Is Thomas & the Magic Railroad really THAT bad?

[@LaBellesGrace]

With the recent announcement of Britt Allcroft’s passing, I stand by my words more than ever before; especially after receiving a not so nice comment just a few weeks ago that’s since been deleted. My heart is saddened at the mere thought that she, nor the fans and the many people (both living and passed on) whom put their blood, sweat and tears into this work were never able to get closure that was absolutely vital when it came to this movie. I could only hope the fandom and curious movie outsiders from this point onwards will give some grace to Britt. Even if you don’t agree with every choice she made; she in the end of the day, and much like the rest of us, was a human being with her own thoughts and ideas. Sometimes an idea works when translating to from our minds into real life and sometimes they don’t. It’s simply part of the job of bringing a creative. TATMR didn’t work in the grand scheme of things, but one “bad egg” shouldn’t be enough to rock the cradle to the floor, and I firmly stand by the fact that Britt Allcroft didn’t deserve to feel such dreadful shame and humiliation. An artists worst nightmare. Constructive criticism is *always* welcomed here, and I wish to be very clear about that; *ALL* opinions are valid and no more important than the other. However, there is a line to be drawn when it comes to bringing in the creator. Please, be kind and considerate when expressing your feelings. The lights will forever remain green for Britt’s glory. Her inspiring legacy shall live on through our mission to continue spreading the message that storytelling, life lessons, imagination and a little bit of Gold Dust can change a child’s world. 🙏

[@bendyDanielW]

Rest in peace BRITT ALLCROFT we love you for changing our lives forever with the beloved number 1 Blue tank engine,THOMAS.💙

[@MilesL.auto-train4013]

Say what you want about the movie, the score is freaking FIRE.

[@Capdiabetes2]

I agree

[@samsea0489]

That l can agree on despite my dislike for the film

[@masterJ2004]

Facts.

[@jackmonaghan8477]

Although considering he was originally set to compose the score, it would have been interesting to see what John Barry would have come up with.

[@silviasorto4325]

Bro, stop stop stop

[@JonathanAsiamah]

Thomas and the Magic Railroad was one of my favourite movies as a child. I watched it endlessly. It may not be perfect, but it still remains in my memory. Excellent review! Great work!

[@epicmoon8874]

Same

[@aliminator1310]

Honestly, this is probably one of my favorite Thomas reviews from a non Thomas channel, it's very well researched and really hits home a lot of things I liked about the movie and the series.

[@aliminator1310]

I was a MASSIVE Thomas fan growing up, and LOVED Magic Railroad! I always found it weird how the fandom hated it, though I understood why after watching some of the reviews. Though, that didn't stop me from loving it!

[@Thomasfan11]

Me too

[@roberttreacy8271]

Me three.

[@Nerfherder219]

As an adult, I'm a bit harsher on the final product. However, in saying that, it's still very entertaining. I'd be lying to myself if I didn't say that I rewatched this movie countless times as a kid. The premise is a bit odd, and the story is kinda jank, but you can tell that Allcroft wanted to entertain children with this, just like with the show. Rest well, Britt. Thank you.

[@joelcartagena953]

Just FYI Thomas & Friends The Royal Engine came out in 2020. Which was the 75TH anniversary of the franchise.

[@LaBellesGrace]

Ahh, thank you for the correction!!

[@joelcartagena953]

@LaBellesGrace and in case you didn't know. The episode was written by Michael White aka Whitehouse Films. Also part of me actually think that it'd be fine if TATMRR was canon to the TV series. But only done correctly and how the fans would love it.

[@joshslater2426]

I grew up with Magic Railroad; I liked it but acknowledged that the live action stuff was weird. Being from the UK I didn’t know of Shining Time Station, yet somehow I never once questioned who Mr. Conductor was and the teleportation stuff. There are two pros of the film: the score is very good, as are the songs, and the model work for the bits actually featuring Thomas and his railway are true to the original series. Yes the film isn’t the best thing ever made, but I can’t bring myself to hate it even though a lot of the cut stuff like PT Boomer would’ve made it better.

[@sodorpro]

Interesting video, one main problem with the movie was the inclusion of 'Shining Time Station'. The issue is that the show only aired in the U.S. so people in other places, where the show was hyper popular, like Japan and the U.K. would have 0 clue what any of this Mr. Conductor stuff is, as the film relies, that us the audience to have some prior knowledge of what Shining Time is. That and the show was canceled one year before the movie, so even more people coming into this, on the U.S. side in particular, would be lost in who any of these humans are. Even with the original script, the problem is the lack of Thomas and Sodor being the main focus, because when you strip the film back and look at the basic plot, Thomas is so inconsequential in the grand scheme of things that you could remove him/ Sodor from it, and the plot wouldn't be that different. Good video, but those are mainly the 2 big issues with the film. If there's any good things that came from this film was it's score, Diesel 10, possibly one of the most popular and iconic characters/ villains in the franchise, and it being the only film in the hole franchise to be created by the very same people who produced the first 5 seasons.

