Is The Flow Hive Dead? The Competition Has Arrived!

Is The Flow Hive Dead? The Competition Has Arrived!
In today’s video, we’re diving into the world of innovative beekeeping with a comprehensive review of the Paradise Smart Beehive - the newest competitor to the popular Flow Hive. If you're passionate about beekeeping or considering starting your own hive, you won't want to miss this!
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[@BlackMountainHoney]

Available HERE: www.modernbeekeeping.co.uk/paradise-honey-beebox-smart-system

[@austerror]

That's not an argument being lazy saying the flow hive you can only extract one at a time, it's false.

[@TerryWheelyabarrabackApiary]

Don't know why you say it's better? Nothing in this video showed me that. They have also stolen a concept from flow hive who spent years of research. The idea behind single spigot's is that you get to taste different pollen honey. They're not all the same as pouring everything in one barrel. They are also not meant for commercial use. They are a hobby Bee kit. Most people that have a flow hive like them. So I don't get your point? Also I personally wouldn't even use a flow hive as I hate all this plastic landfill happening everywhere. And Polystyrene's are the worst. Wood and Bee's perfect match.

[@628DirtRooster]

I'm really interested to see how well they function after a couple of seasons.

[@BlackMountainHoney]

Me too Randy. I'll keep you posted 🍯

[@FrederickDunn]

Hey Randy! :) I spoke with Blue Sky Bee Supply as they are the only U.S. sellers. After the conversation on November 8th, Blue Sky removed the smart system from their online catalog completely. I'm having trouble getting my own questions answered. Looking forward to seeing you in January. I hope Paradise will have a vendor table and I look forward to talking with them.

[@BlackMountainHoney]

it's such a shame that these aren't readily available. Clearly some legal wrangling going on behind the scene :(

[@FrederickDunn]

@@BlackMountainHoney Thank you for the response. How was your harvest with the system? Will you be doing a follow-up video that I can send my viewers to? Thanks so much :)

[@BlackMountainHoney]

@FrederickDunn Oh yes. I'll definitely do a follow up early next year for the system and I'm sure there will be a honey crop this time around :)

[@johnsutton6906]

Be great to see a vid of how you inspect it once the supers are filling up…

[@philaandrew100]

Frames look a bit flimsy, will be interested to see how they stack up against the Flow frames. I am still running my Founding Member Flow frames from 2015....

[@albigensian4655]

The frames are quite sturdy and less likely to come apart than the flow frames, however if you want to pull one out to inspect it more closely the flow frames are easier to pull out and put back, they're in pretty tight i've found, and that's without being propolised by the bees.

[@philaandrew100]

@@albigensian4655 True, the FF's are a bit sensitive to rough handling. Had one that dissasembled itself when I unpacked the box but the good folk at Flowhive sent me a replacement free of charge and told me how to reassemble the offending frame. Can't fault their customer service.

[@FrederickDunn]

Thanks for posting this! I've been receiving several questions about this system recently. So, how did it work out, and do you stand by it? Thank you so much. I find that the company is non-responsive about this system, so anything you can share would be great :)

[@BlackMountainHoney]

Hi Fred. In terms of the overall hive it's just as good the standard paradise hive. A good usable floor and much improved feeder/roof vs the flow hive Unfortunately my bees swarmed in it this year and so I didn't get to test the honey supers but will definitely get them working in it early next year. Bit of a disappointment but first year with plastic supers can sometimes result in early swarming in this type of hive. Hope you are well BTW :)

[@FrederickDunn]

@@BlackMountainHoney Thanks for that information.

[@mattlockhart-i3j]

I don't understand why your so impressed by a rival company doing a rip off the original flow hive. They didn't come up with the idea just changed the process slightly to void copy right. Plus the main advantage you say of 1 harvest point is actually a disadvantage in that you can't separate the different honey flavours and colours that come with the flow hive of harvesting different frames.

[@dickymint4109]

You do realise that the frames can be harvested individually just like with a Flowhive?

[@DreamofaHive]

If it is heavy BEFORE it is being filled will honey how are you expected to inspect your bees?

[@sinisterhipp0]

Interesting question.

[@dickymint4109]

Weetabix? Flowhive has the same issue so you could say it's not an issue? On my Flowhives I sometimes remove some Flowframes before lifting the super. Similar can be done with the Paradise but what we don't yet know how robust these new frames are but that's for Laurence to find out and share to us.

