It's Happening: The Toronto S-Bahn

[@RMTransit]

I hope everyone enjoys the new animations! I could not be more excited, what's your favorite part of the plans?

[@neolithictransitrevolution427]

My favorite part isn't actually part of the RER plans; it's Ontario requiring municipalities to increase density and TOD at GO stations so that the network has users. But I guess that the trains will go so much faster? That's likely many small parts of the plan.

[@Jay-jq6bl]

The speed I suppose. I've been trying to figure what the fastest trains are for S Bahn style service(integrated drive unit). The MARC Penn line seems more like a Regional Express than an S Bahn, with only 13 stations over 124km. I never saw a Regional Express train in the S Bahn tunnel in Frankfurt, so I don't know if it's a capacity issue or some other reason. I know the S Bahn has stopped at the same platforms as the ICE through. Are these different types of trains interchangeable? What's the trade-off?

[@mrmaniac3]

Looks like there's a little flickering around some of the animations, but I'm not sure if that's just on my end. Hopefully it's something simple to iron out 😅

[@RMTransit]

@@mrmaniac3 I tried to fix but ended up running out of time sadly

[@rossbleakney3575]

@@Jay-jq6bl This does seem more like MARC. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the S-Bahn not only has a lot of stations outside the city, but inside as well. It would be weird, but you could ride around much of the city on just the S-Bahn. I don't think that will be possible with GO, as nice as it is.

[@NotJustBikes]

😲

[@GamingRailfanner]

Hello

[@GrasshopperWithoutGrass]

verified channel with 7 likes? damn (also hi njb love your content)

[@transitingermany8909]

I think you have a video to do…

[@reformCopyright]

That's the reaction I expected and my reaction too.

[@blakksheep736]

Hi! Thanks for the post!

[@raquelesteves3334]

Higher speeds are going to be amazing, I currently live in Oshawa, and to be able to go from here, to union in 30 minutes would be a game changer

[@oscarmena8193]

As a fellow torontonian, i gotta say; you are doing the lords work lol. Great channel budd!

[@n.b.3521]

Hear hear!

[@samuelgilbert9734]

♥♥♥ About time that we get some descent transit in Canada! I hope the political will to get this done doesn't disappear and that the schedule doesn't slide by a decade.

[@andrewwoodgate3769]

Great news - I've never heard you so energised 😁

[@Vortexone112]

One of the points you make in a lot of your videos is to focus on the service level and experience, not the technology. EMUs are a means to the end of improved service. If they can reach the proposed service levels while reusing the existing rolling stock then that’s fantastic and saves lots of money for other improvements. Though of course us transit fans will be a little disappointed that it’s not as shiny 😉

[@sebastianmalton5967]

As a resident of KW this is great. But I really wish that the Kitchener Line was being fully electrified

[@RMTransit]

Hopefully that can happen in the future

[@Fight4MyDuty]

You should do a video about the neighborhoods of Toronto that will improve the most from this and other transit projects in the next 10 years.

[@pauldevey8628]

I am sure rapid accelerating electric trains put a strain on the electrical system. With all the transit being built I hope the province has enough electrical capacity or builds it.

[@capetian12]

Service to Kitchener would be fantastic, it is embarrassing that there is no direct service from KW to Toronto and Pearson yet.

[@brucemastorovich4478]

Congrats!

[@trevorthefoamer220]

They could use acs-64s as their Electric locomotives, as Amtrak is going to get rid of them

[@isar.trainz]

The plans as you have shown us are really looking like a XXL sibling of Dresden S-Bahn, which btw has the highest amount of pleased passengers in Germany. So the concept they are going to follow has a large potential to be successfull

[@flytrapYTP]

The elusive pleased German passenger seal of approval.

[@isar.trainz]

@@flytrapYTP Yep

[@DaDoubleDee]

@@flytrapYTP chasing that peak efficiency like chasing the dragon LOL

[@simeonlinke3437]

Has it? Dresden SBahn is a mess 😅 as I lived there for almost 20 years I dont understand how its possible to be happy with this.

[@antonmuller5863]

You probably mean Leipzig's S-Bahn Network reaching out into all of the MDV Area😌

[@mr.norris3840]

It’s always entertaining to see ~500k population cities in Europe having drastically better public transportation than the largest metropolian areas in NA.

[@waylondesnoyers7459]

A lot of it is due to size of the cities (Km²) rather than population. Though, regional regulations for/against rail also play a large part. In my city, Ottawa (population 1M) we have extensive bus services and a metro which is currently being extended. Ironically, we had more services in the past but left them for the automobile. However, consider that we are the size of the German state of Saarland alone, and that is not including the metropolitan area (~2800km² vs ~ 6300km²) In contrast, a place like Frankfurt or Berlin has more people in about ¼ of the area of Ottawa.

[@lj2265]

@@waylondesnoyers7459 Most of it is actually political will and the sway of auto and oil lobbyists lol If it was about city size, then our smaller cities would have killer public transit but they don't. They're even worse than the big cities. Fact is we just don't have enough political will to make it happen, our politicians are in the pockets of auto and oil interests and our regular people bought all the auto-centric propaganda hook line and sinker. I worked for Greyhound and heard all the stories of the many ways coach services were sabotaged by the car industry, they also had the airlines actively working against them on top of it, whose lobbyists are more powerful here than perhaps even the auto industry. This is why VIA rail still sucks too. The plain fact of the matter is Europeans just have more will than we do, and they're not as brainwashed and dopey as we are. There's no point in making excuses for ourselves. Any time something is brought up about why Europe has it better than we do people, particularly conservatives, pin it on them being smaller. But its complete BS, because being smaller should mean they actually have less resources to do things with. Fact of the matter is we're just too lazy, dumb and corrupt to get it done.

[@mr.norris3840]

@@lj2265 I agree. While the size of cities also plays a major role, the sole development of car centric places led to such huge cities area wise in the first place.

