Is THIS Better than 3D Printing?

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"3D printing that would be WAY better!" ⬅️ This is the type of comment we get on our videos daily. And while 3D printing is a fantastic technology, is it superior to injection moulding? It really depends on your definition of better... Cheaper? Faster? Higher quality? More sustainable? We decided to pit 3D Printers and Injection Moulders against each other to try and settle things once and for all.
🔗 Links to what we used and referenced in the video:
Sustainable Design Studio Injection Mini: tinyurl.com/bd...
Bead Mould: tinyurl.com/5a...
BambuLab A1: tinyurl.com/eu...
Prusa MK4: tinyurl.com/68...
Big thanks to Arts University Bournemouth for the use of their Innovation Studio for filming.
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FAQ:
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Music by Epidemic Sound

[@tomholroyd7519]

Now do an episode on mold making. How much does it cost to DIY a comb mold?

[@LucianoFoxtrot]

Depends of the CNC you're needing to carve, the aluminum sourcing, how clean you want your mold to be (with/without much layer lines for example if you're not using 5 axis). Also companies have to pay time spent to 3d design and test the molds prototypes, so it varies a lot if by "DIY" you means hobbyist or small lab.

[@dadoVRC]

From nothing, to a lot.

[@oasntet]

It can be done without a CNC. You can make a positive of the item (say, on a 3d printer) and then create a mold from high-temperature silicone. It does benefit a lot from being placed in a rigid shell (e.g. a metal blank) and it does have some wobble in fine details that needs to be taken into account. That said, it's not easy; it took The Crafsman quite a few tries to get a working mold using this technique, but he has successfully done injection mold runs this way. But the cost of CNCs are dropping extremely rapidly, too, so this is not the price savings it once was when molds were several thousand dollars...

[@microfx]

@@oasntetwhat's a good CNC to consider (I'm a normal hobbyist ... would buy something like a cheap A1 mini Style CNC 😀)

[@amandasnider2644]

It probably all depends on your own skills set plus what materials and equipment you have to begin with

[@doubleleterlady]

I had no idea that those curtains were for flies!!!

[@OkOhYeah]

OMG same!!!!

[@TheOfficialOriginalChad]

I don’t get how they could be. Is the goal to keep the fly in one room or something?

[@guybrush20X6]

@@TheOfficialOriginalChad It basically makes what the flies perceive as a solid wall so they don't go in. Plus they can't move them by themsleves so they can't go through.

[@Kelly-tp1wq]

never knew they were fly curtains. just thought it was the decorating trend at the time.

[@glawenclattuc3127]

@@TheOfficialOriginalChadIt’s like a screen door that they have in America. It’s so you can open your door when it is very hot without flies coming into the house.

[@jim-i-am]

You guys should collab with Slant3D on a 'challenge' to refine the scope of when to use 3d print farms vs. when to invest in injection moulding. I agree with your conclusions that each has their place. It'd be very entertaining to see two very passionate sides of the argument go head to head, though ... sorta like a heavy weight boxing match for plastic production!

[@rickytleung]

3D printing and injection moulding have their use cases and I love the fact that you gents went through the pros and cons between the two technologies and processes. Use a 3D printer to help prototype a design with the intention of using injection moulding later for larger scale manufacturing. I'd imagine the aluminum injection moulds costs quite a bit of money and time to fabricate so using a 3D printer to iterate through your product design makes the most sense, minimizing the cost and time spent creating the moulds for injection moulding.

[@merreborn]

FDM and injection molding even compliment each other. I've used the DIY recycling techniques from this channel's videos to recycle my own 3d printing waste into useable parts. The panini press melting technique works great with supports/failed prints/printer poop. There are other "recycle your 3d prints" videos on youtube, but most of them don't get the quality marbling demonstrated in Brothers Make videos (sorting your plastic and careful folding makes for a much more visually striking final product)

[@zippybean]

You missed one thing. How long does it take to make an ejection mold ? That needs to be added into the total time.

[@lgenic]

Exactly… 3d print from nothing vs mould from something. Also a resin printer would print the beads quicker than filament.

[@yatyas72]

The molds they are using for the beads, comb and glasses could easily be cut from aluminum in a day.

[@trygvij1604]

@@lgenic yep. SLA printing would def be the fastest and cheapest for beads making I believe.

[@TheM750]

@@trygvij1604 Injection molding would still be the cheapest

[@Utseuski]

​@@yatyas72so you need a high quality CNC as well? 😜

[@antronk]

That print orientation of the comb in the slicer is 100% engagement bait ;)

[@ZURAD]

3D printing shines with custom tooling. You could make a simple pneumatic press with 3D printed parts for taking those beads off of the sprues all at once

[@frikkiesmit327]

Man! Legend you are!

[@donart8841]

What’s the cost of molds against 3D printing files

[@LucianoFoxtrot]

If 3d printers could make parts cheaper and faster, then industry would have stopped plastic injection long time ago. It can makes part at home, which is already impressive.

