Is Education a Right?

Yaron Brook from the Ayn Rand Institute says no, and Paul Vaaler from the University of Minnesota says yes in a 2015 debate hosted by the Snider Center for Enterprise and Markets at the University of Maryland's Robert H. Smith School of Business.

[@kirstamlew]

It amazes me that when someone speaks so reasonably as Yaron does, the others never say, "Hey, Yaron, thank you so much for educating me, you are right, I have changed my attitude to this now".

[@takkiejakkie5458]

Maybe it's because he's a dumb ideologue who bases his complete world view on some old narcissistic hag's writings who's ideas were never tested and would probably only amplify the economic problems we already have as the dogmas are even more extreme. Have you ever noticed a lot of Ayn Rand/Yaron Book fans are edgy teenagers or paid shills? Almost all working people grow out of objectivism or the idea that the market place is God for a reason.

[@lancehawk3179]

@@takkiejakkie5458 nice sarcasm

[@adrianbartholomew3785]

The argument is stopped at the Food analogy. There is no way that Education is more important than Food as a basic survival requirement. If Food cannot be a right, then neither can Education.

[@MrApplewine]

Yaron was right.

[@dunkleybwoy1]

I see what you did there lol

[@tnguyen9266]

Education is a privilege, not a right.

[@glock-hm3ro]

@jeep23862 oh boy...I was also so "privileged" to have to work 2 jobs in my hometown 50 miles from my university campus in Chicago, plus 2 jobs on campus, to PAY for MY OWN school, books, transportation, food, etc....yes, I was THAT privileged. I had to put in 36 hours between Friday night and Sunday night at my TWO hometown jobs. I also volunteered every day at the VA medical center....What a bullshit statement from you...explain how my "white privilege" helped ME PAY for my education...that's right it did not! It was the sweat of my brow and my WORK ETHIC that made me EARN that shit myself...not take a dime from anyone! WHITE PRIVILEGE MY ASS...you IGNORANT ASS!

[@micahwright5901]

jeep23862 You’re argument is that it should be accessible. That’s not a right, which should be provided, it’s a service, that the government should prevent others from infringing upon.

[@caioguidi3133]

Yaron Brook = LEGEND

[@scottminnella1880]

I wish Yaron would have talked more practically about what happens at many public schools. Where teachers are lazy but don't get fired. Where students are violent but don't get expelled. It's sad.

[@bwanasibu4240]

Thankyou Sir! I quite agree that education is a privilege not a right.

[@AtTheZebo]

Paul Vaaler speaks of "choice". In reality Govt does NOT allow true choice. Otherwise, why is it that Politicians are scared to death of the concept of School Vouchers?!! So, we are allowed to send our kids to private schools but we still have to pay extortion money (taxes) to the Govt schools. That is NOT choice. Nor is it competition. It is forced indoctrination.

[@joeregan63]

AtTheZebo you forget that wealthier people also fear them. For example: say you live in Lexington, MA (median household income $191;350 in 2013). You have it all, a $1m home, great public schools (that only you and your fellow residents have access to). Now go a few miles northeast and arrive in Woburn (median household income $54,897). Everything is much more average. Then one day, the state passes a law that students aren't geographically bound to a public school, and can use vouchers to attend whatever school will have them (with the biggest deciding factor of school being past student performance, not zip code). Suddenly, why would you spend all that money to live in Lexington, when your kid can still attend that school and you live in Woburn? So the "normal wealthy" are incentivized to be complicit in the status quo, to maintain their social prestige and help preserve their community's price point. The biggest beneficiaries of a voucher system would be poorer, but high achieving students. Aka the exact kids liberals always claim to want to help. But when it's their neck on the line, they suddenly get a lot less generous.

[@davidblankenau]

Will you make the entire debate available soon? I'm fascinated by this!

[@science212]

Education, hospital, houses, etc. All of these must to be private.

[@gavinschuette9826]

private school as it exists now is expensive because of gov regulation and are nothing like free market....government takes out choice......and governmetn regulation destroys everything

[@Mensetcor]

So, quoting Ayn Rand on rights - "Rights are existential conditions required by human nature for his survival." As a rational animals, human being are born without automatic means for survival an thus must be let unimpeded to apply his ideas on nature to actively implementing the conditions for his survival and earn the results of his actions. Thus, rights are fundamentally sanctions to the exercise of life-serving actions AND its direct produce - not, particularly, the particular products resulting from it. Derived from this, there can be no right to a good depended unilaterally upon the impediment or expropriation of the produce of anyone's life-serving actions. And its morally wrong because predation of another's life-serving work is not substitute for ones inescapable necessity for the exercise of productive action.