[@dr3754]

North America transit was the wonder of the world and extremely extensive down to the smallest city, town and inter-city streetcars in the first half of the last century, but the auto and oil lobbies destroyed that over here. However, the streets and roads are far more extensive -- and as you can see here in this Toronto example improved rail is rolling back in play, at least sporatically. You want to know what really sux for rail and transit in North america? Mexico city. good lord are they underserved for their size!

[@tonywalters7298]

@@dr3754 I thought Mexico City had a decent rapid transit system? I could be wrong though. I would say Phoenix could qualify as a city with terrible transit given its size.

[@transitthinker]

Still disappointed that EMU's aren't part of the short term plans but they would probably be very costly. Thanks for covering the news!

[@RMTransit]

Absolutely would have been the cherry on top

[@erichhouchens3711]

I'm sure there are several reasons they're keeping locomotive hauled trains for now. 1) GO has a large fleet of bi-levels that still has a lot of life left in them. Later on EMU's can be ordered and added to the fleet as the bi-levels age out. 2) There is a ready supply, though somewhat limited, of electric locomotives. The ALP45DM's in Montreal will soon be looking for a new home. Also New Jersey Transit is getting a fresh order of ALP45's so I'm sure Alstom could easily crank out more. This would allow through service beyond the end of catenary as I believe both CN and CP have said no/non to any catenary over their tracks. Amtrak has also indicated that it will be releasing some of it's ACS64's once the new bi-mode trains arrive. There is also a number of retired AEM7's stored in Rhode Island. 3) EMU's and DMU's (at least in the US) are considered "locomotives" and are subject to more frequent inspections as opposed to "dumb" coaches. This could be a cost savings over the long term. 4) Locomotive hauled trains can be "sized" for variations in ridership. No need to haul around a 12 car train on weekends. EMU's are generally made up of two, four or six car "married" sets that are semi permanently coupled (drawbars) between the ends. Reducing cars for weekend service is not that easy. 5) Aren't the Union Parson's DMU's (as few as there are) designed to be converted to EMU's? Replace the diesel engine with a transformer and add a pantograph to the roof. Of course I could be wrong on that.

[@ARod4374]

@@RMTransit I mean, this doesn't preclude them doing it later. Maybe, if we're lucky and the CalTrain KISS order works out well, then as older bilevel cars start to hit EOL they could be replaced with KISS units on Metrolinx's usual capital expenditure cycle. It's one of those things that might be better done at a slower pace, since the 2100 and 2200 series Bilevels will be 40 by around 2030, and thus would be approaching the end of their natural in-service lives. That schedule would also give Metrolinx eight to ten years to plan for new railyards (or perhaps, given some of the points that ​ @nickssaa was making below, to upgrade Don and North Bathurst Yards to handle KISSes and build new small yards on line ends to serve the remaining unelectrified trackage on the periphery of the system.)

[@katbryce]

In the UK, I think the only loco-hauled electric trains we have are the older Class 373 Eurostars that work the route between London and Brussels, and the only loco diesels are the Class 43 Intercity 125, which are mostly retired now with some sets being used as donor sets to provide spare parts for the ones that are still in use, plus a few overnight sleeper services.

[@ARod4374]

@@katbryce That is one of the nice things about the UK; you guys have such a wide variety of multiple-unit stock over there. I'm still a bit salty that Amtrak didn't just get Class 80x trains for its non-sleeper routes; you could use 9-car class 801s and/or 803s for routes that stay under the wire on the NEC the whole way, while Class 802s would be perfect for services to VA and the Connecticut River Valley (half under wire, half not) and for corridor services across the country (fully functional in diesel mode, and usable under wire should electrification efforts eventually happen in the USA).

[@synura8086]

Rarely seen anybody so excited that Deutsche Bahn is coming :) But seriously, according to reports this involves modernising 450 km of track around Toronto and a 25 year management contract, which is enormous.

[@weeardguy]

Haha ;) That's about the same reaction I could say about the Dutch Railways ;) . Thanks for clearing up the scale of this project. I don't know Toronto, of course have not got a single clue about the size of the city and the map with all the lines doesn't really show the magnitude of what's going to happen. 450 km is a lot. I just hope it doesn't boil down to European practices of promising a lot, while during construction downplaying basically everything because it's getting too expensive. Also hope they actually finish it before it goes into service ;) Don't know how that works in Germany, but in the Netherlands, large projects around PT usually never finish on time and require quite some work after being put into service...

[@jan_franzke]

If they're on time DB is mostly okay. But that's a BIG If.

[@tilmanarchivar8945]

@@jan_franzke Its also the fault of german gov not investing in infra

[@forkast]

​@@weeardguya year later and some of the progress is already happening faster than Reece said! The davenport diamond has already been completed. It looks like it will be done as promised!

[@weeardguy]

@@forkast Wow! Apparently, some countries take it more serious than others... A big project here has been plagued by delays, downplaying everything, eventually even talking about cancelling the whole deal... but now works are ongoing again. But as usual, it goes way over budget, the project will not be what was promised and the deadline to finish it has now been postponed many, many times. And that all because they don't want international trains at Amsterdam CS anymore (yes, really... go figure... how stupid that tourists from other countries can directly enter the heart of a city by train, they will have to transfer in the future at a station at the edge of the city (if the plans go according to schedule/wishes of the operators)

[@DrewRycerz]

Alright, the city should hire you and I'm not even joking. Much love from Toronto lol still can't believe how good this channel is and perhaps it's because my dad was an engineer and i was in physics but whatever the reason I sit back and actually watch. Better than watching most movies i'll be honest. Fiction is one thing, learning another.

[@gitgut4977]

We can also call GO transit "Stadtschnellbahn Toronto" :D

[@RMTransit]

That's an interesting potential name

[@robertcartwright4374]

BravoToronto! As a Vancouverite, I've got my nose pressed up against the glass, admiring your goodies. Way to go!