[@michaeldargan3163]

Not interesting, it is ESSENTIAL to check your brood hive at least every few weeks for disease, -eats and bee vitality

[@honeymcdonald9120]

Looks like a total ripoff to me - a copy. I'm not sure I see the gaps needed to keep the bees safe either but camera work didn't show that. I would also NEVER extract more than one frame into one jar - you might as well go back to homogenised extraction, making all honey taste the same -like a supermarket. No competition at all. Team flowhive. I see you are selling them -- someone is biased.

[@jamesmgreen15]

Any follow ups will also be appreciated.

[@LileCremeans]

Absolutely nothing in this video showed me how this is better than the Flow Hive or traditional Langstroth. If anything it looks cheaper than the flow hive knock offs.

[@albigensian4655]

if you want to keep the honey unblended from frame to frame, i'd recommend the flow hive which it's simple to set up an extraction method to do all the frames at once whilst keeping the honey unblended, with the bee box you'd have to wait for each individual frame to drain before moving to the next, second the observation windows on the sides only have a bit of tape holding them in, i removed those tabs on one of mine thinking the bees will soon rip that off, and now i'm hoping the bees will propalise them because atm, every time i remove the observation cover on that hive it's a bit tricky, since they will drop out, the windows on the flow however are screwed in.

[@dickymint4109]

@@albigensian4655 But you can harvest just a single frame with the Paradise version !!!

[@mikieemiike3979]

​@@albigensian4655How do you deal with this system during the winter (The honey gumming, queen not having open comb spaces etc.)?

[@raterus]

Curious, did you buy in this yourself, or did they send you the stuff for free to try and give an honest opinion?

[@JyeDaRos]

Its all supplied, this is clearly an ad

[@alancooney6382]

Hello, Alan from Australia here. So you are saying all honey from all the frames get combined and into a bucket, then you close up the frames and start filling Jars from the bucket? If so then all the different flavours from each frame will be lost as they are all now mixed. I’m not saying it’s an improvement to the flow system it’s just a simplified way to extract honey. But I am interested in your next video on this product and I am also open to different ways to extract.

[@tidymeup]

This is geared more towards a commercial market where you might have many remote apiaries, it will avoid the need to make multiple trips with empty and full supers back and forth. Having said that it will work for smaller scale and hobby beekeepers also.

[@NaturalRawHoneyBees]

You can still extract the honey from individual frames, one at the time to benefit from the different honey in each individual frame

[@dcrosco1458]

YOU really can tell you are getting paid to sell this equipment. NO I dont care about either system. but you are doing a good job brown nosing for the competition of the flow hive.

[@dcrosco1458]

NO I AM NOT A TROLL just a truth teller

[@crashclan9772]

How do you check if all the frames are capped so you don’t get too wet honey

[@sinisterhipp0]

Interesting question.

[@albigensian4655]

the outside frames are capped last and there are viewing windows on the sides of the super, similar to the flow hive but no viewing point at the back to see the ends unlike the flow hive. the smart frames are in quite tight though unlike the flow frames so could be fun getting them out when the bees have glued them down.

[@raterus]

The flow frames (the actual flow frames) will only capture capped honey due to the design. Uncapped honey spills over and the bees put it somewhere else. Honestly the best way to know is to just pop the top and inspect the best frames.

[@CypherAFhhhh]

If it’s that heavy, how do you inspect and treat?

[@livingadamman7994]

Thanks for this, I'm still perplexed how the fine walled plastic cell walls can change position when capped honey is filled that would be some pressure. I guess I'll have to wait till you show the extraction with honey in practice. Cheers

[@swohiobees]

I look forward to your updates on this hive. Always interested in how others are beekeeping.

[@honeybee3317]

What do the bees live on in the summer dearth if the beekeepers take all their Spring honey? At least with Langstroth many supers are on the hive and bees can have plenty of stores.

[@dickymint4109]

They ARE Langstroth hives ;) and like any hive you decide to take or leave honey.

[@Devonhoneyandcandles]

awesome vid, good job Lawrence. That hive looks very cool.... did you forget your mic ☺. look at that nuc with four brood boxes on it... pro!

