It's The End of Gambit As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)

Gambit certainly seems like it is not gonna be getting too much more attention from Bungie going into the future. And after 5 years of on and off trying to making something happen, I can't blame them.
Datto's Stream Archive: / @dattostreamsdestiny
Watch Datto Live at / datto on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Fridays.
Datto is now partnered with Logitech! Use "Datto10" at checkout to get a 10% discount on Logitech and Logitech G products. logi.gg/Datto for Logitech, logi.link/Datto for Logitech G
5% discount on ASTRO gear: www.astro.famil... (works in all available regions)
Check out the new Datto Signature Series PC at Evolve and save money when you use code Datto at checkout! www.evolvepcs....
Epic Games Store Creator Code: HelloDatto
Danielle's Advanced.GG code: TRVL at checkout (Datto has no affiliation with advanced.gg)
Datto Does Destiny Social Media:
Twitter: / dattosdestiny
Twitch: / datto

[@THELYRICALTMAN]

We let Drifter down

[@shadowmoon3062]

I didn’t do non! I mean I know I mainly play crucible but I tried for drifter darn it! 😭

[@damianaraque3038]

BANK THOSE MOTES GUARDIAN

[@AceVortux]

Nah, BUNGIE let Drifter down.

[@phantasm4263]

😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@chonkyloreraccoon3686]

Remember the allegiance quest and how Bungie showed overwhelmingly how many sides with the vanguard over the drifter? That’s when I realized It was all downhill going forward

[@gcaviner]

I actually really like gambit. But every season I dread playing it, until I finally do to get all my challenges done and I think “wow I’m having a lot of fun actually”

[@phantomninja01]

It's so freeing not having to handicap yourself with the loadouts Bungie imposes on you for some Brightdust reward.

[@Justrayjay0718]

It’s actually the opposite for me. I love playing gambit on my free time, doing whatever I please, but when it comes to the seasonal challenges, it’s just boring. The challenges mostly require you to kill this certain type of enemy or use a certain type of weapon/subclass, but that’s not how *I* want to play. Of course, I could always just skip them, but when are we going to get some challenges like crucible where you just need to play matches? I don’t want to play gambit when my whole team is only prioritizing the taken only and I’m the one stuck with motes

[@ehoffart529]

Last season was the first season I didn't get the seal since Beyond Light. I just hate glaives so I couldn't be bothered.

[@MattIsAVampire]

Yeah, gambit is my favorite of the ritual playlists and I have to hard disagree with almost every point in this video. Gambit has two big problems 1) people suck at it (because they don't play it, because they don't like it) and 2) there's no variety or reason to get invested in it. Imagine if Nightfalls and GMs didn't exist, there were no strike modifiers, and the only strikes in the playlist were exodus crash, inverted spire, the scarlet keep, and the glassway - and those hadn't changed in years. Nobody would like strikes, either. What gambit needs is alternative modes (deviating from the core motes/boss mode), including an endgame mode, and some kind of mix-up like daiky/weekly modifiers. Icing would be periodic mode like iron banner that has some uniqueness. The only thing I agree with is that putting a grind behind a mode people don't like is not a fix.

[@gcaviner]

@@ehoffart529 same here. Didn’t get the title last season or this season, first time I didn’t bother trying to get it

[@jw7103]

The thing I enjoy about Gambit the most is the aesthetic. I love the unique green shaders and the snake themed armor. I enjoy the fantasy of being a sort of competitive smuggler. But yeah sometimes it’s hard to play or enjoy

[@Halofan-ey3ul]

The og weapon aesthetic from forsaken was so good.

[@sp_cemo9975]

I liked how the Reckoning activity tied into Gambit and the Drifter storyline. I feel like a little changeup between rounds is beneficial for most activities.

[@unkind3489]

I didn’t like reckoning but I like the 4 class armor that came with reckoning and I made it feel like when you play gambit it not everyone is just dps but yet everyone has there own job in the game.

[@RubyAlternate]

My heart goes out to Datto for having to get footage for this video 😞

[@Bbros2423]

This one sentence beautifully encapsulates why Bungie is taking Gambit out to the pasture. It's truly a perfect example of player sentiment toward Gambit, and I wholeheartedly agree. RIP Datto, I can't believe he got Gambit'd like that 💀

[@meowspark9]

Banished to the gambit mines to gather video footage.

