Is This Solid State Battery Too Late?

Solid State Batteries - Revisited. Get Surfshark VPN at surfshark.deals/undecided and enter promo code UNDECIDED for 83% off and 3 extra months for free! Solid state batteries have been hyped for years as a silver bullet for making EVs mainstream, improving consumer electronics, and ... well ... everything. It’s 2022 and they still aren’t here in any meaningful way, but there have been interesting advancements that are worth exploring. However, with several other battery technologies popping up offering similar or better energy density, lifespan, safety, and costs, (all of which are solid state batteries’ big sales pitch) is solid state still the future of energy storage tech? Let’s see if we can come to a decision on this.
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[@UndecidedMF]

Do you think solid state batteries are the future of energy storage and EVs? Get Surfshark VPN at surfshark.deals/undecided and enter promo code UNDECIDED for 83% off and 3 extra months for free! If you liked this video, check out Forget Small ... What About Micro Nuclear Energy? kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqm7nXdqmpKqiqc

[@dertythegrower]

Thank you for the next level reporting, Mr. Ferrell.

[@cp37373]

@@dertythegrower lmfao

[@dertythegrower]

@@cp37373 Liking your own comments... pretend smart guy? 🤐

[@dertythegrower]

@@cp37373 Your two comments prove you act smart but fail to understand innovative research..

[@DevinHeida]

I just got commented by someone claiming to be you and giving me a whatsapp number.

[@theharbinger2573]

Personally I am a big believer in research, just for science. You can't predict what might pop up, or if research in one battery may be the a ha moment for a researcher on another battery or even in another field. That is also the risk with corporate driven research, so many battery ideas are likely to be dropped in favor of the one that promise the most profit. I hope at least the research gets published and not stashed away in a companies IP drawer.

[@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596]

Absolutely 🙋🏼‍♀️ here are four areas where I think scientific progress will bring an end to fossil fuels and anthropogenic climate change. 1. Vastly cheaper renewable energy sources. Solar panels and wind turbines are cheaper than fossil fuels. Furthermore their energy production level compared to surface area is constantly increasing. Battery storage facilities and battery capacity has been increasing whilst the costs of the batteries has been decreasing. There's also hydrogen storage and hydroelectric storage systems. 2. Geothermal energy plants. Development of laser drilling has made it possible to build geothermal energy plants anyway and will bring the cost of building one in line with the cost of a conventional coal fired power plant. Furthermore, this technology allows the conversion of current fossil fuel fired power plants to geothermal energy plants. 3. Synthetic food. I believe that the vast majority of food in the future will be produced via synthetic means. From cultures grown from genetically modified organisms and 3D printing. Farming and farm land will become redundant. This could potentially free up enough land to plant well over a trillion trees, if not up to two trillion trees. Enough to absorb hundreds of billions of tonnes of carbon dioxide and clean the air. 4. Electric and hydrogen vehicles with solar panels. With the capacity of solar panels increasing and the weight of cars decreasing, it will be possible to extend the range of electric cars and other vehicles. For heavy duty vehicles, such as buses, aeroplanes, ships, and lorries I think a combination of hydrogen fuel cells and solar panels will be the way forward.

[@krakhedd]

If we don't ask, how will we ever know? Let alone, did people have any clue that mechanical computers might be more useful in certain use cases than their digitized counterparts?

[@kaltkalt2083]

Unfortunately research is extremely expensive. Especially these days, everything knowable without expensive equipment and facilities is already known.

[@RichardKincses]

You also have to consider that companies doesnt want big breaktroughs, just gradual increase of their products capacity. They can milk the market by gradually releasing better and better products instead of doing a drastic increase then stall for years with developement.

[@kaltkalt2083]

@@RichardKincses this theory never made sense to me. Any company would rather have a huge breakthrough now than a gradual increases in performance of existing technologies. It’s just that everything simple that can be discovered has already been discovered, so any huge breakthrough would require a ton of $ and resources. Only huge companies (including universities) and governments have the money to make a new scientific breakthrough. I’m talking about a truly new discovery. A room temperature superconductor is a great example. Don’t tell me Superconductors, Inc. would rather increase the temperatures required for their new superconductor 10° every year (until they get to a room temperature superconductor) than discover and sell a room temperature superconductor today.

[@malnorice]

personally, i think the abundance of technologies is good on its own, as competing technologies increase overall supply. Even if one battery is slightly worse, it still works. Like, when solid state batteries do hit the market, even if they are only in ~5% of EVs, that still means without them there would just be the added demand from the people without those vehicles.

[@Dayanto]

Depends on the materials used. If there is a lithium shortage, putting more lithium batteries on the market won't help with supply. (especially not if they use more lithium)

[@joz534]

I would be worried about cycle fo chasing this new improved technology while old solutions still work. For example throwing away working ICE cars to get a new Electric.

[@guesswho2778]

@@joz534 i feel like electric is the way to go anyway with these rising fuel prices. we just need more power sources that arent coal or gas to keep electricity prices down.

[@Distress.]

@@guesswho2778 yeah but there are people trading in gas cars that have years of life left to save money when they won't break even for another decade.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

@@joz534 there are plenty of companies working on kits for retrofitting ICE vehicles. It doesn't take long to break even with the footprint of an EV vs ICE car. Unless you're going to total your car in an accident, or you barely drive at all, it's always better to get an EV.

[@Breakfast__Burrito]

I've worked on solid state batteries for an automotive OEM. The amount of work that went into testing and proving solid state batteries for mass production has been immense. The fact that we have major OEMs publicly announcing strategies for adoption within 2 years shows how far along they are. It can't really be compared to new developments just coming out of labs, as they are at least a decade away from being implemented in EVs.

[@bogususer2595]

So we have to wait two years to see any products using SS batteries? You would think if they were anywhere near ready we'd be seeing their use in smaller applications like phones or watches.

[@williammeek4078]

Sure, and they have been a couple of years away for a decade now. And probably will still be a decade from now.

[@RockSolitude]

You of all people should know what the deal is with those types of announcements which are made purely for PR and government program purposes. More to the point, you of all people should have some skepticism and know not to naively believe it.

[@nigratruo]

What I miss here is an explaination of the problems and shortcomings: Why is it taking so long? Why is the deadline slipping further and further into the future? There are obviously problems and fallbacks when new problems surface, but what are these? Why don't we see solid state batteries used anywhere?

[@roborovsky6950]

@@nigratruo While that may be the case, making or adapting factories for mass production for this cells takes a really long time. New materials needs new sources. And then comes the production line that needs time to be configured in an efficent way and also more time to be built for mass production.

[@adamlytle2615]

One factor I'd like to learn more about for all of these upcoming technologies is recyclability. If a solid state battery can have it's component materials separated relatively easily at the end of it's life, that relatively low charge cycle number becomes less of an issue. But if they end up being even more difficult and costly to recycle at end of life than more conventional batteries, then that would be another significant drawback.

[@MexcTech1]

I totally agree with you. With more and more battery produce we need a way to recycle them. If we cant the tech become useless for the environnement.

[@adamlytle2615]

@@MexcTech1 the recycling tech is already getting started for conventional Li-ion, so I'm fairly optimistic there. I just hope recyclability is being factored into SS design from the start.

