Is string theory a failing model? | Eric Weinstein and Brian Greene go head to head again

[@TheInstituteOfArtAndIdeas]

Do you think the string theory community is problematic? Let us know in the comments below! To watch the full debate, visit iai.tv/video/the-trouble-with-string-theory?KZbin&+comment

[@hajsh67]

Note to all: the full video is locked behind a paywall

[@nosuchthing8]

At least they swapped out angels for dimensions on the head of a pin.

[@brendangreeves3775]

Logic determines that the absolute state is impossible and that change is necessary. A string taken to be a purely abstract, dynamic relative magnitude would seem plausible. Patterns emerge in higher dimensions from one dimension. Generalisation of what is known would seem to be the way to proceed.

[@ObiAdeGaming]

Walling off science behind a paywall is problematic... Unbelievable!

[@hajsh67]

@@ObiAdeGaming I don't mind a paywall in general when companies are up front about it. But showing short clips on youtube, then saying "go here to watch the full debate", followed by letting one minute of the full video play before asking you for a monthly subscription is what I have a problem with.

[@Mrperson662]

I wish I was smart enough to have an opinion on this

[@AR-tb9hq]

ha! same - to me they all seem way beyond anything I could ever understand

[@Daniel-ih4zh]

I wish other commentators realized this...

[@gogl0l386]

Basically the debate boils down to this. Scientific theories have two functions: explaining the data we have and making new predictions (that if successful should be correct). One would expect that using the scientific method that this would eventually lead to a fundamental theory about how the universe works, but for some reason it is instead that we have two inherently different and incompatible theories: one for small objects and one for big objects. This feels and is considered uncontroversially wrong. Like for example when is something considered "large" and what happens if you have an object that grows from "small" to "large" does the laws for that object just suddenly change? The only thing we have is string theory which explains some of the data and makes no predictions. Always in the past when we have a successful scientific theory it explains all the data and makes a bunch of new correct predictions. So basically those for String theory argue that we haven't had any other theory explaining the data for 100 years so it is worth researching this. And those against it argue that it isn't worth it because it doesn't follow the traits all other successful theories have had.

[@vaibhavk2400]

@@gogl0l386 Well, no. LQG for instance doesn’t even give GR in the semiclassical limit due to Sen’s work. Strings are worth it because of AdS/CFT, and recently a part of a collaboration I’m a part of showed an approach to dS/CFT, which is a stringy notion of our own universe. Hadronic physics has had some nice things, except SUSY, which in its own right explains a lot of the early universe we can physically attribute to. So string theory being “bad” isn’t true at all - only that SUSY hasn’t been found yet, but strings are elegant both mathematically as well as observationally. I am a physicist myself.

[@vaibhavk2400]

@@Daniel-ih4zh Exactly. I’m a physicist and I am absolutely baffled by people who watch a few videos claiming strings sucks

[@dougcoombes8497]

The issue here is string theory has never really been a theory supported by evidence. It is a hypothesis with internally consistent math. The math may be elegant, but if it doesn't make predictions that can be tested, then it isn't a scientific theory.

[@xxyyzz8464]

A solution looking for a problem that doesn’t exist. Indeed. To be fair in such criticism, we can say that about many “theories” out there.

[@dougcoombes8497]

@@xxyyzz8464 It originates with S-matrix from the 1940s which was attempting to explain why protons and neutrons are not pointlike particles. Which quantum chromodynamics has successfully explained stating in the 1960s. It's a hypothesis without a home that many still found appealing enough to work on.

[@dougcoombes8497]

@@theultimatereductionist7592 People are free to pursue string "theory" as much as they want. They just can't accurately refer to it as a scientific theory when it is not backed up by a firm base of empirical evidence. It was a hypothesis from the 1940s to answer a question about particle physics that has been more than addressed by quantum chromodynamics. It does belong outside of science in philosophy or some other body of human activity.

[@Flexible_photon]

@@theultimatereductionist7592 those things are far more useful for society as they provide entertainment and comfort. String Theory does no such thing except for it's few practitioners.

[@cybervigilante]

@@theultimatereductionist7592 Artists earn their keep by producing beauty for the general public. String theorists produce beauty only for each other and should pay each other.

[@raketensven3127]

The problem is that they use the phrase "The problem is.." so much that nobody knows anymore what the problem is.

[@levimaxton6307]

The problem is, "the problem is".

[@antoniohinojos3808]

Theres just alot of problems apparently.

[@stickfiftyfive]

99.. to be exact.

[@CalvinNoire]

The answer is 42.

[@cademosley4886]

The problem is it takes about 15 years of sustained full-time study to comprehend what the problem is.

[@besmus4983]

Lol Roger Penrose sitting there like "Why tf did i agree to this? I could be sitting at home right now enjoying a nice cup of tea."

[@sighfly2928]

For a man of that intellect, he may look annoyed, but trust me; he would feel 10x worse if he sat at his home alone.

[@daveinpublic]

@@sighfly2928ok I’ll trust you

[@MaddyIndia]

😂

[@cheryllee81]

Eric Weinstein doesn't look too happy either.

[@LuckyInCards]

@besmus4983 what geekie fun this is!

[@theonetruemorty4078]

I know there's one thing that we can all agree on: Michio Kaku... is out of control.

[@madhatter3492]

Because his reality was ripped apart, as yours will be, look to God.

[@kenclarke5966]

ahahahahahah indubitably.

[@InnerLuminosity]

@@madhatter3492 you are God😉

[@timgonzales2891]

I still don't understand what he meant by that lol. I'm a simple peasant though. That is a hilarious clip though

[@AmsterdamHeavy]

...and has been for 30 years.

[@tixch2000]

I actually experienced this situation while graduating in mathematical physics in Belgium. It was the year 1986 and I wanted to continue the studies towards a PhD. In the dept. there where many groups, but the strongest was string theorists. Proud of their 100s pages calculus which not many understood. I was discouraged to continue physics as it seemed to me so far away from it and I was not so keen in pure math after all. On top of that, no jobs in view...

[@wolfgangkranek376]

Someone said (I believe, they even have researched this), that a wrong scientific theory only dies out, when the generation of scientists adhering to it also have died out because of high age. Most people, including scientists, will never admit, that they wasted their whole live on a wrong idea.

[@kayakMike1000]

Nothing like a wall of mathematics to hide a suspect theory. Perfect camouflage.

