Is minimalism just a meme?

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Bread on Penguins

Bread on Penguins

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 225
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
n.b. I'm not satisfied with this video - I'll likely make a video in the future elaborating on the topics introduced here, as I don't think I did the best job explaining in this one. Feel free to add on in the comments if you wish :^)
@shadowfan1999
@shadowfan1999 Ай бұрын
what you said in this video was clear and but more on this topic would be nice. less related but you could also talk about minimalist living. thanks
@pouyai-t7f
@pouyai-t7f Ай бұрын
What does n.b. mean? 😅
@neotwenty-nineBzH
@neotwenty-nineBzH Ай бұрын
Nota Bene probably ​@@pouyai-t7f
@lhassanaitmouss389
@lhassanaitmouss389 Ай бұрын
@@pouyai-t7fn.b. “nota bene” means “Note:” 😂
@MikePiligrim
@MikePiligrim Ай бұрын
@@BreadOnPenguins this correlates just well with that recent video about perfectionism 😁
@RealHubertCZGameplayLetsPlay
@RealHubertCZGameplayLetsPlay Ай бұрын
Resource efficiency is like drug... when i see my 62K dwm executable using basically no memory, I feel happy xDD
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Hahah that's true
@giuskywalkerxyz
@giuskywalkerxyz Ай бұрын
i have 32gb ram and never used more than 10 xDDDDD
@hadeseye2297
@hadeseye2297 Ай бұрын
I love the fact that you named the painting in description.
@MikePiligrim
@MikePiligrim Ай бұрын
One example of both minimalism AND programming efficiency, that absolutely blew my mind when I learned about it (and you might know, but in case you don't - I feel obliged to share, as it's already half a century old!) was one of the very early computer games - the Space Invasion. And in particular - it's sound track! It was the first game ever with a sound track (I think) and it was absolutely genious in ways it was composed and implemented! It's literally a downscale D-minor (I think) that goes like: g-f-e-d... And it's tied to the same cycles that draw the sprites (yes, those iconic sprites that RetroArch has picked as their logo) so when you kill an allien, the sprites move faster AND the tempo of the soundtrack increses... and that DOES sound like an allien invasion, and it makes your backbone freeze! If you never played it - check it out, you will instantly see what I mean. It's something from that early era of the digital development that we are absolutely lacking nowadays, when we have so much power in our devices, and yet the browsers can't even show a stupid youtube video without getting roasted and stalling all the time...
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
That's pretty cool, I didn't know about the music theory for Space Invaders. You're correct that browsers are much slower now, but moreover, the website optimization - many sites are horribly written.
@julia_x86
@julia_x86 Ай бұрын
Thank you for filling the Luke Smith shaped hole in my life. really enjoying the content!
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Haha no problem! Glad to hear :^)
@thundreturtle
@thundreturtle Ай бұрын
I recently learned that rollercoaster tycoon 1 and 2 were made, in alrge extent (90% and over), in assembly!?! Which is one of the reasons why it ran so well on low end hardware. Working within limitation often yields to greater creativity.
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
That's awesome, I didn't know that! Limitation to enhance creativity is a great point, and applies to pretty much any creative process.
@markteague8889
@markteague8889 2 күн бұрын
I find it difficult to believe that these were implemented in assembler. It's much more likely that they were implemented in C/C++. I am reading in the Wikipedia article on the Roller Coaster Tycoon series that the first incarnation of the game franchise was released in 1999. By that time, video games for Windows (and by extension the soon to be released XBox) would have been implemented in C++. It's possible that some small portions of those games might have been implemented in hand-coded assembly where need in order to optimize the performance of some small section of critical code that needed to be highly performant. But, it's extremely unlikely that those were hand-coded in assembler. Hand coding of video games in assembler was very common in the 1980s for systems like the Apple II, Atari, C64, etc. that utilized the first generation of 8-bit and 16j-bit microprocessors (e.g. the MOS Technologies 6502, Motorola 6809, Intel 8080, and Z80) But, that was more due to the lack of availability of quality compilers for those platforms for languages like C. BASIC interpreters were fairly ubiquitous for them (often being included in a system ROM memory). But, interpreted languages (like BASIC; and also in our modern day, Python) simply cannot match the performance of a compiled language like C/C++. Often, C/C++ compilers are so good at producing optimal code that it isn't possible for a human to improve upon the resulting assembly code generated by them.
@ChrisHolly
@ChrisHolly 17 күн бұрын
Your videos are so thoughtful and well done, I really enjoy them. Plus you make DWM look cool! :)
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins 16 күн бұрын
Thanks! Glad you enjoy them :-)
@Thaleios
@Thaleios Ай бұрын
This is pretty much how I have lived my life for decades. My motto is "less is more". This can be difficult to maintain with a busy family but my OS and code I write will always follow this. I love taking a giant chunk of code and chopping it down into reusable functions or components and making it more readable. That is my "high" as nerdy as it sounds. 🙂
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Classic motto to live by :-)
@granitepenguin
@granitepenguin 29 күн бұрын
and in linux, less literally is more ;-)
@paulramasco6769
@paulramasco6769 Ай бұрын
This is really good advice. Back when I got back into coding (around 2008) a lot of the learn software push was learn enough code to make your life easier. You don't have to be a "programmer" per se but you can learn the basics and make your life easier (automate work to free up time, make stuff easier at home) but with the boom of software engineering jobs in late 2010s almost all programming videos/topics tend to be bloated "how to be a web3 10x engineer" topics that pop up whenever you look up tech. Applying a minimalist approach has helped me as an system adminstrator, electronics technician, electronics engineer, maker, hobbyist, etc. I always work on getting a minimal viable product out first that gets the job done, then I worry about iterating, refactoring, etc, later if needed.
