It's now cheaper to run a Diesel than an EV ! [Must know numbers for EV ownership]

According to the AA it's now cheaper to run a diesel than an EV if you don't have your own charging. In a recent video I talked about the challenges of running an EV if you didn't have your own off-street parking and charging. In this follow up video I respond to some of the questions raised from you and also explain all of the important number you need to know if you are going to buy an EV.
Video Contents
00:00 - 1 million views !
01:28 - Let's start with the logs !
02:08 - Battery Size
03:53 - AC Charging
09:10 - DC Charging
12:31 - Cost of Charging
14:40 - Efficiency
16:27 - Range
21:52 - Power
23:17 - Torque
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[@markwilliams4274]

I drove home from Inverness a journey of 465 miles the car never missed a beat. I filled up with diesel which took me less than 5 minutes before leaving it cost me £75 and when I got home I still had 1/4 of a tank left. I used my car normally without worrying about my range, I had the lights on, AC on, heated wing mirrors/ heated seats/heated rear view screen/ whippers on due to weather conditions,I used the radio most of the way also had the sat nav on some devices plugged in to charge such as mobile phones and a game consolse. We stopped at Tebay for an hour for some food and to rest without the worry of finding a charger for the vehicle before carrying on with our journey. Until I can do the same journey in a EV I will still be driving a diesel.

[@thebeesleybunch157]

I also do a regular trip to Inverness, mine being 621 miles from Devon. On my own I do the trip in one, often over the speed limit? 10.5 hours driving, about 2.5 hours charging/peeing /eating etc I do it in my Kia ENiro 4+ so with a heat pump the heating or air con take less than 1to3 miles of range ? all the other things in car are 12 volt so cost next to nothing, as like a old battery charger toping up the battery from the big battery? I return a 3.5 Kw per Mile and about half the cost of the petrol Kia Sportage we had before. ( I also own 2 Classic BMWs So I am also a petrol head)

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

and poisoning people! well done..

[@johnrhodez6829]

Have 2003 Volvo Estate which tows a caravan also a Leaf as a runabout. Whith the increase in electric prices the Lear is cheaper to run in summer, the diesel in winter. Reason? The heater! In the diesel the heater runs from the wast heat from the engine, in the EV the 3kW comes from the traction battery and that makes the difference.

[@dingopisscreek]

That is exactly the reason that the current ev range are a joke. I'm with you 100%

[@loganlovescarsandmotorcycles]

This is the concern I have with paying per minute to use the EV charger. Spending as much as a tank of fuel but it takes hours to charge.

[@grahamwest1079]

Excellent summary, I'll keep my Defender and pass it on to my daughter when I can no longer climb into it. In that way keeping a car going and maintaining it will be better for the world than churning out new cars.

[@Sami-Nasr]

Good idea but the car will become too expensive to maintain

[@dadsway3611]

I TOTALLY AGREE, WILL BE DOING THE SAME THING.

[@andrewholt3849]

What information in the user’s manual did your loan EV come with? Regarding charging and compatibility of the car’s architecture voltage with fast chargers and the compatibility of supplied leads and the plugs to be compatible with fast chargers like at Goodwood Aerodrome you were at: there were two plug-in areas within the single socket on the charger at Goodwood. The car manufacturers must produce EVs without requiring 3 phase industrial electric systems.

[@JJJJJ269]

I understand what you’re saying, but continuing to burn fossil fuels isn’t the answer. Ev charging will drop again once gas is phased out and people have a chance to switch to alternative methods. I 100% agree tho, I feel we should be converting current ICE cars to electric rather than buying completely new cars as the waste from ice cars will be crazy.

[@cotswoldphotographers]

Totally agree and I’m doing the same. Buying a mini electric for short and local journeys m but keeping my ICE for longer trips and holidays. Definitely not going fully electric!

[@garnetheron4885]

I owned a 2003 Volkswagen Jetta TDI get 50 miles per gallon. It’s been paid for for over 18 years now long time. That car makes so much sense to me and it’s so good that I recently purchased another one that I am also restoring because I’ve become very proficient in maintaining and working on these cars. The high cost of Evies is ridiculous. My diesel Volkswagen, the second one I purchased cost me $1000 to purchase.

[@biffoswilly]

But due to the criminal manufacturer we call Volkswagen the atmosphere is a much dirtier place. No one in Volkswagen has ever been penalised for their criminality and its a total disgrace. I have owned several VW GTI's but NEVER again will I buy Volkwagen or any GERMAN car for that matter. Rogues and criminals the lot of them.

[@graemehird3508]

You can't beat a VW or it's variants.

[@severnsea]

Exactly. And if people REALLY cared about the planet instead of using it as an excuse to buy EVs (although that's what the hype tells them so to a point you can't blame people for being dumb and ignorant), they would buy an old car that will save the equivalent of 70,000 miles of emissions because it's already been built. EVERY old car that is scrapped and replaced with a new EV means tons more emissions that would not have occurred if people ran those cars for another 50000 miles instead of scrapping them. But you've no chance trying to convince the EV brigade of that.

[@Snagglepuss1952]

When Toyota Prius’s and Nissan leafs were the darlings of the eco warriors it was calculated that a diesel car was far more eco friendly over its lifetime allowing for creation and scrapping of the cars. I’m not against them if fact some are quite awesome for instance the Audi e-tron GTS. But I’m just not convinced they are better for the environment. As you noted a pre built car has already had its build carbon paid for. Cheers from NZ

[@AntonAsh88]

Miles per gallon is no information for some people 😅 like me)

[@EddieManning]

Great explanation on EVs. I briefly owned one this year and it was a nightmare charging as no home charger. For now I'll keep my 2.2 litre diesel that can do 600 miles on a 5 minute fill up.

[@Brian-om2hh]

But you *did* actually have a home charger Eddie. There are usually a few in each room in the house.....plus you *have* to sleep, so that would be the ideal time to charge.

[@stulop]

I have more than 20 chargers in my house.

[@Robert-cu9bm]

@@Brian-om2hh They didn't state what sort of house they live in, so it may have not be practical for a 3pin . Then also the 3pin is ridiculous slow.

[@bigfluffytowels]

@@Brian-om2hh there needs to be a change of language as the charger is onboard unless you're lucky enough to have a DC charger installed at home. Anything AC is simply a supply. A supply limited by the phase or the onboard charger. This is part of the confusion and why I scratch my head at PIH 4kW Max plugged into 22kW supply at 48p pkWh when the 7kW is available at 28p.....

[@bigfluffytowels]

Never did I realise I could be this pedantic but that's the EVlife

[@Neofolis]

This is probably an appropriate video to update my EV experience. I bought my EV a Hyundai Kona Electric 64kWh towards the end of July. I do relatively high mileage, but it is evenly spread, so my daily usage is 40-100 miles, rather than having longer, less frequent journeys. Most of my mileage is around town, where EV's are at their most efficient. With that in mind, during the warmer months, I would usually average over 6 miles.kWh and the car would say I had upwards of 350 miles at full charge. It is a very different story in the colder weather with AC on, heated seats, heated steerign wheel, etc. During the recent cold snap, I remember being stuck in traffic, whilst it was -6°C and my car said I was getting 0.4 miles/kWh, which would equate to a total range of 25.6miles. To be fair, I had just started driving, the battery was cold and my average would always end up much higher than that. At that point I had also not had much time to experiment with the AC and see how I could use it most efficiently, so it was just full power, demist and everything on. Having had a little more time to figure things out, it appears that fan speed is probably the biggest draw on power from the AC. My fan has settings from zero to eight and five is the minimum require to keep the windows from misting up. Once I had all of my settings sorted I was tending to average between 2.8 - 3.2 miles/kWh during the coldest weather, so about half the range I was seeing during the summer, although because the car uses historical data to calculate range I never actually saw my reported range drop below 270 miles at full charge. Now, with temperatures back between 5-10°C most of the time, I'm getting around 4 miles/kWh with the same AC settings and with the heated seat and steering wheel on most of the time. Strangely, I've just done a 60 mile round trip on faster A roads and averaged 4.5 miles/kWh. Prior to that my highest recorded average in my journey history was 4.4 miles/kWh on 30th November, which was my normal town driving. This seems counter intuitive, given that EV's are more economical round town, but the reasons are likely to be that today's journey was a single trip, so the battery stayed warm, whereas my normal round town mileage is made up of several shorter journeys. Also today there was no sitting in traffic, which is fine in warmer weather, because there is very little drain on the battery while stationary, but when the AC, etc. are running, there is still quite a lot of drain while stationary. Another thing to bare in mind with the lower economy is that charging will take that much longer, because you will have used a lot more charge for the same mileage. I only use the slowest 2.2kWh charging and during the summer it would take 4-10 hours to recharge 40-100 miles of driving. In the recent cold weather, due to my efficiency being halved, the charging would take twice as long. This could have been a potential issue for me if my mileage was consistently at the higher end, because I would not have had time to fully recharge before the following day. Fortunately, that is an unlikely scenario for me, although there were odd days when the car wasn't fully charged. It also meant that I had to be a lot more careful about doing any extra unexpected journeys. On the whole things are still working out well. I was aware when I bought the car that the colder weather would have this effect, which is why I chose a car that appeared to have much higher range than I would need on a day to day basis. It also helps to allow for the unexpected.