[@Steve-bs7bo]

Shoe companies now have 3d printers, for designs that are impossible with injection moulding. It doesn't take much complexity to eliminate injection moulding as an option. I really like the option of both though, different use cases for sure, and recycling/ reusing has to be better then land fill.

[@LucianoFoxtrot]

@@Steve-bs7bo few shoes companies selling expensive shoes != the whole industry

[@Steve-bs7bo]

@LucianoFoxtrot didn't say whole industry, it is new tech and needs to evolve. But major companies like Adidas and some start ups too.

[@LucianoFoxtrot]

@@Steve-bs7bo this is definitely not new

[@Steve-bs7bo]

@@LucianoFoxtrot it is pretty new to the shoe industry. Printers and materials have evolved to the stage that it is now viable. These are not generally the hobby level machines or materials.

[@paulpardee]

Why did you print the comb in that orientation? Just off the top of my head, that would be the absolute worst orientation for it - the forces are going to be perpendicular to the layer lines and you'll break teeth, AND it would print much slower because you have to wait for the small layers to cool, AND you'd have a ton of stringing (potentially). I used to be in industrial plastics - injection molding, blow molding, crown molding, the works. I'd say the biggest benefit of 3D printing is consistency and ease of use. We'd have machines that would be cranking out parts without issue all night, then someone 3 buildings away would sneeze and we'd spend the rest of the shift trying to get the parts going again. You'll sometimes get prints that don't want to cooperate, but I've never had the issues with even my cheap, ancient 3D printer that I had with the big injection molding machines. But ultimately, you're right. Injection molding does one thing, it does it very well and very quickly. 3D printing does a nearly unlimited number of things, very slowly and with a rough finish. For now... I think the story will be very different in 20 years.

[@SirSpence99]

The thing you need to account for is the cost of machines. With basic optimizations, you can get the throughput of a 3d printer factory to be equivalent to an injection molding machine at the same cost. And that can be done today. Only once you are talking the absolutely massive machines that can spit out hundreds of thousands of parts per day does that end up favoring injection molding again, and only because you can micro optimize the material use and save enough money for it to make sense. Lego bricks for example would be stupid to print as you would need to change their size so they are larger in order to be strong enough. Duplo bricks would make sense if they were printed.

[@thenextlayer]

3d printing excels where you want to be able to customize or personalize items. Not for mass scale manufacturing generally. So not a great comparison. But a fair point.

[@HistoricaHungarica]

This needs investigating! (Making a video recreating the experiment with 3d printing farm and sending the beads to quality control 🫠)

[@LiamRay10]

Doesn't help he used a mk4 instead of a bambu p1p/a1, would have leveled the scales. (speed)

[@elitewolverine]

Actually for the cost of one employee operating 3 mold machines, I can purchase 100 bambu A1 minis, pumping out 5 combs an hour each. That is 12000 combs a day max, far far far greater volume than what the small injection modling can do.

[@HistoricaHungarica]

@elitewolverine if you can respool and clean and whatnot within 1-1 minute per printereafter every print and you can sequence the prints so you are continously scrape the beds and whatnot then you loop around every 100 mins... so max 7 loops a day. That is only 3500 combs my dude

[@yatyas72]

@@elitewolverine You comb your hair with that 3d comb for year and I'll use the injection molded one. I guarantee you at the end of the year, yours will not have held up as well as the injection molded one.

[@skyriftnetwork]

Don't forget manual labor when calculating the price of injection molding, 3D printing is mostly automated leaving you free to do other things. Injection molding requires you to be there the entire time.

[@OpalSea]

Hahaha, they literally show you asking this question and then answer it. 😂

[@Mindbulletz]

@@OpalSea And they answer it wrong. They said "you have to maintain the printers" as if that takes nearly the same amount of time as operating the injectors. It absolutely does not. Source: we have shelves full of prusa XLs that I work on at my workplace, and I also work with a guy who runs a bambu farm. You only get similar labor cost with unreliable printers. The prusa mark 4 used in the example might actually be _the_ most reliable printer that you can buy below enterprise grade.

[@davidskidmore3442]

@@Mindbulletz I've worked in injection molding shops with fully automated equipment that just requires someone check on it to swap the output bin when it's full, and refill the input hopper every few hours. Thousands upon thousands of perfectly clear medical-grade parts came out of that machine every shift. The real story, which they talk about in the conclusion, is that for any given part, there's a volume of output where it makes sense to switch from FDM to injection.

[@Mister_Mxyzptlk]

You should make a collab with Slant3D. You could design a functional part for injection molding while Gabe could design a part for the same function for FDM mass production and finally you could do the math and cross-check the forecasted costs. That would be something really interesting to watch...

