Is dark matter real? | Sean Carroll and Lex Fridman

Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Sean Carroll: General ...
Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
- HiddenLayer: hiddenlayer.com/lex
- Cloaked: cloaked.com/lex and use code LexPod to get 25% off
- Notion: notion.com/lex
- Shopify: shopify.com/lex to get $1 per month trial
- NetSuite: netsuite.com/lex to get free product tour
GUEST BIO:
Sean Carroll is a theoretical physicist, author, and host of Mindscape podcast.
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: lexfridman.com/podcast
Apple Podcasts: apple.co/2lwqZIr
Spotify: spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
RSS: lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
Full episodes playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast
Clips playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast Clips
SOCIAL:
- Twitter: / lexfridman
- LinkedIn: / lexfridman
- Facebook: / lexfridman
- Instagram: / lexfridman
- Medium: / lexfridman
- Reddit: / lexfridman
- Support on Patreon: / lexfridman

[@LexClips]

Full podcast episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpXZaKVof7iioas Lex Fridman podcast channel: kzbin.info Guest bio: Sean Carroll is a theoretical physicist, author, and host of Mindscape podcast.

[@RichardsWorld]

Dark Matter, matters.

[@timmy-wj2hc]

White doesn't.

[@chinaman1]

Dark lives matter

[@matthewcasagrande231]

Dark energy, energizes.

[@annunacky4463]

Dark frequencies frequent the darkness.

[@vandergruff]

☝African American Matter Matters!

[@awesomedavid2012]

While the discovery of neptune is undoubtedly a success story, what it also important to mention is planet Vulcan. When mercury's orbit was deviating, we hypothesized a planet just as we did for neptune; one so close to the sun we couldn't see it. But it turns out, our model was wrong. It wasn't just more matter we couldn't see.

[@tma2001]

nice catch! yeah it was a modification of gravity.

[@lobohez7222]

Exactly, sloppy arguments of our "top minds" worries me.. Dont forget our "top minds" still advocates covid vaccination, after millions of dead and tens of milluins fucked up.

[@guitarriff123]

Very great point!!!! 👍🏻

[@garetclaborn]

Also; with Neptune the deviations were not 20x the signal. We are at basically negative sigma.

[@bluntforcetrauma6333]

Hogwash

[@LeRequinBlue]

Very interesting to listen to

[@XKS99]

He needs Sabine on

[@stevenfrancis8478]

exactly.

[@talkingmudcrab718]

Yes. Agreed.

[@caveman-cp9tq]

HAHAHAHAHA

[@julioandrianjafy5296]

Correct

[@antonbelsky]

He needs Nick Gorkavyi on.

[@EannaButler]

Extremely well explained! 👏

[@mrblack888]

A lot of people who have never and will never publish a single paper on the subject seem to think they know a whole lot more about it than the people who have.

[@nehorlavazapalka]

it's 50/50 guess on both sides, expertise matters a little in theo. physics because at least 50 % of it is completely wrong (GR vs quantum)...

[@johnnytass2111]

Welcome to People of the Internet. Not unlike People of Walmart.

[@timchurch2390]

So should people just not speculate or talk/think about things they haven't published papers on or what? How about you stop trying to gate keep topics that you don't have any published papers on either?

[@mrblack888]

@@timchurch2390 People with absolutely no expertise should keep their opinions to themselves. The world has enough ignorant opinion already.

[@garetclaborn]

A lot of published papers are recycled garbage and more than half of papers that get past peer review can't be reproduced - at least according to peer review. Michael Faraday has an attitude similar to the one you mock.

[@bobjackson6669]

Good talk.

[@DaEnforcer24]

Sean is one of the best at explaining the complex theories of physics. Would be interesting to see him pitted against Sabine on the topics of string theory and quantum mechanics😊

[@AutisticThinker]

Dark matter could maybe also be plank relics.I would find that more interesting than modifying gravity or it being a particle.

[@guitarriff123]

Agreed! Primordial black holes would be a really interesting explanation. If only we had an astronomical sized particle accelerator to reach the energy levels needed to observe interactions at that scale 😩😭

[@alenkova30]

I think its gravity becoming stronger over time. We live in short timescales that we dont see it happening. Almost like when you put something in mud. It will deform over time and absorb it

[@georgeshotrodbarn2113]

Its everywhere in my neighborhood.