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks for this 👍

[@paulmanners1364]

So in belgium 1kwh is 50 eur cent So 2t eur cent per mile 1 kwh from fossil gen is 750 grm co2 from coal or 650 frpm nat gas In the worst case cold with all acc on my ford is 7 liter per 100 km Best case 4.5

[@timkeeley650]

Great video, I have been enjoying the EV debate (mainly courtesy of utube) for a couple of years now. I run a small petrol engined Volvo XC40 but have two electric bicycles which I love using, are simple to charge and can be pedalled if (they never have) run out of power! My motivation and decision to move to an EV car seems further away than ever as the subsidies get withdrawn and the economic case gets even more questionable. Yes I like to do my bit for the environment but even that is less convincing for the EV on a personal basis. I’ll stick with the small engined petrol car thanks.

[@computerbob06]

Thanks for this info. The prices of the Kona EV are really coming down now (2nd user). Do you know if you can preheat the interior from the battery only as I cannot charge at home (legally)? I was considering a 28kwh Ioniq but for a few thousand more I could get an okay milage '19 or '20 plate Kona with that much bigger battery! We are a 1 car family so it has to do everything and the public chargers here in North Wales aren't great - but thanks to Elon for opening up his Superchargers! I'd love an E-Niro but the prices are a bit higher than the Kona and I'm a Golf driver at the moment but the E-golf has a smaller battery and (not that rapid) rapid charging.

[@Neofolis]

@@computerbob06 My 69 Reg doesn't support the Hyundai app, so I can't pre-heat the battery or do anything else remotely. A colleague at work had a lower spec 21 model, which does support the app, so I'm not exactly sure which model year was first to support it. I find it strange that my 69 plate doesn'y have app support, because the Veloster worked with the app from somewhere around 2013 and it's obviously a more useful feature for an EV, as there is more that an app can do with an EV.

[@clivehaynes2183]

A big factor that needs to be taken into consideration is depreciation. I am retired and do low mileage and run as a daily driver a 42 year old classic car that has no road tax, cheap insurance and possibly little or no depreciation. Good video/info.

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks 👍

[@petersmith2040]

Another big factor that most EV proponents never talk about is the much higher level of EMF (Electro Magnetic Field) radiation inside the cabin of an EV compared to a Petrol/Diesel vehicle. Long term exposure to high EMP radiation can lead to cancer. It’s a price that I’m not willing to pay.

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

@@petersmith2040 do you have a mobile phone by any chance? :)

[@beautgrainger147]

Surely a 42yr classic will be either gaining value, or kind of keeping its value relative to inflation

[@mistag3860]

£1000 for a home charger, more to run expensive than a diesel, and there's the public charging at horrendous rates, and the limited range in the cold. Really sells EVs, how marvelous.

[@rabhaw2327]

I will be keeping my 63 plate C4 115bhp 50 mpg diesel no tax and no problems in the past 8 years since bought, still looks and runs like the day I bought it.

[@blowduke]

Had my lotus for 20 years and does 45 mpg by me keeping it will save the planet more than any EV will ..

[@PetrolPed]

👍

[@jhewitthunt]

Great video Pete. The time and effort you go to making apparently complicated things very simple is really appreciated. I've watched many ev videos from many "youtubers" over the years, and this is by far the best. Top job sir 👍

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks mate 👍

[@stefanogoldoni5059]

IMO this is the best video on this topic available on KZbin. My diesel car is going to become a cuban car and will be restored for the next 30 years (if I live that long).

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks 🙏🏻

[@davidallen6653]

My 2022 ID4 is about 15% of the total operating costs of my 2014 Touareg X TDI (including, tires, maintenance, windshields, wear and tear, etc), charging level 2 at home, occasional DC Fast Charge, charging level 2 at work. At 6750 miles on the ID4, I've saved $1250 in diesel over my TDI. 3.2miles/kWh long term average so far. I burn about 13% battery each leg of my commute, I charge every 2.5 days, maybe one more time over the weekend if I go anywhere. My record all surface streets, same work commute, I reached 4.9miles/kWh. Lead footed, never below 2.8 miles/kWh. With the cold, it takes longer to charge. Coldest it has been here in Phoenix so far this year is 37F. It hasn't been in the deep freeze just yet.

[@theloneranger2101]

Another great & clear informative video from PP. This video shoul be broadcast as a Public Information Film on Ev's. It explained a lot about EV ownership, which I really didn't understand at first, but I better understand now, thanks to PP. You really should have a full time TV program reviewing the Pro and Cons of alternative fuel for vehicles, your presentation is so very professional, I can't fault it, and much better than some I could mention on TV car shows. please keep up the good work PP. 👍

[@stevie007]

Well said 👍

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks mate. That’s 24 years as a technology trainer coming through 😜👍

[@ciupak7932]

You never thought....how much electricity will cost . .and what will happen in case of black outs (gov announced) like in case of water usage during summer ☀️??

[@markgarnett3521]

A good attempt but surprising several points not mentioned. For AC charging, anything above 7kW will need your EV be capable for taking 11 or 22kW. Most now do 11 very few do 22. And you’ll need a type 2 cable with the extra wires (unlike the one he showed at the beginning).

[@markgarnett3521]

DC charging he mentioned 800volt systems can charge faster; true but only if the EVSE (charger) is capable (most are not). Price compared to diesel; very unfair not to mention that most EV owners opt for a discounted night rate, many don’t inflate the day time rate but provide highly discounted night rate, 7.5p is common. For a moderately efficient EV that’s 2.08p per mile for the first journey each day (for those that can charge at home)

[@RJC-_]

This is the first time I've seen or heard the whole quagmire of EV numbers explained in such a clear and concise way. Excellent summary.

[@PetrolPed]

Glad it was helpful!

[@murfmac9197]

most if not all of the charging costs are misleading, it costs way less to run an electric car even if you dont have the driveway charger.

[@richardhowlett9424]

Thank you well explained and informative. Snag is , the more videos I watch, and articles I read, about electric cars the more I’m put off them ! It’s not possible for me to charge at home , like millions of other people in terraced housing, flats, rented accommodation etc , cars will only be for the wealthy with driveways and garages . I enjoy driving , often on a whim, and will always look for alternative routes than the way I’m supposed to go , I will not use satnav , and to consider where I can charge on route is absurd. Breaks are taken at a picturesque spot, not an awful motorway services. Almost all petrol cars will do an easy 400 miles on a 5 minute stop . I’m not tempted to swap my 2.4 Accord for anything electric, even if I had the 50 grand plus needed for something comparable.

[@jimslack1766]

Me too, very well said and sensible and honest👍 !

[@andrewmontague2636]

Very very good video. The charging/ efficiency/range/power nomenclature all explained in a clear and practical way. I run a Skoda Enyaq which I’ve had since July and I’m still learning stuff the whole time. One thing I should add on the subject of cold weather efficiency is yes it reduces a lot especially on short journeys where the battery pack doesn’t get a chance to warm up, but if you’re going a bit further, once you get over about 30 miles and the batteries have warmed up (providing you’re being careful with speed of course), it improves. A tip is to spec heated seats and steering wheel if you can. That way you don’t need to heat the cabin as much as they use less power than the heater. Great vid!

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks Andrew 👍

[@davidbarton7463]

Thank you for this video, I've not considered buying an electric car so didn't know much about the different types of chargers etc and the necessary infrastructure. So I learnt a few things about what you might encounter with EV ownership despite having a background working with aircraft batteries and regular vehicle batteries in the RAF. Nothing I learnt has convinced me to go out and swap my diesel Golf for an EV but it has made me realise just how much I take for granted the 500 mile range and convenience of filling up quickly. This 500 mile range doesn't half in the winter too.