[@chrisknorr1326]

Yaron is principled in his conception of rights. The other guy... not so much, eloquently spouting a lot of lofty ideals without a shred of principled guidance for what might actually constitute the promotion of the social welfare. I think all that is meant by government promoting the social welfare is that it may use force objectively and justly to protect individuals' liberty. Government should not be using force to mandate how education is provided to society. I love the end of Atlas Shrugged when Judge Narragansett revises the American constitution to include "Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of production and trade." Education would certainly fall under a service provided through trade--an exchange of labor for money.

[@MrMJpilot]

Yaron was right. Everything government takes over and that takeover is a monopoly whether they want to admit it or not, becomes an utter failure. Government has no incentive to control cost, to innovate, or to change with public demand. It’s a nice political football for politicians though and that’s all that matters to them.

[@wtficantgetausername]

sound premises

[@ariana4819]

Why is it that if kids don’t go to school they get in trouble

[@username5502]

Education is not a right, it is an obligation as children are forced into it.

[@michaelkatz9918]

There is one way to win this debate. Have the two sides fight each other.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

Yeah there is.

[@leowang8961]

Yaron was right but he just educated me on whether or not education was a right

[@ninjashidan]

I like the idea of competition and choice. What will happen to those who can't afford education at all? Should there be some safety net?

[@Jazzper79]

Remember that in laissez-faire capitalism, there is no break-down of the economy, there is always jobs to get. And people will be more responsible as they are not provided funds by the government. What business wants, is to create great products for everyone and not leave out the poor. So the market WILL find a way!

[@Mr.Witness]

I find this annoyingly stupid ... how do you think freed slaves did it?

[@yoonjeongsoo9378]

plenty of private schools provide merit or need based scholarships

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

If they can’t afford education that’s on them, not saying absolutely nobody should help them but they’re not entitled to people helping them.

[@gysteel6650]

If education (basic or otherwise) was a right, then it’d be free. Its not

[@katzhunter4473]

GMan Steel well, if that’s the case there be no 2nd amendment. Guns are expensive 💰

[@endriu55]

whaat? there's no correlation here

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

Neither is healthcare.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

@@katzhunter4473 guns are right in the sense of the constitution protects them explicitly, and those station prohibit you from being able to purchase a gun, you don’t have the right to be provided a gun or for someone else to have to buy you it, do you have the right to be able to purchase it.

[@michaelkatz9918]

Who are the people that made education not a right. And then made it illegal to protest. Made protesting a crime to get arrested for? College teaches to take away rights and to make protesting a crime and to arrest people who protest.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

The founding fathers, you have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, you have the right to pursue happiness, pursue what you see as fit for your life, within our laws and restrictions, you have a right to action not a right to be rewarded, if you have a right to education then you should just be able to go into a Barnes & Noble and just take books from off the shelf, if you have a right to education that means you have a right to somebody’s time and resources, and if you have a right to somebody’s time an resources, that means they don’t have rights, and they become your rightless slaves.

[@kellyeeles8384]

Isn't the objectivist view basically " you don't have a right to other people's thoughts and knowledge " on this matter

[@trevormillin506]

Not necessarily. It depends on the usage of such intellectual material.

[@BladeOfLight16]

Education is easier. You don't have a right to someone else's time and effort.

[@michaelkatz9918]

What happens when someone is charged with a crime simply because they said education is a right.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

Yeah that’s a strawman, if somebody wants to give you free education they have every right to do so, but if you demand that they give you free education and they give you their time and resources, that is what’s wrong.

[@michaelkatz9918]

People who say education is not a right. They think they have a right to make that claim while denying the right of any opposing view to disagree.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

That’s not true, you obviously don’t understand the position if that’s what you’re saying.

[@thecurious926]

Yeah thats a different right, free speech. Where's the denying part? The other guy spoke

[@michaelkatz9918]

Never mind debating the issue. I protest education is a right. Protesting is a crime. I get arrested.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

Again who is saying that you should be arrested who, you’re entitled to free speech even if what you wanna protest is wrong you still have the right to do it, how is educational a right I want you to tell me.

