Is Goth A Trend? - On Elitism

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[@megmcguigan3857]

I'm 51 and have been listening to goth/punk/alternative music since 1986. I used to wear a lot of black eyeliner, black clothes and skull buckle pikes in high school in the late 80's. The term 'goth' was not used in that area I lived in until about 90-91. I think the term 'gatekeeper' is being thrown around way too much these days.There are a lot of people self identifying as 'goth' right now who think it is just an aesthetic. When you try to tell them about the music some will call you a 'gatekeeper'. It's getting way out of hand at this point.

[@lilachris]

It is getting out of hand! 🤯 TikTok is FULL of these people, it's crazy!

[@winternightmarecrochet]

A thing where a lot of people get confused is, a goth can listen to non-goth music, that's perfectly fine, but it doesn't make that band goth. No matter how much one insists, it doesn't work that way. Yes, actual goth music is changing and evolving, but it doesn't broaden the label into accepting other music as "goth", since goth music itself is a genre, and also incompassed a wide variety of genres already. Personally I couldn't care less how someone identifies and what subculture they're a part of, it doesn't threaten my identity. And I tend to be accepting and welcoming of diverse people in the scene. However, don't come here and be like "omg Evanescence is soooooo goth" nah that's pop rock (or whatever genre it's actually classified as, I don't know much about it tbh). You can be a goth and like Evanescence. But it's not a goth band and it doesn't make much sense to classify it as such cause the themes, the sounds and etc. are very distinct from what goth music is.

[@lilachris]

Oh yes, I completely agree that the term goth refers to a couple of specific music genres, that's why I rather like to use the word "influences" on the goth music than saying other genres are suddenly also goth. It might also be a little different in different countries, but here it all goes under the umbrella term "schwarze szene" so "black scene", where different subcultures who have things in common are generally labelled under. These terms and words are not necessarily always 100% right, but they help to find your way around, find like-minded people for example.

[@winternightmarecrochet]

@@lilachris Oh that's interesting I never really heard about different terminology being used in different countries. I'm in Quebec, the french part of Canada and here, since the scene is small, we kinda lump everything together and goths and metalheads hang out together, and always invite the punks in as well and we have an awesome time.

[@user-kk2pc7ik7t]

Ive read that its actually gothic metal. Im fairly certain that its metal. And wether or not Gothic metal is actually goth, I believe is actually not entirely set in Stone

[@user-kk2pc7ik7t]

A lot of goths online argue that gothic metal is an offshoot of doom/death metal. I dont know enough to argue against that, but according to Wikipedia its actually a fusion between gothic rock and metal en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_metal

[@Sanniz]

Awww, you are not old. Myself is 54 and have been goth since 80s. Before that I was already a darkly inclined child. And all kids that wasn't mainstream hanged together, from punkheads to metalheads during 80s. I fell in love with Sisters of Mercy... then Siouxsie and the banshees, The Cure, Fields of Nephilim, The Mission, Clan of xymox and much more. And today my Spotify wrapped said I am into most dark postpunk. Was little suprised my old heart wasn't goth rock (hopefully people don't mix that term outside goth. Cause it's to similar sounded as gothic rock/metal. But one is goth and the other metal). Still today I discover new bands. And sometimes I also discover old ones, but I never heard them during the 80s. For me goth is a never ending life style and of course we can listen to other music too. And I am happy if people find their way into the goth subculture too. No matter what was the first reason. And of course, for me is the music the base. Thanks for a great video in this "trendy" subject. 🦇🖤🖤🖤🖤🦇

[@lilachris]

Oh okay so that's a difference I didn't know! Gothic Rock is a metal genre? Like Evanescence maybe? I always thought people just wrongly call it that because they don't know any better. Its great to hear from so many 80s people here! You must have seen it all come and go 😄

[@Sanniz]

@@lilachris I think gothic rock/metal is like band as Type o Negative, The 69 eyes and similar. I have seen some, but like you said. Things can be different from country to country too. And I am from Sweden.

[@strawberry_cake-78]

I’m interested in the goth subculture and just started listening to post punk. (I don’t know if that makes me a baby bat or not) And it’s hard to find things actually related to goth. I’m new and I don’t want to be misinformed. But it’s frustrating to google “goth” and only pictures and links to celebrities in dark clothing, alt TikTok, and kill star hauls. We need gatekeepers to educate about the subculture and guide them in the right direction.