[@PetrolPed]

You’re welcome 👍

[@m0scs]

Excellent video! I'm looking at my first EV possibly MG4 as a company car and have been doing all the learning about range charging cost etc. I currently have a Prius Hybrid (non plug in) for the past 3 years and have averaged 56mpg over 40K miles. MyBIK on an EV will drop to 2 percent from prob what will be 27 percent on a new Hybrid model so this the obvious appeal and will pay for the cost of a home charger in a year. My big issues are range I may need, having to use a rapid charger at much higher cost and being able to get an EV home energy tariff at a reasonable rate. These may give you cheaper overnight charging at 12p per kwh but the day rate is higher than the norm. I'm really not sure if the compromises that have to be made are going to be worth it for me, particularly in winter. Still sat on the fence.

[@tomf4547]

A salesman recently bulshited me that putting the heater on doesent affect range. Must have thought I was stupid.

[@nathansmith7153]

So you continue to trash the planet and produce NOx and particulates.

[@tomf4547]

@@nathansmith7153 good luck in future then when you're priced off the Rd... You will own nothing and be happy. Keep spreading the hysteria 👌

[@lrrromicronpersei8294]

Been saying for ages that’s why fuel prices are still so high at the moment because if the price of fuel was where it should be around £1.20 a ltr but if they did that then it’s cheaper to use petrol or diesel as charging on a public charger would cost more and that goes against what the government want… Also transport companies have been very quiet about the cost of fuel. A few years ago when it was £1.50 a ltr they were up in arms about it… Because they use fuel cards they get it at a reduced cost closer to the price it should be…..

[@1881Gordon]

You make some really interesting points. I totally agree. Some other points to consider: We've already crossed the £2.00 Per lire threshold in 2022. Prices are "quite reasonable"? right now, but over the course of time we will stealthily be right back up there again. This time the backlash wont be so severe as we've already tasted it. 2nd point. I'm seeing a 20p ish difference between diesel and Petrol Per litre. My reckoning is that this gap will widen in a bid to make diesels more and more undesirable.

[@stevechilvers1322]

Excellent video, very CLEAR & CONCISE information around the EV subject. Will help a lot of people understand the various in & out's of EV ownership etc... Keep up the good work.

[@PetrolPed]

Glad it was helpful!

[@onnieraycar]

Just found your channel from Detroit - Excellent! I've been involved with the motor industry for 50 years - During your cost comparison here, you talk about "getting a cup of coffee" while your car charges - For a long charge, you may also decide to get a meal - With petrol, you may or may not choose to do so at a fuel stop, but you are more likely to when charging an EV - To me, it's an oversight to not include these food/beverage costs into total cost of driving - You could apply a 50% discount factor to compensate for choosing to buy food/beverage, but to truly evaluate "all-in" costs, food/bev while waiting should be added - In addition, I have never heard anyone discuss "gross" cost out of a driver's total, after-tax total income budget - That is, I pay about 40% tax for federal, state, social security and hospitalization - Therefore, driving costs are actually a much higher amount because I must first pay income tax on every dollar I keep and spend on driving.

[@phileasfogg3536]

Really good honest video - thank you. There are a couple of important points to add. 1. Not all electric cars can accept 22Kw AC charging (and on some cars it's an option). 2. The charge curve is an important consideration. Manufacturers quote peak charging rates - but this can be misleading because different cars have different charging curves. It's also not possible to conclude that a car with a higher peak charging rate must charge up faster. It's also not correct to state that double the charging speed means half the time eg if you are charging a battery starting with 90% charge, it won't matter if you plug into a 100Kw or 150Kw charger outlet - the car will throttle the charge back anyway. 3. The 20/80% rule is meant for daily use - you can charge your car to 100% for a road trip. Also the 20/80 rule is for lithium batteries. Manufacturers of Ion Phosphate batteries (LFP) recommend charging to 100%, and you should charge to 100% at least once per week.

[@itsbilln2178]

Yes - these are critical points that really ought to be corrected and clarified in a follow up video. The thought of another million or so views of this video with people being told about rapid charging EVs to “full” and working out it will take 2 hours for a 100 kWh battery at a 50 kW charger fills me with horror! This is not an efficient use of the charging network, and is just a waste of everyone’s time which would just lead to even more queues.

[@monk3yboy69]

@itsbillN I assume by your comment you are not an EV driver? Most EV drivers are sensible enough to know you don’t ever try charging your EV to 100% while you are out and about. When it drops to 30% head to a supercharger and top up to 80%. You are on your way in 16 to 20 minutes . The worst I had was this recent spell of cold in the UK where it took 40 minutes to do it.

[@MrAvant123]

I chose to go non-EV last year in favour of a diesel BMW. Glad I did TBO having seen the issues with EV charging over XMAS. My beemer will do 640 miles on a tank at proper UK motorway speeds thank you !

[@leeliftingservicesltdtonyf3463]

Hi, Thankyou so much for this first class video, you have explained all the answers to questions the dealers are 100% hopeless at. Thanks again and Merry Christmas & Happy New Tear.

[@PetrolPed]

You are most welcome

[@drew9312]

Everything you need to know (succinctly) in one video- great job Peter. Merry Christmas to you & yours and thanks for all the great 2022 content.

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks mate and a Merry Christmas to you 👍

[@richardkirby5218]

@@PetrolPed why didn't you mention the special EV owners domestic variable rates (ie Octopus energy) where the cost per kw is 8p making the cost per mile much much lower than the AA report ??

[@DoubleDeckerAnton]

Fantastic video Pete. To the point and telling us everything we need to know about EV ownership.

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks mate and Merry Christmas 🎄

[@SimonOldfield-es4ev]

Great summary of the numbers and how they relate to each other when it comes to EVs. The only thing I thought might be worth covering is the topic of battery life and the impact of different charging regimes on the life of batteries and their longevity and ability to hold a charge for longer.

[@PetrolPed]

Good subject for another video 👍

[@colingregson8653]

Exactly apparently you need to keep the battery between 80% and 20% for optimum battery life !!. Would you want to buy a second hand EV not knowing how the previous Owner has charged the battery ?.

[@salokin1]

@@colingregson8653 Depends how you buy the car, perhaps not sensible to buy privately unless you know the owner. If through a (reputable) proper dealer, they should be able to accurately determine the state of health of the battery.

[@cuebj]

BRILLIANT! I'm talking about sound level. Wife just said to turn it down. Even louder than the adverts I clicked to skip. So many YT essays are recorded at low level so I can hardly hear them. You are clear in volume and enunciation

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks 🙏🏻

[@TheGazza636]

Just subbed the channel. without out doubt the most informative about Ev cars in general im so much more clued up now .Thanks Mr Ped.

[@PetrolPed]

Oh wow thanks mate. Welcome to the channel 👍

[@twig3288]

The refilling time on my 14 year old diesel is about 3-4 minutes and that give me 700 miles of range.

[@KrustyKlown]

Charging Station prices will seek to match the cost of Gas/Diesel .. because they can get away with prices like that. In the USA.. many such stations charge 2-4X the going electric rates.

[@PetrolPed]

👍

[@originalshadowfax]

One of the clearest and unbiased reviews on KZbin, brilliant

[@PetrolPed]

Thank you 🙏🏻

[@boyscott7193]

An excellent no-nonsense summary of the numbers which should be of interest to all drivers, EV or otherwise. Thank you

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks 🙏🏻

[@stevegibbons7452]

Nice one Pete, very enjoyable and informative. I have had an electric car for two years now, it takes a lot of thought regarding range and ensuring the battery isn’t over/under charged and kept between 30 - 80%. We have solar panels so it keeps the cost down considerably. I love driving the car, the power and instant torque is amazing.

[@petetimbrell3527]

Do you have off-street parking or do you live in a terraced street?

[@pauldougall8385]

You really don't have to keep it between 30-80%. Modern batteries have management systems etc.

[@alkaholic4848]

@@pauldougall8385 Management systems that try to keep them between 30 to 80% charge. There's no magic solution here. Lithium batteries charged over 80% or discharged below 30% significantly reduces their lifespan.

[@ian6127]

Even with charging from home a recent 288 mile trip to London cost me £12 more in the EV than it would have in my wife's diesel Fiat 500L!

