Is This The Best Modern Doctor Who Cyberman Story?

[@HarboWholmes]

Oops. accidentally labelled Tomb as Invasion, please don't kill me

[@thelordsoftime7025]

6:05 Chibnall's early cameo in the show 🤣🤣

[@ftumschk]

@@thelordsoftime7025 I was thinking exactly the same thing :)

[@jh5220]

I sentence the to death

[@dennismason3740]

Best closer in 2020 - sound and line - not in that order. "...whilst screaming...hunger..." oh boy.

[@emmmahezw]

EXTERMINATE

[@simonster-9094]

The only thing I remembered this episode for is that it had both Barty Crouch Jr. and Barty Crouch Sr.

[@ryanlocke1117]

I'm such a foool How did i not realise 🤣

[@thomaswilliams2121]

I’m so mad I did not put two and two together

[@amauryrojas4013]

OH. MY. GOD

[@Murrlin27]

HOLY HECK! XD

[@neckogecko5238]

i grew up on the harry potter movies and doctor who but i only realized david tennant (favorite actor on the entire planet) was in the 4th movie a couple years ago

[@kdisley]

I always though the reason that Lumis didn't destroy himself when everyone's self-awareness returned is that all the converts saw themselves as monstrosities and things they wouldn't have chosen to become, whereas Lumis would've been fine with becoming a Cyberman; with his logical mind and his lack of humanity he was already well along that road even before his failing body left him progressing further and further towards complete physical consumption by the technology keeping him alive, so it wasn't such a huge change in his mind and actually came with a good few _benefits_ over the human body he'd had before. All the 'normal' people who found themselves as Cybermen felt like they had been twisted and perverted by the transformation into something they found repulsive and were driven mad by the horror of that, but Lumis saw his new form as something that was a lot like himself, only better... a true _upgrade_ of his former self. Basically, Lumis was the only one not driven mad by becoming a Cyberman because he was the only one who actually _wanted_ to be one. I'm sure he was over the moon about having a new indestructible robotic body, given how immobile and physically frail he'd been for years before.

[@leedent7260]

Was just checking to see if anyoneelse had said this, when it came up, I went to check as I would also seek a voluntary upgrade. No controlling earpieces or even any need for an emotional inhibitor. I am compatible! 🤖

[@intergalactic92]

He also didn’t get the standard body. His was a special unit specifically for him so it makes sense he would work differently.

[@Freshie207]

I think it’s also inferred Lumic/CyberController has less emotional inhibition, he seems to get frustrated in the debate with the Doctor. Heck even the fact he can have a debate seems to set him apart, all other Cybermen in those episodes take orders or give orders to humans, not autonomy whatsoever. So perhaps he never had the inhibitor installed?

[@henryg4377]

Ah yes, Lumis, my favourite character.

[@syweb2]

To be fair, he wanted to postpone his conversion for as long as possible. I distinctly remember that after his life-support is destroyed, the Cybermen decide to give him an emergency upgrade, with him complaining "No! Not until my last breath!", to which they respond "You are not breathing".

[@Neutral_Tired]

My favourite thing about cybermen is honestly the fact that they can pop up anywhere, you can give them a new backstory without overwriting the original, any civilisation could become cybermen under the right circumstances

[@gremlinwc8996]

Yeah the cybermen are more of a concept or phenomenon than a species. They can show up anywhere as long as there's the need or want to remove all mortal weaknesses and emotions

[@johnlavery3433]

I’d argue the Daleks are, in their own way, the Kaled’s cybermen

[@CineScarborough]

I really love the 'delete' catchphrase personally. It really emphasises that these are emotionless machines, what with it being like how you 'delete' a word or a sentence when typing on a computer. I wish the Cybermen would use that catchphrase again.

[@dr.feelgoodmalusphillips2475]

I personally prefer "Excellent".

[@CineScarborough]

@@dr.feelgoodmalusphillips2475 Each to their own. 'Excellent' is good but it is a strangely emotional catchphrase for the Cybermen.