[@lilachris]

Oh we definitely need education, that's true! I can recommend some Playlists on Spotify, for example those by Madi Danger!

[@user-kk2pc7ik7t]

You just have to look for the right places. Ive been reading the Wikipedia articles on and off. Plus, Ive been interested in libraries on and off.

[@Agothygoth]

This was a very informative video. I got into the goth scene from the psychedelic scene. I was into that kind of music for years until I discovered Lebanon Hanover which led me into Bauhaus and the rest is history. I love the different subcultures in the goth scene because I am a Victorian goth and identity as such. Now with the whole trends yes they will come and go but hopefully the ones who are doing the trend decide to stay traditional goth or cyber goth and what not. The Wednesday Adam show I haven’t watched. I’ve asked others on KZbin is the show worth a watch and most have said yes but I just haven’t pushed myself into watching it. But if the Wednesday show helps someone discover themselves or the goth scene then that’s all that maters right? Lastly, the music to me is def a must in the scene. Like you said you don’t have to listen to Bauhaus everyday but knowing songs from them or joy division means you took the time to look and listen to these bands that we love so much. When I first started the goth scene I read books about the gothic architecture (which stole my heart) and made me really appreciate goth and all it’s dark glory.

[@lilachris]

I find it very interesting to see how everyone found out about the goth subculture :D I mean it's not like everyone is born with the knowledge of all the subcultures in the world and can just choose at onset of puberty haha I actually liked the Wednesday show, you just can't compare it to any of the older Addams Family renditions and base your opinion on that I think. It's very different. Also: Gothic architecture

[@Agothygoth]

@@lilachris haha yes I wish I was born with the knowledge of goth. See that’s why I think I haven’t watched the show because I’m would compare it to the older show or the movies. So I’m going to atleast wait until all the hype is down from it and then watch it when no one is interested in it lol. Yes gothic architecture is my life and that’s one of the big reason for me going to Germany next year. As I said in the last comment when I get there we def have to hang out and have a beer 😊.

[@lilachris]

@@Agothygoth absolutely! 😁 Tell me when!

[@overkillphil514]

Personally I say “ A win is a win.” I didn’t know that Goth was a word back in the late 80s I just enjoyed the music and the vampire films. I always dressed in black as I hated the neon rave music that was out then. None of my friends knew about it or were interested in it. Not until the late 90s with the internet that I realised that “oh! That’s goth music! All this time, who knew?” When you don’t know, you don’t know. It’s great I can find matte black nail varnish now and no one cares about my tattoos and piercings. I just wish people would wore more latex too and everything would be perfect!

[@lilachris]

haha yes, lots of people who were younger in the 80s (not specifically goth) like my mom for instance, don't actually know that their new wave CDs are what is playing at our local goth night :D and yes, I am so happy that black make up and fishnets and that kind of stuff is widely available now!

[@eiszapfenkobold]

Goth scene was always with heavily elitist groups, or friends groups who just got the "elitist" stamp for keeping to ourselves and certain styles. I was part of hamburg/north german goth party scene since i was 18, ca. in 2000 i started weekly visiting parties. It was always a discussion to distance people from another. I remember when cybergoth was a huge trend wave in music and fashion. And all the killstar brand oriented groups trashing oldschoolers and visa versa. Teens reimagining oldschool fashion. All the "aesthetics". Nothing new. It comes and goes and some day we are old and have our own style formed by life and preferences. Today i discovered a chinese goth/metal like band. Totally mindblowing what the web does to cultural connections.

[@lilachris]

It has definitely always been happening and both the influences and changes and the talk of elitism are nothing new, but I feel like the internet and social media give it a whole new dimension nowadays. Man sieht sich bei der Return dann :D

[@kalazirys]

