Is this the best hand grinder I've used so far? CafeSing Orca Flat Burr

[@coffeenerdaaron]

My thoughts on the CafeSing Orca flat burr hand grinder!! Thanks for watching and I hope you enjoy ☺

[@mikele7982]

Can the ghost burr grind for espresso?

[@boabbastimes3270]

@@mikele7982No The setting on 1 barely grind for V60

[@coffeenerdaaron]

No, they are filter only

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Haha! Iron hands 😂

[@Silverjag1997]

Really enjoyed this. Just found the channel, think your presentation is really well balanced in terms of production value/formality/warmth- while also still looking really nice and having a good pace. Thanks!

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Much appreciated! Thank you 😊

[@Rydecoffeecoach]

Mate that is some beautiful broll and love the way the handle swing through and changes the text. That is 🔥!! Keep up the great work! 👌

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thanks man!!!

[@icosabrewhouse]

Awesome review Aaron! Glad to see you're enjoying using the Vida glass!

[@kakegarcia8056]

Awesome video and thanks for it! I had the same noise in my Timemore C3 Pro and I jus put a drop of oil and the noise is gone, thanks for point that the noise could be in that part (I rotated the knob and the noise were there). Bests regards form a Venezuelan follower in Panama!

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thanks!!

[@lukemorison2355]

elite video, great looking grinder! didn’t know there were many flat burr hand grinders outside of the pietro! thanks dude ❤

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thanks!! Yeah it’s an interesting grinding for sure. There are a couple flat burr hand grinders but this is the first one I’ve used.

[@Aka-Chico]

It's about time someone did a video on this grinder! I don't know how many times I've seen this on the interweb and wondered what it was about. When in doubt make your own sound effects😂 Solid video man!

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Haha! Thank you!!

[@morningcoffee1]

Great video, Aaron. I get to do espresso only around 1-5 clicks feom the burrs touching point. One more point is that my burrs touch exactly at 1. I got the grinder with only all purpose burrs.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

That’s interesting! I wonder if the burrs are different?

[@morningcoffee1]

@coffeenerdaaron I'm not sure, honestly. But I think it's the same Chinese design.

[@klexboo1910]

I really enjoy your style of producing videos. they create a nice mood :). Thank you for the comparison, i didn't see this grinder on the bigger channels. Keep up the good work. I would love to see more videos :)

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thank you!!

[@RandomRobReviews]

Just found channel and subbed. I fear this could be yet another hobby to pursue. You do a great job with vids, thanks much.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thanks!! I appreciate the sub and kind comment 😊

[@AlexZapata-]

Dang i need to turn my notifications on this is so cool!

[@coffeenerdaaron]

😝

[@TheBigDean18]

What’s the best travel hand grinder for pour over/immersion brewing on a budget?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

The Timemore hand grinders are good for the money from what I hear, and honestly the KINgrinder K6 is really good for the money, I like mine.

[@TheBigDean18]

@@coffeenerdaaron sweet! I just got a new oxo burr grinder, it’s like the lowest end “good” grinder lol, not the best for coarse grinding but great for pour over, filter coffee. Just got a new gooseneck kettle in the mail today and surprisingly saw an Aeropress @ Wal-Mart. So much coffee things @ once!. Anyway thanks for the reply, I subbed, I’ll be watching more!

[@Jahloveipraise]

Great video man, i decided to buy it to mess around with. Pretty impressive for 200 bucks. I didn’t take time to read through all the comments tho to see if anyone mentioned it, but you can adjust your zero point on it (or your 1 point). When you’re about to tighten the bottom nut, put it on setting one, and push the bottom burr all the way in to bur touch and then tighten the nut. Then it should be at setting one with both burr sets 👍🏽

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thanks!! I did try that but I felt like the bottom burr carrier might be too loose. Does it work fine for you that way?

[@portakeeper]

Super interesting grinder

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Indeed!

[@unsharted_territory]

The knob squeak might be fixed by putting a little mineral oil in knob hole. That's what I did on my helor 101 as per helor recommendations.