[@Mugiwara2k]

@@Bbros2423It’s actually a perfect sentiment of why Gambit is partially in the shape it’s in now; This entire dedication of some people to meme and dunk on Gambit at every chance possible.. regardless of weather they actually truly hate it or not. I guarantee you most of the people that constantly meme or call Gambit ‘bad’ barely play the mode (or have even touched it in some cases), and just parrot it because they hear other people (like content creators) do it. Dunking on Gambit has literally become the equivalent of high school peer pressure, where people do it because it’s the “cool” thing to do. And all it’s resulted in making new players have a negative perception of it before even playing (or worse, making them start meme’ing it before even touching it) and making Bungie think no one likes it (which just isn’t true), and therefore dedicating less resources to it. Gambit has loads of potential and can absolutely be fun (Especially when Prime was around), which is why it’s beyond annoying knowing that it’s demise was partially caused by largely bad faith memes about it.

[@Bbros2423]

@@Mugiwara2k I'd be more inclined to agree with you if you had anything to actually support the idea that people only hate on it because it's popular, but there is no evidence. That claim is based entirely on your perception. While I agree that it may be true for some or even many of the players dunking on Gambit, there is no way to quantify how many of them hate it because "it's cool to hate Gambit" and how many people (such as myself) just don't like it. You can't arbitrarily "guarantee" that a majority of players behave a certain way for a specific reason without evidence. As Datto clearly outlined, Bungie gave Gambit multiple rounds of updates and overhauls, but it was never enough to regain player interest. This was the case even *before* the "Gambit bad" mentality caught on and grew to meme status. Players were much more receptive to the idea of Gambit around the Forsaken era. Many of the complaint posts at the time were centered around invader balance, and people on the forums actually *wanted* Bungie to fix Gambit because the mode had potential. It wasn't until after multiple updates that people started to give up on Gambit entirely. No matter how much Bungie changed, there would always be a new "free invasion kills" weapon/ability, and people would find ways to abuse it. Like said, there are likely to be some people that just dunk on Gambit for the meme, but you can't discredit the people that actually dislike what Gambit grew up to be. (Also, if your stance is that the Gambit haters are just "jumping on the bandwagon," you're admitting that there was already an established level of dissent towards Gambit before it was "popular" to hate it. The bandwagoners can't latch onto an idea that didn't already exist.)

[@kilianbalter]

@@Mugiwara2k Truer words have never been spoken. Hating on gambit becoming the "funny/cool" thing to do has to be one of the top reasons it's consistently been declining /stagnating. Literally anywhere Gambit is ever mentioned the reaction is "Oh I'm sorry you had to play Gambit". Every single time the Reckoner title is mentioned anywhere for the last 3/4? years there's at least 5 people making the "I hope you get mental help! / I'm sorry for your mental health" joke. It's not even funny anymore, was funny for like a few months maybe.

[@stephenoleary9579]

The armour set was a great idea, promoted playing specific rolls in gambit. And you knew what roll your teammate was gonna do.

[@robertpalmer8080]

Prime really was peak Gambit. Gambit has never been for everyone but if Prime stayed, I think Gambit would still be more fun today.

[@stephenoleary9579]

@@robertpalmer8080 Prime really was gambit at its best. Just needed some slight adjustments. Weapons tuning and such.

[@robertpalmer8080]

@stephenoleary9579 mostly the armor needed adjustment. Weapons will always need an adjustment, but Invader and 2 pieces of Reaper gear were the only things that really felt like they impacted the game competitively speaking. Unfortunately sentry and collector were just kinda left though and then the whole mode was scrapped. All that potential just gone :c

[@silverjaye1315]

Season of the Drifter was my favourite season. Gambit prime was so much fun! The custom armor sets were awesome. Gambit has always been my favorite game mode since it came out. It breaks my heart that people hate it as much as it does. It's sad to see it die :(

[@lucyarisato6850]

Gambit really is my favorite game mode. Still, I can see why they’re doing this.

[@leobalma]

same brotha, i just play to hear the drifter sweet voice and bank those motes!

[@LIscariot]

Yeah I'm my Destiny group's premiere Gambit enjoyer, but Destiny is making the right call. Gambit is not popular, and it prob would be impossible to make it something that most people enjoyed because of the reality of the Destiny sandbox. Bungie can barely try and keep up with PvP and PvE balancing, are we supposed to somehow have them balancing everything for gambit too? Not to mention every single update they'd give gambit would be met with vitriol from the PvP and PvE communities for daring to take resources away. Imagine the PvP main salt if Gambit got a new map. Gambit is a great idea, I think it'd do well as a standalone experience where it can be tuned and balanced to a polished shine. But for Destiny, having to compete with limited development resources, and having to struggle with a sandbox not designed for it, Gambit ranges from a bad gametype to something fun every now and then for most people. It will never be a reason people play.

