Is Vanguard Experiencing Artificially Inflated Costs? // Discussion // Cardfight Vanguard Overdress

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Is Vanguard experiencing routine price spikes? What causes some of these inflated costs, and why are other TCGs more affordable? Let’s discuss in todays video!
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[@noirhelios]

Been a Vanguard veteran since around 2014, and gonna say right now the issue with the price is the now absolutely horrendous pull rate from boxes, less sellers being available, and the card quality itself (not the material, but the mechanics). Been buying boxes for a while, and the biggest change so far has been R cards being absolute garbage in Standard. G and V had good staples for specific decks at R or even C rarity, but now almost every half-decent card to make a deck even FUNCTION, not just good, is always RR or higher. Back in V, you were guranteed a VR (higher rarity than RRR) so you could at least argue you only need a staple 4-of for the VR to be kinda pricey and makes the bulk of the price for the deck. Now you’re fighting for RRRs against four other nations if you only play one nation, and if you don’t play the deck in said nation, too friggin bad. I have about 10 Standard decks of varying nations and I have gone through four boxes already that got me zero RRR I can use, cause I can’t afford to buy cases all the time. I don’t even get staples from these sets for the decks I do play or want to play because the pull rates are so garbage and they keep making all the staples RR or higher while R and lower is just literal pack filler

[@singlen3561]

No it’s because they introduced all these high rarities that lowers the value of the rrr make it so you either pull them or bust because vrs can be worth $3-$30. But since they expanded the pool it’s been harder to get playsets. You went from 8 rrr/case to 6.5 rrr/case. It’s impossible to clan split anymore so no ones is covering 160 for a case just to not pull the 200 dollar chase card not in their nation. Less buyer combined with horrendous distribution = a drop in both supply and demand. Not usually a problem but if it’s not a priority for distributors. They can simply order under the demand amount and treat vanguard as a passive income instrument rather than a business because other product are easier to move for the same effort. Again not a problem because supply matches demand but once set 4 comes around and a lot of vets come back for regionals. That’s when demand shoots way up causing inflation

[@windwaker0rules]

I never cared that stuff like youthberk and swirler costed $30+, but why do I need $40+ for masque orders and effect trigger playset for Lianorn? Also you know what undermines boxes? Promo staples that are better than the box cards?

[@AlexCFV]

Thank you for sharing this - this is exactly what I mean. Lower tier decks that have no meta relevancy (at the moment, I love me some Lianorn 😭) are inflated in cost due to dependency on universal cards - a system that VG has traditionally been exempt from pre Overdress era. Bad ratios and predatory promo practices in combination with the nation system have driven deck costs up quite substantially. We are now seeing the same with Premium as well (I.E. harmonics messiah, honoly, and Elementaria Sanctitude)

[@windwaker0rules]

@@AlexCFV I love that harmonics is effectively a second quick shield, the og quick shields are in trial decks, the new one costs $30+

[@DrawPG]

Hahaha I agree with you actually like as a broke college student who can't afford Broken Toys PR its really difficult to earn up for one when it could've been a box topper on the time of release. Man bushi gotta flood the market

[@jonathangoodwin7511]

It was advertised that D Format would be the solution to this problem. And at first, it was. But then people started complaining about the lack of generic staples. When we finally got some, the prices on those cards were horrendous. And it only got worse from there. Terrible ratios, constant promos, and greedy sellers/ card shops have brought the game to where it is now. And honestly, I feel like it’s going to get even worse

[@AlexCFV]

Missing set 1-3 ratios big time :(

[@jonathangoodwin7511]

@@AlexCFV Me too

[@nmr7203]

And then people wonder why companies don't listen to them

[@EpicMTGMusic]

The issue is that those staples were not implemented the right way. Look at Blue and Green Staples in MTG : 4 consider( common) , 4 uncommon counter spells, 8 common mana elves... Generic cards doesn't need to be on the rariest spot. In fact, they should be the most bulk in the set.

