Is the Chieftain Ascendency Rework a NERF or BUFF? Let's discuss | Path of Exile 3.22

[@JorgenPOE]

For more everything Jorgen and my POE shenanigans and Delve Content: Follow me on twitch.tv @ twitch.tv/jorgen_gaming Follow me on twitter @ twitter.com/Jorgen66979324 Join the Filthy Exile Discord @ discord.com/invite/XABktQHE2x PS: I had to re-upload, I noticed a big error in my first upload and I couldn't let that stay up.

[@marcosdheleno]

the irony is, the old valako would be amazing now because of the new warcry support. being able to gain endurance charges, full heal(if using enduring cry) and apply corrupted blood on everyone around would be an amazing combo for 1 node.

[@Scroapy]

agreed with the take -> nobody uses it, lets be more bold and creative with changes, since there is almost nobody to be upset

[@JorgenPOE]

Exactly. I think it has mad levels of defense now which might make it completely off the chain.

[@TheQoogle]

yeah i wish they went with good + creative tho.

[@marcosdheleno]

@@TheQoogle exactly, being creative and shitting everything is not good. half of the nodes is useless, with some even being worse than just using those points on the minor nodes. 5% chance for example means it will not matter, specially for a RF build which already melts mobs, it will be only partially usefull for strike skills, as aoe is always a problem for most of them(saying most, not all). similarly, the dot res is just less damage for RF builds, as most of them run dual curse to tank boss res to below 0, and dont require the player to stand still for it to work, meaning you will go from 100%-50% for most of the boss fights. then there's the loss of the endurance charge, which while wasnt amazing, it would be this league due to the new warcry support, which would be very interesting for new builds using corrupted blood.

[@erutherford]

@@JorgenPOE From what I can tell the mitigation & recovery nodes that were in the old ascendancy far outstrip the new one as getting max res in lightning & cold didn't matter if you could just damage shift those away anyway ... I do think at low investment the Chieftain looks pretty good though -- Max Ele Res without much investment ; Zero out DoT res before you have all your curse, exposure, scorch gear together ; maybe the non-unique jewel ascendancy will help save passive points so you don't have to wander across the tree ... ; maybe the melee nodes will be good ...

[@erutherford]

With Chieftain I think you're undervaluing the old Tasalio's by a fair bit as it enabled a lot of the builds that were [somewhat] viable on Chieftain -- to the tune of roughly 83% of the builds taking the ascendancy. +100% fire res probably means you can mostly ignore fire gearing on the rest of the tree because you're apt to pick up all the fire you need anyway. With the Regeneration per overcapped fire res that also is quite powerful at league start and could help a lot with early RF or other builds. The 20% Phy damage from hits taken as Fire was important IF you wanted shift all your incoming Phys damage to fire which was a neat trick that I wanted to exploit ... err use this league ; The life recovery rate was also pretty cool as that part of the tree tends to get hit a fair bit anyway and juicing up already good Regen, Leech, or other life recovery mechanics was very useful. The node could be taken and it would yield a lot of [defensive] endgame power.

[@spribush]

Ignite DD was 1000% times better before the nerfs... tons or regen, phys taken as fire, perma endurance charges, covered in ash, leech, dot multi and ignite chance... and now that's all gone. This class is now zdps for spell-based builds. Enemies having 0 resists is worthless since any ignite build could easily get any enemy into negative resists. The only good thing about this new ascendancy is that zerker/jugg can forbidden flesh+flame the max res node.

[@henriqueserra7078]

Def a more nieche Chieftain. TBH, apart from the valakos nodes, it seems it has no identity. Lost too much damage, the phys to fire conversion (Helped caster chieftain) covered in ash, charge generation and the totem nodes (rip Earthbreaker totems). But lets see what we can scrap out of it. Def trying it to see for myself

[@erutherford]

I'm hoping the two "melee" nodes will be good. Short of evil-genius types doing some work on the new ascension I really don't see where damage or recovery is really going to come from [barring meme builds that is]

[@donalddouds6033]

The Guardian with those two new unique temporary summons has my attention as well. I’ve played a Dominating Blow Guardian a few leagues back and it was a blast.

