Is Using Compost and Compost Tea Really Safe?

This Q&A is pulled from a collection of questions posed to me by students of my Online Permaculture Design course (PDC). Learn more with my free four-part Masterclass series, here:
www.discoverpermaculture.com/...
Question:
After researching the safety of compost tea, food cultivation, and food safety, in general, I read a study from the UCONN college of agriculture where they sound the alarm on mulch piles, compost (both plant and manure-based) and compost tea applications noting that pathogens grow rampant in organic mulch piles. I began this research after watching countless videos of folks spraying on compost tea and later picking fruit and eating it straight off the tree without washing. I caught myself thinking "wait, am I going to kill myself doing that?". How can we be sure we are not creating a biological war zone in our mulch and compost piles and that we will not get sick by using such sprays, teas, and mulches?
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About Geoff:
Geoff is a world-renowned permaculture consultant, designer, and teacher. He has established permaculture demonstration sites that function as education centers in all the world’s extreme climates - information on the success of these systems is networked through the Permaculture Research Institute and the www.permaculturenews.org website.
About Permaculture:
Permaculture (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permacu...) integrates land, resources, people and the environment through mutually beneficial synergies - imitating the no waste, closed-loop systems seen in diverse natural systems. Permaculture applies holistic solutions that are applicable in rural and urban contexts and at any scale. It is a multidisciplinary toolbox including agriculture, water harvesting and hydrology, energy, natural building, forestry, waste management, animal systems, aquaculture, appropriate technology, economics, and community development.
#permaculture #compost #composttea

[@TheWeedyGarden]

Really powerful but simple truth at 08.00. Geoff, you are a legend. I am so so grateful that you share your knowledge and the wisdom of nature. You are a brilliant teacher. Gentle soul. Thank you🙏🐨🧑‍🌾👍🏼🌏

[@jamorrisrivers251]

Agreed, ecological citizenship is possible, interdependency is possible. Much to learn from our tiny little friends. Thank you Geoff for sharing these most valuable insights with us.

[@jeffbrislane5782]

This winter ive grown the most robust and healthy peas in Sydney ive ever grown, in a pot, in pure homemade compost and its compost that didnt even reach the industry standard temperature. The growth and health of my plant's was miles above and beyond what i got last year with bunnings vegetable soil mix!

[@nancyfahey7518]

The most sterile place in the world has the most deadliest diseases. Hospitals.

[@crossing3790]

The industries are always going to send FEAR out there when they feel to be at any disadvantage financially and marketshare. They dont like free and natural creation. Blessings to you

[@svetlanikolova7673]

Crossing, who cares what satanic sons like and dont like. let them squirm!!!!

[@nerd4rocks]

Thanks for your service to the planet and its people.sometimes it's good to remind people that chemical plants get rid of toxic chemicals by using biology and so do municipal waste facilities.soil biology will mediate a great deal of the toxic chemicals overtime. Love you for your earthcare efforts.

[@ToonLeighporpeangfarmThailand]

I'd prefer to eat produce from the earth on Geoff's farm rather than from a more serialised production system 😉

[@ginger_wby]

Wow, this was deeper than just compost tea lol

[@DiegoPunchw]

Great work Geoff!! Nature is based on Cooperation and not competition.

[@lionelchan1601]

Salams. Even competition has cooperation in it, just as cooperation has competition in it. A complete nature has the capacity to embrace both.

[@Lauradicus]

Oh goodness, I don’t know whether to say “poor man” or roll on the floor laughing. Great answers.

[@michelleelsom6827]

Whenever I feel stressed by life I always play your clips & videos, even though I have watched them before, they always calm me & make me feel more positive about the future of our Mother earth, thank you for your unwavering commitment in helping to create a healthier planet & for enlightening people so they can make a difference too..

[@erfan4244]

it's like , geoff's videos are like what support species do for trees, it feeds it to grow, well maybe we are long term "fruitful" species as well!

