Is the new Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL8 still slower than the old S-Works Venge Disc from 2020?

[@nicholastopley7611]

I agree totally, S-Works Venge is the go-to fast bike, real shame they don't make it anymore.

[@RoquetteAttaquer]

Agreed, due to manufacturing disruption during covid 19 most bike manufacturers go to one bike to rule them all 😅 except Trek, Cervelo and Canyon still got their aero bike

[@arthurreyes2632]

Guess who is winning all the races too?

[@marquesreyes3287]

I have both, the SL8 is slightly faster than the Venge on the flat. But, the SL8 climbs faster, also, it's weird how quickly the SL8 gets to speed

[@saphireg8094]

The sl7 was your last chance unfortunately

[@danielmiles3636]

@@marquesreyes3287 i'm seriously thinking of going to the SL8 from the Venge. I think the Venge climbs well for a bike of that weight but good to hear your point on how well it picks up speed as thats an area i'd like to see improved 👍🏻

[@okrakov]

It's 2024 and I just bought a used S-Works 2019 Venge, with original SPEC, I am a small rider (66kg, 164cm) so my size 49 is around 7.4 Kg total (Vittoria Corsa tubeless with 100ml of anti puncture liquids included)...I am so so happy to have this bike, first 2 rides were amazing! The bike is far better than a Trek Madone 2021 I used to own in almost any aspect...and it costed around 3.5K USD only, No Sl7 or SL8 could beat the value Vs. performance as far as what I think, could not agree more on this video which points exactly what I thought when I was searching for more than a year to find the Venge specifically, thank you dear Volker for this video.

[@DVLSENGN]

I have a venge with 6.5kg with pedals garmin lights and bottle cages. If you use the same equipment and integreted carbon bar stem, and the sworks bb30 crankset the venge can become a lightweight built

[@hiho6869]

What mods can you make on the Venge? Can you add more detail? I’d like to update mine.

[@marquesreyes3287]

You must be using a none aero wheelset and speed play to get to 6.5.

[@DVLSENGN]

Bontrager rsl handlebar, speedplay pedals, sworks crankset, light handlebar tape, and some other mods

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

@@DVLSENGNbro give some more details: size of the frame, what wheels EXACTLY, what saddle. What groupset? 6,5 with pedals etc for a VENGE is crazy

[@danielgohcl]

​@@DVLSENGNwith or without FD

[@nockizack3848]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. Been on the market looking for a bike to pair up with my aethos. Got a chance to get a Sworks venge from 2020. This video helps a lot.

[@StephanBechert]

sehr gut hergeleitet Volker. Dank deiner Ausführung hat mein VENGE an Wert für mich gewonnen. wobei mein liebstes Rad das AETHOS ist, weil mir das VENGE viel zu steif auf langen Ausfahren ist.

[@arunabasnayake5258]

I really like the shape of the Venge!

[@volkervoit]

Thanks, I agree. I think it’s a beautifully composed design.

[@tccycling]

“I don’t think from the look of it it’s more aero”. Very scientific.

[@volkervoit]

Where did I say that exactly?

[@tccycling]

@@volkervoit starting at 4:30 - opinion based solely on looks.

[@volkervoit]

@@tccycling not really, that the smaller gap between frame and tire is more aero is 100% the case, everybody will confirm that smaller or no gaps better than a gap :-) the same is valid for the seat post, the shape of the old Venge seatpost is far closer to a NACA profile ad due to that guaranteed more aero, regarding the seat stays I'd say 50/50 they look better from the profile on the venge but they are smaller in the SL8, could be a tie. Of course it would be great to get more accurate data but unless someone is going to buy all bikes and put them into a tunnel we will never know 100%. but thanks for the input, will try to explain better and be more scientific when it comes to these claims.

[@tccycling]

@@volkervoit I actually don't disagree, the Venge "looks" more aero. But I've heard they went with the thinner seat stays and rear end because when you take the rider into account, the aero shapes of the rear of the bike doesn't improve aero properties at all since the air is being churned in that area by the rider's legs. So saving weight was more of a priority on the back end of the bike.

