Is "Mennonite" a Faith Culture or Ethnic Culture? - Samantha Trenkamp Bender - Ep. 208

[@rexandbillieblevins4012]

I greatly appreciated this topic and discussion!! Samantha is a gifted and articulate communicator that brought much balance to the table. It was very life giving and inspiring! God Bless the good work you’re doing! Thank you!

[@AnabaptistPerspectives]

Thank you, Rex and Billie. We are glad that Samantha was able to come join us for this conversation.

[@Peace4179]

There were a lot of good things talked about in this episode. I appreciate your thoughts Samantha! I think what stands out the most to me is true Christianity is a faith culture, but we each choose for ourselves whether it will only be an ethnic culture and comfortable routine and bubble, or whether it will be true Christian culture. Sadly, there are those you will meet in some Anabaptist settings who are not personal believers, but believe that a certain way of doing things is how they can earn approval from God. That is a way that the devil has been able to get those specific people, because we all are tempted in different ways depending on our situation and circumstances. That does not mean that outward changes should not be done. It just clarified that we are each responsible for our own faith in Jesus and no culture or way of doing things can replace that or do it for us. I understand how the ending comments may have sounded a bit unwelcoming. However, I know these people well enough to know that was not the intent at all. I believe what they were trying to convey is that what makes us true Anabaptists or Christians, as I prefer to say, is not being a part of a certain church. It's simply faith in the Word of God. So you can do that wherever you're at! The little quirks and extra cultural things you'll find in specific Anabaptist churches that stem largely from the Germanic roots of that movement, like is talked about in the following episode, are not right or wrong principals and are not required to be a true Christian! The caution is to not be simply fascinated by the counterculture, because that will quickly fade and you will find all kinds of imperfection. You will need a personal relationship with God to sustain you within or outside of an Anabaptist church.

[@AnabaptistPerspectives]

Thank you for sharing these words, Esther.

[@wifeoftim]

As someone who also was not raised Mennonite I appreciated hearing Samantha sharing. I'm alone in my Anabaptist/Mennonite beliefs in my church. The Mennonite "culture" if you will wasn't for my husband and daughters but they respect my lifestyle choice. Thank you for this very encouraging video.

[@AnabaptistPerspectives]

Thank you for sharing, Regina. Keep pursuing Jesus in whatever Christian community that he gives to you.

[@jackiewright4402]

Thank you for saying in “the community he gives you.” Every way I try to find into a conservative mennonite church is blocked. There are none less than an hour away and no way to get to know people online that can help.

[@EricOberholzer-x6e]

People born into Anabaptism do not need to choose Anabaptism for themselves. They need to choose Jesus for themselves. It's easy to choose the culture you're born into.

[@smplfi9859]

Yep, religion is but a stepping stone to the underlying eternal truth of God. You don't need to abandon your religion to learn the truths and connect to God. Anabaptist have the respect of real stock America (not nonWhites) because they have plenty of children. Please have more children and keep spreading. The meek shall inherit the Earth. My issue is they don't politically protect themselves, so it's up to the rest of us to stop intrusions upon them. The Talmud calls for our preemptive destruction. The Bible tells us that standing strong against demons is easy. I hope one day when there is 100 million /Amish/ that the light of Christ will be returned upon our nation and they will be raised as warriors for Christ. Reconquest starts with repopulation! They don't protect themselves. THEY MUST BE PROTECTED BY OTHERS. Maybe acting to protect them is God protecting them through the rest of us. Children are the future. The /Amish/ have proven they are great stewards of Children, perhaps the best in our lands. THEY DESERVE THE CHILDREN. God doesn't ask for perfection, He asks for faith

[@hannahyoung3533]

Most people who want to join the Mennonites can deal with the written rules, it is all the unwritten cultural expectations that cause people to be uncomfortable or leave. No one wants to always feel like they are being judged or laughed at over everyday things that you simply do differently, not wrong. The irony is that it is the tightknit community that draws people in and it is that same tightknit community that makes people leave.

[@AnabaptistPerspectives]

Thank you for this observation, Hannah.

[@smplfi9859]

It's called sacrifice. Sometimes we do it for our people. The bible is a racial lesson.