[@Imaranga176]

Ur right I’m an Aussie and had no idea about shining time station, and the fact that I’m a 2010s girl

[@harwickbranch]

Hell I was already lost because shining time station was already dead by then

[@Imaranga176]

@@harwickbranch yea same

[@TheCreepersGood]

I don’t think adding Shining Time Station was a bad idea in concept, but they don’t elaborate on it at all in the movie.

[@supermariof0521]

I actually had ideas for a rewrite for this movie that removes the magic, removes "Shining Time Station", makes Thomas the main focus, and reworks the story to feel like its set in the same reality as the TV series. I call it "Thomas and the Lost Engine".

[@David_Mattox]

Interesting. If you ever write a fan fiction based on this, or film something with Trainz, please let me know. If anything, I would’ve taken heavy inspiration from Flying Scotsman’s USA Tour for Thomas’ first feature length film.

[@supermariof0521]

@@dylanlyles9453 I had a similar idea. Except it involves Thomas and Percy traveling to the other railway to bring Lady back to Sodor before Boomer and Diesel 10 gets her.

[@dylanlyles9453]

@@supermariof0521 Well, I think that sounds too similar to Escape. My version of it has more lore to Lady's history because the place where Thomas finds her is an old line she used to ran in Killaban, to add more world-building to Sodor just like Season 5

[@supermariof0521]

@@dylanlyles9453 That's kinda what I was aiming for. A New take on "Escape", but on a grander scale.

[@dylanlyles9453]

@@supermariof0521 Okay, but what's wrong with my version?

[@bendyDanielW]

Love the video. I really like seeing people give Thomas and the magic railroad some love.

[@thesudriana016]

Thomas & the Magic Railroad is my favorite Thomas movie - of course, it's been subject to a lot of criticism and debate among people, critics, other Thomas fans, etc (and it's valid, and even I admit there are a few things that may come off as rather odd) but I still enjoy it for what it is. As a kid, even the stuff like Edward not appearing and the Sodor humans not appearing does confuse me. Looking at the production side of things, I prefer the May 1999 draft over the Workprints cause of how scenes are re-arranged for some strange reason in the latter and I do like the final cut of the movie too (even though I think PT Boomer, George and Cranky could've definitely stayed in the film). I enjoyed other aspects of the film such as the model work, the sets, the music, Diesel 10 (being my favorite villain) and the voice actors (except James' final voice to which I think Michael Angelis could've stayed on as him even in the final cut and even the original VAs for Thomas, Percy, D10 and Splodge don't work for me including the temp voices). At the end of the day it is still a nostalgia treasure is what I'd like to call it - and there is passion put into it because of how dedicated Britt Allcroft and the cast/crew members are when it comes to their work - even Britt admits that it was a balancing act cause outside the TVS, working on a film is something that's never been done before which I agree.

[@tommytrainsbauerawesome9082]

Now that was an excellent video explaining about Thomas and the Magic Railroad, it may not have been the best movie by the end results, but it still holds a special place in my heart for how it turned out with the voice cast of characters and how some of the characters actually are portrayed just like their Season 1 to 5 personas!! And how I’ll always treasure the memories since I first watched this! I think you explained it quite well Annabel! Well done! 😁👏🏻

[@LaBellesGrace]

Thank you Tommy! You were one of the people I kept thinking of as I was making the video, so I am glad to hear you enjoyed it :)

[@tommytrainsbauerawesome9082]

@@LaBellesGraceYou’re quite welcome Annabel! Hope you have been doing very well! 😃

[@mr.classic3146]

It’s definitely not the worst Thomas movie. Sure the plot is a mess but there is that charm with the engines, and the score itself is phenomenal. I guess you could argue it’s so bad but it’s so good at the same time, it’s kinda like the 2003 movie The Room.

[@kerrygligorovic9758]

When I first watched Thomas and the Magic Railroad many years ago I though that there would more characters like Edward, Duck, Donald Douglaus, Bill, Ben. Oliver and the rest of the characters but unfortunely that never happened, plus I was expecting to see Gordon, Henry, James, Percy and Toby at the end of the movie with Thomas and Lady.

