be denied forgiveness because they aren't elect--but this is not what Calvin believed. According to Calvinists (actual Calvinists, not hyper-"Calvinists,") Jesus died for every single person who has a will to repent and turn to him, and didn't die for anyone who rejects him.

[@atticusbeachy3707]

Calvinists - "We oppose abortion, but not because they're killing innocents."

[@TheSwiftCreek2]

We oppose abortion because God is the giver of value. And He values human life. And He teaches (and commands) us to do the same. As we follow Him, His value system becomes our value system. Philippians 1:6 talks about God being faithful to complete the work He began in us.

[@Mic1904]

Actually yes, that is accurate. I've never remotely understood the idea of 'innocence' as a pro-life argument, as it doesn't work on any level

[@atticusbeachy3707]

@@Mic1904 Killing an innocent person seems worse than killing a totally depraved person. You disagree?

[@Mic1904]

​@@atticusbeachy3707 Yes, I absolutely disagree. I don't think that at all. Where does Scripture suggest it would be less worse to kill a totally depraved person? The killing/murder of a human being has never ever been, as far as I can see from Scripture, based in any way on what that person is like morally. Killing a scoudral is as sinful as killing a saint. If you can find a moral argument from Scripture that says otherwise, feel free to educate me, I'd be keen to hear more. (Note, that I'm talking about murdering a person - not the different moral question of whether it's permissible for the state to execute a person for a crime).

[@Chicky_Lumps]

I'm not Calvinist but this is a poor argument.

[@michaelkoch-q7y]

Love your comments and videos. You were however really struggling for words throughout this one. Maybe it's time for a rethink on Calvinism.

[@grant2707]

Can a calvinist explain how salvation isn't an illusion if we are predestined to have faith? If you're never in danger to go to hell then how can you ever be saved from a nonexistent danger?

[@ChristianEphraimson]

Yeah it doesn't make much sense but at least it acknowledges our sinfulness.

[@grant2707]

@@ChristianEphraimson The free will approach acknowledges this too? At least it removes God's involvement in human actions and blames the individual when they sin. Salvation without free will makes no sense, Salvation to those who willingly sin is the only logical approach. Also. Faith cannot be a work. Throughout the Bible these two concepts are opposed or complimented, but never equated.

[@danilomenoli]

So you don't love God with all your heart you are just afraid of being sent to hell, is that what are you saying? The Lord Himself said "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." but still you want to feel like you are co-responsible by your own redemption by praying the rosary, doing good deeds or whatever think you can do. Jesus Christ did you even listen to the video or you jumped directly to the comments to write this?

[@grant2707]

@@danilomenoli Look man, no need to be so aggressive. I'm actually rather on the fence on this issue so you have the opportunity to convince me. If we are totally depraved, then how is there such thing as grace? How can someone receive grace if they had no opportunity to do otherwise? How can God "forgive" is if we had no choice to do otherwise. I think the calvinist approach inadvertently gives God the blame for sin. Again, I can be wrong (i'm trying to understand the truth).

[@TheInvshika]

The trouble with predestination for me is, why would someone convert to Christianity if God has already chosen whether they’re elect?

[@LadyJadeicorn]

I really appreciate this video. I converted to Christianity in January of this year, got saved in February, and baptized in March. Since I converted, I’ve been going to the non-denominational church I went to as a kid. I love that church, but the way they speak on salvation has had me worried on and off for months that I’m not saved. The concept you spoke of about how you look at your baptism as an objective means of salvation has really helped clear my conscious. I also really like and appreciate the logical and philosophical way of looking at theology and scripture. You have planted a Calvinist seed in my mind 🌱 thanks for the video

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

thank you, God bless! Now, just become Presbyterian ;)

[@rooderoo12]

Great explanation again of a very difficult subject. I'm Dutch (Christian) Reformed and I never hear people talk about this stuff.

[@henriquegabrielwuchrynmart4865]

THE LAST WINDOW PATTERN WAS INVERTED and it hurts. But great video! You always discuss christian topics with grace and respect, i am loving your channel!

[@kingarth0r]

IM NOT MAD I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW KEEP UP WITH THE GOOD CONTENT

[@CeltickenderPlayz]

YOOOOO

[@joaovitormatos8147]

Guy says we should all be burning in hell and follows with "that's the beauty of calvinism"

[@Rambling-Thomas]

The Bible does say we have all sinned, no one is righteous, no not one. Are you implying someone does not need Jesus and God's grace to be saved?