[@minicle426]

Makes them sound more like wanabee Daleks.🤷‍♂️

[@legendary2553]

@@minicle426no it doesn’t lol

[@iJosh64]

My only complaint with Delete was when they chanted it. Other than that I’m cool with it.

[@logicallyblue3814]

This was the first episode of Doctor Who to properly scare me. The idea of what the Cybermen are freaked me out and the scene in the Age of Steel where the emotional inhibitors were switched off and that one Cyberman touching the mirror and screaming while the Doctor apologised really disturbed me. I was like 12 but still.

[@spilltheteaspillthetea]

Really loved the RTD era. I can always re-watch any episode from that time. To watch the old episodes from that era and comparing the show today... it's like a different show in many aspects for the worse.

[@mayotango1317]

Yeah, Chibnall kill the show.

[@beesree39]

@@mayotango1317 Moffat also felt a lot different so idk lol

[@erikalieben5476]

@@beesree39 Exactly Chibnall is awful but that doesn’t make Moffat good all of a sudden. I still can’t rewatch half of his later rubbish, it’s writing was so up its own backside.

[@elosant2061]

@@erikalieben5476 What are you talking about? Moffat was better than RTD.

[@erikalieben5476]

@@elosant2061 No he wasn't. After S6 his era was a mess

[@basicpigeonbee]

This was the only episode of Doctor who that i saw as a 6 year old. I couldn't sleep whenever it rained because it sounded like the cybermen marching for years after, the scene where the conversations took place regularly featured in my nightmares. These episodes is Doctor Who for me.

[@LukSter18998]

classic

[@Scampr_]

I feel like this story is a bit underappreciated by a lot of people, not that they think its bad, but it just gets overlooked as fine when really there's a lot of good things it does. Re-introducing the cybermen for the modern era is no easy feat and they make a great impression that is intimidating and implies their strong history to the show. When I think about the cybermen, this two-parter is what my mind defaults to, and it's probably their purest and most focused story of the modern series? I love World Enough and Time & The Doctor Falls and the aspects of the cybermen they explore, but I think this story slightly beats it out. I can kind of understand people's arguments about RTD era cybermen being too robotic, they are to an extent (which is why the additions to humanise them were always very important), but it's no question that the Moffat era design were much worse for that (the ones from S10 aside). Chibnall's feel like a median between RTD and Moffat's cybermen. I think the sweet spot would ideally be something between RTD's cybermen and the Mondasian/early classic cybermen designs. I do think you're right about there being just a little too much going on in these episodes, and because of that I am glad they didn't spend too much time exploring the potential of the parallel world part of the narrative. Though I'd love for us to get some more parallel world stories again in the future to really delve into all the possibilities it has to offer story-wise. We've had a few stories since that kind of poke at these ideas, but nothing that has dedicated itself in the way this two-parter did.

[@Shay96]

I agree, but I do think the Moffat era Cybermen had their strong points. From the first appearance of the ones that shared the Cybus design, Moffat differentiated them by showing the differences in the upgrade process, making the mechanical body more of a shell/suit and less of a machine with a human brain and some trips of shredded flesh. As for the post Nightmare in Silver incarnations, most of their upgraded abilities are reasonable for a race trying to adapt and incorporate other life forms, which in their mind are being saved. I'd argue most of the abilities they receive are fine, aide from being able to incorporate the dead. Since that could be attributed to them having access to Timelord technology, thanks to Missy. Hell, I'd even keep their ability to adapt to weaknesses on the fly, only much more slowly than they were able to do so in NiS, as that can be attributed to them using the Doctor's brain, which is a much more powerful processor. NiS version of the Cyberiad also have an interesting concept that never really gets explored, which is the relatioship between the cyber planner and the units. You could argue that the more active units at any one time, the less powerful each unit would be, depending on the strength of their processor, as it would be spread thinner, like a wifi network with more and more users creating more traffic. This is honestly something I consider an interesting way to balance these Cybermen to keep them from becoming overpowered enemies that always require some Deus-ex Machina to defeat. At least, that's what occured to me when the Cyberplanner essentially deactivated millions of Cybermen, using the additional processing power to try and figure out the Doctor's plan over a chess problem. On the other hand, fewer active units could allow them to adapt to weaknesses quicker and use that burst of speed the Cyberman displayed when first revealing itself in the episode.