[@geometerfpv2804]

Well, no matter which way you cut it, modern physics is extremely mathematical. The math in string theory is the same math in general relativity, were you planning on skipping that, too? I'm just saying: being a physicist means being good at abstract math.

[@tixch2000]

@@geometerfpv2804 Physics is about observing nature and derive the predictive best models from these observations, math or not. Observations changes all the time, so does our models. Maths are one tool (powerful I agree) but not the only one.The rest is intellectual games, or informed intuitions at best, and you might hit a gold stone or not.

[@M2orNot]

@@tixch2000 Pretty much every reputable modern theory relies on a rigorous mathematical model to be able to predict anything with any degree of accuracy, the complexity of which depends on how fundamental the physics are. You can't get away from math if you want to do most, if not all, forms of physics.

[@MeStevely]

After 50 years it's maybe time to take another approach.

[@cristianproust]

Any ideas?

[@joeschmoe2843]

@@cristianproust Slinky theory XD

[@TheVicar]

@@joeschmoe2843 What if steps didn't exist?

[@vaibhavk2400]

Nope. String theory is good enough. I don’t get why the unaware public is trying to speak out on strings just because they saw a couple of videos online.

[@ankansenapati3600]

​@@vaibhavk2400because our tax payer money funding this research and we are stuck nearly for 50 years

[@liallhristendorff5218]

Why did this feel like a therapy session?

[@MikeWiest]

Weinstein

[@user-is3yn7xr4c]

Eric Weinstein is a real charlatan mathematician

[@cronoukie]

anyone else here just thinking, I want to hug Roger Penrose. He reminds me of my grandfather at every family get together. Has lived through life, been through this so many times, he's just enjoying being around the next generation that is starting to do the same. This video gets a like - thanks so much for keeping the conversation going!

[@manjsher3094]

My grandfather was a creep, so no.

[@kitkakitteh]

So, you have to work in string Theory, or you don’t work. It’s the Emperor’s New Clothes. I applaud Eric for his bravery in stating the obvious to people that have a vested interest in silencing it.

[@doesntmatter4477]

You are the perfect sucker that everyone within any group or institution relies on to be manipulated whenever there's a need for some public sheep to prop up or legitimize whatever corrupt project they're involved in at any given time. All they need is enough gullible people who believe anything at face value if u say it with confidence and use the right tone of voice or body language that they know will more than convince ur type every time

[@doesntmatter4477]

You are the perfect sucker that everyone within any group or institution relies on to be manipulated whenever there's a need for some public sheep to prop up or legitimize whatever corrupt project they're involved in at any given time. All they need is enough gullible people who believe anything at face value if u say it with confidence and use the right tone of voice or body language that they know will more than convince ur type every time

[@doesntmatter4477]

You are the perfect sucker that everyone within any group or institution relies on to be manipulated whenever there's a need for some public sheep to prop up or legitimize whatever corrupt project they're involved in at any given time. All they need is enough gullible people who believe anything at face value if u say it with confidence and use the right tone of voice or body language that they know will more than convince ur type every time

[@user-is3yn7xr4c]

Eric Weinstein is a real charlatan mathematician

[@kalijasin]

"Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality."-- Nikola Tesla

[@somethingawesome9547]

YES!

[@AliothAncalagon]

Tesla should have wandered through a few more equations, then he would have known from the start that his "lets charge up the entire atmosphere with these towers so we get a wireless electricity grid" was absolutely stupid.

[@MrBond0071984]

@ AliothAncalagon Yeah he was clearly a dummy🙄I look forward to seeing your many inventions, and contributions to better understanding and harnessing one of the most important forces in the universe.

[@AliothAncalagon]

@@MrBond0071984 Thats the core thing many laymen don't understand. They think a genius is a genius and thats that. Or that an idiot is an idiot and thats that. But thats not how this works. People aren't this consistent. Newton was a genius, when he came up with calculus. And he was a dumbass when he tried to find the philosophers stone. Einstein was a genius when he came up with general relativity. And he was a stubborn idiot, when he kept denying Quantum Mechanics. In the very same sense Tesla was a genius when he developed his induction motor. And he was a complete moron, when he fought against relativity, the emerging atomic model or, as I said, when he tried to come up with his wireless electricity grid.

[@vaibhavk2400]

No. This doesn’t apply to theoretical physics. As a physicist there is nothing worse than a bunch of people arguing what we are working on is wrong or useless without understanding so much as a single equation or a single paper.

[@takashitamagawa5881]

What Sabine Hossenfelder has said particularly stands out: that the test of a theory is whether one gets more out of it than one puts into it. General relativity easily passes this test, as does the basic quantum mechanics established in the early 20th Century. Other theories, such as QED, are less clear cut. String theory seems a distance away from achieving this milestone.

[@varany3376]

That's following Imre Lakatos' idea of a research programme. The programme develops and tests a body of theories, then as long as there are worthwhile tests to carry out ("producing empirical content or novel facts" as Lakatos put it), then the programme is just happily marching along. However, eventually it is exhausted and then either put on a pause or abandoned altogether. The problem is that many scientists are not aware of how the Lakatos framework is supposed to work and instead rely on Popper's notion of naive falsification. As long as they are "not proven wrong" they believe they ought to continue their work, when the real question they should be asking is "Is all this worth my time and efforts?".

[@josehawking5293]

Sabine Rocks!

[@Don.Challenger]

Sabine Hossenfelder also helpfully explains that for fusion technology one must also get more energy out than one initially puts into it, this then suggests that string theory may be a multiverse analogue of fusion power - two universes of intellectual endeavor that as applications of time, intellect, capital and effort soak those resources from every other parallel activity to no discernable positive effect. Will those black holes ever evaporate?

[@dumbfailurekms]

@@Don.Challenger she also calls eric weinstein a dumbass

[@tma2001]

@@theultimatereductionist7592 that's the pitfall many reseachers fall into - not everything that is beautiful is true when it comes to ideas. Also plenty of forms of entertainment that not beautiful like bull fighting. The Taliban have made a pretty good go at bringing your suggestion into reality.

[@neilaspinall5005]

I remember a physics postgrad about 20 years ago complaining that if the research proposal didn't include the words "string theory" then funding would not be forthcoming. The theory has consumed vast quantities of clever people's time, and delivered nothing remotely useful. And worse, has displaced other work to such an extent that Physics generally seems to have delivered nothing of much value in the last 30 years.

