Is The Age Of HEARING The Guitar Solo Dying?

[@randyprice6445]

Tim, you're right! I've noticed this as well. Time will tell.

[@angrybird9950]

I run my Kemper both direct in and through a guitar speaker cabinet on stage. Sometimes I’ll adjust the volume coming out of the speaker cabinet if friends in the crowd say I’m getting buried in the mix. But that way I get the best of both worlds.

[@mrelmoresmusiclab]

So funny this popped up in my feed, my brother. Was thinking of doing a video similar to this topic. Just the other day, I was thinking about how the guitar solo is dead. Honestly, who is the solo for? Is it for the Artist or for the crowd. In my mind, if I play the right parts for the song, no solo will ever be needed. and of course, sometimes solos are fun, but I wouldn’t think of them as something as necessary. I always try to serve the song first and foremost. Keep on crushing it, my man.

[@kevincz99]

I've been direct for 3 or 4 years now. Fought it at first but now it feels normal. Done the Kemper thing, Helix, UA's etc. I've learned to just do my job and trust FOH is doing their job well also.

[@philborland2003]

My thought is the in-ear monitors are part of the problem. Stage wedges for vocals and guitars going through small amps seemed to help a balance a band on stage, especially when the players know when to step up and when to fall back in line.

[@toddnash1322]

Love playing through my fender tube amp. No sound like it. I definitely appreciate all the teaching those. Please keep them coming.

[@TimAvenMusic]

I agree, more to come!

[@curtisb.8354]

Just played a gig on Sunday. Ran through pedal to the board, no amp. Depending on who's running the board and if you can control your volume. But yes, at times, it's hard to get that cool punchy tone that you would have by using an amp.

[@davidradlin5955]

Sadly, many players have scooped mids and no cut… so you can’t hear the guitar, solo or otherwise, as you’ve identified. But that is a people issue, not necessarily a modeler/profiler issue. Players more and more don’t have experience with the real amps being modeled/profiled, so no surprise the tones they generate don’t cut like the real deal. Dialing in one’s tones on a modeller need be done through a PA at gig volume levels, and best to have a serious reference amp in the mix. Tones can’t be dialed in reliably with headphones. Amp-like mids are the most challenging to dial in the digital realm, so modellers/profilers don’t get a free pass. I gig a Kemper, using profiles generated from my actual amps, and I can use an amp or it’s Kemper profile without a lesser experience… and using IEMs renders an amp on stage as irrelevant. ✌🏻 Edit to add: a solo boost button configured on ones device ensures their solo cuts… can even boost mids to cut better in a solo.

[@officialWWM]

Yep, you need to dial in those tones with the band. I have spent countless hours tweaking tones in my studio, thinking I’ve nailed the perfect sound, only to get with my band and realising it sounds like crap 😂

[@tyronegulle9664]

Former musician here, gigged for 12 years (2 years classical duo/10 years showband) until I burned out. In case I decide to come back, my setup will still be with an amp. Nothing wrong with modellers/multifx/cabsims. But my mindset is: if your electronic gadgets suddenly don’t work and you don’t have an amp, you’re screwed. So its amp for me, then cabsim as backup. Easier to mix amps, unless you’re a newbie and dont know how to mix your amp from venue to venue😉

[@jonathankraft6650]

I was having issues with this when going direct, when it would come time to solo Id hit my boost and the solo still wouldn't cut through, put my boost after my amp pedal (UAFX lion) and the pa so it amplified the actual amp going to the speakers and it made a world of difference. my boost was all the way cranked before and still wouldn't cut through and when I moved it to after the amp at around 4/10 level it was almost too loud. Would recommend trying it if you're having an issue

[@natewrightguitar]

You can put a mid boost or volume boost in your patch just like you would a regular pedal board set up with an amp. Most of the dudes I’ve seen on Broadway using modeling do this. The only time I see guitar players using modelers and not cutting through during solos are actually the people running their own sound who generally sound more amateur anyway, dudes just starting out with them, or guys who have only ever used modeling and aren’t familiar with setting up a modeler for live use.

[@yunak9665]

Spot on. It sounds like Tim is just going to clubs that don't know how to mix the modeler and/or seeing players that don't understand how to adjust leads for the mixing situation for their modeler. It's not new at this point and players from indie bands to cover bands have figured it out because it's not rocket science. There are so, so many videos on KZbin on how push the mids for Helix, Kemper, QC, etc. As for not hearing sound on the stage, again, most folks run at least a small cab for the crowd up front but rely on their in-ears and get by just fine.

[@lornebaron2265]

Hey Tim, great topic. I experience the same thing when listening to bands in the bars and clubs. The modellers just don't seem to sit right in the mix to me and especially for solos. It's great tone until everyone else starts playing and then gets lost. I don't know if it is EQ, processing or what, but it seems to lose definition or separation from the other instruments.