[@RJ-Makes-Things]

I actually love the classic series and the rws But I also love tatmr I love both I do think they can coexist

[@gkingGabe72]

Thomas and the Magic Railroad felt more like The Shining Time Station Movie than a Thomas the Tank Engine Movie. Shining Time Station is an show exclusive to America. So Thomas fans all over the world were very confused wheb the movie focuses on these live action human characters they've never seen before instead of the talking trains that they know and love. Even American Thomas fans like me who were born after STS ended and stopped airing were extremely confused to by the human characters. I fell bad that Britt Allcroft had to step down from her own company due to the bad press the movie got, but she was passionate when it came to making The Magic Railroad.

[@mastertrolley669]

I love TATMR so much so im glad there is someone who likes as much as i do (i have a D10 and Lady toy still to this day)

[@glauciarochelle]

my theory for thomas and the magic railroad universe i think the movie and the reboot all engines go are the same universe here my reasons 1 the engines can drive himselfs without the driver 2 gordon's voice actor is the same guy who voiced dissel10 3 thomas is the only who still used the classic whistle sound 4 cranky is now present in the show becuse in the movie we just see your button not the face 5 Edward is back on sodor 6 the show its just a joke for fans just sales more toys and discontinue the classic cgi trackmaster toys with no reason

[@mastertrolley669]

@glauciarochelle possiblu

[@roberttreacy8271]

Everyone has that one movie that’s widely panned but they have a such a soft spot for it regardless. For me, TATMR is that movie. It may have its issues, but I’ll always have a special place in my heart for it.

[@epicmoon8874]

Ik the movie isnt a good thomas movie but it always will have a special place in my heart

[@CaptainCat101]

I was obsessed with Thomas and Friends as a kid, so that made Magic Railroad my favorite movie by default. I knew it had problems, but I didn't think movies could be bad. Nowadays, the movie fascinates me. It's not good, the plot is a mess, and Britt Alcroft missed the point of Thomas' appeal by adding Magic. But on the other hand, the actual train stuff is nice, the score is amazing, and Diesel 10 is a cool character.

[@mlgodzilla4206]

It’s a childhood classic for me. But it certainly hasn’t aged well, like it tried to mash up the original show and its Americanized counterpart thus adding previously nonexistent magic. At least Deisel 10 and the music was good

[@GreatWestern175]

So as someone who grew up with the original series based off of the books by Awdry, I watched the film at age 11 in 2000. I did notice it isn't perfect as a film, but I didn't lambast it. Over the years, I weirdly appreciate the film more. Mainly because Thomas changed from models to CGI and now to even more horrible CGI. As a result of them changes I do give the film credit to being faithful to the models and sets. I understand Brit Allcroft did the best she could to make a decent Thomas film, it just didn't turn out as well as she had hoped for.

[@Noah-ey5zf]

Thomas The Tank Engine seems like a childish show, but it has a super complicated history and lore (this movie being part of that)

[@TheLazyFusspot_3428]

But let's not forget that the core appeal of Thomas is its charm. Within the characters, stories and sequences, you name it.

[@bradleyhauertheedtruncanfa5020]

No, it's not that bad. In fact, it's *WAY* better than most of the films that came out this year like Megamind vs. the Doom Syndicate, Saving Bikini Bottom: The Sandy Cheeks Movie, Madame Webb, Borderlands, Joker 2, and a lot more. TATMR has a lot of flaws, but I just *CAN'T* grow myself to hate it, it's just too charming and fun for me to hate it! Also, Diesel 10 was just the Thomas equivalent of someone like Jack Horner, DIO or Mrs. Trunchbull where they're entertaining yet *really* threatening and evil at the same time and I LOVED him for that. Shame his character was b*stardized in the TV show...

[@TheCreepersGood]

Thomas and the Magic Railroad certainly had passion put into it, but had too many flaws keeping it down. It’s not my favorite Thomas movie by a long shot, but I can see what Britt Alcroft was going for.

[@T.N.M.-2005.]

I don't revisit it often, but i have nostalgia for it

[@AlexSerrano-b3h]

I loved the show growing up. But after reading the original stories. I don't like all the changes Britt Allcroft made to much magic and crap that it didn't need.

[@kaijukid1443]

While I admit this movie has quite a few problems, calling it one of the worst movies is a little too far

[@TrevortheTrainFan]

Awesome defense! I give the movie an overall 7.5/10. I think it’s good, but could’ve been a lot better if they hadn’t cut out PT Boomer, kept some of the original voice cast such as Keith Scott as Diesel 10, or at least give Edward an honorable mention in the script. But those are just a few examples of flaws.

[@Imaranga176]

I was born at the start of the 2010s, and one morning my brother got the dvd out to watch it and had no idea about it buy still, I used to love this movie, one of my all time faves but I still dont get why it’s so heavily criticised in the fandom

[@zacquinn]

Brilliant video! just subbed, keep up the great work!