[@off6848]

Its anti physics yes. A vacuous vampire. Perhaps in a round about way it has discovered anti-gravity by putting a mental void in so many peoples mind.

[@williambranch4283]

Academic grifters

[@2LegHumanist]

People said the same about artificial neural networks until 2007.

[@bruceli9094]

Climate change is the new grift. As it was with String Theory.

[@pauldirc..]

​@@2LegHumanistwhat they said ?

[@PJM273]

Sir Roger's demeanor here while Eric is talking is just perfect. You can almost see the thought-bubble over his head - "I'd rather be doing science with scientists - or literally anything else for that matter - than be here."

[@spuriustadius5034]

Yep. I noticed. I guess he has finally realized what he got himself into. One would think that scientists at his level would have assistants that would warn about and prevent these situations from happening in the first place. But I guess not, maybe Penrose doesn't have anyone who can just tell him: "Dude, no, that's a bad idea."

[@alexgonzo5508]

Sir Roger had the same demeanor with Jordan Peterson in an interview i saw not too long ago.

[@CausallyExplained]

@@alexgonzo5508 I mean, JP is the true definition of moron.

[@markoates9057]

Eric yaking along, whining about why people don't take him seriously. That seems to be his whole vibe 90% of the time, along with spitting some occasional word salad for effect. Penrose knows exactly what's going on, and cant wait to gtfo this playground argument.

[@Novarcharesk]

Penrose has always been like this. This isn't related to this particular argument.

[@richardabbot8724]

This is a particular example of a general, society wide problem. There are many disciplines where an elite has walled themselves off, creating only self-referential assertions.

[@Phasma6969]

There is another term for those who enjoy the odorous scent of primarily methane expelled from the rear.

[@TheBoogerJames]

*cough* economics *cough*

[@Bolaniullen]

Lack of bandwidth is the plague we all suffer too , constantly maxed out attention and a shriveling concentration span on top ! it's so over ... it's never been more over

[@geometerfpv2804]

It's not as self-referential as it might seem to you. There is a valid criticism here, but the scientific community has also been incredibly successful at actually making things work. So...I think it's a case of "this is the best system we have". Brian is right, you literally can't consider every theory. He wasn't exaggerating when he said it could take a month to understand someone's theory, and 99% of the time, you're wasting that time just to show that they were wrong in the end. That's why we focused on "credentialed" people. There needs to be some system to filter out all the stuff that would waste enormous amounts of time. This DOES lead to elitism and nepotism, yes, but what is the alternative? I don't think lay people really can understand what a massive investment it is to read a theory, even when you are an expert. This is a thing that takes hundreds and hundreds of hours to do. So, you have to be very careful about how you apply that time. Given that, are you going to read the next theory from the MIT guy famous for making good ones, or are you going to Eric Weinstein's "academia rejects my theory, but I'm telling you, it's correct!" theory. Keep in mind, it's a job. You have to publish accepted work to get hired and promoted, so it's not like you can afford a charity case. You'd probably do what we all do: read the person with credentials, because they are *likely* (not certain to) have something worth the time.

[@TheBoogerJames]

@geometerfpv2804 that's not how science works at all. You don't have to have a PhD to be correct.

[@rayhume1971]

Regardless of it's untestability, as long as people can pay their mortgages promoting String Theory, it will be something we have to hear about.

[@rodneynorfolk9737]

thank you

[@annaclarafenyo8185]

String theory doesn't make money, and it's not expensive to research. It's the most important theory physics has ever developed, it produced more insight into quantum gravity than anything that came before. The claims of people like Weinberg are pure fraud.

[@KarlKarsnark]

+1000 Internet Points for the "Eek-A-Mouse" reference! Also, correct on shilling this Snake Oil. As long as it sells, it will be sold.

[@paxdriver]

Space-time was un-testable too, until we got computers, and colliders and laser interferometers decades later. Same with atomic theory, chemistry, hell even machine learning was developed decades before we had multi-core CPUs never mind tensor core GPUs, FPGAs and TPUs. Point being: science is science until it is ruled out, not because of how we feel about it or until we get bored of trying to understand it. The biggest problem with populatizing theoretical physics as I see it (albeit the lesser evil) is conflating the every day world of "preference is MY truth and that's just as valid as objective observation" with science, which by definition aims to be impartial and strictly objective lest it be considered invalid unilaterally by default.

[@Burglecutter]

@@rayhume1971 String theory is a very elegant idea. The math is compelling in the way that the theory can be transformed into multiple models of string theory and remains essentially consistent.

[@kishan852]

I love how the smartest guy in the room is just sitting there listening lol

[@AliciaGuitar]

That is how he became the smartest

[@andyhammond32]

...i think this is the Whole.lroblem Eric has... The smart people are silent.

[@olartio2185]

They know they spent the last 40 years in ed wittens max security prison

[@iampiyushsingh7544]

​@@olartio2185😂

[@Ola-fh1er]

oh it was just a 10 minute sample? I am disappointed

[@Jacob-Vivimord]

The full video is in the description. It's free.

[@boutek]

@@Jacob-Vivimord it's not free

[@Jacob-Vivimord]

@@boutek Ah, right you are! They tricked me, the dirty dogs!

[@monasautes4665]

The link works now.

[@faceplants2]

@@boutek Seems like string theorists maintaining the walled garden yet again.

[@jaskbi]

Cutting edge scientific conversations behind a paywall, i dont know how i feel about that

[@paxdriver]

Eric Weinstein didn't have time to check out the only scientific critique of his own unified theory, but he had the time to do dozens of podcasts over the last 10 years complaining about other scientists not doing science and ignoring his work - which is totally scientific lol. "there is no reciprocal interest because this community simply thinks it is smarter than other communities...." I love listening to Eric, he's a smart guy no doubt. Entertaining fellow too, provocative thinker in many cases; but his hypocrisy is starting to really get under my skin. It's hard to respect such a whiner when he just won't stop with his fantasy ego trip about the "cabal of PhDs out to get him". This must be what it was like for friends of Nietzsche watching a brilliant mind descend into psychosis... It's terribly sad real physicists keep giving him a platform despite his fans clamouring for years to get Eric to restart his briefly sensational podcast.

[@tarico4436]

I did like his podcast.