[@Vulgaels]

Problem is that block, onslought, resistance, curse immune, intimidate are gone. Hope is those minions will do something

[@toukoenriaze9870]

​@@Vulgaelscurse immune loss is an oof, you can get intimidate from an abyss jewel, rip onslaught and resistances But as for the block 25% Perma block is better than 50% pindulum block

[@LiliumCruorem]

Yeah the onslaught was one of the charms of my guardian aurabot!

[@Blazh5864]

Modifiers to Fire Resistance also apply to Cold and Lighting Resistances at 50% of their Value. Fire Mastery: Regenerate 1 Life per second for each 1% Uncapped Fire Resistance. The Formless Flame: Armour is increased by Overcapped Fire Resistance Great!

[@erutherford]

That definitely looks like there's plenty of room for those sorts of interactions. The new "max res" mode may open up the design space as well as, if you wanted to be VERY tanky then there were only so many ways you could go. Now getting 90% all ele res looks easily doable so one major component will be taken care of.

[@donalddouds6033]

I’m thinking it will be decent and there can be builds around the changes. I don’t think it will be a good fit for Righteous Fire as many have speculated. Phox already looked at it on his channel and stated that Jugg with its physical mitigation still looks better.

[@JorgenPOE]

I'm maybe thinking glacial hammer, fire conversion with omni and frost breath. Ill theory craft it when patch notes come out

[@donalddouds6033]

Yeah. Patch notes are gonna be key. The War Cry that will do damage has my interest for sure

[@erutherford]

@@donalddouds6033 I agree. Patch notes may save or doom the ascension. I'd love for the updated "attack" nodes to wind up being pretty good and work well for both strikes and slams. I'd also like for my interpretation to other nodes to be just dead wrong -- like if Ramako's sets the BASE resistance to zero instead of the final resistance to zero then that's a must take for Fire DoT Chieftain builds. If Ngamahu's or Hinekora's gets some genius theorycrafting things then maybe those can be useable in specific circumstances.

[@JoeNoMercy]

I hope they changed how taowhas chosen works because it would seem strange to make it a travel node for fist of war if it still doesn't work with fist of war moving forward

[@erutherford]

Ditto. Hopefully they'll do something cool like getting rid of cooldowns entirely and allow slam & strike skills to get good benefit from the pair of "melee" ascendancy nodes.

[@JoeNoMercy]

@@zozihn8047 they changed it but it got worse

[@LinkOmega1]

I used the old Ngamahu’s node all the time, sad to see it go.

[@kutrodassf1851]

I like new chieftain, he is for sure a very good league starter, you can get free 85maxres with just purity and tree=0 div investment. Plus 7 link if you play strike skill, seems legit. I am thinking of league starting a strike chieftain.

[@JorgenPOE]

I might do some theory crafting around this when we get patch notes. I think molten strike would be a safe bet. Or glacial hammer with full fire conversion using cold to fire and frost breath.

[@erutherford]

@@JorgenPOE I really think patch notes & theory crafters will help a ton. I'm hoping that I'm wrong about interactions and theres some hidden gems to find.

[@TheQoogle]

Sadly, for trade leagues, i cant see a single chieftain build that would not be better on a Jugg or Zerker that steals Valako. After the good defensive 4 pointer there is not that much exiting to take. Some cool ideas , like the jewel node , but sadly just to weak as it stands. Give that node " at 200% of their value" and we have something here. If you want to play melee, zerker has 3-4x the dmg compared to chieftains melee nodes, and can get all the defenses chieftain can get eventually. Unless they heavily reworked how Fist of War and tamowha work/interact. ( lower cd , work together etc.) Ramako and Hinekora are both incredibly weak, and i am kinda shocked at how bad they are if you think about it. The totem node is niche, might be good on a new build , with that new mortar totem support ? For ssf leaguestarts i see some more value, the ress nodes get even better, ramako has some value early before you get all your ress shred setup, ngamahu can "simulate" fire cluster jewels for extra % dmg until you have acces to fire clusters... etc. I might league start a ssf strike chieftain even , but overall its not a good class imo.

[@psykedude]

The forbidden jewels are gonna be expensive as fuck though. I think chieftain will become a good beginner friendly ascendancy. Get life, armour, max res, boom, you bow have the defences to survive and learn the game. As you said it's a good ssf league start as well for the same reasons

[@TheQoogle]

@@psykedude yeah it's gonna be comfy to start, by red tier maps you will run out of DMG scaling tho , and it will feel worse and worse. I really hope they buff this rework a bit.