[@superkittyshow1782]

Dark matter and brown dwarfs?

[@Fister_of_Muppets]

Any white holes?

[@cbrg870]

Lmao I've got plenty of basketball Americans in my neighborhood

[@aroemaliuged4776]

Dark matter interacts via gravity and comprises about 27% of the universe's mass-energy, while dark energy is a mysterious force driving the universe's accelerated expansion, constituting about 68%. If only we had a theory

[@johnnytass2111]

Could we conceive of Dark Energy/ Matter as the multiverse paths that didn't collapse in this observable Universe, thus only being able to sense the absence?

[@garetclaborn]

Hmm so we actually measure expected matter as 5% Another way of reading this is that Lamda CDB is so horrendously bad at predictions that, even after inserting infinities that break causality and go faster than the speed of light, for the inflationary epoch, it still has error bars of more than an entire magnitude different than measurement, 20x. Practically a negative sigma with zero ability to predict anything without introducing tons of error terms and calling them dark x, dark y. Excuse me, it does have 5% ability.

[@aroemaliuged4776]

@@johnnytass2111 no

[@Steckdose50Hz-ht2un]

Assuming that space-time is not uniform and only curves due to mass, but has its own structure, similar to the overtones or formats of a vibrating string, only three-dimensional. The idea here is to see a static system dynamically, to make it artificially more complex. So you could see the space-time of the universe as a function, or even make it audible :)

[@andrewrivera4029]

All matter matters.

[@donwayne1357]

I released some dark matter this morning. I felt much better after I did.

[@IndenturedSavant13]

I'm antimatter

[@donwayne1357]

@@IndenturedSavant13 Wadda Matta Yu?

[@garetclaborn]

> pareto distribution has entered the chat

[@donwayne1357]

@@garetclaborn Get cornholed tonight.

[@RagingGeekazoid]

Is evidence for the particle hypothesis absolutely conclusive? I know MOND has supposedly been ruled out, but do we know for a fact at this point that there can't possibly be any other class of explanations?

[@talkingmudcrab718]

Dark Matter is an "observation." Not a "particle." Yet. Until we isolate a particle, it will remain merely an unexplained data point in our observations.

[@joebotz1243]

It'll never happen because particles don't exist. Only fields and waves

[@imbass8151]

@@joebotz1243 that s a large claim, my friend.

[@neilcreamer8207]

It's not even an observation. It's an idea to account for an observation.

[@talkingmudcrab718]

@@joebotz1243 you're confusing force carriers I think. Particles do indeed exist...

[@awesomedavid2012]

​@@joebotz1243a particle is an energy peak in a field.

[@kevinlyons5314]

@3:53 the best question asked by Lex so far

[@jimmydean123123]

Remember when this guy didnt know what a woman was

[@Adam-vx6to]

The only correct answer : maybe. Anyone claiming different is wrong

[@miedzinshs]

If you choose to ignore the empirical evidence accrued over the decades, sure.

[@Adam-vx6to]

@@miedzinshs so you know for sure?

[@miedzinshs]

Science does not work like that. We can have credences for various competing theories that change as we obtain more evidence. Saying “maybe” or “we don’t know” etc does not capture the significant amount of evidence we have for existence of DM.

[@docdaytona108]

“Master Carroll: IS the dark matter more powerful?”

[@shutincharlie3461]

I am convinced my underwear are Dark matter catchers!

[@NathanDean79]

I don’t believe that Dark matter is an undiscovered particle. I think it’s just a by product of us not completly understanding gravity space and time. I think that either general relativity is missing something that would account for all the extra gravity we are seeing OR that a quantum Theory of gravity will Explain it.

[@VitaILetum]

very interested in how far we can take quantum gravity theory - with dark matter and dark energy, are less boring answers and just convenient answers. If its a particle its probably more then just one type ~ dark energy probably has variance to it as well. Further still Its possible that these properties are of a higher dimension and why its so hard to detect. if we interact with x,y,z (3rd) and time is our variable as a (4th) it would make sense that other dimensions still have some impact on what we observe.