[@LaBellesGrace]

Thank you! :)

[@whatnotandstuff]

When i got a job in 2021, my first day was on the day thomas and the magic railroad premiered: july 26. So every july 26, i watch the 20th anniversary bluray while also celebrating another year of working. I even wanted to remake the movie with og wooden railway toys. However, the og wooden railway trains are expensive. So far i got thomas, henry both are from 2001 and james from 1995. Wooden funnel with flat magnets and all. No matter what people say, it'll forever be one of my favorite movies. Along with the wiggles movie, and spiderman 3. Yep, spiderman 3.

[@AdeenProductions10]

Do you mean 2001?

[@whatnotandstuff]

@RimsOfGold if you're referring to when i got a job, i mean 2021. For wooden railway thomas and henry, i mean 2001 for them.

[@whatnotandstuff]

@@AdeenProductions10 but, i think my wooden railway thomas is from 2000, i can't really remember. It's been 3 years since i bought it, but yeah.

[@fairlyoddenginecreations]

hell yeah girl this was my comfort movie

[@otaking3582]

It's a movie featuring Shining Time Station that barely uses any of its characters, and the one that's integral to the plot, Mr Conductor, isn't even played by the same actor. Whoever decided to not include Schemer should've been fired.

[@c.pariah1142]

Actually the team behind the An Unlikely Fandom stated that Britt Allcroft considers the movie canon to the rest of the show. Not that she has any say now on whether or not it is, just putting it out there.

[@mastermaker352]

I think Thomas and the Magic Railroad beats Big World! Big Adventures! by a wide margin,but the overall best Thomas and Friends movie in my opinion is the Great Discovery!

[@mrgeebers]

If I was going to reboot the Thomas I would make it a 2D Storybook John T Kenny illustration style and strictly stick to the Railway Series stories and Canon. (Maybe not strict as some elements like dialog and some stories will be altered a bit but still have the same message and some episodes would be having original episodes that would tie in well to the Books)

[@theholygamer969]

Yes. Absolutely. Kenney had easily the best illustrations. I think a lot of his expressions even inspired the faces of the trucks in the model series.

[@Daansstuff-alt]

I think its both overrated and overhated and the same time since most people either love it or hate it. And i just think its alright.

[@Bluebird-b3q]

I'm pretty sure the only reason why people hate this movies because it barely had anything to do with the title character.

[@quasimodoandfievel1871]

diesel 10 was broken from carrying this entire film

[@AdeenProductions10]

3:16 I really don’t know how you’d get a multiple ton steam engine to travel the world and meet different race engines, and in my opinion, they should’ve diversified the humans. If I’m being honest, I don’t think I ever saw a black or brown station master, driver, manager, conductor, or figure like sir topham hatt in the show that wasn’t Caucasian. Sure the show takes place in 1950’s Britain, but it’s a much more sensible approach to adding diversity to Sodor instead of what that spinoff tried doing.

[@spearmintpony7105]

The mayor was black.

[@IanThePeanutsAndSanrioFan]

I loved the movie as a kid. Still have a big soft spot for it today! Even if it is flawed

[@terrierproductions26]

I really enjoy this movie. It has problems but there are so many great things in this movie that makes up for it.

[@jackmonaghan8477]

It would have also been better if they had maintained elements from the original workprint like Boomer and Michael Angelis's voice for James. Hell they also missed an opportunity to get Ringo Starr to voice one of the characters.

[@thomasfan2587]

i feel your pain here. i loved tatmr as a kid and i still do. it isn't perfect by any means. but its 10 times then that all engines go crap!

[@matthewhutchinson9353]

You’re saying what I’ve been saying for years

[@CherylBeatrice-j4x]

PENNY SICK COLD FEVER ❤

[@LaBellesGrace]

I am unfortunately confused by what you mean lol 😩

[@BonkzOG]

I feel like it got to much hate 😭😭😭

[@Skyehye3113]

It’s just not Thomas it missed the essence of what Thomas is

[@AdeenProductions10]

Thomas the tank engine season 4&5 has the best score ever let alone visuals

[@Marrianne415]

I love this movie! (I am sure its mostly nostalgia, but I still enjoy it)

[@harrisonallen651]

Interesting to see a pretty girl like you doing a review of a guilty pleasure movie for most of this adult fandom. Also I’ve got the Australian vhs on display on my bedroom shelf!

[@Steamboatproductions37]

As in Thomas fan, I could see only the Thomas stuff in. It is good.