[@Rith9789]

​@@leobalmading

[@ExtraordinaryFate]

@@LIscariotThat honestly is hard for a lot of players to say. Props to you for realizing that even though you like it

[@flamingscar5263]

It honestly feels like the gambit mains are like "yea this makes sense" and the non gambit players are upset NEWSFLASH TO THE NON GAMBIT PLAYERS it doesn't matter what Bungie does, you'll never like Gambit, so stop caring

[@AJSLV2002]

Back in the days of Gambit Prime and the Reckoning, Gambit was genuinely my favourite game mode. It still remains to be one of my favourite game modes in the game, and it's saddening to see the mode just be left behind like this. Dredgen is the only title I've got guilded, because i don't have the time to guild a lot of them, and Gambit is the one i have that i can put up with guilding the most. And tbh, we don't really even need new maps. They just shouldn't have removed the old ones. I know Bungie did try to help bring more players to Gambit, but it still just feels bad to have my favourite game mode just left behind.

[@NordicMetal93]

Honestly, if Bungie is going to do more roguelike stuff, I'd like to see it be under the Gambit banner, but not as a replacement for the PvEvP mode, more a different activity to get rep and gear. My wild idea would be for a roguelike horde mode using the Gambit arenas, Drifter commentary, and motes as an in-activity currency for buying perks/buffs/ammo between rounds from the bank. Maybe even have an "endgame" mode with champions and a set faction and map each week.

[@WiseSam95]

Hot take, as a PvE lord, if we’re talking fun and levels of engagement, I think I would actually prefer playing Gambit to doing mindless strikes. Strike playlist basically boils down to one of two things, either you’re competing or kills or going in a lost sector, or you’re speed running the strike for completion. I genuinely enjoyed myself this season while catching up on seasonal challenges in Gambit, when I got to the hand cannon kills I did malfeasance and lucky pants. It was a strong combo. But, I can totally understand the response to the path of least resistance, and Gambit is usually not most people’s preferred avenue. This change will possibly see the removal of the solo gambit mode as well, which would be a shame.

[@samkirkland5606]

Gambit Prime was awesome. Different armor perks / giant blockers. It was fun, hasn’t been as much since. But I hate strikes - I reset all ranks at least once except Vanguard and I gilded the conqueror title. Just boring.

[@mobbossgambino]

SENSE.

[@mobbossgambino]

​@@samkirkland5606og gambit was fxcking AMAZİNG , i could never forget it.

[@-Alpeter]

There's nothing fun about Gambit and it a meme. GM nightfalls are far better than Gambit.

[@aaronlaughter6471]

As a PVE lord myself, your fucking lying, I dont want PVP in my PVE.

[@Lesovikk]

I really do love gambit and participating in the meta of the remaining players. On some level, the games are really quick too, and that makes it a fast pace. Prime was peak.

[@DarkGouki202]

💯💯💯

[@anthonypotamitis7049]

I am not huge on gambit but I genuinely enjoyed farming gambit prime and having a specific set that gives bonuses.

[@corruptVz]

Gambit is and always has been absolute garbage.

[@Hillahr31]

During Gambit Prime I had arguably the most fun I've ever had with Gambit. Still sad that it's gone

[@Steve-MN]

I'd rather staple my pinky toe to a board and light my hair on fire than playing Gambit. I only did it to get Pinnacles and occasional loot.

[@braydenpeck7437]

I would like to see some of the old gambit weapons return to the playlist. Bygones, distant relation and hazard of the cast are some of my favorite guns that I would love to see return

[@alexcurtis8132]

I was so happy when Trust came back this season lol

[@just_d3spairity]

​@@alexcurtis8132 Man, goes to show how much people cared about Laser Painter that no one remembers it's the season of the deep reward for gambit lmao. Victim of the "just because it's strand doesn't mean it's relevant" like the Solstice Rocket

[@jerryballstein]

Ya Bygones remains my favorite pulse rifle in the game. The look, feel, sound, & sights are the best, I'd definitely play to get a new roll.

[@reivax89_]

I always loved gambit prime while it was around, I enjoyed the idea of having each person have their own role. I always thought that if they did something similar to a role queue for gambit prime, it would still be around today

[@DarkGouki202]

💯💯💯

[@torchdragon]

Role Armor without the extra game loop of having to do a weird silo'd PVE matchmade activity to "rank up" the armor would have been amazing. I'm a fan of the game mode as well. I don't know that the roles would be better or worse for people... Does it knock more casual people out of the loop, (I don't know what this does so I don't care and now all the matches are frustrating because I don't want to learn something new?) and does it really retain a bunch of the Gambit-mains, and if so, what are the actual numbers of Gambit-mains?