[@adama1294]

If you want to make massive abounts of the same item then injection molding is better. If you are prototyping, making complex parts, short runs or a job shop, 3d printing is better. Making 3d filament is also a valid use to recycle plastic. For the average person, they will get WAY more use out of a 3d printer than injection molding. For the small boutique recyclers trying to make the most product, the injection molding will make a lot of sence.

[@SirSpence99]

And when you say massive amounts, that starting point is at about 100k pieces. And even then, 3d printing is going to be competitive. This example they have is the ideal setup for injection molding and the worst for 3d printing and they didn't even pretend to make it fair. Ask them how much they spent on machines...

[@yatyas72]

@@SirSpence99 100k pieces?!! You do know you can get far less than that right? In the case of the combs you could get 200 pieces and the mold made quite inexpensively plus you could get reorders fairly quickly or even delivered seamlessly if you have known quantities spaced throughout the year or lifetime of the product. PLEASE SPEAK TO SOMETHING YOU KNOW ABOUT!

[@SirSpence99]

@@yatyas72 Generally it helps when you want to disagree with someone that you address what they said instead of something you made up. Why don't you think for at least a second this time and not assume I am an idiot and might have a point. Assuming you aren't an idiot, you should be able to at least get an inkling for why your comment is irrelevant.

[@pat_link_]

Great video, injection moulding can make usable things from recycled plastic, and 3D printers create prototype problem-solving solutions. In my opinion, they are difficult to compare, but you did a good job demonstrating it. Both have their place in a good markerspace ♻️

[@MrQuantumvisions]

moulds are expensive add another 5k for a cnc machine and probably £30-50 for material then your getting closer to equality 3d printing will always be faster for one offs or prototypes injection moulding is always cheaper for mass production

[@JeffDM]

Mold making is a specialty in its own right. Also don’t forget the cost of work holding, tool holding and the bits, you can sink a lot of money in those. The cost of the shop space it takes shouldn’t be ignored either.

[@yatyas72]

Molds can be made very inexpensively as in this case where they have straight pull parts with split line molds. If you design the mold and just have it cut at a local machine shop out of 6061 or 7075 aluminum, you're only paying for machine time so the cost is quite cheap. I've done molds like this for several customers fishing lures, watch pieces, USB over molding, etc and they usually run a couple hundred dollars. You didn't have to buy and own all the equipment to do this.

[@robertmartinu8803]

You can always build a Milo, saves you about 3k to put towards stock for moulds!

[@SirSpence99]

Injection molding only has two things going for it, first is strength for small parts (3d prints are stronger for large parts) and cranking out excessive amounts of parts in short order. But you rarely get orders like that so it is almost always better to just maintain a stock.

[@yatyas72]

@@SirSpence99 I don't know where your experience in injection molding comes from but rarely did we receive orders for less than several thousand pieces. In 25 years of being in injection molding I can count on one hand the amount of times molds were changed so much that they had to be redesigned or remade. Most were minor changes that took a day or two and we were back making parts. I have aluminum molds with 100's of thousands of parts made on them so expensive hardened steel molds are not required. Large parts for 3D printing aren't even comparable in quality to Injection Molded pieces. From surface finish to strength of parts. Where 3D Printing works in plastics is for prototyping and very short runs but once again there is NO COMPARISON in the quality and strength of a molded part.

[@oasntet]

The Crafsman has made some discoveries that could drive the cost of injection molds down significantly, especially for small batches. He got a couple blank molds made, and then slots high-temperature silicone molds (made from positives that are resin-printed) into those. So he can make injection molds at home. They won't last as long as CNC'd molds, but they can be iterated on for much, much cheaper.

[@Biru_to]

What's the benefit of the blank molds? Hold the silicon molds?

[@oasntet]

@@Biru_to Yeah, they're a little floppy, so the extra support keeps them in place and helps resist the pressure from the injection process. He's had success with just backing with cardboard, but prefers the metal blanks for rigidity and repeatability.

[@Biru_to]

@@oasntet Thanks for answering my question! Probably is worth it over something simple/cheap like cardboard / mdf when you do a lot of molding like he does. 👍

[@eymamma]

Don't worry about the waste from the 3D printer. Just buy an injection molder and make the waste into beads :D

[@evamikem]

LOVE THE VIDEOS!! Your guys injections are so clean. We are struggling with flashing especially with the beads mould. We have tightened the mould as much as we dare but it still happens. thanks Mike

[@GrantParkerstudio]

You guys actually inspired some of my work in molding 3D printed waste into parts for my products. So best of both worlds from this video. Keep up the good work guys!

[@derekwright2388]

That mini Injection moulding machine is awesome! would love one of them!..... With the Injection moulding the mould is the slow bit right, you have to make the mould or buy it....

