It’s Never Turtles All the Way Down | Fate & Fabled

[@Bokkensword]

I really liked the way Terry Pratchett described the great turtle swimming through space time. When you see other great turtles born they are tiny and have tiny elephants and a molten crust ontop of their back. It was really fun. Also, the implication that the gods were drunk when they came up with this model of planet.

[@MLeoDaalder]

I also love the original point and click Discworld game intro "Swimming through an astral plane, never meant to fly".

[@daltongrowley5280]

@@MLeoDaalderthats a really deep cut

[@cupidok2768]

it's a lion turtle that started all

[@chehalem]

GNU Terry Pratchett

[@ecurewitz]

I’m surprised they didn’t bring it up in the video

[@rkozakand]

The local variant of the story in Michigan told by the Ojibwa is that the great turtle is Mackinac Island, and mud was placed on its back to save Nokomis, daughter of the moon, who was thrown off the moon by her father because she had become pregnant by a mortal man. During the time that she spent on earth she had made friends with all the animals. She bore a daughter, who had a son named Manabozho, who was the cultural hero of the Ojibwa people. Longfellow wrote down many of these stories, but unfortunately, decided to change the name Manabozho to Hiawatha. Hiawatha was, in fact, a cultural hero of the Iroquois, and was a completely different person. So the 'Song of Hiawatha', is, in fact, about Manabozho. And also uses a Finnish meter, which seems to be the source of the stereotypical beat that Hollywood uses for Native Americans, DUM-dum-dum-dum. In fact, this beat is NOT used by any Native Americans.

[@Me1le]

Yes the world rests on the back of the world turtle, Great A'Tuin, but the real question is "where is it going?" One theory states that great A'Tuin is moving from the place of Birth to the place of Mating. This is known as the big bang theory.

[@sehidnamrin1521]

lol

[@ladykoiwolfe]

Twas true in the end... fortunately twas not the end.

[@DragonLandlord]

🤔 who's the mate? And what's going to happen when they mate?

[@ladykoiwolfe]

@@DragonLandlord for those answers you should probably read the books, The Color of Magic and The Light Fantastic, both by Terry Pratchett.

[@safiremorningstar]

I remember it vaguely and it was very good I'm talking about the color of magic in the light fantastic and it all has to do with Rinsewind he's a relative of mine... It's family joke.

[@lysan1445]

No mention of Terry Pratchett, who elevated the elephants on the turtle to an art form...🤣🤣🤣

[@arkoudanthrope]

As much as I love these shows, he’s why I almost smashed my phone screen in enthusiasm to start this video :)

[@ladykoiwolfe]

And the fifth elephant that came crashing into the crust to become the great fat deposits at Schmalzberg

[@bluesmcgroove]

I came to the comments sad, then read all the comments happy to see the love for Pratchett

[@Connorisreal]

Same here, I feel better now GNU Terry Pratchett

[@NewMessage]

_Rincewind has left the chat_

[@ecurewitz]

And The Luggage followed him

[@LaughOutLoudRudeeLoop]

Ook

[@victoriaeads6126]

He did leave an annoyed creator with an accidental platypus, though.

[@JosephKeenanisme]

Let's not forget Terry Pratchett's work that took place on the back of a turtle as well :). Rigging up the magical space diving bell to check the sex of the great turtle. You don't see issues like that being addressed in other folklore, apocalypse by snu snu!

[@BrielleMyers-v8c]

I might be wrong about this, but I thought there was a story in India about Shiva and Parvati or Kali or Shakti or another Goddess possibly ending and recreating the world by having 'snu snu'. I remember someone making a "Big Bang theory" joke about it

[@dash-x]

There’s also a cosmic turtle in the Steven king universe. They’re an eternal being that barfed up the cosmos 😹❤️ Those who may only know king from IT, there is a turtle who during one of the battles helps the losers beat pennywise who is also an old creature that is a minor enemy overall.

[@fredericj9514]

What, no mention of Pratchett's Discworld? It's the ultimate world-on-a-turtle myth! ^^

[@ladykoiwolfe]

He did say it was just laying around and didn't look like anyone was using it. But dang he got the model perfect.

