Multi-Species Empires

Interstellar civilizations home to hundreds of peacefully cooperating alien species are a common theme in science fiction, but are such civilizations likely or would we instead see conquest and xenocide?
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Credits:
Alien Civilizations: Multi-Species Empires
Science & Futurism with Isaac Arthur
Episode 337a, April 10 2022
Written, Produced & Narrated by Isaac Arthur
Editors:
David McFarlane
Cover Art:
Jakub Grygier www.artstation.com/jakub_grygier
Music by:
Martin Rezny, "Lifelight"
Denny Schneidemesser, "Bridge Ambience"
Stellardrone, "A Moment of Stillness"
Aerium, "Fifth Star of Aldebaran"
Miguel Johnson, "Strange New World"

[@ramuk1933]

More on the hive mind thing: ants may be very cooperative within nests, but they wage brutal wars between colonies, with one particular species having mastered suicide bombing long before humans ever tried that.

[@cedriceric9730]

Nothing new under the sun ☀️

[@TransformersNibbasInDisguise54]

That type of behavior is called positive and negative ethnocentrism in humans

[@vlads3283]

There are also multi species colonies(mostly eggs taken from other colonies and not colonies of ants with different species of ants)

[@christopherbaby3842]

Argentine Super Colonies have entered the chat.

[@YouTubecanfuckagoat]

@@christopherbaby3842 That made me laugh way too hard.

[@privatepessleneck]

"On the blood of our fathers, on the blood of our sons, we swore to uphold the Covenant!" "Even to our dying breath!"

[@WolfeSaber9933]

The Covenant definitely gets props for it's realism. The Grunts breath methane so they always wear their suits and the atmosphere of the ships was sometimes hard for humans to breath as it is thick and oily to humans.

[@mastershooter64]

lmao i was literally gonna comment about the covenant right now

[@squirlmy]

@@WolfeSaber9933 I get describing an atmosphere as "thick", I get, but "oily"??? Even if an atmosphere contained microparticles... as a smoker of multiple substances, I assure you I've never experienced "oily". Thick smoke, pungent smoke, light smoke: no oily.

[@WolfeSaber9933]

@@squirlmy The oily was from Fall of Reach when Blue Team first boarded a Covenant cruiser to plant a nuke.

[@emib6599]

@Dan Nguyen you are forgetting the covenant remnants and the banished

[@benjaminconnor6640]

I've always wanted to see a xenomorph in a Starfleet uniform. A monster Uplifted into sapience, would make for a very unique crewmember to serve with.

[@Ron4885]

Yeah. Can you imagine a xenomorph wearing a Starfleet shirt. lol, I wouldn't mind seeing that.

[@benjaminconnor6640]

@@Ron4885 Yeah, watching them eat would be something of a splatterfest. I'm thinking an explosion of oatmeal across Ten-Forward's bulkheads

[@willywonka4340]

That would be very problematic. Whenever they get a minor cut, the entire ship goes into red alert mode 🚨 trying to contain a hull breach to avoid life support failure .🤦‍♂️

[@jacobfoss7783]

@@willywonka4340 they have exoskeletons, so inflicting that cut would be easier said than done.

[@kathrynadkisson8964]

@@jacobfoss7783 they aren’t that strong as you would think but u r not wrong. The main problem is their reproduction. How would that even work safely?

[@BoisegangGaming]

Speaking of multi-species empires, NEVER toggle on Xeno-Compatibility in Stellaris, unless you've got like only 2-3 other empires. Otherwise, prepare for lag. I believe I've seen half-half-half-half species.

[@IAsimov]

I'm an extreme xenophile player, but not even *I* am going to touch it. I swear to God I remember seeing a half-human half-Venus Flytrap species when I did...

[@13deadghosts]

That's why i always purge the Xenos. There is no lag if there is no aliens :D

[@feosty5526]

As a fanatic xenophobe player I would not even entertain such blasphemous thoughts

[@InvaderNatDT]

Yeah I just tried my first Xeno-Compatible species empire the other week. Never again unless I very strictly allow only a few other species in.

[@BoisegangGaming]

The amount of people spouting Fanatic Xenophobe memes isn't funny. Get a different joke guys.

[@squirlmy]

Solaris by Stanisław Lem is an interesting example of just how difficult it might be to co-exist with a truly "alien" intelligence. It makes the rest of these "human in costume" aliens tropes a joke. Imagine co-existing with a planet that reads minds and incorporates dead loved ones from your memories.

[@brinehound]

@Cuvtixo D Or consider Orson Scott Card's "Pequinos" or "Descolada" from the Ender Saga. "Pandora's Star" is another great book as well as its sequal "Judas Unchained" authored by Peter Hamilton

[@squirlmy]

@@brinehoundI'm not really a sci-fi fan. Shhh! Just widely read enough and interested enough to catch Isaac's videos. Don't tell anyone!

[@brinehound]

@Cuvtixo D You've got to read some of these books, they're fantastic. Not to agrandise IA, but he's right about hard SF, as most if not all of those authors incorporate hard science in their works.