[@gregspecht3706]

Yeah that wasn't included in their time factor. If it takes 3-6 weeks to get the mold that's a couple weeks the 3d printer has to print. I agree both have their place but I think the run volumes are higher than 1 off and are closer to 1000-10000

[@chrisco722]

It takes 200 hrs (8 to 9 days) to print 9000 beads on my single Voron 3D printer (costs $600 to build) - this is actual print slicing calculation. Estimated with beads having an 8mm diameter and a 1.6mm hole. There is zero plastic waste, and total labour cost is about 45 minutes - 5 minutes to clean the print plate once daily for 9 times.

[@Souurcer]

13:59 Did you really want to print this comb in this orientation...? I think if you set it lying down you could get down to 20 minutes of printing or even less.

[@3sotErik]

I'm not doubting that both have their pros and cons but I don't think you really give a fair comparison. 1. Nobody would print a comb standing on end the way you had it. Having it lay down would make it faster & stronger. 2. 100% infill does not add strength. See CNC Kitchens testing. 3. Print farms can be mostly unmanned. With automation the printers can be mounted at a 45° or greater angle. When the print finishes, it cools & releases from the bed, falling into a catch bin. The print head swees the bed to ensure the part fell into the bin & then continues to print the next part. This continues until it is out of filament. You can also use 5kg spools to do more without human labor. If injection is your thing, then great. You do you, but you did put up a rather flimsy strawman.

[@1RVDB]

Yep, and I see print farms getting into the bambulab printers I stead of the prusa. So the are also faster.

[@mr.hardstone]

I have 3 3d printers (2 fdm, 1 resin) and run a small 3d printing service and I adore 3d printing, but 100% they're just not practical or appropriate for a lot of tasks. I'd never consider printing a comb because regardless of resin or filament or infill used it just won't have the structural integrity to be useful, especially for the long term compared to an injection moulded one, and especially compared to one which can be endlessly recycled.

[@yeroca]

I think the orientation used for the comb printing is pretty "wrong". The tines should be printed horizontally to give them strength. A bit a cleanup is needed on the bottom side to remove support material, though. That said, I haven't actually tried printing a comb.

[@BlakJak206]

I say this every time I see someone review a product that was made using a 3D printer: 3D printers are great for prototyping and iterating on an initial design, but should not be used for a finished product. The layer lines look awful and injection molded parts are just higher quality. If I'm spending my hard earned money on a product, I want it to look and feel nice. You just can't do that with a 3D printer without lots of post processing work.

[@DH-cg6qx]

I'm currently in the process of making molds for glasses frames. I used my 3d printer to print the items and now I'm about to create the molds using the 3d printed frames so I can make Epoxy resin final frames. I would love the equipment to do injection molds in the future it just looks really fun to me.

[@AndrewAhlfield]

Love that you're taking an honest look at both the strengths and weaknesses of the two methods!

[@SirSpence99]

Funnily enough, this is one of the most dishonest comparisons I've ever seen.

[@tin_foil_hat99]

Hi Brothers make! I've been a subscriber for ages. I've been working on a machine for the past 3 years that anyone with a small shed and limited tools can make (for very low cost out of salvaged parts). I'm working on making fully recycled 3d printer filament from common house hold plastic. I've also seen that some people have been adding pellet extruders on their printers to avoid filament all together (as pellets would be wayyy easier to make). Love your vids, keep it up (:

[@GodzHarleyGirlStudio]

*LOVE THE COMB MIC HOLDER* 😂❤ I love your way better. The point is *recycling* so this is the best way to produce them for y’all. Love your channel and what you stand for! Keep it up! Hugz, Tree

[@TheQwuilleran]

It's a classic! 🗣🎶🎙

[@AdamPNelson]

Don't forget the automatic open-close cycle of a typical cnc injection mold machine. What's being shown here is a job shop/hobbies injection mold process. Not one meant for production volumes.

[@yatyas72]

BRAVO!! First time to your channel. I've done injection molding for 25 years and have come to the same conclusion. I'm sure someone had already beat me to it but Slant3d really pushes the 3d print farm but in scale and quality you cannot even compare the two. Great job! You have a new subscriber. BTW- I do love my 3d printers but use them mainly for custom and one offs

[@arkomustasin141]

I have a lot to ask . Where do you get those molds from? How do you give the melted plastic a particular colour? And where did you get the machine that injects the plastic in to the mold ?

[@hairyballbastic8943]

you should make some kind of punch/cleave that fits the exact shape of the beads after taking them out of the mould, so all you'd have to do to get off the ring that holds them and the excess is push down on it with a lever or something similar

[@Roobotics]

This isnt even a quantity vs quantity problem, injection molding makes solid seamless parts that have a very good quality hand-feel, 3D printing just doesn't hold up to that or the structural strength of a 1-shot part. 3D printing is a compromise on all these, in order to do it at home for cheap. On the other hand, we have things like 'fuzzy skin' to help hide layers now, textured build plates. And the ability to print hollow or dense selectively.

[@elitewolverine]

If you print the comb laying down, I can safely say the strength of that comb on a 3d print is the same strength or super close to it, using similar materials.