[@volkervoit]

@@tccycling I do understand that theroy but the huge benefit of having discwheels in triathlon goes against that? Same with Trek and their A-hole in the Madone. But would be good to see some actual data comparing it. We should ask @hambini for help. 🙂

[@roypeterka]

I have a Venge and Tarmac SL6, and didn't get an SL7 because it felt much harsher than the SL6. The Venge is a harsh bike that beats you up much more than at least the SL6. Seems like the SL8 added comfort. I don't think there is much room for a Venge right now, but that won't mean it's not in the future.

[@volkervoit]

I recently did a 290km ride on my Venge, 28mm front 30mm back, don’t find it harsh at all, but I’m enjoying my SL6 as well on climbs as a bit more springy when accelerating

[@TheBarts27]

Thanks for the video. I follow your analysis. Mark my words. The new Tarmac SL9 will be a Venge like bike that will be much lighter but will have the same aero forms/shapes and the new optimized Roval one piece handlebar and speed sniffer. Specialized can do this already but they have to hold back (carbon) tech to sell more bikes. The S-works models are for the pro riders because normal bike riders won't benefit from the small gains. The Pro models are a better buy but how cool is it to buy an S-works. Cycling is the only sport were normal people can buy the same equipement as the pro's. I will stick with my SL7 S-works and wait for the SL9. Bottom line: A venge with high carbon wheels, the new Roval one piece Rapide handlebar and rim brakes will be faster on the Alp in your calculation. ;-) On the downhill I prefer a disc bike (for sure in the wet).

[@volkervoit]

Got disc brakes all the way now, yes uphill rim maybe lighter but agree, love descending on disc brakes

[@TheBarts27]

@@volkervoit I still got my S-works SL6 with rim brakes and it still is very fast and light with Sram Red Etap and 50mm high end carbon wheels. A future classic that I won't sell.

[@volkervoit]

Got an SL6 myself, but with disc brakes, loving the bike and easy to travel with because of external cables @@TheBarts27

[@dhirajmasandful]

Brilliant insight, request if you can share your thoughts on weight reduction of SL8, especially when one sees the BB area carbon, conventionally they claimed beefier the BB more power obtained with bare minimum flex. Now they have skimmed the BB more to reduce weight of the frame, would there be a loss of power due to flexing and loss of rigidity. Thanks. I love the venge, i wish specialized too adopts the Cervelo methodology, Climbing bikes = R5, flat roads = S5. Bring back the venge please.

[@RoquetteAttaquer]

I don’t like climbing bike, I’m always like aero bikes, I sold my sagan venge and bought the Canyon Aeroad CFR MVDP (white edition) with Dura Ace. Never regret

[@Eken08YT]

Much helpful shared experiences as I ponder whether to complement my SL6 Pro with a Venge Pro to explore the differences in ride experience or drop the SL6 in favor of a new SL8.

[@euroswilliams7303]

At the time of release the marketing was about how the SL7 was equivalent to the venge for aerodynamics hence the venge was no longer required in the line up. Now they say that the venge was more aero than the SL7.

[@volkervoit]

Not exactly, they always said that the Venge was more aero, if I remember correctly they mentioned 9s over 40km but their claim was that due to lower weight the sl7 was more suitable for more terrains.

[@euroswilliams7303]

@@volkervoit I think it was 8s but that's 2w hence it was claimed they were equivalent

[@inakilrg]

Thanks for this analysis, Volker! One thing to check, though.. at 9:26 you compare the time gain over 40km claimed by Specialized with your calculations related to the new handlebar over a time trial of 45km. Those 14,4secs gained over 45km would just be 12.8 over 40km at that set speed. I still believe you are right in that your bike is faster, specially if you are riding it 😉.

[@volkervoit]

yeah, you are right, there are still quite a few unknowns and assumptions in that calculations, like the 4W saved from the handle bar, there is no info at what speed that was tested for example. So it is more about the principle than the exact numbers but the result should still be the same, Venge with new Rapide Cockpit is faster than SL8 :-)

[@againthebegin]

I can assure you speech is making claims based on NOT using a computer and computer mount ... this would essentially give a fake advantage to bars not using traditional stem. But in the real world, the computer dirties the air at the stem on BOTH bikes so the stem matters not at all on either. So the 4 watts isn’t a real world gain.