[@RoofisDoofis]

Great vid. I’m skeptical about actual surface area being larger than a 64mm regardless of the wider width. The math just doesn’t add up. (4887.8mm squared for the 64s and 3825.3mm squared for the 49)

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thanks! And I completely understand your skepticism, I was skeptical too but I think it's accurate which is why I decided to mention it. I compared them side by side to a couple 64mm burr sets that I have, and when you factor out the way larger auger hole and larger holes for the screws on the 64's, you can see how the comparable area where the face of the teeth are is wider. That being said I haven't done the math and the 1mm larger info came from CafeSing, but like I said from what I can see they do appear to have a greater surface area. If I'm wrong I do apologize, I will see if there's a way I can do some actual math to get a more accurate number. If I'm wrong I'll let you know! ☺

[@RoofisDoofis]

@@coffeenerdaaron I did the math in the 64mm has roughly 20% more surface area. This doesn’t account for the auger though which would help the smaller one surpass the larger I’m sure. The real question is if it helps with flavor or if it’s just to make grinding easier.

[@thebitterfig9903]

@@coffeenerdaaron I think it’s an issue of terminology rather than skepticism. The 49mm burrs have a longer cutting length (14.6mm vs 13.6mm), but less total surface area, because even though the auger hole is smaller, the maximum radius is a lot smaller. The total surface area will be the area of the total burr circle minus the auger circle. Thus, pi(B^2 - A^2), where B is the radius of the total blur size (so half of 64 or 49), and A is the radius of the auger. A is also B-L, where L is the cutting length. If we replace A with B-L and expand, we’d end up with the formula pi (2BL-L^2), or pi*L(2B-L). Pi*13.6(64-13.6) is greater than pi*14.6(49-14.6). Even though the 64mm burr has a bigger hole, there’s more metal. Once you start squaring numbers, the biggest number clobbers the smaller ones pretty quick. However, I don’t know what actually matters in burr geometry. Is the actual surface area more important, or is the total cutting length more important? Any individual bit of a coffee bean has longer to travel from the center to the edge on the 49mm burr, which seems important, but the 64mm burr can probably cut more beans at once. How much of that makes an impact on flavor is all beyond me, and it seems like this makes a good cup of coffee. Or rather two of them. Hope this isn’t confrontational, I can’t sleep and it seemed like an interesting math problem.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

@@thebitterfig9903 not confrontational at all!! Thanks for doing the math, this is above my head!!! 😂 You’re right on the terminology aspect, it was hard to explain but what I meant was width of the cutting surface not total surface area!! You are correct, thanks for sharing this!

[@evancourtis3539]

I had this exact same thought and did the math after out of curiosity, with the same results as above. However I think that total grinding area relates more to output rate rather than grind quality. My initial impression is that the grinding path length will have much more to do with grind uniformity. I would love to see some data about this, it’s definitely an interesting topic

[@zoswah3985]

Nice coffee grinder.. i would love to have one.. 😊

[@Sinisterg60]

This seems if you can't find a ZP6 this may be an interesting alternative. Great video Aaron!

[@coffeenerdaaron]

I’ll have to take your word for it since I don’t currently have a ZP6 in the lineup! Hopefully I can get hands on one soon and do a comparison. Thanks man!

[@calangolima]

Great video!

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thanks!!

[@9af1s]

I feel this wouldn’t be close to the high end conical burrs like zp6 or c40 for filter coffee, correct me if I’m wrong.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Based on what I know about those two grinders I would agree with your thoughts. I am trying to get my hands on a ZP6 for comparison.

[@impaque]

How to calibrate the burrs if they has two screws instead of three?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Do you mean how do you align them? Like using shims? If that’s what you mean you really don’t need to with small diameter burrs like this, and you can’t align ghost burrs, at least not that I’m aware of.

