Islam destroyed its own "Golden Age" - Neil deGrasse Tyson & Steven Weinberg

Steven Weinberg and Neil deGrasse Tyson describe how the "Golden Age of Islam" collapsed under islamic dogma and has not recovered intellectually or scientifically to this day. V. S. Ramachandran adds an extra cherry on top.
Edited together from the following clips, mostly from the Beyond Belief 2006 conference.
• 2. Steven Weinberg (2 ...
• 12. Neil deGrasse Tyso...
• 13. Neil deGrasse Tyso...
• 32. V.S. Ramachandran ...
• Neil deGrasse Tyson Le...

[@williamreymond2669]

Hamid al-Ghazali was a Persian, not an Arab. It is worth considering that the, so called, Islamic Golden Age, was actually the last efflorescence of an ancient Persian civilization, and not the sudden sprouting of a new Islamic civilization, and that once ended it was never repeated.

[@Callingnone]

I would say, as smart and a great orator Neil Degrass Tyson is, he has been wrong and incorrect in his knowledge of history and culture is average at best and blatantly incorrect at worst. I wish he does a better job in getting out of his own over-confidence.

[@user-th5ui4ib3y]

Al-Chwarizmi was Persian as well.

[@williamreymond2669]

Thanks for pointing that out.@@user-th5ui4ib3y

[@anubis8586]

@@Callingnonehe’s incredibly uneducated & uncultured on a multitude of topics yet speaks with great confidence and people eat it up without revising because of his “accolades & intelligence”

[@anubis8586]

It wasn’t purely Persian at all though. It was Arab, North African, Egyptian & Andalusian as well so idk what you’re talking about.

[@tombrunila2695]

Nobody who talks about "islamic science" would describe what Newton, Copernicus, Gallilei, Pasteur or Koch did as "Christian science"!

[@jackofasgard9108]

Newton was a Christian-unitarian, Copernicus was Canon of the prince-bishopric of Warmia in Prussia, Gallilei worked directly for the Catholic Church and the Jesuits, Pasteur was a devout catholic, so you could call it Christian science

[@tombrunila2695]

@@jackofasgard9108 yes it could be done, but it is not done because in Western countries religion and science are seen as two quite separate things that have nothing to do which each other.

[@Lee-jh6cr]

​@@jackofasgard9108Unitarianism at the time was barely Christian. Galileo was tried by the Inquisition and forced to retract, living his life out under house arrest - for discovering heliocentrism independently of Aristarchus 1,800 yrs prior. Christiaan Huygens - The world is my country, science my religion. Leonardo had close calls with the church. Elements of the Catholic Church later denounced Copernicus, , ,

[@jackofasgard9108]

@@Lee-jh6cr keep coping lefty

[@Lee-jh6cr]

@@jackofasgard9108 OK, assjackofgard.

[@person1813]

Dr. Abdus Salam, who was mentioned here, was an Ahmadi, who were declared heretics in 1974 by the Pakistani constitution. He fled his homeland after Islamists seized power in a military coup in 1977 and lived out his life in the West. On his gravestone, the word “Muslim” has been erased because it is illegal to call him that in Pakistan. So even one out of very few Muslims to excel in science, who helped Pakistan develop nuclear weapons btw, was chased out of his Islamic country, his community violently persecuted, wasn’t allowed to call himself a Muslim and has been erased from the history of Pakistan and the Muslim world in general. I don’t think the Mongols sacking Baghdad can really be blamed for that, can it?🤨

[@ShaneHill-mu4yi]

Disgusting.

[@toddbeamer6131]

They also cannot be buried in muslim cemeteries. Persecuted just like other groups of 'non-believers'.

[@mohammadabdulazeez2408]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@toddbeamer6131Lmao, Ahmadi was a dude who claimed to be the “Messiah” in spirit, and flipping the Islamic teachings of the end times inside out. Of course he was going to be ousted as a heretic for falsely claiming to be a prophet, adding to the teachings and mocking Islam. We aren’t like most Christians who would just yawn as half your priests start advocating gay marriage. There’s a reason why Christianity has 40+ non canon books, it’s teachings are all over the place, and there’s more “viable” Christian sects than my fingers and toes. Many of those under Christianity are atheistic and even those who do believe in their Bible, could care less about “needing” to follow those teachings because belief is apparently enough. Despite the fact that the Bible states that with faith should come action. Meanwhile, Muslims have one agreed upon book and they have the biggest religious sect in the world. Many sources state that Christianity has over tens of thousands of denominations. If you want to interpret your Bible however you like and bring in new sects or prophets or “Messiahs” in the spirit be my guest, but don’t expect us to do the same. When Islam has the biggest religious sect in the world it’s quite obvious that this was no accident and that you are missing a core understanding about Islam as a religion and know nothing about its history or politics. So it’s quite disgraceful for you to make such an outrageous accusation about a topic with which you didn’t bother researching in depth, when you yourself probably did not touch your Bible for the last month.

[@parshiwal887]

Irony is that Abdul Salam, the noble laureate was declared non-Muslim by his own country. I wish these small talks could be played to school kids in Pakistan, Saudia Arabia, Iran , Afghanistan and so many countries like them

[@notreallydavid]

Nobel - but lose no sleep. All best

[@scout2469]

It say's a lot about a culture when you have to step back in time 1,000 years, to find something good to say about it.

[@vrijevoeten]

brian heacock Not only do they have to step back in time, they also have to lie about these inventors. All part of Fantasy Islam.

[@MariusCxxx]

Don't forget the crusades!

[@medstud]

Honestly now, how many of you idiots are paid/organized trolls and how many are just down right ignorant? The point of the video was to highlight that even a developed culture -for its time- can unravel with unscientific thinking, a lesson to take from them, NOT to use it to further your superficial pathetic understanding of X or Y region because current events gave you a window to vent your socio-economic anxieties at the 'foreigners'.

[@coweatsman]

Could be our future through our own foolishness. We have all the elements of madness in feminism that Islam had.

[@coweatsman]

If you look at Europe at the same time.

[@jbonkerz]

So there are people who blame the Mongols sacking Baghdad as the reason for the decline? The Mongols sacked a lot of places that recovered just fine.

[@user-oc7gq8iv4v]

The reason for the decline is Islam itself.

[@manawa3832]

yeah its not like the mongols depopulated 'most places'. taking populations from several millions to an estimated two hundred thousand. not like they didnt eradicate all vestiges of writing, possibly wiping out 3/4 of irreplaceable historical knowledge we will never get back. not like they didnt slaughter and destroy 'most places' to the point that they built pyramids of human skulls. historical revisionism is fun, but the mass graves dont lie

[@AmurTiger]

I think a lot of it has to do with the character of the religion and it's relative youth at the time of the Mongol conquest and then the particular nature of the Mongols and the brutality of the conquest. Islam, as a young Abrahamic religion that had conquered in all directions up until that point knew no humility and didn't know how to react to a setback. If you read up on the Jewish revolts during the Roman empire you see a similar tendency towards extremely violent stubbornness when it comes to military conquest with similarly bloody results for all involved. With the Jews though they were given a better chance to come to terms with their defeat as the Romans were a 'Complete Package' as a civilization, you could point to more then just military force and Imperialism that allowed them to build and maintain the Empire. Thus over time the Jewish diaspora could settle into the Empire feeling that they were part of a civilization that was as civilized as themselves, even if they were wrong about god. The Mongols were a different sort and especially to an Urban Muslim there was little to admire in them but military might, certainly there was a lot more to the Mongols then this but it would have been harder to see then Roman baths, roads and coinage. It's not hard to see that with the Mongols proving that military might can trump all other aspects of civilization and al-Ghazali preaching against the Greek Philosophy that they'd been contemplating before that the Muslim world would react by focusing on what their conquerors were good at ( in their eyes ), military might. Christianity of course follows a rather different path as it's gestation was as part of a Pagan ( Roman ) Empire which it managed to convert with relatively minimal violence. It's largest setbacks can be attributed not to other religions but to different sects with the various Protestant vs Catholic wars being the high water mark for Christian violence culminating in the Peace of Westphalia which established non-interference in domestic affairs of other nations and respect for borders as core tenants of how Christian states would behave.

[@SandroAerogen]

None as bad they did Baghdad.

[@hunterofletter8467]

you cant blame it on that if you want to be honest but it was a major factor all the books in the house of wisdom library gone and all scientists living in there(all the area they sacked that means till almost the begening of palestine modern borders) died , yet still the reason is because the way people think changed they didn't appreciate scientists as they used to specially the government.

[@C5Dynamite]

if they say these today, both will be call islamophobic.

[@a2zed270]

chunlin05 I don't know about that, as it seems to be mainly about followers of Islam and not Islam as a religion. Even so, some of the the presented information can still be misleading.

[@celtman58]

that's exactly what they are saying

[@motivationaltripping5938]

Dude it's just like a jew thing am not a Muslim I was but not anymore but my family still Muslims and there are normal educated people and very open minded so when someone dis Islam is ight but when you Diss Muslims that shit hurts

[@almostafa4725]

@@worfoz get a life

[@worfoz]

@@almostafa4725 get a brain and use it, parasite

[@vonzuchter]

the mongols and the destruction they brought to the asian world also had a lot to do with the west catching up

[@jabronis33]

They destroyed China too

[@extragirth64]

Arabic numbering system is actually Indian. Indians were (and I guess still are) about mathematics. They had (and still have) cults revolving around numbers. EDIT: Hah! That guy at the end said it.

[@coweatsman]

It started in India but was transmitted by by Arabic traders. Doing business and working out percentages in I, V, X, L etc is just too clumsy by comparison.

[@dobypilgrim6160]

Yes I suppose the Muslim traders had to have a neat method of calculating all the slaves they sold to each other and the Europeans. (Tongue in cheek here of course. But only mildly.)

[@extragirth64]

+Maharshi Vishwamitra That's not even funny, tell that to the millions of enslaved and murdered Hindus. The Islamic invasion of India is the bloodiest of all their conquests. Fucking weirdo.

[@Adventurerblitz]

Do you remember the bloodshed when India was partitioned after the British made the region independent? Hindus and muslims hate each other and always have.

[@vincentanderson5794]

then tell india to stop letting muslims into there country.. why do every race on the planet let in the enemy of your own country.. Leaders of countries are idiots.. and that is why, dumb ass islam, can get in and fuck you up.. learn from other countries mistakes.. but nope! every leader thinks that islam will respect their country.. NO!! Islam will not!!

[@mojohns44]

When I was starting school in the mid-60's in the US the number systems was introduced as the "Hindu-Arabic" system. It seems America knew long ago about the true origins of our numerology but chose to edit out the Indian contribution in subsequent years.

[@SEKreiver]

Yeah, nice how Tyson forgot that that. Even many of the 'Muslim' scientists from that period were actually Christians, Zoroastrians and Jews. Even among the Muslims, many of the outstanding figures were PERSIANS, not Arabs.

[@m.b.8282]

That was not to because he wanted to forget indians it is because he wanted to make a point. Things he said about ghazali are not entirely true too, he caused destruction of islamic society but he was a great scientist too. He left out certain parts to make a point.

[@fanjarwijaksono552]

@@SEKreiver if you start labelling islam ONLY to Arabs, you better not coming to this comment section bro.

[@SEKreiver]

@Vinny Zigzag 비니 지그재그 I'm quite aware of Persia/Zoroastrianism. Persians were to the Arabs (and later Turks) what the Greeks were to the Romans. In fact, I consider the Persians (in all their incarnations of Medes/Persians, Parthians, Sassanids and now with Iran) to be one of the most dynamic ethnic groups in the history of the world. IMO, if Arab-supremacist Islam hadn't come along, there probably would've been a fairly unbroken line of Persian/Iranic dominance in the Middle East from 600BC until now. We may see it again.