[@tomrogue13]

As a Michigander, I once again feel like I'm on the wrong side of the Big Puddles

[@emjeebutterz4405]

@@tomrogue13 Fellow Michigander here, here in Detroit we don't even have commuter rail to begin with. Well, we almost did, but when the funding went to the public to vote on, just over half of voters said no. However, the transportation agencies still really want to do it, so we can only hope they get their way soon.

[@tomrogue13]

@@emjeebutterz4405 yeah I was just reading some stuff about it some new plans for the region.

[@JuliasCesar]

From Vancouver as well and I wish we would end up with a better commuter rail network instead of the West Coast Express’s single line.

[@robertcartwright4374]

@@JuliasCesar It's really too bad there isn't a nice Surrey - Langley - Abbottsford - Chilliwack legacy corridor that could be built on. That would've been useful!

[@Black_Forest_Julez]

9:15 in Germany, the first electric-battery hybrid network in the Ortenau region will start in December 2023. It includes tracks were no overhead catenary is installed and you need the battery for providing electric power. The batteries can be charged while the train runs on tracks with catenary.

[@RMTransit]

Yes but it's a very different operation than this network which is akin to the S Bahns of urban areas

[@williamerazo3921]

And at terminals

[@KnightOfKnights]

Mhmm.. i think the first electric-battery hybrid trains will be rolled out in Schleswig-Holstein this December. Although they can only replace the trains bit by bit. Plenty of track where the trains will run on battery without overhead wire

[@Hastdupech8509]

We're getting this type of train in Italy too (Trenitalia has finally decided to renew its commuter rolling stock, about time), they will be called Blues. They will be like the Rocks, but hybrid and only one floor. We'll see how it'll all turn out

[@joriss5]

Given the planned frequency on the GO RER and the sheer mass of the trains (we're talking hundreds of tonnes, much more than the small battery-electric EMUs), complete electrification makes the most sense (because it's cost is basically constant whatever the number of trains use it, while battery power cost is proportional to the total train weight).

[@bahnspotterEU]

It would be interesting to see if GO could (at least partially) use the soon-to-be-largely-retired Amtrak ACS-64 on their electrified routes. I get that starting a new service with mostly existing or second-hand equipment isn‘t glamorous, but there is no other real customer to take those ACSs, and they will only be 15-17 years old by the time GO is projected to go live, far too young for the scrapper‘s torch.

[@jerrycoob4750]

_Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm_

[@markvogel5872]

Wait...why are they removing the acs-64?!

[@InventorZahran]

Are the ACS-64s just being replaced with newer versions of themselves? Judging by their latest diesel power choices, it appears that Amtrak wants to eventually operate a 100% Siemens-built locomotive fleet, and It would make sense to keep the ACS-64s around (especially since they share so many common parts with the SC-44 diesel engines). I highly doubt that they'll be replaced with an entirely different class of locomotive, unless Amtrak is finally bringing EMUs back to the Northeast Corridor...

[@RMTransit]

I find it crazy that Amtrak is getting rid of them but I don't think Toronto will buy them

[@bahnspotterEU]

@@InventorZahran The ACS-64 will become entirely redundant on Northeast Regional service with the introduction of the ALC-42E dual-mode locomotives/train sets. That means they would only be used on the long-distance trains running on the corridor, like the Silver Service, Palmetto, Crescent and Cardinal. For this Amtrak will need only a fraction of their current fleet of 70 locomotives, so the remaining ones will be without any use. GO Transit is the only agency with a possible need for these locomotives, along with NJT, who could perhaps take a few to replace their earliest ALP-46s, if desired.

[@pwhnckexstflajizdryvombqug9042]

"zero emissions electric trains" For a second there I was almost impressed until I realised that most commuter rail systems are electric and the GO trains are just a bit behind the times.

[@DarrylErickson]

It’s not GO that’s behind. It’s North America that’s behind. GO is actually ahead for North American standards

[@zackgro8440]

Actually it's GO that's behind. SEPTA Regional Rail is fully electrified and *has been.* So is Denver new RTD Commuter Rail. @@DarrylErickson Canadian issues =/= all of North America.

[@marius100mark]

I'm super happy to see North America finally getting an example case of good public transport 😊 hopefully this will encourage other cities to follow the lead! Living in Berlin, I can only hope more of america understands the benefits of good public transit :)

[@zackgro8440]

North America already has an example case of public transport. It's called New York city where most people don't even live in a household where anyone owns a car. Berlin has higher cars per inhabitants than New York by over 30%. Seems like Berlin should take notes.

[@neolithictransitrevolution427]

I still want to know what the plans are for the Diesel trains, particularly if they are planning on Electronic along the entire LSW Corridor. I would really love to see some knew Go lines opening; Radiating out of Hamilton and creating regional services in Cambridge-Kitchener-Guelph, Niagara region, and around London.

[@williamerazo3921]

Sell them

[@neolithictransitrevolution427]

@@williamerazo3921 In that case I'd still be interested on who is opening a large fleet of passager rail, or several new small passanger rail lines. I would assume its in NA for transport purposes and because they are diesels.

[@Absolute_Zero7]

There are still many lines and services that won't get electrified. The LSE extension to Bowmanville won't be electrified, we have no news on electrification beyond Bramalea on the Kitchener Line (and the government is promising all day service to Kitchener), We have both the Richmond Hill and Milton Lines which won't be electrified at all, with the latter getting a push to all day service relatively soon, and you still have GO train service to Niagara Falls. So no, we aren't going to reach a point where we won't need our diesel locos anytime soon.

[@RMTransit]

Yeah it's not totally clear to me but we shall see

[@mrmaniac3]

Would be nice if they Could be fitted with electrification equipment

[@nicolasblume1046]

EMUs would be much better than loco hauled trains! With that extra fast acceleration they could add additional stations (station spacing is way too long) and STILL have the same travel time as with electric loco hauled trains! Additional stations would be important for better coverage, shorter journeys and more passengers. But I get that reusing the existing passenger cars is a big benefit. So maybe they will upgrade the System to EMUs at a later stage

[@neolithictransitrevolution427]

I agree, Once everything is up and running, they can start adding EMUs and then building new stations, along higher demand corrodors, like the lake shores, and slowly shift the fleet over. Hopefully they will add some new electrified track sections in that time for the locomotive trains to move over to. Spadina Station would be an example of something that could be built.