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

including the congestion and ulez fees? I very much doubt it, unless youre paying like 50p+/unit.

[@marclang7431]

Yes diesel is now about half the price compared to an EV.

[@TheDarrenP]

With all the weight of a EV they also burn through tyres alot quicker

[@whocares264]

really my ev i charge at home off peak at 7.5p per kw....288 miles cost me a total of £5....yes five pounds

[@greendegenerationx]

Fascinating vid ped! Haven't watched a vid of yours in a while (sorry!). Really informative, keep it up and I hope you had a good Christmas

[@PetrolPed]

Welcome back 😜👍

[@badimark2976]

Fantastic summary that was very informative. Also a very nice relaxed voice delivered the video that I really appreciated and helped understand the many terms and facts more easily. Thanks

[@PetrolPed]

Wow, thank you!

[@timorum]

You should mention... in the uk. My EV operating costs in New Zealand are about 10-15% of any ICE

[@techElephant]

Including purchase price?…

[@timorum]

@@techElephant "operating costs"

[@Populas007]

As he says at the start of the video “if you don’t have your own EV charger.” I do and at £5 for around 180 miles I’ll take that over diesel. VW Passat to Hyundai Ioniq I’m quids in Great video 👏👍

[@PetrolPed]

👍

[@dcvariousvids8082]

Another excellent presentation. Thank you and even some humour as well. Have a great new year.

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks, you too!

[@stevenprestwich521]

Excellent video and perfectly explained, i was confused with charging ports AC/DC but you explained it 100% in minutes

[@murrieteacher]

Well done Peter. That was well thought out and explained. I am surprised that people are having difficulties understanding how to protect the battery when we have been the owners of mobile phones and should have been charging them with the same idea of not hammering the battery every time we charge the phone. I would also like to see alarm systems for fire and smoke in the garage. There is always the issue of the Lithium going into run away fire.

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks 🙏🏻

[@pugmanick]

Nice video Ped. I feel like you could also add a few more details. 1. Anyone with an EV, who would expect to charge at home, would likely sign up to an EV plan with their electricity supplier. If you were with Octopus Energy the Octopus Go tariff you could charge at 12p/kWh between 00:30 - 04:30 every night. 2. How about servicing costs? How much is a simple yearly oil change now? On my VW diesel family car, the oil cost £60 alone without filters, cleaners or labour costs. You also save on brake wear, through regen braking. 3. Mechanical reliability. There are no cam-belt changes required. No water pump/fuel pump/injector or alternator failures. I have suffered all of those in my time motoring. No exhaust repairs required. 4. I've also suffered catalytic converter theft. My neighbour has been targeted twice in as many years. I'm sure owning an EV can be trying at times, but I'm beginning to see the benefits, and am looking forward to the day when I can afford to change to one.

[@Brian-om2hh]

You probably wouldn't need to charge every night. Two nights on the trot usually gives my EV a full charge.

[@colin5577]

To be fair, though, if an electric car (or a hybrid) does suffer a significant fault, a lot of the time God himself wouldn’t be able to fix it, and if he could, he’d barely be able to afford it. I’m long-standing friends with the owner of a very busy, high end independent workshop and some of the stories (and there are many) are hair raising.

[@howardboulton-cox7728]

The most informative post I have seen, having now watched a lot of your posts I’m sticking with my diesel BMW. I work for a National company which is just about to begin the change over to full EV vehicles but having looked at the charging networks can see issues. I will keep you updated how this plays out in the near future.

[@PetrolPed]

Interesting 👍

[@prisol]

excellent informative channel Pete. Subscribed !

[@PetrolPed]

Welcome aboard!

[@stuartthomas4836]

Great video. Travelling back home from holiday I charged my ipace to give me 40 miles left when I got home, but doing 70 mph on the motorway it became obvious I wasn’t going to make it, I slowed down to 50mph and got home with more than 40 miles range left.

[@PetrolPed]

Yep 👍

[@SCYorks]

The way the UK is going not surprised in the slightest another 3 year's and I am retiring abroad in Thailand had it with this country. Everything is far to expensive even profits from my business are 25% down on what they were before Brexit and this so called energy crisis that apparently is caused by Russia. It seems we can waste money on benefit scroungers in this country we can keep giving money abroad keep allowing strikes and keep allowing ethnic minorities in the UK and giving them handouts but apparently we have to pay more for everything!!!!

[@PetrolPed]

👍

[@johnbarham7718]

Excellent, very well presented film. Explains lots of questions.

[@PetrolPed]

Many thanks!

[@kmyers5185]

Thank you I've learnt more in the 26 minutes of your video than in years of picking up bits of information from various sources.

[@PetrolPed]

You're very welcome!

[@grahamtricker4103]

Re efficiency: as you say Peter, the most influential factor is miles per charge and the outside temperature plays the card here. Our Renault Zoe in the summer gets a 200 mile range. When the temperature falls in the spring and autumn the range drops to about 150-160 miles. During this cold spell recently the range dropped further down to 120 miles, so thats nearly a 50% reduction in range. What is also not mentioned is with rapid charging, the more rapid charging you put your battery through, the bigger toll it takes on your battery's life, so don't expect it to last very long if your regularly sticking 50Kw to 100Kw into it. Much better to be charging it at home on a 7Kw charger and this should give the battery a much longer life.

[@johnhutchinson635]

I wondered if that was the case, battery degradation is my biggest concern of moving to an EV

[@grahamtricker4103]

@@johnhutchinson635 It is the case. Like any battery, it starts degrading from the day it was made and is made worse by very rapid charging. For every fast charge you should do at least 5-6 normal charges to help equalise the cells. As one of the guys on one of the other youtube channels said months ago, "only buy an EV when you absolutely have too..."

[@PetrolPed]

👍

[@graemecollie9233]

@@grahamtricker4103 It's not quite as simple as that, a lot depends on the architecture of the battery and its capacitance and like engines, not all batteries have the same properties , charge capacity and degradation. Often you will now find that whilst the battery pack is quoted there is a 'usable' % as well, i.e. the non useable part is for systems purposes but also factors in the life cycle degradation. Most higher end EV's now have a 10 year battery performance and integrity warranty. As for your quote from another KZbin channel, I recall the same being said when the switch from leaded to unleaded and when when diesel cars came on the scene, there's always a reticence to change exacerbated this time by hype over the Government 'imposing' this on the people.

[@gazzaman28]

Not all EV are created equal. My BMW i3 has a very good BMS (battery management system) to ensure that the battery doesn't get cooked by charges. These days I do much more 7kw charging than 50kW but for a while it was living on pretty much nothing but 50kW rapid charging practically every day. It's 8yrs old and the battery capacity is no worse than 90% of when it left the factory.

[@stevezodiac491]

I have had a 30 kwhr leaf for nearly 7 years now. I have tried to use it longer distance but the charging infrastructure has always been bad but is getting worse because of the greater car / charger ratio now. I use mine only for journeys within my tethered home charger range and a diesel vehicle ( we have two of 600 and 650 miles range brimmed ) with no anxiety of any kind on long journeys. The leaf has lost 3 battery bars now but even so, for what we use it for will be invaluable for the vast majority of our more local journeys, being charged now at 5 p per kwhr still, going up to 12 p per kwhr in Feb, on overnight charging, on Octopus go. It is very cheap motoring, more so because our car was less than £22k when we bought it with the then £5k gov grant and grant for the dumb charger as well, which i still use. I can charge this smaller battery car even to it's max from empty, within the 4 hour cheap overnight rate. I truly believe that we have the best combination. It is horses for courses as far as I am concerned. We generally both drive the Leaf as a first, cheaper option, saving us a lot of money now. Not only that, having an electric car gives us the right to have Octopus go and we not only use the night time cheap electricity for the leaf, it also allows us to use the high cost washing machine, dish washer and tumble drier in the low electricity price period also. I now also have an eco flow on order, primarily for off grid high consumption ac items when I am in the camper van but I will be charging it overnight also and using it during the day at home as well, to limit consumption of electricity at the 40 p day rate after feb ( 12.89 p per kwhr now ) As far as gas is concerned, I like you am getting a wood burning stove. I have a farmer in the family, who gets 25 pallets a week delivered, who just burns them in the field. I know where they are going to be burnt in the future, to emeliarate the cost of my gas consumed on the central heating.