[@deltave6361]

@@brinehound The Enderverse displays truly awesome examples of aliens, and even makes a point to define different types of aliens, such as raman and Varelse

[@ianharrison5758]

I think at that point, any sufficiently advanced race capable of understanding such a divergent life at all knows they aren’t really compatible and their natures don’t mix. This usually means war in sci fi, but I tend to think it would trend more towards races like that meeting, identifying the problem and both agreeing to just leave eachother alone because unless we are talking about billions up billions of years it would take for us to use enough enough of the universes resources not to just find more somewhere else, just vanish into thin air we have more than enough room for both of us, and it’s far better for both of us to pursue our own way to halt local entropy, or other hax tech that is theoretically possible, rather than fight over resources so abundant that the waste alone was more valuable than any benefit we go from taking it from someone else. There is the issue that while intelligence knows intelligence, nature doesn’t recognize nature in the psychological sense. That means some species would be that divergent and wouldn’t be able to comprehend that while we are clearly different and intelligent creatures, that we don’t act the same, until it has to react to the one thing that can overcome a difference like that: violence. Even if by all other signs that someone would be down to do something, A guaranteed answer that translates to no, no matter how different we are, is a kick in the metaphorical balls. If they are indeed intelligent, they’ll realize they’d rather just leave us alone than deal with the consequences of violating us

[@charlesrockafellor4200]

*Yay for me: 9/10 on the geek-o-meter!*

[@tiberiupaslaru3830]

You mean 19/10 🤓🤓🤓

[@charlesrockafellor4200]

@@tiberiupaslaru3830 😆 😂 🤣 Well, strictly... all that I can say for sure is that he said "...at least nine out of ten...", but I won't complain: 19/10 does have a certain ring to it! ❤️ (Though I counted only 13 specifically named, plus "countless" and similar terms, so I can't lay solid claim to a definite 19 specifically.)

[@AntonEugeneLanthier]

This comment is 9/10 on the cringe-o-meter...

[@charlesrockafellor4200]

@@AntonEugeneLanthier Wow, that is so sweet of you to say! I've always aspired for a perfect 10 at cringe, but I'll take what I can get - and coming from you, that's a really solid endorsement! Gosh darn and golly gee whiz, do you think that I could ever be as intensely cool as you? _Somehow?_ PLEEEEEEASE?

[@joelkroodsma3257]

@@AntonEugeneLanthier don't like it don't read it

[@yeager1957]

21:45 This also applies well to the Saiyans from the Dragonball series, where their concept of science is counting the days until a full moon so they blow things up more betterer, but a spacefaring despot realized that having a entire race of space orcs under their command was pretty useful

[@Giganfan2k1]

That space despot realized they didn't need an entire planet worth of them at some point.

[@Pwnicus187]

@@Giganfan2k1 Damn those Saiyan monkeys 😂

[@georgebulbakwa9017]

The visual overlays reminds me of the Asarii in Mass Effect. There's background conversation of different species explaining how they saw the Asarii. Everyone saw them differently but all saw them close to their own species.

[@David-bh7hs]

You leave out the part where the asarii in question was an exotic dancer

[@mickomoo]

The guys talking had also been drinking right? But I’m pretty sure there’s a theory in-universe that the Asari emit pheromones that alter how each race perceives them, making the features the most have in common with a particular race look more exaggerated if a member of that race is interacting with them.

[@Deridus]

Best background conversation in ME2, that one. In 3, it's in the bar as well. Hmm...

[@Zarcondeegrissom]

Everyone saw them differently but all saw them close to their own species. in a way, describes the Vorlon from B5, however that was manipulation of other species to mentally recognize them more than some fancy visual holographic trickery.

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

@@mickomoo but the asari can fit and wear human spacesuits, so it's unlikely they're using some illusion to make us find them attractive.

[@nipoone6109]

I've always been fascinated by the Combine from Half-life. An inter-dimmensional empire, they conquer and enslave other species and modify them into weapons. The Combine aren't even present in the game, they left a poultry security force to guard earth as they extracted the planet's resources. Their actual military would completely destroy the rebel forces in no time at all. All of Earth's militaries with late 20th century technology lasted just seven hours.

[@TheJarric]

same in colony tv show theres no aliens on planet at all far as humans can tell

[@BigZebraCom]

I was going to create a multi-species empire of my own--but then things got really busy at work.

[@BettyWhiteTheVibratorSlayer]

Is that you Lord?

[@BigZebraCom]

@@BettyWhiteTheVibratorSlayer No... but I get mistaken for him a lot.

[@ortherner]

sus

[@BigZebraCom]

@@ortherner Yes.

[@selkrasouza6262]

It can take a while when life gets in the way. I’ve been at it since 2009.

[@stcredzero]

Here's a what-if scenario: What if the notion of "civilization" in our galaxy is as small and quaint as a wolf's notion of "pack" on our human dominated Earth? What if an ascended species appears to us and invites us to join "galactic civilization" but really, this maps analogously to how our pet dogs regard their human owners as leaders of their "pack?" In the same way, we would regard a wild pack of wolves in our neighborhood to be something of a nuisance, an exponentially expanding "civilization" of trillions of humans might well be a nuisance to ascended hyper intelligences who regard the building of Dyson Swarms like we might regard wild critters building hives or dens? I could easily see how hyper-intelligences might regard a "civilization" as a kind of moral horror/conundrum. It would have all of the ravenous exponentially expanding qualities of a hegemonizing swarm, while at the same time creating a moral conundrum by being composed of individual sentiences. One can't morally exterminate such a thing, even though it has all the disadvantageous qualities of a hegemonizing swarm.

[@yoshikhurazi1769]

There is actually a direct analogy here to how indigenous people perceived French colonists in what is now called Quebec. They considered the French as little better than slaves since they had to obey their captains without question, they also noticed how they did not look out for each others needs, constantly cut each other off in conversation, and seemed quite inarticulate (since unlike their own chiefs who had to rely on persuasion to get their people to do what they wanted in council meetings where everyone attended, the French instead relied on strict chains of command and coercion). These indigenous critiques of European society later arrived in Europe through transcripts from Jesuit missionaries and were enormously popular and might have kicked off the enlightenment. Indeed, the words "equality" and "liberty" were almost unused in Europe till the 16th century. There is a tendency among western societies to assume hunter foragers are living in a state of innocence from the trappings of civilization but most of them have either flirted with or were in direct contact with agriculture or more stratified states. More often than not, their lifestyle is a political conscious choice, not the product of blissful ignorance.