[@TheHistoricFaith]

Great job, Samantha! I couldn't have communicated that better. I do believe Mennonites and Anabaptists constitute a faith culture, not an ethnic group, especially when people from outside join and stay. If a community only seeks growth through childbearing, it risks losing its faith culture, potentially becoming merely an ethnic group with faith. (Which is still commendable.) Bringing people out of the world is part of our faith, so I understand that, at least in our community, it is a faith culture with a hint of ethnic group mentality. My wife and I share most of the thoughts and experiences you've expressed in this interview. I realize that I will never be fully recognized as 'Mennonite', maybe 'Anabaptist'. Similarly, as a Chinese missionary, I understood that no matter how long and hard I tried to assimilate, I would always be seen as a foreigner. In these communities, culturally, I will always be perceived by some as an outsider. (Individuals perceive it as they wish.) BUT I don't feel like an outsider in the faith. In many traditional practices, I will never completely understand or fit in; on the contrary, if we bring more people out of the world into the Kingdom of God, we would be stretched as a people into a faith culture, not only an ethnic group but family in our faith.(Which is more commendable)

[@AnabaptistPerspectives]

Thank you for these words and for sharing your experience.

[@smplfi9859]

If you can't help your own, why are you across the world trying to help others? We have plenty of our own poor and houseless. Jesus wasn't just a carpenter, he was a contractor. HE BUILT SOCIETIES for Christ to thrive in. We must have that mindest. Peaceful separatism is our future. You have misinterpreted the message of Christ proselytizing in China. If you cannot win the hearts of your own people, what value does informing strangers do for the lot that God has provided you... your people are your responsibility. White people are sent to raise up the world because we are the final evolution of hominids. That's the story of Adam. Christianity has always been syncronist but for the first thousand years, the lessons were intended for a specific peoples.. Only until after Islamic raids were we able to realize the racial purpose we are provided and our duty to lift up the world. We are minorities and not everyone can be the leader. Only our vessel has the entire capacity of self reflection. Only White Christians were able to take care of themselves, so we were tasked by God with uplifting the world and being patriarchs to them. Simply because we are the only ones capable and have proven able to take care of their own. You cannot paint zebras and expect them to act as domesticated horses. We are living community of Christians and we need to return to Christian Identity. The bible is indeed filled with racial lessons. If you cannot help yourself and your own, how can you help others? Other individuals can connect with God and be called to lead their people. They have just as much capacity for spiritual involution as White people, but the conditions of their physical evolution and the resulting capacity leaves their broader peoples with lesser capacities for internal self reflection. And thus less able to uphold our level of standards for them. Christ compels us to raise the world. Hong Kong, Shanghai, Singapore etc all have their historic built environments constructed by European Christian societies. Joburg, Cape Town, Buenos Aires, Rio, Sydney, Auckland, San Fran, NYC, All intentional Christian societies originally, Start your own church! Just like she says 'we are just people'.. Some people would rather know everyone than worry about a megachurch pastor gay rapping altar children

[@smplfi9859]

Do you know of Saint Phinehas?

[@EricOberholzer-x6e]

Very rarely do "seekers" convert to and stay in Anabaptism. It wasn't until we left the Anabaptists (which we were born into, like 99.9999% of Anabaptists) that we witnessed true evangelism and discipleship. I'm talking about lots of people from the "world" coming to Jesus and joining the community of believers, similar to what was happening in the early Church of the New Testament. Anabaptism is a culture first mixed with Christian faith. Maybe it didn't start that way, but that's the way it is.

[@samanthabender]

"Very rarely" isn't an accurate assessment. There are many people who have come into Anabaptist churches and remained, whether or not that has been your personal experience or not.

[@ReluctantPost]

It depends on _where_ in the conservative Anabaptist world you are referring to specifically, and how you define evangelism. I am coming from the outside and most of what is called "evangelism" today has a very different basis than it did in the Scriptures and among the earliest centuries of Christian testimony--it is principally about someone "accepting" Jesus, not about Jesus accepting them. Luke 9:23-24; Matt. 7:13-23

[@smplfi9859]

You don't need to give up your religion to find the truth of God. Religion is a stepping stone to the eternal truth of God. You are your congregation and the bible is filled with racial lessons. Saint Phinehas comes to mind

[@MarciesWhimsySoaps]