[@safiremorningstar]

More than perfect he took it made it from two-dimensional to a multi-dimensional added a universe to it and all kinds of other things and made it perfect and that is why everyone loves Terry Pratchett discworld... And for those of us who might be lucky enough to die and be born a Wii free man we might even come back to the disc.

[@ladykoiwolfe]

@@safiremorningstar ah to be a Nac MacFeegal. Any day I'd take that life waiting to be reborn. I can truly see why they would think they were in heaven.

[@tremorsfan]

There was, for example, the theory that A'Tuin had come from nowhere and would continue at a uniform crawl, or steady gait, into nowhere, for all time. This theory was popular among academics. An alternative, favoured by those of a religious persuasion, was that A'Tuin was crawling from the Birthplace to the Time of Mating, as were all the stars in the sky which were, obviously, also carried by giant turtles. When they arrived they would briefly and passionately mate, for the first and only time, and from that fiery union new turtles would be born to carry a new pattern of worlds. This was known as the Big Bang hypothesis.

[@merlapittman5034]

Fantastic episode, but for me, it would have been even better if you had included a mention of Terry Pratchett and his Discworld. As for the new tattoo, I think it's great!

[@Xhumed]

What's funny, is that I got a Discworld-related tattoo yesterday.

[@tec-jones5445]

I do love the Turtle Island motif! It even inspired me to make my own creatures: Yathwahlaba, turtle/whale/plesiosaurs that grow symbiotes like seagrass on their shells, creating mini worlds for small sea animals.

[@rayledger6836]

Concur with those backing A'Tuin and Pratchett! That's how I learned about our Great Turtle.

[@Queen1001N]

Reminds me of a time I went to a lake and saw a turtle with algae growing on its shell. You could really see where the notion of the earth being a giant turtle may have come from.

[@FlagCutie]

Pairing Dr. M and Dr. Z was a stroke of genius! I'm loving their collaboration!

[@ZachTheZip]

"See the TURTLE of enormous girth! On his shell he holds the earth. His thought is slow but always kind; He holds us all within his mind."

[@Crobinso2508]

You have not forgotten the face of your father. Thankee, sai.

[@turtleofpride4572]

He loves the land, and he loves the sea. He even loves a child like me

[@safiremorningstar]

Very beautiful if you made this up if not then please stage where you have gotten this wonderful little rhyme and where it was in time.

[@ZachTheZip]

@safiremorningstar This little poem comes from Stephen King's The Dark Tower series.

[@rami_ungar_writer]

That turtle myth has inspired everything from Discworld by Terry Pratchett to the cosmic turtle from It by Stephen King.

[@stargatis]

I’ve been desperately wondering where I’ve heard the turtle myth (from It) before😢

[@HotelPapa100]

@@stargatis It took kings genius to make the turtle vomit up the universe...

[@rastatute42]

But not a nod to Pratchett and the Great A'Tuin?!? For SHAME!

[@malfaro3l]

Maturin didn’t make the cut either?!!

[@ekk.hilgeman]

Aw this video is just what I needed! Thank you Dr. Moiya McTier & Dr. Emily Zarka! I have always loved turtles and learning about their mythology has given me so much profound joy!

[@journeyofawesome8473]

I kept thinking about pop cultural refernces like the Lion Turtles in ATLA, or Torterra in Pokemon.

[@Bruhsaurus-Moment]

Terapagos and Torterra lore.

[@brettwood1351]

@@Bruhsaurus-MomentTerapagos does end up with with a turtle, on a bigger turtle on a partial hemisphere for one of it's forms.

[@casandramunoz3731]

I love that the focus of this episode is less about every popular mention of a cosmic turtle and more about how cultures should always be approached with open minds and respect even by frequent visitors.

[@brettgabbitas1852]

You fogot the Trutle in the Room, Terry Pratchett's Discworld.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

2:06 Vishnu giving in charge of Organising Committee at a Pep Rally makes sense

[@Myself-yf5do]

Dreams in mythology would be a good topic for Fate and Fabled. Now that they've done trees, the sun, cats, music, and tricksters, they should do dreams.