[@ilyarepin7750]

this sounds a lot like revisionism

[@yoshikhurazi1769]

@@ilyarepin7750 Well arguably the current dominant position is the real revisionism that makes the highly condenscending (and nonsensical considering the Jesuits beliefs) position that all such accounts of indigenous accounts of the period were mere inventions by European thinkers to act as a shield against consequences from publishing controversial ideas - by putting them in the mouths of "savages". However, the sheer volume of such accounts as well the fact that there were indigenous ambassadors that visited Europe on diplomatic missions and how the nature of their critiques line up well with Ethnographic accounts of the practices of people's in those regions makes this explaination lacking, to say the least.

[@yoshikhurazi1769]

@Darryl Revok there is no such thing as a group that has universally conquered the world at any point in human history. The largest empire ever was the British Empire and it was still one of several. People are never in fact unthinking drones but that doesn't mean that society cannot (and indeed has not) expected them to act as such. There is also a strong correlation with the size of an empire and the level of stratification of its society, so indeed if an empire ever did somehow conquer the entire world, it would almost definitely involve the use of an underclass treated as little more than drones.

[@AndrewManook]

@Darryl Revok Don't need to go that far, just look at america.

[@SolarFlareAmerica]

"visitors to your territory are either a threat or food" Not really true, there are numerous species with symbiotic relationships that they're both happy with.

[@ponyote]

DS9 is definitely the pinnacle of that era of Trek, at least to me.

[@capitanesejapitalism1679]

shatner interviewing cisco on the piano is the pimple on the pinnacle :P

[@CeresKLee]

Cue the Viking Chorus: "War, war, war / War, War, War / Lovely War! Wonderful War / Beautiful War, Constant War!" I vote no. DS9 that some great episodes, and excellent actors but I agree with George Takei that DS9 was the polar opposite of Gene Roddenberry's philosophy and vision of the future. Star Trek: Discovery, more so.

[@claxvii177th6]

The combine from half life still gives me the chills. Talk about a horrifying dystopian multi-species empire

[@steverempel8584]

I like to think that the G-Man works for some sort of powerful multidimensional organization that sees the Combine as a genuine threat to the multiverse, and want to take it down. They orchestrated the events in Half-Life 1 in order to introduce Earth to the Combine, so that they could use Gordan Freeman to finally take them down once and for all.

[@pendragon0905]

According to my understanding of the Combine, they actually don't even naturally procreate; the Combine is an empire of bioengineered species who reproduce either through genetic engineering or cloning. The people of the Combine are basically a machine race; the Combine is nothing kiddish like the Borg, and is totally horrifying in how realistic this interstellar empire could be.

[@spacepiratecaptainrush1237]

I've done some thinking about this and came up with the idea of a subversion of a lot of the Sci-fi multi species empires of space opera. the logic is this, while it seems like two species that are similar should form common ground, more often then not they end up in antagonistic situations because their very similarity also puts them in direct competition for planets and resources. Where as a Species with dramatically different biology will have different needs and wants. Humans want that nice blue marble of oceans, oxygen and temperate climate, where someone else might want to live in the depths of a gas giant, lots of systems probably have both so no reason not to share. that proximity would likely result in trade, agreements etc. there may not be a hard line between territories as Sci-fi likes to picture it and in those overlap zones, new alliances could form.

[@therealspeedwagon1451]

But we don’t know of any species that live inside gas giants. For all we know they could want blue balls of ocean and continents too. Or maybe they want worlds that are vast deserts, or worlds that are frozen glacier covered arctic worlds that resemble that of Hoth and Snowball Earth. Humans are very adaptive to all kinds of environments and could very well thrive on those worlds too as we’ve conquered every environment on this planet from lush plains to tropical rainforests to the deserts and savannas. We should also mention the darker side of interstellar interspecies relationships; the idea that there will be highly militaristic, xenophobic, and oppressive alien empires who want nothing more than the subjugation and enslavement of others. Or perhaps the ones who are so afraid of any outsiders they are hellbent on scouring the galaxy of any xeno filth.

[@ponyote]

Every time I see the animation of the cyborg panthers, my brain plays a filk. "Go, Go Panther Rangers" complete with wailing 90s guitar.

[@samsamsamsamsamanilla5281]

I like the example put forth in Children of Ruin book by Adrian Tchaikovsky where there are uplifted spiders, ants and octopi working along side with humans

[@ancapftw9113]

10k year old man: *shakes GrASER rifle* "hey you kids, get out of my Star system" 1k year old people: "I'm not a kid!"

[@SpottedHares]

Sad you didn’t mention the Holy Covenant Empire from Halo.

[@itsmrchimp1788]

Yes

[@joemariejames4757]

Holy what?

[@tristanbackup2536]

Yep. A pretty realistic take on how multi-specie empire would work. Because how different their all are, it was hard enough to keep the empire functioning, it had so much infighting.

[@sharonbraselton3135]

Yes kike earth

[@barahng]

The Federation in Star Trek reminds me of the Delian League which would later become the Athenian Empire. It was started by Athens as a voluntaristic association of Greek city states to defend against an outside threat, the Persians. After the threat had passed, when member states tried to leave the league, they found themselves "persuaded" by Athenian military might not to. You see, Athens had grown accustomed to having that much territory and resources under its control. It couldn't go back. Although to be fair it was the brightest period in Athens' already storied history.