[@ExtraordinaryFate]

It was fun when you could get a team to properly play roles. But nobody played their roles, they did whatever they wanted. Dude decked out in invader armor wouldn't be able to make it to the portal because the banker dude decided to go in

[@sunofabob]

Prime was the best of Gambit.

[@sunofabob]

@@torchdragonPrimer armor was the best. Giant blockers!!!

[@the_seamoose]

If Gambit played like Exoprimal, that’d be pretty neat! Drifter sends you and another team in to deal with simulated scenarios simultaneously, such as defeat 80 of a certain enemy type, defend a capture plate for a certain amount of time while hordes of enemies approach, defeat a boss, even a payload section, and it culminates with both teams meeting each other on the battlefield while finishing a final objective. Would be a cool concept!

[@froztbitz]

I'm glad to see someone else noticed the similarities between the two

[@KoleTheSilent]

You nailed it. I like playing Gambit but the thing that turns me off so fast is kill, bank, repeat. So monotonous and has no stakes until the invader shows up.

[@GeezyLoves420]

Great idea! There's still potential in Gambit but Bungo is clearly resource starved and have more important priorities. Anyone remember the Malfeasance quest? Man, when that meatball boss popped up, everyone would fire on all cylinders. There were massive balance issues but it felt very competitive and was part of an overarching quest with awesome rewards. I've had some really good times with Gambit. Its a good middle ground and I hope Bungo doesn't give up on it.

[@rylorthreev1353]

I feel like exoprimal is a better designed gambit Maybe something like: 4v4 Different objectives besides bank motes Invader is an actual taken spawning goo, being annoying, somewhat of a bullet sponge AND NOT a guardian Once all objs are done it's either full pvpve or 8 player reckoning

[@dragonridernate2770]

Honestly i didn't even think about that until you mentioned Exoprimal. That would be pretty cool!

[@3rdBlkGuy]

I think the honest change for gambit should be a hoard mode. Like have a net slowly closing and you have to bank to keep a safe mode up and you just slay until you team wipe and how many you bank translate to loot with like a tier system. The more you bank, the better loot you get. I think that would be good. Maybe throw some mods or perks you can pick per tier you reach in there

[@jakkett1035]

This. Actually this

[@Blacknike98]

lol you mean Prison of Elders?

[@smalltrashman4227]

​@Blacknike98 That's pretty much nothing like Prison of Elders lol. What are you talking about

[@3rdBlkGuy]

@@Blacknike98 no. because prison had boss rounds and it ended in a boss fight. I mean an actual hoard mode. Ads keep spawning and getting stronger untill you die. Weather that be in 10 sec or 1 hr, you just keep going until you can't anymore. A complete slay slay out. With no cap on how long you can stay or how many motts you can bank.

[@matthewkillner]

God i miss Halo FireFight :D Give me Bungie level horde gameplay PLEASE!!!

[@gunmaster260]

As a Gambit Enthusiast, who truly loves the game mode and consistently ranks in the top 300 players every season, I hope it doesn't die-die. I do think Gambit Prime was the best we had, and merging the two game modes removed intricate build crafting and interesting team compositions. It removed all the cool niche strategies that made it different from the other core playlists, and just became a weird amalgamation. I still enjoy it and play it, I just wish other people did too.

[@Styxz__]

THANK YOU IVE BEEN SAYING THIS AND MY FRIENDS ACT LIKE IM CRAZY

[@Coff33Drink3r02]

I have always been confused by the community's consensus on Gambit- I like the game mode! It's fun! You get to slay out against high argo enemeis WHILE also having to build around fighting enemy players. I lowkey feel like the hate against gambit is invaders spamming heavy weapons and a lack of some form of a nightfall/trials equivalent for gambit.

[@Blockerz101]

It's the lack of loot worth chasing, spammy weapons and general player IQ that kills gambit

[@blebreton06]

Honestly, just lock all heavy ammo when an invader is present, forcing the team to work together and primary special the person down.

[@AbsoluteSauce]

@@blebreton06then the invader shouldn’t have heavy lol. There’s nothing as unfun as a guy invading you with tracking rockets or a linear fusion and insta killing you

[@sven2win498]

@@AbsoluteSauce thats exactly what they are saying. they are suggesting that NONE of the players in the invaded side should be allowed to use heavy while an invasion is going on, including the invader.

[@Klodhvig]

There is nothing engaging about the pve experience in gambit, we have powercrept so far that it's just a boring race to wipe out each wave of enemies.