[@Testimony_Of_JTF]

@@Rambling-Thomas What about Enoch? He was sent to heaven before Christ's sacrifice.

[@Rambling-Thomas]

@Testimony_Of_JTF So you're saying Jesus did not have to die on the cross to save us? Was his sacrifice unnecessary? Surely not. What is your view on what happened to all other people who died before the cross event?

[@Testimony_Of_JTF]

@@Rambling-Thomas It was necessary for us who have sinned but if God just abducted someone they should be good. The Harrowing of hell happened and all, so yeah. Enoch took place millenia before Christ went to hell so...

[@Rambling-Thomas]

@Testimony_Of_JTF Enoch is a very interesting anomaly I will admit, I'll have to do some reading on him and see what others thought about him. Enoch was incredibly early in salvation history, the law wasn't even given at that point.

[@CliffCardi]

Virgin Calvin vs Chad Luther

[@ReidMerrill]

Predestination is incompatible with the idea of salvation by faith alone.

[@SavingSoulsMinistries]

Proverbs 16:4 “The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.”

[@justinevan931]

Man I love you redeemed zoomer. I’m an 18 year old Christian from Florida. You’re an inspiration my man, praise Jesus Christ . You’re advice is so good. I need to stop looking to myself and start looking to the Savior and the promises of God. Thank you🙂

[@GAF2234]

When you realise its all man made fairytale, what a waste of time

[@evan7391]

​@@GAF2234 your ignorance of a language and presuppositions that you cannot understand doesn't make a worldview "a man made fairytale".

[@GAF2234]

@@evan7391 Man made god, that's what I'm pointing idiot

[@Jando859_]

Some Calvinists and reformers say if a true believer deletes themselves, they will be saved. Because of predestination. This is SCARY.

[@ihiohoh2708]

First off, they aren't saved because they "deleted," but because they believed. Second, that is murder. Murder does not forfeit your salvation. If you believe that then I suppose you think King David went to Hell. So no that is not scary. Believing is what gives us righteousness, not our actions. _And [Abraham] believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness._ *Genesis 15:6*

[@TheOtherCaleb]

You’re ignoring Calvinism’s embrace of determinism. That’s the real point of contention. What humanity deserves because of sin is wholly irrelevant if God Himself is the sole antecedent cause of every human sin. It is outside of a perfect being’s nature to judge, punish, or reward people based on things that they cannot control. This is an obvious truth. It’s also why things like racism and sexism are wrong.

[@pipinfresh]

This is not Calvinism. Historic Calvinism is not deterministic and the historic Calvinist creeds and confessions are not determinist, and personally I don't believe Calvin neas determinist himself. Calvinism teaches that people have a will and free agency but that will has been corrupted by sin and is in bondage to sin. Therefore we are unable to save ourselves. Calvinism states that God is not the author of sin and all humans are morally responsible for their our sin. The Westminster Confession says this, as follows: God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass, (Eph 1:11; Rom 11:33; Hbr 6:17; Rom 9:15; Rom 9:18): yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, (Jam 1:13; Jam 1:17; 1Jo 1:5); nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established, (Act 2:23; Mat 17:12; Act 4:27-28; Jhn 19:11; Pro 16:33). A lot of people completely misunderstand Calvinism as complete and total determination but that's not the case. Sure they are some hyper Calvinists that believe that but they are not in line with what Calvin taught and believe or with historic Calvinism.

[@TheOtherCaleb]

@@pipinfresh Calvin was in fact a determinist. “First, the eternal predestination of God, by which before the fall of Adam He decreed what should take place concerning the whole human race and every individual, was fixed and determined.” -John Calvin, Concerning the Eternal Predestination of God, p.121

[@pipinfresh]

@@TheOtherCaleb I think you are confusing determinism with fatalism which is what most people do, when most people say determinism they actually mean fatalism. That's what I was arguing against in my response. It's important to understand what words mean and why they are used. Calvin didn't mean determinism in the same way it's commonly understood by many today. Determinism means causality. God's causality and His divine decree preordains all things but that doesn't remove free agency and moral responsibility from all humans. God creating the world was determinism because it comes from the decree of God and He is the causality of the creation, therefore creation is determinist in nature. Fatalism is where everything is 100% inevitably fixed with zero deviation. Look at it this way. God's sovereignty over all of creation is 100% deterministic yet our creaturely will is not 100% fatalistic. They are compatible with each other.

