Is Elmer's White Glue Suitable for Bookbinding? // Adventures in Bookbinding

[@sahafiandisheh1746]

You are an honorable bookbinder and I will always follow you. I am in Iran . Thank you for the binding tutorials

[@DASBookbinding]

Thank you. It is wonderful to hear from you. Darryn

[@skeletonkeybindery3936]

Just to throw another complication, there's Elmer's School Glue and Elmer's Glue-All. I've used the Glue-All and have seen it suggested by authors such as Manly Banister in his The Craft of Bookbinding. There's an absolute difference between the two products, with the Glue-All behaving like you'd expect from a PVA.

[@DASBookbinding]

I think I mention I wouldn't use the Glue-All. The MSDS is readily available and it is quite acidic, more so than the white glue. It's up to you. I think we forget leather is acidic too. Wow, Glue-All has been around that long? And another reason to dislike Banister. DAS

[@samiaislammuna7314]

​@@DASBookbindingeeq

[@Chiberia]

it has to do with the fact that Glue All has significantly more PVA, from what I understand - which would also explain the pH. PVA, naturally, degrades into acetic acid upon exposure to moisture - that's how "school glue" is washable.

[@reevrob]

Great video. I use Elmer's Wood Glue. Works great in so many things too. Only thing I dislike about it is it comes in cream/yellow.

[@DASBookbinding]

You should avoid wood glue. It’s designed for wood not paper. It is nearly always acidic which matches the acidity of wood.

[@mizzourita3896]

Your videos are what got me into book binding, I've used Elmer's glue to do the covers of my books but I use a stronger pva glue for the spine on my text blocks, i made my first book two years ago and it was a sort of journal where I dyed all the pages with walnut dye before sewing the text block together and I've been using it ever since and the cover is still fastened and strong, the video you made showing how to rebind a paperback into a hardcover was a lifesaver! I have so many books that I have converted to hardcovers and they've all been done with Elmer's glue and some pva but they've all held up fine but I take very good care of my books so I don't know if they would withstand humidity or intense handling but either way I really enjoy your videos so thank you!

[@simplereflectionofchristianity]

Thanks for this video I have been thinking of using the product because I can get it by the gallon at lowes a lumber store here in the US but I will continue to you PVA based on this video thanks again

[@benlin1526]

Wonderful video, I have an old paper pack from 1982 and would hate be reading it one day and find the glue could have been better rather than just good enough. I also loved the background music. Take care

[@traceyalexander7720]

Thanks for this. I teach box making and fabric covered boxes in NZ. Initially I gave my students PVA glue, but some of them were so heavy handed with it that the boxes quickly became soggy, and the fabric just wouldn't stick when folding in the corners. I now use Selleys Aquadhere Quick Set - it's just perfect, nice and tacky and dries quickly. Its made in Australia. Looking for a cheaper alternative, I am trialling Gorilla Aliphatic Pva which again is nice and tacky, dries quickly but dries yellow. I tried Elmers and found it too wet.

[@Agben35]

Appreciate you testing and giving the review. I had questions myself.

[@daveturnbull7221]

Just watched all three adhesives videos Darryn (been suffering from internet loss followed by total power loss so had loads of catching up to do). As others have commented I'm really impressed by not only your depth of knowledge but also the amount of it you manage to cram into your videos. I started my bookbinding with the idea of just making some really basic notebooks for personal use and I used what I had available (bulk builders PVA designed for slapping on walls to seal them). It did the job I needed it to but as I got more interested in the subject and read/watched more on it I came up with the idea that I'd like to make a huge leather bound book in a sort of medieval style. I bought some Jin Shofu wheat starch and a tub of EVA from Sheppards since I'd quickly learned that the PVA wasn't suitable if I wanted something that would last. So far I've failed with the paste (I burn water when making a cup of tea) but the EVA is a joy to use.

[@DASBookbinding]

Dave, after I do my next paste video I guantee you'll be able to make paste.

[@daveturnbull7221]

@@DASBookbinding Given my track record with anything involving cooking I won't hold you strictly to that Darryn but I do really look forward to it as usual and will most certainly ty it a few times.

[@Altr_]

Thank you for your videos. Over the years I have became addicted to them and almost every day I am checking if there is a new share. I have an idea that I'd like to share. How about making some serials that what kind of mistakes can be done or some procedure that is not followed properly to demonstrate what is the outcome. I mean failure episodes! In that way people like me can give attention to special details observing the catastrophic result that this mistake will result in. Thanks and merry Christmas.