[@yeezythabest]

You're spot on! And Brian Greene is really the wrong person to address all this to.

[@DarthScalar]

Maybe he’s waiting for proofs of the criticisms? Although, I concede, that goes both ways..

[@ChrisMissal]

Eric is always chasing the car, but doesn't have the interpersonal skills to collaborate

[@logicbomb8977]

Eric literally admits he might be wrong…and has done so on numerous occasions. No string theorist has ever said that

[@JC-uk7tf]

I found the moment at 09:30 funny, where he clearly says something quite interesting and Sir Roger Penrose sort of wakes up and you can see him thoroughly considering this idea.

[@yaboyremo3657]

Absolutely noticed that too

[@gregorys5329]

@@jackalclone1 I don't know why so many people are repeating this, but it wasn't Penrose who wrote the paper. Kerr wrote the paper explaining why Penrose's original terminating geodesic argument is faulty. The same Kerr who solved the GR equation for the rotating black hole.

[@jackalclone1]

@@gregorys5329 ah shoot, you're absolutely correct. I was mixing up my famous physicists. I'll retract my other comment

[@HolyMith]

He perked up a bit because Weinstein is echoing a sentiment that he also holds. That being that forcing quantum rules on gravity is only part of the picture, if any at all. The quantum theories we have also need to be "gravitized". The tempting assumption is that, since QM deals with the smallest phenomena in the universe, then gravity must be an emergent phenomenon that arises out of that. But it may well be the case that the spacetime curvature depicted in GR may be a fundamental aspect of spacetime at the quantum level, and thus has to be treated with modified GR rules.

[@Sycokay]

Has string theory actually ever accomplished anything? I mean besides giving mathematicians something to sink their teeth in.

[@MJ1]

Does that really matter? It hasn't accomplished much and maybe never will. There are many theories that couldn't be proven until technologies improved. We are impatient.

[@off6848]

@@MJ1 Dumb. If it can't produce actual work it is trash and fantasy. We need another Tesla or at the least to revisit Tesla's work which went completely ignored and falsely falsified by the same mean girl politics and pagentry that infects and stupifies physics today.

[@baTonkaTruck]

@@MJ1 Of course it matters. Spending time and effort should yield something valuable to society, that’s the POINT of science. Academics who think they can just faff around in an echo chamber providing NO valuable theories to drive engineering/products, NOR producing comprehensible ideas to expand society’s understanding, are a complete waste, and should be walked out of academia and into the gutter where they belong.

[@ankansenapati3600]

​@@MJ1relativity just proved right now

[@mathematicalmonk1427]

@@MJ1 I don't think the problem is impatience the problem is how string theory has consumed all of physics that young researchers are sort of forced into it .

[@AdamTait-hy2qh]

When looking for competent explanations of things, never ask Eric Weinstein.

[@pcproffy]

Hold on, let me give you a 50 minute explanation to a 5 minute problem.

[@pookz3067]

How else will he be able to editorialize and overdramatize things in order to tell you how to think?

[@CharlesDeMar]

It’s not about bearing fruit, it’s about funding.

[@nosuchthing8]

No, bearing fruit too

[@ryanellis424]

Having only had an amateur yotube physics education for many years, i almost understood this.. ..but my ego allowed me to feel proud for understanding it all😶

[@custodioarmindogungulo8465]

Brian, always humble as it should be.

[@joemagarac405]

Eric Weinstein complains that physicists such as Greene don’t listen to his takes but when Tim Nguyen did a deep dive on Weinstein’s GU “theory” in good faith, finding numerous fatal flaws, Weinstein went after Nguyen and his collaborator (who used a pseudonym because he was afraid of potential adverse consequences for his career, something Weinstein of all people should be respectful of). The attacks on Nguyen were so irrational and his failure to engage was so cowardly that it’s bizarre people keep inviting him to do these kinds of talks. Were Peter Woit or Lee Smolin not available?

[@gregmark1688]

I think the more useful question is "Has string theory ever been successful as a model?" What has it ever successfully predicted?

[@evanliveshere]

it's a secret

[@Raydensheraj]

General Relativity emerges naturally in MTheory - just for example.

[@ok9176]

@@Raydensheraj that is by no means a validation of the theory. I can pull a theory out of a hat that somehow fixes the GR & quantum issue but doesn’t make it true at all. A theory has no evidence until there is experimental evidence and there is none for string theory.

[@karabomothupi9759]

@@ok9176 facts

[@sergeysmyshlyaev9716]

​@@Raydensheraj That's very interesting! Can you give a link to any papers/books to get familiar with how GR emerges in MTheory? In particular, I'm interested in whether MTheory say anything about gravitational waves having or not having mass.

[@achiltsompanos447]

The comments about Kaku were pure gold!

[@Enkarashaddam]

He's out of control!

[@Cbart23]

I like how he memorizes his lecture/interview and repeats it like a parakeet on demand.

[@seanneumann5790]

Thanks for hosting this discussion. Just a note that following the link to the full video (on the website) from within the KZbin app, features an extremely buggy media player. This creates a negative user experience.

[@jakubjodlowski8416]

Please give us the whole episode 🙏

[@extremelyunfocusedman]

They won't, iai turned into a subscription based KZbin lure

[@je8367]

This kind of content should be free to watch. Not charge people to see the full debate.

[@isatousarr7044]

String theory, while a highly ambitious and influential framework in theoretical physics, faces both significant achievements and notable challenges. It aims to provide a unified description of all fundamental forces and particles by proposing that the basic building blocks of the universe are one-dimensional "strings" rather than point-like particles. This approach offers potential solutions to various issues in particle physics, including the unification of gravity with quantum mechanics and the resolution of inconsistencies in current theories. However, string theory also faces criticisms and challenges. It has not yet produced definitive experimental predictions that can be tested with current technology, which has led some to question its empirical validity. Additionally, the theory's reliance on higher dimensions and complex mathematical constructs makes it difficult to test and verify. Is string theory considered a failing model because it has not yet yielded testable predictions or experimental evidence, or is it still a valuable framework for advancing theoretical understanding? What are the current efforts and future directions in string theory research that might address its challenges and provide empirical support?

[@eloiinvestigates]

Holy moly, he went there. He made the 'perma jobs for boomers' point.

[@CalvinHikes]

Eric has been strangely mad about this subject for quite some time and I'm sure he's pleased to get a platform to argue against it.