My older's sister was big influence my childhood, the way she dress up, the free thinking and creativity and the band's like bauhaus, the mission, sisters of mercy, the cure, siouxsie and the banshees, depeche mode, gothic literature and movies, and the whole aesthetic of 90s goth, made me feel in love with goth subculture, and becoming goth since i was 11, when i was 16 i wasn't in the best of mental health due to bullying at school and, i didnt have alot of friends, still she was always there, i didnt understand at the time why i was atracted to dark things of life but i felt safe and comfortable, my cultural tastes, musical and dressing were very different, my colleagues of school always said dressing in all black was depress, for me black is modest and arrogant at the same time black is lazy and easy but mysterious it means that many things go together yet it takes different aspects in many fabrics, you need black to have a silhouette black can swallow light or make things look sharp but above all black says this I don't bother you don't bother me, for me my identity, individuality are very important, my parents were against at first they always said to me in order to blend into sociaty you need to wear a mask one that we never take off, but i keep going i stop cared about other people think, after awhile they gave up, i was more happy and better in school, for me being goth is lifestyle and is process of learning, and i understand the worrys about #goth becoming trend, because is kinda resposability if people give us bad name we get the blame too can backfire pretty quickly, but also can be good way of people get into the subculture finding the music, the literature, the movies and the community i love going to Mera Luna every year and enjoying with my friends and my sister's, and even the music is always evolving i like to listen diferent kinda style's not only goth, but ebm, industrial, techno if have the same roots and its good i don't think is problem.

[@lilachris]

Getting into the subculture is a never ending process I'd say, for me it still is a process of discovering and learning new things every day for the last 15 years! I'm happy that it turned out this way for you and you're not wearinf a mask!

[@ekc_sc.722]

Aww, you're not old. I'm 47, lol. I stay away from TikTok because I find it a toxic platform. I've been goth for longer than I can remember. Definitely goes all the way back into my very young childhood. I was obsessed with the original Addams Family TV show, my mom used to make my clothes when I was a kid because "gothy" clothes didn't exist for little kids back in the early 80's (and OMG, I used to get beat up by the other kids but I didn't care, I was just trying to be me), I've always been nocturnal, etc. When I discovered the music as a pre-teen/teenager it was like a bolt of lightning hit me. I shake my head at a lot of these so called goth trends on social media but at the end of the day, like you said, it does bring us baby bats that genuinely want to explore the subculture and end up staying. We need young ones to keep the subculture going. Elitists drive me crazy. I will never understand why some want to gatekeep such a wonderful way of life. My home is decorated like a vampire's mansion. I had a repair person here the other day and when he came in he looked around and said, "THIS IS INCREDIBLE! I LOVE IT!!!! But I could never decorate my house like this." He sounded sad so I asked him why not, what's stopping you? He just kind of looked at me blankly and said, "Yeah, why couldn't I?" We had quite a discussion while he was doing repairs and he left with a list of bands that I wrote up for him because he also liked the music I had on in the backround. People tend to think goth is a youth subculture and it just makes me laugh. If they had any idea how many of us are truly middle aged and older they would faint, lol. To me, goth is a lifestyle and it permeates every facet of your life from music to clothes to makeup to home decor to literature to media, etc. You're never too old to get into something you love. If trends bring us new people to invigorate the scene then so be it.

[@lilachris]

That story is so sweet and sad at the same time! We get lots of people in our shop who come in as parents with their alternative kids and they say "I used to look like that when I was her age" and I'm there thinking and why don't you look like that now? 🤔

[@ekc_sc.722]

@@lilachris exactly! I don't know why anyone thinks they have to stop looking a way they love just because they reach a certain age or become a parent. I've always been able to hold down a job looking the way I do and I did it in an era that had a LOT less tolerance to anyone that was different in appearance and very few people could work from home. It saddens me when I see people that have conformed to society's norms and they are clearly unhappy about it because they aren't being their true selves. My favorite meme is: "You're too old to dress like that" and the person replies, "Well, Karen, you're too old to be alive yet here we are." 😂Life is short. Do what makes you happy.

[@Agothygoth]

I love that you have the repair man the courage to get into the scene and gave him some confidence about decorating his house. Also i would love to see your vampire mansion! Like you had me at vampire.

[@gaarasabakuno7878]

I started early with black clothing but there was nothing like a goth store at the end of DDR, so everything that could be combined was good to go. Ring, Chains and other stuff joined what i could get my hands on. After that there was more in direction of metal. Than and i know it´s extremly late , came our good Nycthophilia around the corner and that was the moment i could express myself how i realy want. It goes so far that i even wear these clothes in the gym, it´s a feeling, a lifestyle, an identity and a decision. Ofcourse no one wants that to be less what it means to oneself but maybe we can welcome all the new trend goths in our arms and let them now what it means to us, not all ofcourse but maybe some of them get this feeling and a social media trend will be there new found way of life. :)

[@celestialfox9282]

This is the best video describing goth and the difference between actual gatekeeping and people who just like labels..a lot lol

[@lilachris]

Labels can be useful to find stuff and people and events and such of course, so I do like labels. People using the word should just know what it means and preferably only describe things with it that fit the definition 😅

[@jesfits]

I totally agree with you! Amazing video 🖤

[@lilachris]

Thanks very much! 😊

[@ramibrediciem4668]

I absolutely agree. I'm a granny goth by the way. Love you!