[@AndY1ksi]

I'm glad I've kept my 2012 Opel Ampera (Chevy Volt) and have not gone fully electric. With today's prices it's cheaper to drive on gas than charge it at public charger. Charging at home is still cheaper than gas, but charging at public stations is more expensive than gas. So it's cheaper to drive on gas, when the battery gets empty than to public charge. By the way, Switzerland is looking to ban EVs in winter time, since there won't be enough electricity to go around.

[@thetruthwillwinoneday]

I could not dream of being able to run my life and business with a EV. It’s just not possible, we need a mix of fuels for our transport. My recycled diesel is far more environmentally friendly than a new EV and can do everything i ask of it, refuelled to 600 miles range in a few minutes. I can find a PHEV to do the job but looking at the emissions they produce it is far worse than my diesel. This country has gone nuts. EV’s have a place but so do others, banning petrol and diesel is the most stupid thing to do. Your math will be altered if you turn your heater on or in cold weather. Still for shorter journeys EV’s have a place, I just can’t see my customers paying me to sit and drink coffee for 2-4 hours a day waiting for the car to charge. I would go out of business. Great video…👍👍

[@jonathanreed2245]

Great video and good explanation to anyone thinking of buying an EV. On a personal level I will not be joining the EV revolution for another couple of years. The reasons being :- 1/ current pricing of a new EV is much too high , 2/ there’s not really any tested data on residual resale values, 3 / what is the real life of the batteries on an EV I.e will these become like old apple iPhones and not hold the charge as long and what would be the cost of maintenance, and 4 / you mentioned it already and that is tax, which initially part of the attraction of moving to an EV. Thanks as ever for a great insight.

[@PetrolPed]

My pleasure 👍

[@neilmaddox8745]

I had a Leaf24 bought for £9500 in 2018 traded in this year 2022 for £7500 . No road tax for 4 years my old car was £250 a year tax, most of my charging was on the free chargers. So realistically I have saved £1300 a year on fuel so them 4 years £6000+ in savings.

[@junkeewu]

@@neilmaddox8745 i agee, but many EV drivers are obsessed by those numbers what you say, trying to maximize the proof of an owning an EV. In a conventional car u don't care so much. just how good its, comfort, and liability. resale value its also a strong nightmare soon for EV. not all of us are rich to throw away a whole car.

[@electricvehiclelife]

That was really well explained and some new EV owners don't realise the difference between AC and DC charging. The only thing I would have liked to have seen is a bit more explanation of the charging curve for DC charging. You mentioned it a little bit later in the video and the 20 to 80% thing. Personally, if I am on a long journey I will charge it at home to 100% and the lowest I have been when I have got to a charger is 7% and I don't think that is an issue. I usually then charge to anywhere between 80 and 90% depending when the charge rate starts to drop and that is different for each car so you can't really put a % on it. The charge rate on a rapid charger can drop to less than the speed of an AC charger which I don't think some drivers realise.

[@PetrolPed]

I struggled to get it all in. I think another video on charge curves and optimum charging is needed in the new year 👍

[@trevorberridge6079]

When the battery is above 85% I've seen Rapid chargers drop to speeds lower than a 7kw destination charger. These things are all nuanced. People who compare broad conditions to each other won't get accurate results. You have to compare like for like. For example, a car with only 90 miles of range may take an hour to fill from 5%. A car with 300 miles of range would only have to top up to 30% to get 90 miles of range and therefore should not experience any reduction in charging rate. The two cars will acquire 90 miles at very different speeds even if the charger was rated at the same level and both cars could accommodate the charger's maximum speed. The Devil is in the detail.

[@maxtorque2277]

DC charging will never drop BELOW the equivalent rate of AC charging because the maximum battery charging current is calculated independantly of source! The maximum battery current is calculated by the battery management system based on a large number of parameters (most important are State Of Charge (SoC) and maximum battery cell temperature (Tbatmax). That maximum limit is continously sent to th charging control strategy and is used to limit the maximum charging current from any source to under that value. Realistically even at 7kW max charge current is unlikely to be limited for AC charging until very high SoC values as the current is really quite low (eg 7kW at 350Vnom is 20 amps, which is 0.3C for a 60kWh battery pack) AC charging limitation is actually much more likely to be simply to allow cell voltage balancing enough time to occur, and this is pretty in-frequent with a healthy battery pack

[@johnwaga3702]

What a brilliant summary - thank you so much!

[@PetrolPed]

You're very welcome!

[@pete-c]

Brilliant explained and clarified a lot, thanks for sharing 👍

[@PetrolPed]

Glad it was helpful!

[@MrSheymie]

A few modern small engined petrol cars get similar efficiencies to a very frugal diesel car, so these will make sense for a lot of people too. Thank you for your very helpful video.

[@PetrolPed]

Great point!

[@jeta1f35]

@@PetrolPed Indeed, a very good point. And with the ICE fuel price differential stacked heavily in favour of petrol (for now) this point is even more relevant. I've just swapped from a 12 year old C class diesel to a 3 year old petrol Honda Jazz, both auto's. The Jazz (not turbo, not hybrid) appears to run on fresh air, fuel economy is brilliant !! My priority is running costs, the Jazz is an absolute winner and it is a versatile little car to boot !!

[@sydjaguar]

You are probably correct.

[@trevorberridge6079]

@@jeta1f35 The Honda Jazz was claimed to achieve 60mpg but in some tests it came out at 73mpg. Still more expensive than an EV, especially a 'free charging for life' Tesla.

[@dfor50]

@@trevorberridge6079 But Tesla is not a typical EV deal and is not agood comparison. Isn't this video about diesel now being cheaper than EV?

[@merpscovell]

Excellent video, well done. I would dare to suggest that when comparing combustion engined cars to electric it would be helpful to compare available thrust at the driving wheels divided by vehicle weight relative to road speed rather than specific power and torque figures. Add this data to measured mileage per kWh charge input would give a much better comparison.

[@PetrolPed]

Great suggestion!

[@michaelgolf6941]

Brilliant explanation of EVs & charging. Keep up the good work.

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks, will do!

[@craigevans6981]

Very good. As someone that has just ordered (possibly) my last diesel (FPace D300 following your review) I have not been looking forward to being forced into an EV. This video made me feel slightly more enthused and maybe in 4 years or so time the infrastructure will be better! Keep up the good work.

[@PetrolPed]

👍

[@chrisdakin7941]

Great stuff m8. A number of things I would like to add. Firstly, a lot of utility providers give significant reduction on charging during the night/morning. I am currently paying 7.5p per kilowatt hour from 12.30 to 4.30 am. so I can put 28kws into my ev from a 7kwh charger = £2.10 = 21%. I have also had solar installed and can produce 5kwph in the summer and intend to set up free ev charging to local ev owners in my road during excess production days.

[@PetrolPed]

Nice 👍

[@teamJJontour]

Just to clarify I assume the solar panels were foc otherwise I fail to see how it’s free charging

[@simongibbs3936]

Yeah Octopus Go has been great but cheap rate is now up at 12p/kWh with the rest of the day at 44.35p/kWh. I think the standing charge is also up with the highest tariff option.

[@chrisdakin7941]

@@teamJJontour if you live in my neighbourhood and need to charge your car on my excess solar its free. I cannot say it any differently.

[@chrisdakin7941]

@@simongibbs3936 👍 I'm still on the old rate till May. But now have solar so not a problem when it goes to new rate. Very fortunate.

[@timwillcox5456]

Compliments the first so well and covered everything. Thanks for these videos, they are great. Only 2 things I would add based on my experience. Charge rates, I’ve seen one or two public charge points with rates now over £1/kw 😮. Other thing is that I sometimes find people park in charge points which can be annoying and cause significant delays from time to time. Otherwise brilliant video and anyone thinking of buying electric has to watch this!

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks Tim. Yeah I paid 75p/kWh the other week and nearly passed out 😂

[@timwillcox5456]

@@PetrolPed 😂

[@stippolyte]

So called 'Iceing' is a big thing in US so I'm told, usually by pickup owners. seen a couple of YT vids with a Tesla slowly dragging an F150 or Ram out the way (don't know if a set up or not) but just funny to watch.

[@faisalfaruque2849]

Look into Elli and their subscription packages. The free ones give you a slight discount, all the way upto the £12.99 package for which ionity is .29 per kwh and DC charging is .35p

[@keithhobbs1]

Tesco were doing free charging via pod point until recently. Think my local one is now charging 28p a unit so cheaper than a single rate domestic price guarantee at the moment.....