[@Defort-jd8xe]

This is why he said that it would be more exciting if it wasnt a particle

[@johnnytass2111]

Could we conceive of Dark Matter as the multiverse paths that didn't collapse in this observable Universe, thus only being able to sense the absence?

[@garetclaborn]

I more or less agree with you. Tho in particular I think it is at the intersection of Brownian motion and Lagrange points. Basically as galaxies rotate, they are harmonically kicking themselves.

[@givemesomesugar93]

I dont think you understand enough to have an opinion anyone cares about or takes seriously

[@ValidatingUsername]

Define energy first Lex 😂😊

[@Alexadria205]

What trips everything up is that there are galaxies that appear to have very little dark matter in them. So its not necessarily something that's evenly distributed through space like a field or modified graviry. Must be infuriating for physicists!

[@Msantor1605]

😂

[@vaccaphd]

What about primordial black holes as an explanation for dark matter?

[@choilive]

while not completely ruled out- right now the evidence points to primordial black holes being dark matter being extremely unlikely. If anything primordial black holes could make up a small percentage of dark matter but that’s it

[@bombud1]

What if the charged nature of the solar system and galaxies help hold things in certain orbits depending on mass and charge. Like how the sun is connected to planets via Birkeland Currents. There's no need for dark matter at all.

[@VitorHugo-vq1uf]

yes.

[@omarjdiaz]

What if gravity and dark energy are opposites of each other?Concentration of one won’t allow concentration of the other.

[@watgaz518]

Maybe the first 2 things produced from the BB were Dark Energy and Matter (95%). Their unknown physics and interactions over time, then responsible for the creation of 5% visible matter?

[@halweilbrenner9926]

Dark matter is a placeholder for something we don't understand.

[@richblacklock]

I’d like to hear Sean in a real discussion with the Electric Universe people. Does the EU paradigm really do a better job of explaining than the standard model?

[@randerscheinung1]

Neptune... And how about Vulcan? No planet, just gravity

[@solvingpolitics3172]

Dark matter, controlled by Dark Vader.

[@8ojack]

The way Lex described it in the beginning did sound like the force 😅

[@Splozy]

Is dark matter gloopy and viscous?

[@joebotz1243]

Like mercury

[@garetclaborn]

nah it just makes galaxies spin fast

[@jasonparker3361]

He revealed his problem. He has the equation and then he waves his hands, but he can't find the words.

[@williamcartedge5583]

It's nothing like the Saturn thing

[@I86282]

Spatial gradient. Not the curvature of space. 👍

[@shaunroscoe5617]

I think the universe is spinning it kind of covers both dark energy and dark matter

[@davids.688]

Me likey the way your brain thinks ... had the same thought a while back for a book I was outlining at the time, because it beggared the question: spinning in relation to what? (the answer to which would seem right up Sean Carroll’s alley). Wish I had become a physicist rather than a fluffer for a sperm bank.

[@mylegguy8115]

Imagine using this as a pick up line.

[@richardmixon8177]

Works better than you think.

[@jimbob8992]

Look, it is not fundamentally mysterious, it's my particle. Always pulls in the ladies.

[@unodos149]

The weird thing about physics, as it continues forward, is some of the theories start to sound more and more familiar - familiar in the sense of reminding one of past pseudoscience theories, like Tesla's notion of "ether", innate energy everywhere throughout reality. Other than the leap that Tesla figured that if "energy" was everywhere, why can't it be tapped, what's the difference, at a fundamental level, between modern physics saying that "dark energy" is mysterious energy that is consistent everywhere - and the notion of "ether" being an energy that is everywhere?

[@RagingGeekazoid]

The luminiferous ether was from Hendrik Lorentz.

[@sergeyromanov5560]

because aether is matter, not pure energy duh

[@randerscheinung1]

What if there's not _more_ matter than we observe - but _less_ space than we assume?

[@ANunes06]

Have we ever come up with an "analogous" situation that arises from the presence of dark energy? Something that stays the same density in an expanding volume. First thought is that it has to be the thing that is expanding the volume, like adding air into a boundless volume but ... not quite, which is obviously the definition and not helpful. Now I'm thinking, if infinite eternal inflation is true, the dark energy could be in the non-inflating void, and the differential in space-time curvature between the inflating regions and the non-inflating regions creates some kind of tension against the actual fabric of spacetime in the areas that have inflated. That's a ton of math I don't wanna do though.