[@adamlytle2615]

@@rogerstarkey5390 I try to be nice on here but holy shit are you ever an asshole. You must have to spend a lot of time policing people's "sub par" comments. Perhaps there are better ways of spending your time?

[@DuringDark]

​@@rogerstarkey5390 well, for one you don't need to be an asshole. But also, the point of the question was would you *need* to mine new material for SSBs? What if they recycle better than Li-ion because they're safer, easier to mechanically reclaim, and don't need to be recycled as often since they last longer? What if the opposites are true and no one will recycle them? Ultimately, more performant batteries will be productised regardless of whether they're highly recyclable, so we just have to hope they are.

[@egroegknimmij3169]

@@DuringDark agreed about @Roger Starkey, after I just OKed the 3 guidelines of this channel…. For one thing: exactly this matter of recycling is missing in the video. Costs, density etc I am fine with. But if EV’s will be adopted at a global scale, I was always concerned what will happen with the batteries after the car is ready for deconstruction (at the end of its lifespan). E.g. phones and batteries are already dumped in Africa. EV should also be a synonym for environment, circular usage etc. Typed in NL. Greetings.

[@tomk4199]

It does seem pretty clear that we need all of these technologies moving ahead at whatever speed they can. And that there isn't just one holy grail.

[@39rbn61]

This is the best way to summarize it

[@PhaythGaming]

I don’t really think it can ever be too late. Research in better batteries in general is good, so I wouldn’t worry too much about whether or not this is the silver bullet. We’re too early in the research and adoption of these batteries to pick one as “the best” (long term, not at our current research level)

[@kamilpotato3764]

Think the one we need most is the one that is most environmental friendly in production and easily, cheaply recyclable.

[@PhaythGaming]

@@kamilpotato3764 right but we don’t know which one that is, so it kind of means nothing.

[@GonzoDonzo]

@@kamilpotato3764 solid state can improve in those areas if they simply reach the duty cycles they can be capable of. Even if they only reach a fraction of the potential its still many times greater then traditional batteries. They could reach into the millions of cycles versus thousands we have now. So one battery could last hundreds of years theoretically

[@michaelbrinks8089]

Maybe we'll get solid state batteries in our flying cars that have been "just around the corner" since the 1960's.

[@PhaythGaming]

@Dan G. Smithright. Your point?

[@MonsterSound]

12:57 "... still something to keep an ion." 🤣 I see what you did there.

[@eirinym]

The thing to remember is that each time these avenues of technology are explored in the lab, the more things are discovered like this sulphur breakthrough. You could conceive of some sulphur infused solid state battery that gets even better performance than both. And yes, this thought is just a 'for instance', not based on my research. But the point is that tons of research leads to more possibilities. The one really important aspect of solid state batteries is to hopefully get to a point where you don't have degredations due to the interaction of components like the electrolyte and dendrite formation. Batteries that can be cycled without degredation is really good news for the environment if possible. Then you're not constantly sourcing the elements needed to replace them, and all the waste that is associated with that.

[@makatron]

Once the tech proves a bellow 10% degradation after 4,000 cycles and dropping the fast charging times to way bellow 30 minutes the whole industry will ditch the ICE in favor of EV. Maybe semi trucks will still be diesel but beyond that hopefully we're within a decade of that.

[@kindlin]

@@makatron I hope it doesn't take that level of technological advancement to have everyone start hoping on the EV bandwagon, but yes, if your stated values were in the real world right now, people would be running from ICE vehicles.

[@makatron]

@@kindlin right now it's a matter of price barrier but as Ford has proven it can match pricing with EV and ICE versions of F-150.

[@ryguy9876]

@@kindlin It will. Mass adoption of new technology requires it to be WAY better than what came before, especially if you're talking about something that will require massive infrastructure projects and the replacement of millions of instances, and this especially holds true in an economy where the average person is barely holding on above the poverty line as is.

[@anydaynow01]

@@kindlin The high gas prices has people somewhat heading in that direction, wait lists for new BEVs range from months to years and trying to find a reasonably priced used BEV or PHEV is a lesson in futility, even old regular used hybrids are way overpriced. It seems manufacturers can't make EVs fast enough, mostly due to supply issues with batteries.

[@Private-GtngxNMBKvYzXyPq]

In the long term, two of the most important considerations are availability of materials (safely, justly) and end of use recycling or disposal. Battery tech should help us leave our planet better than we inherited it, not something that makes our environment more toxic. Solid state batteries may help with this goal. But some of the other new battery technologies might as well.

[@makatron]

A less toxic chemistry needs to become mainstream.

[@JMcMillen]

All the battery powered cars in the world won't be going anywhere without a vastly improved electrical infrastructure for people to charge their cars. Home charging could run into issues if too many people in a neighborhood all try to charge their cars at the same time. What about the millions that live in apartments and can't always park anywhere near where they live? Is every apartment complex prepared to install charging stations all over their properties parking lots? Or worse, urban apartments where people have to park on the street. Even if you only have to charge the car once a week, you still need a convenient place to do that.

[@Private-GtngxNMBKvYzXyPq]

We can drill in the oceans, the arctic, and fracking everywhere, put pipelines across continents, float tankers, and build filling stations - all for vehicles that run on dinosaur goo. We can run zillions of air conditioners and everything else. But somehow upgrading electrical infrastructure becomes a roadblock specifically when it comes to electric vehicles? Pish tosh. We can resolve the power grid and last mile issues, and we must, because the consequences of not doing pose an existential threat.

[@makatron]

@@JMcMillen in my case I'm getting a 8.5kw solar installed this year. But yeah if it becomes a once a week thing I'm sure infrastructure will catch up and we still have a good 10 to 15 years for EV to be over 50% new car sales.

[@JMcMillen]

@@Private-GtngxNMBKvYzXyPq It's not a matter of if we can do it, it's a matter of whether the companies that have to actually do it will spend the money to do all those upgrades or will they drag their feet because they can't find the profit in it. Lord knows that there are places in the US where the power grid already has trouble handling extreme hot/cold weather issues. Now add on millions of EV's trying to charge and it's only going to get worse.

[@joeg3950]

Energy storage and delivery needs to be developed in-depth. One battery type may not be better for everything: a drill vs an auto, etc. It’s interesting to see how this develops.

[@Treekicker]

Competition in a market is always good for advancement anyway.Funnily enough Chinese knockoffs have caused a lot of companies to not stagnate as a result.

[@theproffessional9]

SSB may only be for increased safety, weight savings and simpler setup, the energy density and charging time advantages may be close to nil in just a year or 2 thanks to advancements in traditional batteries like LFP, NMC and NCA.

[@zoroarkzor4925]

Hey Matt, I like how your always talking about stuff. as an chemist i apriciate that a lot, but there is one thing that kinda bothers me which is that I wish you would have a citation in the discription from what sources you've used instead barely show it in the vid itself. Keep up the good work!

[@JanB1605]

I second this. An example would be how Real Engineering does it.

[@dalton6173]

Honestly I prefer people simply learn how to do their own research. It's not 2000 or before when you had to go to a library and hope to find the right book and then request a book from another library. Plus this way you can find different sources to verify the results have been replied or at least verified by multiple sources. Granted this KZbin channel is technically a publication so I do understand the preference form some kind of sources.