[@andrewclingan4052]

The best overall description of ev technology and ownership, I've seen by anyone. Thank you

[@PetrolPed]

Oh wow thanks 🙏🏻

[@spence22]

Great synopsis. I did my homework before taking delivery of my M3 RWD this year and your explainations reinforced my understanding.

[@PetrolPed]

Glad it helped!

[@LarsDennert]

Great video. As a side note, 2 pin plugs in the USA is a thing of 50 years ago at best. Our hundred year old house has a couple but a ground electrode is common. Also, all homes have single phase 240V service, however electric company transformers also supply a split phase neutral to each home that allows for 110v to be utilized. Home AC charging to 12kw (50A) is not unusual.

[@PetrolPed]

Out adapter plugs for the US only have 2 pins 👍

[@severnsea3924]

There are many US videos on YT that only mention and show a 2-pin plug. I'm aware that 240v is possible but my understanding is that it's 110v that's commonly used. All appliances made for the US seem to be 110v.

[@LarsDennert]

@@PetrolPed um what? You mean like an adapter to plug your shaver in or something? That's your metric for the US power grid? Electric stoves, water heaters, clothes dryers, central air conditioning, arc welders, RV hookups, pool and spa pumps all require 240v. Most commercial areas have 3 phase.

[@PetrolPed]

If I travel to the US I need to use an adapter to convert our 3 pins plugs to fit into your domestic sockets. They have just two pins 👍

[@HillOrStream]

@@PetrolPed Yup. Intended for nonmetallic low power items. Things like a table lamp or a wall wart will likely only have two pins. Also 110 is a thing of the 1950s too, 120 has long been the standard, usually pushing 125. We have standard outlets for 240V items like a range or dryer, the newer ones have four blades. Search NEMA electrical...

[@MrSpr123]

Fantastic informative video. Very helpful in helping to understand the confusing world of ev vehicles. One of my concerns is the cost of a replacement battery being more than the value of the car. Plus how recyclable are the battery packs? Still so many questions that need resolving before many people will be happier buying / driving an ev.

[@PetrolPed]

Hopefully a video on that coming in the new year 👍

[@bbbf09]

Batteries are typically warrantied to 8 years or 120,000 miles (some up to 150,000 mile). There are ow plenty of Teslas out there with 10 year old batteries and half million miles clocked up - and still going. They don't just stop working - they just tend to slowly lose capacity. It's likely you will ultimately make it 250k miles and lose maybe 15 to 20% capacity on new. But for avergae brit that 20 years or more of motoring. Cost to replace is about £10k - but thats not far off cost of new replacement engine in car. How many cars do you know whose engine have reached 250k miles? Myself I have now driven 70k miles and noticed no capccity loss. Suffice to say the precise temperature controlled long life batteries in EVs are not the expereince you get from mobile phones (which is what most people have experience of) - not even close.

[@mikejf4377]

Great info and you did a great job explaining all of it.😊

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks so much!

[@shahsheikh541]

Thank you for posting, very informative.

[@PetrolPed]

Glad it was helpful!

[@sandersson2813]

The running costs are not the issue, it's the initial outlay or higher monthly lease costs which make the difference.

[@mabsbry1318]

It’s both and it’s all of it combined. How did U.K. Gov, nee a certain Johnson, think that 24 million homes in the U.K. could or would have private electric charging capabilities? IMHO, it’s incredible the Gov can even think of pushing EV when, guessing, probably 60-70% of these 24m homes won’t be able to have private charging….how can leaders of Gov push EV but not understand how awkward and expensive this is going to be. I suspect the car manufacturers know this hence why they are only making hyper expensive models for the rich and swanky folk!

[@gorviv529]

Professor Ped, thanks as always for the knowledge. Diesels seems very popular and prevalent in Europe and Asia, but customer diesel cars seem so rare here in the US. I read that it was because they're expensive to build and, therefore, expensive to purchase. But considering the benefits of range, are there other reasons why they're not supported more in the US to your knowledge? Also, how long do you think it will be before we get non-luxury EVs with range numbers that will get petrolheads more open to purchasing them? I really don't want one, and even if I did I think the only options with worthwhile range are too expensive. Keep up the great work, and stay warm.

[@kenzohkw]

The US historically had very low fuel prices unlike here in Europe so there was no financial gain to be had from owning a diesel so therefore no market for diesels when unleaded was so cheap.

[@del4668]

MPG & we get taxed to the hilt on fuel. Also a short while ago they made diesels annual tax cheaper than petrol cars. They claimed diesel was better for the environment than petrol and increased the annual tax on petrol cars. Manufacturers stopped producing new petrol cars as people moved to diesel, so in the UK at least you only really find tiny cars powered by petrol, anything bigger is normally always diesel. Now they have decided that diesel is bad so we have to buy electric cars to save the polar bears or something.

[@neilgorman5025]

Wow! What an excellent explanation, on costs to run an EV. Enough said, like when I commented on your towing a caravan video, I for one will be staying on diesel for as long as I possibly can! The car I have is fully paid for, something I couldn't do with a EV, it will also, probably last for many more years, before needing expensive repairs, like replacing the battery, Also just covered 368 miles over this weekend, only took 5 minutes to fill up, still has half a tank left, and I've been able to be as warm as toast all the time I was driving in very cold weather, with all the electric creature comforts, and safe driving aids on, like heated windows, mirrors, Satellite navigation and the like!

[@PetrolPed]

👍

[@randygoldberg1507]

Great video. I'll share with friends and colleagues.

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks 👍

[@markringrose230]

An excellent follow-up, thank you. I would be interested to hear your views on the various hybrid powered cars now available. There are so many options and the price (like with fully electric vehicles) varies significantly. For example: mild hybrid (usually self-charging but not all I think), plug-in hybrid, which seem to make sense if most of your journeys are short AND you have your own charger. Then odd-balls like the possibly quirky but innovative BMW i3, which has sadly ceased production in 2022. This offered a fully-electric and a diesel self-charging range extender model. Another important question will be servicing costs. Fully electric cars have no ICE, so that eliminates a lot of oily bits. But what is a typical service like for a fully electric vehicle? And for hybrids, they have the best, but also the "worst" of both worlds. They have an electric motor, battery and an ICE - what's the service schedule and maintenance like for these? Then there's the re-sale value - I am not sure if the depreciation of electric and hybrid vehicles is similar to what we were used to for ICE cars pre-pandemic, prior to all the global supply issues. The tricky part with this is that electric-powered car technology is still evolving, which I think would make depreciation on older electric vehicles slightly higher because the newer models, one hopes, would use newer and more efficient technology. There is so much to discuss! Thanks again for tackling the serious questions about costs of modern motoring. I am sticking with my 1 x diesel and 1 x petrol runabout for now, but keep looking for reasons to justify a new car 🙂

[@Brian-om2hh]

Mark, some plug-in hybrids are capable of travelling 30+ miles on battery alone, and they will also run at main road and motorway speeds on battery, which a mild (self charging) hybrid will not. So, if your daily commute was 20 miles or so, you could at least get to work for a fraction of the cost of using petrol or diesel. But as Ped points out, the crucial part is having your own home charger, as this drastically reduces the cost of charging, along with your per mile costs...... EV depreciation and residual values are so far holding up extremely well. I saw a 5 year old 17 reg Hyundai Ioniq up for sale not long ago. The car was offered with a full service history, and was extremely clean and tidy, both inside and out. It had covered 90k miles, but certainly didn't look any worse for it. The dealer who was offering the car did a full battery check while the video was rolling, using professional EV battery test gear. The result came back as the battery having 93% SOH (state of health). The car sold in just a few days for £15k....... I can't imagine many 5 year old 90k mile petrol Astras or Focuses selling for £15k.....

[@salokin1]

Cheaper servicing every two years is typical for EVs.

[@speedym8173]

Cracking video - really clear explanations! Re your previous EV video - is it really true to say that the majority of EV journeys are fuelled by cars charged at home? Will that change with increased EV uptake?

[@PetrolPed]

Yes. Well over 80% 👍

[@Brian-om2hh]

I would imagine a majority of EV purchases or acquisitions are driven by the fact it is far more convenient - and considerably cheaper - to charge at home of an off-peak EV tariff. And with the average UK daily commute being 20.8 miles, it makes even more sense.