[@jmd1743]

The Federation was like a 20th century company store economy that included it's own company currency. In the TOS they had an actual economy before it was retconned. We could make a trade deal with a entity but only to find that the currency they pay with is usable only on one planet out of thousands. We fantasized about noble aliens species to only be making business deals with a bunch of dicks who make the ferengi look nice like saints.

[@TheJarric]

@@jmd1743 fed can trade with precios metals like gold and have treded with starhip materials

[@carlosrgns]

Considering the genetic differences within a single tiny village in india is greater than that of Europe due to centuries of caste system, if you keep that going long enough then natural speciation seems quite plausible

[@bentuovila5296]

That's something that I think is underappreciated in these discussions. Humanity is incredibly diverse to the point aliens would classify us as subspecies or maybe even separate species. A wolf and a Weiner dog can technically interbreed but no one would consider them the same species because of it.

[@matheussandbakk9959]

@@bentuovila5296 Well the most common definition of species is that of a group of related organisms, capable of breeding with each other and have the offspring also be fertile Hence why Donkeys and Horses are considered different species as they can breed mules, but the mule itself is infertile However even this definition have problems and Grolar Bears, the hybrid offspring of Polar and Grizzly Bears is still fertile, even though this two animals are considered different species

[@dragoned7685]

@@bentuovila5296The Human Genome Project has shown that is more genetic variation within populations than between them. There is no scientific basis for dividing humanity into different subspecies.

[@bentuovila5296]

@@dragoned7685 and the variation is height is greater within groups than the variation between the means of the groups. That doesn't imply there are not height differences between groups. There are graphs that make this very easy to understand

[@TransformersNibbasInDisguise54]

I want to be able to communicate with aliens that are about 95% of our intelligence but I would likely be disturbed by it. It's going to be an interesting future

[@squirlmy]

I'm disturbed by humans that are "average" intelligence!! I certainly don't need to be with dumber aliens, stupid humans are bad enough! I embrace my elitism!

[@MrCmon113]

Yall are less than 90% of my intelligence and you're not disturbed.

[@silvermiracle4200]

@@MrCmon113 I'm disturbed by your lack of bitches.

[@therockingvolbeat3630]

@@MrCmon113 bit vein are we?

[@linz8291]

What if it's depends on if ET wanna communicate with you.

[@Californianbychoice]

We forget that we can maintain our current multiethnic states bc humans are a very homogenous species (we all breath the same air, eat more or less the same food etc and are the same size, intelligence and basic human nature), it still took us centuries to figure out how alike we are. A galactic civilization spanning species that may not even answer our definition for "life", who will have vastly diffeent kind of intelligences (for example, imagine a species that developed non-Euclidian mathematics first!) And systems of logic, diffrent instincts and urges might be impossible to maintain (imagine explaining sexuality to a sentient rock, or self preservation to an appandage of a hive mind).

[@ianharrison5758]

I think a reasonable way to avoid conflict in those scenarios is the universal understanding that competition brings danger and unless it’s necessary to their own survival in that very moment to attack, it’s better to just leave eachother alone. By the time there’s few enough resources to actually need to fight over, a species that old should have tech so advanced the need for space and time at all is laughable. Imagine a species that can download its consciousness in a perfect simulated reality that could ignore the entropy of our universe and not experience it in their simulations. A never ending simulation immune to entropy siting alone in oblivion, or other crazy shit like that

[@djdrack4681]

The Hirogen in ST: Voyager are an interesting middle of the road situation. They had a large interstellar empire, so presumably there were multiple species in it, but it was ruled by the Hirogen who primarily used other species as prey in a 'hunt'.

[@djdrack4681]

I should note that such a combat/physically strong species is 100% relativistic on what species it is being compared to. A Klingon could be superior when compared to a human of comparable height/humanoid: but compare the klingon to something like a Hork-bajir, or a giant 100ft crab with 100 limbs and it is pointless arguing who would win a fight w/o weapons.

[@HOLDENPOPE]

I love how the aliens dance in tune to the music.

[@thedoruk6324]

Captain Kirk and the united federation of planets as well as alien -waifu- girlfriend enthusiasts approve this episode wholeheartedly

[@jasonhare8540]

I just have to say this is now my primary form of entertainment on KZbin . I love this channel . It's what I wanted the discovery channel or the history channel to be . Thank you for your hard work .

[@mikelfunderburk5912]

I see y'all have taken our advice and included more dancing aliens.

[@sharonbraselton3135]

Yes. We need tons dwn eveil aline fun alies exist too

[@linz8291]

lol...we can build some multi-species galactic civilization and to study how to dance with them...

[@Vaeldarg]

@Isaac Arthur Haven't watched the whole video yet, but in the first few minutes it is mentioned that visitors to your territory tend to only be positive if can either mate with or eat them. There is also a third option that appears in nature in which even if something can't be eaten, the two can enter a mutually-beneficial/exploitive relationship and it can lead to being usable to identify/trade/lure something that can be eaten instead of the visitor themselves.

[@petersmythe6462]

I think between physical, chemical, and biomolecular incompatibilities, aliens aren't likely to be too keen on living in the same habitat as one another.

[@Khornedevotee]

That of course depends how far apart the habitats are from us and other extraterrestrial species, as in how different they really are. Gravity is a big factor as well. Oxygen levels and stuff like that.