[@trueriver1950]

@@dalton6173 while I agree totally with your starting point that ppl should do their own research (and therefore know how to do that), I also agree with the request to have proper citations in the description. That way we can do two things: firstly verify that Matt has correctly represented the research he has used (I am inclined to trust channels more if they are open to that kind of fact check). Secondly when we do our own independent research it is then easy to spot if there's some source that has been overlooked or has been published since a particular video was made. So my hope is for citations plus own individual research. It's not an either/or in my book.

[@MCsCreations]

I don't know about EVs... But for smartphones the solid state batteries would be fantastic.

[@makatron]

A 3 day battery sounds great. But also for earbuds keeping them charged for longer.

[@MCsCreations]

@@makatron Yeap. And without the risk of any of them exploding on you. 😬

[@damaliamarsi2006]

I personally think of solid state as as structure not a chemistry. It seems that the best structure / chemistry has yet to be fleshed out but as different companies bring better and better batteries to market it is the consumer and society that will ultimately benefit.

[@REDSIX]

The battery breakthrough news has me jaded. I'll believe it once it on the market. So solid state is still amazing since it's starting to hit the market

[@makatron]

Yeah, same mate. They make some obscure claims from within a lab that can't be verified and never hear of them again for years. Once it hits actual EVs we'll know it's true.

[@adam872]

Right tool for the job. Absolutely. I think there will need to be a portfolio of energy delivery, storage and battery technologies to fulfil different requirements. Solid state batteries I have little doubt will be part of that.

[@22bendavis]

I love this style of video giving the current state of competing technologies, comparing pros and cons, and covering a topic that's been on all of our minds. While your videos always highlight the fanciful future of things to come, this very practical style really kept me riveted. Now do the same thing with grid scale energy storage please! 😁

[@oM477o]

Who would've thought a battery cell with about 6x the volume would store 6x the energy 😂

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

🤯

[@AnoAssassin]

6 times the power for only 1.16 times the range doesn't seem all that glamorous aye

[@alansmithee419]

That's the thing though, it's not always easy to just make a thing bigger. The scale-up *is* the technological improvement. Making each one bigger allows the manufacturing processes to be done more cheaply, reducing the final cost of the product, even if in terms of storage to volume it doesn't appear that impressive. Storage to cost ratio drops significantly.

[@sethglazier2877]

Yeah that 6x energy statement is misleading. The main take-away is that lots of small benefits of the new cell add up to 16% range improvement, which may not sound great compared to these other technologies, but unlike them, this is on the road and being mass-produced today.

[@RS-jb1lf]

How big is your smart phone to computers from the 70s?

[@nath7874]

Hi there. I really enjoy your methodical approach in bringing the latest technology to the fore. As an African based researcher in solid state battery tech I can honestly say that you are spot on in what you say. We have been working quietly for the past 7 years and are very close to show casing our developments in this field. I cannot divulge too much but have to say that solid state tech is going to burst onto the scene sooner than anticipated from a direction even less expected. A small spoiler for you: Zero thermal buildup during charging. 1 minute charging time. Cheap and easy to produce. Post lithium with no cobalt. I will send you a link as soon as we are ready to go public

[@ScrapKing73]

In the short term, LFP-based lithium ion is exciting. It’s less expensive, safer, and longer-lasting than the other lithium-ion chemistries currently on the market. It’s main downer is lower energy density (meaning size and weight aren’t ideal). But they’re starting to gain energy density improvements with it, and I think LFP may prove to be the way forward in the short-term (now until 2025 at least) over NMC and other technologies currently in use. I predict that LFP will be the thing that solid state, Niobium, etc., are gunning to replace.

[@That80sAstronaut]

Great video as usual, Matt! Just a few of notes since QS is a company I've been following very closely and I think they're on to something great. All these comments obviously assume their publicly released data is legit. Please correct any mistakes. 1) One important aspect of the fast charging claim of 0-80 in 15 min, is that they were able to fast charge every single cycle for 400 cycles and still remained above 90% capacity; that's the equivalent of taking a Model 3 LR and driving it for over 140.000 miles super-charging in 15min every time; this would degrade any current-gen battery very quickly - they previously did sinthetic tests where they fast charged and discharged in 1 hour cycles, so we could even be driving that Model 3 LR at >125mph around a track. This feature, to me, is more important than being able to charge in 5 minutes once in a while; driving with confidence that fast charging/discharging barely harms the battery 2) QS claims their tech is cathode agnostic so it could potentially be combined with lithium-sulfur cathode, so those aren't necessarily competing technologies. 3) Silicon-rich anodes are a great intermediate tech on the way to solid-state, but don't seem to address durability under fast charging, performance under wide temperature range, performance under low pressure, nor safety; QS seems to have addressed all those metrics, but we're waiting for safety testing confirmation (to be done w/ higher layer count) 4) 1000 Wh/L and 350Wh/Kg is what the first generation of cells should be able to achieve; future iterations could go as high as 7x current graphite-anode cell density 5) They've shown that the 16-layer cell did 500 cycles, until that point in time, because cycling continued for weeks/months after that report; this is very important because, if the cell 16-layer cell scales as expected, it will be able to do >800 cycles and retain more than >80% of capacity, which are the automotive performance targets All this to say that there seems to be a lot of juice left on solid-state tech, we just need to wait and see.

[@everettlwilliamsii3740]

I would like to see a video on carbon-carbon technology where both anode and cathode are carbon, in the case I noted, all from cotton fiber. The chemistry still used lithium in the fluid part, but it seems that could be replaced by sodium and/or sulfur, producing high power densities without nickel or cobalt ormanganese. This would reduce both cost and weight. Now in reply to David H. who finds child labor everywhere. With the average age in big parts of Africa and South and Central America being so low, often the only available labor is child-based, regardless of what is being done. The thing to do is to limit hours and work to make sure that education fills in those other hours, especially for girls and women. We are never going to entirely displace child labor. As a child, I worked long hours building houses with my Dad. That did not keep me from earning a degree in Math and CS and having a career as a Senior Systems Programmer working on such R&D projects as one of the earliest SSD's and an early optical disk as well as a source code management project. At one point when I was 18, I put in 144 hours on the clock in one 7-day week. On top of that, I had an hour's driving time to and from work. Almost 60 years later, I am still functioning, if barely, but I have had lots of fun.

[@paulgar8]

I don't think you sufficiently emphasized the difference in difficulty between: 1. A legacy car company press release promising a "glorious future someday" 2. Actually, producing batteries (and cars) at scale TODAY. Yes, I am talking Tesla vs. the world. When the "glorious future someday' gets here, do you really think Tesla will still be producing the 4680s of today?

[@chadcoady9025]

Tesla doesn't produce batteries. Panasonic still makes them FOR Tesla.

[@RockSolitude]

@@chadcoady9025 pointless semantics

[@ThePowerLover]

@@RockSolitude At all.

[@mponyt]

This is like the story of why silicon semiconductors. The winner of Si vs. GaAs is/was Si because improving manufacturing was so successful. It is still early enough for these alternative battery tech now. I was a little disappointed that you didn't discuss Sodium Ion batteries.

[@alexhayden2303]

Refueling stations: Need to be swap old for new (Charged.) Drive in, just like gas station. Insert your card and the battery is extracted and replacd automatically with charged battery. No moret than 5 min's.

