Is the West in Decline? C. Miller-Idriss, Y. Varoufakis, and K. Kisin. The 2024 Holberg Debate.

[@JonBjrnarThuJakobsen-tq9xz]

It is alarming to me as a Norwegian that some of these insane woke privilege talking points / arguments are getting the biggest applauds by the audience.

[@lucri988]

You and me both.. I can anly assume its academia people and their ilks. They share the castle in the sky and pretend to know about the world outside. All the while re-inforcing each others narrative no matter how much they miss their mark. They are cultural "intellectuals" after all lol.

[@RihardsDel]

Your country is screwed and that’s a fact. I haven’t spoken with many Norwegians, but the ones I did had a really bad inclination to socialism and a huge push towards some sort of “fairness” in society that is very difficult to measure, let alone implement in real world. As long as the oil is pumping, you are fine. If the tap were to close tomorrow give it a couple of years and those socialist fridges would win over ideology.

[@MartinBergholtz-y1x]

@@RihardsDeloh you’re so wrong 😂 the national oil fund owns basically 1.5 % of all the worlds listed companies, valued at 1.74 trillion dollars (more than half of that is just return on investment - not oil). They’re smart, they invest it all, and it’ll last for generations to come. It’s probably the worlds richest country, and will be so for the foreseeable future

[@silotx]

When you educate yourself you will understand why, you have a long way to go.

[@RihardsDel]

@@MartinBergholtz-y1x once the market has a downturn or the companies they invest in become irrelevant we will see who will be left swimming naked. Domestic demand, industry, innovation and most importantly population size dictates a country’s long term success. Selling oil to a foreign nations, getting money back for it and sending that money back to earn interest in times when monetary supply can be doubled in response to a pandemic let’s say with ease does not sound like a winning long term strategy. But hey ho, keep living the dream. We are all entitled to do whatever we want

[@ShrekThePimp]

Wow. The woman arguing for woke DEI is crazy. Do we want the best qualified person regardless of color or gender.....

[@eriklarsson3188]

Regardless of race or s3x. Gnder? Social construct. 72+ and counting.

[@Detached4547]

she wants more diversity i think, she gets bored of only white men 😂😂😂😂

[@TTFN55]

She isn't a thinker. She's repeating the headlines of an average college newspaper.

[@Detached4547]

@@TTFN55 She purposely wanted dei because she was bored of "white men" in her class. She said that word for word.

[@Dimera09]

2:21:46 " I definitely thought i would dislike you. ... and I don't." Maybe she should examine the rest of her foolish preconceptions.

[@peace-yv4qd]

Whenever someone feels the need to interrupt someone while they are making their points tells me that they're positions are fragile and on shaky ground.

[@willietorben560]

That is a misleading assumption. Sometimes the interrupted person is simply talking sh*t, and/or trying to derail the train of thought. If a person interrupts another person, the only thing you can know for sure is that they think it is important to interrupt, but without external sources to check the supposed facts of either sie one cannot know anything about the motives. BUT that you assume it is as you say talls me that you are a person who is prone to overconfidence in what they believe to be the truth. A person who is not full of themselves would not jump to the conclusion you are jumping to. (Just like "the person who raises their voice in a discussion is wrong" is sometimes, but not generally true - but those who claim it is generally true are almost invariably people who lack the capability to properly distinguish form and content, who favor style over substance, and who thus cannot, in general, be trusted in anything they claim - Dunning-Kruger type of people prone to believing the wildest fairytales as long as they are narrated to them in a stylistically pleasing way! If someone raises their voice, it merely means that they are highly passionate about something, and deeply convinced that they eaere correct; they may or may not be correct, but factual accuracy cannot be measured in decibels to the power of minus one.)

[@peace-yv4qd]

@@willietorben560 I basically disagree with pretty much everything you state. If you have an open mind, you allow the person next to you to make their points, then assuming they have an open mind, are allowed to state your argument without interruption.

[@jasondashney]

@@peace-yv4qd Have you taken temperament into account? Some people, especially if they have ADHD, find it takes an extreme amount of effort to stay quiet when someone is lying to them. Has zero to do with being correct or not. It has zero to do with whether you're confident in your position or have something to hide. It's like how some people can will themselves to take a punch in the face and stay standing, whilst others of the same size and build will fall down and cry. People are wired differently

[@Ljblossom]

The first -speaker- an American mouthpiece for the universities, health agencies, and main stream media…why did you bother? There are surely more thoughtful leftist that you could have had present. I was a lifelong democrat who knows this playbook - it almost hurts my ears to hear her.

[@DependentDeFeeder]

Destiny was not available 😂

[@Ljblossom]

@@DependentDeFeeder funny! I am listening to Yuri and find him tedious. KK is the bright spot.

[@karleells6540]

@@Ljblossom she’s exactly why I stopped voting democrat in 2010. I have been a republican ever since.

[@iosmom]

@@karleells6540 yet she has no notion that she and her ilk are the problem

[@Plax123]

Name a single one. She is a perfect representation of the over-educated coastal "elite" hivemind.

[@user-by5on4cz4r]

I think all the speakers in this debate made many valid and important points on domestic issues. On geopolitics however, it seems to me that Kisin's tragic realism is more grounded in reality than the somewhat utopian idealism of Varoufakis and Miller-Idriss.

[@karleells6540]

@@user-by5on4cz4r amen to common sense on the right

[@waynesomething7379]

It’s utopian to want to better the society in which you live? That is an odd statement to make. If you look at the history of Honduras, how much of it’s current climate is a result of US intervention?

[@karleells6540]

@ don’t mistake corrupt governments with USA interventions

[@TheDb1973]

As a very independent female I know my grounds I can achieve what's needed within my ability as a female but have great respect for what men bring to the table and would never demean men in this Woke virus instilled upon us and allow men to do the necessary things they do naturally x Men protect us and build a world for us to live in without threat as they shield us from harm ! Naturally we need to know our gains from submitting and loss through Egos! Bless you all whom understand my status 🙏

[@ddhqj2023]

Get over yourself.

