Is Self-Sufficiency REALLY Possible? Off-Grid with Tiny Shiny Home

[@TinyShinyHome]

Hey friends, thanks again for hanging out with us, laying some earthbags, and touring the homestead! Give us a couple of years and we'll catch that 59 score 💪. Guess you'll just have to come back 😊

[@russellwatters5891]

Ya'll definitely have the right mindset, and direction in life! 😊

[@mafp22w]

@TinyShinyHome How do I get in touch? I’m trying to do what you are on 4 acres in Paulden, AZ. Fortunately, I’ve been doing the initial work with income from my job. I have a well, pump, pump house, and enough solar to run the water. I just got a septic permit. I’m having trouble figuring out how I can build the rest without debt. The county doesn’t seem to understand anything but building things immediately with debt. Am I in the wrong county?

[@paultharp4626]

Jeff, you should give some thought to adding 'network' category to your scoring system.. meaning access to providers (friends, family, near by community), ability to barter, etc. Just an idea 🤔

[@carolewarner101]

The answer is NO. You're not self sufficient if you buy from Amazon. BUT, two amazing families who are taking responsibility for themselves and their livelihoods and their impact on the Earth. AWESOME!!!

[@ourmobilehomemakeover662]

I don’t think self sufficient needs to mean fully isolated from all contact with the outside world. I think of it as a spectrum. We each are more or less reliant on commercially marketed products and services. The goal is to become significantly less so - not necessarily to cut oneself off from everything.

[@TrumpWins-ix8fm]

This is very insightful. I accidentally fell off the grid when I couldn't pay my utility bill. I had a little solar and 20 rain barrels. No real food sources. 25:18

[@robertbrewster6890]

Why label yourself anything? Who cares? Live your life. 100% self sufficient? 50% self sufficient? It doesn’t matter. It’s your business, right! Do what you can, when you can, at your pace with your available resources, knowledge, and strength 👍😁

[@thewizardoftech5075]

that doesnt really answer the question.

[@LeatherHomestead-io8dt]

Why be totally? The answer is yes but

[@rccollins8160]

Always good to see two of my favorite channels getting together!

[@dubyajay7860]

Our house is off grid. 5k gallon cistern, never run out of water. And we have solar, however, in Southern Ontario, we need to run backup diesel in November, December and into January due yo the short days.

[@Gridlessness]

Ooooh, 5k gallons would be great at our place. What kind of tank do you use?

[@lesthompson5907]

@@Gridlessness, Foe the benefit of all who read this. "NOTE" When i was of grid we had a WW2 gasifier. But the Uk is wet & it was hard to get dry Gas AS Geffrey Knows. damp, gas it the curse of Wet & Cold Climates. But their is one way to deliver dry gas by sending your wet smock up a colom of charcoal as the smock enters the colom it's oxygen content is burnt off . with in it's dampness & enriches the hydrogen with in the mix of carbon colom with hydro carbon's to run one's generator It works i did it for years .. one can Mack one's own charcoal or save that unburnt in one's gasifier . ye it is a extra Esperance but no more than having to provide a draying siystom to prepper the wood & keep it dry. the system Mack charcoal so why not Benefit from that provisions. I know Geffrey Mack is own charcoal so for him it as win win, Les England.

[@TrumpWins-ix8fm]

Gridlessness is doing "Off Grid" Self Sufficiency very impressively. Built from a Shoestring budget. In a very unforgiving cold environment. Respect that a lot. TSH is great for learning Adobe building.

[@sarahanderson8459]

I always think about this question of self sufficiency. I can’t produce solar panels or lithium batteries or even my own fabric to make clothes- so self sufficiency seems to always require outside inputs.

[@WhatDadIsUpTo]

I make my own energy, live off collected rainwater, grow my own food (meat only) raising rabbits, use a composting toilet,have my own machine shop and make all my own stuff, make my own fuel from retorting plastic waste,rely on wind and sun (which each compress air) to run stuff. Can I live 100% off grid? You bet. Do I? No why? I'm 75, debt free and lazy. I can live like a king on social security alone and still put back $500 a month living ON grid. ONLY if PHTP (poop hits the prop) happens will I throw the switch (off).