[@grandmastarflash]

This guy is awesome he'll literally say anything for views 😄

[@chrisose]

Of course the 4680 cell has 6 times the "power" of the 2170 cells, it is six times the size (technically it is 5.5 times the size). This is like being amazed that a gallon contains 4 times more than a quart.

[@gregkramer5588]

@@rogerstarkey5390 Of course we only trust Elon about 50% of the time. He likely overstated the improvements by quit a bit.

[@5tr41ghtGuy]

Probably takes the same labor to produce a 4680 cell vs. 2170 cell, plus fewer individual cells in a battery pack reduces costs there. I think the 4680 is mostly about cost reduction.

[@chrisose]

@@rogerstarkey5390 Those are the claims, but as of yet these claims have not been independently verified.

[@chrisose]

@@5tr41ghtGuy It is much like the different between buying a soda in a 2 litre bottle instead of a 6-pack of 500ml bottles. You pay more for the additional plastic bottles. Not that Musk will actually deliver these savings to the customer, especially in light of him being in the middle of an employee purge to "save money".

[@saiforos7928]

@@rogerstarkey5390 the marketing about battery day is purposefully misleading. Musk is lying with data, what a crook

[@danielclausmeyer]

12:55 “Thats still something to keep an Ion.” 🥁 💥

[@Mantequilla520]

One of the biggest issues that I have with battery packs, particularly in EVs, is the recycling and safe disposal of them. If we’re all going to be driving EVs in the next 20-30 years that technology is the most important part of the consumer experience for me.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

Lithium ion can be reused and recycled easilly as well. Almost everything can be recycled nowdays.

[@saschamaj]

Battery technology in 20-30 years will likely have advanced to the point were we'll use non-toxic materials such as salts, carbon or other common elements. For the meantime, once mass adoption of EVs is in full swing it will become profitable to recycle on a large scale, especially Lithium, which will become a rare commodity, giving a strong incentive to be recycled. Even the cheap 12V car battery of today has recycling rates of over 90%, so expect a much higher one with Li-Ion batteries. Plus they last a lot longer (around 8-10 years) and can still be used at reduced capacity for other uses (stationary storage) for many more years before needing to be recycled.

[@peterdollins3610]

As a non-technical guy it looks as if we're 3 to 9 years away for the kind of outstanding battery the world needs but 2 to 3 years for a good enough battery to just get by on. If no other amazing breakthrough comes along in the meantime.

[@gregkramer5588]

We already have batteries that are good enough to get by on. Take the Ioniq 5 for example. 250-300 miles range and an 18 minute charge (in good conditions) that adds ~10 miles of range per minute. Of course 90% plus occurs at home anyway. Of course more longevity and faster charging will be very nice. Range is pretty close to a non issue already. Let's face it a 15 minute stop every three hours would be nice for road trips and we are close to that already.

[@1pcfred]

@@gregkramer5588 while you may be happy with the limited range of EVs it is not nearly enough for me. If you're stopping for 15 minutes every 300 miles you're not going to get too far by the end of the day either. Road trips are endurance tests of men and machines. Minutes add up to hours at the end of the journey. Hours you'll wish you were off the road.

[@gregkramer5588]

@@1pcfred So I already stop in fewer miles than that. Who drive 300 miles with out stopping? BTW I drive from TX to MN at least once a year and from TX to Pittsburg every few years. So MN ~1000 miles. If I stop an extra 10 minutes every 250 miles that is 40 minutes but in reality it would more likely be 5 or 6 stops. Since it is advantage's to use the best part of the charge curve. So not hours but maybe an hour! BTW I usually stop to eat a couple times also. I think this is common :-)

[@wirelesmike73]

I believe that weight reduction, safety, fast charging, and recyclability will make solid-state the best choice for mobility. But, the answer to the energy storage problem is 'different technology for different needs'. As you've said before, "There is no _silver bullet_ when it comes to energy storage".

[@makatron]

If the battery with a 600km range and still be under 20% of the weight whilst providing a fast charging times under half an hour, everything will be electric. I'm still hoping for an EV superbike with litre bike performance and 200km range.

[@ericschleppenbach3519]

@12:59 "It's still something to keep an ion" Good one!

[@andrewsteinhaus8267]

Really appreciate the comparisons. Helps put things in perspective. I hope you do more of these!

[@The8BitGuy]

Considering my first EV was a Nissan Leaf back in 2011, and it only went 85 miles on a charge. And these days Tesla's "low end" battery (the Chinese LFP packs) get 267 miles per charge, probably at a fraction of the cost of those early Nissan batteries, I'd say we have already arrived with the technology to achieve mass adoption. And while that's no reason to stop research and advancement, I think people need to stop waiting for the magic battery that may or may not happen, and jump on the bandwagon now.

[@UndecidedMF]

Agreed.

[@todddammit4628]

For middle and upper income people, yes. But for everyone else (who are the majority of drivers), these batteries are still far too expensive, which makes these cars unobtainable for so many people. There are millions of people out there who would love to jump on the bandwagon, but are financially unable to do so.

[@baconpancakes1752]

@@nick_riviera 8 bit guy said 'his' first ev not 'the' first ev.

[@ryguy9876]

The problem with that is that in order for mass adoption to take place, the technology can't just be better, it has to be MUCH better. A really big example of this is the AR-15. The US military has used the AR-15 in various forms since the late 60's and only now got around to adopting a new rifle while most other countries around the world adopted different rifles that were technically better than the AR-15 platform. The reason why is because while those other rifles, like the HK 416, Sig 556, and others, are technically better they were ultimately only marginal improvements and were not worth the effort of replacing millions of perfectly good rifles. It's only now that military grade body armor capable of stopping .223-tier ammunition has become common place that we're seeing the US military make an effort to replace the AR-15 as higher caliber alternatives are now far better than the aging platform. It's going to be a similar deal with EV's. Sure, the wealthy will be early adopters but in order for the common man to bother with them at all and have them replace millions of petrol vehicles, they would need to be both cheaper and get way more mileage than your average ICE car. At the moment, they're merely on par, which is not enough for the average person to bother.

[@scratchy996]

Once you get to the 400km range mark, it's not about the range anymore, it's about the recharge times, which are horrible right now. For mass adoption, you need electric cars that can fully charge as fast as you can fully tank a gas car.

[@quartamile]

I lose track of all the different batteries and their projections that you review over time. Would you consider doing recap vids for those batteries that are now or very soon available to consumers to see if those projections and promises ever came through? Thank you always.

[@jimj2683]

All of them are lies. They give out optimistic promises with optimistic timelines so they can pump their stock prices up and dump it on idiots.

[@KlaudiusL]

In 1799 Alessandro Volta (based on Luigi Galvani's 1780s work), pile up alternating disc of copper and zinc to made the first: pile, battery, cell. 220 years later we still use the same comcept, same idea with new materials. Is like remaking a Ford-T with carbon fiber, aluminium, polycarbonate .. ... but still is a Ford-T We don't need new materials. What we need is a new concept, fresh ideas, not a remade of 220 years battery.

[@valdius85]

Batteries are used in more than just EVs. As long as research is not a complete dead end, there is always new knowledge gained. There is an increasing need for more local or even home electricity storage. Access to these batteries is much easier, so as long as they are recyclable and the price performance is good, there will likely be a market fit for many different solutions.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

Markets tend to gravitate to a single technology eventually because of economies of scale.