[@TheOtherCaleb]

@@pipinfresh If God has determined all things, without even a single rouge molecule, then there, by definition, cannot be any form of deviation from such determinations in reality…. Hence fatalism (under your working definition)

[@iltonnotattico6231]

​@@pipinfresh if you are not responsible for trying your best to follows God's commandments and not sin because God chose you to do that, then you cannot be held responsible for living a life purely of sin and denying God because you had no other choice

[@cheekylemon9441]

Not a wierd channel, a great channel!

[@davidfitzpatrick6535]

See TBH I feel like Calvinists (and Redeemed Zoomer please forgive me for this) dont focus on the love of God and how by grace God saves us because he loves us not because we're destined to "fill a Christian quota" if u will. And because God loves us he gives us a choice to accept or rejecct him because if he didn't he wouldnt be a loving God. Again I grew up in the Free Methodist tradition and still consider myself a Methodist theologically speaking so I do believe that humanity has free will.

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

I have respect for Methodists and their Arminian tradition. I don't consider Calvinism vs Arminianism an issue of orthodoxy vs heresy

[@davidfitzpatrick6535]

@@redeemedzoomer6053 fair enough. I actually have a couple friends that are calvinists and trust me we love to debate free will vs "God's will" if u will.

[@War_maN333]

YOUR LATIN COULD SEE SOME IMPROVEMENT

[@timboslice980]

I was a calvinist for over 10 years. I held on as long as I could but the points just fail when you see them against scripture. The funniest video on YT is Idol killer: paul washer totally depraved babies. I haven't laughed like that in a long time!

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

Where you a real Calvinist (Presbyterian) or just a Reformed Baptist lol

[@timboslice980]

@redeemedzoomer6053 Yeah went to presby church. It's the only calvinist church in my county. However I will say they never really preached on the 5 points besides unconditional election and irresistible grace. They're focus was preaching the gospel in hopes that Christ's sheep would hear the shepherds call. I did listen to reformed baptists though since they're all over the net. I know you don't see them as truly calvinist and I somewhat agree.... I know they came from baptists not Dutch reformed or Presbyterian. I had no idea that Calvin believed in some of the Marian doctrines until after I left that theology.... if I had known I may have come out of it faster. I know that sounds a little contradictory as a catholic but now I don't believe in sola scriptura but then I did. I probably would've questioned Calvin's commitment to SS. I agree with you that presbys are the nerds of the faith.... reformed pub on FB is awesome! I had a good friend that brought me to his church. I was shocked at how little they got into theology though. Not all presbys are nerds I guess, there was one guy named Jerry who was pretty smart. He had some disagreement with the pastor and left the church. He doesn't go to any church now but still shares calvinist videos online. Anyway I love your videos. I watch them all!

[@peterubbels2385]

​@@redeemedzoomer6053 'real calvinist" your love for the presbytarian church is borderline idolatry haha Love your videos, and I want to thank you since some explanatory videos of you helped me come to faith. (I am a Catholic catechumen) This may sound strange given the context above but I truelly think you are doing the Lords work with what you are doing and that if you keep serving his will, you will achieve great things. Maybe after the reconquista bring Protestantism in communion with rome? No? It was worth a try

[@jacksonkuzmic]

@@peterubbels2385as a catholic I approve this message

[@AmillennialMillenial]

If you listen to Paul washer enough, basically every couple years you’ll realize that you weren’t really saved before. I don’t know if he does all the time, but I’ve heard him address the “young people” about how they need to make sure they’re regenerate, while also commending the older people because they are probably ready to die for Christ. As if American boomers have had to cling to faith through intense persecution.

[@chaditionalist5698]

It doesn't sit right with me that an infinitely merciful God can offer His salvation to any less than every single human, or that a God of infinite love who wants the best for us would want anyone to go to hell "just because" I also think that Calvinism cheapens the relationship between God and those who are saved - what does it mean to have a relationship with God and love Him if we're incapable of doing anything different? However interesting video as always, God bless you brother

[@Athan_In_Christ]

He does because we don't even deserve the salvation. We are His creation, meaning realistically he could do whatever he wanted with us and it would be righteous because we are fully his property. It is by His Grace that we can be saved and by His Justice that we are condemned. Also, the fact that we can actually love God is only because of Him. You could say that's unfair because he's forcing us to love Him but would it be unfair for someone to force someone out of a burning house because that's their own will?

[@sonicgeeksquad4g106]

​@@Athan_In_Christ We all deserve hell. God providing salvation to a minority is loving, but wouldn't it be even more loving to provide salvation to all of His image-bearers?