[@ninamo3523]

My favorite is the Turtle Shell Lunar Calendar. 13 moons on a turtle shell back with 28 sections all around. -- So cool!!!

[@soulstealer29a]

They are having so much fun with these videos!

[@youremakingprogress144]

Lovely episode! I really enjoy the combination of lighthearted humor and genuinely educational material, and I appreciate the emphasis on always needing to learn more about cultures that we study if we aren't from those cultures and absorbing them from birth.

[@cozmothemagician7243]

So many disappointed fans of the late Sir Pterry here. He really does deserve some mention in the video.

[@Iroxinping]

very first thing i thought of was pratchett....they must be doing a special or a series on humorous/fictional mythology....like pratchett, wilson, gaiman, etc....

[@kellydalstok8900]

Douglas Adams

[@caryeverett8914]

Wack. I always thought the "Turtles all the way down" was a quote from Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels

[@llamatronian101]

I kinda did too, which is odd because he only had the one turtle.

[@BigMamasBaby]

Enjoyed this video as an Indigenous turtle islander 🙌🏾💜💚 but also, an elephant at the top would be super cute 😍 😊

[@rhondahuggins9542]

The Great A'Tuin🐢🐘

[@Beryllahawk]

For everyone hollering about Discworld: remember that there MIGHT be some IP issues that we don't know about. The man himself would've been quite fine with mention and discussion but we don't know if his estate is, and there might not have been time to get a response before this episode's deadline. On top of that, as wonderful as Sir Pratchett and his work is, it's more of a trope on this mythological misunderstanding than a myth of its own. That said - I had no idea Pratchett was nicking a real world phrase or anything, so this was ENTIRELY new information for me. Fascinating, too!

[@rochelle2758]

I don’t think that discussing a work of literature infringes on IP. If that were the case, it would make all literary analysis impossible.

[@georgepayne9381]

The joke I'd heard was that a priest was reading Genesis to the congregation. After mass, a woman came up to the priest and said "That was a nice story, Father, but really the whole world sits on the back of a giant turtle." "Really?" the priest smiled. "And what does the turtle stand on?" "Oh, I know where you're going with this Father, but it's turtles all the way down." And I always took that as a joke and nothing more. I'm amazed there was a story behind this at all. I'll defer to the professionals, because I trust yall did your research, but it's honestly mind blowing to think someone once said "turtles all the way down" earnestly. I guess I can believe the possibility of a preacher using the story to make the local non-Christians look foolish... And why would someone substitute in rocks? That ruins the joke!

[@AnnikaCoyucoCutecats]

This reminds me of Kusu Island near Singapore. The legend about the island’s origin was that it was the transformation of a magic tortoise to save a Malay sailor and a Chinese sailor.

[@OSheaDean]

M1y ref is Terry Pratchett ❤

[@GreatOnion1111]

THE TURTLE MOVES!!!

[@unit1738]

Years ago I went to the VLA in NM, and afterward went to the University Observatory where several of the folks who helped brain think the whole "VLA" into existence were talking about the universe. Behind them, on the white board was a drawing of a disc world on the back of a turtle, on the back of a turtle, on the back of the turtle, all the way down. The text beside it said ""Its Turtles, all the way down" I regret not taking a picture of that.

[@RidireOiche]

It has been more than a few years since I last heard it, but, I've only heard the saying or at least something very similar used as a playful reference to continuing the work of ones forefathers "We're farmers/fishermen/undertakers/shop keepers/barmen/carpenters/cobblers all the way down". A sort of nod or reverance to carry on the work of ones ancestors/family business.

[@bethanysmith5856]

I remember reading this book... i can't remember what it was called , but the people lived on turtle islands that swam through waters with monsters that would attack the people, but the more people lived on a turtle the slower it swam. Some people would act like pirates but each turtle has warriors that have special powers that have items as well. The main character's sister discovered that they were living an odd almost limbo life (they still could have a full life) , this was a 2nd life of people who died as babies and water monsters were a different form of souls needing rebirth. It was interesting but very different and unfortunately I've forgotten more or less half of it so i can't make it make sense. But the main character made a deal with the monsters so they could be reborn into their level of life in return while they wait their turn they protect and feed the turtle. Majority of the people were reluctant to have kids before so theres less burden on their turtle.