[@RMTransit]

I totally agree I really want emus

[@denzzlinga]

you could have both. EMUs for trains that stop at every little station in the city, and the locomotive hauled consists for express trains, that run from the suburbs to the city centre with few stops only.

[@Mgameing123]

@@RMTransit tbh EMU's are nice but for airport services bi level trains are better because it will attract alot of tourists to take the train and not to rent a car.

[@benedekhalda-kiss9737]

@@Mgameing123 Bi level EMU like the kiss would be the best then

[@SirRheilffordd]

In my home state of Saxony, Germany there are narrow gauge steam railways wich incorporated into the real transit network of Saxony. To see these historical trains having a real purpose is really cool, so it would be nice if you can do a video about it.

[@daimhaus]

also in the north

[@garryferrington811]

It's so amazing to see! If I was younger (and richer) I would visit Germany just to see that.

[@seadogg0]

also in the Harz Mountains here in Saxony-Anhalt (and Thuringia)

[@aturchomicz821]

Non Carbon neutral locomotives in 2022 D:

[@leonardsandhu5772]

welche ist das?

[@Denden16995]

Here in Denmark we have a well established train system imo, especially the S train but also the regional trains which, the double deckers are hauled by the Siemens Vectron’s operating every 15 min to Helsingør and Roskilde and every 30 min to Ringsted and Næstved, but mind you there are many other electric trains here and we are working on it. (Btw those aren’t all frequencies, there are way more trains than that!) Will be interesting if Canada gets the vectrons! Genuinely excited for the Toronto area!

[@drdewott9154]

If they're gonna reuse bilevels, I just hope they modify them just a tiny bit so that the little step down on the outside is removed and platforms raised a bit to allow for level boarding across the whole train length, like whats seen on the Utah Frontrunner and well... practically every train in Europe.

[@neolithictransitrevolution427]

This is something they couldn't due in the past due to Frieght usage. Now thay metrolinx owns the tracks, they might be able to raise the platforms, particularly on sections inside Toronto. Other sections might still have to allow freight access though.

[@Absolute_Zero7]

That is in the plans yes. They're currently planning for 610mm platforms.

[@shangqijian6655]

While I would like to see the change too, there are some engineering limitations with designing at height platforms. The biggest obstacle I can think of is keeping clearance at curved track platforms. Even at Union station, you see the platforms are not entirely straight and there noticeable Winding back and forth on certain tracks

[@RMTransit]

That's definitely my hope as well

[@drdewott9154]

@@shangqijian6655 Even then if European stations can do it well, so can Toronto. I mean Zurich and Switzerland in general already has loads of stations with curved platforns, including on Zurichs central S bahn corridor, but those still manage to have level boarding

[@claudia700]

Unfortunately the GO continues to be an overpriced way to subsidize car drivers rather than providing an option for non-drivers. Once you get to any of the stops along the GO, you’re stuck in an oversized parking lot and you need a car to go anywhere else. Toronto needs to get more transit so that it doesn’t take over an hour to get from the west to east end if you’re not right on a subway line. Unfortunately funds are not unlimited and this prioritization doesn’t align with the the greatest benefit for the largest number of people.

[@Sp4mMe]

Good stuff. Hope it works out fine and will encourage similar projects across North America. Well, and elsewhere on the globe, as applicable, of course.

[@RMTransit]

I'm super excited

[@almostthere3733]

GO = SLOW. Using the Kitchener/Union corridor it regularly takes twice as long by GO than driving from Kitchener to Union Station into the downtown financial district! Ridership was maxed out prior to Covid. Winn's gov't said the solution was to add another (5th) train morning departure. Who wants to leave for work at 5:20 am? GO needs to turn one of those 5 trains into an EXPRESS train originating in Kitchener, stopping at Guelph, possibly Georgetown, then directly into Union. Currently all 5 departures are a painful milkrun stopping at 13 stations taking 2.5 hours.

[@arhanmenon1526]

The Dresden S-Bahn runs with bilevels and electric locomotives, but they run 4 car trains so they can still have faster acceleration. GO doesn't need to run 12 car trains, because they will be more frequent anyways, giving more capacity.

[@harrisonthorburn7415]

I hope with this they’ll be able to set a date for all-day, two way service on the Kitchener line, which we’ve been promised for a super long time now.

[@Imman1s]

Metrolinx is promising 4x current service levels, all day frequent service for the entire horseshoe region by 2040. Whether they deliver or not is a different story...

[@youtube79z]

@@Imman1s sounds like MoveOntario 2020

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

All-day hourly service to Kitchener is being delivered separately from the main package, with an initial in service date set for September 2023. All that's required for hourly midday service is a new platform at Guelph station and adjustments to the platforms at Georgetown station.

[@PaulFerrer]

@@OntarioTrafficMan Hello. Where did you get this info? This got me really excited!

[@MikeWillSee]

Is it just me or is all of the audio out of sync from 9:38 onwards?

[@moritzl7065]

Is it just me, or is your own audio not synced properly with your recording in the 2nd half? The lip sync feels very awkward!

[@jcmik]

I love to see this kind of ambition and vision! Here's to hoping Philadelphia's simultaneous bus network & regional rail studies give us as much to be enthusiastic for

[@BrianBaileyedtech]

Great video and this gets me excited too. I have lived all around the world and have always thought that Toronto was a really great city but it needed to invest in much better transit to make it truly an Alpha, world class city that it has aspired to be for the past 50 years. This, along with all the construction (#1 in North America for a decade), immigration (fastest growing city and second fastest growing metro in North America for years) and growth as a world-class technology hub (has recently created more tech jobs than Silicon Valley) backed by a huge banking sector is all coming together to create one of the world's top 10 cities. A VERY exciting time!!!!