[@MrSamboy234]

The CFV prices are overinflated as bushiroad hasn't been price oriented competitively compare to the other TCGs

[@Lustecom]

Get a better job noob

[@truegamerking]

Honestly the issue is mostly on finding a happy medium on case ratios. Adding a few more packs to a box, making sure that there are always at least 2 playsets per case. There were about 6 of each card in a festival case, 2 of each reptint. In the history collection there are 2 of each card per case. Just add a few more cards per pack to get everything to at least a playset. Needing to buy 2 CASES for a playset is absurd. I really hope bushi improves on this. Prices are inflated, sure in part by the sellers, but mostly bushi not having very good ratios.

[@blanahaha]

The set ratios just keep getting worse and worse with every other set it feels like. I really miss 2 playsets NOT including SP/FFR per case. Also reprints should be printed in lower rarities and not this 2 per case bullshit reprint rare.

[@truegamerking]

@blanahaha honestly 1 playset per case for reprints would be an acceptable amount I feel But not half They really do just keep making it worse and I don't know what they are gaining other than making the fan base upset

[@AlexCFV]

Ratios were great for players at 2 playsets per case (set 1-3 I believe of D series), but stores/ vendors were complaining that products were just sitting on shelves because of that. The introduction of more generic nation cards has increased demand to the point where I think it could now be sustainable. I think there are definitely better ratios that Bushiroad need to explore and discover over the next year or so.

[@Justice272]

Honestly this video is so spot on. I play digimon and one piece but my son wants to play vanguard. I want to play with him and buy the decks he wants to play but it’s just too expensive and I just don’t understand why…I’m sure the game is loosing a lot of players because of this.

[@AlexCFV]

Glad you and your son can connect over TCGs! While it might not be in the best spot right now, there traditionally have been decks that could compete without breaking the bank in VG. Hopefully we get back to that point soon!

[@caxtonpetri753]

One of the things I think that plays a big factor along with the ratios is the playability of bulk. As someone who digimon and vanguard its really shocking how much they are on opposite ends of the spectrum. For example my red hybrids deck which was a solid T1 contender last set contains 4 SRs, 12Rs, and everything is uncommon or common. Compare that to my Heroes deck which has basically never been meta relevant and the deck is almost exclusively RR and RRR outside of your staple triggers. While the Heroes deck is dirt cheap the fact that its all high rarity means that if there is any kind of demand for it the case ratios are so bad it will instantly force the deck to be super expensive. Compare that with digimon where its pretty normal for decks to look not that far off from Red Hybrids rarity wise and it makes most decks fairly affordable due to only having to worry about a few cards getting high priced as a large portion of your deck will be bulk and stay cheap regardless of the demand. I think it would help vanguard immensely if they are going to keep plowing forward with these bad case ratios if they built more decks like Ghandeeva where the deck has staple usage of Rs and Cs from the set instead of making everything high rarity. Also printing more staples like Mushrooms from Stoicheia where its a semi universal staple at R instead of RR or RRR would help keep prices lower. Also they need to just keep reprinting the effect triggers every two or three sets, if they want to have these cards that literally just say "I'm you but better" they can't make them hard to get as that just builds an even higher barrier to entry. Like you were saying its hard to get new players into the game when they go "okay how do I build a deck?" and the first thing you would say is "Okay first pick a nation and buy $70 worth of mandatory staples that have no deck identity". Its really off putting like telling a newbie in MTG "Okay go buy $70 in lands and these are mandatory, you could buy the cheap ones but they are literally just the good ones with less text". I actually had this issue because initially BT7 reprint did nothing and I was wanting to switch from Dark States to Keter but held off because a playset of Keter PGs, OT, and a playest of the effect triggers and some vanilla triggers was like $70~$80. That's just really unacceptable and bushi really needs to make sure shit doesn't get that bad again.

[@windwaker0rules]

i would argue that the effect triggers need to be in every set at this point, or put into TDs or constructed decks. The only other alternative is to allow 12 crit to be legal again, i would rather get blown out by gravidia and Orfist then pay $50 for rare triggers.

[@AlexCFV]

I’ve honestly been saying the trigger/ PG paywall has been an issue for a while. It’s just not fun or enticing to drop that amount on what are essentially mandatory vanillas in todays game. Great example of the low rarity usage in Digimon as well, I hadn’t even thought of that. Tons of decks are comprised of easily accessible cards for sure!