[@joshanderson5145]

So I need to make my teenage son have a compost tea bath as soon as possible 😂😂😂

[@crossing3790]

Is he too short and needs to grow?

[@crpth1]

2x LOL :-)

[@joshanderson5145]

@@crossing3790 The way Geoff reacted when he pretended to smell anarobic bacteria is the same way I react when I pick my son up from sports practice...😧😷

[@jameskniskern2261]

I've been working outside in the summer heat. I sweat, I perspire. And after a while I can smell myself. But it isn't an unpleasant smell. I work with natural earth, compost, and plants. I eat a plant-based diet. And I am rather healthy most of the time. So I can only assume that I have some amazing colonies of beneficial microorganisms on my body. I do shower often, because the salt on the skin chafes after a while. ;)

[@thesicksound]

Basically, yes. But that’s not necessary; he was merely making a point. There is strong evidence that maintaining a natural skin biome of bacteria is beneficial for internal health and it cuts down on body odor. Modern chemical cosmetics, body-sprays, deodorant soaps, etc. kill the good bacteria, so then the smelly bacteria moves in, and that’s why most people in industrialized society smell so bad in between bathing.

[@-pachamannu1150]

So true. I love composting. I like to engage with the soil as much as I can. It is like a connection i can't wait to meet with. I am making aerobic compost tea right now, was a little worried. 😊

[@joecrablone286]

Exercise caution with commercial mulch, potting mix, anaerobic piles and unfinished compost - inhaling spores is the main vector of concern. Aerobic preparations are safe and 99.99% of microbes are harmless - the diversity of which maintains a healthy equilibrium. Compost tea isn't usually sprayed onto fruit, many fruits produce compounds that favour their natural microbiome. Mulch provides a barrier that prevents soilborne pathogens reaching fruit via aerosolized raindrops.

[@arnaldogloria1749]

Greetings Sir! My family just came across your website and we have been praying to learn Permaculture. Thank you so much and we hope that we can be a part of the solution to ecological disaster. At least, do our part and also hoping that as we learn and apply the knowledge that we can also teach our community that there's still hope. God Bless!

[@YarrHarr11]

Thank you for these wonderful words of wisdom. You guys and gals down under have the right view on life and growth! Keep sharing your knowledge!

[@Silverstack3r]

Randomly found this video. First time seeing this channel and it's content. This was awesome and this dude is legit. He's dropping knowledge and truth bombs left and right haha.

[@toffeebluenose7331]

I love this guy Geoff giving sound advise.need to start growing to help with food shortages and worse times. If you got rabbits or Guinea pigs you got cold manure and can use instantly. I used rabbit manure in poor soil and got a good crop of tomatoes.

[@erfan4244]

wow thank you geoff i've watched this several times and its funny that i assumed i didn't had to watch this as good compost is better than safe but , you made this simple answer very interesting and connected it in such a beautiful way to our real life and pointed us in the right direction this definitely have inoculated good ideas in my mind ,it's like , these videos are like what support species do for trees, but for us it feeds us to grow and be healthier, smarter, happier,more resilient, and many more, well maybe we are long term "fruitful" species as well! even if some times we don't realize the time element and want fast results anyway, thanks for being with us! love what you are doing from NW iran near lake urmia

[@itsmemario5663]

Thank you geoff for sharing your wisdom. I learned so much from you. I am so happy to have you as an elder that i can look up to on this path of being in harmony with nature. You are are truly beautiful and powerful teacher, blessings 🙏 thank you for your being and sharing your light on this world🌞🙏❤️

[@LaMollisonPermaculturapampeana]

Geoff, what a wise, intelligent, wonderful answer. Your work is amazing. Thank you, and greetings from south america. Mad respect.

[@jeannewhitaker1950]

I get little cuts on my hands gardening all the time from briars, aggressive cucumbers, not wearing gloves....🙄 I also stick my bucket directly into the compost tea and those little cuts on my hands heal within 24 hours. Somebody should study that!

[@richo083]

Well said! You have Great way of communicating Geoff.