[@TheDb1973]

@ddhqj2023 haha x there's always one sweetheart 💕

[@ddhqj2023]

@@TheDb1973 And you are it.

[@ddhqj2023]

@@TheDb1973 The energy wasted by your constant fight against the 'woke mind virus' suggests that in your life, the greatest importance lies in finding someone to diminish and exclude. For example, the trans population in any country is roughly .3%. Hardly any and yet your greatest glee comes from depriving them of medical care according to their needs and doctors approvals and excluding them from the same protections afforded blacks, Asians, gays and women (at times). So your pompous pronouncements about yourself purely comes across as ego, ego, ego and fear of others. So..... get over yourself.

[@willietorben560]

@@ddhqj2023 Funny how she needs to emphasize both her "very independent"ness as a "female", and how she depends on "men" to "protect" and "shield" her. Even more funny that she genuinely seems to believe we won't notice that blatant self-contradiction. She is a true Citizen of Oceania. Orwell would have loved to study this splendid specimen of a professional "double-thinker". May all who understand her status find a good therapist they sorely need. Or maybe this can be solved with lorazepam. It's worth a try.

[@Creality.R.Crooks]

After listening to her opinions for a couple of hours, it's obvious why Miller-Idriss is phobic of academic merit.

[@miyojewoltsnasonth2159]

Starts at 2:33 *Edit:* Debate itself begins at 10:20/10:54 following introductory remarks and introductions.

[@PatchesNjose]

Thanks

[@KareliaCrimea]

Does Yanis seriously not KNOW about the islamic slave trade, or why does he call it fake history? I am a little bit shocked.

[@minh141976]

I think he knows. He was either really stupid or pretending to be that stupid.

[@orwellianyoutube8978]

aks him about the jewish slave trade, all slave ships where owned by the tribe one is not allowed to mention

[@mayena]

@orwellianyoutube8978Publish the primary sources then?.

[@davidcrevaux406]

the Atlantic slave trade Humans have a long history of slave trading, often over vast distances, but nothing has rivaled the Atlantic slave trade in size. Between the early 1500s and the 1860s, slave traders forced some 12.5 million men, women, and children aboard transatlantic slave ships on Africa's shores.

[@albal156]

@@davidcrevaux406 Thats the chief difference I think. And the fact we were able to transport them so far as yanis said.

[@ozachar]

The worries about the decline of the West is because of the risk being overwhelmed by the competition. At the same time, the moderator and some of the speakers, argue that the West should volunteer to actively promote the competition to override it both physically with immigrantion and institutionally in international "regulating" bodies. They in effect call for the Western culture to celebrate its own decline, a kind of cheering "worries". This kind of self loathing would be considered a mental disorder of self mutilation at a personal level and it is so at the cultural level too.

[@jon123xyz]

Your comment reminds me.of C Hitchens telling an audience something like, this is masochism being fed to you by saddists.

[@dectseven]

Well these are the same people who fully support physical mutilation of children so...

[@Rn-pp9et]

"The worries about the decline of the West is because of the risk being overwhelmed by the competition." I think the worrying is that we, 'ourselves' are putting in the stick in the spokes so to speak with our absolutely daffy ideas, largely espoused by Communist Leftism. I think Kisin is spot on, which is why the West is currently going through a political populist period.

[@hamidhamidi3134]

But which west ? It's the US which has the Money, the military might, the geography and population vibrancy. Europe doesn't have the population vibrancy or the cohesion or the military might or the geography shielded from big powers. It even doesn't have the ability to provide for its own security. I don't see much of anything in Romania or Slovakia or Bulgaria etc.

[@C1oudS-Gaming777]

Her are some facts. Germany is third in the world in agriculture development and export. Germany was doing just fine until they enacted radical environmental policies that closed down their nuclear plants, which not long after sent them into an energy recession due to the war being instigated in Russia and Ukraine in which Russia rug pulled their resources from Europe due to the threat of Nato backing Ukraine. This forced Germany to take steps backward and reopen their coal plants that produce twice as much CO² than natural gas and even more pollution than nuclear. Germany was sent into a recession because of radical climate change policies.

[@_unknown_guy]

That's any western country. Germany is not special in that regard.

[@vladdumitrica849]

​@@_unknown_guy You are wrong, Germany had a deal with Russia, just like at the beginning of World War II, despite the consequences of dependence on a single source of energy and despite knowing what kind of country it is and what ambitions it has. Same with the investments in China, they have developed a country that is a dictatorship and has an ideology that sees Western countries as enemies.

[@AndrewStamelakis]

@@_unknown_guy Germany is special, they hate nuclear, that's almost as dumb as brexit. No other country has done something so stupid in the continent

[@malayanboey3406]

So, you believe that Russia blew up the Nord Stream pipeline?

[@C1oudS-Gaming777]

@malayanboey3406 i may not go that far with many of our corrupt politicians being impartial to a new war due to their ties to the war mongers of the world, I'm not sure that I can confidently say that that was Russia. Many would benefit financially from the start of a war apart from Russia. I think it's horrible that that is the way it is but nontheless it would seem to be that way.

[@rupertnewton]

Key moment is around 1:37-1:39 mark, Varoufakus makes the point that “western values” included nato supporting a fascist dictatorship in Greece, in the Council of EU, so the idea we’re somehow better is a mixed bag at best, Kisin is in a double bind, he thinks an authoritarian west is the bulwark against low income undemocratic countries immigration, the consequences are we’re becoming *more* like them, we’re sliding towards them via oligarchic control and tech manipulation. Psychoanalysts refer to the process of “splitting”, where the self is unable to cope with its good and bad qualities simultaneously, and so “splits” the bad ones off and attributes them to other people, Kisin’s “us versus them” social darwinist simplifications is the kind of rhetoric that dives societies into conflict.