[@rozanneandmalcolmtreger1892]

This episode was brilliant. I am buying my first EV and it now makes it easier to talk the talk✔️. Love your episodes and don’t worry about dumbing it down, I am good scientist and struggled to get EV lingo.

[@Anonymous-ib8so]

What a mistake to make. EVs are a massive con trick. They make no difference to climate change, in fact probably accelarte it due to the new mines being dug to get the lithium

[@davidmain3]

Very informative, thanks!

[@PetrolPed]

You're welcome!

[@geroutathat]

It should be noted, that there were 2-6 hour waiting times at tesla chargers over christmas. If it takes 12 hours to charge at home, but 30 minutes at a tesla charger, then waiting 6 hours if youre low might be your only choice. So because rapid chargers are rare, they usualy have a waiting time to use them.

[@malph9216]

Good video Pete.....However, all it's done is confirm my doubts about EV ownership. There are just too many variables to driving these things. I own a 21 plate RSQ3, just the right size, range and performance for my needs. In order to get the same 360 to 400 miles I get on a tank, I would need to buy a larger EV because of the battery size I would need to give an equivalent range....and that depends on the weather and if I want to stay warm and get somewhere quickly. When my RS's tank is empty, it will take me 5 minutes, every time, to fill from a standard pump with one type of 'connector'. The EV? I would have no idea how long it will take to charge because it would depend on what charge rate is available and if there's one free.......but at least an hour (just hanging around). I don't do many miles, but a vast majority of those I do, are long motorway round trips of about 300 miles once a month, and I just need to refuel on the next supermarket run. Home charging would help, but if I'd just plugged my 'empty' EV in at home and then needed it in a hurry, it's of no use at a all. There's nothing to convince me that an EV is a good investment for my needs now or in the future.

[@jimf4748]

I think you are panicking too much. Most EV's can do over 200 miles on a charge and I would imagine in 300 miles you would need to stop for a coffee or loo break. During your 20 minute coffee break the car would have more than enough range to complete the 300 mile journey. EV's are much nicer to drive and you would be much more relaxed and the journey would be much kinder to the environment. I've had an EV for three years and wouldn't go back especially in this cold weather, when I preheat from home and go into a nice warm car with heated seats and steering while on while neighbours are still scrapping theirs.

[@malph9216]

@@jimf4748 It's 150 miles each way to see our little Granddaughter for the day. No charging available at their house. I'd rather have the charging time with my family than sat around at a charger. Kinder to the environment? Very debatable!

[@davidperry3531]

@@jimf4748 A RSQ3 is a better drive than any lardy EV.

[@malph9216]

@@davidperry3531 So true and it sounds great!

[@scollyutube]

Spot on. An RS3 in my country is only 10% more than a gt line Kia EV6, which is slower, drives like an SUV, and has an awful interior. Price proposition gets even better when Kia is compared to an AWD 310hp Formentor which is 2/3rds the cost too!

[@heartofcinema3454]

Very clear, just got my Q4 E-tron after 18 month wait and really needed this.

[@PetrolPed]

Great 👍

[@dingopisscreek]

Here is a challenge - make a video that even slightly convinces me to buy an ev. But bearing in mind I'm 70 it is going to be an uphill challenge 👍. 3 speed charging, only one speed petrol, diesel and no need for an app 👍👍

[@Dr.SkullScience77]

Very informative. Thumbs up from me. One thing I didn't hear you mention, but may be worth covering, is that I believe most EV manufacturers now advise against frequent use of rapid chargers when taking the lifespan of the battery into account, especially if you intend to own the vehicle long term. Thoughts? 🤔

[@PetrolPed]

Video on this coming soon 👍

[@Antiguan_Dart]

I look forward to Petrol Peds video. But modern day EV’s have very sophisticated battery management from cooling and heating of the battery during driving and charging to battery pre-conditioning when a DC charger destination is entered into the Sat Nav, and user settings for maximum state of charge when AC or DC charging. Battery condition of early Teslas which were sold with free rapid public charging and early Nissan Leaf which had no battery management and very low maximum charging speeds provide long term evidence which shows battery temperature management is probably the single most important factor for prolonged battery health rather than routine slow or fast charging! Some EV which can change at close to 250 kW will typically automatically reduce the charge rate along with temperature management to protect the battery - when higher States of Charge are reached a Hyundai Group E-GMP platform vehicle above 80% or 90% state of charge on a 350kW charger may at that point only be drawing electricity equivalent to if it was on a 7.4kW home wall box!

[@martingadsby3934]

I owned a Skoda enyaq 80x, (now returned) 300 miles in summer, 160 in winter. Drove like a granny, didn’t use the heater. Cost about £15 to charge at home… but also cost over £600 per month to buy with a big deposit which most reviews forget to mention is the purchase price is normally many £1000’s more. Given that fuel and electricity costs are getting closer I don’t think EV cars are much cheaper and I also found less convenient than ice. It’s a hard choice but for my larger mileages I’m going to try self charging hybrid petrol, though I have had diesel for years now. Another problem I found was lack of (useable) chargers - due to breakage and the increase of EV take-up….. the discussion continues.

[@aralevonian8391]

Excellent explanation, I now understand EV numbers better, thank you

[@PetrolPed]

Glad it helped!

[@stevegouldstone7478]

Thanks - I learnt a lot about EVs here. Plus, how nice to see a motoring pundit who looks at the *road* while they are driving! So many KZbinrs just keep staring at the camera for what seems like most of the time (the viewer can see you're driving - tney're not going to be offended!). Good to see somone doing this safely - and what a relaxing video to watch because of it.

[@PetrolPed]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Bmwm340i]

Hi ped. Excellent vlogs as always. I’m one of those who will probably never buy a electric car. Can’t quite get the idea of waiting in a supermarket car park for however long, but each to there own. But here’s a thing. I was watching a couple mid twenties with a bmw ix3 on charge in a local supermarket car park. Both dressed nice clothes ect. The chap unplugged his car from the charging point and proceeded to fight with the 10 ft snake of a cable and also got his hands hoodie tracksuit bottoms covered in all sorts of gubbins off the car park floor. Why can’t the manufacturers or theses electric cars have a retractable cable so it’s never won the floor and stores neatly inside the flap where you charge. It would save a lot of faffing and getting ya hands clothes dirtied up. Love ya thought’s on it. Happy new year 👍👍👍

[@PetrolPed]

Those cables can be a nightmare 😂

[@murfmac9197]

the DC chargers have cables attached, but they aren't retractable as many of the higher powered cables are liquid cooled . If the cable is being detached at both ends and the person is taking it with them then these are AC chargers (same as home at 7kw sometime 22kw), and to be honest unless they're free and your going for dinner and the cinema for quite a few hours then they're not worth the hassle for 1 hour in Tesco to put 7 kwh in your car!

[@spacecadetrik21]

I switched from a diesel to a small EV after the number of days I need to be in work changed to 2-3 per week. I went for something small and low cost to see if I could live with public charging. It turns out I can and will likely buy something with a larger battery soon. Probably the MG4 long range. In terms of cost it really depends what prices for public charging the AA are working off. I am in Scotland and with Chargeplace Scotland we have many 7kw, 22kw and a few 50kw chargers that are still free to use. However outside of those the cost ranges usually from 16p/kwh to 35p/kwh. So cost here is definitely lower than driving a fossil fuel vehicle. My monthly bill is usually £20-25.

[@landzw]

But you overpaid many thousands for the EV version over the fossil fuel version. Your car will also lose more depreciation the closer you get to the end of life for your battery as this will cost you or the next owner anything around 8 to 10k for a new battery. The maths don’t seem to workout in the long run. Not to mention here in the UK over the last 10 years petrol went up roughly 1.5x and electricity 5x

[@bobbydazzler8620]

Really enjoyed this video very interesting and informative Such much so I think it deserves a subscription Happy New Year 🥳 🎉

[@PetrolPed]

Oh wow thanks for the sub and welcome to the channel 👍

[@markmiller5577]

Concise,what an excellent communicator.

[@PetrolPed]

Thank You 🙏🏻

[@beauthestdane]

It is actually a 3 pin for the US, believe it or not, most all outlets here in the US have a ground pin in addition to the standard two for power. A lot of household items only use 2 of the pins, but many use all 3, including, based on images, the Ford Mach-e charger.

