Is Confucianism a Religion, or a Social Order?

I got em sexy eyebrows like old man Kong Zi
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[@Stoneworks]

I don't know a god damn thing about sexual intercourse Join the World Building Discord! discord.gg/f4dEzqv Join the Legends on Patreon! www.patreon.com/stoneworks Join the Minecraft Server! IP- 142.44.145.32:25619 Minecraft Discord- discord.gg/aUxQ3KSaTZ

[@travishunt2083]

Makes sense

[@beazles5684]

哎呀！你讨论孔子的时候不用说“和谐”吗？你是一个不好饺子！

[@beazles5684]

im almost impressed that you spent an entire video on Confucianism without using the word "harmony".

[@VinceValentine]

The auto-generated subtitles say at 2:12 "the joe dynasty". Heh. Their king was Joe Ma Ma.

[@JamesTullos]

I love apples.

[@futurelink1359]

NERD FIGHT! Joking obviously. Love seeing youtubers I subscribe to shout out to each other. lol Both you are great keep up the work.

[@forregom]

Personally i prefer pears

[@JoaoGabriel-hk8ub]

@@futurelink1359 Nerd fight is the fight I would watch in the arenas of my empire.

[@VanLightning900]

Former patron here. Would love to throw apples

[@nunyabiznes33]

🍎

[@b.a.r.c.l.a.y9701]

oh you like philosophy? name every thought

[@ofthecaribbean]

Hey, thoughty2 here

[@YataTheFifteenth]

Easy. What is life? And that's pretty much it.

[@mattahlschwede4810]

There are two thoughts, 1 and 0. Everything else is a remix of those two.

[@nowhereman6019]

Joker Qin Shi Huang is something I didn't know I needed.

[@forregom]

13:25 (If anyone's confused)

[@Lucas-df4ht]

Make this a series on Chinese inspired world building, no balls, I’d watch the shit out of that.

[@Stoneworks]

Depends on how well this video does, if it gets spread around and ppl like it I'll do more on China 👍

[@Its_shiki_time4876]

I second this hard

[@concept5631]

​@@Stoneworks Aww man did the video not do well enough? :

[@anttitikkanen5985]

This ☝️

[@KaiserTwo]

Chinese inspired world building is literally just one single geographical region of utmost importance, power, and everyone else is irrelevant. The strength and hedgemony of the Middle Kingdom is absurd.

[@Xalantor]

As I started to read chinese web novels about cultivation set in pseudo ancient china the mentality of those characters make much more sense in context with confucianism. I'd also like a video on Buddhism and Daoism please.

[@Stoneworks]

Depends on how well this video does, if it gets spread around and ppl like it I'll do more on China 👍

[@TheBurgerkrieg]

The moment you leave Europe it becomes immediately obvious that Religion and Ideology are just two sides of the same coin.

[@valer119]

It's obvious going to Europe as a non European. Especially if you don't come from a Abrahamic Tradition.

[@unyosalvaje3493]

Me seeing the title: - " Confucius is the creator of confusión"

[@lebleu8843]

No sir, I'm pretty sure Al-quarizmi was the inventor of confusion. ; )

[@unyosalvaje3493]

@@lebleu8843 Lol. I´m referencing an old miss Venezuela show where on girl was asked who was confucius, and she respond that.

[@lcmiracle]

You must have gruellingly practiced the mandarin pronunciation under the hard mentorship of Google Translate.

[@anamaaes9218]

Your pronounciation at 02:31 was actually quite decent, all things considered! Also with Confucianism you got most of the basics down, though there are also a lot of branches of Confusianism even prior to Neo-Confucianism that go into more in depth and get even radically different from one and other despite being the same school. Mengzi for example elaborated more on Confucius' ideas, such as ideas on compassion and piety, and went even further with the idea of rulers or people on top of the hierarchies being fundamentally in service of the people and must and will be overthrown if rulers perform otherwise. Mengzi's thoughts also formed much of the skeleton of the later Neo-Confucianism, which influenced much of the Song Dynasty that is popularly seen as "The Civilized Age" of ancient China. Then you also had Xunzi who was more authoritarian and realpolitik and had a lot more overlap with Legalist thought, but still emphasized the same ideas for the common good of the people (rather than "the State", as Qin legalism had it), and emphasized merit over ones family ties and family status, and was overall more skeptical towards unconditional filial piety in general especially.

