Is Life Better Now That You've Left The Church? | Why I Don't Go (Season 2 Episode 2)

Five young adults who have left the church sit down for a candid conversation with Lisa Fields in Washington, DC to discuss why they don't go. Join the conversation on twitter, use #WIDG
Missed season 1, check it out here: jude3project.org/video-series...
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Edited by: Lance Asper
Filmed by: Scott Lowery, Luke Asper, and Tom Pottiger

[@jaylenthompson9238]

Something I observed during this clip was that none of the people who left the church/faith mentioned anything about having evidence that Christianity is false in any way. Nothing was mentioned about Christ at all actually, it was mostly about the people they engaged with in their local church. This is why it so imperative that we focus our attention on Christ and conforming ourselves to be more like him. That is one of the key reasons that we go to church, to equip ourselves with God's word which compels us to be more like Christ.

[@cydehustla]

This is it!

[@AntManWatts]

These are unconverted people. They were never christians in the first place. No true believer walls away from the church because they are offended. There love was false.

[@jaylenthompson9238]

@@AntManWatts I think you're on the right track however I would'nt say their love was "false". I would say their love was misinformed or even misguided. Perhaps they were going to church for all the wrong reasons to begin with.

[@nowfaithis9799]

I agree. Through 2 episodes I have not seen relationship with Jesus. Only relationship with people. The social gathering experience. I always wonder if people's relationship with God is what they say it is, why do they walk away instead of going to another place that's more biblically sound? Not like you can deny that scripture says forsake not the assembly. They all need to find a stronger assembly b/c it sounds like they came from pretty weak locations. That first guy should have never been ordained at 15. David was called early, but he still had to wait for the timing to be right to step into the role.

[@MoneyComethToshelia]

Most churches nowadays is nothing but a money hustle

[@imanimalaika7734]

I remember always wanting to get to church early: the REAL church before services started. This was an informal testimony time and whoever felt moved by the Holy Spirit would share a testimony, a Scripture passage, a song, encouraging each other in faith and through hardships, and lots of prayer. People talked about how God was actively moving in their lives. It was so dynamic! We lost that in our rush to be modern and operate church like a for-profit business! We need to look at the church in Acts to see REAL.

[@EnjoyingTheFreeContent]

I miss that as well . So many great memories

[@jamarciaclay6001]

I miss that, too! Focusing on the Power of The Most High!! through His Son!

[@godschild2012ful]

I’m glad I’m apart of the traditional church like this, God first no competition building each other up helping to recognize each other’s gifts etc. I’m not sure what going on now!! It’s so sad but I’m holding on to Jesus until the end!

[@godschild2012ful]

@@omarfernandez5733 you definitely have to do what the Bible says to do! it’s just that there are preachers and church people with their own understanding of what they think it’s saying. It seems that most of them on this panel are lost because they don’t have the understanding of what the Bible is saying and most likely those preachers didn’t have understanding themselves. That’s very sad. I know young people are going through I hope they find a a relationship with Jesus 1st and then he will lead them to where he want them to go. The Bible states how can they hear without a preacher and how can that preacher , preach except he is they are sent meaning sent by God . Im sure u know this already but I’m paraphrasing but the scripture is Romans 10: 14-15. So many are not sent!!!!!

[@LivingOutLoudwithLJClements]

THANK YOU!!!!

[@carladraffen9145]

I remember having a lot of these same questions and got convicted with “Why not me?”. Maybe instead of leaving, we become the person who we’re looking for and create a space for questions and to wrestle with doubt, and allow God to do the rest.

[@imanimalaika7734]

Amen!

[@anthonyhall3425]

Absolutely !!

[@ryheisha2796]

I totally agree my pastor use to say that maybe the reason your bothered by this is because you were meant to change it.

[@timcreekmur2770]

Peace Carla. In response. I do also, respond as a "Believer/Christian". Though I understand there perspective, for when utilizing, and placing the word.."CHURCH', as the subject of their placed concerns, issues, etc, We must knowledgeably, and with scriptural "EXEGESIS, not use the "WORD OF MEANING"....(CHURCH), as the core of what Yahweh/Yeshua allowed believers to be know as. A). As studied Believers, Christians, 3rd - 4th Century A.D, as Tradition holds that the first Gentile church was founded in Antioch, Acts 11:20-21, where it is recorded that the disciples of Jesus Christ were first called Christians (Acts 11:26). Therefore we all have inclusion in that too, as the Greek word for "DISCIPLES" is.......(A LEARNER). B). Whether we find ouselves, AS CHRISTIANS, gathering, hooking up, meeting, assembling, etc..amongst and with one another, the very PLACE of meeting up, gathering, is not DIMENISHED to whatever kind, way, and type of issues, problems, that HUMANS, present and bring to one another..AS BELIEVERS.... Yeshua inspired disciple MATTHEW/LEVI, to write this unto the world... 1. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. 2. The parable relates how servants eager to pull up weeds were warned that in so doing they would root out the wheat as well and were told to let both grow together until the harvest. C). Finally to express my Sista, YAHWEH his Almight self, does prescribe our gathering together, every now and then by attributing this letter to the Ancient Hebrew/Christians: (HEBREWS 10:23-25) 1. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching. So, in our human embodiment, how to we rectify, (dealing with social concerns of others, at WORK, OUR HOUSEHOLDS, CHILDREN, COUSINS, PLAYING WITH OTHERS IN SPORTS, WALKING DOWN THE STREETS DEALING WITH HUMANS, WIFE, HUSBAND, YADA, TO YADA, YADA......................Yet, we trust and believe the Yaweh/Jesus is...LONGSUFFERING... AND HE PROVES IT, GRAPHICALLY.. (NUMBERS 14:18) The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Mature up Christian Saints/believers, the world is fallible,, by way of Adam and Eve's, THE INITIAL DISOBEDIENCE... LET GOD SEPARATE THE TARE......

[@craigacook8360]

In COGIC it's different real different. I was in COGIC it was stressful when I left five years ago I felt stress free. I do ministry outside the building.

[@juniamyr]

The woman at the end that said she spent her whole life in the church and has nothing to show for it and doesn’t have the knowledge to argue with somebody, pretty much answered the question of why she has nothing to show for it. You have to take it upon yourself to get the knowledge. Think of it this way. If you’re trying to live a healthy lifestyle but you only eat right and exercise once a week you can’t complain that you don’t see results. I know how it feels to feel burnt out with church so I get their points but I’ve also realized to make the focus God and not religion. Religion can be a bad thing if you don’t know why you’re doing it. Be blessed

[@spraytechsolutions7609]

E

[@tameracoates398]

Exactly! They were more concerned with making sure they were DOING everything “right”.That’s the true definition of RELIGION! And it isn’t a RELATIONSHIP with Christ. It’s almost like they are Catholic…They’ve all been around the WRONG people.

[@nickyr3860]

@@spraytechsolutions7609Christians need the right tools to decipher the bible outside of the the bible itself which has been translated to English, which is an insufficient language for many spiritual texts. The church needs to be honest about that.

[@JayLHarris]

I left church because I was tired. I had volunteered for over 10 years and needed a mental break. I was tired of hearing about loyalty, money, and winning mentality. It became more about obtaining tangible things and less about the intangibles that keep us grounded. Honestly, I do miss church, but I have way more peace in my life since I left Thank God I was raised to read and study the Bible on my own.

[@henryj.paydenjr.6590]

As a Bible teaching Pastor, I teach God’s Word, but I fully recognize that the church has failed these young people with Pharisaical behavior. Listening is Loving. It allows you to hear what you might not hear. It gives those who care an opportunity to show Christ's compassion, instead of hammering people with truth. Truth is balanced with love and vice-versa. Thanks for doing this, and I promise, I will keep listening.