[@eastsussexbeesandwildlife5801]

Look forward to the updates!😊

[@albigensian4655]

i already have 2 up and running, couldn't wait any longer to see you review them lol, personally i like extracting individual frames on the flow hive keeping the honey frames unblended, a selling point i like to have, trouble with the smart hive is i'd have to wait 3hrs to do each frame rather than 3hrs for all at once with the flow hive, but that's horses for courses, not sure about the viewing windows on the sides though as unlike the flow hive the plastic viewing windows are not screwed in or anything just a bit of tape holding them in when i got mine they drop out easily when i uncover to look, hopefully the bees will glue them in place, definately you'll need a top feeder ashforth ect since although the gabled rooves on the flow hives are horrible, they at least give a bit of room for feeding syrup ect. as for the super frames, omg are they in tight. hard to get out and hard to get back in, and that was just painting a bit of wax on the frames to encourage the bees. on the plus side, yeah should be well insulated, and half the price of a flow, will have to see how they work out before i'd get more, i love the fact there's no wires and the frames are more solid than the flow ones.

[@dickymint4109]

I can't get my head around this (I have two Flowhives so know a bit) how does it take that long to drain one frame in the Paradise system? Less flow?

[@JawandoOokomondo-cb7fm]

Enjoy your brood filled supers Mmmmmmm

[@albigensian4655]

@@JawandoOokomondo-cb7fm only if you don't put in a q excluder lol

[@JawandoOokomondo-cb7fm]

Lol? Typical wannabeekeeper Queen excluders dont exclude laying workers. These fad hives are garbage. Just like your beekeeping skills.

[@JawandoOokomondo-cb7fm]

*Like yer mom

[@ogradus]

Is that ABS or PLA plastic? PLA will warp in the sun. Do bees like plastic the same as wood?

[@carolannmathieson1594]

My son at I visited Paradise honey in Finland. Their motto "more honey, less money" ,constantly lmproving equipment and processes. These smart hives improve productivity and reduce much of the time needed to collect honey from many sites.

[@khaziirsoze5952]

Can you mount this flush in a shed so extracting honey can be done inside and bees stay outside? Plus hive should stay warmer in winter maybe?

[@won2winit]

Certainly looks like a potential future purchase but will wait to see what if any issues there maybe with inspections when its filling up with honey etc One question is how will you know which ones are capped and ready to be extracted so you don't take of any honey above the standard moisture levels leading to it fermenting?

[@BlackMountainHoney]

You can kind of peak down in between the frames to see how capped they are. I had a look in the other day

[@won2winit]

Next question their website states the brood box is an 8 frame but you have managed to add 9 frames, is this due to you using Hoffman self spacing instead of other frames that use the plastic spacers that many only allow 8 ?

[@paulward7104]

Hi Laurence. Did you do a follow up to this video? It have just bought 4 of these and wondered how you found them. Thanks for all you do. Paul

[@97footballplayer]

Using plastics to house your honey, especially when exposed to direct sunlight and heat, is not wise IMO. Who knows how many different chemicals will leach into the honey by the time it is consumed? Who knows the dose exposure of the various chemicals and plasticizers from the plastic you will be exposing you, and others to, in a hive like that? It’s best to minimize exposure to these types of products as best as possible.

[@AndrewAHayes]

Everytime I have seen someone do an extraction from the flow hive they have a leak from the bottom of the frame, I think they were trying to empty too many cells at once!

[@chrishumphreys9363]

Hopeful this is not a daft question...Are the bees still in the super when you extract the honey???? If yes won't they all get covered in honey as it runs down the frames? Or does the honey run out from the middle of the two segments. ?

[@AndreLeandro139]

I am a newbie, and never done it, i believe after tou havest, you extract the honwy, and put the frames back, soo bees can eat all honey left, it will not drip to the bottom frames

[@evonyshaky65]

You appeared to be saying open/closed cells the wrong way around. The cells looked open when you were saying closed.

[@dannysalvador1769]

How would one go about getting one? I went to the website and i cant seem to find the order page.

[@Dogtagnan]

You say the super is heavy even before you start. Obviously it's going to get heavier. So one consideration for less able / older beekeepers is how we cope with inspections, swarm management and pest control. I'd be interested in your take on that. Also storing the thing over winter when you treat the hive with oxalic acid, also sanitising it. Many thanks.