[@volkervoit]

@@againthebegin good point

[@cyclingschannel]

Yeah!!The venge is faster for sure!!Even older venge with rim brakes like venge vias!!!

[@Egsgaard10]

Great comparison👌🏻😊But maybe the SL8 will win over the avenge looking at handling…? I have the SL7,and is thinking of changing to the Venge…..😎

[@volkervoit]

Hard to say, the Venge is definitely stiffer than the SL8, I love the direkt and a bit harsh feeling of riding it, guess the SL8 will be a bit more nimble and twitchy but haven’t ridden one. One key thing for me is looks and there the Venge is just another level 🤩

[@Egsgaard10]

@@volkervoit Totally agree

[@mmurmurjohnson2368]

A guy took the SL8 out this weekend and says it climbs like a rocket, which I believe, I've seen guys ascend well on the SL7 too, but if you're really trying to max out on flats and descents, maybe turning big gear sets and not focusing so much on climbs, I'd go with the Venge + new integrated cockpit.

[@volkervoit]

@@mmurmurjohnson2368 i think most normal people will hardly tell big differences between those three when equipped with same cockpit and wheels to be honest, they are all three great bikes with basically the same geometry.

[@aaaahahahahahah4300]

Got the same bike as u. Just wondering if it makes sense to get the one piece cockpit, if you mount a Garmin anyways.

[@volkervoit]

Good question, I think the main gain comes from the reduced thickness of the cockpit, plus even with a Garmin, it will be smoother in the stem area as a one piece. I am considering it, but maybe not the Roval one but another brand.

[@aaaahahahahahah4300]

Makes sense. Can you still install the original Venge TT bar on the one-piece stem?

[@volkervoit]

@@aaaahahahahahah4300 good question, either the same or new one as specialized still does short distance triathlon sponsoring

[@rskng]

You're probably right that the Venge is a tad quicker for the average rider. Especially ones who are not doing 45km/h brakeaways as the Venge tube shapes work better in higher yaw angles. At 45km/h, where the yaw angles are mostly from the front anyways,, I believe the SL8 is a bit faster. I have the venge for three years and now bought the SL8 but not for weight or aero, as they are almost a rounding error difference, but for the handling part. I have tried the Aethos and on decent,s it's just unbelievable. And this is what I'm looking for in the SL8. If I can get the Venge level aero with Aethos level handling I'd be over the moon.

[@nayefserhan4333]

Nice calculations!! Agree expect what if we make the calculations again adding gravity ?? 0.5 KG will make a huge difference going uphill 12-15miles climbing the Pyrenees 😅

[@volkervoit]

Huge? Do the calculations, you’ll be surprised how little effect it is. And don’t forget to do the calculations for going up and going down where the heavier bike is also more aero :)

[@antoinetran900]

A few hundred grams will make little difference! Aero is king at most amateur and especially at pro speeds!

[@driftnasty1]

I have a Venge S-works and the new Sworks SL8, I can confirm the SL8 is much faster than the Venge. I solved this, it's not up for debate.

[@volkervoit]

😂😂😂

[@hiho6869]

😂😂😂 cmon

[@Miriboy]

😂😂😂 oh come on... at least, show us the photo of both bikes.... come on..

[@Miriboy]

I mean.. show us both bikes in 1 photo, side by side..

[@bobfoster687]

Nice analysis. German precision?

[@volkervoit]

I think more Taiwanese precision when it comes to the bikes 🫣😁

[@surffear3737]

I just bought a 2019 venge but newly build up in 21… It’s funny cause I asked the dealer to put the sl8 cockpit on the venge before I found this video. Dealer says he can add the sl8 cockpit but it will not be as nice fit as on the sl8? Is this true?

[@volkervoit]

Don’t know, haven’t seen it in live, not sure why that would be the case 🤔

[@hammerridecycling7630]

can you make a video about elves falath evo.thanks

[@Egsgaard10]

Which size is your Venge?

[@volkervoit]

It’s a 58

[@JorgeSantos-zk6ju]

Good vídeo about the new sl8...but... You cant compare Beneficts of handlebar on a climb

[@volkervoit]

Forgot to mention, the new bar is over 100g lighter, not only more aero, so the new bar will reduce the gap between both bikes, but you are right the aero advantage will be minimal from it on a climb as the speed is quite low

[@BennyOcean]

He said he uses big tires. Which ones?