[@Inner_Release]

I loved the sound on stage when everyone played to the volume of the monitors, it gave you something you could feel to play to and enjoy. Sadly those days are long gone & although I somewhat miss playing live, I wouldn't like to play under the conditions of today.

[@TimAvenMusic]

I agree, the sound on stage is important to me!

[@jamesleigh900]

I agree with this guys comment I gig with an Ax8 and you just have to keep in mind that you gotta get the mids out there

[@Justinlmd]

I’m direct in (Axe fx 3) and not only have a boost switch (overall db and mods) but also frequently use an entirely different amp model and IR for solos to ensure it cuts how I want.

[@TimAvenMusic]

This is a good tip for people new to going direct, thank you!

[@morrisdavis9231]

Thanks Tim. Your right keep it real 💯

[@TimAvenMusic]

Thanks for watching!

[@torydutton9148]

Tim, I hope you’re doing well. I worked on that stuff we went over Friday, all weekend and already made a bunch of progress! Anyway, I use a Helix and I put a volume block at the end of my signal chain and connect it to the expression pedal. That lets me increase my volume with my pedal. It’s totally adjustable. This helps when I’m playing with a bunch of people. If I get on that pedal all the way, no doubt, I’m gonna be heard. Haha. I can go from barely hearing myself in the mix to standing out big-time.

[@cwness4587]

Your luck is high getting to be in the band and not doing the sideman and just making money for the star and basically doing the same amount of work. The front of house guy works for the venue and they want a low volume. The last band I was in I used my Kemper the other guitar player still used an amp. In that band we played for a party organizer. We had our own FOH (front of house). Still making profiles of my amps so I get sounds I want. Lately I been using Synergy and really like it. At 67 I'm taking it easy. Have a good one. CW

[@ccthree329]

If smaller time running sound from the stage a little EQ set even with just a mid boost works as a great volume switch. Run it directly to the insert on the board for that individual channel, not connected to the modlerr, processor or whatever. Wish they could invent a modler or processer that you can roll off the volume knob like with a tube amp to go from crunch to cleaner and still have good tone.

[@TimAvenMusic]

This is good info I'm sure for anyone running this type of set up!

[@jameswhite5806]

Using a Two Notes CaptorX and sending a stereo signal to the FOH. Running a 10 watt Carr Super Bee and it sounds awesome. That said I have had this happen on many gigs before we had a FOH engineer. Having somebody pushing up the faders on my solos helps a bunch.

[@TimAvenMusic]

I agree, I'm sure it sounds great!

[@terrylharris2802]

As lead guitar player in the Andi Jo Taylor band, we are running Into a few places that frown on amps. I have Amps for all occasions I call it, lol! I can attenuate the sound , go real loud or just sit in the middle depending on the venue. We are full in amp guys tho for sure, lol!

[@thefrogriot]

Even though I am stunned by how good the amp sims have become…stunned!!!!! For me personally, I love my LesPaul into my 64 Bassman or my 57-twin reissue. And I have a AC15 for weddings..i don’t know..something about the air moving…I gotta have it… I cant deny the guy with the Kemper has a much easier load out..LOL great vid, and topic!!!

[@alpearce]

Hi, I went to a small local venue where the Bass was direct, Keys direct, awesome Guitarist direct and everyone on stage had IEM's (no wedges) with acoustic drums. The dance floor was right in front of the stage and FOH was pushed out to the sides of the stage/dance floor. I went out to shake a leg and all I could hear was drums, a huge Dead Space in front of the band where normally I would have heard amps and wedges, it really sucked! Volume and mix will always be an issue, I'm an amp person so for me it’s baffles, lower wattage amps, and discipline, I just have trouble with the last one! (lol)

[@dconleygtr]

The struggle is real. I have been running direct via a Helix for over 5 years now. My solo boost not only adds 4db of volume, but also kicks in an EQ to goose the upper mids to help cut through. Not perfect, but it helps as we either run our own sound, or like you said, the sound person is MIA...

[@TimAvenMusic]

I know that is a struggle, but I also appreciate the convenience it provides players!

[@drewcaster]

This is why I ditched Helix and HX stomp rigs. The acoustics of the room really matter to where you need to dial in eq differently sometimes. A packed bar and an outdoor venue are polar opposites. It's also really hard to volume match with unity on patches once you're in a band mix.

[@bobgertz2705]

Its my #1 problem.....I use an axe 3....I also use an expression pedal to turn on a rat type pedal for my solos....But if i dont have it set exactly at the right bumped up volume....it doesnt cut thru......

[@TimAvenMusic]

At least you're doing something to fight it!

[@officialWWM]

All my solo tones have a 3db boost on em. The problem happens when you go direct to the board and the engineer puts a compressor on your guitar channel. You go louder and the desk squashes your sound whenever you go louder. You gotta check that stuff.