[@timcreekmur2770]

Peace Pastor. In response. I do also, respond as a "Believer/Christian". Though I understand there perspective, for when utilizing, and placing the word.."CHURCH', as the subject of their placed concerns, issues, etc, We must knowledgeably, and with scriptural "EXEGESIS, not use the "WORD OF MEANING"....(CHURCH), as the core of what Yahweh/Yeshua allowed believers to be know as. A). As studied Believers, Christians, 3rd - 4th Century A.D, as Tradition holds that the first Gentile church was founded in Antioch, Acts 11:20-21, where it is recorded that the disciples of Jesus Christ were first called Christians (Acts 11:26). Therefore we all have inclusion in that too, as the Greek word for "DISCIPLES" is.......(A LEARNER). B). Whether we find ouselves, AS CHRISTIANS, gathering, hooking up, meeting, assembling, etc..amongst and with one another, the very PLACE of meeting up, gathering, is not DIMENISHED to whatever kind, way, and type of issues, problems, that HUMANS, present and bring to one another..AS BELIEVERS.... Yeshua inspired disciple MATTHEW/LEVI, to write this unto the world... 1. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. 2. The parable relates how servants eager to pull up weeds were warned that in so doing they would root out the wheat as well and were told to let both grow together until the harvest. C). Finally to express my brotha, YAHWEH his Almight self, does prescribe our gathering together, every now and then by attributing this letter to the Ancient Hebrew/Christians: (HEBREWS 10:23-25) 1. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching. So, in our human embodiment, how to we rectify, (dealing with social concerns of others, at WORK, OUR HOUSEHOLDS, CHILDREN, COUSINS, PLAYING WITH OTHERS IN SPORTS, WALKING DOWN THE STREETS DEALING WITH HUMANS, WIFE, HUSBAND, YADA, TO YADA, YADA......................Yet, we trust and believe the Yaweh/Jesus is...LONGSUFFERING... AND HE PROVES IT, GRAPHICALLY.. (NUMBERS 14:18) The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Mature up Christian Saints/believers, the world is fallible,, by way of Adam and Eve's, THE INITIAL DISOBEDIENCE... LET GOD SEPARATE THE TARE.....

[@michellewright99]

God bless you for being open to learn and listen.

[@joy3631]

I appreciate this. Many of us x churchers know the truth. It's way deeper than knowledge. The most cold hearted person can have all of the knowledge in the world. They can look you directly in the face and tell you that you had "religion, not a relationship" with a smile on. As if the other person hasn't questioned that. As of those statements don't destroy them further. I stopped respecting older saints for the most part to be honest because many off them don't really know the the word; they know surface level scripture that EVeryone memorizes ( and they know churchy phrases (head not the tail, religion not relationship, forsake not the gathering of saints....(I know these are scripture bits) the point is. The never explain things like " Jacob I loved but ESAU I HATED." Or "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy" (I'm rusty. Can't think of more...also this is long. Lol. ) Just thank you for having your position. It's too rare. And people are tired of surface level parroted responses.

[@mahlatsemaseeme5056]

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing."

[@jessielynn]

This makes me appreciate my church so much more. I’m not experiencing these issues. We are a non-denominational, come as you are church. I am able to invite my gay friends, Mormon friends and friends who have never been to church and they’ve all felt welcomed.

[@benjaminmcbath1846]

Same here my church is the same!!!

[@Kristin-mk4js]

Sounds like a great church ❤🙏🏾 God is STILL on his throne. I loved this comment after so many bad ones.

[@henryj.paydenjr.6590]

One more thing. Speaking about the Black Church, many Black Pastors have failed to "study to show themselves approved, unto God" in regard to not only being knowledgeable of God’s Word, but of those subjects that the Word addresses and confirms in the sciences, i.e., Mental health, sociology, anthropology, etc.

[@michaelfarmhand]

Thank you for saying that. I agree with you a thousand times!

[@90ejb]

You’re very right. 2 Timothy 2:15 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

[@brahmabkitty03]

I feel like I was forced to go to church but I was hurt a lot by the church. My life is good now that I’m not going. I’ve been able to separate from a lot of toxicity and God has shown me some true colors of some.

[@Edward_Strong1982]

I’m 39 years old. Raised in church, singing in a gospel group, traveling etc.. and I was miserable. Like me these individuals walked away from RELIGION not God. Religion is VERY oppressive and can be very cult like at times. You are not allowed to have a kind of your own and you definitely better not asked questions. And if you do you get the “ it’s in the Bible “ with no education or understanding. Not to mention I’ve seen ALOT of my adulthood in these churches and it’s a hot mess. The black community has turned church into just something to do. It’s become part of our culture just to go because that’s what we are used too. Since i stepped away years ago my personal relationship with God has finally came full circle. Church is a HUGE distractions. All of the theatrics and showboating and hypocrisy etc. until we start being honest with ourselves more and more young people will continue leave “church”. Church has become TOXIC. But yet people shame you for not going.. make that make sense. I don’t wanna be around a bunch of people playing with God, everybody in the church having sex with a each other, gossip, stealing money, casting judgement on other when their life is a MESS. One thing about it I have a personal relationship with God, and NOBODY can tell me just because I don’t to a bldg with a bunch of toxic hypocrites that I’m a somehow leaving God.

[@kaylawaters2691]

Same to all of this. I'm the same age as well. Church really was a miserable place to be. "Pray about it." "You have to go." or "You need to join and get more involved." are the only answers I've ever heard. No one admits that it is a toxic, clique filled mess. I used to wonder why I didn't fit in. Now I'm glad I don't fit in it.

[@sam896luc]

This is sad because it seems that these young people were not taught the foundational doctrines like man’s depravity and need for Christ. Also sad that their questions were ignored or shifted away. We should be open to answer ALL questions they have even if the truth is hard or harsh to sin practices or traditions which contradicts the scriptures.

[@DJ-uc8mk]

If man truly needed christ then man would NOT have gotten christ from man.. Man would have gotten christ the same way man got oxygen, water and the sun. Nothing man gets from man is a necessity. The things we get STRAIGHT from the Creator, without man playing the middleman, are the true things we need. No baby comes out the womb needing a bible

[@eastsideapologetics6147]

Does man need instruction/education? Say on building a house? Planting? Etc?

[@ItsMe-dr7ir]

@@DJ-uc8mk 100%

[@prosper-ty6gx]

Let's get the why I can't leave the church panel going please!

[@rachel99988]

Yes yes yes

[@tonicrawford375]

I grew up in the Church and still go but I can relate with some of the things mention in this video and the 1st video. And I agree with Sis about Jesus wasn’t mainly in church. I thought that too. I’m like church is cool but sometimes we get too comfortable with the actual building and not actually building beyond the building. Honestly I’ve realized, I’m all Churched out. Too many services and not enough serving. I’ve been seeking God and he has been showing me the more I need to do. Taking it one day at a time.

[@SG-dw4cg]

Im feelin your response sister.

[@staciamj1]

I felt that when the young lady talked about being in metal health. I agree completely. I am a Social Worker for almost 20 years and I believe that mental health like physical health except it happens in the mind. My experience in church has had a negative connotation against getting help for mental health issues and it has turned me off.

[@rickymanning9329]

Being someone who had questions about things I took it upon myself to research and forgive me but I get this notion that some folks don't actually research for the questions they have. The Bible says to study to show thyself approved

[@JDIAthletics]

The observation that these have discussed in a very transparent way is very interesting. The underlying question that comes to my mind is, "if church and tradition was so right and mandatory, why did Jesus have so much opposition from church folk? How could the religious leaders miss who Jesus was?" I must fully say, that the obligation to attend a physical church (or not) should be driven by Jesus. Forsaking not to assemble ourselves together is bigger than going to a designated church. Remember, the early church met at each other's houses - and the body was growing extremely rapidly outside of a religious center. Michael Todd (Transformation Church) said it best, "The church isn't an organization, its an organism." Wherever we go, we bring our temple (which is the body belonging to God) to that space; it would be remiss to think church is only within a certain man-made structure. Wherever two or three are gathered together in His Name - He'll be in the midst. It didn't say "whoever two or three are gathered together in church"... Church is good, when you can attend or not attend in the Freedom The Spirit gives. Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is FREEDOM. Just ask yourself, "am I attending or not attending because I am set free?" (rhetoric).

[@omarfernandez5733]

I just love this conversation so much. All of their viewpoints are extremely valid. It’s heartbreaking that they were given the old “just do it because the Bible says” when there are biblical guidelines for each of these topics. We have to be more empathetic about sensitive items. Love that counseling/therapy was brought into the convo. I could talk about this all day. My recent church search journey has me asking so many questions. Above all, it’s making me more clearly define what it means to be part of “The Church”. Keep it up Jude 3!