[@DASBookbinding]

I'm not sure I like the idea of a "catastrophic" failure. I do show many of the small issues that arise while binding. It would be very rare for me to have major issues as I build up to things. The biggest issue I've had was when I cased a book in upside down in one of the videos. I just edited it so no one knew. I guess I could have shown how later I cut the book out of the binding, removed the endpapers and made a new case and endpapers. But I am human and that was embarrassing. I'll keep showing the little issues and keep the other idea in mind. Merry Christmas. Darryn

[@PauloNeuenschwander]

Hi! Nice experiment! I agree with you about if you're just starting just use whatever you have in hand. And then you can get fancy. One example is the DYI press you though us how to do. Just like to point that I really like the academic approach you use in your tests! BR Paulo

[@MoniqueAO888]

Very intersting !!! Thanks for sharing 🙂

[@Javaman92]

Wow you really put the glue through it. Very well done.

[@kodihunt5997]

Very nice that was cool to see. The first couple books i used elmers on seem to hold up well for now. We'll see in the future how well they do. Definitely will get some better glue for future books though. Thanks!

[@69Buddha]

Very interesting -- thanks for doing that experiment! That was a crazy price for it, but I have no idea how much it is in US dollary-doos now either. I find it fascinating that a professional bookbinding glue in bulk costs less, which is counterintuitive to that whole "Elmer's is a cheap way to start out" trope you hear all the time.

[@DASBookbinding]

But you can get Elmer's at the local shop. You need to buy a few things from a bookbinding supplier to spread the postage cost out.

[@CaptDrake6969]

Here in the US I could pick up a bottle that size at the shop for about 1 dollar. Right at the end of the "back to school" season it'll be half that price. I would guess that is why so many people here are keen on using it.

[@madamsloth]

Thanks for the experiment!

[@coltcain482]

Thank you for taking the time to do this test. I started a bookbinding course at school this term but the only art store near by that carries an appropriate book binding Pva has been sold out for months and the Canadian online stores will not ship any glue because of the cold. I’m always searching for something I could find in stores that my classmates and I can use in the mean time. Currently I have been using weldbond but I find it difficult to work with as a newbie because of how thick it is and how quickly it tacks

[@alvenhchanne]

I remember reading somewhere that Elmer's PVA based white glues are acidic when wet, but turns neutral when completely dry.

[@DASBookbinding]

Life is never that simple. Of course water is a significant source of hydroxide ions. Once the water content changes the pH will change. But air contains water and the paper will always have some moisture content. As I think I said, once you get a bit more serious about bookbinding, move on to a better adhesive. They're not hard to get.

[@Phoenix-the-Poet]

i really appreciate this! Thank you!

[@_wanderingrocks_]

It would be interesting to see a long term evaluation. The problem I’ve always had with elmers is that is get much more brittle over time than bookbinders PVA which stays flexible. I don’t think the test you did here allowed for enough time for the glue to fully cure. Elmers will also yellow over time. But this knowledge is all based on using elmers in my first bindings over twenty years ago. They may have changed the recipe since then.

[@DASBookbinding]

No point doing long term tests for a product that changes. Besides, just use something that has been tested. DAS

[@tildessmoo]

Very interesting to see an experienced binder use Elmer's. Your final thoughts pretty much reflect my amateur opinion (that it's fine for starting out if you've already got it on hand, but the slow tacking and uncertain pH and expense vs. quality glue in bulk make it a no-go for a long-term hobby). It was very interesting to find out that you think it's a mix; I'd thought that the thin film when it dried was due to it being somewhat watered down to sell more product at a lower expense, but I have relatively little experience outside of Elmer's, wood glue, and recently moving to a bookbinding PVA.

[@chuckporter8315]

I would agree with this. I don't have any proof, but I tend to use the partially dried Elmer's glue in my tubs (whatever is leftover from my last project) for lining the spine and other parts where Hollander's manual calls for "PVA Thick," and it behaves more like the thick yogurt as he describes rather than the very thin coat he got (and I also see when I don't have any of the thickened stuff leading me to believe it might just be watered down.

[@ChristopherCobra]

Great Video. I wonder what the long-term hold up will be like.

[@DASBookbinding]

I'm sure it will out last us. But I sort of want my books to outlast my grandkids:) DAS

[@TrailBlazer5280]

Thank you so much for doing these tests. I've been wondering for a long time how it compares side by side. I've used Elmer's for minor binding projects simply because it's available to me, on a budget its one less item to buy at the supply store. I was expecting worse performance especially in the spine, you really did a lot of folding and rough handling but it survived the test. Thats more than i would hope for in a first time project you know what i mean. all things considered it seems like a great intro product, like the beginner version where one day you'll upgrade to the real stuff.