[@thewizardoftech5075]

there is a few things. you say make fuel from plastic but you would need a large supply of plastic from the outside world to do this, you need parts if your machines go down . too raise meat , the meat needs food . some people have big enough property and no winters to allow grazing. but most will need hay or straw for bedding or food. so then you need steady supplies of seed and hope the crop doesn't get hit by disease . then most people are going too need vitamins so have to plant full crops and bottle foods. then there is medicine. one bad infection and you could be done without antibiotics. the point is it is really hard to live off grid indefinitely. even 5 years would be really hard without collecting or purchasing anything from society .most people can survive due to stockpiling . we have always had a trade or barter system as long as humans can remember . it is out of necessity. there will always be exceptions where some hermit lives of mushrooms and tree bark in a hut for there whole life. but as a whole most of society would fall without some form of community and (grid) too draw resources from.

[@thewizardoftech5075]

even solar only lasts about 10 years before parts start going fast .

[@WhatDadIsUpTo]

@thewizardoftech5075 Dear Negative Nancy - thank you for your input. I've been at this 12 years now & going strong.

[@WhatDadIsUpTo]

@@thewizardoftech5075 We're worlds apart. I designed and built my own tracking concentrator that can melt mild steel at its focal length. I heat oil and retort wood & plastic waste with it. It will outlast time!

[@thewizardoftech5075]

@@WhatDadIsUpTo but where did you get the parts for it, or the mild steel , or plastic waste . i have no doubt your resourceful. and knowledgeable. but it doesnt really answer the question of what you would do when you batteries lose strength , solar cells degrade , run out of stockpiled plastics for fuel, generators die , rabbits get a disease that spreads and kills the group, water gets tainted , you get struck by an infection, have a heart attack , even a simple bad tooth that gets infected. all this stuff requires outside resources to remedy. even the money you get for these resources comes from the government. so you would have to drop that. completely self sufficient, means no outside help at all. its just extremely hard long term for us as a civilization right now.

[@doncastor4807]

I give you guys a 100% because I know if the "grid" collapsed/disappeared tomorrow, you'd totally be able to provide you and yours without getting into a bread line or having to move to a pod in the city and eat bugs.

[@dnawormcastings]

Great video on living off the grid🇳🇿❤️😎

[@Ulbre]

I wonder what score a typical Amish family would have? This is a "Most excellent video" on the Bill & Ted scale of videos. Luv the laughs y'all had making this video. This family is nit just building a sustainable off grid life but are also building memories and traditions that will create an environment where the kids will just naturally solve problems and get on with life. Training not only yourselves but your kids as well. Training for a better future by eliminating the need for essential services and concepts.

[@CreativeBurt]

Two of my favorite channels working together! Do love your upbeat attitude and approach to life.

[@russellwatters5891]

A great point has been made, almost 100% self sufficiency can be attained. We still use, I didn't say rely, on something in our lives that requires somethibg other than what we can do. Solar, batteries, wind turbines, cabling, almost everything requires purchase from somewhere else. I love ya'll and your 59%, because i love the way you've achieved it. Love ya'll ❤

[@MikeSheasheaDtree]

FYI In Cochise County for our 20 x 40 garden we have shade clothe we got online, the plants, don't get scorched, and bird netting keeps the Thrashers out of our Tomatoes.

[@salscycleshop3416]

Great watching you all getting together, such fun and talk about one extreme to the other!! ❤

[@jerrycohen6256]

My wife and i moved from the city 12yrs ago to a semi arid area and built a 1500 square foot sandbag house with the intent of being self sufficient, we have solar and 3 wells which can produce over 5000gal/hr of fresh water, we produce our own food but we still use fuel for the vehicle and still travel to the nearest town when want unneccesary things and a day out but its becoming very infrequent, we did everything from the building, plumbing, solar and electrics ourselves which is an awsome journey, so in summary we are not being self sufficient but its our choice

[@carlgodfrey2974]

They need 2 gardens. A summer garden on the North side of a building. Winter garden on the South side with removable covers that can be added on cold evenings.