[@ZPM7]

imagine how much more incongruous the Drifter's personality would be if his game mode didn't have invasions anymore. that's the part he gets the most excited about. without invasions he's just a weird crusty guy who likes telling you about how he eats almost every living thing he sees

[@bon497]

Gambit feels like a seasonal activity that never went away

[@kaguscon]

And is better than every seasonal bullshit we get.

[@TheRagingSpartan_03]

@@kagusconnice joke

[@marceletta]

@@TheRagingSpartan_03 not a joke

[@joeliolioli4156]

@@marcelettayes it is

[@TheRagingSpartan_03]

@@marceletta made me laugh

[@GhostintheMachine25]

The sad thing is Gambit has potential to be the best core playlist of the 3 but the sandbox ruins it every season. I am a fan of Gambit and still am to this day. It’s how i started to connect to the lore of the story instead of just run, point and shoot. It’s where I started to “git gud” at the game in general. I fully acknowledge that the loot isn’t great (crucible gets worse loot IMO). I hope it gets better in time but honestly all 3 playlists need help. Vanguard got a cheap bandage treatment by adding battle grounds which made nightfalls worse and less fun to play, Crucible is……..crucible (dont at me, I had a few good seasons making peoples lives miserable but ohhhhh boy did matchmaking pay me back for it). Here’s hoping the state of the game in general improves and the communities and Bungie see brighter days. See you around the tower guardians

[@Butterwinkle]

As a Gambit main, this video hurts me in ways I can hardly express. I'll always look back upon the days of Gambit Prime with teary eyed nostalgia.

[@DarkGouki202]

Prime was peak gambit. 💯💯💯

[@Resonosity]

Same here friend

[@fatedscribe9298]

My biggest regret about being a gambit enjoyer is that I wasn’t a gambit enjoyer sooner. I hated the game mode pretty much up until lightfall, and then something clicked and I started loving it. I’m only one guardian but I like to think that if I had played more gambit in past years, it could’ve helped the current situation.

[@TobiSamaEatinCookies]

As someone who actually enjoys Gambit, I get it. It's wild seeing all these people who said take Gambit out of the game, ate now talking about "What about gambit?" It's my first activity I reset and guild the for

[@Steve-MN]

Not me. Take Gambit out of the game. Period.

[@reggiebell7291]

Not me. Improve Gambit. Period.@@Steve-MN

[@Welverin]

@regigrenski8434If you just want to do PvE stuff, gambit is not the mode for you.

[@Nthdegree2]

No take it out. They can't nail it and fix it, take it out then. Stop acknowledging it's existence and put it in the DCV like how they put nearly a whole DLC in the DCV. Put that entire gamemode in there.

[@hhaste]

@@Steve-MN Or you could just ignore it and let other people enjoy things.. just because you're bad at it doesn't mean you have to stop other people from having fun.

[@Altherot]

As a 9x gilded Dredgen.. yeah, I love Gambit and its concept and potential. Gambit Prime was the best Gambit there's ever been.

[@baransevim3969]

I’m sure both of the Gambit fans will be very upset over this

[@i_fuze_hostages6]

I am

[@unknownlegend2167]

I am as well

[@natetaggart1413]

Me as well

[@SalemParadox]

6x Gilded Dredgen, near-solo Reckoner. I'm strangely indifferent. I'd just like those two vaulted maps back, and I'd be fine.

[@lachiripiolca]

I am

[@ShootinMyWayOut]

Gambit main here. The main thing I think is people lament it's potential. PVPVE gamemodes are so much fun when done well. Exoprimal and For Honor's Breach are mostly good examples of this. It's fun adding a competitive element to PVE since it's a refreshing spin on PVE which is almost never competitve outside speedrunning. But the crux of it is: Bungie failed in making Gambit competitive. Gambit was at it's peak at launch because we didn't know what the meta was. Once we did, it went downhill from there. Bungie has made some beneficial changes like the Primeval immunity phases to prevent one phasing the Primeval, and the latest changes to Heavy economy, but Bungie has just been really quite poor at balancing Gambit, resulting in people dreading playing it. This was proven with Gambit Prime. They made Invader ludicrously overpowered, Collector hilariously underpowered, and the others mid. Bungie honestly just really sucks at PVP balance. It always takes patch after patch to balance with massive gaps in between. And we rarely got new content for it. 2 maps and 1 new game mode over nearly 5 years. And I'm sorry when the only updates past that are "we know our game mode is in a shitty state so we're changing the sandbox," you know the content's not executed well to begin with if your only updates are Operation Health ones. Balance changes are not the same as actually new content to play. I understand why they're giving up, it's costing too much and they're failing at properly balancing it on launch, but it is sad to see potential for a very fun gamemode go to waste. That's my guess as to why players are upset.