@lunarjournal
@lunarjournal Ай бұрын
I tend to apply minimalism in everything I do, be it design, programming, etc and it's worked out pretty well for me. Thanks for the vid :)
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Respect - minimalism can be applied in so many areas. No prob, thanks for taking the time to watch and comment!
@sorenjunkers3834
@sorenjunkers3834 7 күн бұрын
i bet you make 0 dollars doing that
@lunarjournal
@lunarjournal 7 күн бұрын
@@sorenjunkers3834 That 'comment' if I can call it that makes no sense. A good engineer values creating simple, well designed systems, it's as simple as that.
@svrmmb
@svrmmb Ай бұрын
I really hope Suckless gets adapted for Wayland in the future. Thanks for the video!
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Agreed, dwl is the closest thing for now! Np :-)
@svrmmb
@svrmmb Ай бұрын
@@BreadOnPenguins Indeed, I just want something from Suckless creator :)
@simon7149
@simon7149 29 күн бұрын
river is a pretty minimal compositor. There's also dwl, but not as good imo
@D0J0P
@D0J0P 26 күн бұрын
I've been wondering if there is any update to the suckless team working on something towards Wayland. What are their plans?
@sheldonkupa9120
@sheldonkupa9120 29 күн бұрын
Wow, this channel is nice. Keep it up. Interesting stuff not many youtubers deal with.
@jerssh
@jerssh Ай бұрын
Just about the only stock windows application which I ever found myself regularly using (or at least using and enjoying) was Paint. Yeah, I could use gimp or krita to crop a screenshot, quickly scribble out a diagram, etc, but paint was faster, mostly because those are pretty much the only things it does. When I switched to Linux, I had a brief crisis trying to find an equally low-tech application (ended up using kolourpaint btw.) I'm definitely not a minimalism martyr, but there's something to be said about a program which does exactly what you need and nothing more. (So naturally Microsoft started adding weird ai bullshit to paint in windows 11)
@pouyai-t7f
@pouyai-t7f Ай бұрын
I'm a big believer in unix philosophy, in addition to my projects and job, it usually helps me in making decisions generally in life.
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
That's a great point.
@theprathamdupare
@theprathamdupare Ай бұрын
I appreciate minimalism and minimalist tools, like CLI software, but I feel it shouldn’t define a person’s entire identity. Calling yourself a “minimalist” can sometimes feel limiting. It’s more important to stay open to new ideas and explore a variety of experiences.
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
That's true - I would not call myself a "minimalist" or make that an identity, nor do I agree with artificially limiting yourself. I'm generally advocating for an appreciation and understanding of why a lot of these older, classic concepts are important when approaching software design. Thanks for commenting!
@A_G420
@A_G420 Ай бұрын
I can't help but notice your desk, wall color, etc is pywa16 themed from your wallpaper. I watch on my ultrawide with ambient light extension & have been pywal'd on top of my pywal. Respect
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Lol what can I say, I generally gravitate towards the same color schemes :-)
@LilaHikes
@LilaHikes Ай бұрын
There has to be a Swiss army knife/VIM meme for this topic.
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
True... lol
@oalfodr
@oalfodr Ай бұрын
Apart from the listed benefits of minimalism, I usually appreciate the UX of such apps: there are no excessive GUI elements or functionalities getting in my way, there's less chance of a new feature breaking my workflow, etc. Also, I really enjoy shaving a few milliseconds off a piece of software. For example, I even rewrite scripts that run in the background, like dwm bar blocks, into C just for fun.
@SuperOblivionfan
@SuperOblivionfan Ай бұрын
Im curious on your take on what I'd call "maximalist minimism", which would be taking certain aspects of minimalism too far to defeat the purpose. Its a personal thing so im not trying to accuse people of doing things "wrong". Its a tricky balance for me of the benefits of minimalism with the drawbacks. For instance say you spend 10 days configuring and scripting features for a certain minimal software, but you never actually "save" 10 days worth of time in the payoff because the features you implemented were already implemented in a less minimal software. I guess as long as you have fun and learn stuff its always worth the time :)
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
That's an interesting word for it! I understand what you mean. In a personal sense, I'd place "balance" above "minimalism" when it comes to time spent. On the example of spending days configuring/rewriting/scripting, payoff can be: (a) preference for UI or other specifics in the more minimal program, (b) a case where the less minimal program is so badly optimized that it creates a problem, or (c) learning or having fun (as you said!) That's my take on it. But I completely acknowledge there is a point of extremity :-)
@4X6GP
@4X6GP Ай бұрын
Sometimes more complex software means simpler human interactions. Lately I find my work smoother with KDE + Polonium than with Hyprland. My computer is fast enough that there is no perceived difference in response time. Why should I care about CPU cycles vs. my time/effort?
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
That's understandable - I think the nuance here depends on what your daily workflow consists of, and how much repetition is involved. There have been areas where I find the tiny optimizations make a big difference, and other areas where it's irrelevant. Thanks for commenting!
@flow5718
@flow5718 Ай бұрын
I'm running Gnome, don't have the time or patience to set things up from scratch. But maybe one day when I'm retired...