[@edwardfabianrodas2398]

Thank you so much!!! it seems that there is potential to think out of the box with these nodes, but you are right, we need to wait till the patchnotes!

[@handsomeben9504]

Playing D4 has really made me realize how much I miss slams in POE, so the idea of Slams being good again has me pretty excited. I always end up in Delve though, so not sure how well they'll do in that content. Losing the recovery the ascendancy had is a bit lame and probably hurts its viability in that content. Hoping the patch notes bring more slam buffs.

[@JorgenPOE]

It's ability to easily hit 85 all res gives it a huge advantage in delve now. With brass done it'll be completely op... Maybe 🙂

[@Saiperia]

chieftain looks underwhelming unless they buffed the extra slam guy. also i se no synergie in the adcendancy probabably play jugg and get the resistence one with jewel or go chieftain for some niche resist stacking build with the weapon from exarch.

[@rednab2001]

Will Henokora, Death's Fury work off totem kills? If so, this makes things really interesting. I was thinking of going with either Holy Flame Totem or Purifying Flame Totem. Pairing that with Torchoak Step Antique Greaves, which makes the totems reflect 100% of their maximum life as fire damage to nearby enemies. These boots come with 25% increased Totem life. From my understanding, a level 20 totem gem with few totem life nodes on the tree should get you to around 20K totem life. With the boots, that goes to 25K. Add the new Flamewood support, which will shoot a mortar when a totem is hit that does area fire damage. Will be interesting to see the numbers on Flamewood. The Moon's Prescence ascendancy node will give you four seconds of taunt, which means you should have a great defensive layer just by spamming new totems. Death's Fury ascendancy node, if it works with totem kills, could send this idea over the top with really good clear.

[@JorgenPOE]

you might find deaths fury won't work as it hasn;t in the past, but still could be a viable build option

[@marcosdheleno]

ramako is downright negative damage, rf builds run enemy res below the ground, you can even get as low as negative 100% res if you go all in. and with using both flamability and elemental weakness you can already put mobs AND BOSSES at below 0% fire res. so not only will you do less damage, you will also need to be standing still, which is a MASSIVE nono in PoE. it also means its useless for mapping, as you wont stand still, remember this isnt, a "if you stood still recently" it NEED you to be standing for the effect to work. this is beyond useless, and in many cases will get you killed without you being able to actually getting anything usefull from it. it might only be usefull for early leveling, and even then every single other node will be more usable than this one.

[@irdave2537]

I like your take on waiting for the full patch notes before fully judging. I'm not a fan of removing the phys damage reduction from taslio, that was so strong. But from an offensive perspective like you say we have to wait and see if they are making any other changes to the way the skills that might get used here are changed.

[@Vulgaels]

Wondering if that ignite note/fire damafe over time will work with totems as they are immobile

[@batsavage]

People don't relize that no fire rez angains doesn't mean set to 0. it means minus all the positive and you can stac that with exposure and flammability. your essentially getting 50 % exposure when your standing still plus all your other exposure and curses. OP for ea totems as your standing still when your placing them. might be also that the totmes are standing still so your getting the buff always but we won't know until it the new league is out. Personally i will be playing ea balistas with this as i think its OP

[@dt5oap]

we bout to do vall EQ with Doryani's Touch, just walk and punch

[@JorgenPOE]

I've got a tree I'm going to test on steam in about an hour or so for slams... Sunder specifically

[@dt5oap]

@@JorgenPOE dang I work shortly, but ill be sure to check it out later

[@Cilanad]

Few years ago i played chieftain incinerate cwc volatile dead on a hardcore race. It was really fun build. Might be interesting to league start with an other build, will wait to see the patch note.

[@aarongates21]

Would General's Cry trigger Tawhoa's Mirage Chieftain?

[@JorgenPOE]

I don't think it does, no.

[@greekttv3003]

This ascendancy went from mediocre to the only time i would only use it for Forbidden Flame and Flesh. Explode is unreliable, standing still never happens and is a dps loss in most builds. And it killed the small niches it had

[@rubikmonat6589]

You couldn't call this either a nerf or a buff, it's a whole new identity to the chieftain name. Will be interesting to see what people do with it.