[@alainterieur4837]

1:53 Wow that's really impressive! Meanwhile in my city in Switzerland (the 5th biggest in the country) we have to put up with 1-hour headways all day, even during rush hour... And people here wonder why our city suffers from gridlock and noise pollution

[@bl5752]

Everything will still be based on going into downtown Toronto to switch lines. This is stupid as it favours committing (which may never return to pervious levels). Why are we not connecting the lines so that you can go to more places?

[@erracht]

When I think of what transit in Toronto was like while I was living there, I am absolutely amazed that somebody got smart and started building all this new rail transit.

[@kevinmohalloran]

Would love to see a deep dive on regional rail in the DC area (MARC & VRE) and how it could expand and add through running. Maryland recently passed a bill that requires MDOT to study and actually make infrastructure improvements that will eventually allow for through running MARC into Virginia. I’ve often thought that both MARC and VRE should just merge and possibly fold into WMATA. MetroRegional perhaps?

[@jw176503]

Thanks for mentioning the MARC (Maryland Area Regional Commuter) Penn Line. However, MARC currently uses diesel-electric locomotives for its trains with a maximum speed of around 80 mph (130 kph). Bringing back electric locomotives for the Penn Line, which runs on the already electrified Amtrak Northeast corridor, would likely trim the 60-minute Baltimore-Washington, DC trip by about 10 minutes. Best wishes for Toronto's GO!

[@DodoGTA]

When will the subway be renamed to U-Bahn? 🐸

[@RMTransit]

Is to be determined but likely shortly

[@Fan652w]

Thanks Reece for an excellent video, and congratulations to the people in Toronto who took the decisions. I (Roger Sexton) would however be slightly cautious with the S-Bahn analogy. GO Expansion is clearly not like the Hamburg or Berlin-S-Bahns, which have very closely spaced stations, and single-deck trains using DC third rail electrification. The Zurich S-Bahn is a better analogy. Almost entirely double-deck trains using overhead AC electrification - stations generally at least 2-3 kms apart. The older 1990 trains have locos, but the newer trains are EMUs. The Zurichers have also seen the importance of level boarding and (belatedly) of having wide platforms at busy stations.

[@offichannelnurnberg5894]

Regensburg bekommt eine S-bahn. Nicht zu vergessen die hannover und magdeburg pseudo s-bahn. Wir haben 3 S Bahnlinien die im Stadtgebiet nicht halten (eine mit nur 2 Stationen) Breisgau fährt mit DMUs. S-Bahn kann alles heißen heutzutage

[@Fan652w]

@@offichannelnurnberg5894 Danke Schoene. Nowadays in the three German-speaking countries (Germany, Austria and Switzerland) the term S-bahn has a very flexible meaning, and is applied to a wide variety of suburban services. Zurich even has express S-bahn trains. In particular there is an S-bahn every 15 minutes from Haupbahnhof to Winterthur taking 20 minutes with two intermediate stops. Inter-City expresses Haupbahnhof to Winterthur go a longer route via the airport and take about 25 minutes!

[@bahnspotterEU]

@@offichannelnurnberg5894 Leider. Das mit Regensburg, Breisgau oder Ulm finde ich lächerlich. Man sollte aufhören alles als "S-Bahn", oder selbst "Regio-S-Bahn" zu vermarkten, das vernichtet nur den Sinn den Bezeichnung. Hannover, Bremen, aber auch Nürnberg, Mittelelbe und Mitteldeutschland verdienen den Titel S-Bahn auch nur zum Teil, wenn überhaupt. Taktfolgen von unter 30-Minuten sind kein S-Bahn Material mehr, und selbst 30 Minuten sind hart an der Schmerzgrenze.

[@offichannelnurnberg5894]

@@bahnspotterEU In Nürnberg ist es eine Mischung. Die S1 und die S2 sind echte S-Bahnen auf eigenen Gleisen (Ausnahme Klinikum-Eltersdorf), die S1 soll auch bald alle 20 Minuten fahren. Die anderen Linien halten an den innenstadtnahen Stationen Dürrenhof, Steinbühl und Rothenburger Straße nicht, obwohl sie dort vorbeifahren, wobei auf der S4 zumindest in Schweinau Umsteigemöglichkeit zur U-Bahn besteht. Das hat seine Gründe: All diese Linien waren einst RB-Linien, die einfach umgetauft wurden. Daher stammt das Auslassen von Halten, was bei der S3 bewusst gemacht wird, bei S4, S5 und S6 jedoch unfreiwillig passiert, weil andere Schienentrassen befahren werden und man keine neuen Bahnsteige baut. (Und auch beim Verstärkerzug der S1, der am Fürther Hauptbahnhof nicht hält.).

[@davidreichert9392]

I've been playing Train Sim 2 for quite a while now, and have been super impressed with all the DB lines and how they are structured and work. Brilliant idea by Mertrolinx to bring them in, I just hope that they let them do their job unhindered.

[@bahnspotterEU]

Eh, that‘s not the greatest resource for judging German rail operations. I suggest you try to experience it in person sometime.

[@davidreichert9392]

@@bahnspotterEU Ture, I mean the game only inspired me to research the German train system as a whole. True, I can't really know until I've experienced it first hand, but I still feel confident in saying that it's a far cry better than what we have here.

[@f4n70]

If it works as it should be it isnt that bad Especialy the LZB upgraded Tracks.

[@justahillbilly7777]

Right from the start your excitement was palpable, and I gotta say, ‘tis nice to see. That’s what’ll draw people in and get them to stick around. Plus, the quality of your videos helps a bit as well. Cheers, and here’s to North American public transit and its continued improvement!!