[@Mandy-cn5cl]

Well put as always thanks for all your hard work

[@urutuc]

As always - spot on !

[@the1stDJLowkey]

Such important information. So much alarmist info on compost teas and it's so nice to hear it put forth logically and truthful. Compost is amazing when used correctly

[@source2950]

Oh Geoff God bless your patience

[@ryanwc67]

The average person has 3 lb of bacteria in their stomach and body to break down food as it digests we don't draw the minerals and vitamins directly from the food a lot of the times we draw them from the bacteria exudates. We work in symbiosis with bacteria, and when we don't we get inflammatory diseases and allergies do to hyper clean food.

[@MrMadalien]

The only thing separating us from an absolutely massive species wide epidemic of auto immunity and allergies, is our gut bacteria. If we adopt the sterile vision of reality, which is simply a misconception, this would be the end of humanity. Thankfully, as scientists know, it is actually impossible to sterilize. When you sterilize a surface it is immediately repopulated with adjacent life forms. Preventing the spread of microbes is much like trying to hold water in a strainer.

[@juliafernandes6939]

Amazing! Very enlightening, thanks!

[@bte_permaculture]

If you need someone to turn that compost pile, I would do it for just getting that feeling of doing it!! It is beautiful 😍💓♻️🙏♥️ Love from Kerala, India! Thank you Sensei 😊

[@jimgreenwood5360]

There is an anaerobic digester standing next to the mature aerobic compost pile. In compost many of the organisms are facultative anaerobes that switch from anaerobic to aerobic. The aerobic pile will have a lot of anaerobic activity in its depths. There is no way that the pile stays aerobic deep inside. The soil is also anaerobic below the the surface layer. What I am seeing is a lot more anaerobic activity compared to aerobic activity. I do think that the word anaerobic is not "evil".

[@SanKissJuice]

1:30 into the video and I already love his answers!

[@lionelchan1601]

Salams. Nature as "holy war" that when done in alignment with Principle, leads to serenity and health? Sounds right!

[@lionelchan1601]

@milkman Disease and death is part of health and wholeness too. How can anything in the world be away from Principle? If it is, the "principle" that you hold is the first thing to question.

[@lionelchan1601]

@milkman That's a modern western definition. The East has very different approaches traditionally (理 and Tawhid), as does the West traditionally. Given that first move however, I completely agree with you.

[@source2950]

Oh Geoff God bless your patience. Follow natural respect nature and we can not go wrong

[@grguygr]

thats one good looking compost pile you are standing next to Geoff... good looking biological war zone

[@SanKissJuice]

Yes I find myself being envious of that pile of compost haha!

[@ripme6616]

I feel like these days, we have to make the Distinction between natural/ inherent biological warfare ' and laboratory/abhorrent biological Warfare.. if you scratch my sniff

[@MarlonVanderLinde]

Awesome and witty putting down the facts by Geoff. Thanks sir, appreciated. One of my favourite topics is composting. Don't see you making some fun/jokes a lot, i enjoyed that :D

[@49testsamiam49]

your right Thomas .... we need to grow up

[@marcuschan9009]

Well explain Geoff. Re learn again how to perceive the word too "sterlise". Thank you once again.

[@kristindye8296]

When are you coming to Florida?!!!

[@Phelan666]

You need an immune system to survive.

[@BESHYSBEES]

Yeah nah you can but as soon as you contact any little virus 🦠 you’re fucked, I lived without one for a while it’s taken years but it’s slowly building up

[@RoyHolder]

Kids that play in the dirt have the best immune systems. I've been healthy all my life, no allergies and rarely get a cold. If you cover your life with antiseptic you'll pay the price with a very weak immune system!

[@thewhittierhousewife3898]

Concerning the subject of microbes I will quote a block buster franchise: "I will not risk open war." King Theoden "Open war is upon you, whether you would risk it or not." Aragorn.😉

[@mikewright3029]

what about parasites from manure?...i would like to ask for some horse manure from a local horseback riding ranch, but I'm concerned. will the compost pile heat take care of it like it does the smaller things?....