[@SirSpence99]

You should try holding a 3d printed object that was printed with said "fuzzy skin". It has a much, much nicer feel than any injection molded part. Night and day difference. And yes, it does completely get rid of seams and layers.

[@Roobotics]

@@SirSpence99 I mentioned fuzzy skin at the end of my prior comment. It really depends on what the part is. I kinda think the majority of beads are desired to be smooth and not fuzzy textured though, but it probably has its uses there as well.

[@drawninthefog]

I also think a good answer to the question is: this is what you like doing. If you enjoy making this way and like the finished result, keep doing what you’re doing

[@amadensor]

I am using 3D printing for prototyping. The final will be injection molded or nylon SLS printed depending on volume.

[@luxiolooma]

I love this video. You nailed it when you said that they're both good for specific things. Also did you know that you CAN recycle filament scrap? Ive been doing it recently because of your videos!

[@manafount2600]

This was a really cool intro into the process of Injection Molding at smaller scales - you've earned a new sub from me! From the 3D printing side, the look/feel/durability of things like device enclosures for smaller batch products has been on my mind a lot. Injection molding is something I'd always written off as far too expensive when selling a device that costs ~30-100 USD and where the margin is only $10-30 after COGS is accounted for. When you're printing for yourself it's easy to justify spending the extra time and money to get things perfect and post-process prints, but it's harder to justify when one extra hour of labor on an individual item almost/entirely erases your per-unit profits. I'll have to take a closer look at the Injection Mini after this, or maybe slide into your inbox for a quote 😊 PS - As much as the 3D printer in me wants to nitpick little things, I see you've already got 493 comments here doing exactly that, so I'll spare you. Tediously roleplaying every possible argument for or against one manufacturing method doesn't make for a very watchable video, so I'm glad you kept it light-hearted 👍

[@AlishaN-yh5nf]

Loved the brake down and the recycling side of it❤ 3d printing is good for prototypes and 1 off's ❤ grait brake down

[@brandonbeasley4601]

Cool video. I didn't know injection molding was as accessible as you're saying it is. If I ever make a hit design and need to make lots of something it's good to know

[@woodwaker1]

Good video. I have been in 3D printing for 5 years and agree with your results. I rarely print over 5 or 10 copies of something. This is my hobby and I enjoy testing different designs, so for me this is the way to go. I can see a design and be running it in 5 or 10 minutes.

[@DaveGDesigns]

That’s a really cool video and I think the one thing you missed is that aesthetically the moulded ones look and probably feel way better too. On saying that I have another user for the beads I printed my own and use them on the drawstring in sweat shorts as I find every time they go in the wash they end up pulled into the waistband. Keep doing your thing boys as always super proud of you ❤️

[@BadgerBishop]

Figure eight knits are great for holding ghings from slipping through a hole, they have more bulk than standard overhand/granny knots. The curtain turned out great!

[@3d1e00]

It's also really important to think of failure modes. Delamination can be gradual and also prone to material detachment, maybe even dangerous for lungs when fillers are used. Always think of how things will fail if you are selling them.

[@ironoreiron]

The bambu lab a1 mini is actually better than the prusa mk4, surprising, but true

[@avocadoarms358]

We all worry about shrinkage…

[@_technomo]

As a new viewer, it wasn’t a pleasant experience having over 1/3 of the video being wasted on watching beads… 4:17 - 10:35 completely unnecessary. Not tryna be a negative nancy, just honest thoughts. Please stay focused on the title of the video.

[@PrivateKero]

My biggest question is, where do you get your moulds from? How expensive is it? Without the moulds, the whole thing keeps me from doing it. Without the moulds, I have the impression that you have to do a lot of manual work afterwards, which I don't have most of the equipment for.

[@Jack-ny7kn]

3d printing in all of its forms is for prototypes, oneoffs, and low volume batches. MJF and or SLS is probably what would lend itself most easily to your application, and might even be relatively cost competitive for your smaller parts like those beads, but is definitely far from recycled lol. Something you guys might like though is making resin printed injection mold tooling for second stage prototyping and low volume batches for limited editions. So that kind of workflow might look like this: first stage prototypes on desktop FDM printer, second stage prototype from an MJF machine, third stage prototype from resin printed injection mold tooling. FDM prototypes are virtually free so you can make as many as you need to get the look and feel you're after. MJF is relatively inexpensive, and the mechanical properties are going to be very close to what you're injection molding, so you'll get a really good idea how the actual article would function in real world use, so you could use those for destructive testing and simulating wear. There are even flexibles that closely mimic rubber. Then your resin printed mold tooling will test the final dimensions, draft angles, venting, ejection pin locations, etc. If you don't have any issues with the resin tooling then you can be a lot more confident in investing in CNC tooling. Resin tooling is also really good for injection molded silicone. Since there's no heat involved, and the silicone is so soft, those can actually last a long time. Like a tool you print with a 100 dollar bottle of resin might last as long as the iteration of the part it's making and save you thousands.