[@Athan_In_Christ]

@@sonicgeeksquad4g106 Because the remaining of us going to Hell show him being Just. He's loving and merciful in that he saves at all but also Just in that he condemns the remaining. And if you are wondering, "well why does he destroy this person and not this person" remember Romans 9 21 tells us the Potter has the right to "save" some of his pots and destroy the others as he pleases. Or, use some for special purposes and others for common purposes, as stated in the verse

[@sonicgeeksquad4g106]

@@Athan_In_Christ So the cross wasn’t a good enough expression of God’s justice? God does have the right to save whomever He pleases. It is His will to save all who put their faith in Christ. It still would technically be more loving to provide salvation to all, especially considering God desires all to be saved.

[@briandiehl9257]

@@sonicgeeksquad4g106 "It still would technically be more loving to provide salvation to all, especially considering God desires all to be saved." I think that is a pretty compelling reason to believe he does

[@HorseloverFat1984]

I've read a great Calvinist nursery rhyme somewhere a few days ago: "Jesus loves me, this I know As for you, debatable. If you're elect, He loves you still, but if you're not, He never will!"

[@Xairos84]

😂

[@filiplisowski5619]

Roman Catholic here, thanks for the video! I was wondering, how does the Calvinist view of predestination deal with 1Tm 2, 4? God bless!

[@TheVoiceOfTruth.]

Good point but how can you do with Romans 9: 22 literally saying if God wanted to he could make a vessel/human prepared for his wrath

[@cooperstephens147]

As an evangelical Southern Baptist, I still don’t understand how anyone can claim that Baptism is necessary for salvation. If that were true, then what about the thief on the cross, who Christ, Himself, says will be with Him in paradise. It also fails to account for deathbed conversions. If someone came to Christ before their death and as such were unable to be Baptized, they would go to Hell if this teaching about Baptism was true. Furthermore, claiming that the act of Baptism confers the promise of salvation on you would seem to contradict salvation by faith *ALONE* because you’ve now added works. Is Baptism necessary for obedience? Yes. Is it necessary for salvation? It can’t be.

[@mccoyyoung3643]

As a non-Calvinist I think RC Sproul did a really great job explaining how Calvinism is not unfair in his What is Reformed Theology lectures. I wish people on my side would stop using that objection. We should just use Scripture to make our point. Good stuff!

[@TheOtherCaleb]

The reason why Calvinism is unfair is because of its determinism. What humanity deserves because of sin is wholly irrelevant if God Himself was the sole antecedent cause of every human sin. It is outside of a perfect being’s nature to judge, punish, or reward based on things that people cannot control. This is an obvious truth. It’s also why things like racism and sexism are wrong.

[@robertallan8035]

@@TheOtherCaleb

[@BenjaminAnderson21]

@@TheOtherCaleb God doesn't cause sin. It happens by his allowance and his providential will, yes, but that's not the same as him "forcing people to sin." Providence isn't something that exists within the universe. It is above it and apart from it. The fact that people can't control who they are is irrelevant to whether or not they are responsible for their actions. I can't control what desires and circumstances lead to my choices, but that doesn't make me a mindless robot. I still have moral agency and moral responsibility.

[@Lemon-pf3pm]

​@@BenjaminAnderson21It's not about moral responsibility. If God a) programmed who gets saved and who not, b) had full control who to create and how many people to create and c) is unbound by metaphysical laws (laws of His own nature/laws that are just a product of what and how He is) such as having to give people free will, He, in fact, would not be a loving God. He would really design some people to go to Hell, which is not the case with every other Christian understanding of God. That Gods design who will sin and who not comes from another dimension is really not important, it is still His design which leads us, in the end, to Him or not to Him. Input and output: His decision is the cause of who gets to hell and not our own. We just play our part in His show, a show written so some get the bad ending. Our own will is an illusion preset by His decision.

[@BenjaminAnderson21]

@@Lemon-pf3pm God does not program anyone to reject him. They choose to reject him. Calvin affirms this, and most people who believe in predestination do as well.

[@X_mano]

Who else wait for the verses he quote to appear on the screen. I don't think it is intentional thou, inciting video!!!

[@deion312]

Anybody else a Leighton flowers fan and a redeemed Zoomer fan?

[@JuanmaB24]

I thought I was the only one😅

[@eclipsesonic]

Same here! I love the content that Redeemed Zoomer has done and his zeal for the Bible, Theology and Church History (which I'm really into too), but I'm in much more agreement with Leighton Flowers view of free will and salvation than I am with the Calvinist side.