[@MusicFangTeaLover]

If I has a dollar for every youtuber that posted a video that talked about a planet being on top a stack of turtles this week I would have 2 dollars. Which isn't a lot but weird it happened twice.

[@ladykoiwolfe]

Wow inflation has even hit that saying, and hit it hard.

[@megan88]

"Sooner or later the turtles will start turning into dragons" Don't know how said that but I love it

[@choryferguson2196]

Well told story, and a truly terrific tattoo with a story and a morality behind it. Well done!

[@turkeybeard2010]

I think it's beacuse turtles have a habit of standing on each other while they sunbathe, and I'm surprised you didn't mention Discworld by Terry Pratchett.

[@lenastorm6280]

Reminds me of Discworld.

[@עומרשרייבר-ל4ר]

Man I love the cocept of islands/worlds turtles. Its just such a fun concept.

[@Gloomdrake]

Sky whales and world turtles are some of my favorite genders

[@jessicajayes8326]

The Turtle Moves!!

[@germanomagnone]

this story of the "island turtle" reminds me a lot of the Vanishing Island, an extraordinary marble fortress built on the back of an enormous turtle that periodically dives to the bottom of the ocean, where the Hand of Midas was hidden. in the 1996 Disney film Aladdin and the King of Thieves

[@amandaoluna8500]

Way to go PBS! And great job you two (and production team)!

[@ponyote]

Your tattoo is art. Art is never wrong. Even my coyote tattoo that looks like a wolf.

[@AveryMilieu]

A childhood favorite of mine - and of both my children - is Yertle the Turtle... Dr Seuss, of course. When I saw thew tat of the pike of turtles, it's what I thought of. Yertle the Turtle lived in a pond...

[@PokhrajRoy.]

5:38 It’s like ‘Miss Congeniality’ and “World Peace”.

[@Mystalix]

Clicked because one of my favorite channels named a video with a book title from the brilliant mind of John Green and the picture reminds me lion turtles. Somehow 3 of the things I am obsessed with gelled together and I'm confused but so happy!!!

[@Mockingbird_Taloa]

My nation has a slightly different version of the Turtle Story (or at least, I grew up hearing this version of the origin of Turtle Island). It runs something like this: Originally, there was no dry ground, and all the animals swam around in the great ocean or flew around in the sky. They knew that Creator was going to make human people soon, and that they would not be able to live in the ocean like they did, or in the air like the birds, but would need solid ground (some of the animals were tired of being wet all the time, too, and also wanted a dry place to rest). They decided if they could get some mud and dry it out, there would be a place for people to live, and somewhere they could go to rest and get dry themselves. Many of the animals tried to dive for clay (yakni billia--literally "earth fat") from the bottom of the ocean, but Luksi (Turtle) was the only one who managed to get all the way down. It was so deep, the effort was immense and they could only bring back a little bit of yakni billia on their shell. When Luksi surfaced, they were dazed and stunned and nearly dead. The animals quickly spread the yakni billia around Luksi's shell & held them up so their back stayed above the water, where Hvshi (the Sun) could shine on it and dry it out before it washed off. As the yakni billia dried, it started growing and spreading--becoming far more than the little handful bravely brought up from the deep with great effort. This became Yakni moma--the whole earth--and we call the part we live on Turtle Island in remembrance of Luksi's great effort. We also call it Turtle Island because Luksi's shell has 13 main plates--just like the year has ~13 moon cycles. There are also usually about 27-29 little plates around the outer rim of Luksi's shell, just like there are 27-29 days in a lunar cycle. How Luksi's shell came to be in so many pieces is another story, but some say when it broke it did so in the way it did it because of cracks that started with the stress of diving so deep--and some say they are the way the clay cracked as it dried under Hvshi. In this way, one could say Luksi & the cracks on their back reflects a connexion between Yakni and Aba (Earth and Heaven) & makes Luksi something of a liminal being.