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Fair enough :-)
@xmvziron
@xmvziron Ай бұрын
Unfortunately, in the world of bloated JavaScript frameworks that will eat your RAM, these days many people are concerned about "minimalism", which I think is a real shame. In the days when computers could only address up to 1MB RAM, and you didn't have all of that real memory to begin with, programmers seriously had to _think_ about what they were writing in code, and now that memory is essentially infinite, people don't care anymore.
@VoiceOffScreen
@VoiceOffScreen Ай бұрын
personally, I don't care about minimalism, my PC is usually as cluttered as my desk over time (not really sure what came first, really) but I do like that it exists as a concept just because I don't use or care for it in 95% of things, that last 5% might still really benefit from it. one area where I do try and keep things minimalistic (to a degree) is scripts at work. if I write a custom script to monitor a very specific thing that requires some weird xml parsing and I happen to do it in php, I want people to understand it and be able to debug and extend it, even when I'm not working there anymore And yes, that actually happened and I just used php because something else had already been written in that. had I used another programming language, then we would have ended up with a mix of "best tools" and 5 different languages and that would in and of itself, you guessed it, complicate things (lets see if automod likes me today)
@granitepenguin
@granitepenguin 29 күн бұрын
More importantly, your future self will thank you as you try to figure out what you were smoking 6 months ago when you wrote it.
@granitepenguin
@granitepenguin 29 күн бұрын
growing up in the 70s and 80s, minimalism was just how things were. My first computer had 16k of RAM and no OS. My first PC clone had DOS 3.2 and everything was on the commandline. When I started with Slackware in 1995 I spent the first 2 years in the terminal because my video card wasn't supported so I couldn't run X. That was probably the best thing for me because I had to become proficient with CLI tools to get anything done. It wasn't much of a leap for me since I had 10 years of DOS before that; using a commandline was just "normal." I fell in love with CLI tools and the philosophy of pipelining commands and even to this day my GUI is mostly just a fancy window manager of terminal programs where I live in screen running mutt, irssi and vim. After 15 years of being a linux admin professionally, that early foundation is why I'm as effective as I am. Servers don't run GUIs and automation through scripting is what lets you scale your server management. The tools have changed over the years, but the Keep It Simple, Stupid mantra is still the best way to approach things.
@iavv334
@iavv334 Ай бұрын
As im setting up my homelab, Im finding minimal terminal based applications to be such a lifesaver, because it allows me to operate my machines via ssh without having to use virtual screens or anything like that to use applications that use a GUI. Not exactly related to software writing, but still something that I find to be a huge benefit on the user end of things.
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Oh for sure! TUI is great for anything headless, whether locally or remote. Especially for file management :-)
@itstoxicqt
@itstoxicqt 29 күн бұрын
TUI programs are my jam! Majority of my work flow is using tui programs. Like my waybar middle click the network SSID name it will spawn a kitty terminal in the middle of the screen running nmtui instead of the network manager applet etc
@iavv334
@iavv334 28 күн бұрын
@@itstoxicqt if you don't mind, could you give me a list of TUIs you use, or at least point me in a good direction to find some good ones? I'd love to integrate them more in my work flow
@bjornulfr
@bjornulfr Ай бұрын
Great video, I agree with all points you brought up but I will add that minimalism for me especially when it comes to UI and functionality should be simple and non distracting. Being able to customize all aspects of the UI can help with workflow and only provide useful information as apposed to overly fancy things with a lot of useless information. I am someone that hides most elements such as menus for when I need them because I find them visibly distracting. Lastly less is more is very true, and just from an aesthetics standpoint I believe a minimal system is not only functionally simple, they are usually visually appealing also.
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Thanks for mentioning about UI - that's a great point. Minimal design is just as important as minimal code.
@Amaling
@Amaling Ай бұрын
I wouldn't say I'm a hardcore minimalist or anything, I feel many aspects of life are more enjoyable without it. But on my computers I try and follow the principles of simplicity, understanding (of my own arrangements/customization), and portability. These principles make me better at doing my responsible adult stuff and also make things like learning programming more intuitive and just generally having more fun messing around on my computers. Having a very minimal desktop workflow (I mean no status/top bar level of minimal do as much from the terminal as possible) helps with these goals, and of course the single biggest factor in making this philosphy possible is using linux over macos and w*ndows
@milohoffman274
@milohoffman274 Ай бұрын
The one rule I live by that has never failed me in my IT career is this -- complexity = unreliability. Without fail, the simpler a system is generally the more reliable it is. In my experience, a single server in the corner running some service like email and no one will hardly remember its there, and will be far more reliable than a complex cluster with redundant nodes, complex redundant storage etc.
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Great rule.
@Sqwert-g6h
@Sqwert-g6h Ай бұрын
It would be cool if DWM adapted to a Wayland compositor. Honestly would align better with their philosophy.
@itstoxicqt
@itstoxicqt 29 күн бұрын
Dwl!
@compujohn96
@compujohn96 Ай бұрын
Thank You for a start point on your minimalism views. I do get it BUT I also think that the attempt for minimalism is very similar to the 'rice trap.' I have done my minimal builds and I love ricing... BUT I seem to get consumed by those projects... and forget to just enjoy my machine.