[@MAMoreno]

Fifth century Christian: "Anybody else a Pelagius fan and an Augustine fan?"

[@endygonewild2899]

I am too

[@billylindsey3678]

Yep me too. Fan of both

[@au8363]

Why doesn’t God give everyone irresistible Grace

[@Dave_OGG]

Why did He make people knowing they would reject Him?

[@joelrobertsonmusic]

I vote that Zoomer and Kyle make a podcast together where they just discuss these topics. I would love that. And so would KZbin.

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

we are indeed doing that. I've spoken to Kyle

[@joelrobertsonmusic]

@@redeemedzoomer6053 letsss goo

[@DeformedTheology]

@@redeemedzoomer6053 Very good!

[@Nathan-GB]

Nah. God doesn’t owe salvation to anyone. If even one person was saved, it would be an unbelievably profound act of grace. The fact that there are potentially billions (or trillions, who knows) of people throughout history who are God’s elect shows the extent of the remarkable and wonderful grace of our God. Praise the Lord!

[@gideonwiley8961]

I would actually disagree. While he doesn’t “owe” in a legal sense, aince we cannot exchange anything for his good will, we are his children, and all parents have special duties towards their children. Because he is all powerful, he can accomplish these, and because he is all good, he is the best parent, creator, and lord. There is no reason why all will not be saved.

[@Athan_In_Christ]

@@gideonwiley8961 Romans 9:21 "The potter can make anything he wants to make. He can use the same clay to make one thing for special use and another thing for daily use." He has no special duties or things he has to do for us. It is by His Grace we are saved and his Justice that we are condemned

[@gideonwiley8961]

@@Athan_In_Christ so a creator has no responsibilities to his creation? If the argument is “God is powerful enough to do anything he wants with us,” then I agree. But that doesn’t make it right for him to neglect the salvation of his creation if he can save them.

[@hilohilo9539]

@@gideonwiley8961 Are you a universalist?

[@gideonwiley8961]

@@hilohilo9539 honestly I’m not sure, but at the very least I’m a hopeful universalist. I really hope all will be redeemed, and I don’t think it’s outside Gods ability to do so.

[@TheOtherCaleb]

All Christians believe in predestination. Calvinism just includes a certain take on Augustine’s take on predestination.

[@TheSwiftCreek2]

Actually, I've know a lot of them that don't. The good thing is we don't have to have all of our theology be right for God to accept us. That's especially fortunate for those of us who think we have it more right than everyone else.

[@ebeleingram8048]

You're wrong. All Christians believes God knows the future. Only Calvanist are arrogant enough to believe there is no free will and God only chooses certain people to believe the Bible. It completely undermines the necessity for doing good in the world which something he's adamant about.

[@TheOtherCaleb]

@@ebeleingram8048 Predestination is in the Bible my friend. I’m not a Calvinist mind you.

[@AllYourBaseAreBelongToU5]

As R.C. Sproul says in “Chosen By God”-I’m summarizing-“Some receive justice. Some receive mercy. But no one receives injustice.”

[@thecossackcrusaderofholybr8448]

They both commit sin yet one group gets punished the other doesn't. Its like God having favorites.

[@AllYourBaseAreBelongToU5]

@@thecossackcrusaderofholybr8448 One is punished for their sin. Jesus is punished for the others’ sin. Justice is served in both cases. To quote the Christian rapper Flame: “Seek him (Jesus) now, you can know him as savior. Seek him later, you’ll know him as judge.”

[@yunaru3643]

​@@AllYourBaseAreBelongToU5imagine being a baby that is predestined to go to hell

[@AllYourBaseAreBelongToU5]

@@yunaru3643 There’s no guarantee that babies who die go to hell. For all we know, God could save all babies who die. Romans 9:14-15 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

[@yunaru3643]

@@AllYourBaseAreBelongToU5 I thought Calvinists believe in limited atonement? If all babies are saved, even without baptism, it's not very limited, is it?

[@mastermousemice6940]

You may not be committing a Christian heresy with your Protestantism, but you are certainly committing a Minecraft heresy by allowing those random floating blocks to remain.

[@gothwrangler8097]

Thank you for making these videos. They have really helped me understand other dominations of Christianity. I'm non domominal, but that's because idk where i fall within the dominations

[@ChristianEphraimson]

What're your thoughts on philosopher/ theologian Soren Kierkegaard?

[@tomcaldwell5750]

Thank you this enjoyable video!