[@drockopotamus1]

@@hugogrotius3323 lol wrong on vague "other stuff". Good to know, I guess?

[@lukekelly5115]

​@@CalvinHikeshow much bigger platform than Rogan does one need? Its very surface level but certainly comes right out and says the same thing. An obscene amount of people have listened to it.

[@puretone4970]

@@lukekelly5115 He wants recognition from his (assumed) peers. Lack of recognition from his peers is exactly what is driving his hate of science. He has never stopped to think that maybe he isn't getting any recognition because he isn't presenting anything useful. Sure, he can impress lay audiences with vague allusions to some deeper understanding... Especially the Rogan kind of audience, but he isn't doing anything that is impressing physicists or other scientifically minded people.

[@____uncompetative]

@@puretone4970 You don't know what you are talking about.

[@denishclarke4470]

My favorite physicist just listening to these people arguing on string theory. Isn't it lovely

[@brendawilliams8062]

Sir Penrose. A legend.

[@aaronaragon7838]

Brian Greene is one of the great explicators of our Age.

[@steve8510]

I don't think we should pick on him for his grooming habits.

[@hosoiarchives4858]

He’s a huckster and a fraud

[@Piernic]

Brian Greene is a thug.

[@glovere2]

This is one of those videos where the comment section is at least as interesting as the video. The comments are helpful for non-physicists by contextualizing some of the material. They teach you some of the history of this argument and fill in the details of the various players. It feels like time well spent for anyone interested in the topic who might not be a string theorist.

[@bettyeldridge]

If you have time take time to read the Constructor Theory paper that was awarded the Nobel prize. The words are so far from normal language that after reading and re-reading that paper and other papers that came up in the readings , well my 91 years old brain and my aged body trembled and my mind was truely boggled. Arthur H. Compton was the quantum physicist whose work was in the headlines when I was born January 2, 1932 Who benefited from his work? Me, I did....gamma rays must do some thing?

[@ronking5103]

I think if you look at what Wolfram is doing with his computational models of physics, you'll find a lot of what Deutsch was proposing. An informational basis that describes possible states of reality, vs not-possible states of reality.

[@bettyeldridge]

@@ronking5103 I have no degree but I read a lot and I was amused when I read a mention of the constructor theory . The theory as it was described defined the meaning of the theory as simple:: Anything that seems impossible becomes possible when new information is found. I looked for the definition of a word in the theory : " ergodic › Wikipedia Ergodic theory is a branch of mathematics that studies statistical properties of deterministic dynamical systems; it is the study of ergodicity. In this context, "statistical properties" refers to properties which are expressed through the behavior of time averages of various functions along trajectories of dynamical systems. The notion of deterministic dynamical systems assumes that the equations determining the dynamics do not contain any random perturbations, noise, etc. Thus, the statistics with which we are concerned are properties of the dynamics. Ergodic theory, like probability theory, is based on general notions of measure theory. Its initial development was motivated by problems of statistical physics." Well isn't the word impossible to apply any meaning to because statistics are never exact. Its a word that I HATE passionately, for some reason I've never understood. I have hated the way statistics are gathered and used in science as truth . mathematics can't be generalized, infinity can't be specific, not ever.

[@fullyverified7491]

That's amazing your reading these things at 91!

[@Existidor.Serial137]

its amazing she can comment on YT at that age.@@fullyverified7491

[@eveningstarnm3107]

Anyone who was listening lost interest in string theory in the 2000s, but we still let Brian Greene have his Nova special. Our corporate media cares less about giving us good information information than it does about making a profit.

[@aaron2709]

You think PBS is 'making a profit'?

[@mostlysunny582]

@@aaron2709 No, but they don't mind extra government as well as outside funding. PBS is not for profit, but they can definitely be used as tool to generate profits for their biggest interest or donors.

[@nosuchthing8]

People have an interest in physics. BG has always made clear that until string theory makes some testable predictions, it's basically religion.

[@jamesphilip4402]

Michio Kaku is out of control!

[@andybaldman]

Lol

[@cristianproust]

True, but he is old as dirt. Not particularly unusual

[@florencebaendes2853]

You said it because he is Asian. If he was white then we would see different sentiment lmfao

[@vaibhavk2400]

@@florencebaendes2853 No one except Penrose is a real physicist here for that matter

[@themanofshadows]

@@florencebaendes2853Bullshit

[@DarthScalar]

Is it just me, or is it amazing that the great Roger Penrose is almost falling asleep during this fervent exchange? 🤣

[@off6848]

Dude is old and beyond the BS its really to be expected if anything.

[@TheVicar]

@@off6848 He's clearly switched off from the discussion and is trying to work out how to kill all the dandelions in his garden, once and for all A solution that has evaded mankind for centuries

[@off6848]

@@TheVicar Hire children to make flower crowns for old ladies

[@fullyverified7491]

Dudes 92 give him a break lol

[@redacted5052]

Brian Greene ignited my passion for physics; Eric turned it into a small inferno.

[@VidHardt]

When I worked with Brian Greene on The Elegant Universe, I specifically and explicitly tried to help shape a book that was antithetical to Kaku's overstated approach: i.e., to stress that this first book of Brian's, at least, would emphasize the process of trying to discover a 'theory of everything' rather than ever explicitly state that strings/superstrings/M-theory was the likely solution to the underlying problems in physics. --Vid Hardt aka David Steinhardt

[@Traisas]

I read this book as a layman and found it quite understandable and balanced. Thank you for your good work!

[@88mphDrBrown]

I'm very skeptical of anyone so lazy their alias is just their name with half of the letters removed. If you're willing to take this sort of shortcut, one must wonder how many more shortcuts are you taking with your work? 🤔

[@das_it_mane]

@@88mphDrBrown that's just petty and rude.

[@drockopotamus1]

@@das_it_mane What's rude or petty about it? Have a bit of self-worth, hot damn. Want to be taken seriously? Act serious.