[@dylanlyles9453]

I don't think it's all bad. As Schaffrillas Productions said in his Rise of Skywalker review; "To quote Rich Evans, 'For the record, I don't think this is terrible, it's sporadically interesting'.". It wasn't necessary for Shining Time Station to clash with the Thomas universe, I know Britt Allcroft just wanted to do something creative for a Thomas movie, but this is not the way to do it. It doesn't feel like Thomas with magic involved. I think the subplot with Lily and Burnett would have worked if it didn't involve magic and if they were British residents on Sodor. I think a story involving the bond of a girl and her grandfather should have been more compelling, especially when the grandpa was grieving the loss of his wife and needed to go through some emotional baggage. Lady doesn't have to be a magical engine; she could just be an old engine that needs to be restored and with a real-life basis. Sodor should be more real and British with real-life humans instead of wooden figures and the engines should NOT drive themselves. The Thomas Characters from seasons 1-5 should've appeared and cameoed. Sir Topham Hatt should have more involvement in the film instead of being the Phone Guy (FNAF reference LOL), the same goes for Thomas, he's in the title and should have more screen time along with his friends. Lily should be a well-written character and have more of a personality instead of asking a dog which train to take which is ridiculous, the same goes for Burnett. And the deleted villain P.T. Boomer should've been more of a better-written and compelling character to be THE FIRST human villain in the Thomas & Friends universe, the first human to ever want to scrap an engine, and most importantly the one who owns and operates Diesel 10. Speaking of Diesel 10, I hate the final cut version of him, it had more to do with magic and Mr. Conductor. And what's with Diesel 10's voice in the final cut? It's too cartoony and too American for a British-built diesel. The original cut with Keith Scott voicing him sounds way better and British. And I also hate the final cut because of Percy and James' voices, they sound too girly! They're guys! What the hell?! And I also hate the trend of Gordon being mean in the movie and the rest of the series! He and Thomas formed an alliance together, "United we stand, together we fall. You help me, and I help you." DOES THAT RING A BELL?! And Henry should NOT use special coal anymore! And the chase that led to the big viaduct seems dangerous in my opinion, it should've led to a smaller bridge that's breaking and needs repairs.

[@WoodenRailwayWonderland]

I agree Thomas and the magic railroad is not terrible and there are way worse Thomas specials. But let’s be honest fan or not everyone trying to deny it’s existence because from every angle you look at it magic railroad can not fit with the rest of the show literally everything from it is ignored afterwards. There’s no magic railroad no shining time no Mr conductor no talking tumbleweed ever again. And diesel 10 and lady have entirely different contexts for existing. And let’s be honest guys who hasn’t tried to work around magic railroad when putting diesel ten into their series. It’s not that I’m saying it’s bad and that you shouldn’t like that’s fine if you do.

[@theislandofsodorfilmstudio4975]

There actually is a chance the finalized original cut of the film might get leaked next year. I'm referring to the chase scene clip with PT Boomer and with the original voice cast that's more completed than the one that was in the leaked Workprint in 2020. I'm not saying that's definitely going to happen or anytime soon, I just giving prediction because whenever an anniversary happens for TATMR, something from the original cut of the film gets leaked. In the 2015 the chase workprint clip was leaked again without the dark city music during the 15th anniversary, and in 2020 the full test workprint was leaked during the 20th anniversary. Although there has been whispers that this version came from a bootleg copy of TATMR. Maybe this version might come out, who knows. Here's a link. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fX3clHaue95-jtk

[@pennysanchez7656]

The Thomas equivalent to Wish......only somewhat better?

[@absurdartist6346]

Omg I thought this was a fever dream

[@williampj3573]

Yeah you heard my man/KZbin partner Trevor Davis Would say they need to finally finished the film With the directors cut whites after they end the dc controversy After they taking down the link from the directors cut of this movie And you know what I mean they will finally release this With the directors cut on DVD for the 80th anniversary celebration For the Thomas the tank engine franchise Yeah I know nostalgia critic never grow up with Thomas But he only grew up with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Including Tom and Jerry and loony tunes Even after I had a argument with him when I watch his review On this and has other reviews on movies And after I apologise to him and phantom strider For my actions but I know they didn’t hear me when I watch the videos And sometimes we have a chat on their comments right after we begin to work out very well Together but they didn’t answer me after I leave my comments down to them Because they’re busy and they’re popular KZbinrs but luckily I have Trevor Davis We both have a great chemistry together as the unknown KZbinrs And after I figure out what he was saying about Mattel and all engines go After I was at first disagree with him about Mattel and all engines go And other movies and shows but I do this time since last year And we both have me a great team after I release my 40th anniversary tribute Posters for Thomas and friends from my community And one more thing Mattel should’ve continued while big world big adventures left off With Thomas go to Japan 🇯🇵 and that’s what Trevor would said So as soon as Hasbro will cancel that terrible reboot all engines trash And Mattel will sale the rights of Thomas to them and Mattel went bankrupt And then Hasbro Will bring back the original Thomas and continued big world big adventures With Thomas go to Japan and gave the series a much better note Right after Thomas has became My Little Pony‘s new neighbours

[@FreighttrainDaniel1225]

It’s better than bwba and all engines go onwards

[@masterJ2004]

No.