[@XxZekeKnightxX]

I feel like you responded to my comment about Calvinism earlier, even if not directly. Fully explained, the predestination bit doesn't sound as anxiety-inducing or as random as it appears at first. It both makes sense and seems biblical up to a point. Mostly agree. The point where I find fault is the circular logic of if a person wants to be saved, wants Christ, then that person was already elect to begin with. Especially since we find a number of times during Christ's earthly ministry where the faith of a person shifted the situation, faith moves the heart of God. I think of Mary having Jesus turn water into wine, even when Jesus stated that it wasn't His time yet to perform miracles. But He obeyed His mother. There was also the woman with the issue of blood, who had the faith to reach out to touch the end of His garment and was healed, and Jesus did not expect it. "Who touched me?" "I perceived power flowing from me." I do agree, we cannot come to Christ on our own and we all deserve damnation, which is what the Cross is for. Christ dying on the Cross made the way for us to come to Him, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man can come before the Father except through Me." However, to reject the Cross, which I believe 2 Corinthians talks about this, means that there is nothing stopping a person from being damned, it's the Cross or hell. Hint: choose the Cross. This might come down to a matter of semantics. Funny enough, since I was raised in church and dedicated as a baby, I legit thought that I was a Christian from birth, but I was told that was not the case and had to "get saved" at 11, and got baptized not long afterward. (This was at a Church of God of Prophecy I grew up with) People have this idea of getting baptized more than once when "rededicating their faith", but I never really understood or agreed with that. I always had the belief that one only needs to be baptized once, it's totally unnecessary to have it done multiple times. I don't have a "salvation story" because of the fact that I was raised in church, and have always disliked the pressure to have one coming from many circles. It really undervalues raising one's children in church in my humble opinion, when raising them in church is exactly what we should be doing. It's not about who has the better testimony, it's about glorifying God and reaching out to the lost. I don't know if I sound Baptist or something, but the church my family and I now go to is a church that split off from Assemblies of God, and we're a very unique bunch.

[@bignoob1790]

God choosing to save people while alowing other's to damn themselves is a possible position i can take based on scripture God creating people knowing who would come to faith and who wouldn't is another Im happy to accept the mystery of how predestination and freewill work together Limited attonment not so much Too many savior of the world passages for me to overlook

[@litigioussociety4249]

Your version of God would be unjust, unless he's not omnipotent. God desires all people to be saved, and come to the knowledge of truth. If the determining factor for whether someone comes to call upon the Lord to be saved is God, and God has the ability to make everyone do that, but chooses some people not to come to him, then that is unjust. It's akin to a father giving an inheritance to his children, but only if they have a special ticket, and the father only gives some of his kids that ticket, but has infinite tickets to give. It makes no sense to distribute the inheritance, but not the means of redeeming the inheritance. Maybe you or other Calvinists believe there is something greater than God that determines who he saves, which certainly does not seem biblical, unless that's your interpretation of Wisdom.

[@TheSwiftCreek2]

You could tell God that. Not advised. Man's philosophy will never beat God's Word. His Word remains forever. As long as we think we're competent to judge God we will fail.

[@litigioussociety4249]

@@TheSwiftCreek2 I have faith in God based on what he's done and said. Most people would say it was inspired when he wrote, God desires all people to be saved. I haven't heard anyone claim that's not inspired. I think it's pretty clear that the bible says you must trust in God (have faith,) call upon him, and endure to the end to be saved. The Calvinsist view would interpret that as God will cause you to trust in him, he will cause you to call on him, and some Calvinists would say once you do that you are guaranteed to be saved. I think it's just a complete rejection of the Parable of the Sower where there's no indication that God makes one fertile soil, or God makes the seed grow.

[@SerendipitousProvidence]

​@@litigioussociety4249 Well put. Not to mention God seems double-minded and schizophrenic on top of being unfair. It's like God is somehow mad and angry at people for what they are Intrinsically unable to do; accept Christ's grace. It's not too different and strange from me beating the living daylights out of my, suppose, deaf dog for not hearkening unto my verbal commands, despite knowing its condition, and in spite of having the ability to heal its deafness and make it obey me.