[@brownboy534]

I feel like the biggest solution to this is to just make the higher rarity cards more common with terrible art so that if you want to pay premium for a borderless holo/4k designed card, you can but otherwise the card is a couple bucks. still a staple and still costs a decent amount for a pay set but 15$ for a play set of a staple rather than 100$ is by far the better way and Bushi can accomplish this by just making the cards appear more often.

[@mrmeow2297]

I like CFV but damn is it expensive

[@JustRockIt141]

I play in the JP environment and the price for putting up a competitive deck is just ridiculous atm. Let say you want to play the new Bastion deck competitively , Sajess （The Keter RRR in SS05) is like 50 USD each in JP. The Owl Promo for Bastion is also like 30 usd each in JP. with those 8 cards it's already over 300 usd. (And bushiroad is just printing stupid op must included promos for every archetype and you would feel shitty if you don't have those without spending like 100+ usd for a playset).

[@streetgamer3452]

I think one of the biggest things that is hurting Vanguard is just it’s legacy. It has restarted twice, isn’t as old as Yugioh or magic nor based off a big IP like One piece and digimon , and just doesn’t have the advertising ability as other current big card games do. I especially want to show off the restarting. That made a lot of people drop off the game and sellers not want to buy it so when they do eventually come back they price them higher because they want their money back MUCH FASTER than they used to because they are scared of the possibility of something making their investments turn terribly. This also makes it harder to get new people in cuz like why would I make a VG deck over a Yugioh deck if I’m going to spend almost $500? Also Bash me if you want but while Konami are terrible they know how to handle reprints. They probably have the best reprint policy I can think of for a card game and i really wish other games especially vanguard need to adopt it. Like one thing I’ve noticed with vanguard that it struggles with is how after the first set that a card comes out it basically never gets reprinted and reaches astronomical prices that makes it impossible to buy.

[@AlexCFV]

Konami have really turned it around with reprints in the past few years. Aside from rarity downgrades making essential cards drastically more affordable, the mega tin product is a great alternate rarity product that players can bank on year after year. Thanks for checking out the video!

[@Faraday.K]

I think the big inflection point for the highly stratified prices for RRR's was in set 4, when sets went from having 10 different RRR's to pull to 15. Low demand RRR's can still be cheap, but the constraint in supply that came from having 6-7 of each RRR per case to 5-6 stressed things for higher demand cards. This game also has a really wonky player perception of the meta, tbh. I remember a friend of mine coming to me before festival collection came out to say that Willista drew you 9 cards per turn while attacking five times for huge numbers and it was unbeatable, but in JP tournament results it hasn't even broken through Gandeeva, let alone Minerva. Frankly, JP is its own can of worms, because as far as I can tell, they seem to latch onto decks so fiercely that they give the impression that the meta is stratified to the point of 90-10 win rate between top tier and tier 2. Really, this game just isn't like that. You can play most things and do fine in most metas, but I believe that the perception of extreme stratification between tiers drives unnatural demand for upper end cards, as well as for speculation-driven demand as in the case of Sajess and Spiral Cutie. Heck, even Digimon has a worse stratification problem than Vanguard -- if you play Bloomlord into Hunters, you could probably scoop in at least 70% of games and see no change in your win rate. That game has quite a few flat-out unwinnable matchups. The promo situation in Vanguard is truly atrocious, though. Monthly tournament promos aren't great; they do get quite expensive and I'm anticipating having to spend an arm and a leg for the Minerva one, but the prices do gradually whittle down over the weeks of promo packs getting handed out. Nonstandard promo releases, however, are an utter catastrophe. I've never seen a worse combination of player capability to take part in these campaigns to get their copies, mixed with a worse system of reprints. Broken Toys might be the biggest promo disaster I've ever seen in a TCG.I bought a full case of that set, and the shop sent me zero promos. Broken Toys has oscillated from 40 to 60 per copy as a mandatory 4 of in a deck nobody plays. The reprint? Come to regionals. There are like four regional events in your country. You get one promo pack. You have a 1/8 chance to pull it.

[@vanguardjossu5317]

The D format used to be cheap especially during the first few sets. It slowly became a bit more and more expensive like one card is around 20 USD per copy. I love the game but I agree when a lot of people are saying that the game is really expensive compared to other TCG's.