[@LaBellesGrace]

Ohh, but yes indeed. ;)

[@masterJ2004]

@LaBellesGrace (I was answering the question btw)

[@LaBellesGrace]

@@masterJ2004 ahh, got it! 👍

[@astarlitproduction]

choo choo mutherfukah

[@Monog4]

The reason why Magic Railroad is bad is because of many reasons 4 plot lines, random characters that add nothing to the plot including Lily all she does is follow a random dog onto a train goes to sodor for no reason and makes the gold dust useless character Thomas is not the main character in a movie where his name is in the godamn title yes its nostalgic and watchable but its not a good movie

[@LaBellesGrace]

While I do agree that the biggest issue with the film is the fact that nothing was able to be properly explored and utilised - I also do believe heavily that many things were against Brit and the teams’ favour since the start of production. It would only makes since that higher ups meddling only sabotaged and deeply affected the end result. Lily and the other characters *had* something to do within the story. If only PT Boomer was allowed to stay in the final version. However, that wasn’t necessarily the point I was trying to make; since everyone has already covered the workprint. What counts as a good or bad movie is down to that of the viewer - neither your opinion nor mine is subjectively the wrong answer. Nostalgia aside, I personally think the movie as it is, is a decent enough simple children’s feel-good fantasy movie that stands on its own merit - even outside the franchise. Though, the potential was definitely there and that ultimately is what led the movie to its own unfortunate downfall.

[@Railroaders_For_Life]

Well... It's too much for me to explain, but I have a theory that TATMR takes place during Season 2

[@Monog4]

​@The_East_Charleston_Railway nice head cannon but its non cannon

[@theholygamer969]

I beg to differ on the why. It was bad because Allcroft was either trying to turn Thomas into something it was never meant to be, or she was disingenuously trying to pitch her own original story and claim to her audience that it was Thomas, because no one would have been as interested if the story was its own thing. Or, as a third option, she genuinely thought this was good for the show. She either A) knowingly lied to her audience, B) wanted to change the existing story to meet HER vision, going against the wishes of the man who wrote the original books, or C) she just didn't understand the core identity and appeal of the Railway Series. None of these look good on her. Frankly, it's no wonder Wilbert Awdry became skeptical of her as the show went on. If he suspected that she would try to change his story, she must have given off some warning signs.

[@milestinker2178]