[@TimAvenMusic]

At least you're trying to up it, I know every situation is different.

[@officialWWM]

@@TimAvenMusic yes, sure is! That’s one of the things I love about playing live, you never know what’s gonna happen :)

[@teddyvarin5534]

This is a fantastic hot take

[@TimAvenMusic]

Haha thank you!

[@bks252]

I can say I absolutely do not like the direct in method. I like having my amp and I like having it on stage. A year or so ago I was looking for a new church and ended up in one of these big churches and started playing on the worship team. We used amps but they were off stage in isolation boxes. The stage was silent. The drums were in a plexiglass box so you couldn’t even hear them. I did not like that approach either. I was afraid to turn up or down the volume of my guitar because it could mess up the FOH. I like in ears fine but I still want the stage noise. Sometimes it’s nice to pull one in ear out even a little to get the live music feel. I guess I’m too old to change. Now in my band, only the bass player runs direct in but he uses a speaker also. I guess we can all like and do different things.

[@kevinballard1004]

Totally hear you Tim ,sometimes just the air moving behind you the way the sound cuts thru the air just doesn’t feel or sound same , keep using your amp live , tone comes the speakers too

[@TimAvenMusic]

I agree with this!

[@darandeyoe]

I still use a hotrod deluxe for Barbwire. For boost, I use a Boss GE-7 with a little bump on the mid frequencies and slight bump on the output. We do have a dedicated sound guy too. Definitely play to the band, there's times to shine and step up on our light box and then when it's the steel player or keyboard players time, step back and play lightly. Dinamics is so important.

[@lornebaron2265]

The GE-7 is the best pedal on my board. Those mid boosts are magic for sitting properly in the mix and the output control is badass.

[@marcreno893]

Recently picked up an EVH 50 watt 6l6.. I briefly thought about a kemper or a helix but decided I don’t have the time or patience to mess around with tones the rest of my life.. just plug in and play 🤘 🎸

[@TimAvenMusic]

I agree! I am a plug and play type of guy, I don't like twisting knobs.

[@lynnglidewell7367]

It is an interesting topic. Sometimes I would expect some player just sees the opportunity not to have to haul a heavy Tube Amp with a boost from the van to the stage and back again. Even if you have a hand truck it can still be demanding. Perhaps having issues with their back. Of course that doesn't account for the high numbers of them doing it you point out Tim. Maybe the venue owner doesn't want peoples table conversations to be drown out so they want a lid on the amount of decibels inside the establishment. I guess a number of reasons are plausible. Yet I to want to hear a clear separation in the instruments of the band not just one indeterminate rumble. Downtown Broadway in Nashville is a huge money maker when tourists hit town. You've got shoulder to shoulder people out on the sidewalks and as many as fire codes will allow inside. The larger venues the middle class player encounters probably has restrictions too. It's difficult to determine in every case all the reasons direct in vs going through amps first is occuring more and more. I want to hear the solo too!

[@TheArmydiver]

Cant modelers have a mid boost or volume boost setting to help cut through?

[@seanspring1360]

PS. Sometimes guitarists play too F'ing loud on stage...then the sound-man has no choice but to leave him/her out of the mains mix. And of course all the player can hear is their stage sound... That's why one needs a very capable FOH person who can be FULLY trusted! 💙

[@Slashbacca]

I've found for me personally, amps are for bar gigs, modelers are for festival stages/big PA setups Side note: why does Aldean's hire live bands when they make them sound like an mp3 file being played 🥴

[@jamesleigh900]

I think they may be EQing the amp stage on their modeler wrong. A lot of bedroom players find that when they go to jams and plug-in they can’t hear themselves. It’s because they like the bass really beefy and the mids are scooped. The actual opposite of what you need on the stage.

[@TimAvenMusic]

I agree, EQ Is a huge part of it and is very different playing live than in your bedroom.

[@curtisb.8354]

Yo Tim, finally made a live one! At work myself.

[@TimAvenMusic]

Good to see you here!

[@davidharder7512]

Man….I certainly hope not! I think the long jam out solo thing is long gone, by and large. But I not only anticipate the solo, I enjoy the anticipation of the solo. And I think some bite on the tone sounds great in most cases, unless it obviously calls for a clean tone.

[@TimAvenMusic]

I agree with this!

[@jackiegreene8462]

It just boils down to the soundman/Venue that cares about the sound not just selling drinks.. The guitar player can hear him self just fine with IEMs but sound guy must act as a real sound guy. A sound man can make or break a band.

[@TimAvenMusic]

I agree, it really does boil down to them!

[@chrisreed4451]

Most venue's have speakers that are hung. When you are closer to the stage you will almost never hear someone that is plugged straight in. Small to medium sized venues should have real amps on stage.