[@SEKreiver]

@@fanjarwijaksono552 '"if you start labelling islam ONLY to Arabs, you better not coming to this comment section bro." Thanks for the advice--or was that an order? Is English your second language, bro? I ask, because somehow you misunderstood my sentence here: "Even among the Muslims, many of the outstanding figures were PERSIANS, not Arabs." How anyone fluent in English could misunderstand that is beyond me. I said that many outstanding MUSLIMS were PERSIANS. The main reason I pointed out the two ethnicities is that we have the term 'Arabic numerals'. Of course, Hindus invented them. However, the Persians appear to have been using them BEFORE they converted to Islam and BEFORE any Arabs even knew about them. What those numerals are NOT is 'Arabic'. Are there any other things I should or should not say, Fanjar? Asking for a friend. :-)

[@fahadbutt3611]

Actually Neil has a point, and I think it answers huge question in my mind. Why the culture of science didn't rise with the rise of Islam in ottoman empire. Even though ottomans did a pretty good job in science etc, but still, it was nowhere close to the golden age.

[@George-iv1hi]

Because islam is totally unscientific pagan cult that makes people brainless morons and keeps them dumb.

[@fahadbutt3611]

@@George-iv1hi because you are completely ignorant and moron person, You don't even deserve a dislike.

[@JRobbySh]

And one may ask why that culture did not arrive in China, an enormous;y wealthy society as described by Marco Polo.

[@ibatan7243]

@@JRobbySh Never mind China. It did not reach neither Egypt nor North Africa nor Mecca/Medina/Saudi Arabia nor Arabian Peninsula at all. It was concentrated in Iraq (mostly Bagdad and Mosul), major part of Persia (iran today), part of Syria, part of Lebanon and Israel. These zones were full of Christians, Jews, Assyrians and Persians who did all the work while the muslims were MOSTLY illiterate and couldn't write their own names. Most of their civilization was based on translating from the Greek, Persian, Assyrian, Egyptian (pharaonic) and Indian languages. Only in the XXth century when oil was discovered that they started to learn and made slow advances.

[@Alexi-Raener93]

@@ibatan7243 Interesting to know

[@geoden]

Couple of corrections to what Neil said. 1. The zero was an Indian invention, not an Arabic one. 2. The internet was invented by a British guy, Tim Berners-Lee by name. He did it while at CERN.

[@joegraphic1673]

Sorry, Tim Berners-Lee invented hypertext, the concept of documents that contain links to other documents, while at CERN. He also invented HTML (HyperText Markup Language, a page-description language) and HTTP (HyperText Transfer Protocol), which became the basis of the World Wide Web. He was about the third person to come up with a similar concept, but the first to produce a usable working version. He did this in the early 90's. The Internet, and its predecessor ARPAnet, had been up and running since 1969, more than 20 years before Berners-Lee developed HTTP. Because Internet use exploded in about 1995, when Graphic User Interface (GUI) operating systems and software were common, many people think the World Wide Web IS the Internet. But it's just one application layer protocol running on the Internet; the Internet itself was operational all through the 70's and 80's, running other protocols that are still in use today, such as FTP (File Transfer Protocol), SMTP (Simple Mail Transfer Protocol), POP (Post Office Protocol) and IMAP (Internet Mail Access Protocol). The Internet was developed in the US, first under a government contract starting in 1968 (ARPA is the Defense Department's Advanced Research Projects Administration), and first implemented in 1969 between four US universities with Defense Department research contracts. It spread rapidly through the US, and was soon connected to national networks in other countries that sprang up once the technology was standardized - first in England and Canada, then in western Europe, then throughout the world. The transport layer protocols TCP/IP (Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol) were developed in the 70's at Xerox's Palo Alto Research Center (Xerox PARC), where the Graphic User Interface was also invented. Many date the transition from ARPAnet to the Internet to the early 80's, when routers were configured to drop all packets in protocols other than TCP/IP. Nothing against Tim Berners-Lee, but saying he invented the Internet is almost as inaccurate as saying Al Gore did. It's a little like saying Henry Ford invented the road.

[@mamamarianovits9029]

Joe Graphic That is perhaps the most thourough explanation of the inception of the "internet" that I've read in the youtube comment section.

[@morpheusx2233]

@tDrauqRaM emmit mc henry another black man invented the domain name .. and gave the world .. dot com .. hello .

[@Medjurazzdiguetto]

@Morpheus x Jeez, what a racist ending. It wasnt the nigerian guy, chill out. Emeagwali received the !1989! (internet was about 20 years old already), Gordon Bell Prize for an application of the CM-2 massively-parallel computer. The application used computational fluid dynamics for oil-reservoir modeling. It was basicaly a model to acelerate the ratio of processing of floating point operation per second, the FLOATS. "STOP YOUR WHITE SUPREMACY FAIRYTALES" AHAHAHAHAHAHAH.. "SIMPLE RESEARCH WILL CONFIRM THIS" Ahahahah!!!!, I did it, and you are wrong!!! This is the kind of comment that makes withe people feel superior, thanks Morpheus x. And btw, let me expand your narrow brain: The first mechanical computer - Charles Babbage; First programmable computer - Konrad Zuse; First concepts of a modern computer - Alan Turing; First electric programmable computer- Tommy Flowers; First digital computer - John Vincent Atanasoff and graduate student Cliff Berry. AND I AM NOT PLAYING GAMES, there is no black man in thouse computers. So cut the racist shit, and the withe supermacy shit and get some true education or elucidation, so you can be the next big thng on PC!. Btw, im a proudly moreno! xD P.S.: Cut the caps lock writting, or get some glasses. xD

[@JRRodriguez-nu7po]

Wrong, Al Gore invented the internet. So says Al Gore.

[@4evaavfc]

I mourn all the beautiful cultures that Islam has erased. Look at the poor Copts in Egypt trying to preserve their culture under great pressure from Islam.

[@mohamedmahmod9016]

U r wrong Islam saved the copts when they entered egypt from the Romans and gave them the freedom of practicing there own religion, before Islam they were fugitives and subdued and jailed

[@alexanderchristopher6237]

@@mohamedmahmod9016 the Copts were basically Orthodox Christians, in the former Byzantine territory of Egypt, who were Eastern Orthodox. How were they persecuted is beyond me. Maybe by papal Rome Catholicism, but the Schism hasn't really happened yet. And plus, under the Dhimmi system, the Copts were treated as second class citizens, paying special tax for that "protection". That ain't tolerance, that is basically killing off any incentive for them to be Christians. That is persecution.

[@zool201975]

oh yes the towering gleaming cities made by the copts... oh wait they never did that.. what did the copts do to make them such an amazing culture? oh wait yes i know they burn witches... thats better then to shoot rockets into space right..

[@stasikapetanos1395]

@@alexanderchristopher6237 The Copts were Oriental Orthodox Christians not Eastern Orthodox like the Greeks, this looks like a silly distinction but did actually mean they were persecuted because unlike Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Christians they believe Jesus's divine and human nature are separate, I know this looks like a semantic distinction but nonthelss its true. ​ Moha Maho is right about this

[@nordinator89]

Everyone payed taxes Muslims Men and Women payed Zakat 2.5% of wealth. Dhimmis and only Men (and only who can join army) payed a fixed amount (sometimes les than Zakat) Muslim men had to join army in war, Dhimmis don't have to (there are stories that some of them joined muslim army then the Jiziya was returned to them) Even Muslims returned the Jiziya when they couldn't protect the land (Christians killed eatch others FYI). Read about the muslim spain and the golden age of Jews en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_Jewish_culture_in_Spain

[@MegaRazzzz]

The Hindu numerals and other discoveries which later were given Arabic names reached that place from India and China via trade routes and not by the conquest of these lands by Islamic forces as seems to be the common opinion in the comment section. There weren't any Muslim invasions of India during the period in question. ie., 800 - 1100 CE. These invasions actually happened much later in the 13th century.

[@vecchiogufo4863]

@Oliver Mayo Before muslim conquest nobody needs a " protection " law.

[@puppy3908]

@@vecchiogufo4863 It was common thing to do at the time i believe

[@vecchiogufo4863]

@@puppy3908 Yes, muslim conquerors were small in numbers, so they were " tolerant " to avoid bloody revolts.

[@jaguar-tr8bp]

the parsees in india, persians likely brought all this information

[@andi2658]

@Oliver Mayo they don't 'protect' them they're allowed to live as 2nd class citizen (especially the religious aspect of life), and has to pay jiyza and before you cherrypick a made-up, 'oh you know, jiyza is lower than muslims' the thing is its not. Its higher, and actually a major source of income for the muslim rulers that when many are converting to islam to AVOID paying jiyza, some of them are concerned as it depletes their income from this higher taxes of nonmuslims and those people convert to avoid it, does it make sense if 'people convert to avoid the lower tax'? no

[@judithwoodburn2353]

What a tragedy! Greatness suppressed, preventing generations of brilliant people from contributing to the scientific world.

[@worfoz]

inbred pagans usually are not that brilliant

[@davidpardo7878]

Once christian people did the same thing, stop altering the reality, im not muslim but be realistic cmon

[@bxdanny]

The Vatican didn't officially apologize for its treatment of Galileo until a few decades ago. And I'm not sure they had anything to do with the big bang theory. But certainly, they haven't stood in the way of science for a long time, while Muslim authorities continue to do so.

[@tasinal-hassan8268]

@@bxdanny Muslim authorities want good science.

[@Beamshipcaptain]

@@davidpardo7878 But Muslims still do it, in 2020, then have the audacity to say "Islam is the world's fastest growing religion".

[@Hasanesfeer]

It is as simple as this: All societies have their own contributions to science. The knowledge we have today is accumulative from the begging of time. Societies that experienced relative stability contributed more than others in their time. This is true to all parts of the world. I still think religion played negative role in the advancement of sciences but it is not the main reason. I think wars and instability and of course education are some of those reason. The reasons are many more.

[@henriconfucius5559]

European and american science prospered even more during wartime

[@craigjohnston3509]

Your statement is incorrect, the writing is on the wall..... or should i say lack of writing, we are now speaking of 800 years or so......

[@isaactuuri6488]

At times religion has promoted these discoveries, but agreed as a majority of time in power, they halt progress in many realms

[@allworldmusic8270]

In our time of the 20th and 21st centuries it is only the Democratic countries that have contributed to science and the advancement of Technology, Art and Music and that is because people are free to experiment and try something new. For me the ridiculous anti science movements in the US aligned with Trump is incredibly disturbing, modern computer technology was born and bred in the US and is one of the wonders of the 21st century.

[@FarSeeker8]

@@allworldmusic8270 What "anti science movements in the US aligned with Trump"?

[@mehstgful]

One correction. We call our numbers "Arabic", but we wouldn't recognize their numbers as used by Arabs today. Numbers actually originated in India (Hindi or Sanscrit?).

[@memesins5647]

It is Indian. Since Europeans got it from Arabs it’s called Arabic 😢.

[@memesins5647]

@user-yj4sx8io7s I am Muslim and Mathematics roots are in India

[@Rationalific]

I guess Neil didn't hear that "Arabic numerals" were taken from the Hindus of India (Edit: I just saw the ending of the video after writing this.), nor that Persians did many if not most of the "Arabic" science. (Nothing against Arabs - although I have something against Islam - but sorry, it's true.)

[@deathwatch1980]

thank your for that info, missing the point of the argument however. thanks how ever for the history

[@Struth86]

Rationalific or you are too worried about trying to one up someone smarter than you to realize that isn't the point of this

[@HelpfulGuy95]

Rationalific actually you are wrong, Persians didn't do most of the scientific work. I don't know why people keep saying that. Use goggle next time.