[@volkervoit]

Schwalbe G-One 30mm - the frame has clearance for 32mm, usually riding Conti Gp5000 sTR but still had those flying around

[@hiho6869]

@@volkervoitwould you ride 28 conti S TR? Or 30?

[@volkervoit]

@@hiho6869 28 front, 30 back

[@hiho6869]

@@volkervoit and why? Just more comfort?

[@volkervoit]

@@hiho6869 yes, comfort and reduced rolling resistance on rougher roads.

[@kentwong3818]

They already addressed why the rear isn’t as aero, it’s because it doesn’t do anything in the real world. Same with big aero foil down tubes. You don’t have wind tunnel data

[@czts4778]

Make sense. Wind tunnel is just a measurement of aerodynamic with out the rider( I think).

[@shreyas1990s]

Its conflicting with what others are doing like for instance, the new madone has a radical new design to optimize airflow around the seatpost as well as a thick seat tube; same with the S5; Aeroad too; you look at any "aero" optimized bike made in the wind tunnel has a thick seat tube. So does that mean that these other companies have been doing it entirely wrong?

[@volkervoit]

If that would be the case then no disc wheel would make sense in track or triathlon but it’s significantly faster, just because the air in the rear is more turbulent doesn’t mean it has no effect to work on aerodynamics in that area.

[@volkervoit]

@@czts4778 good to lok at triathlon where the riders regularly go with bikes in windtunnels and they did a lot of changes in the rear in the past like fairrings at the bottle mount, that as well as the use of disc wheels which is significantly faster than a normal deep wheel shows that even if the air is turbulent after passing riders legs it still is very much beneficial to work with aerodynamics in the rear section of the bike.

[@kentwong3818]

@@shreyas1990s " So does that mean that these other companies have been doing it entirely wrong?" Possibly. I don't have the data myself, but very few companies are willing to show and publish wind tunnel data including rationale. The numerous times a new bicycle comes out (like Canyon) and it's less aero than an older Giant TCR is more than once now. Several "new" bikes have released and they're all less aero than the Giant TCR. How do you explain that? From empirical evidence, some companies are in fact doing it entirely wrong.

[@024hellokitty]

You are right

[@bigwil91]

I just bought the new sl8 bars for my Venge....lets see what happens

[@ZwiftDude]

how did you get on??

[@benjamintreble3805]

Do a comparison with Cervelo S5 and venge.

[@volkervoit]

Last time I was chasing an S5 I had no chance, but that might have also been because of the World Tour Pro that was riding it 😂

[@Adonis-qj1nq]

You should let the pro teams know they doing it all wrong using the lightweight bikes on climbing stages. I mean for only 1w saving as you suggest on the Alpe D’Huez, they would quickly get that back on the descents. By your logic they should only ride on the aero bikes, and yet they don’t. Maybe these calculators just don’t approximate real world conditions all that well.

[@volkervoit]

Not correct, in the pro field the attacks and often finishes happen on climbs, of course a climbing bike is faster. Plus, all I am saying is that the Venge is more aero with a new handle bar than the SL8 and therefore faster on a flat or rolling stage. I don’t say anywhere that it would be superior on a climbing stage. Pro riders are also much lighter and ride faster and therefore the weight impact is higher in the calculator due to the bigger part of the bike weight in total system weight.

[@zaahierstanley955]

They actually had the pros on the Venge , SL7 and in the testing they chose the SL8... So how does one answer that ? So who does one believe ? The pro fighting for a win or the ordinary guy in the street that have not raced at the level of the Pro

[@volkervoit]

1. the SL8 is out of the box the fastest and best race bike that Specialized built, nobody says anything different. 2. „the Pros?“ interesting who tested them? Any proof? Somebody else in the comments said the opposite after pros had the choice between SL7 and SL8 at the worlds last week 3. A bike brand sponsored pro will always say the latest bike is the best because he/she has to

[@zaahierstanley955]

@@volkervoit specialized works on rider feedback. Currently they sponsoring a few pro teams. Those pro riders help give and feed through feedback and help in development and not just get the bike to race and ride. This is very common in Specialized... Those frame have been riden for a while now and when they leaked it a few weeks ago it was already tried and test but a few of the pro team top riders working with specialized. I am really surprised you do not know it ... Specialized never just give the riders the bike and ... This is what you get. From the first tarmac. I am having the SL2 and still riding it today. Just change the wheels from time to time. A super nice frame also ... Remco who is the world TT specialist loves the sl8 and had a personal hand in it's development... Who is a better TT rider than him ? There was a few other riders also ...