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
That's understandable, thanks for taking the time to comment. To me, trying to optimize as much as possible is enjoyable. But there is a point where you lose sight of the forest for the trees, and I definitely recognize that :-)
@AnalyticMinded
@AnalyticMinded Ай бұрын
Another example of meme minimalism is trying to get video on the terminal. Why?! But, yeah, every time I need a solution to accomplish something, I almost always look for one that can be done on the terminal, provided the job is simple enough. For instance, taskwarrior to manage my tasks, and which I discovered about a month ago. It's dead simple. I don't need a GUI with complicated menus, fancy graphics, or having it in the cloud, etc. Just a simple text list that I can see all at once. And in the process of setting it up, I learned about cron jobs! Neat.
@cdl0
@cdl0 27 күн бұрын
I like this. Long, long ago, there was a time when computers had only a few hundred bytes of memory, or maybe a few kilobytes on bigger machines, so every bit mattered! I have taught C. My handout for new students, which contains all the essentials, is only eight pages long. One pet hate of mine is inefficiently coded PDF files that contain huge, gratuitous images that are either pure decoration, or a logo as a full 24-bit colour image, which would better be drawn with a few lines of PostScript commands, while the essential text amounts to only a few kilobytes.
@kztuptuo7076
@kztuptuo7076 Ай бұрын
TL:DR Great channel.Sometimes I paly with dwm like environments to see how far I can go with trimming down my system before it will become unusable or unstable... But with 64 GB of ram and CPU with 6 cores and 12 treads crazy systenm trimming seems pointless. When does minimalism become the meme?? 2:05
@PeterStJ
@PeterStJ 11 күн бұрын
My 5 cents: when I was younger and coming from an economically weaker background, it was paramount for me to use software that was less bloated, required less resources but was still able to do the job. This is how I learned Linux, I had to go with 100Mhz and 64MB or RAM when ppl were using Pentium 4s ... I learned to use a lot of terminal based apps (back in the days it was possible to use the web from terminal as well, not so much these days). So let's say I know what I am talking about: I used this kind of software a lot. The reality of it is that point & click is actually faster for many many things we do today, even for email! And especially with touch screens. The bad part of it is that this "new and shiny" software is not composable, it is extremely hard to automate things with it. Lets give an example: I browse the web, I particularly like a video you have uploaded and I want to download and save it. Automate this to a single click or keystroke... Or I have an email, keystroke and send the email for processing, generate a pdf file based on data in the email and combine with local data and send it as a response. Very hard to do with apps like Mail. So these large applications optimize speed and usability for common tasks, but make it very hard to extend. This was once solved with building in interpreted languages or providing hooks. This is also not a thing these days.. so its a win-loose. Just wanted to stress that using TUIs is not always the best solution (as you ave notices with image/video editing as well), but also for trivial tasks like email...
@notafbihoneypot8487
@notafbihoneypot8487 Ай бұрын
I use the terminal for a ton of apps to keep me less distracted I dont own a TV or a couch GrapheneOS Also helps keep me minimal and organized
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
I do too, and not only less distractions but far faster. No TV gang \m/
@xgui4-studios
@xgui4-studios Ай бұрын
i use a tv as my second monitor for my laptop and monitor for my console​@@BreadOnPenguins
@Kq4hcuDan
@Kq4hcuDan 22 күн бұрын
Im just happy many people are switching to linux and other alternative operating systems. I also run freebsd and i plan on haiku OS on a machine.
@tsalVlog
@tsalVlog Ай бұрын
I know you said you're not satisfied with the video, but keep going in the same direction if you re-upload! Great video despite that, and it's why I sub'd.
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Will do! Thank you, I appreciate it :-)
@DigitalPhreak765
@DigitalPhreak765 Ай бұрын
Just Subscribed, Cute Penguin theme 😊😊😊😅😅
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Thank you :^)
@DigitalPhreak765
@DigitalPhreak765 Ай бұрын
@BreadOnPenguins Np 😀😀
@leonbishop7404
@leonbishop7404 Ай бұрын
Well, if you're extra paranoid about security, you also need to eliminate the chance that your compiler is compomised
@xspager
@xspager Ай бұрын
"Reflections on Trusting Trust" by Ken Thompson
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Well, you're not wrong. Thanks for recommending that @xspager - good read.
@adammontgomery7980
@adammontgomery7980 Ай бұрын
You're the only other person I've heard talk about the broader implications of small time inefficiencies (milliseconds). It's kinda mind-boggling to me that game developers will go to great lengths of optimization to wring out all the performance they can, then we've got web developers who include MBs of javascript and pop-over ads that drive everyone crazy. I like using "minimal" software, and enjoy spending time in the terminal too, but lots of times I'm not sure what I'm doing. I mean, I've got all this overhead of Xorg, then a graphical terminal emulator just to hang out in vim?
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Many awful websites out there - it's kind of unbelievable. I understand your point. Balance and logic are more important than pure minimalism. For me, it's also a question of workflow structure. Vim's ideology of having everything at your fingertips saves significant time as opposed to a GUI text editor, it's also quite literally less distracting (if that matters to you - to me, it does). Thanks for taking the time to comment :-)
@tristen_grant
@tristen_grant Ай бұрын
GAS! Good choice in music.
@TurntableTV
@TurntableTV Ай бұрын
Decluttering in all aspects of your life should be a goal, not a meme-including software. For instance, I recently stopped using the display manager (SDDM) because I find it unnecessary as I only use one window manager. Moreover, I prefer terminal-based software that doesn't interfere with my workflow. As for real-life decluttering, I gave up a lot of furniture, gave away my TV (since I have no use for it), and 'downgraded' my 'smart home' to analog.
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
I completely agree - great suggestions here, for anyone not already practicing this approach. No TV gang ftw.