[@buushin337]

Good point. I would also add that Muslim of that period never took the credit, we all know it was Indian numerals, even the zero.

[@arfinyan]

You're right, but that's not the point.

[@victoryoneable]

Charlemagne was a great patron of learning. While he himself was illiterate, he made sure his descendants were not. Weinburg may be some kind of scientist but he should be careful about throwing around insults.

[@boliussa6051]

he was quoting "hitti", he seems to have bought into some arab propaganda..

[@kirk10p99]

From the wikipedia article "The Incoherence of the Incoherence" - "Al-Ghazali stated that one must be well versed in the ideas of the philosophers before setting out to refute their ideas. Al-Ghazali also stated that he did not have any problem with other branches of philosophy such as physics, logic, astronomy or mathematics. His only axe to grind was with metaphysics, in which he claimed that the philosophers did not use the same tools, namely logic, which they used for other sciences." If the above is accurate, does it seem likely that Al Ghazali was really against science? That bit about the fire and the cotton has to do with occasionalism vs independent cause and effect. Science is not capable of knowing the ultimate 1st cause. God is the ultimate cause of all things i.e. the absolute explanation, but that does not mean that relative explanations are incorrect - a fact pointed out by Averroes. Was the theological/ontological point that Al Ghazali made truly to blame for the decline of science Islamic in lands? As far as I'm aware, the consensus of Islamic scholarship was never against any sort against scientific inquiry at any time. But were Muslims nonetheless discouraged to any extent in pursuing such by Al Ghazali's explanation of occasionalism?

[@oussamaazoui8237]

I think that Tyson did not read a single book by Al-Ghazali, so if he had read, he would not have said this

[@worlddj1364]

Not Al ghazali as a person that discouraged Muslims. Actually al ghazalli is a despised scholar with lies when it comes to salafis for example. Salafis discourage ghazalli from even using philosophy or logic to prove anything. They are as feidist as they come. The major problem is when you look to the emergence of the Islamic golden age, you would see it was a mass Greek translation period of time under caliph mamoun who was a mutazili promoter. The non formal individualistic science movement was damaged by stopping of sponsorship from caliphs at times of war. And the less philosophers and logicians there is, the more enabling of fundamentalists and fundamentalism. It sure won't help when you know most of those scientists were claimed heretics and infidels too. So any rise in religious movements, they will be disregarded ultimately.

[@NadeemAhmed-nv2br]

@@worlddj1364 I'm pretty sure the decline had to do with the Mongols because if you look at China and Russia and pretty much all of the areas which were conquered by the Mongols oh, they went under similar decline and only the areas that weren't directly or indirectly affected by them AKA Western Europe were the ones that flourished

[@worlddj1364]

@@NadeemAhmed-nv2br Russia never was the same as the Islamic world though. Russia successfully engaged in the industrial revolution and that's probably why they dismantled the Balkan under ottomans so easy.. But don't get me wrong. The Mongols indeed did so much damage. But afterwards while other nations recovered, Islamic nations declined much much more, leading ultimately to the biggest colonial era in their times..sadly..

[@piotrwegrzyniak5798]

@@worlddj1364 You know but like Middle East was the cradle of civilization, the population of Baghdad from 13th centure was never achived up until 20th centure, so imagine what a blow that was. Also Russia never needed irrigation system while in Middle East Mongols at purpose destroyed irrigation systems kept there for centuries and they werent able to rebuild that

[@townsville69]

Id love to see Chappelle do a skit on deGrasse Tyson lol

[@cleander97]

None of those scientists were arabs. They were all Persians. Persia had already a great civilization before being invaded by Arabs and continued to have great minds, astronomers, mathematicians, alchemists, etc after the invasion. They were publishing their work in Arabic. Baghdad and part of Iraq were part of Persia back then. The origin of Islam, Saudi Arabia, never introduced any scientists to the world. Today, Iranians are making the same contributions through universities in western countries. There are always Iranian names among renowned professors from any science department in any reputable university or research institute in the west!

[@rishikeshp.5610]

There were Arabs too along with Persians. Please do your research.

[@Ardeshir8]

Hrishikesh Menon Oh please do tell me some of the really notable Arab scientists as well, or just 2, or just 1. I'll wait!! Yeah there were none! I suggest that YOU should do some research!! The ones not from Iran are mostly born in the occupied Spain of the time and even they (which can't really be identified as completely Arabs) were never as significant as the Iranian scientists! Nice try tho!

[@Ardeshir8]

Viva Freedom it's really sad how many in the world don't realize there is no such thing as Islamic science or philosophy but really Iranian Science and philosophy in disguise!

[@catherinerobilliard7662]

Iran is still the bastion of hope in the Islamic world

[@Ardeshir8]

Cath Robilliard we don't want anything to do with that Virus. We're done with Islam! Done for good!

[@Yatsevitch]

What is not mentioned here is that the cultural influence continued after the Muslim conquests and diminished to nothing within those three hundred years. Furthermore, not discussed, is that many of the "scientists" of that time adopted Muslim names in order to avoid dhimmitude. When the old culture had been entirely replaced by Islam, scientific enquiry and methodology effectively ceased.

[@moluther2826]

This is the most biased and desperate reading of history one could conceive of. You're hellbent on not giving Islam an inch. It's pathetic.

[@Ssookawai]

Except that most of these scientists were actually born from already muslim parents. They were also versed in religion, that made the struggle harder for the idiots who thought they can intimidate them with religion.

[@aoeu256]

Many of the Muslims of the golden age weren't Muslim, and and early Islam did not allow people to convert to Islam because they would then pay the 20% Zakat instead of the 30% Jizzaya, so early Muslims didn't want people to convert is Islam. When the non-rationalist versions of Islam began dominating, the amount of science output completely vanished.

[@joecool9739]

What isnt discussed is that the "Islamic Golden Age" really has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with conquest and taking the knowledge of Mediterranean and Middle Eastern nations like Rome, Egypt and Persia What was actually born out of Islam itself? Nothing

[@clarkporter1340]

@@Ssookawai exactly, dia parents were forced at d sword into Islam.

[@cmvamerica9011]

There has only been a few geniuses in history who have made the important discoveries. The rest of us including Neil are just enjoying those discoveries..

[@tarkalak]

As Einstein said, I am high, because I stand on the shoulders of giants. Science is slow and is the product of many, many people. The ones that are visible are few, flashy personas. Einsteins work is based on tons of mathematicians an physicist nobody knows about. The same applies to every other "genius".

[@paulomannheim]

@@tarkalak I think who actually said that was Newton. He was mocking an adversary, Hook, who happened to be short.

[@aoeu256]

Nah, a lot of the discoveries came from a lot of pre-liminary work and reshipping of ideas of the non-geniuses as well; its just that geniuses are good at repackaging and explaining them. For example, Darwin's theory of evolution was preceded by his own grandfather talking about common decent for all life in his book zootopia, animal breeders, natural selection going back to greek and roman times. Einstein's e=mc^2 was written as e=kmc^2 by different scientists until Einstein talked about it, his special relativity was talked about by Lorentz & Poincare, Newton talked about light being a different form of matter that could stack and occupy the same space which came from Hericlites who believed that matter was just fire(plasma) pulsating at a certain rythm.

[@Menmatters]

Arabic words pre-date Islam. Many of the regions that are currently Islam were not so in olden times.

[@prismaticbeetle3194]

islam is not a fucking race so good point

[@Limpass610]

Tarek Chamas what's your fcking point. you say the same fcking thing on a lot of comment. pls elaborate

[@AnasDaif]

And ? What's your point ? XD

[@JRobbySh]

I think it is said that the language appeared on the fringes of the Roman Empire. That the first Muslims originated from there rather than in the Mecca-Medina region.

[@SunRabbit]

What Neil DeGrasse Tyson says about the Jews is true. They have a vibrant intellectual tradition independent of their religion, and we should all be looking at what makes them tick, and then doing more of what they're doing.

[@NocturnalJin]

Don't forget the thousand years of crusades, empires, and western-backed despots. Permanent turmoil would affect anyone's ability to evolve.

[@chrisgibson5267]

I'd simply ask how can thousands of years of Crusades take place in the 1,400 or so years of Islam. The Crusades include episodes of vicious brutality and many of these took place in Europe. The brutality of the Islamic or Arab conquests and their often genocidal nature is well documented. So what we think of as The Crusades in the East were attempts to regain land lost. They took place between 1096 and 1291. How many battles and sieges were fought in the Crusades in the East? ( do we ignore the Crusades against Pagans and "heretics" in Europe? ). In contrast, scholars identity 548 battles of conquest fought by Islam against what we think of as the Classical Greek/ Roman civilisations. There were about 200 battles in Spain alone and a Muslim chronicler referred to this conquest as a judgement day or the end of the world ( depends on the translation). Then there are the battles in Africa, the Indian subcontinent and places like Afghanistan ( which was Buddhist). It's well worth looking up how the Hindu Kush got it's name. We have Tamerlane who was a Shia Muslim who considered Genghis Khan his role model and killed around 14% of the world's population. Then we have the Ottoman Turks conquest of the Balkans and their repeated efforts to take Austria. It's estimated they returned home with 80,000 slaves after their last attempt to take Vienna. Then add in the slavery in Africa, India, Asia and Europe. This is a brief overview and all of the information is here online.

[@dustin3596]

the cusades started when the ottomans attacked the byzantine empire. It was completely their fault.

[@NocturnalJin]

The blame game will get you nowhere. You're just continuing the same battle but with words instead of weapons. Try compassion and understanding.

[@ncooty]

@9:06 Arabic numerals come from India. Europeans called them Arabic because they arrived in Europe via the Arab world. NDT too often talks in ignorance, more concerned with how he sounds than with accuracy.

[@konkoni4]

ncooty no the original Indian numerals are used by the Arabs now, what you are using in English are the Arabic numerals. They are similar but not the same.

[@oneman7638]

True but its not like the Europeans didn;'t have their own numbering systems. Romans had Roman numerals which worked just as well as modern numbers we use today. It was still a numbering system.

[@SterbenCyrodill]

He is correct later on the video though,

[@mig-stallion1359]

Filip Cristian . Shut up fool. Then why didn’t they change them to better Arabic numerals

[@agginmariajames]

you r right..I was irritated to see how people can be so ignorant while speaking in-front of so many people.

[@Shrie]

9:15 arabic numerals is actully indian numbers. discovery of zero happened in india.

[@HopDavid]

That is just one of many demonstrably false claims Neil dropped on that stage. It discredits the "skeptic" community that they hold this sloppy scholar and bull shitter in such high esteem.

[@HopDavid]

@richard kaye One error of many is pointed out. Not only did Tyson falsely credit the Arabs with our numbering system, he falsely accused President Bush of giving a divisive speech in the wake of 9-11 and he falsely accused Hamid Ghazali of demonizing math. See hopsblog-hop.blogspot.com/2016/01/fact-checking-neil-degrasse-tyson.html What is hilarious is that he told these stories repeatedly year after year to large audiences of self proclaimed skeptics. People who are constantly bragging about their ability to detect bull shit.

[@singhveer2295]

Zero is what India is and nothing else. No one and I mean no one want to migrate to India coz it's considered a shit third world zero country who still consider Cow as a God or their mother.

[@OokamiKageGinGetsu]

I don't think Zero was simply discovered. It's a concept, I think people understood the concept of nothing before then. But since it wasn't a positive in numerical counting, they probably didn't equate it with the same concept of numerical counting. The Hindi numerical system was simply the first to recognize nothing as a numerical value and invent a symbol for it.