[@whatshatnin4572]

With the historic relationship between the church and African people, how do the descendants of the enslaved accept the church.. When i read the old testament, I see that the authors of the old testament were very anti African and I know the church that introduced us to Christianity was very anti African.. So how are we supposed to accept any black church as home

[@omarfernandez5733]

@@whatshatnin4572 REALLY appreciate you asking this question bro. I was just talking to my kids about this the other day. It’s important to dig deep into the history. Our West African ancestors actually received the Gospel of Yeshua from east Africa before the cross-Atlantic slave trade was a thing. The history of East African believers can be traced right back to the Ethiopian Eunuch in Acts chapter 8. Yo go to the “Tru-ID Apologetics” channel or look up Dr. Vince Bantu. The information will bless you my guy!

[@whatshatnin4572]

@@omarfernandez5733 WoW.. Thats a trip how you talk to your kids about this.. A few years ago I wanted a family so I started looking into things like this so i can tell my future kids the right information.. Now i gotta babygirl who just turned 4 months today. I hear what you saying about our ancestors learning about Christianity from East Africa or Ethiopia for that matter. But here is the thing. I look at Christianity as in institution.. And institutions have literature and buildings.. And in this case the literature would be manuscripts and bibles and the buildings would mostly be churches. The Ethiopians did not create a Christian church or write a bible until after St. Frumentius around 330 AD. Ethiopians and Egyptians were master builders and you will not find an Ethiopian Christian Church until around 333 AD.. And in that church you will see several depictions of deified Europeans. And the same thing goes for their bible. I realized that in Africa, you will never see the African Christian Church or bible before you see the European Christian soldier, missionary or slave master. In West Africa the first Christian Church was built by the Portuguese around 1450 something.. And it was built right next to the dungeons where the Christians kept our ancestors.. In the late 1700s the Dutch built another Christian Church right on top of the female dungeon where the Christians held our female ancestors. Also if we would have learned about Jesus and Christianity from the Ethiopians it would not have taken Black Folks in America 300 years as a people to know that Jesus was not white according to the bible.. And if our people were already familiar with the bible and Christianity, The Portuguese would not have had to draft up legal documents making it legal to convert us while enslaving us and taking our land. If you look up the Dum Diversas by Pope Nicholas around 1452 you can read this for yourself.. They even made it legal for them to force us into being baptized. If we already were subscribed to the bible, these legislations would not have been necessary. We would have churches that predate when the Christian slave masters first hit West Africa Now if you got some new information, I would be glad to hear about it One moe thang Bro. If you got the time, look up Philip Quaque. He was the first African to be ordained as a preacher by the Church of England. He was used to help convert our ancestors while the Europeans were enslaving us. If we were already Christians, the Europeans would not have had to send Philip Quaque to Europe to get schooled in spreading the gospel

[@juinds4]

We all have to get to the point where we deny ourselves and pick up our cross and follow... Whatever that looks like for u.. Doesn't mean become a zombie.. But rather allow Jesus to lead u ... Its A relationship That you can't allow anyone else to dictate but you and the holy spirit.. ..selah

[@timcreekmur2770]

Peace ChadDanFan. In response. I do also, respond as a "Believer/Christian". Though I understand there perspective, for when utilizing, and placing the word.."CHURCH', as the subject of their placed concerns, issues, etc, We must knowledgeably, and with scriptural "EXEGESIS, not use the "WORD OF MEANING"....(CHURCH), as the core of what Yahweh/Yeshua allowed believers to be know as. A). As studied Believers, Christians, 3rd - 4th Century A.D, as Tradition holds that the first Gentile church was founded in Antioch, Acts 11:20-21, where it is recorded that the disciples of Jesus Christ were first called Christians (Acts 11:26). Therefore we all have inclusion in that too, as the Greek word for "DISCIPLES" is.......(A LEARNER). B). Whether we find ouselves, AS CHRISTIANS, gathering, hooking up, meeting, assembling, etc..amongst and with one another, the very PLACE of meeting up, gathering, is not DIMENISHED to whatever kind, way, and type of issues, problems, that HUMANS, present and bring to one another..AS BELIEVERS.... Yeshua inspired disciple MATTHEW/LEVI, to write this unto the world... 1. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. 2. The parable relates how servants eager to pull up weeds were warned that in so doing they would root out the wheat as well and were told to let both grow together until the harvest. C). Finally to express my brotha, YAHWEH his Almight self, does prescribe our gathering together, every now and then by attributing this letter to the Ancient Hebrew/Christians: (HEBREWS 10:23-25) 1. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching. So, in our human embodiment, how to we rectify, (dealing with social concerns of others, at WORK, OUR HOUSEHOLDS, CHILDREN, COUSINS, PLAYING WITH OTHERS IN SPORTS, WALKING DOWN THE STREETS DEALING WITH HUMANS, WIFE, HUSBAND, YADA, TO YADA, YADA......................Yet, we trust and believe the Yaweh/Jesus is...LONGSUFFERING... AND HE PROVES IT, GRAPHICALLY.. (NUMBERS 14:18) The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Mature up Christian Saints/believers, the world is fallible,, by way of Adam and Eve's, THE INITIAL DISOBEDIENCE... LET GOD SEPARATE THE TARE.....

[@latress2871]

I'm like Tish. I wanted to know the history, why are there 66 books, the Septuagint,, Apocrypha, Council of Nicaea,etc. Just because you have faith doesn't mean you no longer have a brain. I threw all the "churchy" stuff away. One of my gfs and I say we're done with what we call "black church rhymes". Much of those things people say aren't in the Bible anyway. Or they simply say "pray about it". Ok yes and what else? We live in a natural world too. That's like saying I want a job and the Lord will provide but I don't submit a resume. Where is the practical application of the Word for life being taught? I could go on and on about this. Anyhoo I'm free now. I ask questions about things I don't understand, admit to things that I don't agree with in the Bible, etc. I have a relationship with God and am not bound by rules of church folks.

[@arthurburgest9803]

I thank God I have a real healthy church experience. Didn't always have it but I'm blessed with it an I found as a minister creating a loving fulfilling safe environment is easy

[@jacklinmiller1336]

Thank you for this platform. It's healthy to come together and talk - reason. Important to have a safe space to do so....

[@flyKayzette]

They need a relationship with Holy Spirit, He will lead and guide us into all truths… we are not to be guided by how we feel…and Gods will is not always comfortable..

[@whatshatnin4572]

Why do we refer to a holy spirit as a "he"?

[@lindasanderson4829]

@@whatshatnin4572 He is the Third Person on the Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit with the masculine pronouns “He, Him, etc. (John 14:17). He is not an “It”; He is Spirit, but still a Person. 🙂

[@whatshatnin4572]

@@lindasanderson4829 Do we have any facts to support these claims are we just got to believe what we read in the bible.. If the holy spirit is a "he" does he eat sleep and walk. Does "he" have male characteristics that qualify him as a "he" They say claims are made in the literature but those very claims are verified in the field.. How can i verify this holy spirit is a "he' claim made in the bible. How can i verify that god is a "he" When you look at the sun, what about the sun tells you that it was made by a "he" If you never saw a bible how would believe that the god of the bible create the sun. Lots of questions huh?

[@sspann11]

@@whatshatnin4572 A Christian's perspective starts and ends with the bible. Read about the Dead Sea Scrolls found in caves in the 1940s. They were carbon dated to a thousand or so years before Christ. Those scrolls contained every book in the Old Testament except Esther and many of the biblical manuscripts closely resembled the Masoretic Text, the accepted text of the Hebrew Bible from the second half of the first millennium until today. These scrolls were 1000 years older than them. Look up the historians of the bible days who aren't even Christian and their accounts pretty much matched what is written in the bible. (Josephus). I walk and live by faith, but I don't just blindly follow the word of God. There is factual evidence that it is true. So yes, the Holy Spirit is a He, because the Bible says so

[@whatshatnin4572]

@@sspann11 Thanks for the reply. Yes i am familiar with the Dead Sea Scrolls.. I am also a little familiar with the Greek Septuagint which is not fragmented and predates the Dead Sea Scrolls. But neither the Scrolls are the Septuagint date back to the time of Moses so we dont even know who wrote those old testaments. We was raised to think Moses wrote them but that is far from the truth. I have looked at what historians have said and several of the old testament stories do add up.. Even according to the nonChristian historians.. But there are several other stories that do not add up. In fact the consensus on many of the old testament patriarchs are all mythological characters. I'm familiar with Josephus as well. Interesting character. But none of this proves that the Holy Spirit is a "he" At this point, the Holy Spirit being a "he" is nothing but a belief. There is nothing outside the bible that supports this claim. Other facts of the bible dont carry over to the Holy Spirit being a "he". I have never truly verified Christianity. History says that Black Folks in America were introduced to Christianity by slave masters. So with that being said I try to verify everything i can before i just believe in it. I know that getting your doctor, education, medicine and food from a slave master could be extremely dangerous. So anything that my ancestors and elders have passed down to me that they got from our former oppressor needs to be verified before i pass it down to my babies. Hence all of the questions.