[@urazz7739]

Funny thing is that if Bunie was much faster in doing balance patches in PVP and Gambit, i think people would play them more. You only ever seem them act fast on things that are blatantly OP.

[@austinlizarraga4165]

Perfectly stated. They made it. And essentially abandoned it, taking no feedback. Since the game came out. If they were able to balance Gambit Prime, more people would play it. Best of Gambit back then

[@malenkiy3642]

Think you said it best. Gambit has lots of potential and clearly has an audience, but to see Bungie seemingly "give up" on one if it's most unique modes kind of stings, especially after all the feedback given.

[@robertpalmer8080]

Legit the biggest thing I was latched onto for ages when Gambit first dropped was the fact that the game calls it a competitive cooperative game mode, but it felt anything but. I played the hell out of it in the first year but I didn't love it till Gambit Prime and I saw what they could do with that. There were definitely issues with those roles but I had some hilariously fun games with my friends, something that doesn't happen in Gambit or PvP anymore. I remember running 4 collectors when we were working on our last roles for Reckoner and it was so god damned funny dropping 4 giant blockers on our opponents that it didn't even matter that they were underpowered as hell. I wish Bungie had kept Prime and just tried tweaking the weaker sets to find them a place in the game and keep those roles. Now I'm just bored of it. I've done Dredgen like 7 times or whatever now but I've lost my motivation to finish what I start, I'm always like a few games off being done but I just don't have the time to even dedicate to 1 reset now before I get bored. It's always the same, spam abilities, hoard heavy for boss/invasion and wait for the game to end. Prime had personality and I miss it.

[@AshenHawk96]

100% this. I would kill to see Gambit potential get built upon with more variations and interesting designs, because the core idea is super fun. It just kind of has been in one bad state after another over time, either due to being unrewarding, misbalanced, or unimprobed, and as the game's evolved over the years, with all the heavy focus on content for the PvE side and balancing/rewards for the PvP, Gambit's nature of PvPvE has mostly just meant it's fallen through the cracks as minimal work was put into what makes it unique from the other modes. So, now it's officially been left behind.

[@carlosconsoni1892]

New game modes. I've been asking for this for couple of years now. Last player standing: Both teams have to fight hordes of enemies of increasing difficulty and the last team standing wins. Obstacle course: Both teams have to run through a gauntlet of enemies and platforming and the first team to reach the end wins. Relay Race: Both teams have to pass a ball to the next player while avoiding enemies and the first team to get the ball in wins. And these are just the basic ideas. We could add some flavor like boss enemies, or unique ways to sabotage the other team besides invasions, Maybe a bonus round? Gambit has potential and it would suck if it got sunset entirely.

[@FrostReach66]

Gambit is only hindered by your teammates most of the time. Fundamentally, I don’t even have a problem with it

[@underscore_5450]

Fr. If you have a decent team or you're playing with friends, it's really not that bad most of the time. But 90% of games I play feel like I have to sweat my ass off and play every role to win or get absolutely steamrolled. Gambit relies really heavily on teamwork, which sucks when most people are there to get their 3 matches over with and ditch it for the week.

[@crunchyspider1843]

Solution to fix power ammo in gambit: get rid of power ammo drops and crates completely. Then make a second bank as you would that converts motes into power ammo bricks (does not contribute to mote count), say 5 motes will give u a rocket shot or two. For primeval, buff health drastically and remove health gates. Have taken drop motes in primeval phase which can be banked for power

[@crunchyspider1843]

Alternatively make a system where you can withdraw banked motes for power. Treat motes like a currency

[@Toanleigh]

The true limiting factor of Gambit is that if you are solo queing you never know if you should go with a PvE heavy loadout to bank those motes or PvP to counter invaders. If it was cut back to 3v3 I think it would help with stacking buffs and be in line with the other competitive modes.

[@tony1990]

I personally just use an ability based ad clear build and slot a sniper rifle to counter invaders/invade myself.

[@ThisIsEssKah]

thats why prime imho was such a good idea - the roles gave structure to the team.

[@chickenwar1]

I always use a PvE loadout but add a scout rifle for killing invaders/invade myself. That's literally all you need. Killing 4 players as invader with a decent scout rifle is a cake walk most of the time (and this isn't supposed to be a flex, I suck at pvp)

[@theuned]

I like Gambit. I’ll keep playing it and other modes as long as it’s there. I think it’s a fun alternative to other modes. I think the core circular map style could be redesigned. I am probably rare guardian but that’s how I see it.