[@UncleBildo]

Fun to see y'all interact, fun to watch. Been watching you guys for a few years, and them for a year or so, now just need to throw in a few other such families I watch and it'd be awesome! Have been channeling my inner Kunta Kinte in the yard, myself, today. Berry bushes, Honeyberry, elderberry, blackberry, raspberry, currant, starts for watermelon, squash, and a few things popping thru the dirt, it's been a busy last day or two. Aiming for the food forest look in the high desert of Washington. Gotta do something besides flick boogers at the wall in retirement!

[@stayinggolden2665]

We are in theory "off grid". But that being said many of our meals are produced 70-95% by us(so far), our power is 100% by us, our heat is wood, but we do use propane for convenience. 2x100lb tanks per year for cooking and showers. We could do without but hot easy showers are nice. Off grid can be as extreme as one would like it to be or not. For us it's just not being 100% dependent on a potentially fragile system!

[@poetmaggie1]

I agree your really not off grid when you need on grid stuff. It really isn't a problem until the grid goes down and can't get back up. When the grid goes down permanently, and the way politicians are acting that is gonna happen, industry will have to start all over again, the people who will suffer less are off grid.

[@raymondpeters9186]

Pumicecrete is by far the best building material on the planet Pumicecrete is a mixture of pumice cement and water mixed and poured into a set of reusable forms walls are poured from 12"to 25" thick pumicecrete is fireproof termite proof rust rot and mold proof non toxic and has a high R value and good sound attenuation solid poured walls means no critters can live in your walls Pumicecrete can be built for a fraction of the cost and time and pumice is one of the few building materials that can go directly from the mine to the job site ready to use without any additional possessing and zero waste Take care Ray

[@keithjacobson4493]

I watched Tiny Shiny family build the workshop and it was great. Like you, they are awesome parents with marvelous relationships with the kiddos.

[@larrymitchell6793]

Four beautiful people, you shine! Loved this episode ❤

[@theraylfamily4520]

13:27 also they use a lot of extra water making mud.. so they probably have all the water they need now if they stopped building..

[@paulsmit2322]

Well done. I'm too old but totally inspired. We are in South Africa.

[@jayburrough4308]

Back in the day they ordered stuff out of magazines and that was before everyone had electric I think if you are meeting your daily needs then you are self sufficient I think

[@matthewwalker6621]

I run my place on 1200watts of panels,main house runs on 700ah of battery bank and another 300ah bank just for the fridge and it works. I only put a generator on when using big arse power tools. We have lived without town power or water or phone line or sewage to our property,we don't even get tv reception for over 30 years. Your set up is very much like ours with water and pumps and toilet ect

[@prozacgod]

For a moment I thought you were doing a colab with mylittlehomestead, and I was about to die... make this happen, your families seem so aligned.

[@Noname-cn4ly]

Tinyshinyhome impresses me a lot because it’s basically the two of them doing everything with a little help from their teens……while the mylittlehomestead guys are all capable adults…..so lots of hands to help and pay for things….. ALSO, these tinyshinyhome does a very, very good job laying the long rows of “bags”, ….tampering them down like I was taught….whereas the mylittlehomestead guys make lots of small bags just stacked…. I think these guys deserve a lot of respect for all they have created with no prior knowledge…..a cute young family growing together as they build their own homestead. I’m very proud of them. Glad they were on here….👍

[@onewhitestone]

Well Jeff, even the pioneers didnt totally live off grid either. They all had to trade for flour, sugar, salt, and other items. To live totally off grid, you would need to grow and produce all your food needs by hand. If you use any machinery then it would require fuel. Could it be done, well the indigenous peoples did it. The Eskimos did it and ancient man did it.

[@archangel20031]

If you need 5000 watts to get through a heavy electrical use day, then build a system that will have enough storage to supply you that power for longer, I'd say much longer that the longest amount of time you will be without sunlight.

[@JustMe-s6s4m]

100% energy is easiest (maybe add wind and biogas), 100% water too (add a rain roof if necessary, the shade has additional benefits). 100% food is all but impossible (salt, coffee, other spices, rennet, ...) without bigger sacrifices. Even growing enough fruits and vegetables is really hard. Building materials are near impossible (nails, screws, insulation, glass panes, hinges). Tools are impossible (ever made your own metal, welding rod, electric tape, ...).