Thank you for this video! Im a single(divorced) 55yr old lady. I did not grow up Mennonite but have been attending a lovely Mennonite church off and on now for almost 10 years. Its so funny because they would actually tell me at first, "we are just people"...I guess I had stars in my eyes...but really, even though they are 'just people' the mennonite church and the people over all to me are beautiful. I feel such peace and love there that Ive never felt anywhere in other churches. I havent joined yet....there are some things my church doesnt allow that I need in my life...social media, etc for my business...but I do consider myself mennonite. I know that some churches allow this but I just love the families where I go now. It is enough for me. Love and Jesus....yep.😊❤

[@blessedrthosesermount99]

You'll never truly fit in. I've been in your exact shoes. You're breaking your own heart, and wasting your own time. Avoid idealizing these people. Seek Jesus instead. Blessings.

[@wifeoftim]

@MarciesWhimsySoaps I consider myself Mennonite too though I'm not attending one. However my beliefs are 100% Mennonite. And please don't listen to anyone who says you will never fit in or belong. You are a part of the body of Christ and that's important.

[@A.RandomLattin]

We have a way of living in boxes. Being comfortable with our church, family, culture, and everything "us". That we can't see outside the box we live in. Oh God, break down our worldly mindset, set us free from "in the box" complacent Christianity. Give us Your vision, to see everyone the way You do. A. Random Lattin

[@SamuelHaydenARC]

That is beautiful and that is how it should be. Thank you for having a heart and not wanting everyone turned away.

[@CdnEnjoyLife]

I enjoy hearing her speak and she is clearly more open and understanding to outsiders. I grew up 100% Mennonite and I can confirm that there are many variations and that churches go by the rules of the elders more than scripture. I was outcasted because my husband had an affair and refused to end it. I was strongly told that I was NOT allowed to get divorced and if I did to keep it quiet and that I could never remarry unless he died. Yet, I was expected to be a full time mom and make imaginary money to support ourselves.....Overall, there are many things that I miss, however, deep down majority of Mennonites are prideful on cultural expectations rather than biblical scripture. That is where I strongly disagree with the Mennonite religion. Scripture allows for divorce in specific circumstances and specifically addresses when one can marry another. You CANNOT cherry pick one liners. Scripture is to be taught as a whole. Read the Bible people...please. Religions are the problem. Do not let anyone manipulate the word of God.

[@AnabaptistPerspectives]

Thank you for sharing this. Where pride is present in our churches, we must repent.

[@michellehochstedler7809]

Not every church believes that way. That is more your strict conservative churches.

[@ruthgoebel723]

So very true.

[@annahoward7356]

I'm very interested in this topic. I'm like 5 minutes in and understand. My parents came into the Mennonites when i was 8 yrs old. My parents gave up when i was 21 and i was 14 when i was baptized. I have done a tremendous amount of research of where the Amish and Mennonite came from to try and understand why the culture is the way it is. Ultimately, though being a Christian believing in Jesus is the goal. My parents had too lofty ideals without realizing people are still just people. If people want to go "plain" they need to become content first in your own life and do research before jumping in. I never truly "belonged and have a place" until I married a Mennonite. I've had people from "general society " come to me so excited about this venture of coming in the Mennonites and i warn them the reality of how it is. Not to discourage but to bring them back to earth and make sure this is really what they want. I was told i would never marry because of my background. I was baptized in a "Charity" in Woodbury, TN church and then attended a true blue Mennonite church and my baptism wasn't accepted so i was baptized again. I was in my teens during all of this so didn't really put it together what exactly was going on. I'm still in the Mennonites with my husband and live a happy life.

[@AnabaptistPerspectives]

Thank you for sharing your experience, Anna.

[@hannahkroon5233]

Not Anabaptist, but absolutely love the foundation of your faith in Scripture and the authority that IT has: your doctrine of man, sin and salvation. Loved listening to this and my heart just resonated! Funny, I would probably align with the belief and community more than the externals.

[@AnabaptistPerspectives]

Thanks for sharing.

[@flowzone1289]

I would say for a large part Mennonite is more of a man made cultural based then Bible based if that makes sense.

[@SamuelHaydenARC]

@Anabaptist Perspectives I hoped you would allow more of the conversation to develop before removing the comments. Can you respond with your thoughts on that conversation? I can see that the man in this video was not comfortable hearing those types of incidents. Can you respond in comments or in a video about your thoughts on this matter?