[@abdullahal-maktoomi7487]

Thank you

[@zakariyabaker874]

Thoughts on this vs the Kingrinder K6?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

I’ll be doing a new video featuring this grinder and their 2 new grinders soon. I’m planning on using a couple grinders to compare and I still have the K6 so I’ll most likely include it.

[@javierrayon8808]

A,axing video Aarón, I had been looking forward to a review of this very innovative grinder. How do pour overs taste with the flat burrs?

[@javierrayon8808]

Amazing*

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thanks! The standard burrs make goo pour over but not amazing. I feel they lack some clarity vs grinding the same coffee with something better for filter. They produce a fair amount of fines so that can muddy up a pour over. They’re definitely way better for espresso!

[@ggusta1]

Please compare to comandante mk4

[@coffeenerdaaron]

I will do my best to get one for a comparison!

[@coffeecove7058]

Enjoyed the video. I had this grinder on my list of coffee stuff to get, but still glad to see a review of it before getting it. By the way, may I ask what kind of double wall glass you used for the pour-over is and where to find it at? I really like that cup. Thanks for the video.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thanks!! The cup is from Icosa Brew House, it’s one of their sensory cups.

[@asapnapster2514]

Avensi coffee glass.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Yep!

[@coffeecove7058]

@@coffeenerdaaron ok thank you! I have the Avensi glasses on my coffee gadget list of stuff to get as well.

[@andor4260]

Great video! Do you think it could be a good choice for espresso? I already have a KinGrinder K6 and I love it, but I'm also interested what could a flat burr grinder provide for espresso. Also for relatively cheap 😅

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thanks for watching! The K6 is a great grinder, especially for how cost effective it is. The Orca also makes great espresso but I’ve never compared them side by side and it’s been I while since I used it for espresso. Flat burr espresso is different than conical burr espresso so it is fun to play around and compare. I typically always gravitate towards flat burr for both filter and espresso but it really depends on the coffee you like and your taste preferences 😊

[@TommyPhotoRealistic]

Have you tried grinding for moka pot? Do you think I can obtain the best results with flat or ghosted burr? Thanks and compliments for the video.

[@mrhsabari]

Thanks for the review! How does the taste of the ghost burrs compare to other hand grinders (such as the K6) or other electric grinders you've used? I'm looking for a hand grinder for light roast filter. Curious to your thoughts!

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Of the grinders I own and have tested I would say this is the best, in my experience, hand grinder for filter light roasts so far. That being said I have never used a ZP6 and I have not used a Comandante or any of the better Timemore hand grinders in a long time. Personally I am not a huge fan of conical burr flavor profiles so for me most hand grinders have never hit the spot. As far as electric grinders go, outside of the Ode and DF64 which I don't use often anymore, I've mainly been using my DF83 and EK43 and those are not fair comparisons in my opinion!! I am thinking about doing a comparison between this and the Ode Gen 2 cause I feel like thats a relatable enough grinder for most people that it may be a good comparison.

[@coffeecove7058]

I enjoyed the video

[@HansProbs]

Hmmm, wonder how this compares to ZP6

[@coffeenerdaaron]

I’ll be honest I don’t know, I’ve actually not used a ZP6. I know that it’s a great grinder, I’ll see if I can get my hands on one to compare!

[@HansProbs]

@@coffeenerdaaron that would be awesome, almost like a travolta/cage face/off

[@coffeenerdaaron]

😂

[@ShayneScherer]

Sorry if I may have missed it in the video but I don't think you touched on retention and static

[@coffeenerdaaron]

You didn’t miss it, I didn’t really mention it since it’s a hand grinder. You can RDT if you want but there really isn’t static since it’s low RPM and theirs no electric motor, also it’s all contained in the dosing cup. As far as retention it’s really not an issue if you give it a few palm whacks after you grind. Some grinds will stay up in the bottom of the grind chamber near the exit of the burrs but in my experience it’s pretty minimal and like I said if you tap the grinder in you hand a couple times it all falls down into the dosing cup.