[@LordTalax]

Orville is a homage to star trek not a parody. It uses the star trek formula to make its own story, it doesn't exist just to make star trek jokes.

[@silverray7382]

You should totally read the book “Three Square Meals” it is a sci-fi space opera erotica, but it has got one of the best backstory about how the universe formed, and why there are so many human look alike Aliens.

[@johannageisel5390]

I'm not interested in reading the book, but I would like to know why there are so many human look alike Aliens. Would you please tell me?

[@stegosandrosos1291]

Erotica?

[@fredkelly6953]

Man the visuals and graphics are light years away from those early videos. Actually the show has become a very professional package where even your "speech impediment" is as integral as the graphics and visuals. Personally I find your Elmar Fudd with a southern drawl accent unique and I'd put you in the same boat as Sagan and Attenborough although sitting in the stern perhaps.

[@MWhaleK]

We would very likely be able to work with any species we created, because we created them from species we already work with.

[@jefferybrown6473]

Harbinger: "Assuming direct control."

[@virutech32]

idk man. i like cats as much as the next guy but cats aren't likely to be particularly decent people if uplifted. I can work with the little sociopaths if im smarter than them but a generally intelligent cat that still gets off on watching its victims struggle to live before killing them is another story. Same for dolphins. Not sure id be able to get along those rapey violent freaks

[@Aethelos]

@@virutech32 Why are you trying to apply a moral perspective to something that doesn't likely comprehend it? Uplifting the species would theoretically change that, at the very least their ability to grasp larger moral concepts.

[@virutech32]

@@Aethelos What do you mean? I'm applying the human moral frameworkd because they likely wouldn't share it. Having different morals would make working together a lot harder. Making them smarter would surely let them underatand human morals, but that doesn't mean they would share them.

[@Aethelos]

@@virutech32 I agree with that point, I'd misunderstood your original comment as if they should somehow be innately moral by our own standards, even in their current stage.

[@kejaris949]

09:50 the alien controlling a remote body is a cool concept. Like how the Racnai from Mass Effect control hosts dead or alive.

[@seand.g423]

Pretty sure he's talking more of an Avatar/Surrogates type setup...

[@barryon8706]

I think in the multi-species empire of the future, humans will excel at eating contests. We seem to be able to eat things that'd make other critters drop dead.

[@Khornedevotee]

Yeah, I mean, there is a guy who ate parts of a plane. So why not? But on the other hand, that man doesn't represent the capacity of most humans. :D I certainly can't eat metal chunks without cutting my insides up or breaking my teeth and other nasty stuff. So while one could certainly try, in most cases that would be a very stupid idea.

[@linz8291]

until you up to higher dimensions with the other ET civilizations, or you still need to eating.

[@thesaurusakasickakatheomc7688]

Given the current state of reality here on earth, I feel like I would have trouble suspending my disbelief that an intergalactic alliance of species in which humans were the most diplomatic and charismatic could exist, let alone function.

[@johannageisel5390]

Hehe. That's why humans are considered primitive backwater folks in my story. They are the newest member of the galactic community and the leading species all think that humans need to learn being civilized first.

[@thesaurusakasickakatheomc7688]

@@johannageisel5390 They say to write what you know...

[@johannageisel5390]

@@thesaurusakasickakatheomc7688 Hehe. Yeah, I just have to look around in my neighbourhood.

[@robotmafiagaming]

sir, i just wanted to express my admiration at your use and knowledge of mass effect lore among your other talents. wish i could re-sub based solely on this episode. keep up the great work.

[@vii-cosmo525]

That alien party look so lite at the start.

[@linz8291]

Welcome to join galactic party.

[@richardgreen7225]

"Empire" implies some central direction. "Federation" implies collaboration. A federation makes more sense than an empire when communication delays and local interests are important. Intelligent (sane) behavior means following the primary rules of ethics: 1. Do no harm. 2. Do some good. 3. Ask permission. These social rules apply regardless of species or local-organization. IMO: Future conflicts will be settled like open-source version-control negotiations. There is no rationale that justifies trying to harm subgroups that happen to be running a different version of the software as long as they are not deliberately causing harm to other subgroups (criminal behavior).

[@dansmith1661]

It is just a name. Democracy is supposed to sound good, but seeing it in action how it destroys its populace in order to maintain its authority over its people, who voice concern over poor governance. Truckers in Canada, Yellow Jackets in Europe, etc..

[@nipoone6109]

@@dansmith1661 Why signal out democracy? It's one of the few systems that populations can even protest in the first place. Can't do that in Communism, Fascism, National Socialism, absolute monarchs, etc.

[@calvingreene90]

Having a multi-species confederation with one species massively over represented in the military might make sense if that species has a warrior instinct similar to the Klingons but a long history of empires growing till spectacularly selfdistructing till "empire" has become synonymous with "evil" so that they place great emphasis on being defenders and explorers. Particularly if you have different race that filters the recruits to keep out the fools that think that they would do empire right this time because the are smarter, wiser, more empathic... than the conquerors that came before. Star fleet would have made more sense if they had ships with virtually unpronounceable names and mostly one kind of alien crew. Then make an in-joke of a squadron of cruisers all named "Valiant".

[@zebonautsmith1541]

I think space is too big for "empires" but big enough so all species have plenty of safe space.

[@tranquilitybase8100]

Especially if FTL travel isn't possible.

[@davemarx7856]

I already love the lighthearted imagery for the opening

[@2013Arcturus]

As an avid Stellaris player, I NEVER sign migration treaties, and always purge the Xenos from my Empire.