[@AnabaptistPerspectives]

Samuel, Sorry to disrupt the conversation by deleting comments. One of the individuals wo commented in the other thread badly mischaracterized some things and some people in ways that were not appropriate, honest, or kind. I deleted his comment(s). This may have broken the exchange that happened after his. Since you ask, I can try to share my thoughts on what was being said. Samantha's encouragement (34:30) is to hold fast to Jesus and to hold fast to the word of God. We are 100% on board with this. For some, this can be done well in a Mennonite community. For others, it may not be a great option and they should pursue a relationship with Jesus in a community of another tradition. A Mennonite community may offer a person support and encouragement that is an asset to their journey of discipleship that is exactly what they need and was missing wherever they came from. Their presence in a new community may build up the community and be a blessing for everybody around. This may often, perhaps usually, be the case. For some, though, joining a Mennonite community may not be the best option and encouragement to find community elsewhere may be a good recommendation--perhaps this was the case for the individual in the interaction at the conference that Samantha spoke of. I don’t know. I appreciate that Samantha said, "if God has given you something, share it and build right where you are." Dietrich Bonhoeffer may be expanding on this idea in "Life Together" when he says, "Because God has already laid the only foundation of our fellowship, because God has bound us together in one body with other Christians in Jesus Christ, long before we entered into common life with them, we enter into that common life not as demanders but as thankful recipients." If God has already given Christian community to an individual, whether it is Anabaptist or not, leaving that community for one that better fits personal ideals comes with the risk of elevating our ideals inappropriately high and failure to see the gift of community that God has given to us. This is a risk for all humans. I write all that to say that we agree that there are instances where seeking community among Anabaptists isn't the best option. However, we are also committed to welcome and hospitality. We become uncomfortable where we learn that this isn't offered to those seeking fellowship in a church. In another comment you said, "But over and over again you see this same mindset where someone either says you cannot come, or someone tells a story of someone else who said you cannot come." We grieve this. We lament that this has been the experience of people trying to enter a church. Another commenter spoke of pride that she encountered in Mennonite churches. This too is a sin that we must repent of wherever it is present.

[@SamuelHaydenARC]

@@AnabaptistPerspectives Thanks for the response. I understand. Please feel free to share your opinions in future interviews.

[@Benjamin-jo4rf]

​​@@AnabaptistPerspectivessee Anabaptist perspectives goal is to gently and very carefully touch on some of the darkness that is overwhelmingly abundant amongst the Anabaptist cult community without offending any Anabaptists and without actually confronting the root issues that are responsible for the evil common in the Anabaptist cult communities. They delete any comments that dont fit their narrative and only interview people who will push their agenda of ensuring the Anabaptist cult moves forward into the 21st century, without actually changing anything or making anyone uncomfortable. Especially the top leaders like pope John d Martin or cardinals such as Chester Weaver. The truth is the Anabaptists just attempted to reform the Catholic church when they should have started from scratch

[@AnabaptistPerspectives]

Thank you for articulating how you perceive us. If you’re interested in hearing how we areciulate our approach, feel free to visit this page: anabaptistperspectives.org/about/ Scroll down to “Our conversations” and click “Read more.” It probably won’t resolve your critiques about our approach, but it should clarify what we’re aiming for. Concerning our approach to KZbin comments, we delete very few. On this video, for example, many of the comments indicate disapproval of what we published or other perspectives incongruent with what we generally promote. Usually when we delete comments is because they are spam links or comments that inaccurately or abrasively target and/or name specific people.

[@roberthoover8807]

Part of the problem in this discussion is conflating the Anabaptist / Mennonite culture with being a part of Christ’s church. It is unfortunately, an ethic group. I would disagree that it is faith culture, since to really be a part of it you have to be born into it. The fact that certain last names are recognized as Anabaptist names shows evangelism rarely takes place. The common practice of calling outsiders (even if they are Christians) “seekers” further demonstrates its an ethic group. The term is used to denote a person seeking the Anabaptist culture, not a person seeking to be a part of the body of Christ. At the end of the interview in the example of the PA event, it is especially sad to see when a seeker does come wanting to be a part, you have Anabaptists telling them to “go home” and create their own community. I can’t imagine Jesus saying that. The Mennonites / Anabaptists didn’t build the community they are in today. They were born into it. The way it should be is that people who happen to have an Anabaptist culture go to a particular Church, not create an “Anabaptist Church” that mandates the adoption of the culture to be a member. When is someone going to have the courage to do something different instead of constantly acknowledging the problem without making a change. Jesus came to save people not a preserve a culture.