[@spacee3249]

In my opinion, most developments in "normal" aqueous batteries can be applied to solid ones, just with slight modification

[@louisvaught2495]

The topology at the cathode and anode doesn't react the same way with a solid-state electrolyte that it does with a liquid electrolyte. Strategies to increase surface area in liquid or gel batteries don't translate to solid-state designs.

[@bridgetshepherd5202]

There is great strength in diversity. The more viable technologies we have, the wider the range of problems we can solve, under ever-increasing material supply and usage constraints.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

Things don't tend to work that way though. Once one technology becomes dominant, economies of scale push the rest out of the market because it becomes so much cheaper the price advantage generally outweighs all other factors.

[@bridgetshepherd5202]

@@baronvonlimbourgh1716 this is reason #1,312,161 that market economies and money should be abolished and we should just do things to meet needs and protect life instead of chasing profit for the wealthy, who conduct themselves with all the tact of a cat asking for food while its dish is already full.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

@@bridgetshepherd5202 preaching to the choir there bridget lol.

[@blakebisson7383]

I'm currently very interested in the Graphene Aluminum Ion battery from GMG. They have some documentation on the testing of the 2032 form factor that you can compare directly with Lithium Manganese rechargeable batteries available today. in that comparison, 200mah each about, they degrade similar in charging rates, but the Graphene battery recharges completely in 3 seconds, compared to the Lithium's 9 minutes. If they work to scale the price they believe they can for the graphene production, then being able to charge your car safely in the time it would take to refill your gas tank (with 600 mile range) could be very attractive to consumers! Also because you wouldn't worry about needing to charge the night before to make the next destination the following day, you would drive your vehicle like you do now with your ICE, stop and refill only when your at a "low tank".

[@Larckov]

It is not late, is never too late. Other people will think of innovative ways to use this batteries, and research. That's the beauty of research as a discipline.

[@AllanSitte]

As a person that lives in a location where extreme cold is an annual expectation, I find it difficult to find any reviews or reports on the effectiveness and lifecycle of any new battery technology under extreme cold conditions. Lithium batteries have issues in extreme cold. It is my hope that solid state batteries can withstand cold environment conditions. Thank you for all you do Matt. Keep up the great research and reporting.

[@kitsunekaze93]

yeah, has to WORK in at least -30°C to +40°C, and preferrably some more safe margins on that

[@mryellow6918]

@@kitsunekaze93 there's it works and there's it's useable too

[@kamilpotato3764]

@@kitsunekaze93 Think the one we need most is the one that is most environmental friendly in production and easily, cheaply recyclable.

[@stiaininbeglan3844]

@@kamilpotato3764 It's all well and fine to be economically friendly, but when your electronics die quickly in the middle of winter and your car dies on the side of the highway in the middle of night and you can't get help because your phone is just about dead, you have no hazard lights, there's hardly any traffic, you're an hour's drive out of any town, and your emergency flashlight and external battery pack straight up don't work because it's too cold...... The cold resistance is still VERY important.

[@stiaininbeglan3844]

They don't seem to test for extreme cold resistance, which is why we have frozen lithium ion batteries every year for 4+ months.

[@tincoandringa4630]

Hey Matt, I heard someone speak about accelerating ocean carbon absorption by pumping up deep water to the surface. Besides capturing more carbon, it would also be cooler, and less acidic, basically catching three birds with one stone. I have no idea about the viability of this, have you done a video on it in the past or is it something you and your team might be interested in diving into? Your videos are great, thanks!

[@dertythegrower]

research methane generators on cow farms, 28x superior than capturing co2. Also Tinco, he does.. sea kelp farming is superior to growing trees for capturing co2, matt talked about this last month buddy. Cheers good stuff.

[@dertythegrower]

interesting..

[@amalgeorge6877]

Sounds terrible to be honest. It will lead to toxic surface level water sinking faster, warmer water mixing with cooler water , creating lesser cool water. Furthermore it seems to be too energy extensive as well. Plus I don't see how it will just magically significantly increase carbon absorption.

[@petermorrison9604]

70% is ocan. Plankton can do the whole job. And I like tp eat fish. So de-acidification is the only way

[@D00D735]

Don’t forget, you can generate electricity with the temperature difference between frigid deep water and warm surface water.

[@ajreed3808]

Great video! You’re short changing QS >800 cycle ambitions a bit (no battery is going to be fast charged 100% of the time), but appreciate the great coverage of the overall landscape!

[@jacobzindel987]

Alaskan here, one of the huge benefits of solid state batteries, which seems to have been completely glossed over here, is the performance in cold weather. Not everyone lives in California. I drive a plug-in hybrid, with an advertised all electric range of 20 miles, when it's below freezing, the range is closer to 2 miles. Too say nothing of the massive life cycle loss from freeze-thaw temperate changes.

[@Lemurai]

I honestly feel like STEM in the US is dead, I got into engineering thinking I would actually be able to change something, but no matter how much you research, finalize and package up a product or process into a neat presentation showing cost effectiveness, ease of production and economic viability long term, no one will bite. Anti-intellectualism is high in the US and rising dangerously, it’s sad that many people are taking their talents overseas.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

Investment costs profit next quarter. Sooooooo, no way. Bad for shareprice and investor confidence.. Thinking in the entire USA corperate industry

[@trueriver1950]

Maybe you need to find a research institute that incorporates praying for change. ... ... ... (Just to be clear, this is an attempt at a joke)

[@Robulite]

The model 3 is so much fun I'm not really worried about my charge time since for everything i've done it's charged overnight. Now in the future if they get some insane battery it'd be cool to replace the battery in my model 3 after it ages a bit. Get 700 miles of range would be pretty insane tbh.

[@guy2726]

For the majority of people who are able to charge at home, speed of charging is not an issue. What is an issue is availability of en-route & destination chargepoints. In the UK, roll-out is patchy and many of these are alas not working :(

[@stuartburns8657]

Lets hope your old battery can be recycled then, otherwise ppl with chase the latest fad, thus undermining the modest Co2 gains EV's offers Rob

[@catchnkill]

@Screwdriver440 It is true on theory. In real life there is very low recycle rate for old battery. How many mobile phones you own in your life? How many pieces of battery of those phones recycled? Cost of recycling is very high and in most cases unprofitable. It is even worse for a EV's battery. It is structured like a Russian doll with layer and layer and layer and layer and layer of encapsulation. Recycling is even more difficult than manufacturing itself.

[@stuartburns8657]

@Screwdriver440 good to hear, assuming they don't end up in landfills. We've got a bad track record as a species with making something, then having an 'opps' moment for the next 2-3 generations

[@catchnkill]

@Screwdriver440 Telsa's battery is not like this at all. They use standard 18650 battery cells to build their battery pack. Say for example a 85kwh battery pack. It consists of 7,104 lithium-ion battery cells in 16 modules. Each module contains 6 groups of 74 cells wired in parallel. The 6 groups are wired in series within the module. There are a lot of compartmentation to minimize the fire risk to the whole pack. Within those compartments there is fire-retarding fluid. There are temperature and other parameters monitoring circuit boards. It is not just a big aluminum case. Finally those 7104 18650 cells each has theirs own metal cases like a normal AA cell. Not as simple as you say.