Warning: This is going to be a LONG message. So long that I'll have to split it in two, with the second one as a reply to the first. I grew up watching Thomas on Shining Time Station in the early '90s. It was through Shining Time Station that I got into Thomas to begin with. When that show went off the air in the mid-90s, there was no other way for me to watch Thomas besides VHS tapes, and I only ever got to see episodes from the first four model series back then. When this movie came out, I was shocked and thrilled to see the world of Shining Time Station incorporated into it, as I had never expected to ever see it returned to ever again. Sitting in the movie theater, my jaw dropped upon hearing the words, "Hello. I'm Mr. Conductor." That said, however, while I still do find this movie, warts and all, incredibly nostalgic (the music score, especially, is amazing), it is very frustrating to me as not only a Thomas movie (for all the obvious reasons that I'm sure you've heard ad nauseum) but for just how much of the preestablished lore and continuity from Shining Time Station that the movie got wrong, contradicted, or outright ignored. The movie talks so much about how there's magic in the world that is vital to maintaining the stability and harmony of the entire universe. That was _never_ a thing in Shining Time Station. In that show, the only magic that existed was confined entirely to just Mr. Conductor (and his family members), certain aspects of the station itself (like the Anything Tunnel in the station's mural), and a local wishing well that was mentioned a few times but never actually seen (its magic was twice brought into the station by Mr. C). The entire valley, let alone the entire universe, was never portrayed as anything more than just an ordinary world (much like how the world of Thomas & Friends was), with the magic being not a _feature_ but a _quirk._ The Magic Railroad itself being vital to the world's existence is something that the movie made up. Admittedly, the STS show was very light on fleshing out the lore of the Conductor Family and their relation to the Island of Sodor. But what _was_ known was that the Conductors simply traveled to Sodor and back to Shining Time Station (as well as to other destinations) via their Magic Dust's teleportation ability. There was never anything about the Conductor Family being some kind of guardians who help to maintain the balance and order of the entire universe. It was never that kind of "fate of the world is at stake" type of show. As such, the world of Shining Time seen in the movie also feels only _superficially_ similar to how it was in the show. Namely, the fact that the town itself is even named "Shining Time" at all is something that the show barely ever acknowledged. Outside of the town sign seen in the theme song, the show only ever referred to the town's name a small number of times (two or three, at most), while the movie makes such a big deal about it for seemingly only one reason: To shallowly draw attention to the fact that this movie is a crossover between Thomas & Friends and Shining Time Station. In the show, the whole valley was given greater significance than the town. Known as Indian Valley, it was home to the Indian Valley Railroad, on which all trains that visited Shining Time Station traveled. In the movie, the name "Indian Valley" is only ever seen on the side of Billy's engine, the Rainbow Sun, while "Indian Valley Railroad" is only _barely_ visible on Billy's map of the valley that Patch looks at. It's like the show and movie swapped the significance between the name of the town and the name of the valley and its railroad. "Indian Valley Railroad" went from being a vital aspect of the show to a mere Easter egg/footnote in the movie, and vice versa with the town being named "Shining Time". Two deleted scenes from the movie claim that "Shining Time" is an old railway term that refers to the beginning of a journey, when an engine's wheels start to spin and the rails shine. That goes completely against the final episode of Shining Time Station's third season. Titled "How the Station Got Its Name", the episode established that the station was named "Shining Time Station" after a time when Stacy's grandmother, Gracie Jones, had saved a train from crashing into a horse-drawn carriage that had broken down on the station's tracks. Gracie shined an emergency light from a signal lantern to warn the train, and the train's grateful engineer praised her with "I saw your light shining just in time!" _That_ was how the name "Shining Time Station" was coined in-universe. Another quite baffling inconsistency between the show and the movie is how the character of Billy Twofeathers was portrayed. In the movie, he's an all-knowing sage attuned to nature, magic, and the harmony it all brings to the valley. That is almost the exact _opposite_ of how he was in the show. While he was wise and knowledgeable about life experiences, railway history, and Native American folklore, he was more like a mentor or parental figure to the kids who visited the station. When it came to the subject of magic, however, he wasn't some guru who fully understood magic and its importance to the world. He was more like the straight man who was completely bewildered whenever anything magical or supernatural happened in the show. He helped _ground_ the show in reality, always feeling surprised or confused by Mr. Conductor's magical abilities. In one episode, "Becky Makes a Wish", when some wishing magic accidentally ended up running amok throughout the station, Billy got so stressed out by all the magical chaos that he wished he'd never gotten out of bed that day. It nearly drove him nuts. I won't bother comparing Alec Baldwin's Mr. C to those of Ringo Starr or George Carlin since their two Mr. Conductors were already established in the show as being cousins to each other, so there's no inconsistency there; Baldwin's Mr. C is likely just another family member. What IS inconsistent about him, though, is his gold dust. For starters, the movie consistently refers to it as "Gold Dust" and "Sparkle", two terms that were not used in the show. Rather, the stuff was instead called "Magic Dust". A small thing, but considering that Britt Allcroft made both productions, one would think she'd have kept the terminology consistent. Then again, she also didn't keep any consistency between the show and movie with how the stuff even works. In the film, the Gold Dust is stored inside Mr. C's whistle and Junior's kazoo, and is activated by their blowing into either object. In the show, Ringo and Carlin's Mr. Cs didn't need to blow into their whistles to use their Magic Dust. They could just activate its teleportation ability at will, or even wave their hand to perform other magical abilities (like whenever they would summon a Magic Bubble to play a music video for the kids at the station). Their whistles were only ever blown to start the Thomas stories, which were not magical in nature. The whistle was just used as a tool for scene transitions. Other differences are found in some of the movie's subtleties, the little details that the filmmakers put in to try making the movie feel more connected to the show, but which were done all wrong. For instance, the newspaper seen in the background of the Shining Time scenes in the movie is named "The Shining Times". Cute name, right? Well, not only was the local newspaper in STS actually named "The Indian Valley Gazette" (consistently in several episodes, even), but "The Shining Times" was actually the name of a _fake_ newspaper, from an episode where the kids at the station decided to write their own paper with articles full of lies and exaggerations (it was an episode where they learned about journalistic integrity). Of the two newspaper names this movie could have chosen, it went with the name of the fake one instead of the legitimate one. About the only thing from Shining Time Station that this movie got right was Stacy Jones. The correct actress, the correct look, and the correct portrayal. But, to be fair, Didi Conn had already played the character several years before, so she had the experience to get the part right. Though, even with her and Billy's larger roles in the extended cut, their additional scenes only amounted to the two of them just spouting more exposition, in which they made some ridiculously large leaps in logic to uncover the secrets of the Magic Railroad, reaching conclusions without any real prompts that would have led them to those conclusions in any believable way. Very much like how Adam West Batman used to solve the Riddler's riddles with similarly huge leaps in logic. Yes, that's right, I said "the extended cut". I have watched three different fanmade attempts to recreate the full version of the movie, with every deleted filmed scene from the workprint restored, cleaned up, and rescored to fit the scenes of the final cut. Having seen P.T. Boomer's full role re-inserted into the film, his scenes just kind feel like padding. He really wasn't as vital to the story as the rumors made him out to be. His removal from the film really did streamline things better for the final cut. He's an interesting "what could have been", but his inclusion didn't add much. There were also no additional scenes with the engine characters, all of the workprint's cut scenes were of the human characters, so no George the Steamroller scenes or anything like that. And no additional scenes featuring Thomas. TATMR may have gotten a whole lot wrong about the continuity and lore of Thomas, but the same is unfortunately just as true (if not moreso) for how much it botched the continuity and lore of Shining Time Station. But, all is not lost, for there exists something else Britt Allcroft made that I feel captures the same spirit of what she tried to do with the Lily & Burnett plot of TATMR, but does it so much better... (see below)