[@coffeecove7058]

Thanks for sharing I really enjoyed the video. I had this grinder on my list of coffee stuff to get, but still was good to watch a review of it before getting it. Can I ask what double wall glass that you used for the pour-over is and where to buy it at? I really like the cup. Thank you.

[@coffeecove7058]

Thanks for sharing the video I really enjoyed it. I had this grinder on my coffee stuff to get list, but was still nice seeing a review of it being buying it. Can I ask where you got the double wall glass for the pour-over from and where to get it? I really like the cup.

[@Danglegin]

Any comment on the effort required to grind for espresso with this one vs a conical grinder, such as J-Max from 1zpresso?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

I feel like a conical is easier to grind for espresso. This thing, while it does produce really great espresso, can be very difficult grinding for espresso, especially light roasts.

[@BoringLifeAccountant]

The lock nut on the bottom is not supposed to be locked all the way tight per the instructions I recieved. The instructions say to lock all the way tight and then back 2 adjustments.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thank you for pointing that out! You are correct, I missed that part in the text of their burr swap video. Mine didn’t come with any paper instructions, did yours?

[@BoringLifeAccountant]

@@coffeenerdaaron Yes, mine came with instructions, but the instructions were very frustrating. Maybe better you didn't recieve them. Thank you for the Video. We all appreciate your videos very much and thank you for reviewing this grinder. 🙂 I forgot to mention, although the instructions say 2 clicks back, I usually just do 1. You can play with the adjustments to get to the 0 point / #1 on the external adjustment on the espresso burrs. May take some trial and error, but very possible. Thank you again! 🙂

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thank you for sharing this!! And thanks for watching, I appreciate it 😊

[@needmorebeans]

Burr area: 64mm π*(32²-18.4²)=2153.37 mm² 49mm π*(24.5²-9.9²)= 1577.83 mm² 64mm burrs have a 36.47% larger surface area than the 49mm burrs. Calculations do not include surfaces of cutting faces and mounting holes. If we include the cutting surfaces of the blades, the 64mm burr will continue to blow the 49mm burr out of the water.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Is that taking into account the inner diameter of the burrs?

[@needmorebeans]

@@BensCoffeeRants Yeap, outer radius minus inner radius of hole.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

This is really interesting, thanks for sharing the math! I think ultimately it’s a terminology issue, I think they just meant the teeth are longer by 1mm so the grinds have a slightly longer distance to travel, and because of being in the burr longer the grind theoretically might be not consistent?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

How did you account for the inner diameter and mounting hole size of the 49mm burr? Is it listed somewhere?

[@aryehh7128]

Great video. You just about sold me. I've been wanting to try flat burrs and didn't know any hand grinders had them. Realistically, though, how long does it take to grind an 19 gram dose of espresso, at morning half-asleep energy level. How much does each click change the grind size? Comandante is 30microns, or with RedClix 15microns.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

To be honest it does take a while to grind fine with this, probably a solid 1:30-2 mins, maybe more depending on the coffee. I personally would not want to grind for espresso every morning with this guy! I don’t know how many microns each click is, they don’t list that and I don’t have a great, accurate, way of measuring it. But you do have pretty finite control.

[@jonas5666]

CafeSing's website says 24 microns

[@coffeenerdaaron]

@@jonas5666 thanks for sharing! I just looked it up too but it says 18um per click on their site. When I looked through the info on it before I didn’t see it listed.

[@paintflinger]

Did you try running it with a drill?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

No I haven’t yet but I keep meaning to!! Have you?

[@paintflinger]

@@coffeenerdaaron arriving in the mail this week. Holding me over till my 078s finally arrives

[@coffeenerdaaron]

@@paintflinger I feel ya! Im still waiting for my 078 too!!

[@davidlogan2682]

Does the auger work together with what looks like an outer burr type of burr/cutter above the flat burrs to act as as pre-breaker type of thing?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Yes it does!