[@jeshuaavila1620]

I think the inflation issue is not enough sellers so they can adjust prices how ever they want. Which does create am accessibility issue for the game. Then there is a lack of places that sells vanguard cards. So harder for the game to grow. Also with low supply of cards make it easy for buy out and over pricing. Though this topic is very complex and can spread to a web of issues. Me trying to find a vanguard local near me I could find one in all the State of Ohio. So if a new person is impossible to get into a game if no locals and if price for carss are too high. Then question is how does bushi fix this. Cause if bushi wants vanguard to be successful the game needs to be accessible. They need more players not less would be nice a video on how accessible vanguard is vs other card games

[@AlexCFV]

I know Cincinnati has a pretty decent scene from what I've heard, not sure how far you are from there. I definitely understand finding a locals can be a struggle, but over time if you are active in other TCG communities, sometimes a $5 trial deck is all it takes to get someone into the game!

[@gokugtsupersaiyan]

i agree with you on needing to swap things out for other decks i too like my character sleeves. I'm glad i downsized my standard decks to just pbo and overlord and maybe thegrea because i can't imagine having even one deck in each nation and trying to keep up lol. I like to call it the yugioh problem where even decks that aren't relevant cost a lot due to needing generic stuff to function or it's support is in a high rarity slot when it really shouldn't be

[@AlexCFV]

I have more decks than I would like to admit haha, I really need to do a collection video one of these days

[@bryce7289]

honestly it's impossible tobuild some older decks because stuff like OG The End and Chronovisor Heritage are absurdly expensive compared to the Japan market

[@Strider0167]

From my experience with vanguard is the extra two slots of cards being triple rare or double rare. Originally you could buy a deck for about 100$ less than today. you get at most a playset per case and considering that I open 12-20 cases per set, I can only supply a limited amount to players including my pre orders. Also consider that you could pull an SP per box back then which is an extra copy of a card in set. Reprints are fine but you only get a playset per case. Ratios plus LGS not being able to supply the 5-6 players with one nation deck staples doesn't keep the game cheap. The best way to return to original low value they should bring back SP rarity which makes it fun to obtain keeps high rarity at a fair cost and stop adding so many RRR to nations. At most 5-6 RRR per set will give you about 8-10 copies per RRR.

[@joltionunivers]

I actually moved from Digimon to Vangaurd in the last month and half and ive noticed they both have the same issue: Its always 1 or 2 cards that are way more expensive than the rest and when a key card is a Promo its even worse. If they would just add 4 more packs to each box amd gurentee certain things per box, Vanguard would be in a much better state money wise for mew players. Ive built 2 decks on my own, those being Avantgarda and Gandeeva while I bought Drajewled from my friend for 160 and thats without Swirler. I also want to build PBO but cost wise its around 220-260

[@AlexCFV]

Welcome to the VG community friend 😎💪🏻. On the top end, there are expensive cards for Digimon for sure but overall I would say the game is more affordable by a long shot. You have the option to build multiple decks that are competitive for under the $60 price range, where as in vanguard that really isn’t an option at this point :/

[@tomerator]

We’re currently in a tier 0 gandeeva format so I would agree with you that vanguard prices are artificially inflated.

[@mrbubbles6468]

Always has been. Due to lack of printing product. Bushiroad has never printed enough product. And then nowhere sells it, because people don’t buy it, because there is not product to buy. This has been an issue since the game cme out a decade ago

[@AlexCFV]

I feel like it has just been intensified with the new case ratios, bad promos, and nation system. Always has been an element of struggle though for sure

[@shirayukinobunaga9424]

I agree about the inflated costs which lets me turn to Dear Days dlc cause honestly i'd rather play Messiah or Chronojet IRL cause the decks are solid and you get all you need right in the set and spend like 70 dollars for the dlc just so i can play Every other deck and build how i want

[@birninzananetwork]

I think its because there is not alot of players or collectors for are game

[@BlackKyurem5]

Doesn't help Bushiroad has given up supporting the only format that can be considered cheap to get into (V) meaning your only options are the 2 expensive formats unless your locals has enough V legacy players

[@redfallangeles-reyes9722]

Tbf. V is only cheap because it only gets 2 sets of support a year and the impending doom of it dying which is now happening. V was still expensive when it was the standard. But not D levels of expensive

[@AlexCFV]

Perhaps there is a solution to support the format on the horizon. Lets hope at least!