[@jasonbroom7147]

One of the less flattering aspects of a free market economy is that sometimes being "good"...just isn't good enough. Millions of dollars are spent every year on good solutions that are outdated or outclassed before they even make it into production. This is particularly true with any segment of the market where there is a tremendous amount of potential profit. This drives fast-paced innovation that sees "the next great thing" quickly forgotten about because something even better came along. For example, if the plasma boring technology you discussed recently proves viable and scales rapidly, does that obviate the need for many of the advancements in solar panel technology? I think one could argue that it would, and to our collective benefit, but that doesn't mean some companies won't lose a lot of money as a result.

[@samueleveleigh2767]

its important to remember that alot of this is very new in the research world. we've been so focused on designing energy storage on the micro scale but those methods simply dont scale up so we pretty much have to begin from scratch.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

The needed scale isn't that large. Ev's have now reached a size where they are big enough both for cars as wel as domestic storage.. Any progress is now going to keeping the same capacity buy lowering weight and volume.

[@lizardmilk]

So, would you say, solid state batteries are something to keep an “ion”.

[@ColinRichardson]

So, let's go with the "Can charge 4-6 (so lets say 5) times faster" What does that mean for the Charging pedestals? With these batteries, they would be at their highest discharge speed almost constantly for existing stations. What do you think a station capable of charging at Megawatt speeds would look like? Or even rows upon rows of these stations? Imagine being the grid organisers and getting a request for a connection size of those capacities?

[@andrasbiro3007]

The Tesla Megapack can smoot out the load. And peak charging rate isn't as important as the average. 250kW or even 150kW is good enough, if it still holds at 80% state of charge. Usually charging speed drops fast over 20-30%.

[@ColinRichardson]

@@andrasbiro3007 Hmm, good point. So you think existing stations would be fine with "Okay, Peak may get capped, as long as it increases the average by 4-6 times".. I like it... Do you think the stations themselves will be able to handle a sustained load for higher than it normally would nowadays?

[@1pcfred]

Proponents of alternative energy are the kind of people that can just barely change a light bulb. If they had to light a campfire they'd probably freeze to death in the process.

[@ColinRichardson]

@@1pcfred that seems a little off topic. Did you mean to comment that somewhere else?

[@andrasbiro3007]

@@ColinRichardson Chargers can do it just fine, batteries are the bottleneck.

[@Enis000]

Mark would you consider making a video about smart devices that are connected to the net and could use power at the optimal times? For example a smart washing machine that waits for the sun to reach its peak so it can profit from the cheap solar power coming in. This would decrease the load on the net and make us need less storage capacity. What's holding back this technology? I've always thought this holds a lot of promise because It seems like something we can do right now! Maybe the grid operators aren't able/ willing to offer flexible pricing to incentivise this? Why not though because it would seem like this would help make their job easier.

[@brynduffy]

Germany just developed a really exciting new source of energy: It's called "coal"but I think what they mean by that is undeveloped graphene. And it's 100% natural! You just shovel it into your boiler or stove and it does this amazing thing. It ignites and generates heat.

[@michaelwilliams2430]

It does an amazing thing, it dumps dangerous toxins into the air you breathe as well as large amounts of C02 that causes the greenhouse effect leading to global warming and eventually the extinction of that stupid species burning the coal.

[@markoverton5858]

As always a mass of common sense from mat, thanks for your efforts to bring us the real facts.👍👏👏👏👏👏👏👏❤️

[@Sentient.A.I.]

I can't wait fot the "real" breakthrough. The way things are going with machine learning and mass resources going into research we are going to hit the Holy grail of power storage sooner or later. Imagine being able run a 5 person home for several weeks just on stored power or to run your laptop for a week without plugging in. Running the whole laptop video card games and all not just gimp mode! Imagine driving across the country on a thirty minute charge! This is the future of power storage as long as we keep putting money and minds and processing power into battery R&D! It might not be this decade or even the next but it will change the future world wide. If of course we make it that far!

[@jimj2683]

such an ignorant comment.

[@Oshino.]

Not gonna lie, I laughed at the unintentional pun at 12:57 *Talking about batteries* "That's still something to keep an eye on" (ion)

[@lastborn11]

Impressive amount of information being unpacked here. … the lesson for me is: I’m so far behind ...yet economically and feasibly have time to digest it all … Thanks for plating this up for me chef!

[@KoenvanGorpAstronomy]

Solid state batteries are becoming the plasma panel analog for batteries: years of getting better just to be outdone by LCD getting just good enough at a lower price to be more competitive over and over again until it went the way of the dinosaur...

[@dertythegrower]

bot above.. reported.

[@dertythegrower]

true.. time will tell, Koen..

[@KoenvanGorpAstronomy]

@@dertythegrower In the end it doesn't really matter which one wins. Just having multiple competing technologies is a great driver for innovation.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

That is how everythings works. Betamax was also higher quality then vhs. But vhs was easier to licence and once economies of scale fell in favor of vhs the results where in. Cheaper can almost always overcome any other shortcommings. It enables making tweaks elsewhere that are marginally more expensive to accomodate the cheaper tech and still be cheaper in total in the end. And whatever gets mass adoption first gets the economies of scale, and thus the adoption and with it also most future investment. After that it needs another disruptive tech orders of magnitude better to displace the incumbant again. So lithium ion and it's derivatives are still here to stay for another decade at least.

[@Xyler94]

​@@baronvonlimbourgh1716 Betamax was marginally better in quality, but lost because of VHS's two-fold punch 1 - VHSs were easier to license thanks to the founding company not being Sony, so VHS players and recorders were cheaper usually 2 - VHS cassettes had longer record times. Making them overall better. Doesn't matter if Betamax was slightly better in quality, it suffered greatly in record times. And your average consumer wanted recording time.

[@DevinHeida]

It's never too late.

[@dertythegrower]

...Bot...

[@hooby_9066]

Batteries have so many different applications - in cars, in home power storage (combined with solar cells), in electronic devices like smart phones, in drones, etc. All those different applications come with somewhat different requirements and affordances - so the current "one battery-type fits all" approach might eventually give way to having different types of battery for different applications - depending on the strengths and weaknesses of each technology. For example, in a car battery, weight and energy density are top priority - while for home storage you might put higher priority on longevity. In a personal vehicle, charging speed is important to the buyer, while in public transport, charging breaks could just end up a fixture in the schedule. And consumer preferences tend to change over time as well. Right now, many people seem to worry about range and charging times a lot - which reflects some uncertainty about new technology - but who knows if those things will still be deemed that important, once people got used to car charging. Many people might not actually need hundreds of kilometers of range in their daily lives and find lower capacities to be fully sufficient.

[@hg60justice]

higher energy/lower weight is the holy grail of mobile power storage. it'll be portable devices who adapt solid state in mass production first. i think mass storage will take whatever is longest lasting/cheapest implementation as new types show up. weight and volume don't matter as much. i'm sure the problem with some or most solid state is they don't transfer over well to existing battery production methods, meaning a whole new process has to be built for them to be mass produced. when portable devices mass adopt them, then other powered devices will follow in a few years. once the power and life cycle is acceptable too.

[@1pcfred]

Gasoline is 13,500 Watt/Hours a liter. That's the number to beat battery head.