[@kitemanmusic]

Muslims didn't discover nothing! (double negative?Lol)

[@larryscott2548]

Technology improves the comfort level of peoples lives. Science makes people makes people question religion. Religion props up the ruling class. To learn the scientific method makes you ask questions those in power don't want you asking.

[@ocean9897]

Atheism pushes society towards nihilism, nationalism, racism, gender confusion, substance abuse and general moral degradation.

[@lauriemitz7131]

This is a very timely talk here in 2023 where you have a political party actively trying to dismantle education. If we ignore or rewrite history, we are doomed to replay the mistakes of the past. That is a disturbing and terrifying situation.

[@mmarsh6108]

"some scientists were hostile to relgion, some were not religious and some were quite religious" sounds like a better model than religion since these scientists did not want to behead each other.

[@willpower7700]

Apostasy isnt punishable by death.

[@gelipterzg]

just a sidenote, a muslim nobel prize winner was jaser arafat who got the nobel peace prize, and he wasn't pakistani but palestinian. also arabic numerals are also called indian numeals, because they originated in india and got their way into the west via arabs.

[@SpitshineSneakers]

Oh this is the clip where Tyson propagated the "our God is the God who named the stars" myth.

[@dhead64]

SpitshineSneakers I'm confused - what exactly is the myth? Did President Bush not say that, or that the arabic names are false?

[@SpitshineSneakers]

1. Bush never said those specific words, the actual quote is "The same Creator who names the stars also knows the names of the seven souls we mourn today." 2. It wasn't even in reference to 9/11, it was the 2003 space shuttle disaster. Source: thefederalist.com/2014/09/16/another-day-another-quote-fabricated-by-neil-degrasse-tyson/

[@niniv2706]

Thank you for the trivial input ... But Mr Tyson did nail it for Ghazali and the influence he had on islam, the only point he was making . Again thank you for addressing prob B .

[@SpitshineSneakers]

I'm aware that what I said was off-topic, I was simply stating that I had heard about this clip before for an entirely different reason, but hadn't seen it until now.

[@dhead64]

SpitshineSneakers I appreciate the info. Non-infowars info is always refreshing in today's climate of constant butthurt.

[@DejectedCat]

And if we're not careful, we could do the exact same thing.

[@knicklas48]

When I hear Tyson talking religion I automatically disbelieve whatever he says.

[@ofthecaribbean]

He is not taking about Religion. He is taking about a specific part of history that was brought to an end by religion

[@molenini]

He did not read Gazzali's works so he is blatantly lying. Read one of his books named "munqiz min ed dalal". He basically divided philosphy into 6 articles: 1. Maths, 2. Logic, 3. Knowledge of Nature (I think physics), 4. Teology, 5. Politics, 6. Morality. He fully agreed with maths, logic and politics and partially rejected theory of morality and physics (rightfully so if you know what that's about in that time) and he rejected majority of the teology.

[@zekepiestrup3835]

Cognitive dissonance is a bitch. Relevant to your thinking: It is easier to continue to be deceived than to admit to self-deception.

[@peakjvs4967]

@@ofthecaribbean 95% of all scientific discoveries are made by religious people? Stop misleading people with your lies.

[@RhubarbPiArt]

Sorry, as a physicist myself i hope we can all be more precise; can we please distinguish between Belief, Organized Religion, and Culture/Civilization? I think this is especially important in Islam. While in the Western/European Culture, the decrees of the church (Organized religion) has authority. In Islam this is not the case; when a sheikh says anything and it isn't backed by the Quran, or mentioned in a strong a-hadith (if and only if there is no mention of the subject in the Quran) it has the authority of your neighborhood grandpa giving advise. I think Mr. Tyson was trying to raise this point as well, the rise and fall of scientific progress during the time was Arab/Persian, not "Islamic" The one issue I believe is that the image is captioned "Imam" al-Ghazali. Nobody can blame Mr. Tyson for not knowing but an imam is the person who, when we pray with more than one person, leads the prayer. This is not the same as a priest/pastor ordained by a church under clerical authority, if it was me and say a new convert praying for instance, then that responsibility would fall upon me to be "imam", even though my knowledge is abysmal. As Mr. Tyson correctly mentioned, he is a scholar. And as in any culture, there are always scholars whatever their religion is, who goes off the trail, I mean we even have them now right? just that we call them global warming deniers or what not. Islam itself had nothing to do with this very odd philosophy especially when there is no quote in Quran or hadith that says anything about the demonic nature of numbers themselves. I'm not even sure if this one scholar was the key to this philosophy since I see many cultures designate symbolic meaning to numbers, like the unlucky 13 for one. In fact, the first revelation that came to Prophet muhammad (salAllahu alayhi wa sallum) was surat-Alaq that starts with the command "IKRA" or "Read!". Furthermore there are many quotes of the Quran that others would know better than me (Wa Allahu aalum), where the Quran challenges us to truly read, question, and challenge the Quran to find discrepancies and inconsistencies, until one is satisfied. If anything, as a physicist myself, the way these verses speaks to me personally is that my religion is telling me to open my eyes, do not be distracted by lust, intoxication and worldly greed, observe the world and yourself as it is, because the world is full of wonderful mysteries. You yourself is full of mysteries, and seeking knowledge of our world and self is a full time job of a lifetime! I truly love my Deen, my religion because it fully supports people like Mr. Tyson and me, scientists who just want to know more about our beautiful world, SubhanAllah! Thank you! jazakallah khairan!

[@faroukhussein5394]

Jazzaku Allahu khairan brother

[@illiteratefilipino2073]

Taqqiya at its finest .

[@wm9217]

cure your religiosity first! It is an illness.

[@francoistombe]

The so-called climate deniers that I know are the scientists that are not being led astray by junk science superstitions. They are the people I know with the most basic and comprehensive grasp of physics.

[@uhura647]

You are saying that Quran challenges us to truly read, question, and challenge the Quran to find discrepancies and inconsistencies, until one is satisfied. If that is the case ,why was fatwa issued against Salman Rushdie ? Why is a christian lady named Asiya Bi being persecuted for "insulting islam "in Pakistan ? You talk about islamic golden age which existed about 1000 years ago , can you name one famous arab scientist who was born in last 200 years ?

[@therorus3727]

Somehow, it makes me laugh that Middle Eastern Muslim culture has warmly accepted tv, cars, computers etc, but still demands that music is haram......

[@khalidq8245]

there is only one school that music is haram, and that it Wahabism created by Mohammed Bin Abd Al_ Wahab in 1911 in the beginning of the first Saudi country, it is the commen school in the world; which means every new muslim is a Wahabi. ANDIt is the only school that render music prohibited.

[@AnasDaif]

It doesn't You could find millions of Arab and Muslim songs in middle East Don't generalize Saudi Arabia to the whole middle East

[@faithfulsoldier519]

Realmatic Schisms - Yes it is.

[@matiolamahammedi3235]

Why are you comparing cars to music? Music is nothing new cars and tvs are

[@read89simo]

Quite an ignorant comment

[@rake483]

so many expert historians in the comment section :O

[@joshualance6005]

The Golden age of Islam was when they adopted Greek culture and went away from Islam

[@henke518]

Yeah, the golden age of Islam happened before the population in the middle east was even majority muslim.

[@libyanloyal7932]

😂😂good joke it’s like you say North Korea adopted American culture

[@jasonlee8156]

@libyan loyal Your comment doesn't make any sense and it doesn't hide the fact that the above statement is true.

[@jasonlee8156]

@henke518 The golden age of Europe came about for the same reason. Caused by more intellectual and scientific progress that was mainly possible due to the weakening influence of christianity. Starting with the renaissance all the way through the enlightenment and beyond.

[@Ryan-kb8ui]

Benny lol that's what they're trying to do today, and what guns do they use to conquer? They use other people's technology to destroy them, ugh the shit is crazy

[@ultrademigod]

The greatest invention of Islam is the myth of an Islamic Golden age.

[@somerandomvertebrate9262]

Actually, even that myth was pretty much invented by European scholars and intellectuals in the late 19th and early 20th century - a time when the Middle East was shrouded in the romantics of "Orientalism" and Islam wasn't considered a threat to anyone or anything, not least among themselves.

[@asadulhaq6689]

@@somerandomvertebrate9262 But we should all forget Algebra, frequency analysis and surgery.

[@somerandomvertebrate9262]

​@@asadulhaq6689 No we shouldn't, but how much does 11th century surgery impact the healthcare procedures of today? There was a Muslim "golden age" to some extent - a thousand years ago - but like already stated, mostly among Persians (who were Aryans and carriers of an ancient civilization of their own) and half of that derived from Antiquity in any case. Above all, the "golden age" existed despite Islam, not thanks to it! As soon as Islamic litteralism was back in vogue - around the time of the crusades - it killed off that quasi-pagan phenomenon known as the "golden age", never to return.

[@asadulhaq6689]

@@somerandomvertebrate9262 You make good points. Let's proceed with the argument. 1. "but how much does 11th century surgery impact the healthcare procedures of today?" Not much. I agree. But are the modern procedures not perfected upon those of those olden days? 2. "...and half of that derived from Antiquity in any case." As if the science today is not derived from that introduced by previous civilizations. All advancement is based upon previous advancement. All golden ages are derived from their relative antiquities. These statements are self-evident, if not axiomatic. Case in point: Lookup the legacy of Al-Zahrawi the Surgeon, who wasn't Persian by the way. 3. "Above all, the "golden age" existed despite Islam, not thanks to it!" This is an excellent point. It couldn't have been the knowledge of scriptures that inspired the men (mostly) of that age and time to bring about any advancement of reason, civilization and science. Most were just practical folks finding practical solutions to real world problems. Also, an enormous number of these guys were Persians, not Arabs. Iqbal puts it this way, "Islam found in Persia what Rome found in Greece: Culture." So perhaps we shouldn't call it the Islamic Golden Age. Perhaps we should call it the Persian/middle-eastern golden age. The only reason it seems to be called the Islamic golden age is because it happened in a place where the predominant religion was Islam, and because most of the men that brought it about were Muslims (many devout, many other indifferent). But this is where I have an unanswered question: Where are all the pre-Islamic non-muslim scientists, philosophers and mathematicians of Persia? Why are they so few in number despite the rich contact of Persia with the West in pre-Islamic world? And here is my personal take on it: The Islamic Caliphs (at least Abbasids and Andalusians) brought internal peace and later, placed an emphasis on acquisition of knowledge. A strong intellectual tradition can not flourish if it is not valued in the society (take the renaissance, modern and post modern Europe for instance). After the quick expansions in East and West, the Muslim empires did not have many enemies. In those times of relative internal peace, prosperity and wealth, the 'houses of knowledge' in Bukhara, Constantinople, Baghdad and Andalusia attracted men who excelled in jurisprudence (highly sought after), medicine, science, knowledge of ancient Greeks and mathematics. (Persians back then seem to be the smart Asian Kids of those times, many still are today). This is what Islam did: 'pave the way' for these guys. It united and brought them under a greater system that rewarded and allowed for such intellectual advancements. Fact of the matter is: Yes, there was a time when our adversaries today were more advanced than us. Yes, in one way or the other, Islam was to blame for it. 4. "As soon as Islamic literalism was back in vogue - around the time of the crusades - it killed off that quasi-pagan phenomenon known as the "golden age", never to return." If you watched the video, you should be acquainted with the name of Ghazali. He is the man who is thought to have "stymied the corruption of philosophy" in Islamic World. He was Persian. This one man is a very complex topic. Though his teachings did have an impact of de-emphasizing philosophy in his time, it was because his reason was too meticulous to be countered well by the knowledgeable (no kidding) and too susceptible to generalization to be not accepted and used by masses. But he could only have ended the Golden Age as much as Islam had started it. After all, there were men who made important contributions even after Ghazali's time. (By the way, this guy was born in mid 11th century, and primarily against metaphysics. 2 centuries before him, there were people like Al-Kindi who made landmark contributions in a time when Islamic literalism was really in vogue.) The major reason for the steady decline was war. Not crusades, since they were never waged near the knowledge capitals. But the Mongolian Invasion. After the invasions, the Persian and Turkic Kingdoms of Islamic World stayed at wars with each other as late as the arrival of British East India company. And the rest is history. The "Islamic literalism back in vogue" isn't a really good argument. Al-Khwarizmi (a Persian) introduced Algebra. Its killer application was to efficiently solve the problem of Inheritance in Shariyah Law. The spherical geometry was developed to figure out the direction of Ka'ba (that black cuboid that Muslims face while praying) from different locations. Moreover, if I remember correctly it was Khwarizmi's book on Algebra that began with elaborate adulation of Allah (maybe it was a trend back then).