[@davidlogan2682]

@@coffeenerdaaron You mentioned the difference in feel between the burr sets...based on your video description of the lack of vibration-ish feeling with the ghost burrs, it would seem that the espresso focused set used a pre-breaker concept, while the ghost burrs do not. Therefore, the ghost burrs don't have that outer cutting ring above the burrs. Is this correct?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Actually both burr housings have the pre breaker.

[@davidlogan2682]

@@coffeenerdaaron Interesting. Thanks for the video and info.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I'm in the middle of the video so far no mention of the pre breaker I thought I saw that too. That's a pretty big and unique feature on a hand grinder having a conical style pre breaker I believe it looks like. A lot of people say there is grind quality benefits with that.

[@WTFA54]

Great vid for an often overlooked grinder! Have you tried pulling any turbos with the ghost burrs at their finest setting or is that still too coarse?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

I have not, I don’t think they get fine enough even for a turbo! If I try it though I’ll let you know!! 😝

[@aryehh7128]

How long does it take to grind, say a 40 gram dose for a French Press with the ghost burrs? And, do you have a Comandante or a K-Max to compare the espresso against the Bimodals? By the way, I understand "Unimodal", the burrs are all the same angle and length. But these are all the lengths in between, the start again. Don't each of those burrs create slightly different sized grounds? So there'd be a relatively broad distribution... Or, maybe it doesn't work that way?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

I tested a 40gm grind today on the finest setting with the ghost burrs just to give you an idea and it took about 2:40. It was a pretty dense light roast so with a different coffee and a more course setting it may be faster but I would say that’s probably the max grind time. I will say it was too fine of a grind and I probably could’ve backed it off to about setting 6-7. I don’t have a Comandante or K Max to compare at the moment but I’m trying to get some more grinders for a later comparison video. As far as burrs go “unimodal” and “bimodal” are just terms to describe the particle distribution characteristics of any given burr set. It doesn’t mean the cutting and finishing teeth will necessarily look a specific way. The look of the burr is dependent on how the designer engineers them to cut the coffee they say their wanting. Unimodal means the majority of the particles that particular burr produces are more similar in size and there is less variation of the particle size. If you looked at them on a graph they would make one peak that represents most of the particle size. A bimodal burr means they produce two particle sizes where the particles in each respective size are more similar. If you looked at those on a graph there would be two peaks of similar sizes particles. I hope that makes sense and I didn’t already explain to you something you knew!! 😊

[@aryehh7128]

@@coffeenerdaaron Thank you kindly. Sorry that brew had to come out not great from the too fine grind. When you don't use ghost burrs for your French press or Clever, Switch or pour over, which burrs do you normally use and prefer? Do you usually go from flavor separation, clarity, sweetness (whatever that actually means in coffee!) or body and mouth feel? I'm deciding between something the Cast Lab Sweets, or an SSP Multipurpose. Ghost burrs aren't talked about much. I'm curious to taste them, but my next grinder purchase might be my last for awhile. So I'm not wanting to buy a novelty item, that I'm unhappy with for a long time. If CafeSing could offer similar cutting shape burrs to the SSP and old Dittings, with that easy swap, I think it could be a solution for a lot of coffee guys. Those of us on budget, but also anybody wanting to try specific burrs affordably, before shelling out $385 for one set of 83mm, they might not like the taste of.

[@johnkraus1844]

How well does this grinder work with light roast beans? I have a JMAX which is fine - except for light roasts- too hard to turn.

[@speakeasy_hann985]

i'm indonesian, i just got one then play it with tarachine 30 cafec 27 and all of my espresso machine include the picopresso kind of portable maker! 😁

[@Tristan_the_ultimate]

Awesome review as always sir Aaron! Maybe a showdown with the Kingrinder K6? 🤔 Also, I see a Turin SK 40 peeking behind you 😅 Been looking out for reviews for that grinder since I've been eyeing some budget electric grinders for a while now.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thank you!! I am planning a review of this grinder with a few other grinders as soon as I can get my hands on a couple more I’d like. And yes I do have an SK40 review coming soon!! In fact I’ve already filmed it, just editing it now!