[@lilachris]

We're lucky to be in a scene where age is not a problem! 😊 I'm looking forward to growing old in this community

[@diesvenja9623]

I would say trends come and go and so do the people. There will be some who enjoy the scene and stay. Others will move on to the next trend. I‘m now 6 years in the scene so hopefully not a baby bat anymore. Still there is so much to discover. What I am a bit worried about is when people follow the trend without understanding the scene. This can ruin the atmosphere. Thinking about the Victorian picnic at WGT that is flooded by photographers and spectators. It had no atmosphere this year for me at all. Or thinking about recent concerts where people were constantly talking so that it was hard to enjoy the music. Don’t know if this was just bad luck but I had multiple occurrences like that recently. So I guess people are elitist because they don’t want the atmosphere they enjoy to be ruined.

[@lilachris]

Hmm I think especially at Victorian picnic there are more "tourists" than people who follow the trend 😅 idk why people talk at concerts, I see that a lot too and hate it, not only in the Goth scene

[@diesvenja9623]

@@lilachris I was just thinking when a scene becomes trendy or mainstream, it can lose its atmosphere. And Victorian picnic is one of the examples. I am sad that I did not experience it in its beginnings. Yeah, it is annoying to hear a conversation over the music. 😥

[@AndiHardman]

I'm 50+ yr old, 'old school' goth from the 80's. I do prefer the classic goth bands, but I do listen to more modern groups as well. Goth is an outlook on life, its a culture. If there was to be no more goth genre in media or festivals would you still be a goth? For me goth is not defined by just listening to the music. It is not defined by wearing black clothes or having a goth appearance. The album cover to Michael Jacksons 'Bad' shows him goth clothing from the 80's but goth definitely wasn't. Tim Burton's 'Wednesday' will bring many to the periphery of goth scene, a few will enter and the others will reminisce in 10 years time by saying when 'I was a goth'. We all know that the next trend in female fancy dress trend will be Wednesday Addams, in a similar way it was Harley Quinn a few years ago. For some, goth will be a trend, and they will leave the scene in due course, those who remain will see the goth culture and decide if it is for them.

[@lilachris]

I agree that it's more of a mind set, an attitude and a general lifestyle!

[@kiaracornelio1441]

I totally agree with you, I think the important thing about all this is knowing how to respect others regardless of clothing or musical tastes, for a year now I've been trying to get into the Goth culture and I also started with the emo style xD and it's wonderful to see people united by music 🖤

[@lilachris]

Welcome to the dark side! 😄🖤🦇

[@pvalli85]

Well said and wise words to you!

[@lilachris]

I hope so 😅😄

[@TheBrianRaglandChannel]

Before I even watched this video,.. I have to answer personally I think no,.. because it's been around for so long and it's very popular. I love it so I mean,... I don't think it's just a fad or trend... I think it's gonna be around for quite a long time....great video, thumbs way up

[@lilachris]

It is going to be around if we allow new people to find their way into the subculture :)

[@Marleenchan]

Danke für das Video. Du sprichst mir aus der Seele. Alles was dir Scene bereichert und am Leben hält finde ich gut. 🖤🦇

[@lilachris]

Schön, dass es dir gefällt! 😊

[@saleaeswandrea3175]

Tnx for posting this video, really like it and agree with your opinion about new people to the scene!!!

[@lilachris]

I'm happy you like the video! Thanks!

[@bickc1857]

Your not old....I'm 68 and been wearing the Black since the late 70's admittedly i was in many bands...and still play and wear black....i grew up loving Universal/Hammer/Munsters/Addams Family etc....i love the subculture and the ideal but you don't have to like the music ...it is a lifestyle and that's it i just live it and love it....the 2000's have been a real mix of styles but it still moves forward....i get Baby bats way younger than me saying i'm not goth but i politely ignore them....and i admit killstar etc is not for me... now at my age i still wear plain black and dress more victorian but always in my trusty frock coat....long live goth!! xx

[@lilachris]

That is so cool! I'm really happy to see people who have lived in the scene their whole adult lives too, it's very motivating! :)

[@bickc1857]

Thank you…my father loved Horror and Pirate Movies and i would watch movies with him so i guess it came from that bless him…i just find its a great and ‘honest’ culture to be in…my new partner who is 54 loves the culture and both our houses are 24/7 Halloween😂😂…sending much luv!!Bick C!!xx🖤🖤

[@SGRmoss]

Well said!