[@keshavglass6291]

@@88mphDrBrown 88mphDrBrown is that your real legal name? I better see it on a passport to take you seriously

[@doodelay]

Here's everything string theory predicts: 1. There are 10-11 spatial dimensions 2. Physical objects exist in higher dimensional space 3. Strings are the basic unit of matter and energy 4. Branes are giant hyper dimensional objects that strings imply 5. Cosmic strings exist and can be vastly larger than galaxies. They can also chop physical, 3D objects into pieces such as a planet 6. There's 10^500 types of universes 7. Spatial Dimensions greater than 3 are extremely tiny and curled. 8. Multiple Higgs bosons 9. Supersymmetry and a partner particle for every one already discovered. 10. Strings have the energy of trains moving top speed 11. Micro black holes 12. Predicted WIMPS via SUSY, this failed. 13. A positively curved universe would be a massive issue, according to Leonard Susskind 14. String size are on the [same] scale of the Planck length, just 10^-35 m. Or 100 billion- trillion- trillion times smaller than a meter. Or 19 orders of magnitude smaller than quarks. 15. One string can lift 10^40 mac trucks 16. The graviton 17. Tachyons 18. Grand unification 19. Emergent spacetime through entanglement

[@doodelay]

Obviously none of these have been substantiated

[@pn2543]

props to Sir Roger for sitting so patiently through all that

[@francisconsole3892]

Yes he does that rather well.

[@rainguynw]

As I have said before, Eric Weinstein can take a simple concept of physics and make it incomprehensible in five minutes or less. Although it usually takes him 20 minutes.😊

[@markcarey67]

Totally - I remember at one point on another stream he had me thinking I didn't understand what a fiber bundle was but then I went back and looked it up and, nah, it was exactly what I originally thought it was - It's the opposite of science communication.

[@ElSoMbRiO19]

He is just saying that there is a clear tribalistic bias, almost religious in the physics comunity. Either youre part of the "cool guys" with the string theory that happens to not have give it ANY real use to society bc after 70 years the theory is not complete or either youre part of the "dumb guys" wich is basically every other physician. In result, hundreds and hundreds of really intelligent people carrers are being throw in a volcano bc the string community is so proudly blind that they cannot NEVER admit that maybe the string theory is just a whole missconception.

[@Carfeu]

Just word salad to look smart

[@BT-kc3ee]

Weinstein is incredibly pompous

[@No_moral_to_the_story]

If he talked in a way that people could understand then people would start to realize his views on the subject are irrational and contradicted by evidence. The guy hides his ineptitude by stringing together smart sounding phrases that people without years of study can grasp.

[@mehg8407]

Eric Weinstein: they said mean things Also Eric: spends most of the video launching personal attacks What a joke.

[@off6848]

I'm not a huge fan of old Eraser Head but this is a very incomplete view of what happened. He also continually complimented Brian Greene which is not something I could ever do as he is truly a moron.

[@leooo2066]

@@off6848 what background do you have in order to call someone like Brian a moron lmao

[@das_it_mane]

Projection is a bitch

[@medicalphysics-lt2wo]

@@off6848 how do you know that he is a moron?

[@torontoyao]

That panel with Shermer, Hossenfelder, Greene and Weinstein is 🤯 wow

[@munso089]

Why not out the whole video on KZbin?

[@josephlevine3045]

Can we talk about the fact that the Nobel Prize winner is doing the least amount of talking?

[@ANTIStraussian]

We needed eric crying for 29 minutes complaining about not being respected for being a crank

[@colindickson6099]

imagine thinking this weinstein guy has anything pertinent to say about string theory.

[@vincentrusso4332]

Eric wants to talk mannerisms while Brian wants to talk physics and math... while Sabine says shut up and calculate.

[@madallas_mons]

Psychology and behaviour are critical factors to consider in an institution where not everyone is an egoless, perfectly rational autist. Humans lie, cheat and deceive, even in fields which should be mostly mathematically driven

[@HouseJawn]

Eric always looks so immature in these debates.."no one's listens to my theory" 😭

[@LeeLee-kk1qu]

I don't think he was immature, rather I think he feels jaded and slighted but for good reason. I believe he was respectful. Also he does have a point about listening to his theory because the people in string theory that control science community will often say "let's see your theory".

[@pookz3067]

@@LeeLee-kk1quthere are those willing to listen to and discuss his theory though. Yet he seems to prefer acting like a victim instead of engaging with his critics honestly and constructively to try to spread his theory.

[@kammonkam4905]

​​@@LeeLee-kk1qu He doesn't have a theory, just word salad and he is miff that he is not taken seriously. Poor me. He had a chance to talk to an Oxford audience thanks to Marcus du Sautoy. But it was just the same word salad hand waving. Du Sautoy, a serious mathematician, himself ended up looking like a fool for giving him a platform. EW promised in the Oxford talk an upcoming paper in which he would layout the details. The paper never came until 2021 and he announced he has a draft on Joe Rogan🤣 Turned out to be more mumble jumbo, analogies and bs. The man is either delusional or a self conscious con man.

[@KobeBryantt237]

Thank you Eric for making efforts to push physics forward

[@philiphodgesnz]

"Michio Kaku is out of Control!" ;-)

[@orwelgeorge8061]

Link to full video doesn’t work

[@ztdaddy2319]

As a non-scientist, I remember Michio Kaku in the 1980's going on his radio show week after week evangelizing string theory, and doomsaying the dangers of nuclear power. Now two generations have passed, and string theory appears to have bogged down in a predictable tar pit and people are awakening to the idea that nuclear power is the best option for safe carbon-free power.

[@bastiaanvanbeek]

String theory isn't to be taken seriously at this moment. It is more of a sepculative theory, or rather a hypothesis. It can be interesting intellectually, but nothing more.

[@ibringthelastwords1358]

I personally believe in string or M theory. I believe in extra dimensions as the way the quantum mechanics works. It is safe to say that we cannot prove or disprove that theory with our current state of understanding and technology. Maybe in a hundred years from now that we have enough knowledge to prove that.

[@tbunreall]

@@loduk102 I personally don't think humans will ever fully understand the universe. We'll just never be advanced enough to test the things we need to.

[@douglasmurdoch7247]

Just realize that if you are so willing to exercise blind faith in something untestable, and ultimately unknowable, you should just turn to religion. It’s pure faith.

[@NightmareCourtPictures]

My energy dog ate my energy homework lol

[@murrethmedia]

My feeling is whether String Theory ultimately ends up being correct or incorrect is irrelevant, we should continue working on it if for no other reason than to eliminate it as one of the many possibilities that exist, if in fact it isn't correct. We learn more from our failures than our successes.

[@backpain100]

I agree, but the issue is that the manpower/brainpower funding that it takes away from other possibly viable theories. I think that's the point of contention.