[@3BadBostons]

Young man, you're too smart to keep after these traditions of men. Calvin indeed did discover some Truths that had been lost to.....um, tradition. Look, I am not mad, I think you're a genius. That being said, reformed theology misses several key points and you are one of the few that should be able to discover for yourself. Memorize Romans and ask the Lord to give you more Truth and be faithful to what He gives you because people will be haters, especially those in mainstream churchianity. Seriously, it took me three years to memorize Romans while not neglecting the rest of scripture, and in nearly 5 decades of walking with Jesus I learned more from Romans by the Holy Spirit than I learned in 4 decades of serious study and just walking the walk. I am praying for you, the church needs minds like yours that will go against tradition. Grace and peace to you

[@Testimony_Of_JTF]

How do people unironically believe this

[@Testimony_Of_JTF]

ALSO NO I'M NOT MAD

[@briandiehl9257]

I don't know, but the comments are just going off on him

[@electronic9194]

Hey man wanna just say thanks for explaining predestination, Ive been asking for a while and you provided a pretty good way of seeing it with the fact that us going to hell is fair

[@RamonIsHim]

Calvinists believe that people being damned is just a Canon event

[@MaitlandJones]

While the Calvinist argument considers the elect, it does not consider the implication of the non-elect which would be an inherently evil being. God cannot create evil, allow it as a consequence of our actions yes, but not create it. Since God can't be evil he can't make evil people, but obviously evil people exist and had to come from somewhere. The solution is simple, choice. People can't be forced to be good, nor forced to be evil, which is why it is important to share the Gospel, else there would be no point in proselytization. If we had no choice or free will, then the just thing for God to do would be to simply reprogram us all to follow him. Since God is all good, yet people do not follow him, it is simple logic that he made us with the free will to choose him.

[@JosiahTheSiah]

Calvinistic soteriology is like a mess of cables. When you have the "elect" getting anxious about whether or not they or their loved ones are "elect," you know you've got a problem on your hands. It's easy to point out how Baptist understanding of salvation is very individualistic, but that's exactly where Calvinistic election _drives you._

[@timmacleod1944]

The way you struggled to explain your belifes and the mental loopholes you had to jump through to confirm this falible theology is astonishing

[@constantinopleisGreek]

I AM MAD CANT YOU SEE I AM MAD???EVEN THOUGH THIS VIDEO HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME BECAUSE I AM ORTHODOX

[@EXTREMEKIWI115]

This video was such a relief. In all honesty, I avoided this video for a bit. But now I see that it is mainly the Reformed Tradition's interpretation of the covenant with Adam that leads them to such conclusions on predestination. This is so much more understandable, and I can respect disagreeing with this view of Genesis as a lot of people disagree on Genesis. Before this video, I had assumed much worse things. But now I see that the disagreement is based on a rationalization of Genesis, rather than being fabricated out of some other strange, completely unBiblical philosophy. This, I can tolerate with much more ease.

[@TheRoark]

Zoomer represent the origins of reformed baptist theology correctly in one video challenge: impossble.

[@CosmicCrowMC]

The way I've always thought about free will and predestination is that it's our ignorance of the future that convicts us. Even if we are predestined to either accept the sacrifice of Jesus or not, we have no way of knowing who is predestined for salvation and who is not. The ability to pose the question "Is predestination fair?" shows that in your life, you have had the opportunity to know, accept, and love God, and make what is -- from your limited perspective -- a personal choice. Evangelism is important for this very reason: those who have had no physical way of knowing Jesus cannot make a choice as we can beyond spiritual intervention, which God can choose to do or not to do as he has also chosen who has had the opportunity to hear the good news from birth. As you mentioned, it's a hard pill to swallow, but once I accepted that God's will always comes first and that, in his will, he gave me the abilities (and limitations!) to come to my own decision about him, I was able to set aside my notion of what is fair and instead embrace what God is willing to do for me and others.

[@Belks1453]

Bro got the autistic special interest in christianity, good work!

[@Lukemacleary]

"I'm a youtuber guys what do you expect of me?" *Proceeds to become a quintessential factor in spearheading the Protestant Reconquista*