[@bmvthemoviefanatic7282]

"What are they?" "Cybermen" *Breaks The Glass* CHILLS!

[@randomericthings7506]

The episode where Barty Crouch Jr meets his father.

[@StarAiden]

I will say it was nice that each new season had a chance to reintroduced a familar villain Season 1. Daleks Season 2. Cybermen Season 3. The master

[@gooseincrocs]

As someone who never heard of the cyberman until this episode due to being not even alive when they were last seen I thought the story was amazing and a brilliant reintroduction to them

[@averyeverest2980]

I honestly didn’t know that people didn’t like this episode. I thought that everyone loved this episode

[@evanmccreesh268]

IMO the best modern cyberman story is World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls, but it’s debatable

[@ospreyphil8995]

I feel like Rise of the Cybermen was more dedicated to....well....the Cybermen

[@isaacwright8211]

Phil Henderson yeah but I for one find the mondasian cybermen to be haunting, they've got the sweet spot between humanity and technology to be truly mysterious, too technological and they're essentially just robots with a couple of human attributes

[@ColourWithoutCrayola]

Completely agree. This is my opinion but not only was that the best modern cybermen story but the best doctor who story. The doctors speech against the master, knowing how these original mondasian cybermen were created... just epic

[@GoddessOfWhim2003]

no, that may have been the best Master story. it was the first multiple Master episodes and John Simm steals every scene he's in.

[@jakerockznoodles]

I agree, my second favourite is between this one and the much maligned but IMO actually pretty great The Next Doctor. While the Cybershades looked a bit silly and we had the Cybermen defeated by the power of human emotion again (seriously an overused trope in the revived series), I thought there were so many strong aspects to this story. The Cybermen were plotting schemers rather than mindless drones (and the imagery of them emerging from the mist in the graveyard was fantastic), David Morrisey was fantastic and the story itself had both swashbuckling fun and actually pretty dark moments which were handled really well. Easily the best Christmas special IMO.

[@owenhargreaves5584]

I would say that it is the best Modern-Who Cyberman story! Murray Gold's Cyberman leitmotif is also sensational and probably has helped bolster this episode to remain in such high regard!

[@hpwizardboi6516]

I think WOAT/TDF is better written, but ROTC/AOS is far more entertaining on a vastly superior level.

[@diccchocolate416]

@@hpwizardboi6516 the problem with the doctor falls is that it just becomes a master story as opposed to being a proper cyberman story.

[@mattlord97]

I feel like this story has aged incredibly well

[@Comicbroe405]

Especially with all that neuralink stuff

[@monarchist1838]

Lumic wasn’t destroyed when his emotional inhibitor was turned off because he wanted to be upgraded. However, you can tell his emotions have returned as he displays grief at the loss of his species and rage at the Doctor and his friends. He screams in terror when Pete cut the ladder and he falls to his death.

[@Jedi_Spartan]

1:13 You should have made the joke "Earth" "Earth without Lockdown" Also why did they think it would have been a good idea to call part 1 Rise of the Cybermen despite the fact they tried to hide and hint at them prior to their reveal.

[@kanashimi4356]

Ratings, the same reason they ruined the simm and cyber-men reveals of late series 10.

[@owenhargreaves5584]

Perhaps just to sustain the anticipation of what they look like. This is the first time we see the Cybermen since the show was cancelled back in '89, so knowing that they are returning, whilst hiding their initial appearance is a great way to build suspense.

[@InvisibleTower]

Same reason they called an episode "Dalek": to make people watch it.