[@AndrewStamelakis]

"we" are bad, yes. But they (other strong civilizations) are far far worse. You're missing the forest mate... take a look at what China is doing in the pacific, at the borders with India, in the countries/people they have conquered like tibet, mongols, Uygurs, and more. You think CIA creating coups and staging assasinations is bad? Get ready for a reality check mate! Take a look at what russia has done all around them even after the collapse of the S.U. and you'll see how bad it CAN be!

[@Rn-pp9et]

This is the most hilarious take so far. Congratulations.

[@aishax01]

He's a jewish supremacist, theres no need to sugarcoat his belief

[@garchay]

Too long cba to read ^^

[@_Wai_Wai_]

​@@Rn-pp9etyour one liner could be hilarious if the subject isn't so serious

[@room2growrose623]

But the raucous applause for the points of an individual who is advancing communism, disguised as justice?!!! The delusion is incredible!! These are largely intellectuals, 🙄Going over to Patreon today to sign up as a member for Triggernometry. Thank you Konstantin 🔥👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@jennifermackinnon6982]

Largely intellectuals except for Konstantin. I agree there. He's a youtuber. And if people think youtubers can diagnose and provide solutions for the world's problems then God help us.

[@jennifermackinnon6982]

This is petty but the moderator is quite sickening, so pretentious.

[@karleells6540]

@@jennifermackinnon6982 leftist BBC

[@karleells6540]

@@jennifermackinnon6982 how about you rebutt anything Konstantin said? Oh? You can’t? Shocker.

[@gojiplusone]

Why is it that every left wing vs right wing type debate always have a brilliant world class academia/intellectual/etc representing the left and then there's some random youtuber representing the other side?

[@Rn-pp9et]

Because the left no longer provides intellectual critique of the established order (ie. Conservatism). They're just daffy Communists now. Their entire intellectual discourse centres around oppressor/oppressed dichotomy of Marxism and it's intellectual big brother, critical theory.

[@romankomarov423]

And 'random youtuber' beats them with one hand so apparently the only thing 'left intellectuals' can do is interrupting all the time

[@-JustHuman-]

One reasonable man vs lunatics with lies and fever dreams as arguments. Thanks for being honest and factual Konstantin, it's very much needed these days.

[@booz394]

Tunis getting so excited about a different country is rather telling… more women and children paid the sad price of war in Ukraine Yemen Sudan Mozambique Libya etc etc .. each conflict in the many hundreds of thousands…. Yes Israel at 43,000 , 32,000 of which are Hamas members… yet Yunis gets so excited… I guess isreal derangement… much like the trump derangement… would be laughable if it wasn’t sad

[@dimitrisblane6368]

Tbh his first example about Mexico was a total self own

[@montgomeryscot6623]

I miss Christopher Hitchens.

[@daniel.lopresti]

"The incomplete fulfilment of so many promises of liberty and equality" in the West ... compared to, where exactly? She's probably never left her village.

[@jasondashney]

The inclusion of “compared to what?” is ALWAYS necessary. if I hear one more socialist talk about how socialism is great but has never been tried, I’m going to scream. I’m really craving a good lefty intellectual that I can learn from and grow my perspectives with, but I can’t find any. Absolutely every single overtly left leaning intellectual is dishonest or stupid. Centrists are much more comfortable with discussing the flaws of the West. conservatives and hard-core capitalist will talk about the problems of capitalism. They are much more open to an honest discussion. I have never seen a very left, leaning intellectual willing to do the same. it sucks because I really want to see one. I wanna learn more, but I can’t learn anything from someone who isn’t honest.

[@ttuliorancao]

daniel.lopresti "compared to where?" compared to the own West and its own supposed values. The West is decade after decade with less liberty and equality than it had before: the US is increasingly anti immigration (freedom of movement of people was what created it's boom) and the wealth inequality is skyrocketing. So yeah, the West is crumbling morally from within, which makes it's own people suffer, causing social unrest that can cause it's decline.

[@Chips505]

What does it say about our Western educated intellectuals and technocrats, when the comic is making more sense.

[@yusufmussa6386]

It shows the level of your intelligence.

[@Plax123]

It says that academics and technocrats who insist on only getting their information from "reputable" sources, instead of investigating primary and/or alternative sources to compare with the "reputable" sources and critically analyze them, have become completely out of touch with reality on the ground.

[@LinoLagoful]

The woman at the introduction: “ All you see and saw and you are confirming with your own open eyes… is not true, is just your paranoia and conspiracy theories… so please don’t get upset” 😂😂

[@uniteforever-s9j]

1:52:31 WE KNEW IT !!! hahaha good one there

[@Bmrk349]

The first speaker can’t be serious, is she?

[@karleells6540]

@@Bmrk349 typical democrat in the USA. Clueless and dishonest

[@Jester123ish]

100% support Konstantin on this one. There is a fundamental issue underlying these debates, some people adhere to obeying the rules to determine if a thing is good, 'if everybody obeys the rules then generally the world will be a better place', and some people will look at consequences, 'if the consequences are good, then even if the rules weren't obeyed, the thing may have some virtue'. It's all about balance, 'rules vs outcomes', academics sadly seem to prefer to focus on the first and ignore the latter.

[@KravenMorhead8]

Konstantin totally held his own!

[@Nahuatl22]

No, no he didn’t.

[@KravenMorhead8]

Yes he did 😝

[@elvispontes4165]

Yeah and he was interrupted all the time.

[@chelseapoet3664]

And now I am having to repost my comment that YV falsely accused KK of regarding immigrants as "riff raff". KK never once attacked immigrants, in fact he empathised with them. I will repost this also if deleted. Moderation on YT is a joke.

[@Dimera09]

Couldn't agree more. YT comments tend to stick better if you "edit" them.

[@someone-w9n]

Because the immigrants, as they said, immigrants because their homelands were bombed by the west.

[@Michael-qg1gh]

Yanis embarrassing himself here. Lying in a debate means you lost.