[@michaelk__]

Hoping more people can experience great public transit at some point and very happy to see that Toronto is actually going to give it that big step in that direction. Hoping it works out and that they do further steps once they are done with this one. Extra Stations, Extra Lines, Expanding Lines, EMUs etc. will help making this a great transit system. And if it's a success, maybe some more cities will actually look at functioning solutions they can have now instead of throwing billions at "high tech" car tunnel taxi services and vacuum tube trains that may eventually, not likely though, be barely better then train for very specific use cases

[@JosseundKuchen]

The word 'S-Bahn' kind of click bated me because I live in Berlin

[@RTSRafnex2]

I don't mean to be rude, but why do main stations in North America always look like a third world marshalling yard? The condition of the tracks and platforms is just sad. I would never imagine that this is the main station of a city of almost three million people. I was already thinking the same thing about Caltrains' San Francisco station the other day. Sometimes I daydream about how modern and clean the stations in America could look if they received the same love they do in Europe or Asia -- or just the same as your airports.

[@brandonbollwark5970]

Can't wait to play "How are NIMBYs gonna ruin this"!

[@bipbipletucha]

Personally I hope and expect to see at least some recently-retired Amtrak ACS-64 electric locomotives purchased by Metrolinx. In Amtrak's NEC equipment replacement plan, dual-mode multiple unit trainsets are set to replace many locomotive hauled services, displacing a huge number of less than 20 year old ACS-64s. GO RER seems like a perfect place for them to work

[@jordondaniels9276]

Your enthusiasm for transportation planning is infectious! Keep it up!

[@toniderdon]

It is insane how many people live in that area and how horrible the public transit is.

[@TheTroyc1982]

Toronto mhas very good public transit though.

[@toniderdon]

@@TheTroyc1982 Not really, not compared to cities around the size of Toronto in Europe. For reference, check out the KZbin channel "Not Just Bikes" he has some videos on the Toronto area

[@Shamsithaca]

WIll Canada ever get a high speed train between Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec City? Japan has had their high speed bullet train since the 1960s! Its 2023 and our trains are still slower than the bullet train in Japan in 1965!

[@Outfrost]

This is the first time I see someone mention getting rid of high platforms as a positive. High platforms provide much more efficient, convenient and accessible boarding, often level boarding if done right. Rolling stock designed for low platforms can still get this benefit - the door steps can either fit between the door and the platform or underneath the platform edge, or (if retractable) simply remain retracted. This works quite well on the Polish EMUs from the last 15 years - at older rural stations, steps and wheelchair ramps are used, while at newer (especially major) stations the doors are level with the platforms and the retractable steps become gap guards.

[@lucasmcgowan6306]

the go expansion is impressive, I would recommend you look at victorias, Australian version of that but a bit different and probably make a video about it, it's called regional rail revival, but yeah great video.

[@michaelritchie5303]

Given the rate of public transit development in the GTA, I assume this is a 60 year plan.

[@MrGoodjava]

Being in Toronto all my life, Toronto is so far behind in rail compared to other major cities. Aside from the fact all these upgrades should have happened 20+ years ago, the thing to remember is CN owns the tracks and priority is given to freight. So unless they build independent track, speed won’t matter if they are stuck waiting for freight.

[@hamanakohamaneko7028]

Reece why did you stop dancing to good news?

[@jcicerone]

One year later and it still takes me 3 hours to transit from Toronto to Niagara…

[@fotonovella]

Can you link to media coverage? I still don't know what happened today (April 21, 2022). You mentioned contracts were signed. I can't find anything on this. What's DB doing specifically?

[@heatherjones6647]

Gosh! Just in time for the election flyers! Plus: I just got my bribe--er, car license rebate!! Ford sure has us voters figured out!

[@meltingtomato]

Metrolinx's blog has also announced recently that they are having ~150-200 coaches undergo overhaul. Those Bi-levels will get new outlets (among other refreshes), and be more akin to the acquisitions from the past decade. These, along with GO's rather new diesel locomotives, will undoubtedly still have a place both for longer distance service to Hamilton (electrification is currently planned to end at Burlington), Kitchener/London, Bloomington, Old Elm, and Bowmanville. There is also the possibility, in due course, that as VIA HFR shifts most service to the northerly corridor, that we might see GO further expand into longer distance services with their existing equipment, if and when EMUs get ordered to displace them from Toronto area services.

[@Brot-o-Typ]

I just really hope that it works out as planned. It sounds great. However, there is a reason why everyone hates Deutsche Bahn in Central/Western Europe. They are well known for unreliability, delays, massive mismanagement, missing deadlines, poor overall services and all that while demanding a hefty price tag. (However, it is not possible to know how much of that is due to lacking support from politics). So i dearly hope for you and everyone in the area, that DB is once able create something which helps to transform mobility and transit of the whole region! Or as i like to say; 2 out of 3 large German speaking countries have great transit. Germany is not one of them. Greetings from Berlin

[@antispiritanimal3467]

The regional trains are doing very well, though...

[@Skyfighter94]

I get that from a German point of view the Deutsche Bahn often feels poor and mismanaged. But compared on an international level German train services are still excellent. The main problems are almost purely based on bad political decisions like not separating high speed, regional and freight services on an infrasctructural level. The Deutsche Bahn AG itself is actually an impressingly modern and well-functioning company that really made quite a transition in the last few years.

[@Brot-o-Typ]

@@antispiritanimal3467 I would love tho think that's true, but i don't think so. At least not in North Rhine-Westphalia and surroundings (so the west). And for sure not in Berlin and eastern Germany. Southern Germany (BaWü and Bavaria) runs reasonably well, but nowhere close to the quality, frequency and reliability to its bordering Austrian and Swiss counterpart. The best train service in BaWü was the single line which is operated by SBB (seehas).

[@faultier1158]

Investment into the rail network per capita is *A LOT* higher in Austria and Switzerland than they are in Germany. That's also a big reason. Conservatives deliberately underfunded it with the goal to get people to buy more cars.