[@sherronwalker3749]

My prayers are with all of you for discernment and God's grace

[@dalishashingler7803]

I appreciate this so much. I'd like to share something about the elders in my home church related to this conversation. As I think about the answers some of the elders gave me in my home church, I recognize they did not have access to materials that would answer some of my questions because of their marginalization. As it pertains to issues of mental health, my church family did not understand some of the issues in the ways we can make sense of them now. I share those illustrations to say that I think we could give our elders grace for some of the ways they answered (or did not) our questions because they may have done their best given what they had. I'd also add that they may not have operated with the level of humility they always should have when they didn't have the answers and that can be a lesson to us.

[@Kristin-mk4js]

❤❤❤❤AMEN!!!! Because Chile these comments are rough on our ancestors and they were only doing the best they could. The only reason why OUR CRY BABY SPOILED 🍑s know is because of THE INVENTION OF GOOGLE ‼️

[@goyensjonathandjalmoztfr33]

Thats What real Christianity looks like listening quietly and showing love and speaking carefully always thinking before you speak. Even when you know the answers in depth timing is everything b/c were all flawed and we need to keep that fact in mind always. oooweee that was hard for me to sit through and very humbling self revealing convicting and educational Ty for this!!! Cant wait for future episodes !!!!

[@dtweezyification]

I greatly appreciate Lisa's comment at the end. We can experience doubt. We can also overcome it.

[@jssberry]

"That's what I have for the next 6 hours." That's gotta be my COGIC people. 😂😂 Boy we be IN there! I'll be honest. I felt that ping hit my chest when I first saw the title, but then I thought, "Everyone has a reason. And sometimes people NEED to leave because the environment they're in is hindering them spiritually or is toxic." We can learn so much more just by listening instead of being ready to strike folks down. I think this is a reminder that people who left didn't leave God. They left a place, but they didn't leave God.

[@itzsoomaajr9957]

Facts. They left a place that didn’t feel good. They didn’t leave God.

[@theclariontube]

It sounds like they never experienced a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. They just experienced religion. Religion apart from Christ is vain and dead. The solution for this problem is simply a true relationship with Christ. Everything else will find its proper place when Christ is the Lord of your life.

[@mrsbdubc2174]

All of what you said!!

[@lamontedwards9293]

Yeah I agree

[@missmytime]

That may or may not be true. But there’s a deeper issue here. if the church continues to be a stumbling block regarding many of the issues they raised, then our personal relationships with Christ are a moot point. We cannot claim to love God if we don’t know how to love our neighbor. Many of us (not saying you) think we have a personal relationship with Christ. Yet instead of loving our neighbors, we are bonafide professional stumbling blocks to them, and we don’t care that we are. Not all, of course. But this happens enough that it’s fair to say that this is a pervasive problem, and i think that’s the bigger issue.

[@dahunter]

Agreed! 💯

[@DJ-uc8mk]

How does a descendant of a slave have a true relationship with a god that they learned about through their slave master.. Tell jesus to get with us without the European slave master middleman

[@anthonyjohnson3334]

Sounds like we need to be better equipped to answer young educated people's questions. And be willing to say I don't know lets explore that together.

[@whatshatnin4572]

Yep

[@cpeacenlove]

THIS!

[@yoelbenyisrael9866]

Shabbat Shalom! I love these conversations! As a former Jehovah's Witness, I can candidly say that as a citizen of Heaven, life is better in the Kingdom of Heaven. Matthew 4:17.

[@thearaward6112]

I left church, sort of, only to end up back. But, a pandemic breeds desperation for God. So, Church met me, when I cried and pointed me towards God.

[@brendaboykin3281]

Very excellent and fruitful discussion. Thank you, Team. 🌹🌹🌹

[@dariusbrown7952]

What rules were so bad, that when they stopped following them, they felt they could still present themselves somewhat holy to God? I'm curious to know. How did they use their jobs to carry out God work? I have so much questions

[@Iceman-oc4ep]

Im glad we are having conversations about this topic but it sounds like they left the church to find what fits what they want to do instead of what they need to do. Going to church is not about finding happiness its about praising God, being around like minded people, and working on being holy. Being Holy is not about happiness, its following in Gods footsteps and then you will find your happiness.

[@nickjones1314]

LOL at not about finding happiness. Thats crazy

[@jjj0026]

Unfortunately, people get tied down into following religious (organized religion) footsteps and not God's footsteps.

[@lifeonleo1074]

Church is a hospital, you dont go to get what you like, you go to get what you need. These people want to fit the doctrines of the gospel into thier life rather than changing and confirming to the gospel message.

[@dahunter]

Facts!

[@Sweet-as-banana]

Now this is the truth. We are fallen people so trying to do right will always be difficult, but it's for our own good. I read the book, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Yuval Noah Harari, and the author states that society was much happier as hunter-gathers. So why did society push forward and never look back? Because the productivity was better and society doesn't measure it's success on happiness. Society measures it's success on output. When we follow the word of God it creates order, when we don't it creates chaos. All one has to do is look at the out of birth rate in the black community. Now tell me that doesn't cause chaos? I'm sure the nights leading up to the out of wedlock child were fun, but look at the outcome. I rest my case.

[@DavidJCathers]

Thank you for opening these dialogues because this has helped me a lot as well. I haven't been to church since the pandemic (other than with family members) and I found myself wondering if I could call myself a Christian anymore just because of my questioning and realizing I don't believe everything I once did. You guys have helped to answer a lot of questions even with others speaking. Love this channel!

[@jamesengland7461]

You don't know what the Bible teaches about sexuality? It's abundantly clear. No excuses.

[@DJ-uc8mk]

Yyep

[@Girlforaction]

Unless there is a talk about David and Johnathan and their relationship in 1st Samuel.

[@DJ-uc8mk]

@@Girlforaction lamp when they was kissing each other until Davis expanded. Lmao. You crazy for that.

[@Girlforaction]

@@DJ-uc8mk 3 Then Jonathan made a covenant with David, because (C)he loved him as his own soul. 4 And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was on him and gave it to David, and his armor, and even his sword and his bow and his belt. If that aint extra gay, I don't know what is-lol.

[@Girlforaction]

@@DJ-uc8mk we have been taught to treat the bible as a rigid, fixed document and it really isn't. I mean there are two creation stories between Genesis 1 and 3.

[@AHSongbird27]

What I loved about church was singing in the choir, going to other churches, choir anniversary, choir rehearsal, the youth fund raisers and outings, summer camp, fellowshipping with other churches (seems nonexistent now), my church family, being part of devotion service, church trips, tent services, there’s so much I love about church. I am so thankful to now have my own personal experience and am saved and thank God the Holy Spirit. As a kid, teen, young adult, church life was amazing. Don’t get me started with the youth choir church anniversary, the marching in, and being a part of Bible study and loving going to church then and now. However with all the stuff going on in church now, I don’t like going as much. I am thankful for my personal relationship with Jesus and gave my life to Jesus at 14. It was amazing. I don’t recall all the rules which is likely because I didn’t go to a Baptist, Pentecostal, apostolic church so I can’t relate to a lot of what’s being said, however, I can now at 42. It’s disheartening. I refuse to let anyone or thing separate me from the love of God. No building, pastor, usher, no title. Thank you Jesus.

[@teamperry8463]

This is a Great Platform and VERY IMPORTANT!!

[@JuliaShalomJordan]

Thank you for this amazing content!

[@britney9669]

To know Jesus is to Love him

[@MissMuttonmeat]

I am happy to see this series come back with a second season. It does a good job illustrating the issues many young Christians have with the Church. I really do love Lisa's eagerness to listen without passing judgement. My only beef is with some people in comments who are making judgemental remarks or just disregarding their doubts with "they don't have a relationship with Jesus." It's infuriating.....

[@marque235]

You said what I was thinking. Let people speak their truth and listen.