[@LeonJaeggi-wx4uc]

Keep up the good posting my friend.... We'll win in the end........

[@jasondashney]

It's exactly the playbook of the illiberal modern liberal. They accuse you of things you didn't do, then try to hang you for it whilst ignoring what you actually said or did completely. It's dishonest.

[@Uwe-gb6nt]

Thax yanis.

[@christalee3643]

Konstantin speaks sense. Always. ♥️

[@0711mama]

That woman is incredibly naive

[@grannyannie2948]

I would say indoctrinated

[@ianelliott518]

as well as psychotic

[@KSRobinette]

The population of "Palestinian refugees" went from 750,000 in 1949 - nearly 7.5 million today. How does that result from a genocide? Israel could easily have killed ever person in Gaza with bombs in a few weeks and lost none of their own soldiers. If they intended genocide, that would have been the easy solution. Somehow, they've lost a lot of their own soldiers notifying civilians and terrorists alike before dropping bombs.

[@_unknown_guy]

Just compare to utopian numbers and you will never be good enough. Reality is not a thing. Embrace our enlightened leadership that knows better. Oh, wait that sounds like communism.

[@MaxPayne-fi1mz]

Why do you like Israel??

[@someone-w9n]

It's called ethnic cleansing! And there are still millions of Bosnians, yet we all know about bosniks genocide. So with Armenians and Jews. People survived doesn't mean genocide didn't happen.

[@Djo-ck4hm]

@@someone-w9n Bosnian genocide is blown out of proportion war crime used to justify NATO attack's on Bosnian Serbs and nothing more. Around 8.000 people all of them males where killed in one municipality and someone decided to call it genocide, its pure diluting of a word genocide. Stating that things that Israel is doing to Palestinians is ethnics cleansing and war crime.

[@Ale1015-g7t]

Using the same logic, you could say the same things about chews and hawlocost

[@MarcusCaddock]

Just wow. Varoufakis was completely disinterested in actually talking about the decline in the West and its implications. He just wanted the West to end and thinks that is what would make things good, and seems content that the greatest economic producers in the world will fail. All Varoufakis wants is for people to fit into his preestablished categories. Miller was just out to lunch trying to promote buzz words of privilege and diversity to get her feeling of what should be: a group divisible into smaller groups of people of certain superficial traits. There is no clear way to judge this as morally correct, she just wants people to fit into categories and thinks this rearrangement of people is morally good. Not that I agree with Kisin on every point, but he was the only one who was making sense.

[@aoeu256]

The West doesn't need to decline, we can slowly import millions of people from India, ASEAN, China into Australia and America, we can use singularity tech (bci = 10x productivity * super AI = 10x * replicators = 10x = 1000x productuvity increase.

[@ianelliott518]

Konstantin seems to be the only panelist who hasnt had their brain adled by academia and woke psychosis. Truly astonishing levels of historical ignorance demonstrated by Yanis. Sorry Konstantin but the hysterical Proffessor Miller Idriss was by far the most outstanding comedy performance evident on this occasion.

[@tecumseh4095]

He has the comprehension of a toddler

[@ianelliott518]

@@tecumseh4095 Keep up with the meds

[@tecumseh4095]

@@ianelliott518 Are you Russian like your buddy Konstantine?

[@standardprocedure7017]

@ianelliott518 Please explain this: "Konstantin seems to be the only panelist who hasnt had their brain adled by academia and woke psychosis. Truly astonishing levels of historical ignorance demonstrated by Yanis."

[@Lee-Van-Cle]

Kisin sounds like a liar. As a matter of fact, don't find any serious complaints about Chinese racism against Africans on KZbin. He also forgets the Global Warming, WWI and WWII that the West brought to humans. Those scales have completely outdone what other cultures did.

[@gregvisualfx]

I got a stong impression that Yanis is arguing againts things that Konstatin didn't say. Then after Konstantin for the 3rd time tries to repeat what he meant Yanis again seems to not listen or be to thick or pretends to not understand him. And then again Yanis adresses another Strawman of a Konstantin that he imagined in his head, I didn't think much of him before since he mostly spoke about the 2008 and aftermath but now after this debate I really think he is not all in there.

[@davidhowse884]

Is there a discussion to be had comparing multinational and multipolar? I would like to consider the UN getting rid of the Security Council, and instead creating a Legal Council, which looks at conflicts and potential conflicts from the perspective of international law, and presents this to the General Assembly.

[@lamrof]

የርስዎ አስተያየት አሁን የአለውን ዓለም አቀፍ የወንጀል ፍርድ ቤት አቅም አዳብሮ ብያኔው ሁሉ በተባበሩት ዓለም መንግስታት ሥር ተፈጻሚነት እንዲኖረው ማድረግ ይመስላል። አለመታደል ሆኖ ይህ ፍርድ ቤት ታሪኩ ጉድፍ ያለበት ነው። እርስዎ እንዳሉት አሁን ያለው የደህነነት ምክር ቤት በአለበት ሁኔታ መቀጠል አይችልም።

[@davidhowse884]

@@lamrof Something like that. If anything is "flawed", that should be addressed. Yes I agree that the Security Council should be representative of the world, however it is inherently flawed in a hegemonic rather than legal approach to international conflict. If the Security Council had India, representatives of Africa South America as permanent members Russia still would have invaded Ukraine in breach of the UN Charter, India still would have looked at the matter of as one of economic opportunism and bought cheap oil, so the the reason d'être of the UN to prevent the scourge of war, would not have been enforced. My view, if the world is ever to avoid major wars and resulting catastrophes such as famines, it should move the paradigm from power relations to legal interpretations, with the power being the collective will of the world's sovereign countries. I know this will not happen any time soon, but eventually, some century, it must happen if the world wants to avoid war. All nations should be regarded equally under international law. "What is right" replacing "might is right", in my opinion. Einstein, early 1900s, I think suggested something along similar lines, if humanity is to achieve a peaceful world.

