The Surprising State of Flesh and Blood: Healthy or Fading?

[@atmosph3r377]

The biggest problem for fab is that it is literally impossible to play casually. CC is the main format, everybody is hypercompetetive and attendance (atleast for my lgs) is the same 4 guys practising for nationals etc. every new player just gets stomped by full legendary equipment and people that literally breathe this game which is why we didn’t have any new players that stick around for more than two weeks

[@ScowlingFleshBag]

That is a real issue and a point I have experienced myself and heard from many others. I think the players that are competing for big events need to realise they represent the community and if they don't make it a good experience for incoming players, eventually their game will go away due to a lack of players sticking around.

[@stigmurder99]

When we have new people at my armory I switch to non legendary equipment and and won't go as hard as normal. Plus you gotta make sure to show them how gorgeous cold foils are! 😆

[@TheCrazyhorse88]

This exact thing happened to me recently. I came with a moderately upgraded precon knowing that I will probably lose all my games anyway as I am pretty new to the game but I got totally and utterly giga-stomped by guys who seemed like total pros super-invested in the game. However, I have to admit that everyone was super friendly and helpful and that made the evening a bit better even though I got my ass handed to me every game. I get a feeling that without me shelling out for these majestics/legendaries I am doomed to 0-4 every armory.

[@thanatos8412]

No, the problem is that casuals don't regularly attend armories and events (even if they say they will) so if you try to constantly accommodate them the invested players won't have as much fun and stop attending and, it turns out, the casual players weren't going to attend or care anyway.

[@mrob0989]

@@thanatos8412I’ve always thought pandering to casuals is a bad idea for FAB. LSS built their brand on being competitive and that’s why me and many other players are drawn in and stick around. I’m not saying you can’t have a casual fan base but I want LSS to keep being the Diamond in the rough that refuses to cater to people who would never show up to any armory or event. There is a reason you’ll never find Fab at Walmart or Target. They know their target audience.

[@cappadocius9379]

I love FAB but if they don't figure out more casual play the game will continue to slowly die off. I don't know if it's PVE or more casual formats but we have to bring in the casual players.

[@ignaciorodriguezvillasuso7507]

Great video! I think the game still has a lot of growth potential on Latin America, since most of the countries of the regions still do not have official support. I'm from Argentina, and im 100% sure that not being official is keeping the game from really picking up speed. I went to the BH in Brazil, and if other countries of the region get half the community you got there (150 for a BH is INSANE), the number of players should skyrocket. Rumors say that the game should be expanding next year to many countries of Latin America, so lets see what happens then!

[@ScowlingFleshBag]

I really hope the LATAM expansion is around the corner. I see so many passionate players from that region. You deserve to get officical support!

[@ftgrimm1016]

I got news, the game should be here in México at the start of october with oficial distribution (the Company is Devir Mexico), stores are starting to register with GEM Accounts. I will confirm what Ignacio is saying, without Official support nobody wanted to carry the game, after the announce everything seems to be changing. I ask many owners before why and to them no official support after almost 5 years make them feel like the game was not doing good to reach LATAM, the second point was not strong enough IP, nobody would know what FAB is by just look at the product. Lets see how things change, we are around 6-8 players for the last year, with the official support lets see how we do.

[@FaB-Bear]

We have a local store that works hard at developing a casual community and we have solid attendance and frequent new players. If your local sweatlords are an issue, talk to them. Spend some time making sure people feel welcome and stop treating armories as mini calling events.

[@Nightflux_Hobbies]

There needs to be more Commoner/Clash events at Callings/BH to grow the casual scene or its just gonna stay hypercompetitive. As it stands this is NOT a casual game

[@robbem1230]

Get outta here with this Clash BS Nightflux.. and I’m kinda disappointed ya never told me about ScowlingFleshbag here.. just found out about this channel… IM HOOKED!!!! BRUTE LIFE BABY!!!!

[@Nathaniel_theClashGuy]

We run clash on a separate night. It draws a few players but its still the same players that show up for armory.

[@cptnsirbiznatch]

I think one thing the game is struggling with is getting a more casual player base… They need to figure out PVE, and I think that will attract a whole new crowd and be very very good for the game

[@patrickweiss5063]

I used to drive to 5 armories a week. They killed that for me when they kaboshed XP meaning anything.