[@ariana4819]

Listen to me school isn’t necessary school isn’t a privilege or a right school is a factory that make us be in there for 8 hours raise our hand to speak and eat for 15 minutes and 10 minutes for a break. School make us all Learn the same thing when we all need to learn different things. School and education are completely different. Education is what we need to know for the future. School is a place where you sit they tell you things you have to have stuck in your head for a test then forget it right when you get out of that classroom. We need to change our schools well I’m saying that because they haven’t changed in the last 100 centuries. So all I’m saying is that school isn’t that important education is important but the way we teach education is so unreliable and shouldn’t be trusted to do it job. Cause obviously it isn’t doing it job.

[@mateomaher1820]

We're talking about education...school is quite a different thing.

[@yc__]

food is no right? so i have the right to let you starve?

[@chrisknorr1326]

hahaha This! This is the whole point of objectivism summed up in one question... Yes, you have that right. If my hunger were a valid moral claim on the product of your effort, I'd claim it forever (along with everyone else on Earth). You'd forever be a sacrificial being, sentenced to provide for the NEED of others simply for being capable. As a free person you MAY feed me at your discretion according to your benevolence, but you are certainly not morally obliged to. My advice---go read Atlas Shrugged.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

Yeah exactly.

[@sortehuse]

It just make sense to make Education a Right. If not you will end up with a lots poor uneducated children who will be very few ways of providing for themself when they grow up. They will have very few chances in life ... any way, because they where born into poverty. It will not be good for society either, because they can't hold they jobs we need people to do in order to make society work and many of them will probably turn to crime - so the crime rates will go up, which helps no-one.

[@mosesking2923]

A. It's not my responsibility to pay for someone else's product. `My responsibility is to my family only. Not you, I don't care about you and I shouldn't be forced to pay for you. B. Free markets allow for competition and also SPECIALIZATION. There will be cheaper private schools that are oriented towards low income people in the same way that the food industry has McDonald's. Cut taxes, give people more $ in their own pocket, and let them decide what's best for their family. THAT is freedom.

[@takkiejakkie5458]

fReE mArKeT = sOluTiOn To eVeRyThInG, y'All! You're not seeing how dependent businesses and quality of life are on state infrastructure, rights, regulation, education and all other types of "government" to even be able to exist and work efficiently. Think before you adopt an oh so edgy economic world view.

[@cyberedge881]

@Takkie Jakkie You made a few bare assertions that happen to be untrue. The first is that government must provide infrastructure. This can and often is provided by competition in the free market.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

That’s not the responsibility of other people, it’s the parents responsibility of those children to provide for them and to give them education, not other people you are not entitled to somebody else’s resources and you are not entitled to somebody else’s time, if the person wants to give you free education and he wants to give you his time and resources then that’s perfectly fine, but you were not entitled to anything from anybody, unless they are your parents of course.

[@sortehuse]

@@pleaseenteraname1103 and if the parents don't live up to their responsibility?

[@diannaskare7829]

NO? HOW MUCH DID IT COST YOU?? 45 YEARS AGO IT WAS FREE OR NEARLY FREE! WHAT *A HYPOCRITE!!* IT WAS SEEN AS AN INVESTMENT INTO AMERICA'S FUTURE! AND LOOK AT THE GROWTH THROUGH THE 50s to now after Reaganomics destroyed the process?! MOST COUNTRIES ARE FREE OR NEARLY FREE..WHERE DID HE GO TO COLLEGE??

[@vancouveride]

It may not be a right but the state has a interest in public education. Maybe the government doesn't need to operate the schools but it needs to finance it so that all children receive it and so that certain pro-nation messages are taught. Otherwise how do you create a unified culture when everyone stays in their silos?

[@endriu55]

exactly

[@michaelkatz9918]

I interpret the Constitution. The Constitution gives me the right to interpret the Constitution. I have the right to interpret the Constitution. Are they saying I don't have the right to interpret the Constitution? I do have the right to interpret the Constitution. Education is a Constitutional right. My interpretation of the Constitution is right. We cannot agree to disagree on the interpretation of the Constitution. Education is a right. I have a right to protest. They are saying I don't even have a right to protest. I will fight for the right to protest. I will fight to be right that my interpretation of the Constitution is right. I will fight for the right to education.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

Nobody is saying this, and you’re not entitled to your own opinion and you’re entitled to your own informed opinion,So no eucalyptus interpret the Constitution absolutely however you want, I mean you’re allowed to there’s no legal percussions or anything, and how did you come to the conclusion that education is a constitutional right, you didn’t give any specific examples or explain how, you just said oh well according to my completely subjective interpretation it is a right. Nobody is saying you don’t have the right to protest, nobody in the objectivist movement is saying that, they’re simply saying you can’t impose your morality on other people, you are absolutely allowed to protest and stand up for your views, where the hell are you doing this from.