[@sparty1928]

@@lamrof What a fascinating alphabet! Which language is that?

[@sparty1928]

@@davidhowse884 The powerful will never bow to law. That is why their vetoes may be frustrating, but also honest. It may be possible to restrict their use to issues concerning the veto power itself. Maybe Brazil, India, Germany, Japan, and South Africa should join. But the rule of law is not applicable to States as it is within.

[@davidhowse884]

@@sparty1928 That is the current state of affairs. However, it is theoretically possible to apply at global level a similar model to within (democratic) states, if the world wants to move on from hegemony. Maybe in centuries to come, but it is in my opinion, a possibility. The world does not vote for change unless there is a catastrophe, such as a nuclear war, or century of wars. I do not see the Security Council ever being effective at what the UN set out to do, "end the scourge of war". I do see war being diminished or stopped, even by a superpower participating, if the UN countries signed up to the UN Charter and enforced the UN Charter, ie a state goes rogue and all other 192 states condemn and sanction. I think a paradigm is possible. I believe Einstein, early 1900s, considered this was the solution too. Alternatively the wars will come more and more frequently in the future especially as countries try to increase their candidacy for "multipolar" status.

[@southwegianofazanochine6114]

Two University Profs against one comdeian. But he holds his own.

[@gustavocambeiro5545]

Not only held his own, but showed the audience why academia is the one failing.

[@thelongstory6395]

The comedian turned them into jokes.

[@slow88LX]

Yanis cannot allow the truth be spoken. He MUST interrupt.

[@carolinekofahl8867]

Listening I become even more of a fan of Konstantin Kisin. And I get a way better understanding of why Greece and Greek economy are as they are ☺️

[@Stoddardian]

The West was the only industrialized imperialist power? Has Yanis ever heard of Japan? Or...you know...the USSR?!

[@_unknown_guy]

Those failed so don't count, right?

[@LeonJaeggi-wx4uc]

You must understand that in the closed world they live in, nobody ever disagreed with him. Worry not.. he will not read your wisdom or if perchance and in error he did he would simply disregard, it as the mumberlings of the the disgruntled few. ( Techno speak for everybody else)

[@mannycomas]

The user was part of the west. Your stupidity is in full display

[@aoeu256]

Japan and the USSR are technically part of the West.

[@jameskamotho7513]

One can't help but notice the smug looks on Cynthia and Yanis whenever Kisin speaks.

[@boomboxxa]

God bless you konstantin, all of us know what you talk about, some of us are scared to speak out and some of us are oblivious and pursue utopia

[@tilemccarthy7428]

K. Kisin is 💯 right. The world has been faught over since the beginning of time and it will continue to do so till the end of time. The only question we the west should ask is what kind of civilisation do we want to live in? I like the values we have in the democratic nations and hope we stay that way till the end times 🙏💯

[@gi8771]

An immigrant doing a hard job that locals don't want to do themselves - defending the Western way of life. Well done Konstantin. You won this.

[@dunzhen]

His issue is he believes others want to impose their values on the West. It's part of the cope where we believe every country would behave like the West if they were in our shoes, this is to make us feel better about our past and present. In a more multipolar world this capability is decreased for all, and at any rate only the West has this evangilizing mission. He is still enveloped in the Western inteligencia and I can tell he believes Western narratives on non-Western countries, most of which are BS. I agree with most else though, I think he's pretty on point there.

[@monophthalmus3254]

Western way of life? You mean arrogance, ignorance, and exploitation? Thatis what Kisin was talking about.

[@TheKaosTux]

@@monophthalmus3254 cry me a river. Do you even remotely understand how history, how the world (human societies) work? I assume not, so let me explain. There is no moral point. Morality is hypothetical and an intellectual thought. You can’t apply this to a singular big society and you definitely can’t apply Moral to all societies simultaneously and equally. It is not possible. That mean, no matter what you do, the majority of the world will disagree with you. Not because your argument is stupid, wrong or false. Because of their own interest. You can call it greedy.. that’s how Societies survive. And you can’t do anything about it. There will never ever be any global society that collectively agrees on anything. Shit, there will never ever be the majority of societies being democracies. Democracies are minorities on this planet. That’s how it is and no one cares about how people feel about that. Because it’s irrelevant. Every nation/country/society did horrible things in history. There is NO Exception. There is no moral high ground.

[@joshn6412]

Miller-Idriss is intolerable.

[@joppevanommen3001]

I love it when M. Varoufakis thinks he is the ultimate judge on this panel. I hope a reality check flies to him.

[@Nahuatl22]

Naw, Konstantin moans like a spoiled child, as if he’s views are the ultimate ones.

[@davesmith6455]

I wonder why Yanis is so defensive?

[@Nahuatl22]

Konstantin is a lot worse. 😂

[@WaaDoku]

Hilarious. Triggernometry's upload of this debate has more views after 1 hour than this has garnered in 4 days.

[@findlay234]

And I assume you've come to see what the 'un-biased' comments section will be like? I know what to expect from the trggernometry comments section. I've come here to see what other people are saying...

[@WaaDoku]

@@findlay234 No, I watched the rest of the debate here. Triggernometry upload was just a section of the discussion minus the opening statements. Comment sentiment is pretty similar on both videos.

[@nimishachowdhury4577]

Because his podcasts and channels are more popular.

[@WaaDoku]

@@nimishachowdhury4577 Evidently so.

[@santinopaone-hoyland]

Why is this hilarious? If Beyonce uploaded this debate to her channel it'd have more views than Triggernometry in an hour.

[@dmitrykonovalov3368]

Константин очевидно является лоббистом. Он пытается манипулировать собеседниками и я рад, что у него это не получилось сделать.

[@gustavpetrov2665]

My man j. Kisin..long life to you

[@aptibabayt]

Russian guy is brilliant.