[@comrademax9254]

Confucius Gaming

[@daddyleon]

*+Stoneworks* 1:20 I don't think it's weird: What is a 'religion'? Or what makes something a religion? As you said, Confucianism doesn't worship a god. What we (westerners) traditionally call religions, does feature gods, often. There are the well-known theistic forms, like: Sikhism, Hinduism; but also supernatural but not theistic, like: Jainism, new ageism. Sometimes secular religions are mentioned, e.g.: nationalism/civic religion, socialism, environmentalism. So what makes something "a religion"? If socialism can be seen as a religion, is capitalism or consumerism a religion as well; if environmentalism is a religion could veganism be one too? It's clearly a moral pov, but it also gives meaning and direction to life, it can provide for community or identity. So what about a less specific moral framework, that might be slightly less community providing, like utilitarianism? And within this 'moral part', there can be various lenses too, some are much more easily seen as personal (virtue ethics, Kant) other much state-oriented (like utilitarianism, Machiavelli or Confucianism). And if meaning, identity, etc. can be considered important, what about a strong sort of fandom? Or other strongly held beliefs, like those of anti-vaxxers? I don't have a clear cut answer. I could see it being a case of concentric circles. With religion being one of the circles, state philosophy another. Or perhaps it's more like Wittgenstein's notion of family resemblance and we could see the relations between these things more like venn or euler diagrams. I find it a very interesting question and I don't have a clear-cut answer for it, while I lean towards the latter ideas. It could mean you're following several religions at the same time, without them being necessarily contradictory, making fusion and syncretism a lot easier to...explain and accept as well. Quuiite a tangent, I agree. But I think it's an interesting tangent, and could be useful if you're doing world-building.

[@theshadowsagas3617]

Don't think I didn't notice your sneaky use of the Civ5 Soundtrack

[@MadHatter42]

This is one of the better, more concise explanations of Confucianism I've seen on KZbin. You really nail how it defies conventional Western standards of Religion vs. Philosophy vs. Politics, and getting outside of that rigid way of conceptualizing things can really open a writer up to forming more unique and interesting worlds.

[@mon0lithic629]

Watching this makes me even more sad, since in modern China they reject most of this cultural heritage in favour of soulless economic efficiency. A real fucking shame

[@Stoneworks]

ey culture is what culture is, an ideology which seeks to destroy the traditional for modernity will do that to a country. Hell, as an American I personally identify with it, do what works and what doesn't be damned. Shit maybe I've lost my soul

[@mon0lithic629]

@@Stoneworks Its just that, I've lived in China for quite some time and most traditional or historic stuff I've seen was usually related to the Odyssey to the West or other real old stuff. And even so, most of it is just so... tasteless and vulgar that it makes me puke. Even now when I'm trying to see Chinese lore for what it is I just can't comprehend it properly because of the associations with these poor pop-culture'd versions of myths and legends

[@Stoneworks]

@@mon0lithic629 I've dated a chinese girl from Xi'an, I know they got a bit of traditional Chinese history and literature in their education, but it seemed as detached as how Americans learn about European cultural heritage. Seemed like she/they didn't care to learn it much, like they didn't identify with it at all.

[@Seth9809]

I'm still trying to figure out why Japan had fanatical Buddhist monks who loved to fight, if Buddism is about pacifism and detachment.

[@TomorrowWeLive]

It's a lot more complicated than that. Sri Lankan Buddhists celebrate how the island was forcibly subjugated and converted to Buddhism and Tibetan monasteries had full-on wars with each other. Basically (as with most religions), practical necessity beats idealism every time, and violence is justified when it's in the service of the religion. I think probably the only truly pacifist creed is Jainism.