[@zeviklein1289]

Darkness is absence of light

[@patrickdodge916]

Is dark matter more prevalent in larger, more massive galaxies than smaller, less massive galaxies?

[@chadr76]

Dark matter is just a name we made up to mean "we don't know"

[@jimitbhatt4829]

Just as a point to bring up Lex, Neptune was discovered & theorized WITHOUT the use of dark matter. In fact, if you retrospect it, you are just adding random vector forces in the equation & calling it dark matter. Neptune's orbit is fully. FULLY. Explained via GR & the field equations do fully map out its orbit. To this very day, there is zero evidence that Neptune's discovery or orbital motion has anything to do with dark matter.

[@HolyMith]

"just a particle" lol. A particle that ONLY interacts gravitationally (or incredibly weakly in all other cases) couldn't possibly give us clues into what quantized gravity might look like? A particle that isn't predicted anywhere in the standard model and is therefore the first clear candidate for beyond standard model physics. Im amazed he blows it off so casually as just a boring particle.

[@ekkemoo]

Amazing, stunning stuff! If I could live again, I would be dark matter physicist!

[@BlazinEurasian]

Dark matter is a new big bang where there is no gravity due to virtual particles. We can't peer inside of the new big bang space.

[@shutincharlie3461]

Dark matter.....augh .....i thought we were talking pancake batter!

[@abiandorionsworld6735]

What if an ancient civilisation dyson sphered all the coolest stars before we invented telescopes

[@jomamackdaddy]

Could dark matter be the remnants of atoms that have been destroyed? The mass is still there, but it can't be formed back into anything. I'm probably an idiot.

[@RagingGeekazoid]

There's no mass left after atoms are destroyed, except whatever particles are left over, and there's nothing mysterious about them.

[@Chrischi7777]

Yes

[@stoneandbeachtube]

Definitely not an idiot! Throwing out questions like these and figuring out the answers is a great way to learn. It's a fine idea, atoms decaying into some sterile remnant that then just sits around, but if you dig into it you'll find that atoms (and matter in general) isn't really destroyed. In the case of atoms, where the protons and neutrons of the nucleus are made up of quarks, there's something called "baryon number conservation". This is an empirical observation that if some number of quarks and antiquarks go into a reaction, the same number will come out, so quarks don't really go away. (We know that this can't have been true in the early universe, though I'm not good on the exact details, but right now it seems to hold.)

[@philipsmith7904]

I have studied dark matter and discovered the darth vader particle , where light and heatt causes the orbits of the electrons to expand where dark energy causes a force to reduce electron orbits , i need funding to develop dark energy roof panels to produce electricity during night. I require $ one billion to set up my factory in nigeria

[@jacksmith4460]

seems like a re imagining of "the Ether" to me, but without wanting to call it that (Dark Energy)

[@thomabow8949]

The ether was conjectural, and has since been refuted. Dark energy is an inference based on observation and measurement, and has not yet been confirmed nor refuted. They are not the same

[@RagingGeekazoid]

@@thomabow8949 The ether has not been scientifically refuted. Only politically defeated. Plus general relativity and dark energy require the vacuum to have properties that are normally associating with things that are "made of something". The main problems with the ether are (1) there's no positive evidence for it (special relativity (Lorentz symmetry) has been experimentally verified to within at least 20 significant digits) and (2) it doesn't explain quantization of fields.

[@billballinger5622]

As is "quantum foam" "zero-point energy" "spacetime" etc. Scientists dont like to admit being wrong

[@jacksmith4460]

@@thomabow8949 sorry who said they were the same.I certainly did not but as long as we are playing "put words in others mouths" , but seeing as we are here, there are aspects of both that cross over in terms of what they are describing, if you cant see that , I cant help you. And you are wrong the ether was not disproved, it was dropped in favour of relativity due to experimental observation, but yeh carry on talking at me like I know nothing and you know everything based on an assumption because you did not agree. Yawn

[@jacksmith4460]

@@billballinger5622 exactly, even the notion they could be triggers emotional reactions in many people its quite strange to observe Soon comes the cries of Peer review lool followed by the wilful ignorance of ego and greed and corruption like they are suddenly not a part of human existence when science is being discussed

[@MikeFields83]

Does it matter?