[@Dorian_sapiens]

Yakoke, thank you for sharing that!

[@ulgenrabishlave4645]

Really happy for this episode which touch on the story of turtle Island! Iroquois and proud✊🏻

[@DanielSprouse]

if Hawking said turtles all the way down, then that's a fine thing to go with, mythology unlocked.

[@ladykoiwolfe]

Hawking had surprising humor.

[@Fetch26291]

Yertle the Turtle knows that 'Turtles all the way down' is a bad idea.

[@emperorchopchop7726]

The story gets told by Carl Sagan in one of the episodes of Cosmos. I'd always assumed that this is the reason so many people today are familiar with it. When a show is seen by over 500 million people the way Cosmos has, the minor points from it tend to stick in the culture.

[@MrMysticphantom]

Chinese mythology also has a great turtle being the guardian on which a `Mountain of Reality` stands upon. You see this referenced left and riught with a lot of chinese and korean fantasy stories

[@andrewkful]

Me: *watching video about the world turtle carrying four to eight elephants on its back and not seeing a single mention of the late Terry Pratchett* ....

[@astrocoastalprocessor]

that sweater has balancing energy 😊 this episode is top notch and my new favorite - thanks everyone! ❤

[@namedjasonc]

This was a great video, both super educational and entertaining! Thanks for sharing!

[@JaguarBrakeNerd]

I see the Terry Pratchett "Discworld" crowd has already joined the comment-section. Thank you @pbsstoried for another great video

[@arirenzi-surprenant]

I’m so happy that she brought up Turtle Island

[@ospididious]

I love how much fun you obviously had making this episode. Keep it up.

[@jammysmears4077]

The Turtle Moves.

[@vilzeit8740]

Can you make an episode about large apex predators, like big cats, wolves and crocodiles, in world mythology and culture? These animals have been feared and revered throughout humanity’s history, inspiring countless gods, creatures and stories.

[@sunderedpsyche4289]

The turtle moves!

[@ladykoiwolfe]

I am disappointed. Pratchett got it right, and was left out?

[@zyxw2000]

I read Green's book "Turtles All the Way Down" a few years ago, not realizing it was a YA novel. I'm 78 and I loved it.

[@mjolnirfan]

I can't believe they did an episode on the world turtle myth and did not mention Terry Pratchett's Discworld, although that series could have an episode all to itself.

[@ceejay3054]

Same! But I'm also wondering who else here has read Yertle the Turtle by Dr Seuss

[@CiaoRooster]

I’ve heard of the Hindu turtle, but never a stack of turtles. I will say that that is a kickass and beautiful tattoo!

[@rishabhchittoria9285]

It might have come from the fact that turtles are often used as a metafore for earth. Slow study. It's also symbolic of muladhar the chakra that roots us to earth according to Indian mythology

[@themoderndaygamer637]

Okay so we can all agree that turtles are amazing and everyone has always thought so because they are so cool and we all wish we could live with our house on our back and just be chill all the time.. also sometimes have brothers who are ninjas

[@weirdkitty07]

This is thus a nod to that 2012 Green novel, and music video, and film. Also.

[@BernardGreenberg]

This is wonderful! As a lifelong computerist, I have always wondered about how to enumerate or address the bottomless array of turtles, e.g., whether they had distinct names, attributes, stories, or ever moved..... At any rate, Dr M is supremely entertaining and charming. _Chapeau!_

[@rueburch2856]

I appreciate that you bring in Geertz. That's where I first heard the idea too (in a linguistic anthropology class back in the 90s).

[@matthewpeterson2917]

The most quality of content

[@cluckcluckchicken]

I love Terry Pratchett too, but this video is clearly about the real world mythology that inspired the turtle symbol. The whole point is that modern westerners (including Pratchett) had a different take on the symbol. Come on guys, HOW are all these comments missing the entire point of the video?!!

[@ecurewitz]

The Turtle moves!

[@AlEcyler]

I don't think I've expressed enough love for your skits. You two are amazing and I love everything about this series.