[@leeali4096]

Funk Cult, butthurt much?

[@osmanyousaf7866]

02:20 "Islamic depression for the lost of Spain"? And you choose to construct that, where the destruction of Baghdad by the Mongols would have been more coherent?!

[@thomasjhenniganw]

Charlemagne may not have been able to read or write, but he got together some of the best brains of the day to help him bring about the renaissance of the day led by Alcuin of York. Charlemagne, it is said, had parts of St. Augustine's City of God read to him daily, which is not an easy book.

[@DavidJJames]

Don't forget Genghis Khan and his Mongols. If not for them, we might have been less fortunate.

[@itamarcaetanodejesus]

Everyone forgets about this. Hulagu Khan destroyed Baghdad and the Abassid Caliphate. That event was for the arab world like the fall of Rome was for Europe, but even worse, since the mongolians were far more brutal than the germanic tribes.

[@energy2048]

@@itamarcaetanodejesus The mongols destroyed the muslims and their works. And after that, they accepted islam i read.

[@alibumaye5155]

@vial.of.photons they did become Muslim and settled in central Asia the "khan" countries all the way to Turkey.

[@akifnobody318]

World's greatest scientists, religious experts, historians and artists reside in the KZbin comment section.

[@creativeyardpostsign2083]

@Akif Awakened, you are absolutely correct, and I am going to attest to it by my own expertise, and I will challenge any western scientist or any PHD to show me if they can meet the amount of reading I done in 30 year Just when computer technology came about to consumers, here I go, please world, google how many printed pages in 230 GB, a come forth with your BS and let see whose BS is going to stink, you may have a piece of paper that notes you have a PHD or Your call yourself a Scientist.....

[@worfoz]

@@creativeyardpostsign2083 If science was a reading contest, you would be our hero.

[@creativeyardpostsign2083]

@@worfoz , I am taking your comment as a sarcastic One. I do not like scientist who want to prove ALLAH wrong period. I consider scientist who study and research intangible matter philosophers and look what some scientist did, they came up and fabricated so many unnatural diseases and scientist killed more people than you can imagine, and in actuality science is reading contest, scientist read other people findings so they can either copy cat, approve or disapprove :) Lat but not least, show me what scientist invented my friend, "Human Have Yet To Invent a Darn Thing" and They Will Never Be able to invent shit, they all copycat what has already been created by the creator, and remember that the Creator taught Adam "L-ASMAA-E-KULLAHAA" everything :) by the way, what happened to Voyager 1?

[@worfoz]

​@@creativeyardpostsign2083 I do not like scientist who want to prove ALLAH wrong period. I know, but do YOU know what science is and what we do? alla as the creator of everything, they proved that to be a lie even alla as the creator of earth is exposed by scientists as a myth Adam and Eve, nice Sumerians stories from the bible but wrong as well. We scientists do not worship your alla, we seek the kind of knowledge that serves mankind. Like how to upgrade your machine, how to create better ones, how to improve their safety, all kinds of knowledge you´ll never find in your quran. so your accusations about scientists being mass murderers only proves how paranoid, hostile, arrogant and ignorant you are about science why do you use this scientific creation internet, I asked you. Your answer? Because you hate it. so much hatred....

[@worfoz]

@@creativeyardpostsign2083 respect the people who created your internet or stop musing it

[@LudvigIndestrucable]

Love the bit of Ramachandran at the end, if only all Indians could have such a deliciously sonorous voice, we'd hate call centres much less

[@Huang_Teh.]

Call centres are not only from india .

[@4cymusic785]

I have worked in call centres, to put myself thru college. If I had a sweet sonorous voice, I'd have sang on the streets and begged instead of taking shit from racist af americans 6hrs a day.

[@ofdiscordia]

Baghdad was the intellectual and scientific capital of the world. It takes a moment for that to sink in when you look at it today. For future generations: make sure you feed the right wolf.

[@residental4331]

Deep and sad.

[@DanGibsonFilms]

Sorry, I disagree with Neil deGrasse Tyson on his claiming that the star names go back to Baghdad. The Arabic star names go back much further than this. They are mentioned in pre-Islamic poetry. The star names go back to the first Arab merchants who discovered ways to navigate by the stars while taking their camel caravans across the deserts of Arabia and the Near East. Baghdad was important, as it allowed the introduction of thought from Greek and Hindi worlds to mix with the Arabs, and move thinking forward.

[@Grey000]

Everyone destroys their own golden age.

[@alexg3348]

True the Indians came up with the numerals we use in the west today.

[@axyxb]

Nope arab did it and islamophobic ppl trying to change it

[@PalashaGabarra]

I actually like Niel Degrasse Tyson, and I think he's right more often than not, but when he talks about Islam or the "Islamic golden age" a lot of the things he says tend to either be partial truths with key elements conveniently left out or just utter falsehoods.

[@shakur4648]

The Bringer of Salt yeah.

[@HopDavid]

In this instance you recognize Tyson's errors because you have some familiarity with the subject. Most people will not. His smooth, confident voice is very convincing and they are lulled into believing Tyson's fictions are fact. His very inaccurate history on the Islamic Golden Age is not an anomaly. The above video also contains Tyson's account of Bush's 9-11 speech. Did you know that story is also a complete fiction? Bush's actual 9-11 speech was a call for tolerance and inclusion. It was delivered from a mosque. Sean Davis blew the whistle on Tyson's Bush and Star Names story in 2014 and after a great deal of publicity Tyson was forced to admit his error and apologized to Bush. Most of Tyson's stories on Newton are also addled nonsense. As well as his claims on Copernicus. As a general rule of thumb when Tyson's criticizing religion he is usually using invented history. Tyson is also a source of misinformation when it comes to math and physics.

[@musiclover9361]

@@HopDavid, LOL!

[@HopDavid]

@@musiclover9361 It's interesting that Tyson often delivered his fictions to large audiences of self proclaimed skeptics. Beyond Belief, TAM6 were two of them. Year after year after year. Did Dawkins notice? Nope. Neither did Shermer, Krauss, Harris, Novella, or James Randi. Not a peep from any of these "skeptics". Well, that's not completely true. Novella objected to Tyson's schtick on idiot doctors, correctly noting that Tyson was clueless how a prognosis was actually delivered. But none of them objected to Tyson's Bush and Star Names fiction. Or his false histories regarding Newton and Ghazali. Skeptics, my ass. Just like most people they will swallow bull shit if it seems to support their favorite prejudices. Tyson likes to say scientific literacy empowers you to know when someone is full of shit. And here we have the spectacle of Tyson leaving shit stains on the bibs of the Who's Who list of celebrity New Atheists.

[@musiclover9361]

@@HopDavid, I have no idea what 'New Atheists (sic)' are, unless 'New' is intended to denote 'vocal'. Tyson is not wrong about star-naming or al-Ghazali.

[@abekelly9935]

Zero was invented by the Babylonians, Myans and the Indians... all independently.

[@hinduhistory1407]

True that my Sir!!

[@Sinsteel]

I bet the Sumerians too, they did quite a lot of administration related mathematics, managing trade, warehouses, goods, on a massive scale etc, as did Egyptian scribes. Any culture who does a lot of mathematics finds reason to invent a zero, imho.

[@sammysame]

ANd you would know how, MAGAT

[@worfoz]

@JSavic Ancient Babylonian Number System Had No Zero blogs.scientificamerican.com/roots-of-unity/ancient-babylonian-number-system-had-no-zero/ as far as I know they had not

[@salsYThandle]

It's seems like you have hatred towards Arabs.

[@erdenee1258]

As a Mongolian I feel relieved that it was the muslims themselves and not our "brief" war in the region.

[@smartjoe5258]

You guys burnt the shit out of Baghdad ( The most Important city in the middle east at that time) . You destroyed its libraries and places of knowledge. The Tigris literally turned black due to the tremendous amount of ink-written books you guys threw in it.

[@hendrikdependrik1891]

You guys sacked it a few centuries too early. If you did it just past 1439, many literature would have been saved because of the efficient book printing invented by the German Gutenberg.

[@abdulwasi4486]

What an ignorant fool

[@erdenee1258]

@@abdulwasi4486 haha but ze amerikan said sooo...

[@islamapologetics1019]

I think that the mongols creating one of the worst genocides in history kind of helped in the decline

[@Gaur1983]

Would it be safe to say that Algebra- or at least the familiar form of algebra that is taught in high schools-was a medieval Islamic innovation? I believe it arose out of Islamic scholars,using the tools of Greek Aristotelian logic,to understand,clarify,generalise and develop the theoretical structures laid out in the Indian mathematical treatises (written on palm-leaf and composed in Sanskrit language verse),on numbers ,number theory and calculation.

[@ismaelvelasquez5181]

It was created originally by Hindi, then muslims copied it

[@latarzanla]

With the same logic all scientific discoveries would be colored by the particular religion of the area where they were made. We don't say Dodekatheistic Aristotelian Mathematics, or Christian Laws Of Motion

[@LifeIsThePrayer]

When you say algebra by stressing the “GE” syllable and roll the r slightly it definitely sounds like an Arabic word.

[@imkluu]

Ok, Am I wrong to think that, the US did invent the Internet? I know England and France were a part of it but most of the financing, the head inventors involved as well as the first ever message sent was in the US. also, even tho, the aRabs may have codified or brought Algebra into some kindo fspelcific area of math, this type of math was being used as far back as 1500 BC in Babylon. They did not invent Algebra. At most he wrote up what was being done into a book and named it but did not invent it. As for ARabic numverals, thisis jsut soemthing that the Arbs under Islam stole. They come from the hundu brahma numerals as does the invention of he zero and a decimal based math. I do not thin Tyson knows much of anlything about history or archeology and probably just read soem Islam propaganda before doing this debate.

[@thebatman6201]

And under this same reasoning i remove all credit from europeans and white people in general.. keep your outrage consistent

[@humanproxy5162]

Fspelcific.... even I think this horrible spelling, and I'm dyslexic.

[@FRISHR]

We are all human beings, we shouldn't fight each other.

[@chi-8289]

Al Jaber who wrote Algebra had mentioned himself that he had travelled to South India and that's where he got most of his insights discussing with local mathematicians especially in Kerala. Arabic numerals' were not invented by Arabs. How can such a great scientist like Neil deGrasse can go so wrong. This is called 'confirmation' bias.some ideas you have been taught since childhood and you never dare to question it, so you go on finding facts validating those ideas. Without willing to dig deeper or further into history or beyond that point. Sky was completely mapped in ancient India long before Arabs or Greeks. In Hindu puranas, it's mentioned where are the locations of stars and constellations and how the sky looked 15000 years ago(for eg, Abhijit (Vega)is the pole star before 15000 years). Again Neil deGrasse Tyson is wrong in his assessment that those who invent or discover first get to name them. Most of Arabs discoveries were stolen from India during their invasions(invading Kings got many scholars along to transfer knowledge) and since Arabs were closer to Europeans, they thought most of these come from Arabs. Expected better from Mr.Tyson

[@HopDavid]

Tyson is not a great scientist. This pop science celebrity is an addled buffoon.