[@Xyler94]

​@@1pcfred But engines are only 35% to 40% efficient at extracting that. The rest is wasted as heat. Not to mention the other inefficiencies that come with cars, and you don't ever put pure gasoline in your vehicles, it has additives to stabilize the fuel and in the winter, make it less likely to not combust at low temps. EVs are at 95% efficient at releasing that stored energy in batteries, so take that with what it's worth too.

[@1pcfred]

@@Xyler94 an internal combustion engine is more like 10% efficient. But even at that EV still can't compete with the energy density of gasoline. Gasoline is just that good. We use fossil fuels because they're a tough act to beat. Impossible with our current technology actually. Nothing else we have remotely compares to it. One liter of gasoline has a staggering 9,000 Watt hours of energy in it. A lithium-ion battery has from 250-600 Wh/l. So gasoline has 1284% more energy in it than the best batteries we can make. And that's why EVs suck! Well, one reason anyways.

[@sarcasmo57]

I hope we get some rad batteries soon.

[@chosenoutdoors3998]

Still something to keep an "Ion," love the pun's keep them rolling :)

[@Inkling777]

You might do a video on Casio's Tough Solar watches, both the solar cells and the long-life storage systems. I love mine. No replacing the battery every few years.

[@WXSTANG]

The new tesla battery is the same unit manufactured by Panasonic, it is a Panasonic battery, but is essentially 6 batteries in one, allowing for elimination of the housing, and other components, making it lighter, more cost effective. That is what allows range improvement, and cost reduction.

[@chaptermasteravarice140]

What ever happaned to the iron-oxide battery for stationary storage? Was it too inefficient?

[@erictuffelmire6826]

Nope... I made one with higher energy density than lithium ion. About 3x higher than the alleged theoretical capacity of 200 watt hours per kg. The secret is surface area...

[@chaptermasteravarice140]

@@erictuffelmire6826 That sounds great! Care to share how you pit it together? I'd like to try building a small one.

[@spodevids]

Lol this guy can't even get the anode and cathode correct. Nice work.

[@chrisglaze658]

Matt, you should check out Atlis Motor Vehicles who is also developing a battery and charging system in house. Mark Hatchet is the CEO, a truck guy, and would likely love to speak with you on their own development. I think there's no 1 size fits all to the battery issue. Small personal vehicles have a different requirement that a large commercial vehicle for cost/range. I think there's a good chance we'll see a mix of technologies over the next 30-40 years as chemistries and technologies progress. Energy storage is a fundamental technology that's been sadly overlooked for the better part of the last millennium, so at least we're heading the in the right direction now.

[@nepoxx]

The number of charge cycles is not a big deal if the batteries are much cheaper, as they are replaceable (as seen with the Bolt and Kona EV recall). I'm concerned that the battery format will change and you will not be able to find a replacement for your 8-10 year old car. As a bonus, the battery tech will only improve so replacing your battery a few years down the line will improve your range beyond what you had when you purchased the EV.

[@StubbyPhillips]

My car still runs on little explosions so I'm out of the loop, but what I don't get is why do EVs carry a half ton of batteries around all the time even when they're not going far? Seems like smaller, modular batteries would make more sense. Also, you could just swap them out for charging. In other words, make them a little more flexible and a little less like iPhones...

[@alanlight7740]

A number of companies have had this idea and found that it isn't feasible. It would require much more infrastructure related to recharging, many more employees to handle the swaps, and above all it would require a much larger number of batteries overall in order to have batteries in all the cars _plus_ more pre-charged batteries stocked in locations where they would hope drivers needed them, plus all the batteries being recharged. This of course in an environment in which battery supply is already constrained. Besides this swapped batteries cannot provide any structure to the vehicle, thus being dead weight in the car - whereas nonswappable batteries can be part of the vehicle's structure, thus replacing other components and reducing overall weight. However your point that batteries for unneeded range add weight even when it isn't needed is exactly why Tesla has not been building super long range cars. That, and supply constraints. Despite all this a few companies have been continuing to pursue the model you suggest, but it doesn't look like any of them will see much success. However, Japanese motorcycle manufacturers are not only pursuing this idea but have agreed on a standardized system that they will all use. However, this is possible because motorcycle batteries can be much smaller than automobile batteries.

[@StubbyPhillips]

@@alanlight7740 Wow, thanks for the thoughtful, non-toxic reply! Perhaps a somewhat smaller permanent, built-in battery plus pluggable/rentable aux packs for occasional extended range would make sense. Just seems weird to me that we have all these cars hauling a half-ton of batteries around everywhere they go.

[@ralphbell1786]

When my gas tank is on E, I could just put in 1/2 gallon because I'm only planning on going to the store tomorrow. But I always fill the tank, knowing that I will burn extra gas to haul the rest of the tank rather than going to the station constantly. It would be nice to have modular batteries as an option though. Like adding RAM to early computers.

[@alanlight7740]

@@StubbyPhillips - there has been some discussion about possible range extenders - especially for trucks like the F-150 Lightning or the Cybertruck to allow long distance towing - which might be comprised of portable batteries, a small generator, or a small fuel cell that could be temporarily plugged in in the back.

[@chaseweeks2708]

I think anything that makes EV battery packs smaller and lighter is a win. I look forward to the day when battery packs advance enough to make an EV Miata a real world thing. Of course by the time that happens it will probably be loaded down with the full ADAS/Nanny cornucopia and completely ruin it.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

You'd be better off making your own. It would make it a track monster.

[@chaseweeks2708]

@@baronvonlimbourgh1716 yeah, but the range on the track would have me singing along to old Tenacious D, "I'm gonna kick your ass! From here... to right over there!"

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

@@chaseweeks2708 depends on how many laps you do before a break. 30/45 minutes should definatly be doable on a light car like a miata.

[@chaseweeks2708]

@@baronvonlimbourgh1716 with current kits you're looking at about 100mi without putting your boot into it. Less than half that on the track. And they are not packing high amperage chargers, so if the battery is flat you're gonna be sitting for hours while it reinflates. Not a good track weapon, but it would still be hilarious fun on the daily commute.

[@baronvonlimbourgh1716]

@@chaseweeks2708 you can make your own battery packs. Loads of channels dedicated to that on youtube here. Also with factory charging systems from crashed ev's and the sort if you wish. If you have the time and some resources crazy things can be achieved by men in sheds lol.

[@mikesheahan6906]

Can you imagine what the internet looked like in 1908? All the talk about the cost saving benefits of petrol over oats and hay. It must have been very similar to what we see today.

[@mikesheahan6906]

@Harry Groundwater No, but the Model T was.

[@newscoulomb3705]

8:25 Wow, I didn't realize Solid Energy Solutions was that far ahead of QuantumScape. They were sending cell prototypes for validation to GM over two years ago, and though I haven't seen anything published, they were supposed to have sent automotive-grade cells for testing to GM and Hyundai by the end of last year.

[@Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez]

Mr Matt, could you do actual research or at least stick to things you actually understand? This research is laughable gobbledygook nonsense. Please have a little more respect towards science.

[@jmacd8817]

I think all options need to be on the table, and explored to a reasonable depth. As you said, right tool for the right job. I'm thrilled that cobalt is being dramatically reduced. I just wish we could find another option for the lithium. While I'm a huge skeptic for hydrogen fuel cells, I think they'll find use in places that Li isn't best equipped for (shipping, possibly grid storage). At least if used for grid, that's one less use/need for lithium. Oh, a possible topic of interest would be the current and near term geopolitical concerns... Cheers!