[@skeetermalcolm1655]

Thank you for sharing this brother really enjoyed it, I totally agree that there is no such thing as 100 percent solar

[@mountainwoodsman8116]

So cool you got to visit with Tiny Shiny... I'm a subscriber and love their channel. I've lived in Alaska for the last 9 years, and headed to New Mexico in a few weeks... I love the area down there, too. Great video topic! Real good for conversation. Peace to you!

[@Dmbyers2002]

I love that you do this off grid grade thing. The whole premise of the “not really off grid” nay sayers is a flawed argument, but I love that you entertain it anyways and give a realistic grade.

[@lesthompson5907]

loved you post on tiny homes . on the subject of self-sufficiency, when we lived of grid mom & dad often talk of being Self Sufficient. their doctrine was not about the grid but the ability to feed & keep ones self heathy. & warm they often pointed out that jurying the war, { WW"2.} The state had Something Call the survival, index. it defined the aide one got to insured they the citicen was in a survival stat, This was pre the welfare steate. So the Siystom would define The size of your. Ration book. it defined the social searing premise. if you were a child you would be shipped of to Canada or Australia & the country side of the UK . As you Geffrey can testify Too. The difference .has i see it, ones ability to predust your own food . heat & power. But then we may be of grid but ues the asset's them of grid must recognize the stat provide. The road's the provide & the bullets for one's own gun Against the production. of one's own powder & shot. In closing to liv of grid we do not Maintain & provide access to the Providing one own food heat & water . will insurers one's survival & reduce the need for, subsidies & this can be achieved at home . but the off grid must except we rely on service the wider community provides. so we as of gird livers have a duty to interact as sell stuff sent we predust to Les England.

[@alexkibe4179]

Its crazy that today in Africa, people living off grid, are running to the grid, and the opposite is happening overseas....

[@mongkolsomkid6831]

Use what they have around the area to build the house is great, it helps reduce the cost of building👍but work with dirt is really a hard work so he jealous in Canadian forest life. 😁

[@thewrightway2915]

The bad thing is the government forces most to use "experts" because they make you buy permits then you have to have it inspected by the "experts". Very little places left you can do whatever you want with your property.

[@shapeshifter7753]

Very cool. Still would like to see Rose with running water in her kitchen 😊 I think she deserves that💪

[@Gridlessness]

One day!

[@lesthompson5907]

yes i agree 110% 0n that son . i don't won't to be critical neither but some sort of make-over of is composting. siystom & her ablution system would go a long way in making rose comfy at { bathing time at home } & to have a place to shower Or even serener a place to scorner to it not as though she as not errant it hard work for it some screening on the out house to protect agen the mosquitos Ho Sorry computing toilet . Is a must in my opinion I can't seem to get if he doesn't lisson on props . he just dose not get it dose he , i promise i wudent mention it.

[@LitoGeorge]

Rose has said on these videos in the last year that she didnt want running water. I loved that.

[@shapeshifter7753]

@@LitoGeorgelol ya if she really wanted it I bet she’d hook it up by herself!

[@MikeSheasheaDtree]

I am in Cochise County as well (actually farther south in Hereford), have watched Gridlessness for YEARS, Last year watched some Tiny Shiny House, so this was real fun! To have you guys "Collaborate" 😉.

[@jhosk]

Happy for them! I'm by trade an electrician, their set-up is almost perfect. Something i would add is if feasible would be a deep well with a windmill and an additional electric pump down hole

[@TinyShinyHome]

So wind power isn't really worth it here because we have so much sun. And wells unfortunately are a poor investment because of a number of factors so that's why we're focusing on rainwater catchment. It would make things easier for sure!

[@Nerdy_prepper]

Great video! I love the Dick Proenneke shout out! ❤

[@offgridinthepacificnorthwe3210]

Greetings Jeff. Our other homestead that we built over 30 years was more self sufficient than our new one. That said the new place has more sun than our old place. We have a well and septic system. We heat with wood and cook with propane. There is no electrical service in our area. We are in the high desert mountains. It is very difficult to grow food here. Very short season and gets 30 below zero farenheit In The winter. Our other homestead is like your place. We started this new chapter in our mid 60s. Off Grid? Absolutely. Totally self sufficient at our new place? Maybe 35% our other homestead? About 55% but that is a lot of full time work. Our new place is totally debt free and that is worth a lot. I love your chanel and I know that you truly love your family and that is priceless.