[@obiwankenobi687]

Jedi Spartan 38 the cybus design is sooo brilliant and powerful looking

[@Jedi_Spartan]

@@obiwankenobi687 yeah, although I do wish the parallel world had more of an emphasis on cybernetics as a whole (similar to how both Spare Parts and World Enough and Time incorporated Cybermen designs into the story even for non Cybermen characters by having the chest boxes act as medical equipment) and there are times when I feel lukewarm on the design... mainly whenever I remember it generated the version seen in Torchwood Cyberwoman.

[@KnightsRealm98]

These were always my favorite Cybermen. The Classic Cybermen haven't aged well (though certain stories are very well written), and I wish we could go back to these. After Doomsday, they just dropped off the face of the universe. They were the worst part of The Next Doctor (an otherwise great episode), and until Nightmare in Silver didn't do much in the Moffat era. Even after Nightmare, they were relegated into villains of the week, never regaining the horror they once had. World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls were good Mondasian stories, and the Chibnall Era Cybermen had SO MUCH POTENTIAL which was shortly wasted and overshadowed by the Timeless Child revelation (uughhhh!). Not to mention, the Doctor was on point in this episode. (Sigh) I want this kind of Cybermen back.

[@DrKnockers05]

I remember being a kid, hearing about the return of the Cybermen before the series even began, and as much as I loved all the episodes preceding this two-parter, all I could get excited for was knowing we were one step closer to seeing the metal monsters show up. When the days finally arrived, and we got the scenes of the Cybermen crashing the party, the Doctor and Mrs Moore in the cooling tunnels, Ricky's death, the reveal of the Cyber-Controller, all are moments that have stuck with me since their premiere. The Cybus Cybers have always been my favourite model, I liked the body horror aspect behind them that would later be developed by Moffat in series 10, their voice is not too robotic but more like a slightly mechanical human voice who really has lost their emotions, and I especially love the way they kill by electrocution via touch. It's like the Veil in Heaven Sent, the Ood, even something like zombies. They have to get close to kill you, giving them a relentless vibe in that if needs be, they'll pursue you endlessly just to convert you or kill you. And don't get me started on Murray Gold's legendary theme for them. Segun Akinola's new theme is pretty good, but nothing will ever surpass Gold's theme for me.

[@bmvthemoviefanatic7282]

What a TANTALISING review. So happy this two-parter getting the love it deserves. I feel some dismiss it these days. Honestly, I feel like its as iconic as "Dalek" (Though "Dalek" better XD). The scene where Mrs Moore breaks the inhibitor of a Cyberman, revealing its a woman converted on the night before her wedding has always had a big impact on me. It really does sum up the horror of the Cybermen better than Cybermen story since. But you also got great comedic scenes like the Doc breaking out in laughter after discovering parallel Rose is a dog XD Classic Tennant.

[@gf1006]

6:06 hold up is that chris chibnall

[@XlittleXdrummerXgirl]

I've been binging these reviews; I had forgotten how good the RTD era of Doctor Who was at characterization, even the minor, one off characters had a backstory, had motivation. While maybe not three dimensional characters per sey, they were actual, distinct characters, and you could remember who they were for two-parters. There were times in the latest few series where I couldn't remember the purpose of a character five minutes after their introduction; I almost never felt that way during the RTD era.

[@minicle426]

I find it overated myself.

[@mlaird9404]

These episodes terrified me as a kid. I loved the daleks. I hated the cybermen, not because they where bad but because they scared me. I remember my first comic con where my mum wanted me to get a photo with me next to a cyberman. I refused to stand close to the poor guy wearing a suit. We had to leave early because my little sister was terrified of the scarecrows from Human Nature

[@BradTheThird]

The thing about this episode that always kills the immersion for me. Is when you see the Boom Mic operator in Mickey's Grandmother's glasses at 2:30

[@richshealer3755]

You'd really have to look hard to see that, I couldn't see it on a moderate 24" screen.