[@lilachris]

Thank you!

[@MidnightMuse102]

🖤🖤🖤

[@lilachris]

🖤🙏🏻

[@mausvr7752]

In my observations from looking at multiple generations and across many countries, goth is evolving/already evolved. There will be some who say goth is dying. IT IS NOT! the new goth is almost the opposite of the goth stereotypes. Modern goths smile, encourage others to participate in goth, they listen to EVERYTHING we want and dance any way that makes us feel beautiful. Self expression is exploding, it is no longer about looking like cookie cutter goth. Goth will always wish to establish uniqueness from societal expectations and especially what goths are expected to be. Goth is now counter-counter culture.

[@Lou-is1oo]

Ich stimme dir da voll zu. Mega interessantes Video, das ich jetzt erst gefunden habe :D ich selbst habe das Problem, dass ich in keine Szene so richtig 100% reinpasse und auch nicht wirklich weiß wie ich mich selbst beschreiben würde. Ich höre Metal, Rock, Darkwave und Industrial Music, mag Cybergoth bzw Industrial Dance, und habe auch in meinem Kleidungsstil sowohl Elemente aus der Emo- und der Gothic Szene. Manchmal geht es optisch bei mir komplett in die eine und manchmal komplett in die andere Richtung. Fühle mich daher etwas lost weil ich nicht so wirklich weiß wo ich hingehöre, aber das coole ist, dass aus beiden Szenen die Menschen im Real Life sehr nett und offen sind :D frage mich bloß immer ,,sehen die mich jetzt als einer von ihnen oder nicht bzw darf ich mich als beides bezeichnen oder nicht" :D

[@lilachris]

Ich glaube du musst dich da auch nicht entscheiden oder zuordnen, sondern kannst an mehreren verschiedenen Szenen teilhaben ☺️

[@brittanymorgan4308]

Thank goodness your better with your words cause you said all on how i felt i got into goth when i was a teenager i was and still in to punk/ metal i was also a member of vampire freaks plus at the time i got my own laptop so i got listen to all sorts of new music i still always look up new music now i was dating people which hated my fashion so i always switched it up they are gone now but now i have been back to the fashion part of it for the past 5 years i hope this makes sense

[@lilachris]

Everyone can wear what they want and listen to what they want, especially when they're just getting into alternative subcultures and have to try themselves out

[@brittanymorgan4308]

@@lilachris yes its wonderful too be able to be my authentic self

[@KennyMartin-q3n]

No morning star no peace!

[@survivalinwonderland5277]

I’m a steampunk or more really a Victorian steamgoth (Yes, I fit that cliché). Steampunk went through a similar phase where it became trendy. We endured mainstream media and really truly bad art of people who glued plastic gears on everything. 9:16 In the end we picked up new people. We lived through it just fine. In my opinion it advanced the subculture. We retained the people who truly are steampunk and that advanced the subculture further. Just remember to make it your own. Goths make goth. Not anyone else. If the mainstream makes something good then enjoy it. If it sucks ignore it. Or take it apart and remake it your own. Personally I like Wednesday. It’s a iconic old school character and they did a good job on the new series. If it brings goths to goth that’s good. The trendy people will go away at some point. Also you’re not old, but I am. I got into all of this alternative punk goth steampunk subculture and music in high school in the late 1980’s. Thanks for your video.

[@Agothygoth]

I have never met a steampunk Victorian and I think that is so awesome that you mixed the two.

[@lilachris]

Well steam punk is basically retro futuristic Victorian?

[@lilachris]

Steampunk still seems to be loved by the mainstream media almost more than the regular goth styles at goth festivals 😁 I have to find out what Steampunk music is at one point, I always wonder.

[@survivalinwonderland5277]

@@Agothygoth Since steampunk is based on a Victorian aesthetic, Victorian science fiction and retro futurism. It’s actually common for goths to find steampunk and like it. Especially Goths that love Victorian aesthetics, corsets bustle dresses and mourning gowns, vampires etc. A lot of steampunks were or are also goths. So much so that it was an annoying and stupid meme/trope making fun of us all over the internet in 2007ish. Things like steampunk only exists for goths to wear brown etc.