[@CharisMR]

Totally agree, I hadn't thought about it in this way and you are certainly right.

[@MargotDobbie]

That is moronic

[@TurdFerguson456]

Eggs...actly

[@worker-wf2em]

How do you eliminate a theory when those who cling to it continually move the goal posts?

[@bettersteps]

3:15 The man who admits that he's not afraid of being wrong is a man willing to learn. Some of the greatest moments I've ever had in my life was realizing that I was wrong.

[@stellarwind1946]

Eric comes across as a sort of a crybaby

[@onepartyroule]

It seems like our notion of what a “community “ is has become extremely shallow.

[@joeschmoe2843]

It's held together with...string. XD

[@TurdFerguson456]

Eric also seems to get his feelings hurt way too often by everyone

[@Trizzer89]

Dang, I didnt know the field was so toxic. Sad AF

[@turdbooger6051]

I find the most frustrating thing is being taught that in science theory does not preclude to an idea as in other fields of inquiry. Theory is above laws, principle and facts. Theory of relativity, theory of evolution… but then we get string theory… then we get physicists saying I don’t have time to go through every “theory”. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@juechhakchhuak4979]

So, this is basically Eric Weinstein holding grudges.

[@JrobAlmighty]

Because he wants to grift his nonsense and won't release a peer reviewed paper. He just wants everyone to accept his grand verbose adjective rich explanations of things that explain no overall prong of a test for anything let alone his own theories he has barely released or been willing to publicly debate/discussion. I'm not even a physicist and I can regurgitate arguments against string theory. Why is he even included here lol.

[@vaibhavk2400]

@@JrobAlmighty That’s the thing. I am a physicist, and I get asked if strings are right. I can bet my money they are, because it works. Half the public comments that string theory is bad even though they don’t know the first thing about physics.

[@5678plm]

@@vaibhavk2400 correct, after taking courses on string theory, I realized why string theorists don't want to debate people. People are clueless about string theory but will still hold opinions on the subject.

[@user-us2zg5uy5c]

@@JrobAlmighty Peer review, if you've paid attention, is not what it is cracked up to be. Much of science has taken on a religious like dogma - much of which seems evident on the reverence for String Theory.

[@lilsmokey5553]

his personal problems dont speak to the value of his idead

[@Evolution.1859]

String theory is not only not right, it’s not even wrong.🤦🏼‍♀️

[@batmanrobin6848]

lol

[@gibbogle]

Woit.

[@universoajedrez1118]

I would love to watch Ed Witten participating in this debate

[@zelfjizef454]

Yeah because it was three against one here, and on a TV screen at that.

[@brianboyle2681]

He’s more interested in teaching now, which to his credit he is great at and isn’t playing the ego game.

[@____uncompetative]

@@zelfjizef454 I would have grabbed the remote and switched it to The Weather Channel.

[@softwarephil1709]

Witten is so quiet and low key that he would never get a word in with Eric there.

[@Clintessential369]

This was just getting good! Well edited!

[@mistake920]

And the full debate video is behind a pay-wall?

[@paullb2440]

Please put full video on KZbin as there’s no captions on your website and I have hearing problems

[@Custodian123]

It will be exciting when AI is advanced enough to act as a co-pilot to go through other thesis. People wont have the excuse that they dont have time.

[@Cant_find_good_Handle]

Another concern is that string theory might prove to be true, but we might have missed a good theory somewhere in-between the current testable theory’s of quantum mechanics and relativity and the currently untestable string theory. At least with todays experiments. We could be missing out on a lot of technological advancement. Chemistry and Newtonian physics are good approximations of the universe but relativity and quantum mechanics were needed for nuclear bombs and gravitational lensing telescopes. I would be happy with some kind of quirky theory that combines relativity and quantum mechanics but requires a bunch of charts of constants you have to interpret from. I guess I would like to see some kind of faster than light travel be either invented or proven to be false with a much greater certainty than today.

[@shadowkille8r99]

What?? How is chemistry a "good approximation" of the universe when all that theoretical chemists work on is quantum mechanics? The rest of the chemistry field doesn't even attempt to "approximate" the universe, so what are you even on about???????

[@hellraiser7118]

Arm chair scientist here 🤚🏻 , Is it possible string theory is just missing an input? One from assuming space is a void for an example? If everything is connected, and everything is in motion , then maybe there is a medium that everything is in. The medium is interacting directly with matter, in waves. These waves are the resonance that give matter its ability to take shape. Like two waves crashing. The exact place we get our geometry from. Then every piece has a specific frequency it resonates at. Which would mean everything is something because its vibrating at a certain frequency. Like sand on a table instantly changing patterns to different frequencies. Or how they killed leukemia cells by hitting it with a certain frequency causing the replicated cells to shatter , and the original cell to swell and die. these past couple years with what they are finding about biology, and things being done with frequency i think there is a strong standing point on this being what gets us to the next level. Maybe consciousness is collective, and we are all on this ride together connected. Hurdling through this river of force of electricity and magnetism , and the introduction of vibration is what set everything off. Something like that 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@MD-zm6sn]

More fields, more professors, more money.

[@blengi]

it's almost like the cart is before the horse. String theory grandiosely presupposes the fundamental structure of things and hopes some magical constraints emerge down the line, whereas SR elaborates reality from the notion of invariance of C, GR the equivalence of acceleration and gravity, QM uncertainty principle and then constrains the underlying fabric of things. As classes of thought with respect to adducing the nature of things string theory seems to disconnect itself from deep intuitively compelling motivating principles which have previously created parsimony....

[@christophercousins184]

How does Eric get on these panels? Ugh.

[@audiodead7302]

That's show business.

[@CognosSquare]

Because he dominated this discussion on merit.

[@christophercousins184]

@@audiodead7302 Bingo... He brings the clicks. Even I am guilty of watching him "tap dance" out of a kind of morbid fascination. He's a Gish-gabbler genius and petty and defensive and consistently makes personal attacks (he almost always accuses anyone who disagrees with him of stigmatizing him and he imagines there's a kind of status quo institutional mindset that is "threatened by his work" and somehow keep his theories from being accepted or understood). Whatever... obviously, this guy stick in my craw (I should be grateful he motivates me to keep up my meditation practice!), but you're right, guys like that bring in audience.

[@MrPDTaylor]

This needs an Epic Rap Battle.