@kztuptuo7076
@kztuptuo7076 Ай бұрын
@@BreadOnPenguins Same here no tv gang :)
@the-real-zpero
@the-real-zpero Ай бұрын
This seems like the right time to drop the copypasta that I wrote as a half-joke half-truth for my discord server: Hello everyone, and thanks for coming to my TedTalk. Today, I want to delve deeper into the fascinating world of RAM usage and explore why bragging about your low RAM consumption on a Linux system is not just misguided but downright counterproductive. Picture this: a bustling kitchen. One chef has a fridge overflowing with fresh ingredients, all neatly organized and ready for use. Meanwhile, the other chef stares at an immaculate, empty fridge, waiting for a delivery that seems perpetually delayed. Who do you think is going to whip up a delicious meal in record time? The answer is glaringly obvious. In reality, obsessively tweaking your computer to maintain an almost empty RAM is like slamming the brakes on its performance in everyday tasks. Most modern operating systems are intelligently designed to identify and retain frequently used resources in RAM, ensuring that they’re readily available for quick access. It’s crucial to recognize that RAM consumes electrical power whether it’s filled to the brim or barely used. So, when you let RAM sit empty, you’re wasting both energy and potential. It’s like having a perfectly functional kitchen that you refuse to use. An empty fridge doesn’t just look good; it’s a testament to missed culinary opportunities. Unused RAM is, quite simply, wasted RAM. For your computer to maximize its responsiveness and efficiency, it’s vital to keep that RAM bustling with all the most frequently accessed resources. Configuring your system to behave this way will undeniably lead to a significantly improved user experience compared to a setup that runs nearly empty all the time. After all, what’s the point of bragging about having RAM usage down to a measly 100 MB out of a grand total of 16 GB? The only benefit is to engage in meaningless posturing among a crowd of equally misinformed enthusiasts. It creates a sad, pathetic echo chamber where individuals mistakenly believe that they are enhancing their system’s performance by restricting its capabilities. They end up loading everything from storage every time they want to launch an application, when, in fact, that data could have been retrieved much faster from RAM. Their assertion of having a “superior” system due to its “lack of bloat” is misguided. Ironically, their smartphones-devices that many tout as paragons of efficiency-hold several gigabytes of resources in memory at all times. This design choice is intended to streamline the user experience and make the device feel snappier and more responsive. The underlying assumption appears to be that reducing the number of programs in RAM will automatically lead to lower CPU utilization, resulting in a quicker, more fluid experience. This notion is fundamentally naive, if not outright erroneous. For starters, this line of thinking relies on the flawed premise that every single byte of memory stored in RAM can be directly linked to an active process hogging CPU cycles. But this belief is misleading. If you don’t believe me, I challenge you to put your computer into hibernation and see how much memory it holds without any active processes. Furthermore, as we’ve discussed, the data residing in RAM for applications not actively running on the CPU serves a crucial purpose: it speeds up loading times. The CPU can work far more efficiently if most of the resources required for a task are already loaded into memory, allowing it to open new applications swiftly. Moreover, even when we consider actual programs that are currently running on the CPU, it is not a universal truth that shutting them down when they are not in use will enhance performance. In fact, retaining the state of applications and maintaining a cache of already-loaded data can significantly boost performance for certain tasks. This approach often yields better results than operating with an underutilized CPU. In essence, modern systems are ingeniously designed to leverage their hardware capabilities, facilitating faster loading processes and enhancing user experience. They intelligently flush out memory space when necessary and refill it with frequently used resources as hardware availability allows. Attempting to disrupt this natural flow by artificially constraining the system to operate with low hardware usage during standby scenarios ultimately leads to increased startup delays and a degraded overall experience. This is all true, despite any fleeting ego boosts one might gain from their online cred on forums.
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
LOL
@itstoxicqt
@itstoxicqt 29 күн бұрын
😅
@monumento.f.501
@monumento.f.501 Ай бұрын
Do you mean that time when they removed the headphone jack from the iPhone?
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins 29 күн бұрын
True, that was a meme
@vmisev
@vmisev Ай бұрын
Thanks for the video! I was observing suckless for years, watched couple of Luke’s videos about it, but his arguments seemed weak. Your explanation and reasoning from the dev standpoint make much more sense to me! 👍 I do spend a lot time in FreeBSD vt console (boot to console, w/o X or any DE before startx), and I appreciate and like console environment and TUI software, but for visually demanding tasks, I’ll stick with my KDE - nowadays is relatively lightweight, it has tiling and konsole has great VT compatibility, including displaying sixel! 😎
@techanthology
@techanthology 17 күн бұрын
from my perspective cleaner more concise programs have less attack surfaces and are therefore potentially safer to run. Likewise the efficiency gains you get from small tight code really eek out the performance on older machines. coming from a unix background when machines were much smaller and had considerably less resources this really mattered... as machines got larger and faster some programmers got less concerned with optimization of code and their programs became very bloated. I am really glad that their are still some people who still care... Keep up the good fight...
@ynlnz
@ynlnz 21 күн бұрын
ur wallpapers are so cool
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins 20 күн бұрын
Thanks :D
@GKahla
@GKahla Ай бұрын
for me, using commercial software is like healthcare; a risk / benefit proposition for each person to sort out. free software is powerful in that it gives you far more control. but you've got to engage with it, otherwise you're taking it on faith there are no traps under the hood. cheers! ☕🍪
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
I like that analogy :-)
@nnisarggada
@nnisarggada Ай бұрын
Do you think suckless will make something for Wayland? Also this video made me want to switch back to Xorg to use minimal software. Cheers!