[@PetrolPed]

Ah thanks for that 👍

[@andrewgrimshaw5180]

This is the best summary for EVs I’ve watched. For me, they are not the future unless the infrastructure significantly improves and the range improves. I also read that, to protect the batteries you should never fully charge them and never let them go below 20% of charge meaning you are only using 60% of the battery. I tow a large caravan with my Volvo XC60 2.4 diesel. The last trip was around 330 miles which we did on one tank of fuel with a couple of stops just to stretch our legs. ThAt would not be possible in an ev when you would need extended stops to charge. It just wouldn’t be practical. I thought of buying one to replace a 12 year old Aygo for my wife but the cost new of an ev is prohibitive so I just bought another Aygo. Definitely not for me.

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks 👍

[@murfmac9197]

you can happily use the 99% of the battery, you should just never leave them standing with very low charge or very high charge states. So use it down to 1% (if youve got nerves of steel!) and charge to 100%, but make sure if you run it down extremely low that it goes on a charger straight away to bring it back up above 20% and if you need the full 100% range then charge it to 100% but schedule it to finish charging to 100% just before you depart. My car has done 34k miles in 11 months using lots of DC high power charging (around 40% of my charging) and 60% AC at home....... often using 100% charge and taken it down to as low as 4% charge when arriving at home or at a fast charger (low charge states like this = max charge speed for Ultrafast chargers) and my degradation on the battery is 2.36%...... so I have lost 1.8kwh of storage. Degradation is fastest in the first 12 months. Lots of misinformation out there, but your spot on about the XC60 and the caravan

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

You only need more range if you drive a lot in one day.. how many of us actually do that? I believe its 8 miles per journey, on average.

[@bmw803]

Why this obsession? What's wrong with 300 miles? As Tom Malhoney ( State of Charge channel) suggested, don't worry too much about range. Concentrate on charging instead. Hardly anyone will drive over 200-250 miles without stopping. But, those chargers are SHIT. But, I'd still prefer FCEV. Onsite Hydrogen electrolysis at the gas station. They already exist in COMMIEFORNISTAN around L.A.

[@bmw803]

@@MikeGleesonazelectrics 8 miles per day? Not in North America. Many people drive 50 to 100 miles/day.

[@gregpheysey6933]

Thank you for you open honest review and simple explanation of the systems

[@PetrolPed]

Glad it was helpful!

[@simonbahaire8067]

Great vid as always Pete. A year in the Tesla model 3 long range now. Winter to summer makes the most difference. Longest real world range 308miles 100% to 1% but that was a bit twitchy bum time. I must be honest I have gone in to Wh/mi as my range measurement. In summer I like to see it less than 225. And in winter less than 300. Obvs when it’s 250 I’m getting 4 miles/kw. lived with 3 pin charging for 6 months then went to 7kw commando. Super chargers for any distance runs seemingly still has the edge on other charging networks. Could go on and on but I’ll just wish you and Mrs PP merry Christmas and all the very best for 2023. 🎄

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks Chap. Hope you are well and have a great Christmas 🎄

[@kenhardacre2139]

Apparently civil engineers are looking at the likelihood of reducing the capacity of older multi storey car parks by making the bays wider because the extra weight of EVs will overstress them. (Hoorray! We'll be able to open the doors properly when getting in and out😊) Excellent post BTW very informative. Just subscribed.

[@trevorshields7347]

And so it should be. Parking bays have been far too small for the past 30 years

[@nealm1814]

Sensationalist nonsense from the Daily Fail. ICE vehicles like the BMW X5 or a Mercedes GLE already weigh 2.5 tonnes so if the claim that car parks can't take the strain of the likes of a a 2.27 tonne Mustang Mach e is true we certainly shouldn't be parking big petrol or diesel SUVs in them.

[@grahamleiper1538]

Modern Fiesta is bigger in all dimensions than a 1970s Maxi. Golf Mk1 is a fraction of the size and weight of a current Golf. Changing space sizing is way overdue.

[@Brian-om2hh]

Oddly though, despite Norway having the largest take-up of EV usage anywhere in the World - at 56% of the population - I haven't heard of any multi-storey car parks collapsing there.

[@Brian-om2hh]

@@nealm1814 Exactly Neal. The Daily Mail is by far the biggest peddler of uninformed EV crap known to man.

[@stevie007]

Thank you, Pete explained very concisely ( no waffle just straightforward sound advice ) which even I as an ordinary layman can understand 👍👍 I still think listening to you and the AA I will stick with my BMW diesel which is less than 3 years old and gives me an average fuel consumption of 55 miles per gallon and costs considerably less than an EV.

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks Chap 👍

[@davidperry3531]

And you don't have to worry about range or whether you can find a charger that is free and working.

[@Jonno180556ADI]

Me too

[@timofthomas]

I did wonder myself, I have a pool car, 6 years old, Merc A180D 1.5 Peugeot diesel engine in it. Fortunately I regularly achieve 950 miles to a tank and once 1150 before I had to fill up. If I do less than 900 I lose money on every work trip. The WLTP for the car says it can only do 800 miles. On that basis my light foot will either transfer to the EV when it comes... or the situation will be even worse.

[@mickkidston7344]

lets do the numbers stevie, at the current £1.72 p/l then you're paying 14.2 pence per mile on fuel alone, given the current cap at 34 p pKwh an EV would have to be doing less than 2.2 miles per Kwh to make your "understanding" valid

[@locustvalleystring]

Well Done. Thank you for the rundown.

[@PetrolPed]

Glad it was helpful!

[@markcourtney7251]

Brilliantly presented as usual!

[@PetrolPed]

Glad you think so!

[@peterrolt6403]

Very interesting, at last a simple explanation about the EV problems that governments and manufacturers gloss over. We have a £15k four seater car that always returns 50+ mpg which gives us an easy 450 mile range, important for us when travelling from Yorkshire to Bedfordshire.

[@PetrolPed]

🙏🏻

[@fradaja]

Yes you definitely need 450 miles range for a 130 mile trip 😂🤣😂🤣😂

[@peterrolt6403]

@@fradaja well it was a 420 mile round trip which we did without refuelling or range anxiety in cold weather, with lights, heater all on. But then, we live in the real world.

[@jimslack1766]

@@peterrolt6403 Good on ya Peter, the problem is - most EV supporters do not want to know about the " real world "

[@TheRetroShed]

Great video. I was considering a Tesla model 3 last year but they are stupidly overpriced, then looked at an ID4 but that had a lead time of over a year. Ended up buying an Audi A6 TDI and that is very economical to run. I’ll stick with that for a while and see what happens I think.

[@lynjames8790]

No matter what the government, or electric vehicle manufacturers say the infrastructure is just not there to keep these vehicles rolling. Also, I am yet to be convinced that from sourcing of basic materials to build, through to end of serviceable life use. That EVs are any more beneficial to the planet and it's inhabitants than any other vehicle. I will be sticking with my 65 mpg Suzuki Vitara diesel with it's range of over 600 miles, and a complete lack of any range anxiety. Furthermore, has anyone done a survey of, once EV owners have owned their cars for the vehicles 3/4/5 years owning span, how many go out and buy/ lease another one ?

[@waynerussell6401]

@@lynjames8790 You are deeply ignorant. Research. The future of our children depends on it.

[@AdamJermaneJones]

These videos are invaluable for the folk new to EVs. I remember 5 years ago that these were the only way I had to understand everything when I bought my LEAF. I will just point out though that not all cars can charge at 22kw, some can’t even accept 7kw like my old LEAF. But it’s impossible to get everything in such a detailed video

[@PetrolPed]

Glad you like them!

[@scottcompany4040]

I have an EV and it has a summer range of about 270 miles, winter its about 210 miles. But like most people I charge at home most of the time on an cheap overnight tariff with Octopus Energy. I also have the benefit of Solar panels and a home battery system. So in the summer it costs me almost nothing for at least 3 months. In the UK about 70% of car journeys are LESS THAN FIVE MILES. Some drivers do up to 250 miles a day on a regular basis. Rarely people drive more than 250 miles in one journey but a vanishingly small number of people doing that kind of trip would do it without stopping for a coffee or a visit to the toilet. My most recent trip was to rural North Wales where I did a total of 680 miles over 4 days. I left home with a full charge and then charged the car three times during the trip. The longest charge was about 40 minutes at a Waitrose supermarket while we shopped for goodies. The average cost of charging on this trip was 58p per kWh. Since 17 January (6 months ago) when I bought the car, my EV has cost me just 4.3p per mile