[@Cataclysmic_]

Gambit is the representation of the difficulty of adjusting 2 sandboxes at once, PvE and PvP. It's almost impossible to find the perfect spot for it to be in sandbox wise and as soon as something is buffed/nerfed in either sandbox the entire thing needs to be uprooted and refounded.

[@mattbell543]

If nothing else it just means people who enjoy Gambit like me don't have to worry about some big change affecting how we play. That being said I did like the one labs thing where the motes you bank gives the Enemy their portal instead

[@kenw4344]

This video and the comments actually reminded me how much I enjoy gambit. Actually motivated me to log back into destiny and play for a few hours.

[@edgetransit]

Death: It’s Time to go Gambit: was I a good game mode? Death: No

[@jylecrennan]

I think I’m the last person on Earth that had defended Gambit since launch. I cannot for the life of me understand why the overwhelming majority of the community hates the mode other than Heavy ammo invades; I don’t think that would ruin the mode but I guess it did for many. I am of the firm believer that Gambit is the best place to test a build. Ad clear, boss DPS, team support, even a PvP build to a degree; it lets you be both serious in your build crafting, but also lenient enough to allow for meme builds too. I’m not mad that they’re letting go of Gambit, not even disappointed, but man do I wish they just made the reverse invasion lab mode the base version.

[@javax6]

Literally babies who don’t like getting ego checked by invaders

[@blakeerenhouse943]

One of my big issues with the mode isn’t even necessarily invaders, but just the pace. You spend half the time running back and forth or banking motes instead of being in combat. Each group of enemies goes down in like 15 seconds so if you did anything other than run straight there (like banking motes), no combat for you until the next wave. Once the boss spawns, it’s again just running over to the taken and running back to the boss. Imo it’s just too much downtime for such little combat. Also half of the time it’s either a complete roll or you get stomped

[@jylecrennan]

@@blakeerenhouse943 This is gonna sound really f*cking stupid and narcissistic, but downtime is literally a mechanic. Part of playing the objective is time management and if you have to skip a wave to bank or kill blockers while your team does the combat, then do that if it means getting a W. Sometimes waiting for a portal to open, a set of blockers to spawn, or preparing to be invaded will end up saving your team so much time respawning or collecting unnecessary motes. Again, it’s stupid, but it works.

[@blakeerenhouse943]

@@jylecrennan something being a mechanic doesn’t mean it’s a good or enjoyable mechanic. It makes the game infinitely less fun when half the time you’re doing nothing but standing in the middle waiting for something to happen. It would be like if a raid had a mechanic where you did nothing but stand still while everyone else killed stuff, it just wouldn’t be fun. Even disregarding banking motes, killing blockers, or waiting for invaders, there’s still so much downtime due to how short the waves are. You go and kill like 7 enemies, pick up their motes and then run across the map to do it again. Running from one wave to another is sometimes just as long as the combat section itself. With something like a strike, there is some downtime running between objectives, but the combat sections are so much longer and more engaging that it’s not nearly as impactful to the experience

[@samvakarian]

Datto once again hitting us with a banger of a song reference. Don't worry dude, there are those of us who get a grin out of everytime you make a song reference and Jez has no clue of the genius he just missed.

[@soundandfury9641]

the exact exchange here: “REM? nobody?” “youre a boomer no one knows what that is”

[@Quantum_Magnus]

@@soundandfury9641that response is me losing my religion.

[@exmachina1405]

​@@Quantum_Magnuseverybody hurts after seeing that reference

[@gerdoom]

I think fhe sudden gambit positivity is just because it was the third thing in the state of the game (crucible maps and vendor armor being the other two) that bungie said they couldnt continue to support because of "resources". While I understand that, whether or not that is a good decision starts to mean less to some when they get told that three times in an update post.

[@cys_bacon]

Gambit is fun but Bungie thinking having only three maps was okay is a joke, it's too repetitive. Imagine if crucible or strikes have only three maps, the only reason to play is for the challenges/triumphs. Datto needs to stop making excuses for Bungie. Taking out two maps to bringing back one after years doesn't seem like work to me. Yes, gambit probably won't get any more attention so I'd say just sack it off and delete the game mode to improve others.

[@NotSoMuchSkill]

A lot of people I’ve played with love to hate on gambit without ever playing it because it’s “the cool thing to do” I don’t enjoy pvp so I spend most of my time when not doing gm’s or raids in gambit

[@HiImKangarou]

1. They made changes. Half of those changes were removals. 2. Bungie tried stuff, but never touched major complaints (invasions dictating the match, matchmaking being very uneven) 3. Bungie is going on to make Marathon, an extraction shooter. Extraction shooters are team PVPVE games. So to hear them abandoning Gambit, their first PVPVE attempt, sounds less like "None of our ideas worked" and more like "We have ideas, we're just not spending effort on the old one anymore".