[@ГлебВерховский-п2р]

He is British, not Russian. Even though he was born there

[@jbllc6873]

@@ГлебВерховский-п2рhe’s Russian, emigrated to the UK as a child.

[@pagansgames]

Yes he is brilliant

[@OskarBosco-o2w]

He is one of the thought leaders of the woke right.

[@PjRjHj]

​@@OskarBosco-o2w utter garbage. Alongside James Lindsey, Konstantin Kisin is habitually calling out the awkwardly named "Woke Right"

[@jimmycricket7385]

I have no idea what are the bone fides of the obligatory Jew on the panel, Mr. Kisin. He's introduced as 'author and commentator' - which tells us he knows how to read and write and talk. He seems to be valued by Western windbag platforms for attacking Russia at the drop of a hat. I'm quite surprised his introduction didn't also include 'dissident' and 'gulag dodger.'

[@Rn-pp9et]

Who cares if he's a common rube? He is the only person to actually make argument about the decline of the West. The intellectuals didn't even bother. Start at the beginning to see what they identify is causing the decline and then fast forward to 2h25m to listen to their solutions. Just clown show from these 'academics'.

[@senzomthembu261]

A friend of mine was from a very disadvantage war tornend African country in rural family where there was no roads,clean water,walking barefoot 1hour+ to school with empty stomach,land with no electricity.He recieved a scholarship to study in SA.Whn he was amongst other students he felt so extremely dump yet he was d smartest in his own country.He spoke english but he didn't understand a word in class,he didn't even knw how 2 move a computer mouse,he worked 10× then others but he's passing rate was poor but improving.After 3yrs he realised that all this was very easy 4 him it just that he came from a different reality or background,ppl who he thought were smarter than him,he realised that they were actually dumber then him,he ended up becaming 1 of d best students.

[@doddim]

Kisin is a giant compared to this Varoufaskis figure. Everything he says stands up to scrutiny. Truly a giant.

[@tecumseh4095]

Nope. Far from it

[@monophthalmus3254]

A giant idiot? Yes.

[@DogonChild]

😂😂😂

[@Drosophilax]

The most chilling moment was the several seconds long silence after Konstantin's " Trump must not fail!" remarks.

[@Papuaani]

1:39:40 Ahh, now I see what Yanis is all about. He compares civilizations across all times, instead of looking at the current day and near history of each civilization. To me it seems very pointless to look at civilizations like that though. None of these civilizations are the same they have always been, they change! By now not China, Russia, India, Greek, Iran or any other civilization can claim to be the exact same as they were some 500-1000 years ago when they were dominating the world. Heck if that was true the Mongols have the peak culture and we should all roam the lands in yurts, herding our sheeps (until we get bored and decide to raid so much we form an empire)

[@lucri988]

Dont forget Yanis should also mention that Mongols killed around 11% of earth population. But no, lets keep talking about "west man bad grrr" shall we Yanis?

[@Zidana123]

"By now not China, Russia, India, Greek, Iran or any other civilization can claim to be the exact same as they were some 500-1000 years ago when they were dominating the world" Of that list, China is now the closest thing to its previous historical norm. President-For-Life Xi Jinping is basically a modern Emperor now that the constitutional term limits were removed and has been ruling with basically no political opposition since 2022. The farthest one from its historical norm is probably the Indians. They had never been united on such a scale until the Brits created the Raj.

[@zarat5151]

Ahh, and to me you seem like a stupid, uneducated man who thinks parallels can't be drawn with distant civilizations because you are incapable of observing the patterns.

[@zendanceprojectarchanharmo579]

@@lucri988 of course, some would like to think that they were the only victims of, say, the Mongols. Some would have the gall to bring up Eastern European nations who suffered under the USSR and utterly ignore imperialists who plundered the entire globe. Somehow, a group of people that make less than 20% of the planet think they have an objective view. but 'west man bad grrr'

[@lucri988]

@zendanceprojectarchanharmo579 Yeah whats even crazier is Genghis wars killed over 10% of the entire planets population. But lets gloss over that. Lets name restaurants from him. Lets write songs. Or the traders of humans in Afrca were their own people and got riches ä, weapons etc doing so. Not just from the wst but also ME and asia. First one had bigger slvs than anyone else for longer time. Or countless other empires that looted and offed many other civilisations. But we rarely talk about that or put that into the spot light in the same way AT ALL. Its only one direction. So yeah you are correct ;)

[@Chris_89]

This makes me seriously embarrassed to be a Norwegian. Just know that this View is only held by those in power as the biggest wet dream in Norway is to get an international job, and being woke is somehow good to get jobs at EU, UN and NATO.

[@gonzalocunarro]

Oil has made you lazy. In a way Dutch disease is inescapable, just like the golf states even if they diversify and the economy is safe, the government and the people become self-entitled and lazy, oil money insulates you from the consequences of bad decisions.

[@jasondashney]

The VAST majority of people in all these western woke countries don't like it. That's the sad part. Yannis is very famous, more than KK and this is a Holberg channel but 99% of the comments support KK. That should tell you something. Go watch the Munk debate with Jordan Peterson and Stephen Fry. It will hurt your heart seeing how far Malcolm Gladwell has fallen.

[@gonzalocunarro]

The audience seems pretty stupid too, oil sovereign fund money has made your elites lazy and stupid.

[@michaelhiggins2562]

Thank you so much for inviting Mr. Kisin!

[@joppevanommen3001]

A very shame there was no glass mirror for M. Varoufakis, if there were he wouldn’t have needed the public to praise him.

[@Jacqueline_S]

2:15:40 LOL It took everything Konstantin had not to spit that water out in laughter and shock at “we have a climate catastrophe” I love Konstantin, thank God there are still people with the ability to think independently and critically in the public eye and not backing down!

[@SvalbardSleeperDistrict]

You are so right! Real critical thinking there instead of citing some science numbers ❤ schools should not be teaching woke ideological subjects like physics and chemistry either, we need to reclaim scriptures-based life from this madness!