[@BradTheThird]

@@richshealer3755 Get a 25" screen and you'll never un-see it

[@richardmillhousenixon]

@@BradTheThird I can see it on my phones ~7 inch screen but I didn't notice it when watching the episode originally, and I probably wouldn't have noticed it unless it was pointed out. I would just see a human figure and figure either it's an illusion and I'm really just seeing some of the background objects or it's just another character or extra or something. Because everyone is in modern day clothing it isn't as egregious as that one movie that had a dude in shorts and a T-shirt holding a styrofoam cup in the background of a movie set in like the 1800s or whatever

[@ethanguest3438]

@@richardmillhousenixon referencing Sharpe by any chance?

[@robbiesmith8055]

The scene where Mrs Moore gets fleshed out is so great for her character, but my god watching as a kid I could not focus on a single thing but All The Cybermen They Were Casually Wandering Past That Could Wake Up At Any Moment.

[@nightowl8477]

High-concept sci-fi, reintroduction of a villain, death of a reoccurring character, leaving of a companion... *I'm not a lover of this story, but it's impressive that it could have been the finale of Series 2.*

[@JOCoStudio1]

Certainly more of a finale than some seasons have had *cough* Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos *cough*

[@nightowl8477]

@@JOCoStudio1 - yeah, exactly. A lesser season would have this two-parter be a Regeneration Finale! RTD knew what he was doing.

[@darrensmith8730]

I'm assuming it's parallel world Jackie you're referring to with the "reoccurring character death"?

[@nightowl8477]

@@darrensmith8730 - yeah, Parallel Jackie.

[@IrisGalaxis]

When you get on a bus or train or tram, and you see everyone wearing their wireless earphones, I always think of this story.

[@nightowl8477]

I love the look of this episode. Everything's a bit camp, but other than that I can't really fault Rise of the Cybermen.

[@elizabethlevesque6978]

The very first time I ever watched this two parter I think I was like 13-14. I felt like...weird for a few days after. It made me feel sick to my stomach and I never put my finger on why. I mean, I still can't and it certainly doesn't give me that same unsettling feeling anymore, but I just remember watching it, specifically the conversion scenes, and just feeling so sick and sad. Whenever I get nostalgic for older Dr. Who, this two parter is one I always go back to. This and the Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead.

[@jennasmith8062]

i was around the same age if not a bit younger and i was scared for WEEKS!! i was scared to shower because i thought the shower head would turn into a cyber converter thing 💀

[@warwickbull5559]

You can probably presume that in Pete's world, the Hindenburg disaster never happened, hence the popularity of Zeppelins in this story.

[@batmanbeyond5766]

I think the best new who cyber men story is "world enough and time" and "the doctor falls"

[@Fairly-odd-kel]

These Cybermen give me nightmares, don't even know why but they do. I love these episodes tbh

[@chefschmixer]

I just started rewatching NuWho, and I love your reviews, looking forward for more!

[@GeorgeMarionerd]

I have really vivid memories of excitedly discussing with the other kids at school about how the cliffhanger wowould be resolved, this was a time when that week's wait for the conclusion felt like an eternity. Also whenever we're feeling cold in my family, we always say to eachother "Cold. So cold. Where's Gareth."

[@jdg9825]

Cybermen haven't been scary since this ep imo Also the reason the base code didn't affect Lumic is because he didn't have an emotional inhibitor :)

[@mayotango1317]

What about the Series 10 finale... pain...pain...pain..

[@jdg9825]

@@mayotango1317 definitely creepy! a different kind of scary I suppose cos I wasn't scared of "pain" guy chasing me in my nightmares D;

[@isaacwright8211]

Jdg 98 I think that'd have more to do with age than anything,(obviously idk how old you are but) I remember being terrified of weeping angels as a kid but when I rewatch those episodes it's not really scary at all for me, I feel like if they turned up again I wouldn't be very scared

[@jdg9825]

@@isaacwright8211 you know what's weird is that as a kid watching the Davies era (I'm 22 today woop) I was always fine with stuff like the weeping angels (barring a few jump scares) and the empty child -- but I was terrified of, like, the ood and the human dalek. So high concept horror villains did nothing for me but squishy tentacles had me in tears

[@reeceperry8152]

I actually remember Series 2 really well. They were the first episodes I ever watched, it’s really fun to go back over them

[@mbarlow625]

At 5:28 in the video I noticed the cgi cyberman has a gun even thought they lack them in this story

[@flyhyland]

'This old Cyberman has had 17 new heads and 14 new handles in it's time.'