[@doctorkiwano]

I repowered my sailboat to electric a few years ago. When doing that repower, I stuck with a lead-acid propulsion bank, because lithium batteries catching fire while underway would be a much larger problem than they would be in e.g. a car (ouside of any injuries and property damage, I'd need S&R rather than just a taxi). Needless to say, I'm pretty happy to hear that the mass production timelines on the solid state batteries being described here, line up pretty nicely with the expected end-of-life for my current lead-acid bank.

[@johnburns4017]

A graphine battery (solid state) too late? Never. Well the graphine battery is a supercapacitor really. Looking forward to more great advances.

[@Knights_of_Zurg]

I agree with your comment about the proper tool for the proper job. In instances where weight isn't an issue (Mass storage from renewable sources), there might be several different solutions which will work, while for things like EV's, where safety, weight, and range are the primaries, it might need a completely different set of solutions. Like you said, time will tell.

[@bradpeterson1835]

Matt thank you for the thoughtful research. I too agree that all this technology will pay off in ways we may not be able to grasp now. Who knows there may be some person in the World working out of their garage that has something revolutionary but needs more POWER etc. I do have one question though. I didn't see anything about Graphene or maybe it is one of the technologies you refer to called a different name? This to me looks extremely promising especially in an automotive capacity. Thank you for all that you do!

[@dennistucker1153]

@Matt...love your videos! I wouldn't hold my breath on many of these tech items. It seems like it only really counts when a tech is successful in the market place. We could say we learned some things but without commercial success, the tech fades into obscurity quickly. There have been a few exceptions like the heat engine.

[@chidorirasenganz]

I think you should have covered LFP batteries as CATL and BYD have been improving their energy density to be on par with standard lithium batteries

[@brianseattle]

Great update! Glad to see you mentioned Solid Power is already started pilot production of the 100Ah Solid State batteries. I'm optimistic there will be cars with 400 - 500 mile ranges in the next 5 year. There is also something better coming, but at some point you gotta put a stake in the ground and stay this is what we're building. Like Tesla and their 4680, not the best battery tech but proven tech.

[@punditgi]

Matt is amazing with his spot on and highly informative videos! 👍

[@radicalradzik]

Great data points. Many exciting advancements in energy storage and durability. Thanks for your work Matt!

[@TricoliciSerghei]

Thank you for the video Matt, as always great production, good-paced and soothing to watch ;)

[@TheScottsawesomeart]

i just saw a new brake thru for graphene battery, love your work on here matt!

[@tomreingold4024]

I really appreciate how you tell us about innovations that are on the way.

[@newscoulomb3705]

I think you overlooked one of the most important battery advancements that should be coming to market next year through CATL, EVE, and others: LFMP batteries. Essentially, the introduction of manganese into a traditional lithium iron phosphate battery results in gravimetric energy densities similar to current NCA and NCM chemistries (250 to 300 Wh/kg) while preserving LFP's lower cost, lower fire risk, and cobalt-free benefits.

[@agw5425]

I would be happy with 4680 LiFe cells hitting the open market at $50/KWh so diy and home storage can grow as we need it to. If I had a 5+ KWh home battery my average power need would only be 175w/h for my home, that would mean that the grid that now supplies 15-20 KW could serve 110 similar customers with no upgrade whatsoever. For those countries with no or pour grids it would cost far less to get to the Swedish grid standard.(my heat is separate and not electric) That would be a huge step in the right direction in my opinion as we can cover most of those needs with rooftop solar already.

[@ChessMasterNate]

I agree that there is room for several technologies. I think sodium batteries are excellent for grid storage, because they could continue working for 100 plus years, and great for off-grid solar. And people that are happy with charging at home, would rather have batteries with more longevity and energy density than fast charging capability. People that charge publicly will happily sacrifice a little range, maybe even some longevity, if they can charge very fast. Then there are budget people, who want low cost but something that will last and don't mind sacrificing some range, and fast charging. There will also be people willing to pay top dollar for something that does well at everything, perhaps sacrificing longevity to an extent. But I think the big dollars will be for eVTOL batteries, and other aircraft batteries. There, energy density, and safety will be king.

[@michaelvadney5803]

Thanks for the video Matt! I do believe that solid state will be the turning point for most electrification. Ford's battery tech converts existing Lithium Ion manufacturing equipment rather easily, but isn't sodium a fairly dangerous component if it gets wet? What about graphene batteries? So very thin. I would think that their storage capabilities would be insane if they could actually produce it. Thanks again!

[@julikaiba]

one thing that wasnt addressed in this is that an alternative to lithium might be good since (as far as i know) lithium is rather hard to get and also has its own set of problems in regards to sustainability and ecological impact

[@CerealKiller.]

when I was in school around 96' to 2011 It was told that Oil is running out and it would be around for 50 years. It's 2022 so it's obvious something has to change it!

[@WyldGoat]

Hey Matt! You should check out Graphene Manufacturing Group's (GMG) battery division. Graphene Aluminium-ion batteries are coming out soon. Quick description: 3000 minimum cycles. 60x charging speeds. No rare earth materials: Aluminium and graphene. Graphene is manufactured by cracking LNG. Very low cost to produce, with higher quality than Graphite. Enjoy your research on them!

[@eaaeeeea]

I 100 % support the simultaneous developement of all energy storage tech that show promise on paper and in lab. Once one company makes a commercially viable solid state battery, then it's just a matter of couple of years' iteration to get MUCH better batteries than we have now. Meanwhile Tesla's 4680 is an awesome leap in iterative improvement of lithium-ion cell tech. I'd like to see more companies producing that kind of battery too. Let's continue to improve battery technologies in parallel, it will be awesome!

[@sebindabin]

Love your videos! I am wanting to stay on top of these breakthroughs and battery-related news myself, any suggestions on what to read/who to watch?

[@bubbagun42]

I haven't seen any discussion about battery form factors. We have standard AA, AAA C and D cells for consumer electronics. I know that can use an AA cell from any manufacturer in any device designed for AA. The only difference is max current and WH ratings. We need the same form of standardization for EV and home storage, but larger capacities. For example: X, Y and Z cells that are based on the size, voltage, and shape for 1, 10 and 100 KwH batteries using 2020 LiOn technology. In time I would be able to repair/upgrade an EV with higher capacity batteries in the X,Y or Z form factor that the EV was designed to use. Such standardization would also encourage competition from battery manufacturers.

[@surferdudemi]

This needs to be revisited / updated.

[@anthonycalia1317]

I would like to comment not on the specifics of Solid State Batteries but rather on the presentation. The science and understanding of these competing technologies is a numbers game. In most videos, this one included. The specifics of each technology and the various manufacturer's achievements and projections, are spewed out in sequence with the viewer having little or no chance of making mental comparisons of benefits or trajectories of the individual technologies. If instead, you were to present a table for each of the various technology's attributes, it would be far easier to both understand and remember. I hope I was able to help.

[@TripleOmega]

One big thing that seems to be overlooked here is the type of matter being used. If a battery technology uses a different type of material it can avoid production limitations caused by limited supplies of typical materials such as lithium and cobalt. As demand for batteries grows this could become very important.

[@WyldGoat]

You're thinking of Graphene Aluminium-ion batteries from GMG ;)