[@Muzikman127]

@@SvalbardSleeperDistrict lol

[@Muzikman127]

@@SvalbardSleeperDistrict acerbic

[@rosariomusumeci9724]

I love the logic of Kisin in debating all these global issues.

[@chelseapoet3664]

I commented that there are two leftist speakers against one conservative. My comment was deleted. That only confirms the bias of this channel. I will keep reposting if it is deleted.

[@Dimera09]

I have had the same experience so many times. I have left comments on other videos about democratic deficit of the EU and KZbin deletes them!! Amazing.

[@karleells6540]

@@chelseapoet3664 true

[@jasondashney]

@@Dimera09 People keep saying stuff like this on page after page but I don't think I've ever had a comment taken down and I write very damning stuff against the lefties all the time. Interesting.

[@Muzikman127]

There is one American liberal, one leftist, and one right winger. That's fairly balanced. The reason Yanis & Kissin agreed on many points, e.g. Ukraine, is that often the populist right and the left have more in common with each other on such issues than either do with the Liberal establishment.

[@karleells6540]

@ to say Yanis a Krisin agreed on much here is a stretch. Krisin has common sense. Yanis has zero common sense

[@flain283]

After getting many "reaction videos" in my feed it was kind of hard to find this video, the actual video without commentary from some random person. None of the reactors linked the original video. I had to snipe see it from one of the reactors exposing his video bar title.

[@taylorlivingston5963]

Only watched for Konstantin

[@AndreaFilippoLongo]

I see, his fan base is all here.

[@karleells6540]

Me too

[@kitkat253]

Agree with Kisin that today western values are easily the best on offer, and it shocks me when I see so many in social media eulogise China and condemn the US, and I am pretty certain they live in the west, but ignorant of what it is to live in the countries that are part of the Chinese umbrella, like North Korea, Iran or Myanmar, where hundreds of millions of ordinary citizens live under totalitarian regimes. Yes the west has had a terrible history of extortion and colonialism, but we live in the present, and the debate is about the present. Yes the US has an appalling record of destabilising countries, and the criminal activities of their Bankers is never challenged by a corrupt Congress, but the freedoms that prevail for individual liberty in the west are without question the best.

[@cliu217]

Most on social media are pro U.S. and anti China. People know social media apps are blocked in China so there’s only so much China’s propagandists can do

[@intlprofs1]

One of many such debates where the title does not get enough time, specifically.

[@mariakrumova5640]

Agree with Konstantin.

[@BBL8186]

Constantin is the only one who make sense and honest.

[@sparty1928]

"Brics South Ameri... Africa!" "Maybe I'm missing Canada on the UN Security council?" How can you let someone like her moderate a discussion like that. Varoufakis is full of himself and clueless at the same time. The lady in the centre is talking about 36 suicides when it comes to world security. This has got to be a joke.

[@willietorben560]

This is not a debate or discussion, it's entertainment. You know what a discussion could be with regard to the issues they mention, at the time they did this clownerie? It could, for example, be: People who actually know their stuff discussing the various factions in Syria, and their history and relationships, and what their reactions to the post-Assad reality, and the reactions of external "players" to all this, can indicate about future developmeents - what is possible, what is likely, what not so much, and what can probably be ruled out for the foreseeable future. This is just overrated talking heads shooting off their mouths Anoymous calls this "USI" - unwarranted self-importance. None of it has any substance, because everything they talk about is contigent on the longevity of Putin (the man who *invented* "the West" as the entity they are talking about), and how precisely the power structure he now controls devolves when he is dead (because there is no chance anytime soon that anyone else can hold this together).

[@Plax123]

​@@willietorben560Vladimir Putin did not invent "The West". It goes all the way back to the fall of the Roman Empire.

[@adrianrentz5515]

Konstantin - its like being seated next to a rose garden full of aroma! Yanis and Cynthia? They are nothing more than a bad egg fart!

[@Nahuatl22]

Konstantin fan boys will say anything to make their clown speaker sound intelligent. What a clown. 😂😂😂

[@dav__71]

I know a guy in Afghanistan who wants to skip past all the countries on the way to Australia to stay in Australia. People aren't stupid, they know it's better here, it's just obvious.

[@jasondashney]

KK says people come to the west so clearly it's better. Yannis says "Yeah but the west is bad and jerks so people are fleeing their countries". Yeah, still to come to the west, dummy.

[@navsegda78]

There seems to be a clear pattern among those who believe the climate is changing, view capitalism as inherently flawed, dismiss anti-Israel or antisemitic sentiments as acceptable, and fully embrace globalization. A bold man with a thick Greek accent perfectly embodies these ideas.

[@seandrew7837]

There a collective name for that group of people: They’re called ‘The Left’ You’re welcome.

[@MassacrisM]

I assume you meant to say bald, because nothing bold about parroting talking points of intellectual elites for the last 10 years.

[@Entertainment-]

I don’t agree with Destiny at all, but he coined it as a constellation of beliefs and I thought that is very fitting.

[@navsegda78]

@@MassacrisMI ment the man with the bold head

[@aoeu256]

VRK is for globalization? Being anti-Israel foreign polity is being anti-Jewish people, what about Jews against

[@andres9132]

Thanks Konstantin for the job you're doing. Keep it up 💪

[@zarni000]

for the job he's doing embarrassing himself

[@Petros_Michalakopoulos]

Konstantin made an amazing speech.

[@enterthehacker]

KIssin was by far and away the most impressive speaker, and intellectual. The others were simply simpering pseuds trying valiantly to massage their guilty consciences for being in an elevated position, completley undeservedly. This wasn't even close.

[@danleemiller7313]

This BBC journalist begins her introduction with one biased cliche after another. Can't we do better and try to avoid Western biases?

[@ChicagoTurtle1]

Did she say our democracy is under threat? Her country or even America is not a democracy.

[@dpdonahue]

Good debate. Thank you!