[@exudeku]

Based and Exterminator-pilled

[@iylamstoy]

Pop/migration management can be so annoying not to mention faction approval, and I shudder to even think about the nightmare that xeno compatibility can be.

[@knightofficer]

Guys you can force spawn custom empires so you don't have to fuck around with the randomly generated ones

[@2013Arcturus]

@@knightofficer 100% of the empires in my galaxy are of my creation, aside from the Fallen empires and such obviously. I made Dungeons and Dragon race themed empires that I always play with. That said, I still don't want filthy Ogres or Kobolds or Mind Flayers in my empire....

[@knightofficer]

@@2013Arcturus no kobolds? Monstrous, they're my favorite little buds

[@Squeeko639]

Oooooweeeeeee here we go everybody!! I’ve been waiting for this exact topic for a while now

[@billpecoraro8421]

The danciing aliens were a cute touch for the intro lol

[@rogue047]

You're the best. Your content is the best. I didn't think I could admire or appreciate you more, but then you said you kept bees - between your consistent sharing of knowledge, inspiring new interests, and actively contributing to helping our planet's sustainability, I salute you, Sir!

[@AtomicDoorknob]

Mass Effect still has one of the greatest Sci-fi worlds ever created imo shoutouts to the Krogan

[@SquirrelASMR]

Those aliens dancing to the SFIA intro music is so happy go watch.

[@ClassicMagicMan]

This is one of my favorite videos on this channel.

[@CloseingStraw97]

dancing ayylmoas so that is a good start

[@optinoptimist]

Thanks for the upload!!! Your efforts are very much appreciated!! You're an amazing bright spot for me in the vast skies of the internet!!!

[@YadraVoat]

Thank you for acknowledging _The Orville_ !! ❤ I consider its Planetary Union simply the United Federation of Planets from an alternate quantum reality. (See _Parallels_ TNG S07, E11 )

[@lordinvictus793]

I'm surprised you didn't mention the Dominion from Star Trek. Which is a much more reflective mirror than the Borg.

[@lordinvictus793]

Oh wait you did, sorry.

[@Ching2x770]

Interstellar civilizations concept - Interesting 😃

[@paul9299]

Watching your videos year after year it's great to see that you continue to produce quality content and have gotten to the point where you don't put the close captioning reminder on your videos. Hopefully it's because that you have come to the point of realization that your listening audience could care less about a mild speech impediment and is engrossed in the content you provide. Great work across the board

[@rhuiah]

Great episode. One could argue that the more diverse a civilization, the more adaptable and innovative it would be, and thus the more successful. If so, over any length of time multi-species civilizations would quickly become the norm, even as their hidebound and increasingly marginalized peers look to their fluid, ever-shifting cultures with contempt.

[@dansmith1661]

There is a lot of diversity in the US and Europe and it is far from successful. It is tearing itself apart and turning into a garbage dump.

[@henryrameyjr5048]

Just found you. Great stuff. Been a Sci fi fan for many, many years as I am 67 cycles around sol. Thank for your good work.

[@MrBlack0950]

16:00 this is exactly what happened with starwars, as the first civilization to develope ftl travel, the rekatan empire, colonized and basically pulled a roman empire across the galaxy. They subsequently effected, created, and/or dramatically changed pretty much every world, sapient species, and culture they touched.

[@mjk9388]

Great episode! Great job Isaac and team!

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

it would have been perfect to bring up the Combine from Half-Life 2 when the topic of genetic castes came up, they're an especially notorious version of this

[@DaFinkingOrk]

They're like the most terrifying concept of a multi-species alien empire, a bit like the Borg but much much worse. It's species enslaved, broken into parts (individuals too) and mashed together in horrible ways with the sole purpose of performing one role efficiently while being incapable of anything else - turned into tools.

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

@@DaFinkingOrk they also see humanity as a superorganism instead of as individuals, so ruining one person to make him or her more fit for a specific function is no more sad to them than modifying one of the digits on your hand. I personally think that was a clever bit of writing to make them evil without being cartoonishly evil. They are intelligent, and they don't care about the desires and suffering of the species they conquer, but they also probably don't even notice a lot of it because of their alien outlook on living organisms.

[@charmedimsure8852]

Sweet! Finally Isaac, tackling the real questions.

[@jensboettiger5286]

Would make a lot of sense, especially if we can inhabit different types of environments. At least having sapient oceanic, land, and subterranean species would make sense since there is no meaningful overlap and would greatly improve resource management. Maybe separate deep sea vs littoral species as well.

[@bit-tuber8126]

Then there are interleaved empires for species where planets of interest to some are unappealing to others. Aspects include atmospheres, biomes, gravity, sun energy, length of days, length of years, percentage of water on planet. Land lubbers or underwater thrivers, where mineral levels become important. Large fresh lakes for some while oceans for others. Also going to assume asteroids and comet problems can be tamed and asteroids mined in bulk for metals, organics, and others. Yes, space habitats would make planetary surfaces unnecessary, technically, but I expect some traditions will carry on. On the flip side, some may learn to want space habitats.

[@joelkroodsma3257]

The geek-o-meter should be calibrated to your audience Isaac. I would be very surprised if any viewer didn't at least get 9 out of 10 sci-fi references!

[@joz6683]

A great day, a long walk with my wife in pleasant weather in one of the many parks. A cup of tea and biscuits and a new video, thanks for your tireless work 👍

[@magic76767676]

Like your speculation, In the Adrift on a Sea of Star series, one alien species is dominant among the rest by limiting critical technology such as FTL. (by pain of incinerating cities) Much of the Tarden Republic reflects the non-gladiator aspects of the Roman Empire. They have an agenda involves the long game and quietly think of the other species in their Republic more as zoo animals than second class citizens.