[@ripping]

The paywall for the full debate blows. But after listening to the first 5 minutes I was debating if I could handle any more of that baroque background music anyway.

[@kathyorourke9273]

It can’t fail the answers it gets are infinite!

[@GeneralSulla]

I'm not afraid of being wrong, I'm afraid of repeating that wrong on a consistent basis. My parents called that acting foolish.

[@george_smiff]

What a great discussion/debate. I like how all of the guests can agree and disagree on things without letting their emotions take over

[@arkchibald-]

The cleverest person is silent

[@williamjglover]

You can’t call Eric a mathematical Physicist. He hasn’t published anything on the topic since his masters thesis. He’s a spectator at this point.

[@Michael_X313]

He didn't make a soulless offering to our group therefore he's not part!

[@bobbertrobbert4820]

I have no idea why I watched this. Basically nothing they talked about was anything I knew enough about to follow.

[@collinsullivan4834]

BG has to basically deploy child psychology realizing he's dealing with a damaged and fragile ego. I'm so sorry that happened to you Eric, here are the steps you can take to get people to read your theory. I remember a few years ago when Sabine tried to get him to explain his theory or what it's supposed to accomplish he started talking incomprehensibly (his MO) and when she flat out told him I have no idea what you're talking about and it doesn't seem like anyone else does so help us understand, he just went straight for personal attacks and tried to blow up the conservation. These are tactics it's not accidental. I'm convinced a he's a con artist.

[@Blake_47]

I don't know if muchio kaku has put anything up 😂😂😂 Only Roger Penrose on this panel is a serious and decent Physicsict and Mathematician.

[@anastasiawhite7482]

@@Blake_47 Briane green.

[@cleander97]

What I learnt from this debate is the quiet host (I guess that’s who she is) is hot!

[@atoms-to-atoms]

Eric is great to listen to...no strings attached!

[@PhillyHardy]

8:00 this is where peer review comes in to play, if u are a mathematician, and ur friends with a physicist, communicate with each other and recommend certain new theories, and use the typical book hunt approach, I don’t read the whole book and try to expand if it rings true, I read the back cover, or I take a recommendation from a similar minded individual, appears communication has always been a weak point of the leaders in these fields , but it has gotten exponentially worse recently. And in the people who communicate well their basic understanding of math and science has plummeted as well, we all focus far too narrowly and limit our friend groups in and out the lab/office and mostly don’t socialize at all

[@EveK-North]

I think Weinstein is in part upset academia gives String Theory more attention than his baby, the Geometric Unity Theory. I hear him constantly throwing shade at Brian Greene on JRE.

[@jorgeblanco1929]

I really wish more people suggested the idea of redirecting military funds towards academic ends

[@ronking5103]

How do rich people get richer from that? Only society does, and that's not really the goal of miliary expenditure.

[@casey7411]

Most research is Pentagon funded in the US. DoD, DoE, etc.

[@gwills9337]

Almost all of humanity would benefit- which is why it won’t happen. MIC exists to promote a certain…caliber of person

[@ronking5103]

@@gwills9337 Indeed. And it really doesn't have much to do with guns. The people benefitting from it, they have no need for such things. Like most things, it's an ends to a means. Control.

[@das_it_mane]

You truly would need to start to get away from capitalism for this to become reality

[@EveK-North]

Eric’s point essentially is: “why aren’t more people reading my theory on Geometric Unity!? 😭” Eric reminds me of that scene where Jan brady says, “Marsha Marsha Marsha!” “string theory, string theory, STRING THEORY!” Sure, Eric.

[@BewilderedAsshat]

Sure man , just take the worst faith interpretation of the entirety of the 10 minutes of what he said, how expertly disengenious of you. He in fact said he wishes more time was spent investing into researching other theories then just simply string theory with the same vigor, but since they are not financially or economically incentivized to do so, they never will. Continue to cope about string theory.

[@siinxx7656]

@@BewilderedAsshat the size of the straw man that guy made could beat freaking godzilla just by stomping on it

[@EveK-North]

@@BewilderedAsshat I don’t particularly care for String Theory or Eric’s pet GU theory. But at this point, Eric has plenty of money if he wants to fund his research or big enough platform to draw attention to his research. Rather than advocating for his, he likes to knock down other pursuits. He just loves bashing academia and science establishment any chance he gets. That’s his thing now and it has grown him a large audience. I was disappointed with how much he coddled Terrance Howard on JRE and used it to once again take jabs at scientists like Brian Greene, Michio kaku, Neil degrasse Tyson, etc. Terrance Howard is delusional and should be treated with the same respect as a flat earther. He engaged with Howard, but not Timothy Nguyen who has reviewed Eric’s GU theory. Eric refuses to address the paper primarily on the grounds that anonymous authors haven't historically been taken seriously by the physics establishment is hilariously ironic considering his disdain for the evidentiary standards & internal politics of the physics establishment I like some of what Eric says, but he’s largely a fraud who loves to 💩 on academia any chance he gets but runs when a PhD is actually willing to engage with him. He wants to put forward this notion more aren’t looking at alternate theories like his due funding for special elite pursuits. Listen, He found a nice niche, and it’s been profitable to pander that base. Good for him. He’s making money.

[@MetaVita]

No, that's not his point.

[@VipulAnand751]

Why Michio kaku missing from the conversation?

[@lFaizaanl]

Because He and Eric would've been throwing hands at each other

[@markkennedy9767]

He's out of control

[@keep-ukraine-free]

Eric Weinstein sounds extremely frustrated that his attacks get ignored. He's been trying to convince us that his frustration is important. We're not buying it, Eric. If a theory can't yet show empirical data, it says nothing about its validity. Many prior ideas in physics couldn't be experimentally demonstrated - for years. String theory explains a large group of conundrums in physics that nothing else explains. It shouldn't be discarded simply based on frustrations (and unreasonable expectations that it hasn't progressed "fast enough").

[@erichaynes7502]

It does look like we've hit a roadblock, I propose we build a "Unified Field Theory Laboratory" where prominent theorists from around the world meet/work/live so all the major theory's can be proposed, reviewed, tested, displayed, discussed, etc. This will not only be for the prominent theorists but also for the up and coming PhD's in fundamental/mathematical/quantum/theoretical physics. Included should be a large auditorium where the public can be engaged as well. UFTL!

[@TheVicar]

Fight off arena!