[@egyrt8340]

Well that's not rly about being nerf or not. Chieftan was somewhat usable but rly bad ascendancy, they rework it to the absolute worst one. That's just so dumb. And it's not even about nodes themselves but about their order to get max res u have to take res node as a chieftan (and it's only 50% of fire res, this node is only good for arm stacker with armour increased by fire res armour mod, which is so niche) And anc call/fist node to get as a chieftan u have to take absolutely useless tawhoa skill. And if i want both i can't take questionable explosions as a chieftan. That's main issue chieftan is not an ascendacy it's just pack of interesting forb flame/flesh jewels.

[@erutherford]

I guess I'll be the debbie-downer here but I don't see the love for some of the nodes .... Moon's Presence does make your totems tankier but the recoup is meaningless as with changes a year or two ago totem life got reduced by something like 80% -- which means if a totem gets oneshot you recoup just 200 or so HPs ... -- honestly I'd rather leech 2% of all damage the totems do. The Flames Advance ascendancy just gives you additional "increased fire damage" but playing a fire build with Chieftain [or RF Jugg or whatever] you don't need additional access to increased fire damage -- you need ways to get "MORE" damage. Sun's Light looks like it NERFS your fire DoT damage against most [pinnacle] bosses as your curse + exposure + scorch by roughly 50%. [Flammability + Ele Weakness + Exposure + Scorch]. Death's Fury might be interesting in some type of ignite prolif but the 5% chance means that you can easily go 40+ creatures killed before the skill triggers again. In mapping 5% is close to worthless for clear -- when [pinnacle] bossing most bosses don't bring along minions so once again I don't see the use case for the skill.

[@TheSaival]

thats true, totems take reduced damage now because high hp explode totems were a "problem". The node is worthless!

[@erutherford]

​@@TheSaival I think the totems got a buff but, to be honest, I still don't count that as "reliable" recovery as something has to be hitting the totems to get them to trigger. Maybe this node + multiple decoy totems [or many other totem types] would work better in hardcore -- if a totem-main really needed recovery outside of basic regen then this would be something -- maybe??

[@GorgeousFortress]

I couldn't see how this is a buff to any totem build or str stacker. Loosing out on buffs and more importantly % str is going to oush any of those builds into heiro or inquisitor

[@JorgenPOE]

The defense is the buff, I just theory crafted a DD chieftain; very much a super good delver with the resistance changes

[@GorgeousFortress]

@@JorgenPOE I can see the defensive side for sure. Just not sure about it offensively, feels like zerker is still probably better for slams and jugg for RF. Gotta wait for the patch notes form sure, I'm guessing some slam buffs.

[@marcosdheleno]

@@JorgenPOE but jugg already can get 90% full cap on all ele res, so can many templar builds. this make it easier, sure, but its not mind blowing by any stretch.

[@erutherford]

@@JorgenPOE Out of curiosity what DPS did you get, what kind of recovery, and what kind of mitigation did you wind up at?? I'd LOVE to be proven wrong about my reading of how good / bad the nodes are.

[@jurybounackoff3025]

4 points for melding..2 points for -50 Res on bosses.. which is: 40% more damage for RF..= useless ascendency

[@erutherford]

Well the -50 Res on [pinnacle] bosses doesn't appear to be against their BASE resistance but the final resistance number ... which means that we'd be looking at a 50% [or likely more] damage NERF as opposed to something useful. RF Jugg can get to 90% fire, 87% other ele, 79% [higher] Chaos res, tons more phys mitigation, VASTLY better recovery ... So yeah I'd say it's useless compared to the better RF ascendancy ...

[@Scroapy]

well what if they change/buff tawhoa? It might be one of the few playable melee ascendancies. If you think in a way "NO RF - BAD", well nobody cares and go play jugg

[@jurybounackoff3025]

@@Scroapy jugg is a 4-th best ascendancy for RF)) tawhoa has nothing to do with neither anc call nor fist of war..so you have useless points. And what else? Melding? ..there is perfect melee ascendency - it is called Berserk)

[@williamwhite8667]

The jewel and no fire res while standing still is either gonna be very strong or weak. If the jewel allows you to triple dip on increased elemental damage it will be so strong.

[@marcosdheleno]

righteous fire already run with dual curse to dump enemy res below 0. the no res node is literaly losing damage to those builds. also, you being standing still, near a boss will get you killed.