[@weronikadabek5635]

Och, that was the first episode od Dr. Who I saw! It aired on polish TV. It was so long ago, I barely remember watching the show for the first time, but I remember liking it.

[@LinguaPhiliax]

I remember watching this episode and it reminded me of Parallax, a 2004 ABC children's show which also involved parallel universes and alternate versions of different characters. It was really interesting and it also came out around the same time period which is probably why they feel so similar.

[@lilianderson8256]

i loved the cybermen growing up, they used to terrify me! i have vivid memories of nightmares anytime there was a cyberman episode, but I kept watching anyway 😂

[@kieraburgess3431]

The Lumic (not sure about spelling) cyberman isn't affected by the emotion inhibitor because he wanted to be a cyberman even when he was human When he got his human emotions back his motives remained the same

[@Galarticuno]

The machines cutting, slicing, and stabbing the humans, converting the humans to Cyberman actually properly scared me as a kid. Like, piss your pants scared.

[@jamiebowler4693]

I’ve read the unofficial diary of Graeme harper who was the director of this two parter, army of ghosts/doomsday, 42 and the brilliant Utopia. It was really cool to see how these episodes were put together and thought process behind them. Graeme Harper also helped direct, The seeds of doom, I believe. However I’m not sure but he definitely helped direct some of the classic series. Fun fact the opening to Rise of the cybermen. Was actually the last thing to be shot and was added to give a better “hook”. Which I thought was cool

[@HarboWholmes]

Harper was a production assistant on Seeds of Doom and Warriors' Gate, before directing Caves of Androzani and Revelation of the Daleks. Pretty impressive if you ask me

[@intergalactic92]

I have a huge soft spot for the 80s cybermen and would argue that, unlike the Daleks, remained a decent villain until the end. So I struggle with the modern Cybermen, especially the Delete catchphrase. That just felt like they were trying to hard to make them like Daleks. However I have gained a new appreciation for this episode recently. It is clever to set it up in a parallel world because that allows them to set brand new rules without it feeling too jarring. And Pete's World is incredibly fascinating. There are so many little details that I missed the first time around. It makes you wonder what else is going on here. And Mickey is great. I was sad he didn’t continue travelling in the TARDIS for longer, but this is a great culmination of his story arc.

[@maxa5412]

You should do these old school discussions for Torchwood too. I loved some of those episodes like the Countryside one

[@apanapandottir205]

Like, 50% of Torchwood is sooo good even tho the other 50% is absolute garbage. I love it either way.

[@DoctorWhoAdventures]

Our first Cybermen episode!! It's so similiar to The Invasion actually :o But I will always love this episode and think it's incredibly strong for the first Cybermen story of new who :D The guest characters are also particularly strong (justice for Mrs Moore!!) :)

[@-Berry.]

That Cybus guy looks like an old Rowan Atkinson

[@harry_page]

He also plays Trigger in Only Fools and Horses and Barty Crouch in HP and the Goblet of Fire

[@paddystrongjaw9995]

harys_john “alright Dave”

[@macthedarkknight9020]

Thanks for this awesome video! These are my favorite episodes of season 2. Not to mention Graeme Harper's fantastic, energetic direction.

[@danm3882]

Just want to say thank you helping me through lockdown with your videos. Really appreciate it and love your video essays!

[@whereverover]

it was the first episode I ever watched back in 2011. And I remember that despite not knowing any of the context AT ALL I was just on theedge of my seat the whole story through. Rewatched it just yesterday. Still holds up pretty well

[@marelangille648]

The conversion scene gave me nightmares as a kid

[@erinella]

Mickey Smith and Rory Williams are the kings of character development 👑

[@JoesAnimationHub]

When I look at cosmically, it I notice a few minor parallels between "Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel" and "Revelation of the Daleks", a crazy villain using his money to fund the creation of his monsters, a bit of dark humour here and there, both are directed by Graeme Harper, and ironically both have Colin Spaull (Tranquil Repose's Lilt and Cybus Industries' Mr. Crane) in the cast.