[@Agothygoth]

@@survivalinwonderland5277 well I def am a Victorian goth and when I first saw steampunk I almost threw my Victorian skirt to the side lol. The whole aspect of steampunk resonates with me and maybe later in the future I will incorporate the two. The stereotype of that steampunks live to wear brown is so stupid. If people only took the time to learn what these styles mean to us they would understand.

[@getyourownshoe]

Well said! 🖤

[@lilachris]

Thanks!

[@thegremlin3194]

I was around when Goth started yes too young and at school but liked some of the music yet found the Gatekeepers at the time an obstacle to joining in . I did see Sisters of mercy , Mission and Fields of the Nephilim live when they were all still good but found the scene a little cramped to call myself Goth . As time has gone by in the 2000s more varied music got shown at alternative festivals . Myself I welcome this , When a festival like Mera Luna can only find 4 true Goth groups it says what would happen if this is all there was . The crowd would be tiny and the scene die a sad death like so many others . Instead it has branched out allowing more people to express themselves and hear a range of sounds . This is the only way to go , be inclusive for all us Neurodivergent people . This now is a scene I can feel part of

[@lilachris]

I feel like these festivals still exist only because they branch out and include all kinds of genres. The Post Punk Festivals I know of are all pretty small in comparison. That doesn't make them less fun, but it's a different experience.

[@OstseeTine]

Sehr komplexes Thema! Jeder wurde doch irgendwie irgendwann geprägt. Ich weiß nicht mehr, wie es bei mir genau war. Hab als 12 - 13 jährige in Schwerin mal ein paar sehr "dunkle Gestalten" gesehen. Ich fand es einfach faszinierend. Damals hatten wir noch kein Internet, auf dem Dorf wo ich aufgewachsen bin eh nicht, aber durch Zufall bin ich auf den Orkus gestoßen. Rockiges Zeug mochte ich schon immer, aber so wurde mein kleiner damaliger Horizont noch mehr erweitert ^^ tja, Eltern meinten, diese Phase geht auch vorbei.. Aber ich bin mehr als mein halbes Leben lang Goth (bin jetzt 34). auch wenn ich nicht so schön geschminkt bin täglich, mein Kleiderschrank eher alltagstauglich ist, fühle ich es immer 🖤

[@lilachris]

Das ist es ja genau - irgendwie sind wir alle hierher gekommen und irgendwo hat man eben angefangen. Man kann ja schlecht jeden jungen Menschen zu einer Trueness Prüfung zwingen um zu verhindern dass sich Poser einschleichen 😂

[@retrosonique7129]

Orkus ist das schlimmste Schmutzblatt überhaupt. Neben Sonic Seducer. Für mich war die Szene schon zu dieser Zeit tot. Ich sehe kaum Gemeinsamkeiten zum heutigen Karneval.

[@user-kk2pc7ik7t]

Allow people to take their time to figure things out. Thats my two cents.

[@deusexlumina]

1. Listen to Goth music 2. Dress in black 3. ??? 4. Profit

[@lilachris]

It's as simple as that!

[@lunaamethyst1046]

Ich habe mich über die Serie gefreut und auch darüber, dass sie so populär geworden ist. Finde es nur schade, dass "Goo Goo Muck" ausgetauscht wurde gegen "bloody mary" und das jetzt durch alle Plattformen geistert😅

[@lilachris]

Ich hab mich ehrlichgesagt auch gefragt warum das passiert ist :'D obwohl ich zugebe, dass ich da auch mitgemacht hab natürlich

[@lunaamethyst1046]

@@lilachris Könnte mir auch vorstellen, dass das vielleicht unbewusst ein Grund ist, warum viele momentan so einen "Hass" auf die Serie entwickeln ..also, was du im Video angesprochen hast. Naja, Hauptsache man hat Spaß :D muss mir den Tanz auch noch aneignen

[@Mysthaamy]

All my life, Post Punk, Alternative, Punk Rock, Rock, Techno, industrial. Nu metal is only thing I'm listen in type of metal. I love One song of the metalica. It's Enter sademan ( lyrics by echo and bunnyman ) I'm not a big fan the metal music. I love the folklore bands All my life, i wear Rainbow punk rock goth whatever i want. I'm going to thrift shop, i going to create my own look in my imagination. I'm inspired whatever it's old fashion, with the look punk. The fishnets wear it always in different colors. What's important ! not what you waer is always black or not the same fashion of the band, it's not mandatory for me. Look David Bowie, it's a punk !? the goth listen him, he not wears it in black always. In time 80s, They pick up whatever he find in the closet can wears it. They don't have the killstar or the others brands goth. its not mandatory to wears kill star or other brands for to be a goth. In my book, whatever you love what's it goth things, you are goth in your soul !