[@erutherford]

​@@marcosdheleno It depends -- with my take for "mapping" you don't generally want to be standing still as you want to just shield charge through most trash. For boss-level creatures an RF Jugg can sit there and laugh as the build is designed to be [mostly] stationary against bosses that can't hurt you short of using their "telegraphed" moves -- This allows you to throw your fire traps and hopefully get the boss knocked out. ... Personally I do prefer curse + exposure + scorch for obvious enough reasons :)

[@williamwhite8667]

The no resistance has me hoping it sets the monster resistance at Zero and the curses will apply cause it does say no resistance and not ignore resistance like the Inquisitor. I agree. If it works like the Inquisitor then there is no point in taking it

[@AscendantExile]

Ramako, Sun's Light is either amazing or garbage for rf because to me it sounds like it locks monsters fire resistance at 0 no matter how much they have. With scorch and flammability your looking at up to -74% fire resistance on monsters and that can go even further with more investment in double curse for elemental weakness, etc. so if Ramako just sets monsters fire resistance to 0 then your losing out on huge damage from all that lost negative fire resistance from our various debuffs. But if Ramako just brings mosnters fire resistance down to 0 while stationary and still allows debuffs to push it down further then itd be very valuable.

[@marcosdheleno]

most RF builds will run with dual curse to tank boss res into the negatives. its not even that hard. and not only will this node cancel that, it wil require them to stand still around them. making it very dangerous. so most rf will not use it anyways. similarly, its also completely useless for mapping, as you never stand still. and remember, its not a "recently"effect, you need to stand still for it to work.

[@erutherford]

@@marcosdheleno I wouldn't mind running Chieftain RF at league start too much. Getting easy & early max Ele res would be nice ... Granted after the first two ascendancy nodes what the heck would I choose ... LOL -- Here's hoping that Ramako's resets the BASE resistance and not the enemy's final resistance to 0.

[@TheTerspet]

nice to finaly see someone with a similar mindset about chieftain to me xD defensive wise (i pobed it already) by only stacking fire res and getting purity of fire you cap out all your res and they are max aswell, you litteraly have all the free suffixes you ever wanted (can boost dps ) and the 7 link is great because that again for strike skills atleast, frees up passive tree points to spend on more dmg or def , the 5% explo however, i only see it working for something that already spreads big, on bosses its effectivly useless, the jewel note can be powerfull if it lets you trippledip into clusters, so in my opinion only the res and tukohama branches are realy good in my opinion rest is kind of meh, maybe as you mentioned with RF , adds lots of qol but not realy damage on a build that already struggles for dmg so not sure on that, i myself working on a infernal blow build atm wich frankly sucks atm xD

[@erutherford]

I think for league start, a little later with SSF, and even later in Ruthless the new Chieftain will provide a lot of value. As soon as you can start throwing lots of divines at a build though [in trade league] the new Chieftain looks vastly less scalable than he used to be. Being able to ignore armour && any ele res on your gear was something else ... getting free leech, easier fire conversion, etc. allowed you to save other gear / passive slots that you could throw at something else. Still not meta but if you were willing to work with the quirks it could turn out OK

[@toukoenriaze9870]

​@@erutherfordwell in ruthless it will be bad because of the 2 ascendancy passives ... You only have 3 points to work with in ruthless so sinking 2 of those 3 into just the resist stuff will be an oof

[@Daruuu-MR_Some_Who]

I'm thinking that new Chieftain can be new simulacrum farmer with detonate dead on lower investment that necro

[@dylanbrandt8152]

Really excited for this new league. This ascendancy looks really cool but I know damn well I’m not ballsy enough to league start with this lol. Probably going to start boneshatter jugg again. What do you plan on league starting?

[@JorgenPOE]

Detonate dead elementalist with black flame. But I might theory craft a gh chieftain for build 2. Keen to see all the new supports to

[@erutherford]

@@JorgenPOE I can't wait to see it. I've really like a lot of your builds in the past so I'm hoping your new builds will also do what's needed.