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

Most of this video fails to deal with the central question “Is Calvinism fair” in order to rehash the reasons why Calvinism is _true_ regardless of whether it is fair or not. So I have a few questions I’d like you to ponder, Reformed Zoomer, if you read this. 1) How can you fit Calvinism into the analagous language of the Bible? Remember, when God gives us analogies, it is not because we could understand it better in more literal language - rather, the analogy is the highest form of understanding because the analogy is what is found in God’s word. God created our bodies and our world in light of these analogies he was making. God is a father - and human fatherhood is rather an analogy for God than the other way around. So, simply put, how can you say Calvinism fits into the spousal and fatherhood images of God - that Christ is like a bridegroom and God is like an adoptive father? 2) You’ve used many phrases which, rather than giving good reason to believe in Calvinism, in reality, reveal the reasons you are attracted to it: "Calvinism has the strongest doctrine of sin", "This is the most God-centered theology", etc. . But do you think these ideas are also true of these statements: “Calvinism has the strongest doctrine of mercy.” “Calvinism has the most loving portayel of God.”? 3) How do you explain the choice of God to save some and not others? Why did he choose to leave some out? Doesn’t this contradict what Jesus taught about the Good Samaritan? I would like it if you could focus on these questions. I’m pleased that you name-dropped Leighton Flowers in this video. I’m especially pleased that you aren’t throwing any of us “Arminians” out of the kingdom. However, I hope you’ll consider our ideas more carefully- because I think you’re missing out on a more full understandign of just how great and overwhelming Christ’s love is for you, and for all the people who, in your view, are “reprobate” :D I know you desire their salvation. God does, too. A house divided against itself cannot stand; there are no “two wills” in God. Finally, I’m almost happier that you’ve come to fully embrace the erroneous theology in the Presbyterian church (the same theology that drove me away and brought me, for now, to a Methodist church.), because otherwise you wouldn’t stay to try and restore the church from within. Perhaps it’s better for you to stay _wrong_ since you’re doing good things with it. That being said, I wish you would stop making videos about it if you aren’t willing to deal with the really hard challenges!

[@franciscolucasdesouza8359]

I like the theology of methodist churches. did they become progressive or are they still conservatives?

[@matthewlucas3905]

@Redeemed Zoomer - do you have any in depth videos about hermeneutics? Or could you make one please? That would be awesome. I have a hard time understanding covenant theology but want to, so that I may see if I believe that perspective. Psalms 22:9-10 (the infant faith you spoke of)

[@CrippieMannster]

So… in Calvinism Christ didn’t die for everyone’s sins?

[@yunaru3643]

No, in Calvinism Jesus dies for the elect's sins

[@CrippieMannster]

@@yunaru3643 that’s the most satanic garbage I have ever heard. How can people actually believe this?

[@ihiohoh2708]

In Calvinism, God loves all of fallen humanity. (John 3:16) The logic is that even though that is true, and that the atonement is sufficient for all, the intent behind the atonement was not for the *individual* sins of the nonelect since that would mean Jesus atoned for their sins but they're being punished anyway. "Double Jeopardy" so to speak.

[@pardwayne]

So, Presbyterians reject the concept of repentance... Because He's already chosen who will go to Heaven regardless of whether they repent or not, right? Wait, then he says that we're saved by faith alone. So which one is it - salvation by faith, or salvation by predestination?

[@Mic1904]

Not how any of that works. If He's predestined them for Heaven, he's predestined them to repent.

[@ihiohoh2708]

Presbyterians hold to justification by faith, not justification from eternity so I think you're a bit confused. Also, all Christians should believe God has already chosen His elect before the foundation of the world regardless if you're Reformed or not since that is quite literally in the Bible. Calvinists just take things to their logical conclusions. I'm not saying that makes Presbyterians 100% correct, because our minds are obviously finite and cannot comprehend the mind of God. However, I think you have a misguided look on Calvinism as many do. Calvinists are not evil. This is something even some of my close family members have misconceptions about since predestination can be a difficult doctrine to accept. Especially since there are many people such as John MacArthur who make it into something it isn't or even worse, hyper-Calvinists/Supralapsarianism...

[@raphaelfeneje486]

Well, to be honest, Calvanism makes God the author of evil! Nice video!

[@Nathan-GB]

No it doesn’t.

[@SavingSoulsMinistries]

who else would be the author of evil if God is sovereign? Satan started operating outside of Gods will? that means he is not sovereign. i hear this debate brought up and it makes me scratch my head.. what you dont like scripture? Proverbs 16:4 “The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.”

[@gideonwiley8961]

This has to be true. Even if humans choose what they desire in Calvinism, (which is a suspect claim anyway) it makes God the originator of a universe in which sin envelops everything and in which all life is so corrupted so as to be incapable of doing anything good. If God is in control then he must be in control of evil as well.

[@jhoughjr1]

It also make the universe pointless as god created us to live a lie that we have choice.

[@JohnSmith-eu2dt]

Isaiah 45:7 says God is responsible for both good and evil.

[@BigPapiCapone]

Why do Calvinists get mad at me for rejecting Calvinism? It’s not like I had the free will to do so.

[@charles21137]

No Calvinist denies that general free will exist 😂. This is why Calvinist don’t like you.