[@tma2001]

I'm surprised at his lack of humility - a recent study of 6 million galaxies and 100's of thousands of quasars (DESI survey) hinted at lambda not being so constant after all. It seems the more data we collect the more complicated the picture. Anyway this is an early release, still a few years to go when it will have measured 35 million galaxies.

[@mrwideboy]

Thw higgs field it surrounds us it binds us and holds the galaxy toegetrr

[@hunterabdo1952]

حقيقية لأن حسب وزن الكون هناك مادة أثقل و اكثف من المادة المضيئة ثابت الكوني فيه معادلة تأكد أنه هناك مادة أثقل و اكثف و هناك تجارب كثيرة ستأكد ما أقوله

[@jmf5246]

The ether from the 19th century is back baby!

[@Walter-uy4or]

Dark matter actually was first proposed about a century ago, not in the 1970s. There are many different dark matter theories. Which one is right?

[@ThePhysicalReaction]

Perhaps we can’t observe dark matter because it isn’t a where, but a when. A shadow of sorts.

[@rudolfsykora3505]

Could dark matter just be tiny little black holes that emerged right at beginning of big bang?

[@itscomplicated5507]

I am not a theoretical physicist but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once. I believe dark energy is the same thing as what has been called a “virtual particle”.

[@superkittyshow1782]

You are overqualified

[@joebotz1243]

Akasha.. Prima materia

[@crunchfishgames8245]

Now that they have discovered galaxies that formed 500M years after the fake big bang, could dark matter help form galaxies that early?

[@antonbelsky]

He needs Nick Gorkavyi on.

[@hunterabdo1952]

حقيقية لأن حسب وزن الكون هناك مادة أثقل و اكثف من المادة المضيئة ثابت الكوني فيه معادلة تأكد أنه هناك مادة أثقل و اكثف و هناك تجارب كثيرة ستأكد ما أقوله و سبب عدم رصدها ليس انها مظلمة بل بسبب كثافتها اكثف مادة في الكون و نسبتها في الكون تقريبا كنسبة المادة المضيئة متقاربين في نسبة وجودهم في الكون

[@poindextertunes]

Damn we would’ve had a planet Vulcan? bummer

[@shutincharlie3461]

Are dark matter farts lumpy?.......No? Than i sh$t myself!

[@randerscheinung1]

I also don't want dark matter and dark energy...

[@faridsayegh3512]

Light matter is thermal energy because it is electrons literally hitting our eye, can burn them etc etc there must be a balance that stabilizes this process. Gravitational lensing is a common way to assess and determine location but not at the speeds or with the ‘foresight’ for a manned vessel capable of hyperspace. Lol

[@cateranoverlord8116]

What if dark matter was the manifestation of light exhibiting mass as a result of a particle that has yet to be discovered?

[@SwimCoach8]

I am far to old and under educated to participate in this discussion....But....My high school education and I feel compelled. Every time I see this topic come up , my guts twist in knots. My simple brain tells me there is some understanding of large bodies and how they warp both space and time on the massive and atomic scale that Physicists have missed. Or is so strange the equations don't exist. Or is so simply complicated, NVidia hasn't made the chip set that will allow the computations. As the James Webb begins to reveal secrets of the past. Finding things that shouldn't exist on "Our" cosmological time line. How does dark matter factor into the Way Back Machine when we discover these large bodies we theorized couldn't exist early in the Universe? I guess my hope is that Phineas J. Whoopee and his three dimensional black board will some day come up with the math/explanation that looks a little less like cosmological snot smeared across the Universe. Please be gentle....

[@reidpatterson9949]

Neutrinos

[@DinorwicSongwriter]

I have calculated the mass and volume of dark matter.

[@TDBoedy]

Neptune was not dark it was undiscovered and you didn't need to make up the existence of a particle.

[@quantum_beeb]

For a physicist, this man is profoundly not curious lol. Many other more stimulating and interesting people out there on KZbin, folks. Even in lex’s catalog.