[@JFullerTruth]

All answers to questions we have "are" in the word! We may not understand or appreciate any given answer when we've given in to our own fleshly desires We err when we choose another path. There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death." Prv 14: 22

[@PopTalkPodcast]

This is a dope convo!!! Hopefully spreads throughout the church

[@booth4one611]

I would truly love to be apart of these type of conversations. Please come to Iowa.

[@dama_shares]

Thank you for this.

[@tracyreadytv]

I appreciate this place of open dialogue.

[@dr.willisreese]

I love this conversation!

[@ForeverGod3]

It is very important to know the reason why you go to church, to go for yourself because you love God, not for the people there. Remember those that go to church are people just like yourselves. The people can be harsh at time but there is no way to sugarcoat the word of God. The truth is in the word. Study to show your self approved. When you go to church not focusing on the people but focus on God it is very fulfilling. You must be in the right church. I was once in a place where I went to church as a ritual because that is how I was raised, but yet I wasn’t transformed I was still going and going back to the world. I never left even though I was not fulfilling I changed church and that actually transformed me and increased my love for God and church and the people. I love fellowshipping, I actually look forward to Sunday, because my church is like my second family snd we genuinely desire to know God for ourselves not for our parents. Find God for your church and find a church that feels like home not like you are a visitor.

[@ladybthequeenofwellness2022]

Thank you for your program, I've been struggling for so long with so many subjects of the church where I just began to feel like I did not belong in the church anymore but I kept going back year after year fighting this battle but I knew that I love God with all my heart and I put God first and everything but I'm more comfortable outside of the church than in the church I see a whole lot of judgments if they place upon people in the world as well as is no support when you need them the most when you going to your horrifying struggles daily and life you reach out to them you express to them the issues that you're dealing with and some is very horrifying but you don't even get a phone call or knock at the door especially during the time of the coronavirus there has been times with my health issues that I just needed someone to come offered to buy a bag of groceries at the store and I will have to call the church and they would do it but when they did it it'd be quick fast in a hurry and an explanation why they had to leave very soon so I begin to really speak to the Lord recently 2022 I decided I don't want church anymore I will have my own personal relationship as I always have with the Lord I grew up in the church but yet is no longer the same I feel like the church isn't church it is demonic , self and many , many rules, along with recently I was making a way to move from a residence and I set the plan with them when I will give them a call to be prepared to bring them over in to help me to move out they never respond and it's been almost now over 2 months among many other incidents and my eyes begin to open up that I'm done with the church I've tried other churches many times even been at churches for a long time but I'm done with them and I thank you for your program once again God bless you , I believe Jesus answer my prayers through me searching for answers let go let him , one last them I have a dear female friend always talking conviction of sin and this also bothers me because God is a god of love and a sound mind everything is not sin it makes you feel that you cannot even be human in the church and for me I believe a personal relationship just knowing god and loving him because you know he loves you naturally . God bless you

[@tammyikama-obambi7641]

I haven't heard any of them mention praying and seeking the Lord for direction or guidance...maybe they should've tried another ministry. Just as all doctors don't know all things and can't treat every problem...so every ministry isn't for everyone. I'm so thankful for the ministry I attend. We are encouraged to ask questions and to share our thoughts no matter how far off they may seem in order to get help,, direction, guidance, reassurance, prayer...whatever we need. Having spiritual leaders really makes a difference. Are any of these born again (Spirit filled) believers???

[@nickjones1314]

Sometimes that old doctor that you trade in might just be entire belief system. Maybe Christianity is the old doctor being traded in. How long can a religion given to slaves survive amongst people that are now free? Your church is amazing... I never knew a church that would allow members to ask just ANYTHING that they ever questioned.. I have seen churches allow questions in regards to prayer, spiritual gifts, fasting and things of that nature.. But i never heard of a church that allows the members to ask questions in regards to history. If i had your church, I probably never would have left church

[@AudreyWilliamsMusic]

I think what makes people feel fulfilled in general is when they have a sense of community and a true sense of belonging somewhere. Some people find that community in church and others find it elsewhere. Church can be time consuming for those who decide to get involved, and I don't think anyone should be made to feel bad for choosing money over ministry.

[@youngspapercreations]

We get to go to church and uplift others. The Bible says, do not neglect the assembeling of the body. Being outside of the church community will always seems free, it is the broad road. It breaks my heart to heart how these folks feel. We do need to love all people as Christ, but we do not have the last word, God does. The world loves to live without rules.

[@smilingface4761]

So true. I have been hurt in church to my soul by hypocrites. If it were not for the Lord, I would not have made it. Because of my experience of have an encounter with the Holy Ghost, he has helped me to move forward in life. The one thing I can definitely say that if we all either receive the full

[@Mic22795]

Question to panel "Have you read the entire bible at least once?"

[@travisrichmond905]

Does anybody know if the questions/concerns were ever answered/addressed. If so, please share the link.

[@latanyaharris-gooden427]

Great and insightful conversation ..

[@antoniocurryoldchannel9747]

These people have expressed true brokenness within church that aren't biblical. It feels more like religious than transformation.

[@mistermilkman]

Lack of relationship. It's like people who constantly ask God 4 blessings, but never ask God how they can serve Him.

[@brettthomas6327]

@@mistermilkman powerful comment👍👍👍

[@TheOpenCouchPodcast]

Amén!

[@TheOpenCouchPodcast]

I really do wonder how biblically grounded their churches were? Also, it’s dangerous as well to mix your politics with your Biblical understanding. I wonder as well, if they are trying to somehow make the Bible say something that it isn’t saying like… “getting with the times”. Idk

[@hidokenface]

I think we really need to ask ourselves what is the church? Too many times in history a selective group of ppl decide THEY are the church n have dominion over how to interpret and live out scripture.

[@saffylew]

I see the majority of these people were probably culturally christian ie went to church weekly but perhaps had no encounter with this wonderful God of the gospel. I.e. we’re made new by having tGods spirit live inside of them as they humbled themselves to Christ. As someone who grew up in a black church I have come to realise this is a result of many of these pastors did not know how to teach the word of God and preach truth in love. Loving entertainment abs numbers rather than the state of the congregants souls. Church is supposed to be a body of people who know Jesus (have repented for their sins) and are seeking to live as He calls us although we may fail.

[@LutherPittman]

I think we focus more on what people are doing and wearing instead of being obedient to God's word and going to fellowship to worship with flawed brothers and sisters in Christ cause we all aren't perfect and all have fallen short of the glory of God!!!

[@charlesgibson8]

This was interesting. I would love to sit down and be apart of the discussion

[@markhampton1606]

Thank you again for these entriguing episodes. To insert. A pinch of wisdom in my observation. As I listen to the panel state that life is better for them away from church because of the stress that church attendance was creating in their lives, coupled with the answers they were not getting -- should not be glossed over. I believe there are a few dynamics at work here; 1. THE GENERATIONAL DISCONNECT Life is different now than it was however, that does not mean that church leadership does not have the ability to be relevant. It likely means church leaders are not keeping step with these changing dynamic. Certainly God never changes his message, will or purpose but He does change his methods. 2. PEOPLE ARE EXPOSED TO MORE THEOLOGY, RELIGIONS AND INFORMATION THAN EVER. This in itself is creating questions and the answers are not coming often because leaders don't equip themselves to field those questions. So I feel the panel 100!! 3. THE CURRENT GENERATION TO SOME DEGREE IS THE FIRST GENERATION WHO WANTS TO LEAD THEMSELVES. The only problem with that is the lack of context that only actually years on the planet can teach you coupled with the fact that more season leaders have not done a very good of building meaningful relationship with the emerging generation. So much more to be said.... [e-mail]

[@LifewithoutSCA]

At least 2 of them mentioned "rules" and that is why they were relieved to leave the church. I'm wondering if they read the bible for themselves because it does have "rules". Rules is not a reflection of the church, that is the bible. Sounds like they rather just leave their faith, so maybe they should say that instead of blaming the church who is only their to teach these rules which are good for us.

[@AHSongbird27]

Some churches have rules about beards, makeup, how women wear their hair, men’s sideburns, etc. I know from personal experience and it’s weird and ungodly control.