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
It's unlikely, but dwl (dwm for wayland) exists, and that's the big one. I'm sure more projects like that will continue appearing over time :-)
@tibbydudeza
@tibbydudeza Ай бұрын
I stopped caring about efficiency when I my desktop has 32 threads with 64GB of memory and our servers are Super Micro's with dual Xeons and gobs of RAM running ProxMox instance of Windows virtualized (we got to use SQL Server). But there was a time when I cared because I programmed devices with a 16 bit Hitachi CPU running at 16 Mhz that could only address 32K of memory at once up to 64K using bank switching - no OS - just your C program and a library from the vendor for device IO to flash/display/keypad and EMV card reader -- now the devices we use are Intel i5's with 16GB of RAM running Windows 10 IOT edition.
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Interesting to hear both perspectives! The efficiency argument is less important now than it used to be, but I think as a principle, it still matters. Thanks for commenting
@tibbydudeza
@tibbydudeza Ай бұрын
@ Yes it matters … the massive efficiency gains done by Google when they aligned some data elements in the network system of Linux to align better with how 64 bit CPUs from Intel/AMD fetch and cache data. They run the biggest number of Linux machines in the world You just have to do a cost benefit analysis as we say in corporate … only 3 percent faster … nah not worth it
@bieragaino440
@bieragaino440 28 күн бұрын
by the way talking about linux , i finally installed Ubuntu touch on my OnePlus N100 phone. It could not be upgraded anymore so why not just install linux i thought. So far I can make calls, reeceive calls, use as hotspot, experimenting also vnc with macbook air and its ok so far.
@jacobwerner8533
@jacobwerner8533 Ай бұрын
i like minimalism, but there definetely can be too much. most things i do from a terminal, and some things i like as a gui like gparted and synaptic for some stuff, but some stuff like suckless's ii IRC is too much of a pain to use. overall i like suckless.
@lazimshahad6776
@lazimshahad6776 Ай бұрын
Can you elaborate on some software where minimalism is very hard to implement, such as the image editor you mentioned? It makes me wonder where I can avoid clutter and where I can't(eg: browsers).
@wooshbait36
@wooshbait36 Ай бұрын
No cap, Hyprland with dotfiles is lowkey mid AF. Like, you're out here tryna flex your Linux setup, but it's giving major "I spent more time configuring than actually using my computer" vibes. Ngl, it's more complicated than it needs to be, unless you are just copy pasting commands like her, and the whole dotfiles aesthetic is straight up clownery. Periodt. 🙄✌
@groos3449
@groos3449 Ай бұрын
Obviously not everything needs to be minimalistic, usability always comes first!
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Anything with inherent complexity will struggle to be minimal. Full-on IDEs, or tools for graphic design, editing, video, music production, anything creative really. Your individual workflow will dictate what can and can't be minimal. There's nothing wrong with feature-rich software when you need all of those features. My point is more about not using a huge piece of software when you really only need one tiny thing :^)
@daleclark3138
@daleclark3138 3 күн бұрын
To me it means less clutter in real life and less bloat in software. I like Budgie for an uncluttered desktop. Lucky for us that most Linux programs are much smaller than an equivalent Windows program. Command line programs are the smallest simply because adding anything graphical adds bloat. Using the same apps as those in Open BSD is a huge step towards more security as Open BSD or Kali Linux are known for that.
@thehardstylepromoter5687
@thehardstylepromoter5687 Ай бұрын
How did you add this panel at the bottom of your neovim with the mode and git info?
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
vim-airline plugin :-)
@thehardstylepromoter5687
@thehardstylepromoter5687 Ай бұрын
@BreadOnPenguins thanks! Can you make a video about your config?
@DanCalloway
@DanCalloway Ай бұрын
I wish KZbin would stop taking down my comments. I can't even compliment you on your great videos without them removing the comment. Unbelievable! I guess I'll just have to stop commenting...NOT!
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins 27 күн бұрын
Thanks for going through the effort to comment again! KZbin does the same thing to me, the more you comment the more it seems to add in filters.
@dawn_rider
@dawn_rider 20 күн бұрын
​@@BreadOnPenguins YT can hide comments from everyone but the author. For the time being, viewing the same comments in a different browser ( logged out of YT ) tells you if it's doing this. In any case it's always prudent to sort comments by 'Newest first' as it will also hide them ( with no notifications 😞 ). At least the YT AI bot hasn't written auto descriptions / auto comment replies for you yet that can't be turned off. The video '" KZbin Now Has A Brain - And It Is Insane! " shows this. Edit : Your "Why I started using Linux" video has been touched by the AI ! There are up/down voting options so maybe it'll improve over time ?
@billcaptain7500
@billcaptain7500 Ай бұрын
i fully support this entire video it sums up right where im at too. except for not progmming in C yet get on that!! just kidding i guess thats just evolution to the new generation . enjoying your vids thank you!
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Haha fair enough - I should learn C properly! Glad to hear, no prob :-)
@altrogeruvah
@altrogeruvah Ай бұрын
A bit irrelevant to the video itself, but I love GAS as well, Pop is one of the best ambient dub techno albums I own
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
That's awesome! Great album :-)
@iceyrazor
@iceyrazor 29 күн бұрын
I used dwm For a long time, but I switched to awesome wm And making stuff in that is simpler because it's Lua.
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins 29 күн бұрын
Nice, I've tried awesome but less my thing. Glad you're enjoying it!