[@offichannelnurnberg5894]

Urteilt nicht über die DB bevor ihr nicht GO erfahren habt und den Torontoer Nahverkehr kennengelernt habt.

[@charlesalexg]

I think this is my favorite video of yours, Go expansion is the most transformative Transit project in Canada. Yes the REM will be gamechanger, but Go electrification is basically the closest to a european train service we will ever get. Looking forward to it! I think that the UPExpress should have some kind of EMU like the Stadler KISS with dual level doors like the Caltrain, but yeah probably Dual mode Siemens Charger or something else. I read about how Siemens is integrating dual mode in the Siemens Charger and it's pretty wild, you have the Diesel Loco, then the next car is a pantograph equipped motor car with a DC connection to the Loco so you have 2 ''power cars'' back to back in Electric mode. Amtrak will benefit from that a lot on the NEC to connect other non electrifed line.

[@Theincredibledrummer]

Why no dancing R in the intro?

[@thisislesbomaya]

"adding higher doors for a separate sub fleet of GO wouldn't make any sense" Caltrain walks into the room HEY I HEARD YOU LIKE TRAINS WITH MULTIPLE DOOR HEIGHTS

[@BruscoTheBoar]

Did you notice green buses in Canada? Public transit is about to come a bit better as Flixbus launched 3 lines in Canada

[@arsx4948]

When are they expected to start work? I like good news but am always cynical to avoid disappointment.

[@____a_]

Why couldn’t they have called it “go forward”

[@timtomch]

Finally! That is super exciting indeed but I hope there will be fare integration as well, so that this infrastructure can be used for efficient inter-city travel without requiring a separate fare as is now the case.

[@glawrence]

There is already co-fare pricing for some municipalities in Ontario. Almost all are using the PRESTO card. TTC is obviously the major exception.

[@youtubeshadowbannedme]

@@glawrence TTC uses Presto

[@TXnine7nine]

The map looks like they're making the same mistake as Chicago. A bunch of relatively straight routes from the suburbs into the downtown core. Nothing to help people go from suburb to suburb to avoid downtown.

[@CanImperator]

Agreed. I wish they would connect the spokes with a loop around the outside

[@gerrycallison2436]

Level boarding would be a significant time saver. I regularly use Amtrak's Michigan trains out of Chicago, which take over twenty minutes to board from ground level, and was blown away by how my sold out Acela out of Washington took only 8.

[@f4n70]

If DB builds this new Network u can except construction cost is up x3 at least 😅

[@IamTheHolypumpkin]

Gratulations from Germany. Interestingly German media leans very slightly negative to the announcement for the obvious reasons, like DB not focusing it core business in Germany. The Green party and the liberal party (both part of the current federal government) commented with the usual concerns. Additionally the Government Accountability Office have fiscal concerns (with all DB business not conducted in Germany). While DB and its subsidiaries are legally an incorporated business with share and such 100% of the shares are hold by the German government. This leads to the awkward situation that in cases GO Regional Rail Expention fails and DB makes a loss the burden will also go to the German tax-payer. If DB makes a loss it would have to take on loans or ask for more tax money. I personally do not share those fiscal concerns for the "Toronto S-Bahn" but I find it important to mention. The projects seem to be relatively risk free in my opinion and if it does make good profits most of the money will flow into Germany to improve service here. I'm optimistic about it.

[@pauly5418]

With the way the contract is structured, I believe, there is much less prospect of a loss. This description of the contract is taken from a press release for this project by Aecon, one of the partners: "The innovative, fully integrated contract begins with a two-year collaborative development phase to finalize the scope, commercial structure, and pricing of various elements of the project, with certain construction and early works activities commencing during this phase. Operations and maintenance are anticipated to commence upon completion of this period, and further information on the contract value and schedule will be disclosed following the development phase." Metrolinx, the agency that operates GO, has learned from recent past contracts, some of which have resulted in higher costs and extended delays. In addition, potential bidders wanted a change to Metrolinx' contract procurement process.

[@Nick-kz6dg]

The next step should be fully integrating GO Transit and Toronto Transit into a TfL-style multi-modal network.

[@openlink9958]

and now Im suscribed, I will be always waiting for your videos breaking down how the progress is going

[@cianmurphy5107]

9:15 "No one is building a regional rail network like this with hydrogen or battery trains" - Ireland actually is, with the expansion of the DART system in Dublin! Not all of the trains in the DART+ programme will be battery powered, but some will, to allow for service beyond electrified sections. Most interestingly, part of the line used by the current DART service used to be served by battery trains (the Drumm Battery Train) in the 1930s!

[@Bahnfanatiker]

RM Transit totally exited how a regional train network is so much faster than a subway Europeans meanwhile: "You don't say" xD But are your hopes for 200km/h trains seriously? I don't exactly know, what also is planned, but the "long lines" you mentioned to Barrie or Hamilton are about 50km. To have a comparison in my home-area in germany, this is about the distance from Dortmund to Duisburg. Especially if the trains also will stop in Burlington, Oakville and Mississauga, they have no chance to reach those 200km/h. And even if they would go nonstop from Hamilton to Toronto, they would just be less than 5min faster, so I don't think, that they'll use 200km/h trains. SO don't expect the trains to be faster than 160km/h

[@bahnspotterEU]

It‘s also completely unnecessary. 160 is perfectly fine as a max speed for regional trains, anything higher over such distances is a waste of energy with little time gained, considering you’d be slowing down again fairly quickly.

[@joeltangjerd2828]

So, it'll be done in 40 years say?

[@carlosocana-morgner9432]

Maybe the Stadler Kiss or the Twindex bi-level trains would be a good vehicle for Toronto.

[@KnightOfKnights]

For the love of god you don't want the Twindex. I think they don't even get produced anymore. They are just always having problems here in northern Germany.