[@SimpleCookiee]

I think it's going to be crap for RF, but that's just my take

[@adamsanders6935]

TBH, chieftain relied pretty heavily on the phys->fire conversion. its still doable but just harder

[@erutherford]

Agreed. I was going to play my first Phys->fire damage and damage conversion build but a lot of nodes that were going to save me passive points just aren't there after the rework. Would have gotten free leech ; ignore gearing for ALL Ele res; ignore gearing for all armour ; Convenient damage conversion ; etc. Now that's not going to really happen the way I was hoping :(

[@adamsanders6935]

@@erutherford if the resistances are zero wasn’t while stationary, it’d be decent for fire bv early, but with removing the phys->fire conversion you’re going to need a watchers eye with conversion and gloves with conversion to hit 100%

[@marcosdheleno]

the hinekora is such a nothing burger, wow every 20 kills you get a blast of damage to stuff you already overkill! A MAZING. complete waste of a node point, you would get more by using that point into another minor node than you would from this one. 500% mob life looks amazing, but you gotta remember, it will pratically never happen on stuff you need it to, and even it does, it will be against mobs with so much more health, you wont even notice the dmg when it does happen anyways. with something like righteous fire for example, you will be melting everything around you except bosses, you dont need mob damage, you need single target, and you wont get it from this. this feels more useable to something like a strike build as you dont have the aoe to deal with every mob at the same time.

[@erutherford]

Hopefully there's builds that can take advantage of the big [but rare] damage bursts. Maybe something with pack size, additional packs, etc. jumped to the moon? Blight and/or Expedition with one nuclear kaboom could be interesting.

[@marcosdheleno]

@@erutherford the problem is, like i said, its kinda pointless for something like righteous fire or a slam build. its mostly for some single or even small aoe. the chance is just too small to make use. and we know this because there's a node in the tree that does basically this, and its basically unoticeable when it happens. a much better one is the bleeding explosion from gladiator. as that's far easier to make work or even build around. this one? not so much...

[@dIggl3r]

I watched about 8 videos about the Chieftain redo: about half shits on the changes, and half says its positive changes. Makes you wonder who is right, here. 🙃

[@JorgenPOE]

pobb.in/1apkfHMKXz-P - theory crafting now; in replicating the changes to a degree, I think it's a big step up

[@erutherford]

@@JorgenPOE Let us know what you come up with. I'm happy to eat crow if I can learn something in between bites :0

[@kakawett8362]

ngamahu's flame advance has huge dps potential

[@erutherford]

How? Ngamahu's seems (?) to only give you access to additional increased damage. In general most builds didn't need additional increased damage but needed ways to scale the damage. I will admit that depending on the implementation maybe you can save passive points and those passives saved may be the best opportunity to scale damage.

[@TheQoogle]

Sadly not. The node does absolutely nothing, it just gives you the option to spend more passives on mediocre increased damage nodes. Cluster jewels already exist and offer more than just inc DMG. They alone outclass nagmahu completely.

[@cirian6485]

I dont see it. 5% proc chance of the explode is just too little to make it a reliable source of clear speed for an RF build, and Ramako's unless it works entirely different than it reads, is a damage loss on any normal build as 0% fire res is worse than negative fire res.

[@toukoenriaze9870]

Yep the proc chance is too low ... If you wanna test run it now use the 3% one in the fire mastery ... That's how bad it will feel

[@boyinpyjamas]

lol that max res node alone. damn also forbidden stuff with it holy

[@JorgenPOE]

pobb.in/1apkfHMKXz-P tested it, it works as far as i can replicate the defenses right now - it's like running 3 purity's

[@erutherford]

@@JorgenPOE How does it compare to other builds with DPS, recovery, mitigation, ...?? Still looking good?

[@standylixgames7757]

I just want to play an ice crash chieftan build freeze everything on screen

[@JorgenPOE]

Cold to fire 😉

[@standylixgames7757]

@@JorgenPOE right, I'm thinking something like that

[@ragzrag6410]

you're saying you can still play totem builds but we lost alot of damage, penetration, cover in ash just to gain some recoup and extra max resistance, insane. I think entire earthbreaker totem builds are gone from this ascendancy. Also for Ramako node, just use flammability / exposure/ scorch and enemy already has alot of negative res instead of just 0. The 7 link node is nothing as ancestral call isn t really that good of a support gem for melee skills. It only give 10% more and increased damage with 2 extra targets being hit but that's not really important as we have plenty other ways of getting this mod. My expectation is that everybody will be playing jugg or berserker while taking the max res node from forbidden jewels, unless some big brain manages to put the explode node to good use

[@JorgenPOE]

It is not solely a totem class and with the number of people playing chieftain, at this stage, any change is a good change because it was dead last league.