[@Polkaknot]

Damn, that's where I'm going wrong I always leave washing in the machine too long. The rest is easy to follow.

[@joaovitorreisdasilva9573]

Ok, political confucianism has elements of Hobbes and Rousseau social contract theories, and before they did their fucking theories, this is fucking amazing and I am in love with chinese philosophy now. (However I disagree with a lot of shit, from what I gather from this video, buuuut nonetheless it's must be some good shit to read)

[@MadHatter42]

Chinese Humanism was centuries ahead of it's time.

[@rystiya7262]

It should be noticed that most of the time, confucism is the official ideology used to justify the rule of the emperor, while legalism is the unwritten rules which the emperor actually employs. Other beliefs are usually not favored by the government while prevelent among ordinary people.

[@kamielheeres8687]

I really loved this video, and I hope you can make videos on other chinese religion/philosophies like buddhism and daoism. Maybe even some more obscure ones such as yangism and agriculturalism.

[@zenebean]

When the police don't respect the people they are supposed to protect, then respect should not be given to them. So yeah, the thumbnail probably works in that concept

[@Nathouuuutheone]

What a twist not even twenty seconds in haha I legit got mad when you said "the real virtues of confucianism" but you sure saved it with deez nuts. Props, bro. Props.

[@runningcommentary2125]

9:47. Centralize it. Don't criticize it. Centralize it, yeah. Yeah. And I will stabilize it. -Confucius.

[@marvalice3455]

I have serious issues with Confucius, but the ideas based on him are interesting for stories

[@JakeSmith-mq5dc]

This is exactly the sort of stuff I've been wanting to see. I love Eastern Culture so much, but I could never unravel exactly what it is made up of. Like you said, it has so many different rabbit holes you can end up going down that I often get frustrated and sadly give up. Please make more of these that you alluded to and thanks again for making these type of world building videos.

[@Stoneworks]

the frequency I make them depends on how well this video does, if it gets spread around and ppl like it I'll do more on China 👍

[@ethanotoroculus1060]

Actually, the way you described Confucius's philosophy sounded a lot more akin to agnosticism than atheism. A large part of the agnostic belief is not dismissing concepts of spirituality directly while acknowledging our inability to make an accurate claim one way or another, which seems to align with the wording _(as it is translated)_ much more closely. Just thought I'd make that observation as an agnostic myself.

[@danshakuimo]

Time to start spreading a Confucianism-analogue on the Stoneworks server and see how many rebellions are started under the pretense that the ruler lost the Rathniri equivalent of the Mandate of Heaven. And we can have admins make disasters happen in nations and see how well the leaders handle the situation in order to give rebellions a much more concrete justification rather than just mere powergrabbing.

[@EdricoftheWeald]

I for one appreciate the Runescape bronze bars

[@CoffeeInsomnia14]

As someone who is trying his best to worldbuild an eastern-like country/continent with only little prior knowledge of actual ancient eastern politics and doctrines, this video has not only inspired me to continue looking into it, but also opened many possibilities of how it could develop in of itself and along with the other nations I'm working on. Truly a great video! You earned my subscription!!!

[@TheNotoriousLARGE]

10:47 we live in a dynasty

[@alsinbad3772]

For 4:05, I wonder if the background was taken from a video game or something?

[@gabrielmerchant]

I loved this but mostly because you sound like Sokka, my guy

[@CasanovaDoctor]

*reads the initial disclaimer* *reads the "Vehicular manslaughter"* YOU READ HOMESTUCK!