[@BlackKyurem5]

@@redfallangeles-reyes9722 That though the Clan Collection reprints also helped out a lot. I remember back when LJ Draw PGs were a horrific nightmare to acquire but thankfully now it's a drop in a bucket

[@jaynnwillver5675]

even the common trigger is like half a buck. triggers back then is just a throwaway card and cost nothing .

[@rarreyna3971]

Lol I didnt know Emmeline was that expensive. I gave my Coworker's brother my copy because he's always bringing us food (we work late hours).

[@AlexCFV]

A true value exchange 🫡

[@DragonAlchemist0]

One piece seconday was bad at launch i saw. Card inflation was repugnat for a game just starting and people inflating any secondary price on a new tcg is just playing get in get out since they dont know if the game will last more than 6 months.

[@ElFelocitaptor]

I can't rejoin this game because of the price. I played from the start till Overdress set 5. From that point on singles were awful. I have nobody to split boxes with and nation splits are inflated because of this reason too.

[@AlexCFV]

Always makes me sad to hear something like this, but I completely understand. Hopefully within the next year, things get a bit more affordable!

[@battlegatetcg]

Ok so your blaming bushi but it’s not there fault it the secondary markets fault sellers are over pricing so they can make more then what they should be a case cost just as much as other games and it’s the sellers that are messing it up flesh and blood cost way more to play the CFV

[@AlexCFV]

Legitimately lost brain cells trying to decipher this comment

[@DragonAlchemist0]

So this is based on the secondary market which is what it looks liek to me. Secondary market is not any company's problem. That would be the community. Yes i agree the inflation is bad. But if it was the price for the booster sets going from lets say. 50. To 100 a set then i would understand.

[@windwaker0rules]

the effective value of a booster box has gone down, you need 2 cases to get a playset of staples and these staples are needed by twice as many decks compared to V. Take the money out and all thats happened is the boxes got worse.

[@AlexCFV]

Decline in ratios and general product availability while at the same time raising the price of the product deff seems like a company decision and issue, not solely on the secondary market

[@fencingfireferret1188]

21+ dollars per copy for a g3 unit to support a 20cent boss vanguard, 9+ dollar brainwash swirlers.... 10-20+ generic ride fodder units.... it's all too much. I don't even want to play meta, but the game expects me to fork over 280 dollars just to play a decent Purgatory Dragon Diety, Favrneel deck. For the sake of comparison, the ENTIRE playset of cards for a topping max power meta defining deck in pokemon right now is 70-80 dollars. There's no way Vanguard should cost as much as it does.

[@DragonAlchemist0]

as much as i want more new people to get into the game. I say dont look to the secondary market as the way to get your deck anymore. Focus on one deck. Buy sets. Trade cards you don't need for the cards you need for that deck. And make REASONABLE TRADES. you may not always get the exact value for what your trading away. But you need to build up what your trading to get. And if a person too excessive. Just move on to trade with someone else and do not grumble over the person taht is too persnickety with trades.

[@windwaker0rules]

problem is we all want the swirlers and yuikas.

[@AlexCFV]

I agree that the “trading card” aspect should be encouraged more, but it’s still just difficult to get the supply in general. I enjoy playing and owning multiple decks, so it can be tough - but yea for a new player for sure concentrate on building one up and grow with the deck!

[@YGOHermit]

i love vanguard, but they killed the game in my country with their useless reboots

[@thatpenguindragon]

Trying to justify bushi's poor practices *coughs* wcc *coughs* just shows how much copium whales inhale

[@BlackKyurem5]

Bushiroad is pretty much relying in whales for Vanguard at this point and has given up attracting new or budget players. Those new reprint decksets are much more expensive than any trial deck and they're going to be limited supply

[@Sebastian36962]

What's with the WCC ? I rarely watch it

[@AlexCFV]

I just want to mention that this video was in no way a dig at them at all. I completely forgot Kai made a video about prices last week tbh. But on the topic of whales, yes - the willingness to blindly buy product at any given price is just bad for the general player base. In this game, "Whaling" traditionally hasn't increased the availability of product like one might expect