[@alexskeens9845]

As a homesteader and a KZbin addict, I really enjoy watching videos of multiple KZbinrs that I watch collaborating on a video together. It's pretty cool. ❤🎉

[@TrumpWins-ix8fm]

It's like the 1800s. On the Frontier. You still need gun powder and lead. Horse Leather. Lamp Oil..etc.

[@joesguiltyguitar]

Maybe a dew catcher for catching water in the desert ? But I'm not done watching the video and your probably going to start talking about having a well next lol Maybe I should finish watching the video before I start commenting on it 😂..

[@TinyShinyHome]

No well - rainwater catchment :)

[@BrokenArrow685]

Where is your printable sustainability worksheet? I want to score our Homestead.

[@jo-ellenbass2261]

Nice rating system. Self-sufficiency does come in grades. In 1955, in mid-Missouri, it was possible to grow your own food, make your own house out of logs, and possibly even grow enough grain for livestock. With that said, most families purchased kerosene for supplemental heating and cooking, as well as for lamps. Because central Missouri is not a great place to grow wheat, actual flour would be purchased. Cornmeal might be from your own crops. But, when it comes to self-sufficiency, most people relied on friends, neighbors, and family for extra labor for things like house or barn raisings. And those big agricultural crops? Let's just say that a large family of children was a major asset. I'm trying to wrap my brain around the idea of your self-sufficient, single cave person. It's an interesting concept.

[@TrumpWins-ix8fm]

My Great Grandfather had 37 kids. Trying to keep the Dairy Farm going in Northern 12:43 Louisiana.

[@fredatrammell3260]

This was absolutely awesome

[@hassenfepher]

I consider myself self sufficient. I can afford my lifestyle. I trade hours of my life for money that I trade for other goods. It all comes from me eventually.

[@sonofeloah]

To deal with sewage, methane digesters to produce methane to use where you would use propane. Also, once you've gotten all the methane you can realistically get out of the poo slurry, solar distill the water out to be reused and the dried-out clean manure can be used wherever it is needed.

[@BrightestBlessings7899]

I am still a renter and shop at Amazon but I still believe in self- sufficiency.

[@sarahanderson8459]

I would add that I think small communities could be close to self sufficient if there were specialists in the small group. Like someone who is a metal fabricator and someone who weaves fabric and someone else who builds mills and things like that.

[@AlexanderWiggins-y8z]

Very interesting. What do they do for medical?

[@TheLegendaryLore]

We tried some goat milk recently, and we could definitely taste a difference. Are you saying there must have been a billy goat around? This was from a store so I'm not sure where it was produced.

[@TrumpWins-ix8fm]

Biggest challenge to me is the sheer physical challenge of moving all that dirt. So naturally I build tools to hedge against that challenge. A whole new area of Interest in the Tool designs is emerging. I will be sharing these tool designs eventually. 25:10

[@joanneganon7157]

My questions have always been can you make your own hair brushes, toothbrushes, toilet paper, ladies monthly products? Are there nutrients in rain water?😅 I love what you've accomplished. Keep up the god work🎉. JO JO IN VT 💞

[@KUEHLKUEST]

Very nice y'all!! The home design and material build is very cool!! Cheers!! J & C

[@kadmow]

Jeff can't help himself, he has to quantify everything, it is an engineer's nerd feature. -And you still need an outside income - in some way to be economically viable in our modern world - especially if one wishes to remain in contact with those we are not immediately adjacent to. Offgrid - to a point is absolutely possible (even living in a city, one can partially decouple from the mainstream source of most things). Thanks to technology. In rural areas in Australia, NOT collecting rainwater is seen as negligence.... (Rainwater is so much better for drinking than most well water in inland Australia.) - even unfiltered, the traditional rainwater tanks (galvanised steel) sediment out most contaminants - particle plus carbon filtration sorts the rest - no need to worry about arsenic testing or treatment, and no problems with hardwater.. (making plastic tanks completely opaque helps to reduce/eliminate floral growth A gravity tank on a tall stand makes for a longterm storage for pressurised water - this used to be the norm at every rural house (along with a windmill to pump the water up there when ever the wind happened to blow - overflow straight back to source... (Buying in animal feed / supplements is a huge input..)