[@CarolinaPieperUhlig]

Loved the video! If you can do it, i would like to see some project recycling transparent plastic, maybe on its on or maybe some marbeling with colorful plastic.

[@cavinrauch]

Lol for a person with a 3D printer and been into printing since 2017, you guys are where it's at for production and part strength period.

[@guycullum3927]

I think this is a great video, I would say you have missed out a way of batching on the 3D printer. You have a much larger print area on a 3D printer. You could print across the whole bed of the printer and then with very small infill between layers print another layer of 3D prints as the printers can print in 3D where as the injection mold is set in one axis. There is the other issue that a awful lot of waste material is created for each mold due to the plastic channels. This is also created in part on the 3D printer but can be dramatically reduced compared to the mold, in the case of the beads. Still a great video and an area of work I had not realised that had become so affordable to enter

[@henniehamman5778]

Loved the video. For hobbyists, injection moulding is too expensive unfortunately. But how you guys explained, 👍

[@pepsastomna7758]

What about the molds ? Aren't they super expensive ?

[@gotmilkbutt]

Yeah but imagine you just needed one thing.

[@mrnlce7939]

I wonder how how 3d printed resin moulds hold up to the injection moulding you are doing. Great video. Keep up the good work.

[@jimmysusilo1484]

i'm curious about how much does one mold cost and how long does it take to make from CNC machine, i think it's safe to say you need at least 4-5 mold for each time you inject plastic inside and wait for it to cool down before your take it out and re-use the same mold again.

[@Brando68933]

Never injected molded before, but I want to, now! 😅

[@MattHashTwo]

Great video, first time finding you and the injection moulding looks great. I am surprised you haven't had a letter about the name Loops, even if they're a diff product....

[@simongeorgelawrence]

I have been 3d printing for almost 8 years now and I've always been conscious about the wastage, I have been experimenting with making plastic sheets from the waste but am curious about whether the mini injection machine could use waste pla from a printer such as bambu labs "filament poops" and use these to make small injection moulded parts without the need for a grinding machine? Would you be able to test at all?

[@AndrewAhlfield]

So fun! Didn't know that those beaded doorways had a purpose!

[@eugenetswong]

Brothers, fly curtains is a clever use of recycled plastic! Congratulations! I wonder if there is a market for beaded window curtains. The idea is that they would function as sheer curtains, letting in a bit of light.

[@Jynxx_13]

You forgot to add the 3d printing time, the shredding time, and the sifting and sorting time to get the plastic to use in the injection molding machine.

[@JeffDM]

I think the 5 money units per kilo cited for buying recycled pellets factors all that in. He mentioned that at 11:50

[@FlintStone-c3s]

You can buy injection molding pellets, about 10 times cheaper than filament.

[@JeffDM]

@@FlintStone-c3s in very large quantities yes.

[@survival_man7746]

​@@JeffDMhe compared a setup of 6 machines so I think that's enough to be able to go past most manufacturer's MOQ

[@thoperSought]

it looked like from the slicer that you printed your comb standing up??

[@notreal1545]

Yeah in a fashion that would make the comb shitty and easily breakable. Like horizontal orientation would be superior in both print time and strength.

[@AndreYoshinoriOta]

they lost my interest when i saw that, a comb could be easily printed in 15 minutes in a horizontal orientation...

[@thoperSought]

I do think that their _conclusion_ is true, in a very general way-but it depends very much on what you're doing, and correctly designing for the process you're using. this video really showed that they don't get 3d printing as a process, and how it could best compete with injection molding.

[@asmith8673]

I noticed in you example of 3D printing your comb, you had in set vertically. It would print much faster laid flat, plus the teeth would be stronger. Also, did you setup multiple combs per print? Obviously injection molding is optimal for the combs; better strength, and faster overall, but I don't think you gave 3D printing it's absolute best potential.

[@jeremy32428]

But how long does it take to make a mold for the injection machine?

[@phritz20]

Bring them all together ;) You can start collecting aluminum cans too and sand cast your own injection molds… using a 3d printer to make the model for the sand casting… then injection for mass production

[@nickisajev9281]