[@milestinker2178]

Following the third season of Shining Time Station, rather than making a proper fourth season, four 1-hour-long TV specials were made instead. The second of these specials, aptly named "Second Chances", has a similar plot involving an old man and a kid who bond over the course of the story and help each other to become better by the end. The late great Jack Klugman guest-starred as Max Okowsky, who worked in the signal house of Shining Time Station. He was very old, introverted, and kept to himself, leading some of kids at the station to fear and gossip about him, much like how Burnett lived the life of an isolated hermit in TATMR. Meanwhile, Billy's nephew Kit came into town to visit from the big city, being sent to visit Billy since Kit's been getting into trouble since his dad died. As such, a reputation of delinquency surrounded Kit, leading others to be wary of him. Circumstances eventually bring Kit and Okowsky together, and the two loners begin to bond and become friends. And, the two Thomas stories told in this special by Mr. Conductor ("Grandpuff" and "Sleeping Beauty") were expertly woven in to better illustrate the themes of this special: That someone who's been lost and forgotten by the world can be found again, and where that happened to Duke literally, it happened to both Kit and Okowsky metaphorically and emotionally, just like with Burnett Stone as well. In the same way Burnett felt he had lost his way and Lily helped him to find it again in TATMR, so too do Kit and Okowsky feel lost and help each other to find their way back and be happy again, with Kit even repairing his strained nephew-uncle relationship with Billy in the process. There's even talk of magic being involved, but not the kind of fairy dust magic TATMR relied on, but the magic that comes from within one's heart, from the strength of one's true character. If you haven't seen this special, I highly recommend it, as to me it greatly feels like it illustrates what Britt Allcroft was trying to do with TATMR so much better than TATMR did.

[@Imaranga176]

Woah how long did it take you to type this, respect man I could never

[@milestinker2178]

@@Imaranga176 I'd written something similar before and just expanded on that here. As a lifelong STS fan, it pains me to see so much of it misrepresented in this movie, especially when this movie has become the most widespread representation of STS instead of the show itself, due to the greater accessibility this movie has had over the years while the show just faded off into obscurity, with Mattel showing zero signs of bringing it to home media whether through DVD, Blu-Ray, or streaming of any kind. The only way to watch it in this day and age is through fan uploads online, and only those who actually grew up watching it are the most likely to seek it out, further reducing any chances it has of reaching a broader audience of newer viewers young and old.

[@Imaranga176]

@@milestinker2178 yea real

[@milestinker2178]

@@Imaranga176 So all of that are several reasons why the movie is so disheartening for me. It doesn't just misrepresent Thomas & Friends, it also misrepresents Shining Time Station, to an arguably greater degree than how it misrepresented Thomas. It hurts my heart watching this movie.

[@Mattblox8080]

No

[@Silverlink385]

Uh yes it nostalgia does NOT equal good

[@theholygamer969]

True, but it CAN contribute to enjoyment. Sometimes, people enjoy things that aren't good, and they'll at least have their reasons for it. But when they argue that it's good BECAUSE they themselves enjoy it, that's where the conversation derails into a headache for everyone, because that's not how it works.

[@timberwolf4698]

And what video I the link box?

[@LaBellesGrace]

Apologies for that! They are up now :)

[@timberwolf4698]

I appreciate your intelligence