[@MrTimSwain]

This convo is so good. SOME, not ALL of these comments exemplify what these people are saying. They are telling their stories, based on their experiences. Our first response ought to be listening, not trying to find the fault in them. John 9. Maybe they are where they are so God can be revealed and made identifiable through a testimony of these youth in transition. We want to say "they need the Holy Spirit" or "it's about Christ", but we cannot deny the realities of how so many of our Black American churches have failed us. Try working at a national company where people treat you like trash, don't pay well, and no HR. Then tell people stay at the company, because that doesn't represent us, the company is different. Let's listen, let's heal, let's work together for God's glory.

[@imanimalaika7734]

Let me also say that the first century Christians had the spiritual discipline to be able to do healings. This same spiritual discipline enabled them to also endure the persecution they faced. Christians today are too spiritually weak to perform miracles, so all they can tell you to do is "pray about it." You are better off getting professional help since few people today operate in this level of spiritual power. Based on what Jesus Christ said, faith and compassion are what is needed to accomplish the "greater works."

[@DJ-uc8mk]

Amen

[@Peachez4044]

I feel so sad for these young people and their experiences. It is very apparent that their relationship with people in "church" is Always the reason people leave. Tell me about your encounter with God not with people. Explore Jesus for your self and not through other people and their lack of knowledge of God. I pray they and others alike discover the living God through his word and discernment from God.

[@timcreekmur2770]

Peace Tiffany. In response. I do also, respond as a "Believer/Christian". Though I understand there perspective, for when utilizing, and placing the word.."CHURCH', as the subject of their placed concerns, issues, etc, We must knowledgeably, and with scriptural "EXEGESIS, not use the "WORD OF MEANING"....(CHURCH), as the core of what Yahweh/Yeshua allowed believers to be know as. A). As studied Believers, Christians, 3rd - 4th Century A.D, as Tradition holds that the first Gentile church was founded in Antioch, Acts 11:20-21, where it is recorded that the disciples of Jesus Christ were first called Christians (Acts 11:26). Therefore we all have inclusion in that too, as the Greek word for "DISCIPLES" is.......(A LEARNER). B). Whether we find ouselves, AS CHRISTIANS, gathering, hooking up, meeting, assembling, etc..amongst and with one another, the very PLACE of meeting up, gathering, is not DIMENISHED to whatever kind, way, and type of issues, problems, that HUMANS, present and bring to one another..AS BELIEVERS.... Yeshua inspired disciple MATTHEW/LEVI, to write this unto the world... 1. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. 2. The parable relates how servants eager to pull up weeds were warned that in so doing they would root out the wheat as well and were told to let both grow together until the harvest. C). Finally to express my Sista, YAHWEH his Almight self, does prescribe our gathering together, every now and then by attributing this letter to the Ancient Hebrew/Christians: (HEBREWS 10:23-25) 1. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching. So, in our human embodiment, how to we rectify, (dealing with social concerns of others, at WORK, OUR HOUSEHOLDS, CHILDREN, COUSINS, PLAYING WITH OTHERS IN SPORTS, WALKING DOWN THE STREETS DEALING WITH HUMANS, WIFE, HUSBAND, YADA, TO YADA, YADA......................Yet, we trust and believe the Yaweh/Jesus is...LONGSUFFERING... AND HE PROVES IT, GRAPHICALLY.. (NUMBERS 14:18) The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Mature up Christian Saints/believers, the world is fallible,, by way of Adam and Eve's, THE INITIAL DISOBEDIENCE... LET GOD SEPARATE THE TARE.....

[@zackiep2221]

What u r doing here is great

[@mrbigguy6905]

Thank you for this discourse, these are conversations that need to be had. To the young people, you must realize that the church is a community of imperfect people like any other entity. Yes, we are called to higher standard, but there still going to be a level of brokenness and dysfunction present. There are people that are going to place their own agendas and ideologies above the organizational creed/goals. There is no community inside or outside of the church that is free of this. There are hypocrites in every religion and sector of society - even among those who claim inclusion and integrity. if you look beneath the surface you will find out these claims are conditional and not applied consistently within the community as claimed. You will still find people who are marginalized within these "inclusive" circles..... Maybe the change starts with you??..Instead of leaving the church, why not lead the charge to fix it ?? Think about the heroes of the Civil Rights movement.. Did they just abandon their cause because they faced push back from their oppressors ?... No, they kept their charge until the change happened. To the leaders, Yes - you do have responsibility to adhere to biblical truths as they endure forever; however you must remain cognizant of the times and recognize that a paradigm change is required to reach Millennials , Gen Z and certain communities. There is no better example of this than the apostolic letters in the New Testament. Most of the Apostles were Jewish, but they understood a different type of discourse was needed to reach the Gentiles. The apostles were also willing to address the more difficult questions of the faith and show receipts to support their theology. I realize this may be an uncomfortable place for many christian leaders that belong to older generations - as they were taught not to challenge leadership (Gen X and older) ... But a competent leader, regardless of their age, will not shut down this type of interaction. They will have studied to show themselves approved and be prepared answer every man.

[@yahsfavoritedaughter380]

This is what is needed q&a although i dont agree with many of their perspectives i too left the church more for reverence of the words sake church is definitely a tradition of man and their doctrines dont take the word for a whole much like the pharisees of the bible days would love to have local conversations like this but people not ready 🗣

[@DJ-uc8mk]

Black Christians are not ready. They not ready for a deep conversation about this.. Any conversation at the level of the African dude at the end of the couch and beyond is not supported by black Christians. The black Christian can reach the gay dude and the over weight sista.. maybe.. But that African on the end... smh He done messed around and found some history.. They not willing to have those type of discussions

[@Trendolyn78]

I’m a believer and many of these comments are as toxic as the churches discussed. There is rarely accountability in smaller churches just messy. It does interfere with the flow of the Spirit when order is ignored.

[@timcreekmur2770]

Peace The Rediscovery of Trendolyn. As I'm not specifically aware of the Statistics of smaller membership churches". In response. I do also, respond as a "Believer/Christian". Though I understand there perspective, for when utilizing, and placing the word.."CHURCH', as the subject of their placed concerns, issues, etc, We must knowledgeably, and with scriptural "EXEGESIS, not use the "WORD OF MEANING"....(CHURCH), as the core of what Yahweh/Yeshua allowed believers to be know as. A). As studied Believers, Christians, 3rd - 4th Century A.D, as Tradition holds that the first Gentile church was founded in Antioch, Acts 11:20-21, where it is recorded that the disciples of Jesus Christ were first called Christians (Acts 11:26). Therefore we all have inclusion in that too, as the Greek word for "DISCIPLES" is.......(A LEARNER). B). Whether we find ouselves, AS CHRISTIANS, gathering, hooking up, meeting, assembling, etc..amongst and with one another, the very PLACE of meeting up, gathering, is not DIMENISHED to whatever kind, way, and type of issues, problems, that HUMANS, present and bring to one another..AS BELIEVERS.... Yeshua inspired disciple MATTHEW/LEVI, to write this unto the world... 1. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. 2. The parable relates how servants eager to pull up weeds were warned that in so doing they would root out the wheat as well and were told to let both grow together until the harvest. C). Finally to express , YAHWEH his Almight self, does prescribe our gathering together, every now and then by attributing this letter to the Ancient Hebrew/Christians: (HEBREWS 10:23-25) 1. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching. So, in our human embodiment, how to we rectify, (dealing with social concerns of others, at WORK, OUR HOUSEHOLDS, CHILDREN, COUSINS, PLAYING WITH OTHERS IN SPORTS, WALKING DOWN THE STREETS DEALING WITH HUMANS, WIFE, HUSBAND, YADA, TO YADA, YADA......................Yet, we trust and believe the Yaweh/Jesus is...LONGSUFFERING... AND HE PROVES IT, GRAPHICALLY.. (NUMBERS 14:18) The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Mature up Christian Saints/believers, the world is fallible,, by way of Adam and Eve's, THE INITIAL DISOBEDIENCE... LET GOD SEPARATE THE TARE.....

[@whoisfredwillis]

Is there any resolution to this conversation or is this just venting? Perhaps I missed it and if I did, forgive me. I think it's sad that they have these experiences and viewpoints. I think the Jude 3 project is the perfect place to bring questions, and I hope their fears, qualms and injuries are confronted having come in direct contact with the Jude 3 Project. I really do hope that they return to God, serve Him fully and find an assembly of believers to fellowship with.