[@C-OBrien]

Everything else aside this is easily the best design of a cyberman ever, the old ones look too cheap, the new ones are too slick, these look like genuine war machines as well as being far more realistic

[@the4bestgame]

I think the reason the cyber controller doesn't destroy themselves after the code happens is because they where always fine with it. Unlike the others this is something that Lumic WANTED

[@ontos8914]

"Im free as a bird, a cyber bird" best thing from the who bloopers

[@jimmyandrews3963]

The irony being that Apple’s UK HQ is Battersea Powerstation isn’t lost

[@lauriegardner8377]

I feel this episode is so underrated I actually enjoyed it a lot

[@apanapandottir205]

As cheesy as alot in these episodes are, it has so much good stuff with Mickey, the relationsship between the doc and rose/mickey, introducing Pete 2 and so on. Meeting parallel versions of yourself and/or family is pretty great stuff.

[@danrog729]

I think we can all agree that Mickey learnt the hax in this episode

[@tomKATT92]

I loved this story, one of the better Doctor Who seasons imo as well. Also funny to see even before HP4, Barty Crouch & Barty Crouch Jr are fighting

[@ftumschk]

Excellent video. I really love this two-parter, but I could have done without the robotic movements and the stomping sound-effect!

[@jennasmith8062]

upon rewatch i find lumic’s campy evilness kind of fitting. hes a weird, cold, out of touch ultra rich old dude. hes gonna be a lil off lol

[@ShaunakDesaiPiano]

Also remember, “Ricky” is what the Ninth Doctor would always call Mickey to annoy him, which makes the fact that his parallel self is called Ricky facepalm-worthy.

[@michaeltaylor4375]

Harbo, you make alot of great dedicated vids, and you have raised some good valid points, and rise of the cybermen is NOT a bad story in itself........However, what so many people miss about the Cybermen is, they've always (and always will be) at their scariest when the show reminds people that they are butchered, altered human beings, not just only "big scary robots". Now, it's true that Rise does this alot better than almost every story in new who (or almost any story of the classic series even...) but,, at the end of the day, the scary part of the Cybusmen is the loss of peoples identity and humanity, and because they're...well....big, scary, intimidating robots. The people who really know how to make a truly terrifying cyberman story (and it took moffat a very long time...) know that you have to blurr that line between man and machine. I mean....The series 10 finale goes out of its way to be disturbing and chilly. The "PAIN" scene alone makes the "upgrade" scene in Rise look like a babys show, in comparison, and thats just that one part. Rise is definitely more mainstream and "audience friendly", but it doesn't make you feel much of a chill, or even a little sick. I dont even know what made moffat suddenly decide to write something so unsettling after all the years of crap he usually tended to churn out. And...Also, MOST people actually love the Cybusmen 2 parter. your videos seem to focus on finding good things in underrated stories, but actually, its the 60's cybermen that got laughed at and mocked and everyone used to say how "cool" the Cybusmen are....Which, they are. But disturbing? I think thats a little straw graspy. Soz for the essay. I know I outta get a life. XD

[@h0llowhouse453]

Does anyone remember the pink floyd reference?? The doctor says something like “they walk in their like sheep” Sheep was a song on the album ‘Animals’ which famously has battesy power station (the blimp place) as the album cover 🤯🤯

[@willangel2745]

nice episode, always loved the cybermen

[@natasha8966]

Mickey knew he’d the third wheeler when he came onboard the tardis, don’t know why he’s so surprised that the doctor chose rose

[@tomg5187]

This channel always makes good points, I liked this episode a lot! 😄👍

[@LibertyBridgeProductions]

I’d say it’s 100% the best Cyberman story.

[@zachh6868]

True, that cyban theme is great

[@mayotango1317]

To bad that is more focus in Rose Tyler's family that in the Cybermen.

[@darrensmith8730]

I actually thought they were pretty evenly split.