[@The9garr]

Vehicular manslaughter you say? I guess regular manslaughter wasn't enough

[@tacticalwhiskey3766]

Whizk of Aurora formally says this video cool

[@man.inblack]

Isn’t Daoism a heavy influence of his ideas? Didn’t Lao Tsu(?) bamboozle him in his student days? It’s not a criticism of this video, but I think Daoism is a better place to start because it’s core concepts set up a lot for Confucius to continue with. Flow, self development, compatibility with other ideologies and religion as well as practical guidelines for social, health, political and spiritual development. The divine right of leadership was based on which association of the ying/yang opposites they were related to and their position in the heavens (if your ‘Venus’ and it’s in ascension, you had the mandate to rule) If you want an understanding of this aspect of Chinese self, health and philosophical development try the YT channel ‘religion for breakfast’ and his 3 part Daoism series. It even puts greater understanding in the meaning of ying/yang (which may upset the chads) I’m using it as an inspiration for a post apocalyptic corporate ideology that misrepresents its ideals and outcomes to manufacture authoritative consent, but are undone by rebel idealists who realise the original promise of the ideology - an analogy of capitalism perhaps?

[@thechikage1091]

This is definitely gonna be useful for how I look into forming state-sanctioned religions and acceptable forms of worship within it, also the aesthetics are beautiful and so unique Also tankies mad

[@WorldofSoupS]

An apple a day keeps the tullos away

[@Stoneworks]

WORLD OF SOUP SOUP SOUP SOUP SOUP SOUP SOUP

[@ofthecaribbean]

0:24, jokes on you he's into that shit

[@Crusty_Cephalopod]

Chefs kiss to this one

[@tbond3619]

Religious soup is actually how I tend to world build my religions.

[@autohmae]

"Written down after he died"... this sound like a familiar pattern in religions, etc.

[@Lapeno456]

*Please* do a video on Shrek´s World Building

[@ethandelgado7458]

10:48 We live in a society.

[@duskshard4854]

*James Tullos has left the chat*

[@Zeoytaccount]

Are you taking Chinese? Your pronunciation is pretty good 👌

[@lifelongstudents233]

Wow this video actually makes feudalism sound good.

[@TomorrowWeLive]

I assume you mean by contrast? Because what's being described in this video is not feudalism. It's literally the exact opposite.

[@the_Kutonarch]

Confucius: _"We live in a society!"_

[@renaigh]

Euro Man heard Mandarin for the first time and thought "this is the language of the gods" and ever since people misunderstood Chinese Philosophical ideology as a form of Mysticism.

[@robot_girlyman1556]

Pretty cool vid here cheif

[@VinceValentine]

1:40 MORTAL KOMBAAAAAAAT!

[@samham9931]

Neat

[@mollof7893]

Ma Husbando James Tullos

[@ieuanhunt552]

I suspect that the CCP does not have the mandate of heaven

[@nunyabiznes33]

It's officially atheist so it don't care about spirits and stuff... Unless you try to reincarnate, in which case you need a license or else you can't, but unless you're the Dalai Lama, in which case you will be made to reincarnate by force even if you don't want to.

[@nunyabiznes33]

It's officially atheist so it don't care about spirits and stuff... Unless you try to reincarnate, in which case you need a license or else you can't, but unless you're the Dalai Lama, in which case you will be made to reincarnate by force even if you don't want to.

[@aysseralwan]

Oh no I shouldn't have watched this video major spoilers for the manga Kingdom 😔

[@siluda9255]

confusionism is kind confusing

[@zyanego3170]

Mmmm, yes very wise

[@bonnetshorestv2118]

watching ur vids makes me feel more intelligent

[@PlanetESPYREX]

Nice rick roll video

[@Devynwithawhy]

To be fair, what the police do to black people in this country is pretty bad, and has been bad for a long time. Sure, it's a lot better today than it was during the time of the slave catchers, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I met a guy on the bus who was like me an author, and we talked about books, and work stuff. He lives in the Hood a few blocks away from my neighborhood, and recently the police broke his wrist for... no reason. And he said the police around here are mostly good people. I'm starting to understand that a lot of police are thugs, a lot are good people, some are carreerists, some are just jerks, and a lot of them are "just doing their job" normies. What's going on in New York, with police illegally arresting business owners for ... running their business... is deeply concerning. I don't understand why there are undercover cops sneaking around spreading fear of making a living. I don't get why people would defend cops unless there are people actively calling for killing cops (which is a bad idea.)... Idk, I'm rambling. Confuscism is cool. :-)

[@JTL1776]

Whaaaattttt. Intro.