[@elenanoumilelini3930]

thank you

[@ournewbulgarianlife4097]

I am wondering: I was looking into EM (effective microorganisms) composts before. I understand the EM approach is mainly nurturing anaerobic microorganisms. Should one do anaerobic and aerobic compost as separate concepts? Which one is better than for which application?

[@Goodtimes523]

Hi there can you show us the borders of your property and have you been working with your neighbours to expand your plans, your earthworks thank you

[@spoolsandbobbins]

Wonderful!

[@richlee808]

Beautiful sentiment about being too sterile and not having an immunity to nature. Solution? TOUCH MORE COMPOST PILES

[@sharonhoffer3599]

So I’ve seen other videos of yours where you use the liquid straight from your worm farm, but is this correct? As I note that in this video, you constantly use the term aerated compost tea, and I’d assume you’d also apply that to worm tea? Should this liquid be aerated first before using? Or just used fresh? Rather than letting it sit for a day or more? Or do we just use our noses, and if the tea or compost smells great, it’s good to go? TIA 🙏🏽😊🌱

[@ramthian]

Very nice 👍

[@josephpotter2844]

Knowledge is power and very light weight, Power to the People the soil and fungi ,

[@solfeinberg437]

I'd prefer to drink some of Geoff's compost tea than eat "conventionally" produced anything!

[@yLeprechaun]

Truth!

[@solfeinberg437]

@@yLeprechaun I watch parents carefully give their kids another, say, reeses peanut butter cup after the first one hit the floor - and I'm like "I don't care if it's sterile, don't feed that to kids". Then some people who visit get in the garden and you hand them something and rather than pop it in their mouth which I expect they hold it awkwardly in their hand - and I'm talking even ripe nice looking strawberries - maybe they mumble I'll wash it and eat it later. Joel Fuhrman says he'd rather wash his carrots in the toilet than eat some of the conventional crap - at least my memory says he said that sometime.

[@MrMadalien]

@@solfeinberg437 the only reason to wash food is to wash off the toxic chemicals leftover from the method. I still wash everything from the garden out of habit but I know that it is largely unnecessary. If you pick your nose at all, then you are already exposing yourself directly to billions of microbes, both beneficial and harmful. Terrain determines the outcome. Being exposed to bad microbes does not kill you. Your immune system failing or being in an ideal state for invasion, is the true reason for a deadly infection.

[@PartTimePermies]

The take home is the balance. In systems that have more beneficial microbes than pathogenic, you are fine. It's not just about aerobic vs anaerobic and not just about smell. Botulism and listeria are anaerobic and have no smell or taste. E coli is anaerobic and smells like sh... poo. Salmonella can actually survive in either aerobic or anaerobic environments and does not affect taste or smell. So you can't go by smell, taste or aerobic vs anaerobic completely. The advantage to having a highly aerobic composting system is that you will outcompete the pathogenic bacteria with the beneficial by creating an environment in which the beneficial bacteria thrive better and outcompete the pathogenic strains. The same concept applies to fermenting food and drinks. The other option is to hot compost to a temperature that kills the pathogenic bacteria (and for that matter, kill potential weed seeds).

[@marlan5470]

Watch Dr. Elaine Ingham's videos. She's a soil microbiologist.

[@crpth1]

About washing fruit before consuming it! I always wash it. And I ALWAYS press my wife to wash the fruit before she eat it! Which most of the times she never does, I might had! ;-) Case in point being not the fear of any natural composts used. But instead some (healthy) fear of the toxic "crap" that was left in there... LOL 😂

[@ebolainfluenza]

Don't know if this is *the* article to which James was referring, but: www.soiltest.uconn.edu/factsheets/CompostTea.pdf

[@ebolainfluenza]

or perhaps it was this one: www.cag.uconn.edu/plsc/soiltest/documents/foodsafetycompostfactsheet6-14.pdf