[@ragzrag6410]

@@JorgenPOE yes but the thing is, it was dead not because it sucked itself, but because this class doesn't specialize into anything aside from totem builds. If u want better damage or tank u would go berserker or jugg tbh. Rn the new chieftain's only good thing imo is the max res, and like i said ppl will be taking these on forbidden jewels if they are cheap and common. All the other nodes dont give much power and then ascendancy doesn t have damage anywhere. The only potential i see is if somebody makes use of the explody node on it, or if there is a new support gem thats somehow made for chieftain

[@marcosdheleno]

@@ragzrag6410 exactly. the irony is, the new support gems would work far better with the old ascendancy, look at the new warcry support for example, put it on an enduring cry and you would get topped life instantly every 2 seconds, and would get free life regen to convert into rage with kaom's glove, which would be amazing now because you could also put double corrupt on mobs by using the helmet enchant. add that a infinte power warcry with red banner and you would be corrupting blood as you walk and regen hp, and you could build any melee you want for single target. it would probably make chieftain a better choice for bonesht than jugg. to me, instead of fist of war and ancient call, they should just give lvl 30 melee splash for strikes and lvl 30 pulverise for slams. hell if you want to really make it fun, put that node with melee splash and pulverise instead of tawhoa, and the last node put behead on melee skills, which is basically a weaker headhunter. but more than that, at least give us something diferent to play with, imagine if tawhoa worked like general's cry, creating a trio of mirages that use your melee skill? or if it boosted mirage skills instead?

[@erutherford]

@@JorgenPOE I won't argue that it's basically a dead ascendancy. I still think they could have done better with some of the nodes. Here's to hoping that the "attack" nodes will be useful.

[@erutherford]

@@ragzrag6410 The fire conversion thing was really nice. The thing was to get a lot of the Chieftain builds going even a little bit required noticeable investment that a lot of other classes didn't need. Chieftain was a decent "defensive" class given it's mitigation & recovery. There weren't any really sexy builds though that got a lot of attention :(

[@Taudlitz]

dont really see the RF potential, when playing RF I want to run not stay stationary

[@KaifPape]

How is no resistance a good thing? How is that OP when any decent RF build gets you below 0? You're not even looking at these changes in any depth... Its actually much less damage for any RF end game build. Since you hit a cap of 0 instead of being able to go beyond that.

[@EvanEggnog]

Yeah the challenge here is wording, if it's enemies start at 0 fire res and then you can reduce them below that, it's crazy, but if it just sets their fire res to 0 it's kinda ass. Only upside then would be that you don't need to invest in reducing enemies fire res, and you could invest that elsewhere, but it's a net damage reduction for sure.

[@JorgenPOE]

"Nearby ENEMIES have no fire resistance to damage over time while you are stationary"; means rf or any other skill would have significant effect if you don't move. Not your resistance go to 0. Gotto get your facts right before you throw crap at the wall 😉 Also it doesn't specifically say 0, so exposure will increase damage further to.

[@KaifPape]

Yeah. If that's the case, ie, starting at zero then it's huge! But the wording says has no resistance. That means neither positive nor negative. We will just have to see.

[@JorgenPOE]

@@KaifPape patch notes are out in a couple weeks, so we'll know more then.

[@Idlanir]

​@@KaifPapeGGG is always pretty specific.. the wording isn't "enemies resistances ARE 0" that would be different. I'm positive on thinking that nearby enemies start with no fire res and then you can use curses etc in order to make more damage.

[@tannerleffeler2680]

20% phys DR….nothing really lost here LOL. I mean reaptian is dead after these changes

[@JorgenPOE]

0.4% of the entire player base was playing chieftain by week 8 of the league, so what that one or type variants of the build are a little less viable now with the trade being potentially other builds now being enabled...

[@erutherford]

@@JorgenPOE What builds are enabled that wouldn't be as good or better on other ascendancies?? Other than totems life recovery there's no "recovery" ... The damage nodes can be argued to be either nerfs OR baits to for "additional" damage as opposed to more damage multipliers. The explodie node doesn't have good chaining from what I can tell so investment into ignite prolif [or something similar] looks like it would be needed. Until we see patch notes I think we're looking at trash-tier territory and not anything promising.