[@thanatos8412]

The game certainly feels like it's dying in my state (USA) with attendance to all sanctioned events down statewide and entire cities dropping all support of the game. That being said, the decline seems to have been arrested recently with new players showing up to my armory, and more casual players have started turning back up every so often. In addition to that, random gamers at my LGS recognized the game we were playing because of the booth they had at Gen Con in Indianapolis. While it's nothing like the boom it experienced in Monarch/Tales of Aria days, it's probably a healthier growth and recognition phase of the IP and game.

[@williambooker2752]

What you said at the end of the video is key. The way LSS see FAB is crucial to its growth. FAB needs to develop casual play, and the best way to achieve that is to create new products based on their IP, be it movies, comics, series, video games and so on... FAB is not MTG or Pokemon, I do not believe we will ever see kids trading FAB cards during breaks in school playgrounds. However, creating new products based on the IP is a great way for people to discover the game and develop casual play.

[@unknowncrash1]

My brother & I got in to FaB around tales of Aria release, bought the blitz decks and also made our CC decks (thinking they would stay for a while since this is the latest set). No sooner a few months after we finalize our decks (ordering online and waiting because of low supply and singles availability) announcement of our heroes were expected to go into living legend, straight up lost interest. Oh, all that talk about PvE stuff never really took off that well locally. Love the art, love the mechanics, just not how they handle support & all the constantly rotating stuff 24/7, makes the unlimited print run thing just another marketing gimmick, got in because. In that case, I may as well stick to MTG (which we were trying to move on from due to the crazy power creep). I love niche games, but FaB is hard to grow attached to with the format of cards going out of 'rotation use' once the heroes go into LL. I get it, there should be a standard format, in fact I welcome it, just that there is no secondary format to supplement the cards once they stop being viable.

[@ScowlingFleshBag]

Having your hero go LL hurts but all heroes that are LL can be played in the living legend format. The format is widely played by now. Maybe give it another chance. When a hero LL's only the signature weapon and the specialisation cards are unplayable, all other cards stay playable. Even if a hero goes, that does not mean a whole new deck needs to be purchased. Usually there are one or two heroes in the class that make use of the cards. A lot has happened since Aria. Give it another chance.

[@cyrilpit3505]

Fab success in the competitive scene is also its biggest weakness. This game requires so much knowledge, depth and commitment that it s almost impossible for a new player to go to an armory (supposed to be casual event) and spend a good time. You will meet nice people, because i believe this game luckily has an amazing fan base, but you will get destroy. It was design for CC, for 45 minutes games, for people who can train 4h a day and breath the game. LSS makes a magnificent job maki'g compétitive players happy, but for now, they dont know how to please casual players. And long term, casual players will grow the game, will bring money, not compétitive. Release PVE.

[@mrpinguimninja]

FaB is already a fighting game imo, I'm really interested in trying it out because from what I could pick up from watching tutorials, it plays very similar to a regular fighting game. Also, FaB's owner doesn't look like it is as predatorial and obtuse as wotc, which is great, since wotc's handling of magic is what made me drop the game

[@upStomp]

A minor point. Expanding into Japan isn't necessarily a sign of health. It could very well be the easiest way for them to increase the player base because sales have plateaued in most other countries. Ever play Risk as a kid? 😉 Yes, the other indicators you list could reflect the health of the company and brand. I just don't see it expanding significantly in-place without someday breaking their promise of no official online play. The game is too complex for most to pick up casually at events. It would benefit greatly from a limited online option (with more polish and functionality than FT & Tal) to give folks a better head start.

[@GrumpyGamerz]

Glad the locals i go to are noob friendly, i been told other game stores in my area full of pros , and they dont go easy. The store i go too and a few of them have really good deck for competitive, but for local they use a friendly deck for newer players

[@Possu81]

Will be hard to develop PVE for such game like FaB. Blitz has lots of missing components. LL format looks promising. It has such powerful decks that dedicated beginner could win with OP draws. LSS seems to be ultra aggressive in expanding which was intended probably. It remind me of 2010-2015 mtg.