[@michaelkatz9918]

The right to protest. I am denied my right to protest. I get arrested for protesting. I protest for education rights. I get arrested. That's how evil those people are. Those people arrest me for protesting. I speak education is a right. That is my first amendment right. I say education is a right. I get arrested for saying education is a right.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

What the hell you talking about, oh my gosh no, nobody’s talking about arresting anybody or punishing anybody for merely believing something, it’s when you want to impose that view on others, education is not right neither is healthcare.

[@MRiitta]

Finland sees education as a civil right and a public service, not as a commodity.

[@michaelkatz9918]

If I am free to pursue anything I want. I am free to do any fucking thing I want to do without any fucking bullshit college degree.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

Who is saying you aren’t exactly?

[@davidmarine558]

We have a "right" to farm our food, Yaron? Where do I have a "right" to do that? On what land?

[@mosesking2923]

On land that you buy with you own money, with your own tools and seeds that you own. You don't get to have the right to take my land, nor do you have the right to take my money to buy your tools. Not that difficult to understand.

[@davidmarine558]

Non-responsive. I refer you back to Yaron's statement.

[@mosesking2923]

You don't have a right to my money or property. That's as simple as I can put for you.

[@davidmarine558]

It's certainly simple. It remains non-responsive.

[@davemckagan635]

Yaron enjoyed a quality public education while he was growing up in Israel, which benefitted him enormously. What a hypocrite.

[@mh_golfer]

That is a terrible argument and just proves his point he had no other options but the gov provided curriculum. You clearly don't know what a right is. Actual rights don't take things from others free speech, guns, freedom of religion and assembly, etc.. None of those require taking something from other people.

[@DanteTheSimpSlayer]

he was forced into public education. his parents were forced to pay for his public education. how much choice do you have when you're a kid when it comes to arguing against your parents?

[@BuyTheDip627]

Mike Camire I agree with everything you've said except one thing: there is no such thing as "freedom of religion." It's just free speech, and that's it. Stop making it seem as if piety is important.

[@GeorgWilde]

He didn't have choice you moron. Oh, you judge people by things that they had no choice in. You moron :D

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

How does this make him a hypocrite, he’s saying that education is not a right and he was well educated therefore he’s a hypocrite, what would make him a hypocrite is if he was demanding other people to have to pay for his education, and you being a child is different because your parents or whoever is taking care of you does have to support you and make sure that you have an education.

[@gavinschuette9826]

yaron despite giving ususry a pass is the best speaker on youtube......I rarely disagree with him

[@gavinschuette9826]

630 government is force...not a marketplace......a market is FREE trade not government regulatory maze......this guy knows no economics yet holds a chair of economics at a university...wow scary

[@gavinschuette9826]

education is overrated, end tax money to universiteis, and end public school, no wonder home schooled kids are dominantly smart

[@gavinschuette9826]

150 universities are the enemy........no this country was no about free education.....that is not in the constitution and is not as old as the republic itself.............where do people get this idea? property is civilization, capitalism ended slavery

[@gavinschuette9826]

145 thsi lawyer is fulla shit, and democray is facism, usa is a republic at worst and really is a fascist ethnostate liek romce carthage greece phonecia japan israel and now hi ho china....hans-hermann hoppe is right when he says that if we had kept classic monarchies of 1800s we would be infinitely richer now

[@gavinschuette9826]

630 holy shti thsi is a scary tax parasite democrat fascsit.......he doesn't understand at a basic level that a market is when government is not involved....government isn't aplayer in a market what the fuck ban private law firms and replace lawyers with software......tax parasite democrat fascists the lot making everyone poor

[@gavinschuette9826]

despite my fears that objectivism is jus a ploy to derail white gang politics vs jewish gang politics yaron is one of the few speakers I can stomache on the net capitalism without israel seems near perfect the big problem is banking and usury......why do we have the dumb commy 130 speak? can we cut his bs and just hear yaron here? no one wants to listen to a tax parasite democrat fascist lawyer

[@gavinschuette9826]

645 there is no such thing as private education all private schools and univeristeis are controlled by government......this guy is a crackhead!!!!! cahrter schools are government regulated!!! all control by government!!!! this guy is a total bullshit artist and tries to confuse people......government is nto aprt of a marketplace!!! most fo the good from a marketplace is from the ability to ignore government idiots who fuck everything up....another good thing about free markets is shitheads suffer and can be ignored or deported