[@guitardude1981]

They should have some front fill wedges on lip of the stage would help people up front of flown mains

[@guitardude1981]

They should have some one on wireless guitar go out front and listen. Then setup a boost to either his amp or modeler to step on so he doesn't have to rely on a unreliable foh sound tech.

[@wingnut1623]

The art of dialing in a real amplifier tube or non-tube is it complete lost art for the new guitar players on the scene. Understanding how to balance the guitar and amplifier and using your volume knob on guitar to control inflection and dynamics is a lost art. All the masters in town know how to dial in a 2 point rig. Guitar and amp only. Jack Pearson to Bukovac to Vince Gill, Kenny Greenberg, Ryan and Steve Warner ,ect all masters of how to achieve great tone for Appropriate gig or studio

[@anonymous_friend]

Just saw Coheed and Cambria live, and they all run direct amp modelers, and the mix was terrible. The mids and high mids in the guitars are a muddy mess and could't cut through the mix. I think the trend for touring acts is to take as little gear as possible, and get on to the next city.

[@basiltiffani8850]

IMO, you can get incredible tones from modelers and from tube amps. You can also get terrible tones from either. If there's a problem, it's the users not the gear.

[@TimAvenMusic]

I agree with this as well!

[@jeffhowell5625]

It tough ripping a solo when no one hears it. I play small bars and we do our own sound We probably play too loud 😂

[@TimAvenMusic]

I know that feeling! haha

[@nolatone]

Is going direct killing the guitar solo? As someone who painstakingly designs tube amp circuits to be dynamic, touch sensitive/interactive, and inspiring, I will give you a resounding “yes“.

[@TimAvenMusic]

Haha I agree with you!!

[@fiveightandten]

Modellers have all the lead volume boost in the world. If you can't hear a guitar player out front, the sound guy is to blame, plain and simple.

[@TimAvenMusic]

Sadly I agree, and that leaves a lot of players with no option to fix it.

[@drewpiacine9612]

Solo dying? Shortening to micro burst hooks. Eddie VH et al peaked w exhibitionism / Saga electronic skills. Roy Clark segment same thing. Why do ppl jam up to the front of a stage or pack a bar to see the act? At the most basic human level, what are they trying to 'get as close as possible to ' ? RADIATING ENERGY. It's like putting your face in the hot water of the shower. ; ) HUMAN EMOTIONAL ENERGY + words & beats; admirable string mics skills a pre-requisite.

[@seanspring1360]

Hi Tim. Perhaps the recreation of guitar solos dying, but the whole concept of the instrumental solo is dying/dead. The trend in pop music for many years has been the artist/vocalist singing from front to back on a track, with no place for a solo. Sad. Popular music was SO much more varied, interesting, (and often sophisticated when I was your age. How many radio hits still have solos? Nashville and country is one of the last bastions,... not representative of pop music as a whole. 😥😥

[@curtisb.8354]

@seanspring1360 that's a good point.

[@strato-dave]

too much compression? When I did live streams for a church everyones voice and depending on who was playing the organ it was always different and there wasn't someone there to run the board. when ya start puttin compression on a guitar player it completely removes there dynamics and that really hurts a player. Picking soft... picking hard ...and compression takes that away. But I think the majority of people at a show are partying and don't care.... they want something to sway and dance too. There not listening for great musicians, they want to party.

[@TimAvenMusic]

I agree with all this Dave, and I think you're right the majority of people don't care at all and probably don't even notice, they just want to have fun.

[@alanhaenni]

I'd be if the majority of the audience was interested in hearing solos, you'd hear more of the solos. As long as the audience is indifferent, why should the sound guy give a xxxx?

[@sherrygrymko1780]

If they are getting paid to do a job, they should give a XXXX!

[@alanhaenni]

@@sherrygrymko1780 They are doing their job. If they weren't, the audience would complain, boo, or go somewhere else.

[@curtisb.8354]

Less to carry in, same with harp players.

[@TimAvenMusic]

This is true!

[@Santaheckler]

Some of us are very thankful the audience can’t hear our solos…🤫

[@TimAvenMusic]

Hahah I laughed at this, been there before!!

[@AndyCooper761]

Good topic! I saw two guitar players, in the same band, both using digital (no amps) at a very prestigious London venue - and they both sounded awful. Part of the problem was that their sound patches weren’t matched volume-wise - but also their tone just sounded too processed. No dynamics.

[@Jrs21967]

I have not played live in 20 years, I hate direct!!! Kills the warmth real sound of my amp.

[@benallmark9671]

I agree with ya Tim. Live music is being diluted like everything in society. We deserve what are dumb asses tolerate. Sad but true.

[@jamesleigh900]

I agree with this guys comment I gig with an Ax8 and you just have to keep in mind that you gotta get the mids out there