[@CharChar2121]

I would love to hear you talk about 40k and it's weirdness for an hour. Like, how is it more realistic than other settings?

[@mattmorehouse9685]

Wait, Issac Arthur said Warhammer 40k is more realistic? That really seems to conflict with his generally upbeat view of our future, which 40k is... not.

[@mxm23adregalusandmore62]

*Nobody Expects the uplifted whale inquisition!!*

[@Cytl-bu3nq]

Another example, while not different aliens, is The Star League from Battletech, and the constituent Great Houses and the Clans.

[@maplemayhem1988]

I created my own take on the multi species empire for a worldbuilding project. Took heavy inspiration from the Covenant, Called them the Collective, and made every member species an amalgamation of random animal traits and characteristics.

[@MikhaelHausgeist]

How much I love to listen such sci-fi discussions my brain feel pain not because of thing discussed, but because I'm not native with english and accent of narrator(or if it feel somehow offensive put there more appropriate term). I've lost at least 60% of info(at least feel so), but thankfully I catch idea. It is about how bad it is, but about HOW GOOD it is because despite such barriers for me I still listening it time to time. I wish some scenarist or other game developers use such ideas(mean all of them there talked about, not particular one) much more often because games are much more interactive, but gap in adeas with literature are endless unfortunately. Thank You for Your work mr. Arthur!

[@PlanetOcean]

I have been on all seas and oceans on this planet and 99,99% of the time I have seen nothing out of the ordinary, from Canada to South Africa, from North Europe to Argentina, from US to Australia and so on... I like vry much mr. Arthur being in same time same age like him. All the best.

[@DavidEvans_dle]

Just image, waiting the length of the entire human written history - performing S.E.T.I. research. Then finding ET, and now being part of a crowded Multi-species Empire.

[@Khornedevotee]

The first problem comes when you want to estabilish contact. The language barrier is the first obstacle. What are they saying? What do they want? What are their goals? Ambitions? Philosophy? What are their cultures like? How many cultures do they have? Are they one big civilisation or a collection of them on each planet, just like here on Earth, or are they willing to work together with us? Are they hostile? Are they benevolent? Are they neutral? What capacity do they have for war? Can they fight well? Can they defend each other well? Are they more advanced than us? If so, by how much? Would they attack first out of fear or contempt or would they want to talk first? Finding an extraterrestrial civilisation is only one step on the journey of estabilish communications and collaboration with an unfamiliar species. Understanding them is crucial. Once we have that problem out of the way, then we're in business. Then that species can tell us about the galactic political charter map, how many other civilisations they know of and which they are working with, and which ones they know to be hostile and which they warn us to stay clear off. If you ask me, most super advanced civilisations, in terms of technology, will be benevolent 9/10 times, so they'd be much more interesting in observing us from a distance in worst case scenario and estabilish trade, communications and an alliance in best case scenario. The reason we fear some extraterrestrial civilisations will be hostile(and some of them may very well be hostile, so we should at least consider that and be careful with whom we reach out to, but without avoiding ALL contact with foreign powers) is because we have been hostile to those tribal civilisations weaker than our more modern ones in the past, and we are still in some regards hostile to each other to this day. So we assume all or even most aliens more advanced than us would do the same. We don't have any other references or insight in how it is usually done between most civilisations out there. But the ''evil aliens'' trope is soo common in pop culture for this very reason, but that's what makes it interesting. Drama is necessary for a good story. So stuff like Halo, Mass Effect, Warhammer 40k, Starcraft, Star Wars, Star Trek, etc. all makes for great entertainment. But it probably doesn't represent the actual reality. For now, we can only speculate.

[@Khornedevotee]

The really hostile civilisations will most likely be on our technological level, or even far less advanced than us. Aggressive expansions isn't really popular nor necessary these days for political stability(you can argue that it never was, but it was a way of insurance to make sure that foreign hostile nations would think twice before invading you). Of course, aggressive expansionism was mostly about greed, for rulers wanting more power. I'd say it is more likely that those far superior to us in terms of technology will generally speaking not be hostile. Most of them will probably not even be interested in contacting us. Maybe some will. Possibly for benevolent mutually beneficial reasons, but possibly also because of dishonest and evil ulterior motives. Perhaps it would be to keep tabs on us. In any case, it will probably be centuries, if not millennia before we find even ONE extraterrestrial civilisation somewhere in our galaxy.

[@joemariejames4757]

@@Khornedevotee sorry to burst your bubble pal but they DON'T EXIST.

[@Khornedevotee]

@@joemariejames4757 I will ignore that because you have no way of knowing that.

[@joemariejames4757]

@@Khornedevotee No evidence = they Do not exist or No white house lawn landing = They don't exist.

[@Thanosdidtherighthing]

Love the videos Issac !

[@complex314i]

I always saw the "Cruel Mockery" of the Federation to be the Dominion, not the Borg. Additionally, with respect to the human overrepresentation, I really liked that the Interstellar Alliance from Babylon 5, centered on the Mimbari instead of Humans.

[@patrickmchargue7122]

A good romp through the possibilities. My thinking has it that FTL = impossible, that we're not the first, but are too distant from other civilizations to matter. That expansion will likely be done after we're non-organic, and that speciation as non-organic life forms will be rather abundant.

[@Vaeldarg]

You can cycle back to organic, as well, by the non-organic life form growing an organic body that is controlled through BCI technology.