[@Hatrackman]

Space really isn't space.

[@jerry8405]

Whoa

[@glenwaldrop8166]

Dark Matter is real. I've seen it. It ran for three seasons. Good show.

[@iguesss]

Huge quantum structures collapse in the singularity that we call our universe. The remains are dark matter

[@armandoquintana2185]

Dark energy is just space time stretching.

[@RagingGeekazoid]

Decompressing. Like an explosion that hasn't finished yet.

[@rikib.3444]

"There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it's all dark." -Pink Floyd

[@juneshasta]

Gravitational lensing may prove that dark matter is comprised of the crappiest TV shows that broadcasted through the cosmos, thus the weak gravitational attraction.

[@mattknell351]

Maybe dark energy is in another dimension that we can’t see

[@andreaskarlsson6352]

No

[@RahRahh-vx1kv]

Running in circles!.. I c

[@goham5481]

Ready to defend your job, go.

[@mkhud50n]

nah

[@1964lovely]

Dump the Cult of bumping particles and embrace the Aether.

[@RagingGeekazoid]

Or even worse. Space as an emergent phenomenon. An infinite-dimensional (or non-spatial) world where what we call "proximity" is an interaction between the microprocessors that we currently call "particles" and whose behavior we call "quantum field theory".

[@coffee_drinker2912]

This will eventually be proven to be BS.

[@jackg2630]

It’s one of Einsteins equations. He’s been right about basically everything - I mean the guy predicted that we would detect gravitational waves in 100 years and exactly 100 years later we found them. Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t make it bs

[@coffee_drinker2912]

@@jackg2630 Okay. Well, since he is never ever wrong, it has to be right. Lol

[@iguesss]

Dark matter is just too big for our fermions. We are inside the singularity of a black hole for megastructures

[@DarwinianUniversal]

I know what it is. The cause of anomalous galaxy rotation velocity, that is. What do you think causes Time Dilation, an accelerated rate of atomic activity? The underlaying atomic forces that drive atomic activity are variable, variable atomic energy/force, thats what causes Time Dilation. Ok, add to this the mass/energy equivalence. Variable atomic energy results as variable mass, that is to say variable atomic mass. VAM variable atomic mass dependant upon gravities distance square law. The mathematical formula has been derived, and it alters the mass distribution within spiral galaxies. It fits, it works. And I guess you might be wondering why atomic mass should ve variable, what is the cause? We have that answer as well

[@DarwinianUniversal]

Its not caused by an invisible undiscovered particle. Rather, its a property of regular Baryon matter that has not been described. Time Dilation indicates a variable that extends to Atomic Mass. And there is your answer

[@paeporeckoner]

has Lex been engaging in some bare knuckle fights? noticed a little swelling on the ear...

[@RichSmithify]

Dark energy is an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together. Oh wait, that's Star Wars. Sorry, I seem to have gotten my mythologies mixed up.

[@ciaranlogue2310]

It's dark energy that they have no clue about.

[@farleytokley1739]

Dark matter is sound, this theory I expound.

[@Be_reasonable101]

He says quite confidently that dark matter is a particle. We don’t have any clue if that’s true or not.

[@semontreal6907]

He just made that up. You can't take this guy seriously anymore. Sorry

[@RagingGeekazoid]

We have tons of clues. We just don't have any corroborating data from particle accelerators. He says at 3:00 that MOND has been ruled out, so there's no reason not to at least consider a particle the best candidate.

[@semontreal6907]

@@RagingGeekazoid no you don't

[@imbass8151]

I would love to hear Eric Weinstien and Sean Carroll have a conversation on here! Make it happen, Lex!

[@garetclaborn]

If they didn't just throw softballs to each other, then this would be one of the most glorious discussions of this generation.

[@TheTyTyXD]

Sure are a lot of theoretical physicists in these comments If I hear another comment about “haha it’s just ether (arent I smart for knowing about the outdated ether model?). Why are scientists not taking our edutainment theories seriously? It has to be a beuracratic conspiracy.”

[@GershonBenYitzhak]

Dark matter exists or we don't fully understand gravity.

[@robotaholic]

Yes, it is real. We mathematically manipulate the lensing in equations. You can point at its effects.