[@BloodofPatriots]

4m54s: Um, Neil, the Internet was invented here. It was called ARPANET and it went online in 1969, using packet switching to link two computers over a distance to send the first message.

[@dsbeerf]

BloodofPatriots LMFAO I was scrolling through these comments, going to make the comment You made. ODD that only two people, out of the +1K comments noticed his mistake. Kahn & Cerf made it all possible. ;^)

[@bogdan78pop]

This is 10 years old ....keep that in mind..!

[@Maxamos555]

If you really want to know the value of something look at what the world would be like with out it.

[@charlesc.mcdonald4545]

PragerU ads have been following me everywhere.

[@Indusxstan]

this black professor is incorrect. Arabic numerals are Indian in origin. They merely took it and passed it on.

[@thebatman6201]

Weird.. almost like what white people did with literally everything ever... huh.. Its almost like you only see what fits into your bias... also weird

[@williamcooke21]

I Am sure he knows that already. Thanks for the info.

[@AwakenedSouls]

the moment science and critical thinking starts , it's the moment religios dogma ends. they can never go together even if there was a god, which i call life, it ain't nothing to do with religious doctrine.

[@steveweatherbe]

Manifestly untrue ( and therefore unscientific). See IsaacNewton: he believed his scientific theories came from God, as did the natural laws he discovered.His rediscovered journals indicate he was as interested in Biblical prophecy as Physics.

[@AwakenedSouls]

Steve Weatherbe from god , not from religion god, god and doctrine are 2 different things, one is energy& life, the second is man made

[@steveweatherbe]

@@AwakenedSouls Thanks for responding. You havent addressed my point, which is the well known argument that Christian bekief in a rational God made modern science possible. Please read this blog entry to get an expert explanation of an idea contrary to your belief.blogs.nature.com/soapboxscience/2011/05/18/science-owes-much-to-both-christianity-and-the-middle-ages

[@AwakenedSouls]

Steve Weatherbe im answering your question, god is condemned so much as a word because of religious doctrine, we know everything is designed and we part of that design and creation, but that has got nothing to do with religious beliefs

[@peakjvs4967]

@@AwakenedSouls 95% of all scientific discoveries are made by religious people? Have you completed primary school or are you just opening your mouth because you have a mouth?

[@draugami]

There is an error at 5:30. The Greek and Romans were not the best at astronomy. The Babylonians and Persians were. The point to consider is that astronomy developed independently in India, China, Babylon, Mexico. (the Mayans) and a few other places. But the constellations are the same. In other words, the patterns chosen in the night sky were the same. The names were the same too. I.e. Virgo means Virgin. That group of stars called The Virgin is called the Virgin in each astronomical map from various cultures. These predate the Greeks and Romans by centuries our millennia.

[@SanatanMandirSamaj]

800 to 1100 AD - Islam had reached India and lots of the works were "translated" and spread to the West. Offcourse Indians are not the One to make such a claim - Iran Irag [Mesopotamia ] Greece Turkey maybe half a dozen more Nations make such claims - BUT India still has the ORIGINAL Texts 1500 to 2500 years old to back. Rest of the claims are just stories by countries to uppe there narrative.

[@social-mathematics]

We must mention that Pakistan and Bangladesh are the parts of India that Islam Destroyed their Identity and Culture.

[@social-mathematics]

Turkey does not make any claim about the Greek Mathematics. Don't worry. I agree with you but I must mention that Indian "Mathematics" are not real Mathematics because real Mathematics require Mathematical Proof like The Elements of Euclid. Also there are original parts of the Greek Mathematics like this one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyrhynchus_Papyri#/media/File:P._Oxy._I_29.jpg But we must focus and realise that the Enemy of Humanity is Islam.

[@social-mathematics]

@@mohammadakhtar777 This is a Huge Duty for Modern Muslims and a Shame too.

[@steveweatherbe]

You sound pretty upset Mr. Vimes,over a mere theory. I say it is both a theory about the development of life and a belief with important consequences, social darwinism being one.

[@steveweatherbe]

@@mohammadakhtar777 All of which just raises the question: why did Islamic countries fall so very far behind.

[@Pantherblack]

Starting to see unsettling parallels in the western world today. But what always fascinates and confuses me is how fundamentalists are raised and manage to gain prominence in spite of these eras of advancement.

[@HopDavid]

Tyson looks fondly back on the 50s and 60s when U.S. was blazing new trails in technology and science. And then blames rising religious belief for our decline. Which is stupid, of course. A larger percentage of people believed and went to church in the 50s and 60s. More people today are atheist or agnostic. Fewer people attend a church, synogogue or mosque. What fascinates and confuses me is how folks like yourself are able blame present decline on rising religiosity. Truly 'Murica is sliding down hill.

[@sandal_thong8631]

Yeah Steve, the difference between a barbarian and a fundamentalist is that the barbarian reads no books, the fundamentalist reads only 1.

[@TheStonewall117]

Lmfao What year do you mentally live in? It’s 2022, not 1950. I genuinely don’t know of any “fundamentalist” that’s gaining any traction, much less renown in the US.

[@sureshmaru4559]

Zero was invented in INDIA . The words algebra and geometry are also taken from Sanskrit not " arabics"

[@user-th1fq8lx8g]

Well Al gibra comes specifically from Arabic. But thrikona matra and trigonometry sound pretty similar.

[@sureshmaru4559]

Doesn't matter who invented it but who uses it wisely in modern day :D .

[@kenkhan678]

@l3054 It is obvious the islamic people contributed noth positive to the world.

[@younglord7805]

Suresh Maru Al Jabr is an Arabic word. But I admit 0 zero is Indian word. Al Jabr was created by Al Khwarezmi (non - arab but a Muslim) scientist.

[@BilalAhmed-jn9qk]

Not right, algebra, as name suggests, is from Arabs. Geometry? Not sure.

[@celtman58]

But Saint Bernard did not have equivalent effect on the Latin West-though not from lack of trying- so how come Ghazahli's obscurantism took hold. after all Texan creationists have not managed to stifle biotechnology in the US despite their negative effect on high school biology education.

[@Thoughtflux]

What BS! Arabic traders picked up the decimal system, medical science etc from ancient India. Ancient India invented the zero and the decimal system and accounting principles etc.

[@jawwadafridi2194]

Thoughtflux ancient India still can't invent toilet..BS

[@donottrust]

@@jawwadafridi2194 sure they did, where else did you crawl out from?

[@StefanTravis]

Let's pretend that's true. So what? Advanced civilisations have the wisdom to take the best from each other.

[@rebeccaboyed9859]

They have forgot the fact that Iraq/Iran/Egypt and the Levant were Christian or Greek or Persian before Islam took them over and the people were forced to convert to Islam or die so none of these idea's or writings are Arab Muslim. In other words the Islamic world either took them over or if not of any use they destroyed them ie books etc.

[@sik3xploit]

It's well known that they took over just about everything only for Muslims to claim that it was their own creation. lol they would go so far to take over the world and teach new generations that everything in the world was invented by them.

[@nikasyraf1876]

rebecca boyed well there is no forcing to convert in Islam… people accept Islam by their own free will… Furthermore Islam is before the creation of Adam

[@d_wang9836]

rebecca boyed People keep forgetting Christians did the same exact fucking thing.

[@sik3xploit]

Nik I am sure Islam created the fucking Sun too. Giving people an ultimatum of converting or be murdered is a big damn stretch of saying they accepted it by their free will.

[@Grizabeebles]

+sik3xploit -- historical records show that by and large the Arab Empire was *more* religiously tolerant than Christian empires during the 12th century. Sure you had to pay an extra tax and were banned from civil service but they didn't crucify you or chase you down with horses whenever there was a new King.

[@DrasticPurpleHippo]

Nice touch at the end with the indian numerals. ;)

[@muhammadabuzarkhan7450]

These persons know nothing. What about the Mongols destroying 'medarassa' (school of that time) and throwing books in the rivers? If Al-Ghazali have bad opinions doesn't mean he is to blame. I don't think he ever wrote anything like that in the book. I don't think these people ever read book of Al-Ghazali. I like how everyone agree with him and applaud them. For what ? You say in today media they will be considered islamophobic. But didn't they just said bad and misleading thing about Al-Ghazali. Let's not forget how they ignore the suffering of the Muslim because of the Mongols.

[@claudiaxander]

He says that if the Mongol destruction of Bagdad was to blame then Isalm's golden age would return with the empires return. IT DID NOT! You cannot continue to blame the mongols when you now have the internet!

[@muhammadabuzarkhan7450]

@Dad *Bissmillah

[@adonissalameh1746]

Stop lying to yourselves Need i remind you how Salah Al Din burned tens of thousands of books written by the scientists of the Fatimid Caliphate Need i remind that all of the Scientists muslims are proud of today were considered infidels and atheists in their time by the islamic scholars...many of them faced oppression, had a lot of their books burned and the work of their lives destroyed, and needless to say many faced a horrible death. Your last Caliphate, the Ottoman Caliphate lasted 4 centuries.. didn’t create anything of value and left no legacy for humanity but new torture and execution methods..and famine and poverty and genocides in the lands it occupied.

[@l00ttf]

@@claudiaxander Wow some scientific analysis right there

[@l00ttf]

@@adonissalameh1746 Lying to himself? That's your strongest argument a lie? do some research first also the scientific work from around the world were preserved by the Muslims , all of what you are talking about is just lies with no examples or references while ignoring their great work in chemistry medicine algebra astronomy...

[@faizelkhan283]

This whole comment section is full of philosopher's and historians I see

[@jasonlee8156]

And your another one I presume?

[@myday805]

Arabic does not = Islam. Especially back then. Christianity and other religions and cultures were in abundance in the middle back then. Though then, as now, Islam was in a constant state of conflict with those other religions and cultures. Just because there were Arabic scientific achievements at that time it doesn't mean that they were muslim. In fact history shows that the rise of Islam correlates with the decline of science and discovery in the region.

[@johnjones6601]

Yep.Agree. Science is in a sense, a secular pursuit. If the Arabs made any contributions to scientific advancement,it was in spite of their religion, not because of it.

[@Grizabeebles]

+John Jones -- Isaac Newton would beg to differ. Studying the natural world is studying God's creation. It is like studying an artist through His paintings. It's just a shame that so many would rather study a handful of books rather than the entire Universe He has laid out for us.

[@shaheenali4459]

My Day where did you get your history. You are wrong you are just being g prejudice.

[@mohamedlaminebouaziz5969]

Grizabeebles It just seems that your "God" didn't leave any trace of his existence, newton did believe in God, but he did pretty much all of his work in physics and math using the scientific method, actually after he devoted himself to Christianity, he didn't accomplish anything.