[@TrumpWins-ix8fm]

I modified a 1920s house from no insulation to R40 before LEEDS certified was created 24 years ago.

[@PraxisPrepper]

Cool project.

[@kennyoung3878]

To me, there is a major difference between "off grid" & "self sufficient ". To most of us, the goal to NOT be connected to utilities in any way. (Screw pg&e)

[@timtv2826]

Thanks for another great video. Always interesting and always entertaining.

[@ClarenceOlsen-o2g]

Interesting build 👍cheers

[@Ryan_Tidwell]

I live in the city. Its pretty much desert here. I've grown a garden every year for the last 10 years. Its costs me more in water costs to water my garden than to buy the vegetables at the store. We don't have irrigation water here only potable. If you have to bring in water, I assume it would be even more expensive. How do you justify the cost of a garden instead of just buying food?

[@timklassen421]

Heh I drive a water truck people need water when a well is not feasable and I make a part time living from it ,anyway thanks for the video.

[@esmannr]

I think you could be 100% self sufficient. If you are at 100%, things aren't very convenient or pleasant. One needs to find the level of self sufficiency where you are still happy living your life.

[@GrandmaBeth2dogs]

So cool, i saw there build way back.

[@rmlestes]

Thanks

[@takeitslowhomestead5218]

Very cool index!

[@MOHAWKris8]

ABSOLUTELY

[@monoshock57]

Gridlessness needs to move to AZ.

[@Iain1962]

I see it as not having to depend on government, or ask government's permission to do something on your land. Want to build a little building, just build it. Not being some sort of secluded isolated cult. Of course you will trade with other people, and why would you not have things like power tools and pumps and so on. How do you make a solar panel on your own for example? It's impossible to be completely self sufficient, you are going to need a doctor or dentist or some equipment you can easily buy but which would be very difficult to make and so on.

[@garysuderman174]

You could always make your own fuel for a generator but could you build your own generator? You could even build your own solar panels but could you make your own glass, all the components to make up your panels? If you get down to the nitty gritty, is it even possible to be completely self sufficient?

[@Wietzevanderlaan]

nice thanks for sharing

[@bobweglin9644]

So once an analysis is done do you give suggestions on how to improve the system you are looking at so the owner can get closer to 100%? For example have you done anything to boost the 59% score you have given yourself?

[@welderman1221]

Dick Proenneke lived mostly on eating beans, fish and buscuits. The fish, HE could provide, but he would get his beans and start for his biscuits in town

[@LucindaSutherland-w2u]

The GRID is usually explained as public utilities. Power, sewer, water, and natural gas brought directly and (pretty much) automatically to your house or property by the same municipality or company that your neighbors use is what we Americans mean by the grid. Being "off grid" means you (and your property) provide your own electricity, water, sewer, and heat. It used to include telephone, but local telephone companies and landlines are not considered an automatic choice these days. If those who question whether using Amazon deliveries is truly "off-grid" don't think you should have modern resources then I don't think they understand the basic concept. Do they also require the self-sufficient to refrain from using public roads, voting, paying taxes, and attending church?

[@Murphycats]

You can never be truly sef-sufficient because you still depend on the government for police force, the safety of the Armed Forces, hospitals etc. But you can be free of utilities and live a more sustainable life which I think is terrific.

[@welderman1221]

For the longest time there has always been a tradin post, for goods you cant produce!!!

[@sporranheid]

Being totally off-grid is possible but unlikely to coincide with total self-sufficiency. Interesting concept, but unless one lives in utter simplicity I doubt that it's altogether possible. Tools and machinery made entirely from scratch? P.V. panels, batteries, controllers self-made from raw materials? 🤔 😊

[@timklassen421]

Dick Proenneke relied on a plane to bring in supplies no man is a island we need God family and community for support .