[@neilfrozenoak5438]

No one else going there? I feel I'm letting Ronnie Barker down 😅

[@MountainTopBeekeeping]

Flow hive should have Done this upgrade before Others do. 😅

[@yonicarmel789]

Any chance of them making something compatible with british national hives?

[@NaturalRawHoneyBees]

It is a shame how Flow are threatening to take sellers of Paradise Hive retailers forcing them to stop selling. Paradise should support their retailers who are being threatened with legal action as they are Paradise’s Agents! If Paradise stand by their design being materially different for believe Flow’s design protections are not accurate or so high level are unreasonable - then open to challenge, then they should work with retailers in different countries to stand up against Flow’s anti-competitive actions. I have 2 Flows, however no longer recommend them due to what I believe is unethical business practices to stifle competition by threatening the small retailers and not taking action against the manufacturer- Paradise, who themselves should stand by and support their retailers. Not doing so can also be seen as unethical! Both have there place and should be considered by beekeepers looking for a method to extract direct from the hive. This may well spark a reaction….

[@researcherAmateur]

I think you should be threatened to change your name in plastic honey

[@mrspot234]

If a patent has been infringed, then flow have a right to defend that patent in any way that is legal.. I expect flow only have another 10 years of protection anyway. If Paradise Smart Beehive haven't infringed the flow patents, then I expect that they will be protecting their IP as well, just as flow does. I am sure they won't be embracing Chinese knockoffs any more than flow does.

[@mrspot234]

@notme1345 At first glance it does appear very similar, but the operation is very different (flow hives don't drain through the bottom of the cell) - and I guess that is why the patent was granted to Flow Hive. Still fascinating to see the drawings from 80 years ago. I have often thought that there are not too many really new ideas - and this is another example.

[@researcherAmateur]

There's an old comedy sketch when the guy says: it isn't shit ! Just a dog taking a poop.

[@Funnypooly]

plastic honeycombs for a barbie world :D microplastic honey bon appetit, enjoy!

[@crashclan9772]

So Cool might get one

[@hevchip741]

This sounds good for honey farmers/businesses.

[@exvcator]

It certainly seems like there are some interesting innovations, which is great to see. As for whether Flow hive is dead, they raised almost $17m in crowdfunding, and with that war chest have already made a number of enhancements to their original design. The advocates of Video 2000 and Betamax thought they had better technology, but in the end it was the corporate might of JVC and Sony that won out. Time will tell whether Flow hive is dead, but I’m not betting on it.

[@BaileysBees]

What’s that update on this hive? It’s cheaper than the flow hive but is it better or they are just a sponsor? There is no other videos about this product, and I’m looking to buy it in the spring. Update please.

[@albigensian4655]

i've harvested both my smart bee boxes this year for first time, i call it the trickle hive, recommend leaving it for 24 hrs to harvest fully it's slow as hell, whereas i can do all 7 frames similtaneously on the flow hive whilst keeping the honey frames unblended in approx 3 hrs, also recommend a rubber camping mallet to tap in the rod, it can be pretty stiff at times also a pair of nose pliers in case the rod gets stuck pulling the rod out since there's not much to grip once it's fully in, also recommend marking the rod with a bit of tape before the frames are put into use so you know precisely how far to push it in or you could risk punching a hole in the front end of the poly if not careful. personally i prefer the Flow hive despite the extra cost, i do like the fact the smart hive is poly and i like the frames without the wires, but for ease of harvesting i personally massively prefer the Flow hive. hope that's some help to you.

[@BaileysBees]

@ Thanks for the update. I already bought one so I guess I’ll experience it myself. A few questions; when did you harvest the smart hive? Doesn’t the weather play a role in slow the honey “trickle”? Doesn’t the flow hive have a tilt toward the back so the honey flow is faster?

[@mustrumridcully3853]

Is a 9 frame single brood enough?

[@dickymint4109]

Absolutely if you use 'manage' them accordingly.

[@sinisterhipp0]

Interesting so as you push the rod it opens each column of cells one by one. So it should require less force than flow hive where you twist but open a chunk of cells.

[@tidymeup]

Also if it becomes quite stiff to move you can attach the rod to a drill, turn it slowly while pushing inwards to make life easier.

[@ulaB]

While I do find the rod thing interesting, you can use the flow key in smaller intervals too.