[@LoroofTheWorld]

I am going to just dump my toughts here. Pitfight is very fun format (and casual). It has couple of heroes that are dedicated to that format (which is nice) but magics commander situation seems bad? So is it worth chasing? Almost everyone who I know are like busy adults with jobs and kids and stuff so they have to choose where to invest their time. Many people are in the grind mode so they choose CC. The biggest audience who have time are young and kids, they dont have that much money though and may not fit in to the flesh and blood main purpose as it is designed for more adultish. The best thing in flesh and blood is that it encorages you to go out in the world to play the game, so maybe supporting this somehow would be super awesome! Like pay for flights and hotels at random or for players who do great (I dont know or maybe an application for LSS that you show devotion and support for the game and are worthy that way).

[@LoroofTheWorld]

Or some epic achievement system like creating content, recruiting a new player, travelling to another country for fab, xp, winning big tournament, playing casual formats X times, playing comp format X times! That would also give great data to the LSS what kind of players do which kind of things!

[@v33dooo]

They actually do that! Last year they flew a ton people out to New Zealand for the invitational

[@LoroofTheWorld]

​@@v33dooooh mb! Heck yeah!

[@riddlermangaming3533]

Good discussion

[@silikdo6514]

I see the Problem on a local level as well. Our lgs doesn´t seem to care much on our small player bases of stagnating 6-8 Players, so is the treatment in comparison to other TCGs in our lgs which have a bigger support and our lgs throwing in freebies into the Pricepools while we are stuck just with the armory Kits stuff. If the Armory Kits wren´t free of charge our lgs would already stop support it entirely.😢 I can go to other shops but the atmosphere and comradeship there is exceptional.

[@troybowden3447]

To help Flesh and Blood grow, focus more on Blitz over CC! Grab some players, hit up a local game store (LGS), and just play casual games. You can even split armory events between Blitz and CC formats. For a fun twist, build Commoner decks to hand out and get more people playing. Let's keep the community growing!

[@sanderferreira2507]

Blitz is not a good casual format, in fact is even more punishing for new players since you cannot come back from a bad play like CC

[@enersha6979]

Expanding into other regions could backfire. They might spread themselves too thin while not being able to allocate enough resources to develop the actual game, since they often have to resort to deleting decks to achieve some semblance of game balance.

[@ScowlingFleshBag]

You bring up a good point but from what I can see, they are methodological about how they deploy their resources so I don't think spreading themselves too thin is going to be an issue. Furthermore, I doubt the team in charge of expansion of OP into a new region is the same team as the play testing team.

[@tcgmetaslayer4202]

Another big issue is that this game should be called “Command and Conquer” because its a card too overpriced that EvERY deck needs. Its like sol ring in mtg, but mg did a better job and made sol ring easily available.

[@Deingel12]

NGL, the idea of inviting a player to play FAB by instilling in them that the competitive scene numbers are big but when they go to locals, there would be 3-4 players at best feels scummy hahaha

[@juliobbeltran]

pretty crazy how the world is more than your local scene huh

[@sunnycaljon5319]

Im interested in getting into the game but havent gone to the local shop that plays it every sunday, im worried that it will be only 3-4 players

[@Deingel12]

@@sunnycaljon5319 Join in, it'll take a while to make the ball rolling but if you join, someone else will see you and will also join! If you dont play take the first step, who else will? It does suck sometimes to be a FAB player - we literally have to carry the game on our backs because we dont have the same prestige as MTG, Lorcana or Pokemon does. but if we truly like this game, we will do what we can to make it more popular

[@emida2012]

@@sunnycaljon5319Have you asked around how big the local scene at your LGS is?

[@sunnycaljon5319]

@@emida2012 The shop is 45 min away so no I dont know anyone that goes there, I messaged the shop on insta and all they told me was there was a prerelease last sunday lol

[@vinnyangelo6634]

Maybe there needs to be a format for just out the box blitz decks.

[@aceghostrus122]

I was a casual player in FAB and i was getting thrashed by full legendary players. Same 10 people came to the lgs and they were hyper competitive. When the fire ninja and illusionist came(i dont remember the set), i was playing Islander with a decent deck with 1 legendary and the new ninja dealt me 59 dmg after the block. In Blitz btw. That was the point when i just ditched this thrash, overly competitive game and dumb community that alienates the new players(i played for an year and 10 people came and 10 left). It just sucks.

[@unknowncrash1]

Same boat. The fact this game is Pay more to Win (for a limited time) and the power creep with constantly rotating stuff is just unappealing.