[@againthebegin]

I dont believe pros any more than specialized marketing. The first have for decades been swayed by old wives tales and peer pressure. The latter is expert in spin.

[@JamesHsieh0512]

When u can spent less carbon to built a bike and claim its faster. Why go back to old design 😅. Especially a Venge Pro frame are much more cheaper and the profit is lower to the new one 😂. I always say the Venge Pro is the most valuable bike that Specialized ever made.

[@volkervoit]

100% agree, identical frame as the Sworks, great bike

[@onepunchbud1472]

My years old Bianchi Oltre XR4 with rim brakes is way lighter and also quite aero after i changed the handlebar two years ago. I see no reason to change my bike at all. Don't believe the fuzz about gains. Sure, the cockpit is important but imagine spending over 10.000€ to save 4 watts. No thanks. Besides, i like the look of your Venge much more. All new bikes look the same, very boring and as you say - they claim it's aero but thats debatable. Compromise between aero and "light" (at least for disc brake standards). Get a new, tightly fitting aero jersey and you have more improvements than with these new bikes...

[@volkervoit]

Agree, and I had a rim brake Oltre XR2 before with Campa EPS, beautiful bike

[@onepunchbud1472]

@@volkervoit the XR2 is still beautiful imo and Campagnolo has great groupsets / wheels but spend less for marketing that's why we don't see it that often anymore. Sadly.

[@NYCLJ34]

You’re wrong… the SL8 is faster.

[@volkervoit]

Based on what? 😂

[@arthurreyes2632]

Faster than what? The sl7? Probably. The tarmacs are the slowest bikes in the pro peloton. What was the last big race won on tarmac? Last years world championship it nothing since.

[@robertphillips3078]

I own both SL7 S-WORKS & SL8 S-WORKS. The SL8 is faster & a liitle more comfortable. I own ×3 sets of the original 51/60 Aero Wheelsets @ 1400 grams . Obviously set up as clinchers with light TPU Tubes . From all reports the the Venge just beats ur body up after 2hrs . Hate the new 1520 gram tubeless. Wont ever see me purchase them .

[@volkervoit]

Nice bikes, I never understood why people say the ride of the Venge is harsh. I did 10h rides on the Venge up to 350km. Find it so comfy

[@robertphillips3078]

@@volkervoit Obviously u r super young & fit & very fortunate. I personally have not ridden one . A guy l met owned one a few years ago & wanted to sell it 4 $10k b aud . An Ambassador 4 Specialized in the UK has ALL SWORKS, VENGE , SL7 , SL8 & he did a 10 k or 10 minute circuit ( most probably a A Grade ++++ Rider & measured the speeed , comfort & climbing ability of each of them . Venge was fast on the flat . Slower up hill . The SL7 was fast every where. Faster up hill & only slightly slower on the flat . And the SL8 was the fastest every where. Faster up hill . And 4.5ks an hr faster than a SL7 on the flat & faster than the Venge on the flat .. Ex Pro Alex Dowset said the SL8 was the best bike he had ever ridden & also said they were the fastest wheels he had ever ridden.

[@volkervoit]

@@robertphillips3078 well, what would you expect from Alex as a Specilaized sponsored rider to say other than the latest bike is the best, loved his early videos but got too much on the marketing path as well. Super young and fit? 🫣 I am over 40 so not that young anymore. I do think the SL8 is the best current package but I love the way the Venge rides, would never trade it for anything else but as I do have a few other bikes as well (like Sworks SL6 and Shiv) I love to mix it up as well.

[@Mas421]

nerdy content. The tarmac sl 19 will be faster (and more aero, and stiffer, and better, and hotter…..) the tarmac sl19 will rule them all. PS: what about the new iPhone?