[@sinisterhipp0]

Yes, that’s why I said opens a chunk. But twisting 1inch a time is works but maybe not as slick as poking this rod through.

[@albigensian4655]

i found it a heck of a lot more difficult than the flow hive, had to get a rubber camping mallet to tap the rod in gently and on occasion a pair of nose pliers to get the rod moving again when pulling it out on occasion, also needed to mark the rod with tape to avoid tapping it in too far and damaging the poly at the front of the hive.

[@kamonreynolds]

Looking forward to seeing where this goes!

[@BlackMountainHoney]

Cheers Kamon. I'll keep you posted! 🐝

[@paulward7104]

Just bought 4. Paradise is nice kit. Fits together beautifully. Interested to see how this goes. Personally, I find honey extraction a ballache after the excitement of the first 10 minutes 😁. Would love an update on your experience thought.

[@AshleyMalyon]

Ive got one and ive just put the super on seems good to me

[@patrickmcauley151]

Do you have to wax the honey frames

[@bluelab5019]

Maybe i missed itbon the video, but i don't think you put a price on it?

[@DreamofaHive]

It is £375

[@bluelab5019]

@@DreamofaHive not bad at all. Thanks

[@carmemalencar5583]

Amei ver pena q não sei inglês...

[@marktechsci]

Wait. Can you repeat the closed and open part 200 more times cause it is hard to understand.

[@Krullfath]

Your audio could use some fine tuning

[@splashandbuzz6836]

FlowHive's lawyers will be sharpening their pencils

[@sinisterhipp0]

Numerous differences in approach for the same goal. I think they’ve done a good job to avoiding a letter.

[@dickymint4109]

I'd suggest they already have and failed! Paradise Honey are a big operation and no mugs. This system has been in development for years they will have checked and double checked any possibility of copyright/patent infringements.

[@JawandoOokomondo-cb7fm]

GRbage

[@NaturalRawHoneyBees]

Flow have been known to threaten retailers with legal action in a number of countries, but do not challenge the manufacturer - Paradise themselves as that is likely to mean if they lose once then precedent will be set in a number of other countries. I believe there are too many improvements and new features that Paradise should aim to do a test case against Flow to support their retailers/distributors in a number of countries - they would then benefit by being able to openly market and gain greater share in those markets, as well as encourage innovation.

[@dickymint4109]

@@NaturalRawHoneyBees Flowhive haven't got a leg to stand on against the Paradise system! They're not mugs and have spent years working on this. Their 'claims' for patent doesn't hold up.

[@NaturalRawHoneyBees]

It is a shame how Flow are threatening to take sellers of Paradise Hive retailers to court, forcing them to stop selling. Paradise should support their retailers who are being threatened with legal action as they are Paradise’s Agents! If Paradise stand by their design being materially different for believe Flow’s design protections /patents are not accurate or so high level are unreasonable - then open to challenge, then they should work with retailers in different countries to stand up against Flow’s anti-competitive actions. I have 2 Flows, however no longer recommend them due to what I believe is unethical business practices to stifle competition by threatening the small retailers and not taking action against the manufacturer- Paradise, who themselves should stand by and support their retailers. Not doing so can also be seen as unethical! Both have there place and should be considered by beekeepers looking for a method to extract direct from the hive. This may well spark a reaction….

[@dsherman9438]

I'll hold my judgement until I see if Flow Hives have a true case of patent violation. If they do then Flow has every right to enforce their patent. That's the law.

[@aidanquick3151]

Plastic

[@BigRedNZ1]

Great… more rubbish. And imagine the smoke when you get AFB. I don’t understand this need to avoid honey extraction and replace wax & wood frames with plastic

[@dickymint4109]

And therein lies the problem - with all due respect 'you don't understand' ;)

[@ulaB]

What does AFB have to do with it?

[@aidanquick3151]

​@@ulaBwhen you burn your gear

[@ulaB]

@@aidanquick3151 There are different treatments available depending on your location like Bleach or Gamma Irradiation.

[@brentncindy9023]

It's seems as though nobody has any videos of themselves harvesting honey. That seems odd to me.

[@JawandoOokomondo-cb7fm]

Flow hive needs to be sued into babnrupsy

[@paulward7104]

Hi Laurence. Did you do a follow up to this video? It have just bought 4 of these and wondered how you found them. Thanks for all you do. Paul