[@andyhemsted4570]

Three speakers. And the comedian and podcaster makes more sense than the academics. That is a shame

[@susanstevenson9619]

Universities were once a place of learning through science or mathematics or original thought. Nowadays it’s an echo chamber that students have to regurgitate using the Harvard method of referencing to show no original thought at all. It just churns out people who need to pass a class rather than promoting critical thinking 😊

[@slow88LX]

Free speech, as long as Cynthia agrees with it. 2:40:46

[@Lex-wx3ib]

Nothing like middle class guilt to produce liberal hypocrisy.

[@richardh7231]

One sane voice, Konstantin.

[@ruthokelley5833]

Great debate…I appreciate the ideas brought up that need to be contemplated. Thanks…

[@lamrof]

እንዲህ ያሉ ገንቢ ዝግጅቶን ማግኘት ይቻላል በማህበራዊ መገናኛዎች ነገር ግን በጥንቃቄ መምረጥ ያስፈልጋል።

[@Shalien333]

That's LIFE. Has it Ever Been Fair and Equitable for All?? NO!! And It may Never BE!!??

[@tonycooper5599]

Even if that were true, does that mean that we do not strive for it?

[@kibun1]

When you hear Mrs Miller and Mr Varoufkis the West is doomed.

[@aaronfrench8837]

These professors are insufferable

[@LeonJaeggi-wx4uc]

Lucky they hardly ever meet adults .....just eachother and children.....the latter contact is the problem and they steal a salary from us for it!!!

[@bangon2023]

Konstantin destroys their whining, nonsense lefty arguments.

[@antskilu1354]

95% professors are left ,95% media is left, there is no greex nor Egyptians,they were overrun long ago

[@edwards409]

The intellectual gap between Kisin and his opponents is so vast, it almost feels unfair to them, to be pitting them against him in a debate. They seem to be arguing not against Konstantin, but against reality. Which is obvious even without Konstantin's remarks.

[@tiefensucht]

..or you are stupid and fall for simple rhetoric and fail to understand the content.

[@standardprocedure7017]

What reality did Kisin speak of that the others missed ?

[@bopndop2347]

yikes

[@edgardeguzman2773]

And I am not a fan of Constantine. Yet, I admit that he understand more clearly than the rest including the audiences.

[@chelseapoet3664]

2 leftist speakers v one conservative / right of centre speaker....seems legit 🙄

[@Nahuatl22]

The fact that you still use left/right plectrum shows your level of intellect. It’s similar to Konstantin’s.

[@Plax123]

If only I could show to my 2014/15 self what Yanis Varoufakis would become I would have never held him in such high regard. KK did a great job holding his own as the only serious debater on the dais.

[@RedWhiteBlueJew]

1:18:39 is Yanis paid by China? “All they want to do is sell stuff?” This guy is dangerously ignorant or a paid Chinese guy. If that were true, why is there TikTok completely different than the one they exported to the world?

[@Plax123]

He's Greek, arrogant and has clearly never spoken to any serious Tibetan, Vietnamese, Taiwanese, Filipinos, Japanese or Korean person. Hell, ask any Indian about China "just wanting to sell stuff". He is utterly detached from reality.

[@peterparadis6788]

Wow Janis, blatant lies.

[@zatras69]

After listening to these two women, I had to stop. The assumptions they made were overwhelming-too numerous to list here. Thank you for sharing, but I’ve had enough of these high-school-level talking points.

[@gonzalocunarro]

I'm not saying Yannis is a National Socialist... but he surely looks and sounds like one...

[@xxvxxv5588]

He is globalist, not nationalist

[@gonzalocunarro]

@@xxvxxv5588 yeah, where do you think that leads? Adolf spoke of a "new world" order, complained to no end, about all time of grievances the allied perpetuated, just like these people do today. Authorianism changes colors but maintains its essence.

[@Maximilian-Robespierre]

lol

[@markslist1542]

Trump has openly said he's not messing with abortion rights.....that is up to congress, not the executive branch.

[@satanshantverkare]

The left does not care what trump really says or means. They think they got this conspiracy figured out.

[@hikeandtrek1586]

I can feel the frustration of Kisin by putting his hands on his face. That is exactly how I feel the whole time listening to the insanity of Varoufakis.

[@silvanaagrapedes5669]

Worthy watching just because of Constantine. The moderator was not very good. The other two participants are clowns. The Greek guy shows why Greece is not relevant at all. The American professor proves it is a waist of time and money to get any degree from today’s universities!

[@soulabear9146]

Yanis, handed Contantine his ass😂

[@hemlock527]

Make critical thinking mandatory in primary and secondary schooling

[@rosemaryalles6043]

Yes. This (the absence of it) is at the heart of the delusion in the west.

[@karleells6540]

@@hemlock527 puke. Critical thinking is the opposite of its namesake

[@karleells6540]

Not if it’s taught by a leftist

[@burpium1767]

I agree with Konstantin. The world will need someone to be in charge. But, i disagree that the West should be the one in charge anymore. I also don't like Russia or China to be in charge either. But, the idea that one power will be the dominant force, whoever it is, that in itself, i can agree.

[@Knuckles2761]

I am sorry for being rude, but Konstantin is just smarter. And the difference is significant, like ~30 IQ points.

[@AndreaFilippoLongo]

The fact that many people think so, is just alarming and pictures how our ability to think critically is gone.

[@ems8290]

You have to have a much lower IQ than average to believe your statement...

[@jasondashney]

Don't confuse IQ with the ability to think. The dumbest ideas in history were often created by the "best and brightest".

[@MichalBurke98]

Thank you Konstantin!!!💜

[@YuriDSC]

Such great example of the problems in the West. People like Idriss, Varoufakis and the host are not there to debate and actually work thing out. They are there to make sure their side wins, regardless of how or at what cost. All 3 of them are utter failures, Varoufakis, somehow is more embarrassing than ever, this person never fails to dig deeper, that hole of a legacy he has created.