[@charistart6027]

I honestly believe all of the panel has a relationship with Christ. They just have questions (like we all do along our journey). They didn't get the support, wisdom, transparency, honesty, etc that they were seeking. Also, the "representation" of Christ (church folk) is not looking good to a lot of young people. We have to realize that this generation and the ones behind it desire authenticity (not perfection) when it comes to their beliefs. People forget that they haven't always been in Christ and instead of embracing someone in their imperfections, people want to judge them. We're so caught up with tallying sins that we forget about the greatest commandments (LOVE the Lord they God with all Thy heart and LOVE Thy neighbor as thyself( but maybe people don't love themselves). Just Keep in mind we all have to give an account. ❤

[@CoreyWilkerson]

Much needed conversation.

[@ChellyTheGreat]

♥️♥️♥️♥️

[@Sweet-as-banana]

If anyone is questioning anything, why not read a book on apologetics or history book? That never comes up in these conversations. Libraries exist.

[@DJ-uc8mk]

History says that us black folk got Christianity from white slave masters.. This is why the preacher never preaches history.. History says snakes dont talk and women do NOT come from the ribs of sleepin men.. History says that Moses never existed. Once the black man finds history he will be gone from Christianity

[@Sweet-as-banana]

@@DJ-uc8mk Christianity was in Africa before white people even knew what it was. And I got Christianity from my parents. Blocked! Not interested in your bitterness.

[@DJ-uc8mk]

@@Sweet-as-banana Aw man why you block me.. I aint bitter. Peace and Love

[@tjisrael]

@@DJ-uc8mk The Bible is true, we just learned it from liars. Israel is a black nation that got scattered in slavery for disobedience.

[@DJ-uc8mk]

@@tjisrael LOL So we got a true bible from some liars.. These liars lied about medicine, food, history, treaties, 40 acres and a mule - They lied about everything BUT they was telling the truth when they gave us a book that has talking animals and 500 year old men building boats?? Cmon Bruh.. Cmon now.. Snakes dont talk..

[@peace4102]

This is good

[@generationalcursebreaker5397]

I'm not going because I have been church hurt I now have ptsd because I feel like I dont belong in the church that I go to. I don't get acknowledged, I got bullied, I gave my tithes faithfully and was faithfully in church I wasn't even a member, I feel alone people are mean they don't talk to me they act like I dont exist so I will not be going to church! It's toxic and I'm more happier at home on Sundays

[@mosl2te]

Yes it is.

[@SG-dw4cg]

Your life is better?

[@SherrellMooreTucker]

This series is great!

[@ninafrederick6048]

The church is not the building,the church is the people💖

[@marquessalley3924]

The bible says dont forget to assemble together like some do...I dont think God intended for us to not be apart of a church thou

[@Atmospherechanger37]

They all are looking at it like a chore.....of course they would say that. If It was about relationship then you wouldn't see this type of response. Because the right ministry isn't about just the 4 walls!

[@joannajoi]

That “yearning” is the Holy Spirit calling you to himself, because the law of the lord is written on the heart of man… your conscience KNOWS that the “fulfillment” you think you have is not true fulfillment. 💕beautiful conversation. May God draw them BACK to him.

[@hidokenface]

How do u know they are away from him? They are away from a traditional church body. The church ,as we’ve seen throughout history, does not equal God.

[@ReneeAnon-ebooks-music]

Watching this, I could see the ancestors sitting in a circle trying to let go of the systems of slavery.

[@whatshatnin4572]

The Christianity system of slavery seems to be the hardest one to figure out

[@eastsideapologetics6147]

The ancestors enslaved one another. I have sources to back this claim.

[@whatshatnin4572]

@@eastsideapologetics6147 and they played a major role in catching slaves for the European Christians to convert and enslave for centuries

[@eastsideapologetics6147]

@Whats Hatnin any sources? I have sources to prove that Slave Masters weren’t Christians

[@whatshatnin4572]

eah.. There is tons of sources. I'm actually glad you asked. Most Christians dont really ask for evidence or sources that go against what they already believe. I hope you not wasting my time and actually look at the sources i give you.. Check me out..

[@Living2PleaseHim]

One thing we must understand is regardless to what has been experienced in church, Jesus Christ is still the same from everlasting to everlasting. People change not God. The things that have been expressed here are not biblical. We must be careful how we are so concerned with living our lives the way we choose to without acknowledging the truth of scripture. You are either for God or against Him, there is no middle ground. You have free will to do as you choose. However, please remember, you can pick your choices, but not your consequences. We must be completely sold out and dedicated to the Lord and the principles of His word. Therefore, If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature, the old things are passed away; behold all things have become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17. Regardless to these individuals being raised as believers, it’s clear through the conversation that, while they are all educated professional individuals, they are spiritually immature, as they were taught church and not true relationship with Jesus Christ. The enemy has deceived them into believing they don’t need the church, which is completely unbiblical. Not one time in this 20:08 conversation, did anyone present their argument through scripture??? And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie and be damed 2 Thessalonians 2:11. At the end of the day, we are all on the potters wheel, and God is continuously shaping and molding us to be more like Him. Our ancestors only presented to us what was taught to them. Stop holding others hostage for your salvation, this walk is personal and tailor made to the individual. The word of God tells us to work out our own soul salvation with fear and trembling, Philippians 2:12. Choose you this day whom you will serve, Joshua 24:15. Let God be true, but every man a liar. Romans 3:4. Let’s get back to the truth of God’s word. #ChristOverCulture. 🙏🏾💜🙏🏾

[@dsprags2012]

Can you go to church for reasons besides self? Like to fellowship with other believers. You might be helping others.

[@rosk3445]

I like this. Huh, didn't know COVID was also a woop from God to awaken people. I think it had become a norm to attend church and yet we didn't really understand some things. sometimes it was guilt conscious, I understand everyone when they say about questioning things that cant be answered. I have faced it and confused my faith and walk with God. I thought I was the wicked and a horrible sinner to even question. But one thing I wish is I wish these platforms were open in church for people to have open discussions.

[@TheOpenCouchPodcast]

I feel bad for their experiences. I would have follow up questions for them but I wouldn’t want to come off insensitive

[@nickjones1314]

What would be your follow up questions. Not too long ago i was in a very similar position as the African dude at the end of the couch

[@timcreekmur2770]

Peace Josue Rivera. In response. I do also, respond as a "Believer/Christian". Though I understand there perspective, for when utilizing, and placing the word.."CHURCH', as the subject of their placed concerns, issues, etc, We must knowledgeably, and with scriptural "EXEGESIS, not use the "WORD OF MEANING"....(CHURCH), as the core of what Yahweh/Yeshua allowed believers to be know as. A). As studied Believers, Christians, 3rd - 4th Century A.D, as Tradition holds that the first Gentile church was founded in Antioch, Acts 11:20-21, where it is recorded that the disciples of Jesus Christ were first called Christians (Acts 11:26). Therefore we all have inclusion in that too, as the Greek word for "DISCIPLES" is.......(A LEARNER). B). Whether we find ouselves, AS CHRISTIANS, gathering, hooking up, meeting, assembling, etc..amongst and with one another, the very PLACE of meeting up, gathering, is not DIMENISHED to whatever kind, way, and type of issues, problems, that HUMANS, present and bring to one another..AS BELIEVERS.... Yeshua inspired disciple MATTHEW/LEVI, to write this unto the world... 1. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. 2. The parable relates how servants eager to pull up weeds were warned that in so doing they would root out the wheat as well and were told to let both grow together until the harvest. C). Finally to express , YAHWEH his Almight self, does prescribe our gathering together, every now and then by attributing this letter to the Ancient Hebrew/Christians: (HEBREWS 10:23-25) 1. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching. So, in our human embodiment, how to we rectify, (dealing with social concerns of others, at WORK, OUR HOUSEHOLDS, CHILDREN, COUSINS, PLAYING WITH OTHERS IN SPORTS, WALKING DOWN THE STREETS DEALING WITH HUMANS, WIFE, HUSBAND, YADA, TO YADA, YADA......................Yet, we trust and believe the Yaweh/Jesus is...LONGSUFFERING... AND HE PROVES IT, GRAPHICALLY.. (NUMBERS 14:18) The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Mature up Christian Saints/believers, the world is fallible,, by way of Adam and Eve's, THE INITIAL DISOBEDIENCE... LET GOD SEPARATE THE TARE.....