[@Grizabeebles]

+ Mohamed Lamine Bouaziz -- Okay first, it seems like you missed the point of what I said. Scientific understanding and religion don't have to be mutually opposed if you are willing to change your beliefs in light of new evidence. If you believe a God created a world that obeys physical laws then either this creator is restrained by those same physical laws or had a perfectly good reason to create them. That makes folks like those "Answers in Genesis" people hypocrites because when they reject the truth of the created _they effectively reject the creator as well._ It's like trying to explain who Da Vinci was while insisting the whole time that he painted the Mona Lisa with a fire hose. Second, you clearly haven't actually read any Newton. The guy is _the model_ for how to reconcile occult beliefs and the scientific method. He _constantly_ invoked God's active intervention for phenomena he did not yet understand. His model of the spectrum includes "Indigo" solely because its "the color of royalty" and the number 7 has occult significance. Newton was an ardent believer in alchemical transmutation even as he formulated the basis of modern chemistry. He wrote works on prophecy and interpreting the bible even though he's also _the guy_ who reshaped our understanding of God from all-powerful micro-manager into a being of rational and universal principles. And he did it _almost single-handed!_ As to him "devoting himself to Christianity," the guy was a lifelong _heretic._ Later in life his scientific productivity did fall off, but that's probably because in 1696 the King made him warden of the Royal Mint _and ordered him to collect and re-issue every silver coin in Britain._ Lastly, about "my" God -- I'm a Deist dipshit. The absence of proof is not proof of absence. Unless there is some feature of the universe that cannot exist without a creator or we somehow prove the entire cosmos is a closed system that requires no "first cause" then we can't know with rigour whether or not a God exists. I'm doing the sensible thing and withholding judgement until further study.

[@anthonyrader3466]

Yes, Islam destroyed its own 'Golden Age' and we in the west are doing the same with our cultural marxism. Both of these events although many years apart have the same cause: A closed mind due to rigid ideological thinking.

[@pejmansehatpour7838]

The only reason I'm saying anything here is because I respect Neil DeGrasse Tyson. I feel there is an agenda here beyond trying to understand shortcomings of civilizations in order to grow.

[@jonhilderbrand4615]

1. It wasn't an "Islamic Golden Age," it was a "Persian Golden Age." 2. If the world goes to more sustainable energy (solar, wind, electric, etc.) sources, the oil producing Arab/Muslim states are doomed, since it takes _science_ to create and innovate in these areas.

[@xfom4008]

Well, it has affected parts of the Arab world, but persia was the center.

[@inquisitorofkek2472]

The problem is the Arabs claim the Fertile Crescent as Arabic. It’s not. Before there was a culture known as Arabic, the Babylonians, Assyrians, Medes, all these different ethnicities existed and were studying the stars and mathematics. Islam inherited those things when they conquered those places. Arabs themselves were desert nomads. These things were not developed in Arabia, but on the graveyards of places they conquered. We think about nearly the entire Middle East as Arab but it wasn’t like that in Roman times and certainly not before that. What was it Napoleon said? “What is history but lies agreed upon?” The conquerors name things whatever they want. In this case we just have clear evidence that the Indians were using 0 at the time. Hell, they may have gotten them from the Chinese. We don’t know. It’s too far back into unrecorded history.

[@theseeker9591]

Al-Ghazali's critique of falsafa was in fact meant to encourage critical thinking. He is arguably the earliest scholar to advocate separation of social sciences from natural science. He argued that some fundamentalists, who perceive falsafa to be incompatible with religion, tend to categorically reject all views adopted by "philosophers", including scientific fact like the lunar and solar eclipse. And when that person is later persuaded of a certain view, he tends to blindly accept all other views held by philosophers. Al-Ghazali, in the introduction of the book, described this type of people as "believers by imitation, who rush to accept falsehood without verification and inquiry". He added that the purpose of the book is to "pinpoint the incoherence of [the philosophers'] creed and the contradiction of their words, with regard to theology, and to point out the vicissitudes and shortcomings of their way of thinking". Religious colleges impeding progress He distinguished between philosophy and logic on one hand and physics and mathematics on the other. That is the "incoherence" in falsafa that al-Ghazali set out to dissect in his book. The idea that al-Ghazali created repugnance among Muslims to science has been put forward by modern academics. No Muslim scholar at the time had advocated views against science because of al-Ghazali's thesis. On the contrary, even his contemporaries noted that al-Ghazali remained loyal to philosophy till the day he died. They noted after his death that "our master swallowed philosophy and could not throw it up".

[@wotizit]

Ignorant Tyson

[@rogersheddy6414]

When do we look at the last statement? Talking about Indian numerals, we see a huge truth here. It was not Islamic invention but Islamic appropriation of other things through trade.

[@Vlaid65]

How many people of giant intellect (of both genders) were lost to the human family due to simply being born Muslim? A one-planet species is doomed to perish, we need all the smart people we can get.

[@alboshajdari3316]

Sadly, as hard as this is for me (as I'm a Muslim too) to accept it, something really did went wrong. And that is the interpretation of Islam. I don't know for sure who Muhammad al Ghazali was and what he did, but the moment a Muslim has split science and Islam as a religion, they have somehow deviated from the right path of Islam. Saying that nature's laws chain God's hand when you see those laws actually being proven and happening right before your eyes, is a very critical statement to make towards a Muslim's belief. Allah works according to those laws since He made those laws. Moses' (pbuh) miracle of splitting the sea can be explained nowadays with physics. A really hard wind blew and it split the sea (people did small experiments trying to prove this)... even if this wasn't the truth, I could give it a reasonable explanation. If this wasn't that hard for me to explain it, or more accurately saying, to give a theory, then imagine how easy it was for Allah to just make that miracle happen? Although I understand that there are some things in the holy book of Kuran, and the sayings of the prophet Muhammad pbuh that science will probably never prove them, but it will never disprove them (like the existence of angels and devils). That's the right mindset a Muslim should have, if I dare say 'must have' . Pursuing any kind of science WITH good intention, makes Allah to love us. We (as Muslims) must deny only the teachings of how to communicate with the devils (Jinns), and those teachings that don't have ANY KIND of value (so basically when it's a waste of time). Pursuing science wont make Allah weaker (or stronger), and denying science wont make Allah stronger (or weaker). Science will happen, with or without us (clearly it is happening right now mostly without us), but it's our option if we want to become part of it or not. It really breaks my heart when the majority of Muslims have become this way (the bad way) and all other people (non-Muslims) think that this is what Islam really is, when it is not. :'( I'm a computer engineering student, I love science and deep thoughts, mathematics, physics, programming etc. , I'm a Muslim too, and I haven't yet found a single sentence in Kuran or in the prohept's (pbuh) sayings that I shouldn't or mustn't pursue science. I blame most of the scholars who talk about the benefits of studying very rarely, making it seem unimportant. May Allah put them and us all in the right path. Amin!

[@GardeniaInc]

First of all when we hear or see new especially we dont have knowledge about it in islam thought and teach to check it first..not only al ghazali faced slander prophet muhd saw faced worse than that..al quran never reject science why??bcs al quran contain it..precisely all knowledge(if study it will know)also bcs its from creator..always left sign..never ever religious book in this world ask to ponder and reason like al quran..meaning asking to thinking and use heart..use properly knowledge left by previous scholar thousand of book in many field search for it..everything muslim do bcs of allah swt..thats the different with non muslim..dont shock book(kitab)music,animal,falak,soul,law many book left for muslim to study and as guidance..find the right ulama.

[@chairforce664]

It didn't lose itself, y'all are just underestimating what the Mongols did, they massacred all the scholars and burnt down all the places of knowledge, burnt all the research, they destroyed everything, if you literally kill all scholars and scientists in a place and burn down all their research what do you expect? You're insane if you really believe one guy changed the entire civilization.

[@Atma-tq6zi]

Arabic numerals came from India. India and China had there own names for the stars.

[@ss-ib8gm]

the golden age was first generation converts were translating works of egyptian, mesopotamia, indians ,persians, greeks .which christians had destroyed

[@sulaak]

The constellation origin is in Ancient Egypt and Sumeria. The Periodic table was created by a Russian chemist Dmitri Mendeleev, he was the first to publish a recognizable periodic table in 1869 and Arabic numerals are really Hindu numerals.

[@steveweatherbe]

So Neil de Grasse Tyson's story about George Bush is totally false. Two years after 9 11, memorializing astronauts killed in the space shuttle, he said that the Creator who knows the names of every star also knows the names of these astronauts. Nothing to do with "we" and "they" ! Christians vs Muslims. Tyson however , is a lot about science vs Christians and is willing to lie about it.

[@yehiaelyamani6943]

I do find Tyson's claim about Ghazali much well founded. Later on in his life Ghazali did renounce his position about logic contrary to his earlier belief. Also, it's greatly misleading to put the whole blame on the mongols. After all, those scientists we all respect today, were in the majority either ill-treated, banished, or accused of heresy and their books got burnt. Ibn al Haytham fled from Baghdad fearing for his life. Ibn Sina was dubbed the principal of atheists. Ibn Rushd faced similar charges and his books, too got burnt. Gaber ibn Hayan also accused of Heresy, as was Al-Razi. The list goes on and on. The science of chemistry was considered related to black magic. Logic was also ill-reputed and was even considered forbidden by Imam AlSyouty and others. The problem with causality was also of imortance. Scholars tried to deny any cause-effect occurrences except to the Supreme Being (Allah) and one can imagine what that can do to any scientific endeavor! I might advise to read Ghazali's 'Tahafut al Phalasipha' where he tries to refute some arguments but has in effect cast dark shadows on the philosopher/scientists group as a whole.

[@zaraiwzara]

But what fed those geniuses discoveries, good education and civilizational condition, was destroyed by the mongols

[@yehiaelyamani6943]

@@zaraiwzara Thank you for the comment. You do have a point. Even Tyson (& others) pointed this out. However, many countries survived & prospered after devastating wars, Germany, Japan and many others. The mongols were stopped from entering Egypt and their influence was non-existent in the African Muslim countries. A setback may last for decades not centuries. Moreover when influential scholars as AlGhazali and later on Ibn Taymiyah take unfriendly stand from logic, chemistry, astronomy as disciplines and from practising scientists by deeming many of them as heretics, this should not be disregarded. The matter is not limited to an academic question, but the Muslim nations are far behind the civilized world and any attempt at understanding the root cause(s) should not be brushed away lightly so that we as Muslims can once again contribute to culture and civilization alongside other nations to help create a better world.

[@zaraiwzara]

@@yehiaelyamani6943 many countries have indeed recovered after devastating wars, that doesn't mean this will always be the case, in the west americans economically supported germany, in the east the soviets did the same, the same thing happened to some degree in japan. They didn't received any support from invanding forces afterwards, but the blow was more devastating, i heard in a documentary that there were more people living in cities in iraq before the mongol invasion than in the late 19th century, while this cannot be the only reason, it surely was one of the primary ones, a golden age usually depends on a ideology, philosophy or religion that stimulates gaining of knowledge, and good political and economic conditions, While islam if the quran is read correctly can always be positive about seeking and gaining knowledge, the political and economic condition not so much, you have to remember that all islamic states descended from revolts from the ummayad, abbassid invasions by nomad turkic peoples and so on, scholars went from being paid the weight of the book they translated in gold, to being ignored in some cases. I think in some way, the golden age didn't stop, as most things, it faded away, mali, the timurids and the ottomans contributed to some degree to human knowledge, but ultimately political and economic conditions were simply too bad, north africa was transformed into a french colony, the ottomans were the old man of europe, persia was the playground of the russian and british empires, in resume, we cant blame the just the mongols, but most probably invaders such as the mongols were one of the main culprits

[@yehiaelyamani6943]

@@zaraiwzara Greetings from Egypt. BTW you are from ?

[@zaraiwzara]

@@yehiaelyamani6943 Greetings from Brazil my friend

[@mahanpathak24]

This was plagiarism but not intentional perhaps. Many Indian works were translated in Arabic by the Persian scholars. That got introduced to the west by the Arabs and that is why in the west they came to be known as Arabic inventions. You can find all of numbers , algebra etc still in ancient Indian texts and this is a verifiable fact. In fact many translations very clearly state that this is how Hindus do the calculations. I guess as India becomes more and more powerful , sometime in the future Indians will reclaim their legacy. Arabic language worked as a medium to propagate the eastern concepts into the west and that itself is a great contribution.