@nnisarggada
@nnisarggada Ай бұрын
How do you "update" suckless aoftware that you built from source? Other software can be updated with a simple pacman -Syu
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Just integrate with git
@nnisarggada
@nnisarggada Ай бұрын
@BreadOnPenguins How do I know if the main repo has updates?
@n1vz3r
@n1vz3r Ай бұрын
I think minimalism in software is very utopic idea. Most successful software (except the really tiny and well-defined command-line tools, and only to some degree) will have features added, and will "bloat" over the time. So whatever the stated goals of any project are, "minimal" or "bloat-free" is usually the absurd one.
@Cyco_Nix
@Cyco_Nix 24 күн бұрын
It is a subjective thing, for sure. Having lived through the true minimalism because we had no choice, I find I am certainly not one. I don't mind it and I do enjoy what people come up with, but it is not for me. That is the beauty of it all, you can go extreme minimalist or the completely opposite direction. Me, I am somewhere in the middle.
@bloodyblue354
@bloodyblue354 4 күн бұрын
Agree in principle, but a minimum baseline of functionality needs to exist and I'm willing to accept a relatively substantial amount of bloat for that. The number of hours you need to invest to raise a barebones WM into something usable is way too high IMO, and you still run into stuff you've forgotten to set up/didn't anticipate constantly. You can easily end up wasting a weekend on unimportant busywork of configuring random pieces of basic PC functionality instead of doing what you actually wanted to do, to be fair you might learn something but it's almost never worth the time investment. To me, computers are tools, I use them to do work, they shouldn't be the work themselves. Practically speaking, Hyprland with the jakoolit script is the sweetspot for me. Coming from i3 and KDE Xorg, it felt like sorcery when I booted it up.
@alwaysdreaming9604
@alwaysdreaming9604 12 күн бұрын
shit, you're probably the first Linux user that I see who has a beautiful desktop which at the same time doesn't look vulgar or pathetic. And it's so minimal too! I love it. Gonna try to make mine like that as well. Tired of this bloated porn...
@xgui4-studios
@xgui4-studios Ай бұрын
i have to use Windows fir school :( how can i still try to start enjoy suckless software as much as possible?
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
You can always dual-boot or use a VM!
@itstoxicqt
@itstoxicqt 29 күн бұрын
😢😢
@Proferk
@Proferk 27 күн бұрын
There's no way to achieve true suckless. The only reason that dwm is less than 1000 SLOC is because it depends on the underlying sphageti code mess that is X11. Making dwm for wayland is pretty much impossible. Yes, dwl exists but it is far from being able to reliably daily drive
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins 27 күн бұрын
Very fair criticism
@iceyrazor
@iceyrazor 29 күн бұрын
Urxvt is better on memory usage than st
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins 29 күн бұрын
Thanks for mentioning!
@sorenjunkers3834
@sorenjunkers3834 7 күн бұрын
it seems to me that the people who are obsessing about such things as minimalism usually are not software engineers
@Hobby4health
@Hobby4health Ай бұрын
Less is more !
@groos3449
@groos3449 Ай бұрын
Can Suckless apps still be considered minimalistic? They all depend on X11
@sniper_in_bush
@sniper_in_bush Ай бұрын
this is the major problem to suckmore programs. they claim to be minimalistic, but are just buggy pieces of garbage. they have less lines of code than gnu programs, but at have proportionally more bugs and less elemental features in st, for example, you can patch a million patches, you will still see a buggy font in certain sizes, which is the only thing you had to do right
@RealHubertCZGameplayLetsPlay
@RealHubertCZGameplayLetsPlay Ай бұрын
@@sniper_in_bush I use dwm for like half a year, with few patches, and i could count all bugs which were caused by dwm itself on 1 hand...
@SaHaRaSquad
@SaHaRaSquad Ай бұрын
That kind of thought process is how you make minimalism a meme. If you follow that logic to its ultimate conclusion you'll end up with cave paintings.
@groos3449
@groos3449 Ай бұрын
​@@sniper_in_bush The bad thing is that they are good software, before moving to wayland I used dwm, st and dmenu and even to this day I can't find anything better than any of those 3
@groos3449
@groos3449 Ай бұрын
​@@SaHaRaSquad How? It's not like wayland is brand new, every other WM/DE is migrating or at least planning to, but suckless doesn't seem to care while preaching extreme minimalism
@BrocolliLand
@BrocolliLand 14 күн бұрын
Do you trust your BIOS ? Is it running CoreBoot / LibreBoot ? Do you trust your nvidia drivers ? No right... Trust depends on the credibility of a FOSS project.
@con_sci
@con_sci Ай бұрын
minimalism is for japanese bugmen living in half-bedroom apartments jk I love my empty bedroom and blank walls
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Lmaooo
@illusivespirit
@illusivespirit 20 күн бұрын
You need to create a discord server community
@yamai
@yamai Ай бұрын
you can control a tool way more if it does less.
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
100%
@delq
@delq 15 күн бұрын
Next step : vetting the linux kernel
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins 14 күн бұрын
Gotta do it someday
@Viken43
@Viken43 Ай бұрын
Bloat certainly is….,😊
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Lol, fair
@AIC_onyt
@AIC_onyt 29 күн бұрын
didn't know luke smith had a daughter xD
@j0hnc0nn0r-sec
@j0hnc0nn0r-sec Ай бұрын
I like minimalism in theory. In practice, I’m a packrat
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Haha fair enough
@ArturdeSousaRocha
@ArturdeSousaRocha Ай бұрын
You know, I am something of a minimalist myself. 😆 Jokes aside, I like simplicity. Good defaults help a lot because I don't like massive configuration files. Ideally one screenful at most.