[@GwenSpanner]

How do you do videos with clips from the show?, I put like 5 seconds of an episode of doctor who in a video of mine and it got taken down

[@masonwells990]

It's nice to not have someone rant about how there just zombies, and actually say good stuff

[@keskonriks710]

While i think world enough and time is the best nuwho cybermen story, i also think this two parter is criminaly underrated

[@greghawkins59]

I think the base code thing doesn't affect lumic because he already knows

[@alim.9801]

The Big Metal Stompy Bois are for sure my fave Doctor Who monster

[@EmoBearRights]

I kinda always liked this I'm glad I'm not alone.

[@godricktheminecrafted3113]

I don’t really get people’s complaints about the cyber controller, the cybermen are Lumic’s creation, and he’s extremely intelligent why wouldn’t he make himself superior to them when he very clearly has the capacity to?

[@CyberDoctor-tc8tc]

Great video! Force Daleks video on the dream lord is like this it’s really good as well I recommend it!

[@Joemama55122]

Underrated? Ah never thought of that its always been one of my faves but never asked anyone

[@mayotango1317]

Is more a Rose episode that a Cybermen episode.

[@iJosh64]

Honestly while I think the 60s Cybermen are a bit more eerie, I never really had an issue with the robot look of these ones.

[@mimiHTcat]

this episode scared me a lot as a kid

[@diggy8191]

"the cowardly idiot who was terrified of the tardis in rose" 'in rose' very poor choice of words

[@maidframe]

9:04 sort of reminds me of a cut scene from the offworld games

[@AnalyzewithAstephen]

Great review!!!

[@tinykemper2561]

I really like these videos, you could say that I'm, *hungry* for them.

[@nextstop-everywhere]

Don't forget that we could have had a gay relationship in these episodes if the BBC weren't cowards... Alternate universe Mickey had a boyfriend!

[@OtakuJuanma2]

Elon Musk: chip in your brins so you can listen to music any time. Whovians: NOPE!!!

[@LadyDoomsinger]

The only thing that bothers me about the concept of the Cybermen is the insistence on the theme of "technology bad" or "overreliance on technology bad". The problem of cybermen, in my opinion, was never that they were technologically advanced, rather than in the process of advancement they discarded the very essence of being human. The best solution to this, I feel, would be a Cybermen episode focused on a civil war of the Cybermen, where one faction are the unified, unfeeling, "classic" cybermen that we know, while the opposing faction could be a group of Cybermen that value and preserve individuality and emotion, as key components in being human, rather than purely machine. It would perhaps be a bit too "two sides of the argument" to set it up like that, but I still feel it would present a more nuanced theme regarding the dangers and potential benefits of technology.

[@imadeadmeme9429]

This will be Apple in about 30-40 years

[@martinhudecek8886]

Definitely silver medal in status after the daleks gold

[@alfiethomas5632]

Honestly my only gripe with this story is some of the dialogue. It's a really good plot, and I think it's fairly well developed given the amount of stuff it has to do. But some of the offhand filler lines that don't really contribute anything to the story kind of grate on me; they sound like they came out of some American 90s generic sci-fi. Other than that it's brilliant

[@tardisnet9487]

The Cybermen are my favourite villains but I've never liked this story. Without the Mondas backstory for me they are less interesting. I like everything with Mickey and how it tries to update the Cybermen with technology but it doesn't work for me and an origin story was unnecessary. I think the Cybermen feel overly robotic and showing them as this unstoppable army for me takes away from what makes them scary with their humanity and trying to provoke an emotional response through Jackie just felt overly simplistic to me. Revisiting the Pete and Jackie storyline also felt unnecessary to me as it was already fully wrapped up in Fathers Day. For me the Cybermen never really worked in the modern era until World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls and The Haunting of Villa Diodati but I do really love Mickey's goodbye at the end of the story which brings his character full circle

[@thewhovianhippo7103]

Yay my favourite character's and I have no idea why

[@jamesalflattsbarkingmadpro3480]

So safe to say this could even have made a good three parter?