You made some good points, but a more fair comparison would be: to use not a ready made machine like prusa or bambu, which are not used by big proffessional farms (except for prusa obviously), but diy machines that are cheap, replicatable and easy to repair. A good diy option could cost up to 400 EUR for a bare minimum machine printing in pla or petg. And you would not need it to print fast. Additionally, throw a custom gcode in the mix for releasing parts, so as soon the print is finished, the printer yanks the part in a front tray as to eliminate human interaction to release prints. Then the print sequence would start again until you have the desired amount of prints. Second, that would also mean your 3d files must be made in a way as to allow easy release of parts by the printhead. That would mean printing 1 bead at a time, but continuously for three days - no supports, no brim. You correctly mentioned that 3d printing allows you to make things that cannot be possible with other means of manufacturing. And this is a bonus many do not use i.e. everyone tries to print parts that are hard to print but easy to injection mold thus many use supports, are flimsy and just bad. A combination of those two points would reduce the cost of the print farm substancially and eliminate any post work. Now, that would still give you a subpar result comparing to a molded bead and less color variation options, but it would definetily lower the price of the print farm. However, with 3d printing you can also add various textures on the fly. Grainy, wavy etc. For injection molded parts you would need a new mold and afaik molds are a bit limited in terms of textures unless you shill a lot of money for it to be made on specialized cnc machines. I may be wrong on this one. Additionally , it would be fair to assume that a print farm would need more space to operate. So that is an expense, especially if you need to heat the premises. That should also be thrown in the mix. You cant squeeze many printers in a small workshop. On the other hand, a big space could also mean that a conpany could invest in a filament maker and recycle filaments in the house. And lets be real , 20 pounds per filament roll is a retail price. For a business, you could easily go dirt cheap if buying in bulk if we are talking about 1 color, especially when you buy 3kg rolls. I mean, i buy my filament in single color pla for 10 euros if i buy 10 rolls or smth. A big business can do lower, say 6-8 eur.

[@GeekRedux]

You could speed up the 3D print quite a lot by printing it flat on the bed, 0% infill, and enough walls to fill in the difference. Also, comes don't need fine detail, so you could use a 0.6 or 0.8 nozzle instead of the standard 0.4. Still won't approach the injection molding speeds, but will be a lot faster for prototyping.

[@genjitsu7448]

Awesome video! Super solid info and very informative for sure. Like all things, the devil lives in the details and injection molding is a process full of gremlins! that said, it is just about how everything you have or see around you have been made! A miracle of modern technology for sure. This technology has come so far so fast and we are all so lucky to have access to it. I for one never thought it would get as good as it has, i was way wrong. When I was a college grad. as a mechanical engineer about 25 years ago (geez) we used to drool at these parts made by SLA - a very fragile, mega expensive, time consuming process. What we would pay thousands of dollars for and wait weeks and weeks to get you can print in your bedroom for a few hundred bucks... and that includes that printer!

[@antronk]

Is there a specific reason to always mix colour grind? Is the the resulting marble pattern an aesthetic choice? I wonder that because I think I would prefer solid colours :)

[@jimjones7980]

Do you have a CNC machine to make your own molds or do you design your molds in CAD software and then have another provider make molds for you from them?

[@Unownerdead]

I saw a KZbin video somewhere that was able to spin filament out of PETE bottles by thinly slicing the bottle as it rotated. Could be a good way to get recycled filament for certain 3d prints, although I don't think PETE is generally as good for printing as PLA or ABS.

[@pearceburns2787]

Okay, I think the main difference between these is that injection moulding is a specialised process, whereas 3D printing is a jack-of-all-trades (master of none). If I wanted to create a new item, like a new keychain charm, and I owned a 3D printer, I could design it in CAD/Blender have it by End of day. Whereas for injection moulding you need to machine the mould before you can start production, and you need to mass produce it to make it worth the cost of producing the mould.

[@bearnaff9387]

Adapting @ShaketheFuture's "Print Wave Metal Casting" technique, where he 3D prints a negative of a mold with 0% infill and then converts it into a metal-casting mold, seems like a way to marry your 3D printer and injection molding machine into a combo system with most of the flexibility of a 3D printer and the scale production of injection molding. I would love to see you guys try and experiment with DIY poured injection molds using 3D printed framing. IF it can be done and can produce even passable-quality parts in quantities of 50 or so before needing to retire the mold, you will have seriously changed the game in small-run production.

[@Obot1121]

I have been wondering, how do you guys clean the shredder between colors? Or do you just let a few shreds mix in?

[@meadowsz5390]

How many large injectors would it take to make something large like a stool/small chair?

[@BrickBrickProductions]

How did you manege to fix the shrinkage of the home made injection molder problem?

[@blu_indi9333]

I've worked in injection molding for 25 yrs. I bought my 1st 3D printer 3 weeks ago. Injection Molding is far superior but 3D printing allows me to make parts, tools, toys, etc. that are unique and useful for me in my home workshop. If I was a maker selling product made of plastic, I would go with IMMs.

[@simonheath2868]

if you used a resin printer it would be quicker because you can put more on the build plate and it doesn't change the speed

[@JeffDM]

But their concern involves sustainability and recyclability. Resin isn't recyclable, it can't be melted and reformed into new parts.

[@WildmanPCC]

Could a resin printer produce a mold strong enough to injection mold? Assuming external bracing.

[@Kori-ko]

As someone who has actual buckets of 3D printing waste I've been accumulating since 2016, I'm always looking for ways to both optimize cost and optimize material usage in a way that makes sense. This channel has always been insanely helpful for figuring out what to do with all of it. Anyone saying 3D printing is better is clearly just misinformed about strengths and weaknesses of various fabrication techniques.