[@SamuelHaydenARC]

I agree 100%. It's borderline demonic to consistently tell people to go away when they are interested in Christ through this tradition.

[@blessedrthosesermount99]

Hello. I was exposed to Mennonites while out of town for a couple weeks, and because I was so very interested in them, I sought them out here locally and visited the local Mennonite church near my home. As soon as I walked in, I felt like I was seeing heaven. All the LADIES appeared so pure, all the GENTLEMEN appeared so perfect. The children, so well mannered, so well behaved. The adults, so cautiously following Biblical commands. The families, so traditional. All so, perfect....... Me. So flawed, so stained, so sin ridden, so scarred, such an outsider....... The were very polite with me, inviting me to lunches after church, ect. But, I was still an outsider. And, it hurt. I wasn't good enough to a member of their church. I idealized them and that was wrong. Anabaptists are definitely an ethnic group one is born into. Most if not all speak Pennsylvania Dutch like the Amish. Trying to join their church will only hurt your heart. As an outsider, you'll never fit in. Then, Jesus. Jesus reminded me it's Him I need to seek, not them. He loves me, and will never turn me away. God bless.

[@samanthabender]

The comments in this thread have totally missed everything I was trying to express in this interview. Yes, Anabaptistsm does have elements of ethnic culture integrated (which is NOT a bad or evil thing), but my point is that it is first (historically) a faith culture. And that is what I am calling us ALL back to.

[@roberthoover8807]

@@samanthabender Samantha, you are right that there is nothing wrong with having an ethnic culture, and there are many positive aspects of anabaptists traditions. The people individually are wonderful. However, there is unfortunately a side to the anabaptist culture that has elements that are opposed to Jesus especially when it comes to the function of church. The problem is when the culture hinders people from entering the Kingdom of God by requiring things that Jesus never required. This causes hurt to people who are looking for an authentic faith community, only to realize they can never actually be a part. Thank you for your commitment to Christ and for calling us to a faithful life.

[@SamuelHaydenARC]

@@samanthabender Hi Samantha. I am happy you say that but that's not how it comes across. There's no problem with the ethnic part and I in fact love that. I have learned a lot from the ethnic and culture part alone but it is extremely heart breaking that someone, myself included, can gravitate towards the Anabaptist belief and yet theres always this force of denial of entry. This is not how it was at the beginning. When I discovered Anabaptism, in a similar way as your mother did as you mentioned in your first video, I read more and more into it. I had no problem with the culture aspect, nor did I have a problem with the fact that I may be the only one who does not speak plautdietsch. The faith itself is exactly what I was looking for. But over and over again you see this same mindset where someone either says you cannot come, or someone tells a story of someone else who said you cannot come, and no one ever asks that person why. If I told you I have a lovely orthodox church and we have an amazing group of people yet when you ask if you can come I tell you no you may not. Um, start your own back home. I find it hard to believe that anyone around us will think positively of me if I did that to you. Menno Simons didn't want people to stay away if they looked different, or spoke a different language. He as well as the other radical reformers wanted people to turn away from the false teachings. If I remember correctly, Anabaptists were even against slavery in the USA. So I know this mindset of "no new seekers" has to be new. With this said I don't want you to think I am chastising you I am just voicing my opinion on what I think is serious. The world needs to be separate from our faith. The world is where people say you are not good enough, go home. But in the church? Everyone is welcome. You are home. Please understand.

[@ReluctantPost]

13:58 The problem is that statement isn't just unfortunate; it is carnality. It's like an Israelite claiming that, because of their birth, they are saved, or an American believing that being born in this country makes them a Christian.

[@flowzone1289]

Question that I have is where does it say in the Bible to be a Mennonite? A lot of what we do is focus so much on the external things like appearance. The appearance thing is a man made issue. Cape dresses and and men having to wear button down shirts always is not biblical justified.

[@SamuelHaydenARC]

I understand where you're coming from, but it does make sense when you understand tradition, and the reason behind it. It's simply modesty. The problem is if that tradition ever becomes more focused on without the thought behind it, then you have legalism and that is not good.