[@RobinMarks1313]

Everyone forgets about Garmmera. Friend to all children.

[@nacmegfeegle2310]

The Turtle Moves.....

[@rosie5046]

One of the guys in my historical research and writing class brought up the story of Eddy Aikau and "eddy would go" became our "turtles all the way down."

[@poulomi__hari]

The ocean churning episode is multi-layered myth. Its a huge story with various other myths and character origins. But mostly its about how we need to churn good and bad thoughts in our mind to get what we want. When we think logically, the results that come out can be all kinds. The turtle represents patience. The mountain represents calmness. The devas (deities) represents good thoughts. The asuras (demons) represent evil thoughts. The snake which has its head towards the asuras and tail towards the devas represent that evil thoughts can very easily overpower the mind. In the course of churning, several magical beings come out but the most notable ones are 1. The Great Poison- Halahala 2. The God of Medicine, Dhanvantari, holding a chalice of Amrita- the nectar of Immortality 3. The Goddess of wealth and fortune- Laxmi. The gods divide the "Amrita" among themselve while trick the asuras into drinking water instead. [Oldest know Placebo experiment, another one of Vishnu's tricks]. This fiasco represents that no matter what, only feed your good thoughts. The poison Halahala was consumed by Shiva, who is also called "Mahakaal" which literally transmits to Time. So it means, leave it all up to time. Whatever toxic thing that has accumulated inside of you, let it go. Time will take care of it. And lastly, once you balance your mind, Wealth and fortune will naturally come to you.

[@sandradermark8463]

I think of the Discworld and of a certain starter Pokémon...

[@koshareslack]

Love everything you and the PBS family do! Are you taking requests on Vedic mythology because I would love to hear about Vishnu's incarnations as Narasimbha!

[@michielbrand4127]

I like to think of this whole video serving the sole purpose of explaining someone's tattoo

[@infinite5795]

Thanks for depicting the Hindu belief, however Hindus have believed in a round( more like concave or elliptical models) for the last 2500 years ,although the 4500-5000 year old Vedas mention both a elliptical and flat earth. Its also evident in 2600-2800 year old "Sushruta Samhita" aka the Hindu treatise on medicine, where the Hindu doctor/surgeon Sushruta discusses various ailments in various seasons and thereby proposes, a round/curved earth view. Aryabhatta was the ultimate Hindu astronomer in 400-500CE, who finalised and worked extensively on Hindu astrology and astronomy, which is evident in the "Surya Siddhanta" aka the Hindu treatise on astronomy. Many Hindu temples which are older than 1700 years old have depicted an elliptical earth, which shows that this view was already prevalent before Aryabhatta's time. I wrote all this because as a pure Hindu, we don't want to be considered primitive or being flat-earthers and we have had enough of this Abrahamic subjugation and hypocrisy. Even, the elephants represent the 8 traditional Hindu directions as you would even see those elephant names, being inscribed on the gates of the Hindu temples( its a common motif) although we do have specific names for the 8 directions like Aishana for the north-east corner.

[@good7bad13]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of Terry Pratchett seeing the title. Shame no reference in the video. 😭

[@jonahblock]

Turtles all the way down is my favorite Robert sapulski story

[@Mikeztarp]

And yet the turtle moves.

[@mm3fredeluces490]

More turtles myth & legends!

[@mecahhannah]

Awesome as always thanks ❤

[@Elizabeth-tq7qw]

Love the John Green mention!

[@lorenzodicapo6305]

When you mentioned Japan (1:17) I so thought you were going to say Gamera

[@zyxw2000]

I love the humor in the videos of this channel!

[@fodonogue3]

Little correction around 3:40- Not lived- The Haudenosaunee STILL live here.

[@Dorian_sapiens]

Thanks, that stuck out to me, too.

[@mickey9527]

I’m really like the fact that Disney use still use mythology even in sci fi movie! Disney use this mythology in Strange World!

[@setelliott9683]

I must be turtle hopping, because this is the first I've ever heard of it.😅

[@tomjohnson4922]

have to say I have never heard this saying before... I'm somewhat thankful for that.