[@thgrxxll]

wait, where is rick astley? this is not what i've seen a month ago

[@lifelongstudents233]

So this was about D&D all along?

[@addgame7961]

Because Confucianism effectively separate Religion from morality, they are utilitarian in terms of religion. This is a Chinese Joke I heard from a friend. "Why is your gramma catholic? because they are giving away milk and rice. " they will pray at whatever as long as it works, if it doesn't, they might eventually switch who they are praying at.

[@Devynwithawhy]

Who's this Stoneyboy fella?

[@Stoneworks]

CEST MOI

[@Devynwithawhy]

@@Stoneworks lol

[@user-fg5yw7ko5t]

Confusionism

[@kjv35]

Notification squad rollin up

[@ijon-y4549]

What? No Rickroll anymore?

[@fedoramaster6035]

1:00 for one, that hasn’t always been true. Chinese emperors/dynasties from time to time dedicated themselves to one belief system over others, or just tried to establish more firm separation. Off the top of my head, empress Wu was a devout Buddhist, but not *particularly* into Confucianism, by sexist virtue of necessity. The Qin dynasty notably despised the Confucian historians who kept badmouthing them for their warcrimes too. Secondly, I don’t think that’s as weird as westerners make it out to be. Don’t we do the same thing in North America and Europe? Fairys aren’t mentioned in the Bible. neither are witches, the undead, dragons (well… there aren’t flying fire breathing dragons in the Bible), coronation stones, werewolves, et cetera. Melding folk and philosophical belief with religious doctrine is something that happens everywhere, the difference is that in China all three are codified sets of beliefs. Edit: you could also say that China is (somewhat) unique in that its native folk religion survived alongside organized religion as a semi-separate entity.

[@FriendofOnas]

Can I get a Lao Zhu🥺

[@meowzebub9667]

No, you the great!

[@JoiskiMe]

Not exactly in favour of legalism are we?

[@xo-1320]

I say the thumbnail is right and wrong.

[@pancake7682]

pancakes are good

[@blackiceyt9164]

16 minutes late, nuts

[@vulkanofnocturne]

3:10 tbf women wanted patriarchy until modern technology made the world safer. To believe otherwise is to think women are inferior because why would two equal forces always end in power for the one over the other, throughoutt the world for millennia? The answer can only be choice or they are not equal forces.

[@alderontyran]

F操警察 is literally "F [control] [guard against] [investigate]" or more accurately: "F [control] [police]" (it may just be "F [Police]" thus the joke is, it may be using Chinese in place of English asterisks to censor a 4-letter word starting with F, or it's the Chinese word for police being translated into English. I couldn't find anything entertaining about the phonology (lit. " f- cāo jîng chá" doesn't spell anything I know)

[@alderontyran]

@UCQ8nSCiO8HXCH-BTp1R-DyA You learn something every day! Thanks!

[@nightblockprimecraft9284]

You don’t have to do an accent when pronouncing stuff. Might come off a bit dicey.

[@Mage_Chartreux]

Lotus feet

[@deadgavin4218]

religion and theism arent synonyms, religion refers to the preformance of a set of rituals

[@Stoneworks]

and beliefs

[@mastreflame1966]

Confucianism is an Eastern Philosophy not a religion.

[@Federico19871000]

Confucianism is not a religion...

[@Ggdivhjkjl]

Confusianism is a philosophy, not a religion.

[@TheOneCalledSloth]

It's also a religion. Some people just have a weird view of what a religion is, you don't need a big God figure.

[@maldito_sudaka]

PhilosophyTube ❤️