[@flowzone1289]

@@SamuelHaydenARC So we should dress a certain way because of tradition? Doesn’t that cut out any discerning or allowing the spirit to lead? My concern is that we worry to much about our Mennonite tradition/imagine versus actually letting the Holy Spirit lead us.

[@flowzone1289]

@@SamuelHaydenARC And that tradition and the thought behind it is still a man made thought only giving the people the option to look a certain way.

[@SamuelHaydenARC]

@@flowzone1289 You're right, there's a balance between the reason its done versus a manmade reason. Think of it as a uniform for modesty. Hair covering is in the bible, wearing clothes that pertain to your gender is in the bible. as well as not spending money on useless things that adorn body, like jewelry, etc. Not drawing attention to yourself and not having anything that would make someone else feel bad that they are without. So it would make sense that followers of the bible would want to streamline that into something everyone would agree on (for the most part) and make it as simple as possible.

[@flowzone1289]

@@SamuelHaydenARC Think of it as a uniform just seems legalistic to me. Now on to what you brought up about not drawing attention to ourselves. You said that we shouldn’t wear jewelry because it draws attention. My question is why does drawing attention start and stop with our dress? I hear all the time that we “dress simple” because we are called to live a simple life. Yet how many of us have fancy houses, cars, expensive phones and watches, and a whole host of other material things. Wouldn’t all those be included in drawing attention to ourselves? Seems hypocritical to me.

[@JohnCrook-nf8wy]

The final advice Samantha gives is wise and in the truth.

[@tabras1]

Thank you for your insights and for sharing your lived experience… I heard your request for prayers today while watching Sunnyside Mennonite church’s online service and was blessed that I was able to find this video shortly thereafter! God bless🙏

[@therealtoni]

Thank you for a thoughtful conversation with a well-spoken guest. Thanks

[@AnabaptistPerspectives]

Our pleasure! We were delighted to have Samantha join us for these conversations.

[@fabians6371]

The "you will never be a real Mennonite" part really took me aback. I just felt disgusted by it, and I felt discouraged that the conversation kept going like: "oh, yeah, haha, we do say things like that, huh?". In addition: Why would any seeker ever want to be a Mennonite? Seekers want to be Christians, and are looking for a community in which they can grow, no? A community in which you can get to say something like "you will never be a real X" to a brother/sister without any church disciplinary action, but you do get church discipline for disobeying an unbiblical tradition (for example, a particular way of dressing) is way off the mark.

[@fabians6371]

@@richardreece6712It is telling that the example you give is this: "there are many public and private schools all around THE WORLD that require their students to all dress alike. There are reasons for it" Is this the standard mennonites are aiming for? There might be many reasons to do this or that, but are they Biblical? Isn't that the only thing that matters? Do we see the apostles or early Christians advocating the use of uniforms? Do we see them setting up human rules to make outsiders feel unwelcome or do we see them doing away with rules that were unnecessary and difficult for gentiles to follow (Paul and circumcision, Peter and food rules)? I do agree completely with you in that Anabaptists are the ones who held truer to the apostolic faith during the reformation, something that they still do now. My specific complain is about two issues, not present in all Anabaptist churches, that I think any serious Anabaptist should consider under prayer and looking at Scripture: (1) Is ethnic pride a good thing or sinful? and (2) Are the benefits of our man-made rules worth keeping people outside of our church, especially if we think that we are "truer to the letters written by the apostles and the teachings of Jesus"?

[@Jude_Wheeler]

Yeah it’s unfortunate when folks born in anabaptist background treat outsiders like “they could never be Mennonite”. After all, it’s all about following Christ and being of the family of God, which has no distinction, just as with the Jews. Jews have very much the same outlook about their Jewishness. Because the good Anabaptist ways and practices were founded on being biblical and obeying God. Fortunately, we actually do fellowship with a conservative Mennonite church who does treat us the right way, though we are from a very different background. But I think God is up to something with more people being drawn to conservative anabaptists Biblical foundations. I do think the anabaptist churches are going to have to be stretched, and yet hold onto all they have that is biblical and not instead go liberal as so many have.

[@AnabaptistPerspectives]

Thank you for sharing this, Judah.

[@davidmiller548]

A well-done interview! Thanks.