[@kazutokirigaya7710]

I am speculating on Fire Boneshatter Chieftain

[@erutherford]

You're a mind reader. I was going to do a "stupid" build that I was going to have fun with. My BoneShatter Chieftain would have had low DPS compared to yours [I'm sure] but the mitigation would have been next level. I still wasn't happy with my recovery during boss "invulnerability phases" but other than that I was super hyped to play and wanted to see what I could do ... I'm less hyped now so I'm waiting for patch notes.

[@lenelie3051]

Prediction: Explode totem will be back in 3.22 as a keystone. Chieften fire conversion rate explode prolif?

[@toukoenriaze9870]

5% explode chance ... That would be abysmal to play

[@lenelie3051]

@@toukoenriaze9870 I am saying they are adding a totem explode keystone on the tree. Likely 100-200% damage, if paired with the chieften would make for a possible build. Dunno how it will look, but I am betting on them adding explode on tree, crucible was the testing ground for new ideas and the damage potential.

[@SushiPajamas101]

Oro's flickerstrike starter for me.

[@marksutherlandjr.2121]

Soon as I saw Chieftan changes. I've been waiting fkr this man's take. He KNOWS Chieftan. When not many other creators play it

[@marcosdheleno]

problem is, his takes are wrong. valako for example would be amazing this league due to the new cry support. ramako is negative damage as RF builds run dual curse to dump enemy res below 0, and dont require you to stand still to be effective. and nobody used tawhoa, it was useless back then, and its still useless now, it also makes no sense to have it with strikes, as strike builds are built with as much attack speed as possible(outside of very few strike builds), so most of the time, you wont get the effect of the mirage, as it has a 2 seconds cooldown, similarly, neither fist of war nor ancient call can benefit from tawhoa either, as its counted as a mirage or a "proc skill". finally, the ramako is completely pointless on RF builds, as they already melt mobs, and suffer from single target damage. even if it was 25% it would still be bad because of how pointless those would be on rf. it would only be usefull for strike skills, as they have problem with AoE. and then there's the other stuff that was taken away from the build like alot of the fire damage, and the fire convert which many people played around to get alot of phys convert to fire taken. i wont lie, the new res nodes are great, but they arent that special, jugg and many templar builds already run around with capped 90% all res without that node. and now chieftain no longer has the insane regen it had nor the endurance charges. as a side note, i still feel like chieftain should get power or frenzy charges generation.

[@erutherford]

@@marcosdheleno While I may be giving the Devs too much credit I would HOPE that they would redesign the buffs from the Ascendancy nodes from the ground up to make sure that Chieftain had at least ONE thing that they could be OK at -- maybe not the best but at least serviceable. While I don't expect to see the final node interacting much with the previous node I am hoping for significant changes so that at least the node buffs in question trigger more frequently [I.E. replace any cooldowns with a % chance to activate, activates after X attacks, or something ...]

[@Erelyn1]

think you kind of glossed over what made some of the old chieftain nodes good (like Tasalio) and didn't really think about what makes the new nodes bad/terrible. And you're blatantly ignoring the problems, like saying Ramako is amazing when it has both a conditional (standing still which you don't wanna usually do in dot builds) and also the fact that a curse+exposure already is more damage than this node, before you consider other res reductions. Also you stated that no one currently plays Tawhoa, and are giving ideas to play it after the rework. Well there's a reason no one plays it and you're just ignoring that (ICD, isn't affected by fist of war which is ironic considering the next node etc) Tukohama is more damage sure but fist of war is not really one of the top choices of links for slams and it's also more damage at the cost of mana cost too which a node that just increased your damage wouldn't do. Also losing both the phys-> fire damage taken and phys->fire conversion for your skills is massive I get trying to be positive about something but I think it's ok to be grounded in reality and be critical before this gets released because as it stands I would rather have old chieftain back

[@JorgenPOE]

Only 0.4 percent played the class last league, if it were so good more people would have played it realistically

[@TheSaival]

Its trash. 0.1% playrate will prove it.

[@milodebruin4821]

Meme conc path ingnite prolif.

[@darrellsongy309]

Everything is a nerf until patch notes come out. Its just the attitude of the gaming community. D4 bad.

[@billodonoghue9781]

it lives......again 🤣

[@JorgenPOE]

Haha yeah, quality control ;)