[@hopejk2012]

A ritual reflects an absence of relationship. Just think if you have someone you REALLY love ❤, you don't count the hours that you "have to be with someone" when you love them. You count the time you have until you see them again. My Pastor has taught me it's not a rule it's a relationship. So this is just a indicator of where a person can really get caught in rituals and traditions versus a genuine burning love.

[@marvawilliams3634]

Some of them are really saying that I am not in “church” but I’m still in the KINGDOM. Think about that. Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within you.

[@rolltide2937]

This I know for a fact that these people found “church” not Chirst!!!! Once you’ve experienced the Holy Spirit you can’t go back to living without him in your life!!!! I’ve had seasons in my life when I was a young Christian that I didn’t seek after his presence & every time my life fell apart, and I found myself on my knees crying out to him and he would always show up and the power and anointing would break the darkness off my life!!!! I’ve found a church and a pastor who is a Holy Spirit filled man of God and that alone is a true blessing!!!! You can be in church every Sunday but until you truly believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and ask him to save you and fill you with The Holy Spirit you’ll never truely know him!!!!!

[@MizzKG6]

Can anyone hear the book author and title, he is talking about with the mountains of the kingdom?

[@KatishiaG]

I think he said “The Seven Mountain Prophecy” by Enlow

[@TiffineyRoss]

That concept is not biblical.

[@MizzKG6]

@katisha Thanks!

[@imanimalaika7734]

If you have doubts about the King James Version, then study the original manuscripts in the original languages. Also, remember text without context is mere pretext.

[@DJ-uc8mk]

The original manuscripts in the original language? That dont exist. We have no biblical literaure that dates back to Moses.. the oldest completed old testament t dated back to 400 BCE and it's in Greek... We have mo original literaure when it comes to the gospels. The oldest gospels were written 30 to 90 years after the life of Jesus and they were first written in Greek.. Us Afrcians in America already speak one European language. Why we got to learn another European language to know what god said. Why we got to speak various European languages to get the word of god... For the record with all due respect... there is no original manuscript. there is no original scriptures. We just have copies but no originals... we have no writings from Jesus. we have no writings from Moses

[@imanimalaika7734]

@@DJ-uc8mk If you believe they don't exist, then you see the need for English translations. You are more than welcome to read the earliest manuscripts that DO exist in their original languages. I encourage EVERYONE to be studious enough to learn those original languages and the etymology. That way, you do not have to depend on anyone else's "interpretation."

[@DJ-uc8mk]

​@@imanimalaika7734 I got you

[@imanimalaika7734]

Are we truly living out Ephesians 5? The same preacher telling wives to be submissive should talk to the husbands, too! V27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

[@Nicholas074life]

The girl with the dreads said she feels like she has nothing to show for being at church. And feels like she can’t argue. Well first you shouldn’t have to argue God’s word if you are doing it in the right spirit. Second you have to study the Bible, research,and ask questions. The reason why people struggle so much is because they don’t apply the word to their life. They don’t fully believe. We gonna make mistakes but don’t beat yourself up. Keep pushing don’t quit. Also make sure you in a church that shows love to EVERYONE but don’t condone sin. If you gonna talk about one sin talk about it all. You don’t want people to feel singled out. We all have sin and we fall short. Also if your church don’t believe in mental health you need to show them why metal health is important or find you another church that supports metal health. Men and women who are married be submissive to one another. If you feel you can’t be submissive than maybe you should stay single. In other words a man shouldn’t expect his wife to be 100% submissive now you may find some women who do that. But if yours don’t do that don’t get upset y’all just have to meet in the middle. Give and take. Don’t always expect your partner to take down. We have to humble ourselves. Everything they said there are churches who have answers it might not be the answer they want hear. But the word is tight but it’s right. Nowadays people are so quit to give up on God and blame him for what people say and do. But number one you have to make sure you have a relationship with God and know it’s God.

[@mykingthoughts2224]

The answer to this question has to be both a common answer and an exception. First, the common answer is: No, Christians cannot forsake gathering together (Hebrew 10:25). Members should attend every Sunday possible to worship their sovereign and enjoy the assembly of the saints. Of course, this assembly is not perfect. But this body of people is unlike any other gathering on the planet. It is made of people locked in space and time but on an eternal transition to a heavenly home. If you are of them, do not forsake them.

[@imanimalaika7734]

What is wrong with the commandment to keep the Sabbath holy? I do not understand people who want to call themselves Christians but do not want to keep the commandments. Christianity is not about what YOU want, but wanting what GOD wants. I feel that there is a great need for Christians to see a more authentic expression of church that has yet to be reflected today. It takes courage to demand this or even better, create it. Compare the modern church to the early Church in the book of Acts. That is what I want to see! Not always about miracles, but actually having exponential impact on the surrounding world by spiritually disciplined people. That is what produced the miracles; miracles are a by-product. There is a POWER placed in Christians, but the cares of this world takes our attention from being about our Father's business. Who really has the courage to live out the book of Acts?

[@tjisrael]

Well said sis... “This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.” Matthew 15:8

[@DJ-uc8mk]

There is nothing in nature that represents a sabbath or Saturday. There is nothing in nature that makes Saturday divine. The concept of the Sabbath is man made. None of us were initially told about the sabbath by god... man told us about the sabbath. And we would have never known about the sabbath if man didnt tell us

[@imanimalaika7734]

@@DJ-uc8mk Sabbath is REST. Without it, humans cannot function.

[@DJ-uc8mk]

@@imanimalaika7734 You are correct

[@SG-dw4cg]

The law?

[@rodb66]

It seems like the people in the church just glossed over you ladies and gentleman's questions without any real answers. I wonder how that would answer, "How does prayer change anything if God has a plan"?

[@michaelfarmhand]

The truth is most of the pastors in these churches have not put themselves through the discipline of theological studies. That's the problem.

[@timcreekmur2770]

Peace Michael Farmhand. In response. I do also, respond as a "Believer/Christian". Though I understand there perspective, for when utilizing, and placing the word.."CHURCH', as the subject of their placed concerns, issues, etc, We must knowledgeably, and with scriptural "EXEGESIS, not use the "WORD OF MEANING"....(CHURCH), as the core of what Yahweh/Yeshua allowed believers to be know as. A). As studied Believers, Christians, 3rd - 4th Century A.D, as Tradition holds that the first Gentile church was founded in Antioch, Acts 11:20-21, where it is recorded that the disciples of Jesus Christ were first called Christians (Acts 11:26). Therefore we all have inclusion in that too, as the Greek word for "DISCIPLES" is.......(A LEARNER). B). Whether we find ouselves, AS CHRISTIANS, gathering, hooking up, meeting, assembling, etc..amongst and with one another, the very PLACE of meeting up, gathering, is not DIMENISHED to whatever kind, way, and type of issues, problems, that HUMANS, present and bring to one another..AS BELIEVERS.... Yeshua inspired disciple MATTHEW/LEVI, to write this unto the world... 1. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. 2. The parable relates how servants eager to pull up weeds were warned that in so doing they would root out the wheat as well and were told to let both grow together until the harvest. C). Finally to express my brotha, YAHWEH his Almight self, does prescribe our gathering together, every now and then by attributing this letter to the Ancient Hebrew/Christians: (HEBREWS 10:23-25) 1. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching. So, in our human embodiment, how to we rectify, (dealing with social concerns of others, at WORK, OUR HOUSEHOLDS, CHILDREN, COUSINS, PLAYING WITH OTHERS IN SPORTS, WALKING DOWN THE STREETS DEALING WITH HUMANS, WIFE, HUSBAND, YADA, TO YADA, YADA......................Yet, we trust and believe the Yaweh/Jesus is...LONGSUFFERING... AND HE PROVES IT, GRAPHICALLY.. (NUMBERS 14:18) The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Mature up Christian Saints/believers, the world is fallible,, by way of Adam and Eve's, THE INITIAL DISOBEDIENCE... LET GOD SEPARATE THE TARE.....

[@church.pluspersonalantics9504]

If left the Church for the world 🌎, I think NOT. Most times GOD doesn’t take leaving HIM, lightly.

[@musicguy9101]

Being a loving church is different from winking at sin. Jesus preached repentance, and at the same time he was loving.

[@Girlforaction]

Church/Christianity isnt for everybody and especially for the younger populations in urban areas like DC. And threatening them with hell isn't going to do it, since certain people's lives are already feeling like hell. And I think people need to make peace with that.