[@AnabaptistPerspectives]

Thank you, David. We were glad that Samantha could join us for this conversation.

[@A.RandomLattin]

Harken then thine ear unto the voice of Tradition, for I have not entered into thy life to replace the Scriptures, nor do I wish to. But I beseech thee that thou wouldst seek the word of the Lord, to see if I be based upon biblical principles or if I be sheer Tradition. Forthwith thou must know where I be from, for thou dost need to know the difference between the two. If I be but sheer Tradition, then ye must see Scripture and Tradition dwell together in unity. And if ye find that we may not, then remove me from thee. For I do not wan to withhold thee from the wisdom of God! But I would rather assist thee in abiding in it. -A. Random

[@AnabaptistPerspectives]

The words of a poet and a prophet.

[@wigeonschannel]

I think the phrase "faith culture" might be misleading as "culture" sometimes caries the connotation of being arbitrary and merely historical/traditional and imposed. I think "shared interpretative community" might be better to indicate that a church is a group of people who share an interpretation and agree to go by it. Being a member of a church means you agree with the church on interpretation. So yes, the Bible does not say "thou shalt wear a cape dress" but it does say to shun worldliness and practice modesty. So a church has to decide how to interpret this. Many Protestant churches leave this up to the individual to interpret. But if you do this you have to accept all interpretations and the church loses the ability to call out immodesty and worldliness, or just pays lip service but has no grounds by which to call it out. Usually these churches end up dropping more and more of the New Testament (and die out). (Many) Anabaptist churches are different in that they are a community who decide that they share an interpretation.

[@jmiller1977]

What’s Samantha was saying about how it looks to the outside about how Annabaptist Churches are attractive . regular people from the outside. Do not understand the politics of the Amish or Mennonites. politics are insane and not only the politics of it. The things people quibble about, are unimaginable to someone who grew up on the outside. They argue over things like a pocket on shirts like it’s life or death.

[@J.J.-hz5fv]

I've been affiliating myself off and on (because I've traveled alot) with a group of Mennonites for over 10 years. I could've "joined" years ago, but opted not to because, I don't agree with a formal membership. Although, I have learned alot and have been very blessed by this group, I find the membership thing to be very exclusive. Christianity is exclusive already. The membership thing separates Christians. Sometimes I feel as some of them feel that I'm not Christian enough because, I'm not a member. However, I can't compromise my view on membership in order to make others feel better about my presence. As far as God is concerned, I am a member. I strongly, yet respectfully, disagree with this woman's view on it not being an ethnic culture. My perspective is it's a very ethnic culture. All that being said, I'm not here to bash Mennonites. Some of my closest friends are Mennonites and I continue to fellowship with them. I consider them brothers and have been very encouraged by them. It is what it is. I don't mind being a black sheep if that's how I'm viewed. As long as I'm one of His sheep.

[@J.J.-hz5fv]

@richardreece6712 there are many of churches with no formal membership. Obviously, not as many that have formal membership, but many nonetheless. I think it is important for believers to remember, that there is a formal membership called "the body of Christ" and no man holds the list of names of those who are on it. Just my two cents. I'm not saying I'm anti membership. To each their own. I am saying that formal man made membership implies an exclusivity within a group that is already exclusive from the world itself. In my view it separates believers. However, my view isn't perfect and as I've learned in my almost 50 years on this earth, my view is subject to change over time. However, I strongly doubt my view will ever change on this. As for the "culture" part of my comment, most Mennonites are Mennonites through hundreds of years of heritage. I'm not against that and I would never suggest one to deny that. However, non-Mennonites need to understand that when they affiliate, fellowship, commune etc. with Mennonites, that there are going to be cultural gaps that they are going to encounter and it's going to be up to the non-Mennonite to be flexible in compromise in these situations. As a non-Mennonite they are simply outnumbered. 😆! It's kind of funny, but it's true. I've seen it happen many times. People approach a Mennonite setting and not to long after they get offended by some Mennonite custom or ordinace or whatever, and they expect it to change. It's not going to change. You just have to give them grace and they'll more than likely give you grace to if they are truly seeking Christ.

[@J.J.-hz5fv]

@richardreece6712 I agree with you on your definition of grace. I'm not sure where your disagreement with me is though. I didn't mention being "once saved always saved". I believe grace is conditional through faith (Ephesians2:8-9). I'm not even close to having the worldview you described. Not that you are saying I am. I'm just not seeing where we disagree. As I said, I agree with you on your definition of grace.