[@nashvillain171]

I love your experiments!!

[@icegoddess1308]

Elmer’s also has Craft Bond glue, which has been suggested for book, cause we can’t have enough

[@DASBookbinding]

Not another one!!

[@rap3208]

@@DASBookbinding lol! Yeah, Ive tried that Elmer Craft bond glue to bind comic books and it seemed and felt like the PVA glue I order from a bookbinding supplies online store. The properties (body, doesn't mix with water as easily because sometimes I water the glue down for some uses, etc.) are not as good as the bookbinding PVA glue but it's good enough for small projects.

[@ravennoxia]

I use clear liquid Pritt Acacia glue because I can't find methyl cellulose anywhere. Opinions? I do paperback to hardback conversions mostly. The glue has a slip and dries slow enough for repositioning. It can be cleaned with warm water.

[@DASBookbinding]

I knew someone would surprise me with an adhesive I've never heard of before! No idea:) DAS

[@pam6789]

Thank you! Very helpful!!

[@johnmitchelljr]

Thank you.

[@cb-nz]

Any chance you could do a similar dive into the Aussie made Helmar glues as they would be readily available there and in NZ. They have Professioanl Acid free glue of unknown ingredients and an EVA of similar unknown ingredients and ph. While you are at it dig into Kmart anko fabric glue, looks like an EVA but of unknown provenance and quality, might be fun....😂. Getting decent EVA and methyl cellulose locally in NZ is limited and overseas shipping is currently nasty making supplies worse.

[@jojojo8835]

Beware- the letters P, V, and A don’t ALWAYS stand for poly, vinyl, and acetate these days😱🙄. Eg. poly-vinyl-alcohol. 20 yrs ago it did, but now most of the craft and kids glue out there are ❤ ‘washable’, and not always labelled as such. Meaning can be reversed with water as the solvent even after fully drying. That turned out to be a big problem for my watercolour sketchbook!😂

[@SJ-dl6uc]

it's the other way around. polyvinyl acetate is actually PVAc, not PVA. in chemistry nomenclature PVA means polyvinyl alcohol. chemistry has a lexicon, a language and grammar. that's why the "c" is small. the syntax also matters. cheers

[@VoidHybrid]

Firstly, where do you get that beautiful wooden clamp you used in the video when gluing the spine? Secondly, I'm rebinding my old bible and only have Elmer's and Wood glue at home. I came looking to see if the type of glue mattered for different materials. Like leather to leather, leather to paper, paper to paper (specifically with book binding) Thirdly, when cutting the cover in the video, what was the paper/board you wrapped that piece of cover around? I assume I should get some of that as well as a PVA glue if I'm replacing an over-a-decade old bible cover.

[@DASBookbinding]

I have an introduction to bookbinding adhesive video. Don’t use wood glue. Elmers isn’t the best either but better than wood glue. A PVA designed for use with paper is best. Get from your local office supply store

[@DASBookbinding]

I don’t remember which press I used in this video. It might have been from Schmedt in Germany ( great value for money press) or one made by Frank Wiesner (no longer with us)

[@charlesrouse5503]

Elmer's actually started out as a milk based glue, most of there line is now synthetic pva based, some of there line like school naturals are corn based

[@DASBookbinding]

Thanks, very interesting.

[@BigMtnDecals]

I saw somewhere Elmer’s is not PVA strict glue but only pva based. I haven’t done the research yet as what the difference is between those two

[@DASBookbinding]

If it really important to you, then use another adhesive that you what it is, such as Jade PVA or EVA in the US. Elmer's will never tell you exactly what type of adhesive is in it. And it seems to change regularly.

[@renownedbandanawearer1345]

As someone who always checks out the craft sections/stores when I find them, it’s been my experience that Elmer’s seems to be more interested in branding themselves as the best glue to use in slime making than as any kind of serious adhesive these days (not that I have anything against slime). It doesn’t surprise me that they don’t care to be open about the ingredients in their glues.

[@elizabethd7250]

The major difference, I've found, is rounding the spine when you've used Elmer's is nearly impossible. It doesn't have the give and flexibility that PVA does that's so critical for this step.

[@asailijhijr]

You might find MSDS or other chemical information about Elmer's if you ask a hospital or school nurse. I imagine that sickness following glue ingestion is adequately investigated.

[@DASBookbinding]

You would think so. Every school supplies company I checked provide an MSDS for a similar product, but not this exact product, or an old one, and I'm sure the product has changed over time. I assume no one gets sick from it and it hasn't;t been an issue.