@wooshbait36
@wooshbait36 Ай бұрын
I find it amusing how she copy-pasted some GitHub commands to install dotfiles, picked up a few hotkeys, and is now making KZbin videos solely to show off, pretending to be a 'hAcKer'.
@5ergius
@5ergius Ай бұрын
Kommentar für den Algorithmus. 👍 Peace ☮
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Thank you! ☮
@TolgaTinkers
@TolgaTinkers Ай бұрын
In my opinion, minimalism for someone depends on their lifestyle. However, we live in a world where most programs are expected to do multiple things for convenience. That inevitably brings complexity at some level. Due to the complexity, some people don't have time to check the software projects, so they just have to trust them based on their popularity. Personally, I embrace both type of software as long as it is reliable and secure.
@soda3185
@soda3185 Ай бұрын
I disagree, I don't think minimalism (at least in this context) is subjective. I think it has more to do with some programs just doing unnecessary stuff, or just being bloated because [reasons]. For example, something like nano or vim will always be more "minimal" than vscode or obsidian, and while the latter have their usecases, if you only need to edit text or some code, then the former are more than enough :-)
@TolgaTinkers
@TolgaTinkers Ай бұрын
​@@soda3185 While I agree some arguments of yours, some people might prefer using gui text editors over nano or vim for everything. That might be the minimalism for them. But in the context of software, I agree it is not subjective.
@oilbanedata394
@oilbanedata394 Ай бұрын
""minimalism leads to fear, fear leads to hate, this is the path of Apple""" TRY LEARNING C BEFORE THINKING YOU UNDERSTAND IT...... while(true) { noobs++;}
@oilbanedata394
@oilbanedata394 Ай бұрын
Trying not to be an a-hole Try C it simple and fun however you will learn how minimalism fails when try to use C to write a GUI program in C yourself.
@NetBandit70
@NetBandit70 Ай бұрын
Minimize effort
@satyarsh665
@satyarsh665 Ай бұрын
Welcome back luke smith!
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Lol thanks!
@bjre.wa.8681
@bjre.wa.8681 Ай бұрын
Okay it's time for a little humor. Unix--Unix? Okay I've heard of that. It's what you have done to your cat the make him stay home, "You Unix him"??
@mendelovitch
@mendelovitch Ай бұрын
If one cannot vet it, there are many that can.
@удивительный-б8х
@удивительный-б8х Ай бұрын
okay
@boredsherbet
@boredsherbet Ай бұрын
not having a cs background an using arch... wtf... i mean damn. ok. makes me feel like a pleb but ok.
@tristen_grant
@tristen_grant Ай бұрын
Arch isn't that hard anymore. As easy to install and use as most other Linux distros.
@boredsherbet
@boredsherbet Ай бұрын
@@tristen_grant really? I've always just heard enough to be too scared to try it. at the end of the day-- I'm still rolling with wsl for 99% of things. Though at this point outside of the web browser, I only really use wsl so switching over's been on my mind for a while-- I just don't want to go through the learning curve while doing interviews ykwim?
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
I agree Arch isn't really that hard anymore! If you don't want to fully switch before learning, you can always install on a VM and learn the basics, and then switch once you're ready.
@itstoxicqt
@itstoxicqt 29 күн бұрын
I don't have a CS background/degree ive been using arch since around 2008, as of this fall I bought a brand new desktop upgraded from my old gaming laptop. First thing I did was install arch linux as my daily driver.. I game and stream all under Arch
@n.m4497
@n.m4497 Ай бұрын
Bro you really are the daughter of Luke Smith
@BreadOnPenguins
@BreadOnPenguins Ай бұрын
Lol gotta continue the memes
@fionnbracken
@fionnbracken Ай бұрын
Last example gives clearest insight. Imagemagick is minimal, and probably simple from an implementation viewpoint, but not simple to use. Simple to use is often the real key. Minimal code means simple to modify, which is an important use case to some.
@D4RK_LE4F
@D4RK_LE4F Ай бұрын
I used and liked dwm, all I wish for is that they ditch x-org, because it's old and I think it should be replaced by Wayland. Therefore I love sway right now. But the philosophy is very good
@tristen_grant
@tristen_grant Ай бұрын
Xorg is still a must-have for many people, but Wayland will get better and fill in the gaps.
@hopelessdecoy
@hopelessdecoy Ай бұрын
​@@tristen_grant it's pretty much there
@tristen_grant
@tristen_grant Ай бұрын
@@hopelessdecoy Wayland doesn't have proper color management. You can't calibrate your monitors on Wayland. Krita also doesn't work (cursor issues).
@D4RK_LE4F
@D4RK_LE4F Ай бұрын
@@tristen_grant Yeah I see that it might not be be as stable and reliable as X, but for me it works well for me and they have a compatibility layer with xwayland.
@Afurai_
@Afurai_ Ай бұрын
@@tristen_grant "You can't calibrate your monitors on Wayland" Your monitor doesn't come with buttons and an OSD to adjust color, contrast, gamma, etc?
@MrPhrenzy
@MrPhrenzy 28 күн бұрын
"Just a meme"? That seems like a strange thing to say about something that is immensely powerful, perhaps time to checkout what the origins of "meme" actually is: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme
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