[@Tristan_the_ultimate]

Yesss! Will be looking out for those vids! Thanks for making great coffee content! 🙏

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thank you for watching!! 😊

[@9af1s]

Also the fact they’re titanium coated makes me think if the ghost burrs produce lots of fines?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

It does produce some fines but it's not bad!

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Why would the titanium coating cause more fines?

[@wuernie1151]

just curious, anybody using this grinder espresso flat burr doing pour over? and how is the taste?

[@michael-c.]

Very informative, just subscribed. Please can you say what differences your noted between K6 and the Orca ghost burrs regarding to filter coffee? I hope that you can test them with medium/dark roasted beans. Thanks! 🤗

[@kujungyu]

I have a K6 and the Orca. From my side by side comparison, I found that the K6 brings out more body and strong sweetness at the start whereas the Orca ghost burrs were able to bring out more vibrance/acidity in the cup while highlighting more delicate flavour profiles. Now, i was surprised by how much fines the Orca Ghost burrs formed compared to the K6. I wouldve thought the conical burrs would create more fines, hence extending the TBT, but the orca had a longer TBT due to more fines. This was interesting.

[@Foolsauce]

I've been wondering about this grinder for a while! Got a K6 instead because there wasn't much out there for reviews on this one. Thanks for reviewing it. Did you do any taste tests against your other hand grinders?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

To be honest I haven’t, I should though!!! I was so focused on using this exclusively as soon as I got it so I could learn it and formulate my thoughts. I feel like it would only be a fair comparison for espresso but as soon as I get a chance I’ll compare them. Do you think it would make for an interesting video? They’re different price points and styles of grinder so I wasn’t sure if the comparison would be fair.

[@London42]

Are you @KyleRowsell from the future?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

😂

[@צביקיהירש]

Thanks for this review! Did you try the 1zpresso zp6? How those two compare? And isn't it much harder to grind manually with flat burrs than with conical burrs?

[@coffeenerdaaron]

I don’t currently have a ZP6 but it seems that everyone wants that comparison so I’m going to try to get one soon! And yes with the standard style burrs it can be difficult when grinding for espresso. The ghost burrs however feel very similar to a conical burr.

[@צביקיהירש]

Thanks!

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Thank you!

[@hugoferrazporto]

Great presentation as always :) do you consider it a niche killer? 😅 Just kidding. Keep up with the awesome work

[@coffeenerdaaron]

😂 thanks!

[@Maxime-ho9iv]

I just understood this was actually carrying a second burr instead of being a double burrs grinder. It was really confusing.

[@coffeecove7058]

sorry for the same replies. My comments did not post originally when I clicked on comment

[@coffeenerdaaron]

No worries!! 😝

[@IMNOTABARISTA]

Who needs the knobs if you have iron hands :D

[@kimhakem7566]

love you =P

[@coffeenerdaaron]

😘 love you too buddy!!

[@longsleevethong1457]

I’m gona use this to grind my weed.

[@coffeenerdaaron]

😂

[@linyongzheng]

Must....not....buy....another....handgrinder....

[@coffeenerdaaron]

😂

[@i7an]

A drop of oil will eliminate the squeaking sound ;)

[@ElecBrane]

You are paid by getting the grinder for free

[@coffeenerdaaron]

When I say that in my videos I mean they are not paying me on top of sending me a product. A lot of channels get free stuff and get paid on top of it, I don’t. And I don’t let the fact that it’s a free product persuade my review. I speak my mind about these things and I tell the company’s that I’m going to give my honest thoughts and they don’t have any input on the videos.

[@lezc3733]

Hardly free, if you account for the hours spent dialling in, wasted beans, and video production, then spending the time to answer all our questions, I’d say Cafesing are getting a pretty good deal……..keep up the great work. Got here from Hoons, and thanks to you both I’m enjoying a nice medium Honduras V60 ground with my brand new Orca (ghost burr on 4 Clicks) great cup but could’ve gone 1 or 2 clicks coarser.