[@nneedler]

I very much appreciate this and your other videos. Question: I’m creating a journal for drawing (with micro pens, permanent and graphite.) I’ll use a nice Bee deluxe paper from art store for the signatures and I want to use a malleable canvas for front and back cover - a folio on either side of the combined signatures (gee I hope I said that right.). Anyway, my question, do you know if PVA glue would work to adhere the folios so that the front (and back) would then act as a one ‘page” cover?

[@DASBookbinding]

I think your questions is really about structure. PVA will stick all paper/board/card together. Maybe have a look at the videos on Sewn-Board Binding. Good luck. DAS

[@gamersruin]

Which adhesive would you use when attaching leather to wood, like those gorgeous medieval-inspired books by Jim Croft? I think someone told me that he uses pitch, but that just doesn't sound right to me.

[@DASBookbinding]

I'm sure he doesn't use pitch. Where do these things come from! Wheat flour paste. There was very little adhesive in early medieval books, and studies have found residue of flour paste while later medieval might use animal protein adhesives and/or flour paste. DAS

[@gamersruin]

@@DASBookbinding You're the best. Yeah, pitch sounded way off the mark. Happy Holidays from the US!

[@satyajeetdighe1579]

Can you compare - lineco, talas, brodart, books by hand PVA glues.

[@DASBookbinding]

Brodart and Lineco are acceptable PVA for home bookbinders. They are strong flexible adhesives that tack quickly. This makes them easy to use. They are more aimed at repair work in circulating libraries. Talas have a much wider range of adhesives aimed at much more specific types of works. So you can get a reversible PVA (aka EVA) that might get used in conservation work, or a thicker faster tacking PVA that might get used in a commercial bindery for speed. The standard Jade 403 is great all-round PVA for home binderies. And you can get it in larger quantities which makes it much cheaper than Brodart etc. But get it before winter arrives and shipping of PVA stops. PVA is ruined if it freezes.

[@dcon1023]

just a question. I am going to remove a cheap cover from a bible and put on a leather cover. Do i have to use contact cement , pva or would titebond woodglue work to attach the outside block paper to the leather? Not sure where I would find bookbinders glue...maybe on amazon. Just asking for your thoughts. Thank you

[@DASBookbinding]

Don't use wood glue. It is acid by design and not good for paper. Just get a PVA from an office works store. These are designed for craft and paper, usually. I'm not a fan of contact cement either. For bookbinding adhesives, Talas in NY is the place to buy from. Easy to use website. Thick Jade is probably what you want. I'm assuming you are in the US, and the main problem is they don't ship PVA in the winter because it is ruined if it freezes. Good luck!

[@dcon1023]

@@DASBookbinding Thank you, I found some pva sold at a crafts store ( Michaels) that I will try. again thanks

[@stephenrobb8759]

It's in my mind that the school glues are intended to wash out of a child's clothing in a normal laundry process.

[@DASBookbinding]

Yes, they say washable. It is always a bit of question with craft glue as to whether they mean while still wet or after drying. In this case it reactivates easily after drying.

[@vadimmanevich3751]

I'm pretty sure it is not good at all. Too much water. I used it for my first binding.

[@justinbeck9871]

On my recent project I just barely ran out of decent PVA I’d bought and had to use some Elmer’s to finish up and this is the most notable difference I found as well.

[@DASBookbinding]

As I said, like fat free yogurt. What's the point! DAS

[@Miranda.Powers]

Do you think it would be good for paste papers?

[@DASBookbinding]

No. I wouldn't use a synthetic adhesive for pastepaper. Too sticky:)

[@detectivesanto2953]

Ve~~~~ry interesting

[@kipter]

Eight dollars???! They cost 50 cents at walmart

[@DASBookbinding]

12 hour flight to the nearest Walmart.

[@-----REDACTED-----]

Given Elmer’s is specifically designated as a school glue I reckon it is probably highly, highly diluted pva

[@DASBookbinding]

But the big question is what is it diluted with? Not water, it some sort of paste like adhesive, as I guess at in the video.

[@dtpostel]

❤👍👍👍

[@artmanstudios7037]

Let's face it Elmer's glue is made for kids. You're not going to get very far with this!

[@DASBookbinding]

And yet I get asked about it over and over and over again.

[@artmanstudios7037]

@@DASBookbinding yeah I know, Kids!😌

[@SirWhiteRabbit-gr5so]

I have the suspicion that Elmer's today is weaker and less-suitable than it was 50- years ago than when I was in elementary and middle school...all in the name of children's "safety".

[@enkay9749]

First

[@neofliermike]

Lucky! Or... are you different and better than everyone else?

[@enkay9749]

@@neofliermike Y not, all of the above?