[@J.J.-hz5fv]

@richardreece6712 ok I re-read what you wrote. Yeah we disagree on that, but that's OK. You're definitely entitled to your view. Not saying I'm right, not saying I'm wrong. However, I'm sure I'm right on some of my Biblical views and I'm also sure I'm wrong in some of them too.

[@J.J.-hz5fv]

@richardreece6712 the only thing I disagreed with you on is your view on Christians not being able to give other Christians grace. Or at least that's what it seemed like you were saying. I believe God's word is full of instruction to give others grace. Grace is a byproduct of love. So anyway, that's my view. Everything else you said about grace being abused I totally agree. Thanks for the exchange. Lord bless you.

[@rstauffer4070]

Very interesting topic. She was correct that the Amish did not wear buttons because that was associated with the military. However, the Amish forbid buttons long before the Civil War. I have a transcription of a portion of a French official's journal from 1793 in which he states that the Amish do not wear buttons on their clothing but only hooks. The tradition is older than that and dates back to Europe.

[@AnabaptistPerspectives]

This is interesting. Thank you for sharing.

[@gracefull3931]

In my research I found that the early Anabaptists wore hooks and eyes because only the rich wore buttons in that time. Buttons became a status symbol that they avoided.

[@SamuelHaydenARC]

Honestly this is disgusting. I know she does not speak for all mennonites but we need to get to a place where we stop romanticizing telling people to go away. Does no one realize this? It would not be a so beautiful and lovely if this was a woman of any other faith or tradition speaking so positively about seekers being turned away for absolutely no good reason at all. Not allowing people to join a church for any reason is not biblical. And this is everywhere in this tradition. I loved the interview you did with one man where he acknowledged this and said it needs to stop. You are not a good Christian if you do not want anyone else in or around your church because they look different than you.

[@samanthabender]

Again, these kinds of comments have failed to hear the point of the "go home" suggestion. Listen to the whole interview.

[@newbirth7616]

An Anabaptist isn't an Anabaptist because whats on the outside, name, heritage,. An Anabaptist is an Anabaptist for what's on the inside. The Holy Spirit of God.

[@flowzone1289]

Bingo.

[@MD-ef9fl]

Lots of good advice shared on the basis of real life experience. Only the last part was troubling. How can we claim the redemptive work of Christ apart from the redemptive community of Christ? "Go home and build your own community" is horrible advice however you look at it. I appreciate earlier in the discussion that she asked herself whether she would be willing to give herself up to minor differences of faith and practice for the sake of the body, and found herself willing. Now that's good advice that's worthy of taking to heart.

[@EricOberholzer-x6e]

"How are you doing" aka I see a minute detail of your dress that isn't following the letter of the law, therefore you must be faltering in your relationship with Jesus.

[@blessedrthosesermount99]

Spot on.

[@cy8905]

That's sad that you presume that's what they mean. I've never meant that when I asked how anybody was doing. I genuinely wanted to know how their day was going.

[@jarodcarnarvon5198]

I may not agree with the doctrine/ rules of the Amish/ Mennonite culture but I have to admit, the rest of the world, particularly present day America could sure learn a thing or 2 from them. Their mannerisms, polite demeanor, good social skills, proper ness, friendly ness, needs to be more practiced by the rest of the world. They really stand out to me, and their examples on those aspects should be practiced by others. Too many people in today's typical modern churches are rude, uncouth, cliquish, materialistic and just downright unpleasant. I am pretty much put out with today's modern Church. I no longer attend. If I were to go back to Church, I may consider an Amish or Mennonite one just because of what I see modeled in their well mannered behavior, it stands out.....

[@jmiller1977]

No, I grew up Amish till I was 22 years old and I have a little use for that kind of manipulation and control. I was in a new order Amish church and they are unbelievable convinced they are above almost any other church. Arrogant I wud call it

[@johnkeating4221]

There is only one Bible but so many different interpitations. All Christians profess to worship God, but is it on their own terms.

[@AnabaptistPerspectives]

What do you see as the solution?

[@angelagabathuler9199]

😂👍👍👍

[@KC-uf1rg]

Me thinking I could be Amish 😂