[@winterx2348]

in the comic i'm working on, there's literally only one human character and the rest are all different species of aliens involved in a big galactic government. it's ran mostly by one species of aliens that quickly took over because they are insanely good at managing their own populations and loyalty due to all reproduction being permanently tied to their homeworld. they're pretty benevolent, all things considered, and they don't intentionally start shit with other people, but they tend to back other civilizations into a corner, which causes a lot of tension. they're too numerous to actually go to war with in any meaningful way, you'll just get completely swarmed, and by the time the story starts, they already greatly outnumber all other species combined so it's far too late. the overall situation is essentially "can't live with them, can't live without them."

[@casuallatecomer7597]

Interesting idea you got, got a title and a place to see/buy it?

[@winterx2348]

@@casuallatecomer7597 thank you!! Unfortunately, I dont have any idea when I will be able to start publishing it. I have chronic health issues and am bedridden too often to keep to a reliable schedule. If you ever come across a comic called Space Princess, most likely to be published on webtoon, then I hope you'll check it out!

[@Stebokanebo]

Just started 4 seconds ago. I already liked it because all these are bangers

[@dudebromcfrattington6488]

9/10 geekometer, 0/10 sex life.

[@Jay_Scott_Raymond]

I can recommend Walter Jon Williams standalone novel "Ambassador of Progress (1984)". It was a good read.

[@friendlytalbot4050]

Multi-species empires, I imagine, wouldn't work all that differently from how multi-ethnic countries do today. Most people will stay at home, but a number of people will, for whatever reason, migrate towards greener pastures and congregrate in areas in their new adopted homes, creating a sort of parallel society, where some will integrate more than others, be bilingual and bi-cultural. But that assumes alien species work like humans, and are not truly alien.

[@emib6599]

My mind it's so plagiarised by monster girls doujins that the first thing i think about an "multi species galactic empire" is " how much common would be inter species sex ?"

[@alex_zetsu]

In the case of Star Trek, we do see some ships with not only a Vulcan captain but an entire bridge crew of Vulcans. In fact coutnign humans there have been 4 on screen examples of a mono-species federation ship. I guess most Vulcans just don't like the humidity on human-crewed ships?

[@TheRubsi]

I don't know if anybody here knows the salvation trilogy by peter hamilton but this episode made me think of that show again. In it there is one superior "old" species that basically controls the milky way and does certain things to the "younger" species (i don't want to spoil too much). So naturally it means that many of the "younger" species have set out their objective to defeat this larger powerful species and they naturally work together with others. We can see similar things happen on earth, whenever a larger problem arises the old problem is soon quickly forgotten and new friendshieps and alliances form in days. Something similar could happen when it comes to multi species "empires". Maybe there will be multiple smaller "empires" and eventually a bigger issue will come up (a super nova, vaccuum death of the universe or whatever else) and the species will just decide to work together. And to come back the the salvation series ... there is eventually an entity in the third book (Small spoiler ahead) that calls itself Immanuel but really it is just a representation of a larger entity of a species that just decided to leave their biological bodies behind and become "corpus". Their minds are all connected, but they still keep their individual personalities and their mind is also "hosted" on multiple computers, servers, etc. who are all connected. Basically at this point it wouldn't matter what biological species they ever came from, anybody can/could join them and become corpus.

[@savilene9773]

Woah, I want the crab's roar of approval.

[@bobmcbob9856]

One common trait of intelligent, sapient life is probably descent from a motile ancestor, as without the ability to move around one’s environment and it’s various advanced perception & information processing requirements, intelligence is unlikely to arise. This sessile intelligent species are only likely to exist if they removed the need for their physical bodies to move through technology later on or some similar scenario

[@edchampion3720]

Love this channel

[@futurehistory2110]

34:05 Good for when we're all chilling on our interstellar space colony for a few millenia at a time.

[@jeffreyatlee8785]

I am really beginning to buy into the idea that we will tailor our evolution to the evolution of space time with the mission being survival of the death of this universe and all others

[@citizenerased7214]

I had an idea for a cosmic horror story, with a hyper-evolved unified intelligence going multiversal, only to discover they've jumped from being plankton to the smallest fish in the sea

[@Ghost0fDawn]

Drug Commercials: Side affects may include bleeding, diarrhea, and death. People in the ad: 0:13

[@tonoornottono]

have you talked about the Dark Forest Hypothesis yet? i’d be interested in your take since you seem very interested in communicating with other species.

[@virutech32]

He made a vid on it just check the fermi paradox playlist or look up dark forest isaac arthur

[@spencerclark7122]

I figured the Xindi from Star Trek Enterprise would wet a mention on this episode.

[@comentedonakeyboard]

The sphere builders objected to it.

[@seb-fluffysnowcap9530]

Don't forget the accidentally client species of THE BOB

[@azpatriot7937]

more realistic is: you dont bother us we wont bother you lets trade some stuff

[@UrdnotChuckles]

I figure once enough tech pops up to allow people to undergo radical enhancement and / or self actualization you're going to see something akin to a multi-species civilization right here on Earth. :)

[@OneEyedMonkey9000]

Do cats enjoy playing with their prey just like the Wraith ? 🐈

[@stanislavstoimenov1729]

You're getting better, Isaac.

[@1973Washu]

A sophant species would probably be prone to being cooperative if it is in their best interest. And there is no reason why a species with different requirements for ideal colony worlds could not live comfortably together and share resources , for example a species that likes higher gravity worlds would probably be glad to find a sophant species that is comfortable in low or zero gravity since they would be able to trade for resources from worlds they dislike putting colonies on.

[@Mr.Cheeseburger24]

That intro literally scared the living crap out of me, those eyes omg