[@RMTransit]

The kiss might be a good option for the future

[@offichannelnurnberg5894]

@@KnightOfKnights They are made for the german loading gauge, to fit our double-decker coaches. They are not real EMUS, the middle carriages are just carriages. Something like this would make sense if you put a motor in those GO bilevel cars and made a pseudo-EMU out of the carriages. But if you buy new rolling stock anyways, you could buy a "real" train in the first place.

[@benhanpeter4790]

Thank you for the obligatory Newark bashing. The hourly headways for the NJTransit service by the airport is already awful. Adding in the monorail makes it that much worse. Living in CT, it is by far the least convenient airport to fly out of.

[@3IS2UR]

too bad Vancouver would never do this cuz the BC gov is a joke lol... GO train should buy Stadler EMU like the ones CalTrain have, but electrication is a good first step...

[@MaidLucy]

This sounds like a Dresden S-Bahn with electric lokomotives and double decker cars! If DB is responsible for signaling, it probably will be ETCS as they have gained a lot of experience fitting german railways with that. It is just an addition to Linienförmigezugbeeinflussung which kind of replaces track side signaling for the most part. At speeds higher than 160km/h, LZB is required!

[@TheDobsonic]

Yup lets rip up a billion dollars spent on the UP and go back to what the public actually wanted in the first place. THAT also is Metrolinx. Dont worry there is still lots of time for this all to be cancelled.

[@mysteriesofsoul]

How long will it take to build? 25 years?! they already cant build a streetcar line within 10 years

[@nicholasciviero7289]

Problem. Kerr Street's grade separation is being held back indefinitely. Can't have that happening when that kind of a headway.

[@RMTransit]

Honestly it's not that big of a deal, there are great crossings this busy in other places though yes it isn't optimal

[@jasonreed7522]

Its still better than the fact I've found multiple instances of unsignaled level crossings in the US northeast. (This is beyond dangerous for any level of train frequency, and all of them were blind/very short sight distances) One was in town on one of the roads to get on the highway from Mainstreet. I get it for exempt tracks but "increased train traffic" and no signals doesn't make me a happy driver. I feel like this shouldn't even be legal, i know in my hometown/area that after several instances of high schoolers dieing this way they mandated signals and gates at all crossings. US train infrastructure is really lacking and it hurts.

[@tonywalters7298]

@@jasonreed7522 i think part of the issue is that railroads have put profit above everthing else and as a result, they skimp out on investments for crossings with improved safety. Though I wonder that with the high frequency of crashes on Brightline that the government may decide to finally step up and do something.

[@Zarrx]

It was already faster from Hamilton to Toronto by train pre-covid during rush hour, at either 7am or 5pm, it is exciting though to hear of fast times. I'd really like an express to London in like sub 2 hours. or even the existing line cut down to 3:20/3:00/2:45. Edit: my text kinda sounded dickish, updated.

[@neolithictransitrevolution427]

I'd love to see that Express go along the CN Dundas line via London-Woodstock-Brantford, and either run into Hamilton, have two services, or stop in Dundas adjacent to Hamilton with the Hamilton LRT extended to the station.

[@RMTransit]

I agree but that's more of a VIA rail issue

[@Zarrx]

@@RMTransit is it because GO is using VIA's rails to London?

[@neolithictransitrevolution427]

@@Zarrx I assume he feels intercity transit is more a Via responsibility and that GO is meant for local transit within a region based off other videos, but I don't mean to put words in his mouth. Since GO is Goverment of Ontario, I would agree with you that GO would fit in great here, and should opperate rail service in other Ontario regions like London, Kitchener, amd Niagara.

[@chaughten]

yay toronto, from mtl!

[@PogodinPavel]

Can someone explain me please, what is that significant difference between an EMU and a locomotive hauled push-pull train? The main disadvantage - the need of locomotive shunting at each terminus is eliminated in both conceptions. Moreover, push-pulls have a nice benefit - they can be used with different types of locomotives, so they are easier to upgrade and they also easier to stay in service in case of some serious technical issue with the locomotive - it can be just temporarily replaced by some spare.

[@TheLonelyLPer]

Yet again Niagara and related areas get shafted 😞 I'm extremely happy about these developments but I'd love to have something similar run to Niagara. It'd be a big boost for Niagara's tourist sector as well with better access for people

[@singhisking4740]

Coming to you in 2077

[@joncalon7508]

I don't see the UP Express becoming loco-hauled. The curves on the Pearson Sub are SUPER Sharp, and likely down to minimums for the DMU's currently in service on the UPX. Switching them over to an EMU design, can totally see that becoming a reality.

[@lvchnkv]

By the time they are done with it, I will probably retire. I am pushing 40, in case anyone wonders.

[@coffeeisgood102]

We have now come full circle from the inter-Urbana in the 1940’s. If the planners of the time would have had the vision to keep those electrics and build on them for the future. We would be further ahead today had they done so. Thankfully the modern planners have the vision and are attempting to make up for lost time.

[@thomasciarlariello3228]

I took a train across Canada, and I remember how toilet commodes flushed excrement onto rail tracks below to cause me to have a summer flu while my mother was catapulted form her bunk.

[@georgehenry76]

GO transit is the worst! Particularly for weekends and holidays. I go from Union station to Barrie South GO regularly. I also live one block from the Bloor GO station, which is useless to me. I have to bypass Bloor GO (which I can see from my balcony), and take two subway trains to get to Union. Then I proceed to take a GO train directly past my home, which doesn’t stop at Bloor GO station (bypasses it for some reason), to Aurora station and wait for a bus that takes an additional hour+. It’s all so convoluted and senseless and exhausting. GO Transit has a long way to ‘go’.. Their announcements are just as meaningless as their current system. They have been making improvement announcements for decades. All GO is, is a suburbanites convenience..

[@alexseguin5245]

So glad the Toronto region is making such great headway in the public transit sphere! Now if only the CAQ government in Québec could do the same instead of pushing that 10 billion dollar 8km tunnel exclusively for cars under the river.

[@tmb4038]

Hi great video!! Will you be also making videos about the progress of construction? :D greets from a german ICE Train driver