[@XxpauldadudexX]

True, Arabs are no.1 at plagiarism, even the Quran plagiarized from Judaism, Christianity.

[@XxpauldadudexX]

Also, it wasn't til the Brits that the world began learning and showed greatest interest in Indian culture and inventions, beliefs after Brits assimilated it and promoted and exported it, prolly very much like Arabs did earlier.

[@alexanderchristopher6237]

It is not like we had MLA citations back in the good old Middle Ages, you know? Many were more worried about not getting the plague rather than worrying whether a monk plagiarized somebody in his work.

[@Bekltuvanetko]

Islam came in Arabic not Persian smart boy, Ibn Sina, Ibn which means son in Arabic, Arabs invaded Persia, and made Persia Muslims, I am Arabic born, those Persian you talking about became Arabs when they got occupied by Arabs, nothing as Persian in Islamic golden age, the Quran is in Arabic not in Persian smart ass.

[@Bekltuvanetko]

They were Persian but became Arabs when they Islam came, Islam came with Arabs not with Persian haha 😆

[@ni_lao]

I found Neil's explanation superficial. Where does the dogma come from? Ask Bertrand Russell.

[@thelord2663]

🤡

[@Mr._POV_]

These are the modern geniuses that tell you the measurements of a ruler is wrong. Lol seriously!🤣

[@su2spinors]

Rulers are notoriously inaccurate. I am a physicist at Princeton University and the first thing we teach our students is to throw away the normal rulers away. It's because measurements are in the end comparison and normal rulers are notoriously wrong in their length of inches, cm etc. It happens because they were not built by comparing with the standards meter length. Always use Screw Gauge or Vernier Calipers if you are doing actual scientific measurements (Laser distance meter if you have the budget). Watching youtube videos ain't gonna help you become a scientist. Read some book first.

[@vdmur7952]

What’s funny. Rulers are very rough instruments of measurement!

[@tasinal-hassan8268]

Well that's not what's wrong with Neil. Problem is that he opines about specific fields like he's some expert,and the irony here is that Al-Ghazali warned us about that.

[@peakjvs4967]

@@tasinal-hassan8268 Correct. I'm a huge Ghazali fan and he talks exactly about such idiots as Neil, just because he specializes in one area, he thinks he can talk about anything else he has no idea about

[@tasinal-hassan8268]

@@peakjvs4967 Yeah. Al-Ghazali was merely concerned about how Islamic philosophers were studying mathematics in order to monopolize it solely for the sake of their unsubstantiated metaphysical views. So he was not anti-mathematics __per se;_ he tried to facilitate it by pointing out its misuse by his intellectual opponents. If anything,Al-Ghazali *saved mathematics* by keeping it away from philosophy,a field that deals with abstract concepts like morality,deity,miracles,etc. Maybe if Neil spent more time reading his books in depth than relying on a cursory review,he would've been spared from the age old Orientalist nonsense.

[@YamiKisara]

"Arabic numerals" were actually from a region in India that muslims destroyed, we only call them Arabic because they came to Europe from Arabia - there's a flaw in the naming convention because people tend to name things depending on how they first got into contact with them (for example look at the Japanese names for other countries, the earliest contacts have a real Japanese word, while the rest is kinda just taken from other languages), not strictly based on the land or person of origin (that's more of a modern and also a very American thing to do). Other so called "muslim inventions" share the same fate.

[@nziom]

YamiKisara no that was in old Iran not Indian you ignorant check you're facts first.

[@VK-wf9qe]

n ziom nah dumbass Arabic numerals are actually written In Sanskrit it can from India even the Arabs and Persians called it Hindu number system

[@nziom]

@@VK-wf9qe nope *١٢٣٤٥٦٧٨٩٠* this is Hindu number's 1234567890 are Arabic numerals and that's how they call them I rest my case.

[@VK-wf9qe]

n ziom you didn’t rest anything idiot those arab numbers are borrowed from Sanskrit numbers. Just cause Arabs use it now doesn’t mean it originated from them do some research fool and your so stupid that the actual numbers have as Hindu numbers are actual Arab numbers and switched it and said the modern numbers used today is Arabic when it’s actually Sanskrit. Muslims are the masters of plagiarism.

[@VK-wf9qe]

n ziom kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4nQlJmGpNpniqc

[@FredHandle1]

So one scholar halted the advance of 3 Muslim empires?? How simplistic. It clearly was the Mongolians, who burned everything down & forced the Muslims into a purely military style culture. It then took 200 yrs to convert & civilize those mongols, but even then, they were only interested in making conquest, so Architecture & military applications were the only fields given patronage. This led to the improvements on the canon & ignored everything else. At the same time, on the western front another Muslim Empire in Andalusia was under constant attack from several nations in Europe. Progress occurs during peace time & above all it needs patronage. Neither the Indian numerals nor the Math of the Persians, would have become internationalized or even seen the light without Islamic patronage in Baghdad & Andalusia. Yeah the Indians made great initial advances in Math, but then they stagnated for 100's of yrs & neglected it. What did they do with it over the course of their civilization? Without the Arabs bringing the almost forgotten Indian mathematicians to Baghdad & paying & applying great Persian minds onto the Indian numerals we wouldn't have the intellectual leaps into Mathematical Logic & Algebraic equations. From there there many Arab, Persian, Afghani, Jewish, Asian...mathematicians carried the science forward into architecture, engineering applications, & invented the scientific method. So let no Indian or Persian whose just a hater of Arabs deprive those Arabs their great role in amassing great knowledge for the benefit of the whole world. Arabs in particular also had a great share of the contributions in too many fields, lets not pretend that Math is all that was. But the Arabs utmost greatness lied in bringing great minds, gov & money together [without racism] for the benefit of the world. They gave us universities, hospitals, libraries, preserved, organised & compressed knowledge into encyclopedias for future scholars. Paper from China, silk from India & China, steel makers, ship rudders & triangular sails, soap, oils, glass blower, weavers from the Arabs of Syria, Lebanon, Iraq & Asia..etc. So no, it wasn't Ghazali whom you've gravely misquoted, he was too small for that. It govs that direct nations towards progress or recession & the fall was mainly due to decadence, corruption, division, that allowed external invasion & the ransacing of the cities. Ushering in the rule of the ignoramus. Mr Degrasse is holding the telescope from its opposite end. Physicists should stick to their field where they know what they're talking about.

[@JerzyFeliksKlein]

One thing they could have mentioned, and I'll forgive them for having a bias towards Science, was that the Islamic world of the time preserved Greek achievements in medicine, developed them and helped to spread the to Europe.

[@khabibnurmagomedov9707]

There wasn't only greek achievement. there was also other innovations, like what ibn sina, al razi and al-zahrawi were able to do. they contribute a lot to medicine and surgery.

[@fvai8203]

God wanted something to burn, how? Fire usage. God want rain, how? Clouds getting closer to each other. The moral of this is everything happens bc of the laws God applied.

[@theseeker9591]

actually fire burns because aGod allow it. rain happens because God allowed clouds to come. Come on, it makes sense.

[@worlddj1364]

@@theseeker9591 it is coherent and viable. But is not falsifiable. I can create other non falsifiable theories and claims like this

[@Raven.flight]

with regards to the nomenclature of the numbering system, I always referred to them as Hindu-Arabic numbering.

[@duaspontes3716]

but buddy, you can't really fundament a prediction or a "should've" hypothesis regarding human behaviour by applying methods from the natural sciences, that's not how it works. that's not how any of this works. I'm not saying there aren't flaws in traditional Islamic doctrine and extremism (in general), but you can't, for example, dismiss the overall effects of, let's say, the crusades plus the Mongol invasion plus the Ottoman domination plus European imperialism plus a plethora of events that influence a culture's development (social, economical and scientifical)

[@Bush21122]

He doesn't say Islam destroyed the Golden Age, he says an influential scholar named Al-Ghazali destroyed the Golden Age. Kind of a big difference!

[@crookedlamp]

This talk just made me realize that Muslim people, especially represantatives of the Islamic elite (correctly) view the world as under the hegemony of the Western cultural and its technological advance. Some may be painfully aware of how societal progress in the West lead to the unprecedented drop in religiosity. And as religion is the sole base of social consensus in most Islamic societis, even a slight thought of relinquishing traditions causes fear and maybe total rejection of Western ideas. I understand that. What I cannot accept is that despite the obvious failure of those overcome traditions to meet the needs of people in a postmodern world those Muslim elites condemn secular education and by that their people to lack of perspectives and consequently to failure as human beings.

[@Sev7_omar]

also here's another comment I found under this video by someone called KIRK. From the wikipedia article "The Incoherence of the Incoherence" - "Al-Ghazali stated that one must be well versed in the ideas of the philosophers before setting out to refute their ideas. Al-Ghazali also stated that he did not have any problem with other branches of philosophy such as physics, logic, astronomy or mathematics. His only axe to grind was with metaphysics, in which he claimed that the philosophers did not use the same tools, namely logic, which they used for other sciences." If the above is accurate, does it seem likely that Al Ghazali was really against science? That bit about the fire and the cotton has to do with occasionalism vs independent cause and effect. Science is not capable of knowing the ultimate 1st cause. God is the ultimate cause of all things i.e. the absolute explanation, but that does not mean that relative explanations are incorrect - a fact pointed out by Averroes. Was the theological/ontological point that Al Ghazali made truly to blame for the decline of science Islamic in lands? As far as I'm aware, the consensus of Islamic scholarship was never against any sort against scientific inquiry at any time. But were Muslims nonetheless discouraged to any extent in pursuing such by Al Ghazali's explanation of occasionalism?

[@object764]

The "death to America" chant in Iran is not to Americans but to ordinary Iranians who are culturally modernists ie western culture.

[@Josef-cb4jf]

@@object764 No, it's pretty much to America and its government. They're sick of the US intervening in their politics. Look up Operation Ajax.

[@Nothing-zw3yd]

@@object764 LMAO!!! Ok, sure.

[@jjester4597]

Most places do end their own golden age

[@boyinthecave]

About the "Arabic Numerals" ; The numerals used in the middle east today (١٢٣٤٥٦٧٨٩٠) are not those which gave rise to the numerals (1234567890) used throughout the world. The origin of the numerals familiar to us today is the western Berber (Moorish/Amazigh) world of Andalusia/Morocco. The reason they are now named after the Arabs is not because the Arabs invented them but because the Europeans came to learn them in books written in Arabic and so they called them "Arabic Numerals" referring to the language not the people. Keep in mind that the Berbers learned Arabic at an early age though it is not their mother tongue, and they learned it mainly to read and recite the Quran and for writing since they didn't write in their own language before but did so in Latin which was dominant in the region. Arabs in the middle east still use the Indian numerals today as all the non-Arabs there, they never used the North African numerals. To recapitulate: ١٢٣٤٥٦٧٨٩٠: Indian numeral : used in middle east. 1234567890: N. African/Moorish/Berber/Amazigh...numerals: used all over the world

[@notanothermichael4676]

As a Malay, this is true.

[@gameoverplz9121]

From the wikipedia article "The Incoherence of the Incoherence" - "Al-Ghazali stated that one must be well versed in the ideas of the philosophers before setting out to refute their ideas. Al-Ghazali also stated that he did not have any problem with other branches of philosophy such as physics, logic, astronomy or mathematics. His only axe to grind was with metaphysics, in which he claimed that the philosophers did not use the same tools, namely logic, which they used for other sciences."

[@homerco213]

How did America not invent the internet? Yes, yes America did invent the internet.

[@dsbeerf]

Michael Dziengel Not just the USA, but the US Military (DARPA). ;^)

[@Profit..]

Actually “the watchers”