[@tefa8927]

I just wish my LGS did blitz :c me and my friends started recently and have been having lots of fun with just the simple precons and replacing a few things to improve them. Too bad there's no events where i can use it without upgrading to CC and tryharding like the others

[@giganticwalrus]

The journey just started for me. From what I read I think it has the potential to overtake MTG

[@metalliman14]

As someone who likes the game but sucks at it would be great if i could play newer people. The skill level for this game is high and variance low which makes it hard for newer players to win/have fun. Ive gone to armouries and such and been obliterated but cant go every week to get better. I dont have the time to git gud basically lol

[@gH05tM4LL]

It is dying

[@alternativereality-e6i]

US players fell but international players increased.

[@5p3cu10]

So me and a mate tried FaB for the first time last night. I picked up the Part the Mistveil Blitz collection and we played using that. We had a great time. The game mechanics are solid. So we both had a look online and found that Blitz isn't actually the preferred version. Our LGS plays Classic Constructed. Imagine our horror to discover that to play CC using what I bought... Was a nightmare. So we looked to see if there was cc pre made starters. Great news! There is! Sadly... They are £40!!!!!! EACH!!!!! It doesn't come with sideboard, a rulebook, a paper mat? Like seriously?! How disconnected does a company need to be to not have an actual gateway into the game. We were so disappointed and have decided not to take the game any further. Buying cards isn't a problem. Offering a crap intro into your game... Kills my excitement

[@ScowlingFleshBag]

Sad to hear that you decided not to move forward. The new player experience is something that causes a lot of discussion and needs further improvement. If you do decide to give it another go - the blitz decks you have in the Mistveil collection can be upgraded pretty easily and I am sure there are guides on YT on how to do that. I hope you change your mind because it is a great game.

[@Nobody-hc1rw]

Yeah the Blitz and CC are annoying, but preventable when doing prior research. Personally not a fan of the lack of a rulebook or paper playmat, but to be honest it took 10 minutes to google and print both a playmat and the rulebook. A google search of 'flesh and blood rules pdf' gets you there. I bought an Azalea armoury deck, through cardmarket because it was sold out everywhere; yes i paid 60 bucks + shipping. Ah crap intro is a bit harsh, they have several interactive guides on their website on how to play, but best is to just attend a armoury event like i did. You will learn to play very quickly. Many people that go to armoury events have received (or won) playmats through events and might even sell you one for like 10 bucks. Give it another chance when you are not so emotional, i guess. Good luck have fun!

[@FrancescoLorusso-ug9ul]

Hi, I'm Italian, I'm a new player and to be able to play this game that I think is amazing I have to travel 150 km total between going and returning. You're right only for one thing, the fact that inside the armory deck there is no leaflet that explains the rules, but for the rest I have to tell you that some armory decks (Brute for example), are really well made and just a few changes are enough to make them competitive. So if you really like the game, you learn the rules by playing and asking players who have been playing for a long time, also because with 10 different classes, it would take an encyclopedia to explain all the mechanics, combinations, while if you want to learn the basics there are tons of tutorials on KZbin made even by the parent company. So I feel like telling you that if you don't progress in the game what you said is not a valid explanation.

[@5p3cu10]

@FrancescoLorusso-ug9ul it's not up to the community to make your game playable. It's not up to the community to create a starter experience. That's on the company. For example; The game has a specific setup. No mat means I don't know that setup. I need to come out of the starter experience and look elsewhere to find that out. Blitz isn't the standard format ... meaning Blitz decks aren't a starter experience. If I want to make them a starter experience I need to either buy random packs OR go buy specific cards. Booster packs are fine but I don't have a foundation to work from. I have 66% of the foundation. I shouldn't need to go onto YT and watch videos on how to make a blitz decks into a CC deck. It's not the responsibility of the community to have to do it. I also shouldn't feel pressured into having to spend hundreds of pounds and jumping straight to competative play. The starter experience for this game is terrible at best. I own over 60 different miniature Wargaming systems. I have played TCGs since 2001. I know what I am doing and I know red flags. Not only that... This is also my friends experience. I am not alone in this assessment. If they make starter decks that are an all-in-one product that I can build from, then we will look at it again. As it stands... It's £40 for a half complete experience

[@5p3cu10]

@@FrancescoLorusso-ug9ul I also want to make it 100% clear. I want to like this game. My mate wants to like this game. We have found that we don't agree with the terrible entry into the game. If you can't get the opening right, I don't have faith in the rest.