[@loue6563]

We forget we are a part of nurture. We have more cells of other organisms in our bodies than we do our own cells. Some of those are harmful but many, even most are beneficial and necessary for us to live. We need a balance of them. Take yeast we all have scone in our intestines and they may even be beneficial in small amounts but when they multiply out of control. Like when we eat to much sugar or take antibiotics yeast can be very harmful. And we also need exposure to those sometimes harmful organisms so we can build up immunity to them. It has been shown in may studies that children raised on farms have a better immune system because they are exposed early in life to not only potential harmful organisms but to the ones that help fight them. Most people now especially in industrial countries have weaker immune systems and unhealthy gut systems. We have killed off the bacteria we need to survive. Yea there are times when antibiotics and other medications are necessary. But we need to make sure we then help to build back a healthy gut system.

[@numobudo]

FYI: UCONN is the University of Connecticut. It is pronounced the same as YUKON, hence the nickname "Huskies".

[@MasChampes]

In aquaponic bacteria nitrobacter converts ammonia into nitrate Guys, can I use Nitrobacter to convert Ammoniak urine rabbit into nitrate

[@Nizamaniahe]

I have 12 acre flat Agricultural fields in Pakistan and I wanted to convert from conventional agriculture to Permaculture. how can i converts flat land into permacultre, how should I prepare my land and how should I design. please help me sir Geof Lawton

[@bonniepoole1095]

Here's an article University of Connecticut published about compost tea. It is favorable to aerated aerobic tea. www.soiltest.uconn.edu/factsheets/composttea.pdf

[@TheLeahsKitchen]

that letter gave me a chuckle -- UNCON?

[@lionelchan1601]

Salams. Even as we counter them, it's good to listen to these concerns without (too much) mockery and/or suspicion though. I wager most people think in this line now, it helps only our egos to put them off side right off the blocks.

[@bronweneckstein1863]

Thank you lionel. Making people wrong does not help anyone. Why make enemies? Listening to them and giving them a chance to share their fears can change the atmosphere and maybe allow some clarity of thought. It's not about pushing one viewpoint. Its about sharing one's own valid experiences and allowing others to vent. We are all entitled to our own point of view. Feeling heard can open a person to listening to other points of view. Firm kindness, protecting each one's right to say what they think... take what you like and leave the rest. We dont need to shout others down so long as they dont harm us.

[@marcogallazzi9049]

A bit late but i´ve seen videos claiming free range chicken eggs are harmfull! Some common sense is always a good thing

[@joshdoyle182]

He could have said: "Germs are tiny animals. They live in a specific niche. Disease-germs live in your bodies' niches at first, and spread from there. Eat food from something that looks different. Compost-piles are warm and moist. Like your surface body-parts. So don't eat that directly. Eat food from a place which is either cool or dry." Mic drop. EDIT: But there is a lot more value in this more prolonged response.

[@justgivemethetruth]

8:41 - Doggie alert .... Need more dog!

[@ripme6616]

Wow 'this has aged well ,with the current paradigm shift.. biblical indeed

[@planete6922]

Read the book - the humanure handbook by joseph jenkins 💩 Thanks for your videos geoff

[@zachmiller9175]

Pathogen is a bit of a slur against these helpful microbes. I've never been picky about food or cleanliness and now I have a goat stomach that doesn't really care what I put in it.

[@CorwynGC]

Go ahead and wash your food.

[@bradhorner]

I would take my chances with Geoff. The proof is in the pudding.

[@davidhauser2665]

University of Connecticut probably Takes funding from agribusinesses

[@suzclarke]

Hahaha, was that hard to take seriously Geoff?

[@stephanealegoria7016]

Sometime you wonder what people have in their head. Plastic juice maybe..

[@MistressOP]

they do grow. the thing is there's a biological warzone of good and bad. It's mostly good tho. I hit pause but I imagine Geoff is going to tell this guy that.