[@lilachris]

That's exactly true! It might be convenient that a lot of goth looking items are readily available now, but that is not the original spirit of creativity and DIY culture! Though I must say I'm very bad at making things myself 😅

[@-RONNIE]

I keep on saying we created our worst enemy. If we wasn't being an elitist or gatekeeping back in the day we wouldn't have this problem. It's the same with social media it's good and bad that's why I'm glad I never got on it. See it would have been better or acceptable if they would have created a new word like they did before Darkly Inclined & Alternative and leave Goth and Gothic to us ( but no ) However the miss identifying each other from normal people and then we have to constantly explain the difference is tiring. As for me I just got tired of doing it. I agree it's good for the subculture to evolve but in the right way. Thanks for your thoughts on this.

[@lilachris]

If people ask politely, I'm always happy to explain "what I am" 😂 or which scene I belong to and what music I listen to. I try to be a good ambassador for the Goth scene hehe. But of course most people probably just want to be left alone with it.

[@-RONNIE]

@@lilachris oh yes I do the same thing if people are nice and respectful. I was telling a friend of mine at lunch I just wish people back in the day would have been nicer to so-called baby bats maybe we won't have a lot of problems we do now.

[@jonmcintire9067]

The Jones's of darkness , then in that all goth scene , what's the Jones's of Gothic culture .💀💀💀💀💀😎😎😀😯😉😈😈😈, its the builder , the constructor of iron maidens and stuff , its an idea 😈😈😈😀

[@danielamondschein]

To me it's like.. I can wear a Flamenco dress and still be goth. Someone who isn't goth can dress up in Killstar and piercings and still not authentically be one. It's like the difference between being vegan and wearing a shirt that says "vegan". Partly.

[@lilachris]

Sure! But there are so many stages inbetween too! People who are genuinely interested in the subculture but don't know much about it yet for example might dress in Killstar but listen to metalcore. That doesn't mean they won't ever find out about post punk though 😄

[@kasia1795]

I think so many people forget that it’s a music based sub culture. You can be darkly inclined but not goth, but people outside of the sub culture just call anyone or anything that is darkly inclined goth, to put it in a neat box. I’m darkly inclined my music tastes are more rock/metal and classical I also have many styles of dress so would not call myself a goth.

[@lilachris]

I guess it's also happening because people don't know much about it and just assume that it's all called goth. Lots of people think that goths listen to "heavy metal music" (whatever they think that includes), which is really funny and sad at the same time 😅

[@user-kk2pc7ik7t]

Yeah, just think Screaming Jay Hawkins or Vincent Price

[@Jhihmoac]

I wouldn't know what an "Elitist Goth" is - I've never met one! Everyone does things their own way! Everyone expresses themselves in a manner they're comfortable with.. Leave the "Elitism" with the damn politicians 😝

[@lilachris]

Well you're right, but unfortunately they exist

[@graefinvonkroIock]

I think the only thing that "annoys" me about the trend Goth thing, is people that don't understand or rather avoid to acknowledge what it means to have been - or still being - joked about and mocked on because of the life choices and interest we make and have. I myself haven't been itentifying as Goth for that long now, so I have no idea what it really felt like being Goth like 10-15 years ago, but I still think I'm able to say that I don't care how someone discovered the gothic scene and felt like it was the right fit for them, as long as they're friendly and don't mock anyone for being what they are. Everyone needs to learn and everyone deserves a chance to evolve, I only don't like when people choose to be blind about everything that might be important to us.

[@lilachris]

Exactly, people are not born with all the knowledge in the world, so how could they learn other than just joining in and developing?! And yes, mainstream people play it down because they have no idea really...