[@revodrvr]

How much would you have to charge for that curtain to cover materials and labor. Once a 3d printer is printing one person can manage 20+

[@nedlyest]

Combo idea. 3d print your mold. Then make a box that can hold the mold for the injection mold. Then use clay or porcelain to clone the plastic mold and the set into the injection box.

[@ModelsExInferis]

Aren't the people saying 3D printers are better completely missing the point? Have they just watched about 3 minutes of your content? It makes no sense! For me, as a model maker, a 3D printer is perfect as I can print out XYZ for a project whenever I need it, with the added bonus that I can use the waste plastic on scratch-builds! You've no idea the stuff I've got stored up in boxes and bags just waiting to be used. I've trained my Mum really well and she'll now ask me if I can use something before committing it to the recycling bin! "Why yes Mother, that old thingy will make an excellent rocket ship engine, I shall put it the metric ton of other crap I have!" 🤣 I've been meaning to leave a comment for a while actually, just saying how nice it wad to meet you two at Makers Central in May! My Mum was incredibly impressed by the glasses and just your general commitment to help keep plastic waste to a minimum. I know you were very busy, but I appreciate the time you took to talk to us, so thanks for that! It'd be amazing if you could be on stage next year. I'm sure many people would be interested in hearing all about what you do and how you do it. Maybe have a word with Nick Zammeti on the How To app? Anyway, just wanted to say that. ☺ And yes, it was Mathew Kelly! Absolute legend! Used to watch him on kids TV back in the 80's. That dates me! Take it easy guys!

[@MrBooth1974]

There are a lot of items you could never make with injection molding that you can 3D print. Plus there are industrial SLA printers that are now matching injection speed and cost.

[@HamiltonDilbeck]

Awesome video, guys! Really enjoyed this one!

[@angelacarter6593]

I currently work in a plastics factory and the flies are a constant. I think maybe they are attracted to the smell or something. Everytime I work in plant 2 I sweep a hundred dead flies off the floor. The next week it looks like I never did a thing. It’s so creepy.

[@DarrylAdams]

Someine else may have mention the cost if milling the moulds but how much would ut codt you? Also have younlooked st a vulcanused rubber moulding systems like Siocast?

[@jasongooden917]

You could use the discarded supports from the 3D printers or the injection moulding machine

[@dylanhuntington8187]

I work in plastic injection molding actually and yes it is great for making alot of the same part quickly, and efficiently but being able to make multiple things in a small space is also great maybe time consuming and there are ways to recycle waste

[@joshtaylor6245]

i'm not sure if you guys are aware but there is a few videos that you can make your own injection molds out of 3-D printed parts instead of having to go with aluminum molds much cheaper

[@nanettesage1112]

For mass production, injection moulding will always be better but for small runs (10 of something) of many many products which one is better?

[@deviceu]

Thank you for sharing, very clear an entertaining.

[@tatkkyo9911]

I like both. I want to eventually made an injection machine so I can recycle my supports into useful things

[@FedericoPorta]

If you 3d print the comb laying down on the build plate it would take a lot less time and it would be more resistant

[@oleurgast730]

Actually there are ceramic filled resins intended to print molds for low number batches (like a few hundreds of injected parts). With a price about 250€/liter this might be an alternative to aluminium molds if you want just a few hundreds of pieces. Still you get all the advantages of injection molding. On the other hand prototyping for injection molding is not always easy to do. The object has to be able to be released without much efford. Complex geometrys are not easy to do or maybe even impossible with injection molding. However, if the geometry of the object allows injection molding and you need a bigger number of the same part, injection molding is the way to go. It is not 3d printing or injection molding. Always use the method best for the special project you want to do. And also consider a CNC mil and searching for an industrial mass produced product you can simply take for a start and modify it with some milling... Having all 3 technologys available gives you much more power to do everything you want. It was quite nice to see the prices for small injection molding machines have come down quite a lot. It´s in the price range for hobbyists now. Still, while of course an air-compressor is the professional way to do it: Would it be possible to use a long lever instead to press the molded plastic in? For a hobbyist at home an air-compressor might cause problems with neighbours...

[@Peter-DOC-Docter]

HOWEVER you doing the work or letting the printer do the work, while you do other work, makes it a lot of difference and is key here! Besides that there is a big cost to making the molds, something you don't have to worry about with 3d printing. And you can make way more products if you print stacked, and since you don't work day and night, well your printer will just keep going!

[@IraQNid]

A UV bug trap will solve the fly issue fast. Bug zappers can cause insect body parts to be strewn across a wide area as their bodies explode in the zapper. Another way to keep them out is to use a high speed blower placed at the top of the doorway. This will create an air curtain they can get through. Effective against flying and many crawling bugs.

[@razvantoteu1451]

Why would you 3d print the comb standing up and not laying on the bed ? Wouldn't it be stronger if it had the hairs done in a single line then stacked ?