[@Gridlessness]

Exact! Dick does NOT score 100% on the Gridlessness index.

[@fred-san]

Watch Humbert Richard seach this way ... -> NO metal roof, gutter etc (or insulated with greenrppf, plastic-wood gutter etc

[@wags9777]

Looking at the base footings on the big house it's not gonna be so tiny is it?

[@wags9777]

So if you put up a fence to keep free range cattle out they are no longer free range, right?

[@user-curtisingreenville]

Self-Sufficiency is always possible depending on just how basic you are going to be willing to make your life in order to achieve that. Now in todays age sure you can become that with many modern utilities like solar,etc,etc. But what if catastrophe happens to where none of those electronic gadgets can be powered properly or even at all? No supply chain to buy certain tech you have as part of your modernized off grid life? That will mean you have to really return to the most primitive basics. If you can make that happen you can sustain.

[@gsestream]

God be with-in you, so you dont have to rely on yourself.

[@Prince.Ali.Bomeye]

We rely on nature... God is with us always no?

[@gsestream]

no we dont, there is nothing without God first making it and up-keeping it.@@Prince.Ali.Bomeye

[@gsestream]

oh you mean must rely on you. oh ok. no.@@Prince.Ali.Bomeye

[@TheGonebald]

I’m an avid fan of Tiny Shiny Home. It was through them I found you guys. I hope they were able to show you their outhouse “Casa de Caca”.

[@Gridlessness]

Great to have you here!

[@AdamsAcres]

I’d love to know what Hot Dave’s GIS (Gridlessness Index Score) is!

[@budwilliams6590]

Jeff if you want true off grid spend some time with the Amish.

[@madmex2k]

Even they buy reflectors and horns to put on their horse drawn carriages, and also rely on purchases on grid. But yes, they are high in the rating system I am sure.

[@CanadianDreamer]

To me off grid simply means you are off the power grid. You do not need to give up all ties with society. That would be cultish.

[@LarryRichelli]

The more you learn and the more money you have is the key. If any of these people had the money for materials and help (Man power) they could have a house in a month. With enough water catchment and more solar then things would be better. I almost moved to this area but because I am a single, older man and while I could have afforded to buy 30 acres and build a small house. Doing this by myself just didn't make sense. I bought a small, new home near San Antonio. I have a huge battery an inverter so I use very little power from the grid. I have a large garage and I nice yard for my dog. I am strict vegan so my groceries are not expensive.

[@Martti-xp1re]

Keep one leg on grid the other leg of grid. The culture war need to be victorious alover. Freedom is our to have

[@user-curtisingreenville]

Foods self produced should be a huge percentage of a total grading system for self sufficiency. That and a reliable shelter. Habitation and food are the two biggest things. Buying propane should detract a huge percentage from an overall 100 grade. Going to a butchers shop to process meat should also detract heavily from score. The point of self sufficiency is knowing how to do for you and or your family on your own. Having a plan in place to use basic nature for lighting and heat as well as cooling and comfort without the need for solar power,generators and things of that nature should also be considered if you are becoming self reliant. For instance depending on the local climate can you provide proper heat to your dwelling without the use of power if need be. Can you provide proper cooling if need be without power for your location? Factor in the worst case scenario and provide yourself with known skills to make it happen in that scenario and still use your modern amenities if available. Preparedness is the key. Skills are the way.

[@lordofswarm538]

If you are trying to sell the meat you produce in order to pay the tax man, many places require the animals to be slaughtered and butchered by an FDA(or equivalent) certified butcher. My cousin raises pigs, and while we slaughter anything he uses for himself, he cannot legally sell it. This may be part of why these fine folks went with the butcher route. Another large percentage could be temporary, due to the lack of infrastructure, as they stated, being both prioritized, and potentially what is holding them back(make the house, or a temporary meat shack/butcher station first?).Pigs are incredibly heavy for just two people to get moved around and hung for butchering. Without a lift, or a wheeled hanging frame with a pulley system, is a MASSIVE undertaking. My cousin was not moving an over 400lb (let alone the 600lb that they max out at) mangalitsa boar without his forklift. He could probably fabricate a customized engine lift-type of device for just that sort of thing, but is still in the earlier stages of his self sufficiency route, mainly mortgage and infrastructure. I definitely agree with you though; the knowledge and ability to do for yourself, the better it gets in many ways. Often the opportunity cost for this is time spent building and getting other systems off the ground, and the score should reflect this, as you said. More hours in a day would be a dream come true.