[@tjaartsilvis]

Google UCONN compost tea. First search result gives a positive view of composting. www.soiltest.uconn.edu/factsheets/composttea.pdf James's comments should have been verified first.

[@crpth1]

We should try to avoid taking things out of context! After all the statement has some veracity behind it. Make a "bad" compost or compost tea. And you can easily mess up/kill all your plants! I guess the real take form all this is. To do things PROPERLY. When done correctly it's simply amazing! No discussion needed! ;-) I'm saying this after adding a bit more to one of my compost piles! Talk about timing. BTW One of the best things I ever did. Pretty much no organic garbage get's out of here. And in the end my plants love it! ;-) Cheers

[@jasonkennedy1670]

the source of funding for this study is indeed questionable 🤔

[@caprumra782]

Big farma are worried about their market shares. Not our problem.

[@dungeonmaster6292]

I am sympathetic with the overall efforts here, of course, however he is perpetuating some bad info regarding germ theory and microbial behaviors. Carry on.

[@libraryofpangea7018]

Contaminated Romain lettuce & high microbial compost never caused a global lock down & pandemic. That's all im sayin.

[@GerryMantha]

Contaminated romaine lettuce can only kill the people who eat it, luckily!

[@justgivemethetruth]

0:35 - I expect they're funded by someone who is not organic. I'd bet on it.

[@ripme6616]

My farts smell like beneficial microorganisms ,as does the sun exsultate my derrierexit.. biome means....🐒..

[@dukereg]

You lose credibility when you jump straight to conspiracy theories when people report things you don't agree with.

[@peterburris4665]

dukereg I haven't read the report from UCONN, however I have studied this subject fairly intense. And the author of this video has consulted with Elaine Ingham one of the leading soil scientist of the US and maybe in the world. The author and his students have received good instruction from Dr. Ingham on checking the compost with a microscope. This is essential to know how good the compost is confirming the good organisms are in it and not the pathogens. this science is confirmed and accurate. So from the authors experience and science based intellect it's hard for him to believe the 2nd hand report. I'm not so sure he's lost credibility.

[@dukereg]

@@peterburris4665 I'm glad to hear there's a good basis for his understanding of soil health. If he had led with that, he would have gained credibility. Instead he immediately, and without giving one bit of evidence, accused the study authors of corruption. That is where he loses credibility.

[@peterburris4665]

dukereg your right he does speculate corruption immediately. Corrupt studies do happen though. Quite often too. I urge you to check out Dr. Pamela Poppers page. Her main job is teaching people how to read studies. She features in several of her videos that she has to weed out weak science and poorly conducted studies. many studies and trials are performed at an aimed target. money can be an influence on how studies are conducted. Everyone wants to do a good job for their Boss. I'd be interested in this case to see if a hot aerobic composting method was used. many people think a heap of table scraps and manure is compost. however it can take a year or more to become safe.

[@jdearr1]

@@dukereg There are so many videos that it might be they fear being super repetitive, and it's really important that you shared your perception. Earlier 20th century agricultural activists argued that expecting to convince others to abandon years or generations of farm practices for "peasant knowledge" was utterly unrealistic, and also that the proof one might desire to demonstrate to others is only experiential. That said, it may also be that the folks Down Under know little of the University of Connecticut's ag programs are reputable. I'm in New England, so "UCONN" has context for me, like UMaine or Stockbridge. At any rate, I love these compost videos! I watched this one (kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4XOkKCbodKpZ5Y) from these folks many times while starting my own hot compost experiments this summer

[@YarrHarr11]

@dukereg How is pointing out that ag colleges in the US are funded by the chemical fertilizer industry, a conspiracy theory? It's more like a statement of truth.

[@-.Whiteness-.Witch-.]

Great video 👍

[@ournewbulgarianlife4097]

I am wondering: I was looking into EM (effective microorganisms) composts before. I understand the EM approach is mainly nurturing anaerobic microorganisms. Should one do anaerobic and aerobic compost as separate concepts? Which one is better than for which application?