[@iamnoone5478]

Schwarze Grüße an alle " Trender" 😃😃 🖤🖤🖤🖤

[@lilachris]

haha :D

[@dancingleaf5826]

this is a respectful comment. please new symbols video

[@lilachris]

I should really make one. Do you have a suggestion for a specific symbol? I was thinking leviathan cross?

[@dancingleaf5826]

@@lilachris yes please, I was thinking liliths symbol, but leviathans cross is way better!

[@garycollingwood4002]

🖤🖤🖤 FIFTY SIX YEAR OLD VIRGIN 🖤🖤🖤

[@Stylomagic]

Also erstmal: Ich habe den Pulli gesucht wie sonst was! Empire Batwing von Killstar, den trägst du doch oder?! XD Der ist überall ausverkauft! Aber ich hab ihn in Spanien gefunden XD Endlich! Und dann wollte ich absolut deine Meinung bekräftigen, denn ich sehe das ganz genau so! Ich bin 39 und ich würde sagen seit 18 Jahren ungefähr in der schwarzen Szene. Also mittlerweile ein wohl verdienter Grufti! XD Wo wären wir, wenn Trends die Szene nicht lebendig halten würden und frischen Wind einhauchen würden? Sieh dir mal das WGT an und wie bunt es ist trotz schwarz! Und wie du sagst, es kommen kleine Fledermäuse zu uns geflattert! Dadurch sterben wir nicht aus. Ich habe das damals genau so gefunden. Interessanterweise habe ich niemanden im engen Freundeskreis, der wie ich in der schwarzen Szene ist und trotzdem lese ich Bücher und höre Musik und sehen Filme, die diese Thematik haben, ohne dass mich jemand aus meinem Umfeld da beeinflusst. Ich glaube manche von uns haben eben einen Tick mehr Düsternis in sich. Sie lassen diese zu, anstatt sich davor zu fürchten. Erkennen deren Schönheit und Romantik. Erkennen Schönheit in Tieren, die bei anderen schiere Angst hervorrufen. Genau so wie die Schönheit Nachts in einem Wald zu wandern. (Mein Favorit) Oder gruseln sich gerne bei Horror Filmen, weil das Gefühl der Gänsehaut belebend ist! Empfinden schwarz als eine Farbe der Freude und nicht der Trauer. Ich selber würde mich überhaupt nicht als melancholisch bezeichnen. Deshalb ist mir Poe auch kein Seelenverwandter. Dafür aber Anne Rice und H.P Lovecraft! Beide schreiben mit sehr viel Hingabe und positiver Stimmung! Ihre Protagonisten geben nie auf! Als ich noch eine kleine Baby Bat war, da haben meine Eltern auch geglaubt, dass es nur eine Phase ist. Und man kann das ehrlich gesagt nie wirklich sagen. Die Menschen mit denen ich früher auf schwarze Veranstaltungen gegangen bin, die sind heute komplett da raus. Aber bei mir, tja da ist das Schwarz wohl durch in die Seele gesickert XD Und ich könnte nicht glücklicher sein.

[@lilachris]

Haha das hast du schön gesagt! 😄🖤 Und ja, das ist dieser Killstar Pulli! 😍 Eins meiner Lieblingsteile!

[@Stylomagic]

@@lilachris Ich wusste es XD Meiner auch :)

[@guitarracovertube657]

Linda

[@lilachris]

thank you!

[@MarkSide_]

2010s saw an awesome revival of trad goth/post punk music now it’s becoming stagnant and fragment scene again, Goths don’t really listen goth music anymore, they’re into to Eurocentric Pagan Nordic Shamen darkwave or 80s revival non cannon goth music.

[@lilachris]

Lol 😄 well I think that might be true for some people, but not all of the scene!

[@creaturesfromelsewhere203]

Quite the trend - 42 years and counting...

[@lilachris]

So you'd say it's always been trendy? 😄

[@creaturesfromelsewhere203]

@@lilachris Yes, ma'am!

[@jonmcintire9067]

Every good person is a goth , so then where does goth fit in in that 😀😀😀😯😉😈😈😈, superior elitist , if it was designed that way .was it 😀😀😀😯😉😈😈😈😈😎💑😸💀💀💀💖

[@macklinantonie6245]

hail Lucifer hail Lilith🤘😆 ☣

[@FlameHashiraAries]

Yes, that's why ever high school girl has a black hair and dark eye make up on Instagram. Just saved you so much time.

[@macklinantonie6245]

Hail Satan 🤘😈 ☣