[@komocka]

Few make their own clothes from natural fibers or from hides!

[@thehungryhunter3454]

The native Indians were the only ones that were ever self sufficient and yet they relied on each other as a group to be "off grid". It just wasn't meant to be that we as humans were to be self sufficient.

[@esmannr]

You are still self sufficient. Say you use only use manual tools. You use an axe to cut trees down. That's pretty self sufficient, right? But you had to buy the axe from a store or another person that bought it from a store? Maybe even Amazon.

[@markbrown9765]

For me I don't think 100% self sufficient should be the goal as it's unrealistic. For me/us the goal is about diminishing your cost to live and therefore release you from the never ending treadmill of suburban life. Look at how much you have to pay for your house payment, house insurance, taxes, car payments/insurance/gas, electricity, heating, cable, cell phone, internet, water, trash, etc. All of those things require monthly income and in totality make it mandatory to be harnessed to the standard treadmill of life...the daily grind where your existence is to go to work every day so you can then give away nearly everything you earn in monthly bills. That's income/your labor you just give away, after paying state and federal taxes, FICA, Medicare/Medicaid. Then, many of those have special taxes built in. This means you need to make about 25% more than you need just to pay all the taxes so you can then pay your bills. Then you just give it away, giving away your labor to someone else with nothing gained except survival. All these recurring bills are the trappings of life, it's a treadmill you can never get off of. Pay cash, go at the pace your cash flow demands and try to make every expenditure an effort to not have to pay that recurring cost ever again, or minimize it as much as possible. You'll always have to have income. But if you can make it so more and more of your income is yours you're headed in the right direction. Your video about the 1/4 million dollar outhouse really illustrated this.

[@aspendell209]

The main reason for the seeming explosion of everyday folk trying to be more self-sufficient these days is the innovation of infrastructure that allows high-tech items to be readily available. Most of these homestead startups wouldn't exist if we didn't have access to affordable and readily available tech like solar panels, charge controllers, high density battery systems, door hinges, plastic storage devices, screws, cell phone/internet provider, etc... All these things are part of "The grid". So it seems maybe your whole offgrid evaluation is misplaced, as the most self-sufficient homesteads tend to have the most products of the "the grid" already integrated into their infrastructure.

[@Gridlessness]

I fully agree… almost. Yes, our new homesteads rely on a lot of high-tech, manufactured equipment. But even a thousand years ago homesteads we’re using new fangled IRON tools. Basically if we don’t use technology, we would have to go back all the way to caveman, using rocks and sticks. However, to the extent that the Gridlessness index works, it really identifies an INCREASE in knowledge, ingenuity, skills, and self control. I believe this is a more useful metric than simply the lack of technology.

[@aspendell209]

@@Gridlessness I just think that the concept of "the grid" should be removed from the conversation in the big picture. If you drive on any public roads to go home or into town then you are paying the grid for that privilege, whether its via taxes or gas prices. When you pay up front for 30kw of solar panels and then get hit with a freak hail storm or lightning, or a huge boulder knocked free by the excavator up the hill, you will have to replace those, possibly 3 or 4X over 50 years. On the other hand you can buy a 6000 gallon tank full of fuel, for about the same price, and tell everyone that you paid no fuel bills for 10 years, and hence were off-grid. As you stated, nobody is completely off-grid. Even Dick Proeneke got mail and supplies delivered, his flight in and out each year, and all those fuel cans that he made neato tools out of. Mountain men before the West was mapped needed gunpowder and someone to sell their hides to. It wasn't efficient to try to make it themselves, even with a 6 months walk from civilization. I've been a long time follower of your voyage. You are obviously very intelligent. I like when you try new things, even if they have been done 100x before, it's a fresh perspective. I also like your visits to other's projects to see a snapshot of where they are.