[@Resonosity]

PvP players complaining about them funding Marathon. Bitch how about Gambit players funding that shit

[@mrsmi1ey]

I don't undestand the hate for Gambit. It's in a great place balance-wise, and the solo queue helps a lot with not getting absolutely stomped by 4-man groups. My only request would be for more maps, and Bungie is finally bringing back the Dreaming City map, so that's a plus. For context, I absolutely never play Gambit with a full team (usually solo, or with one other friend), and we always have a great time. I'll play Gambit over the strike playlist 1000x over.

[@darklypure52]

I'll tell you why. Because its just pvp mode with some pve elements if you hated pvp gambit wouldn't be mode you enjoy however if you enjoyed pvp and was good at it then the mode is fun. Honestly if they ever did one last rework for gambit I would want it to become like the ghost of tushima pvp mode where is strictly pve without having to invade.

[@mrsmi1ey]

Out of the half dozen or so friends/family that I play Gambit with, I'm the only person who trsllu enjoys PvP. They all enjoy Gambit just as much as I do, and a couple have actually started enjoying Crucible more from wanting to become better at invading in Gambit. It's the only activity that forces you to build both for PvP and PvE, and that's such an interesting idea IMO. I REALLY wish Bungie brought back the roles from Gambit Prime, because that helped a ton when playing with randos. @@darklypure52

[@hash8169]

I feel the same. I love Gambit and am looking forward to a new map and two more enemy types. Destiny players bond through making fun of Gambit and complaining about it online.

[@cryogen9914]

Guilded Dredgen 9x here. Gambit, to me, has been an enjoyable game mode since they rolled out the seasonal enemy changes a while ago. Honestly the two main things that negatively impact my perspective on the experience are 1) the fact that we only have 3 maps to play on, and 2) the fact that we haven't seen too many of the old gambit weapons return just yet (save Trust). I'm actually okay with no major changes coming to the game mode as I think its fine as is, and I'm excited the old map is coming back, I just wish we would get more things to chase in a season than just a singular new weapon.

[@anthonypotamitis7049]

Back at it again with the song references 😂. Love it

[@aragornelesar3862]

Beyond Light: Removes half the gamemode, and half the maps. Witch Queen: "Overhauls" makes some changes to how it plays, but nothing really changes. Now: WhY dOeS nO oNe PlAy GaMbIt?

[@silverkille]

I do genuinely love Gambit, its my favourite gamemode/ritual in Destiny. That being said, the 'updates' that Gambit have gotten have fallen somewhere between good effort and half assed. Good ideas not enough effort I feel.

[@MilaBurst]

As someone who loves gambit I am sad to hear this.

[@Prime_Vector]

It’s absolutely not about gambit, it’s the mindset that they have about it.

[@Alucard2356]

I think they should have a PvE only version, but instead of getting rid of the invader part, have it be where you choose to devote one or two players to an Awoken dimension version of the map kind of thing where you're fighting really hard adds or mini-bosses, or gathering more motes there to deposit to heal the other team's boss to slow them down and the healing has a diminishing return to it so people can't just hard focus healing the enemy boss, but it being significant enough at the start to make people from just ignoring the mechanic to blast down the boss.

[@ma276]

I think your take on this is accurate; and I say this as someone that really enjoys Gambit. At this point I feel like the community is just primed to complain about just about anything Bungie does, which is a shame. Destiny is a game I deeply love and enjoy despite being a relatively late comer to it (I started right after Beyond Light launched) and it’s sad to see how acerbic everyone is.

[@Nthdegree2]

I've played ever since beta. Yeah the community will complain about most things about Bungie. Bungie this and Bungie that. While most of it is complaining, there's some valid criticisms I've seen to Bungie. Personally, gambit is intrinsically boring and it's ironically not its fault. It's the game's fault in some entire way. Mixing pvp and pve sounded cool until you hear about how they cant truly fix either or mode alone perfectly or near perfectly. The enemies are so like meh to fight and the players or invaders always use the same weapons thats not even from the game mode itself. They essentially combined oddball PvE sandbox with cornball PvP meta and made gambit. That is a terrible idea. If they can't fix the PvE and PvP then what the hell were they expecting when developing gambit? That's my issue. It's not the "game modes" fault it's the games fault and the devs in a certain way because the produce this game and make it strive. Adding shadow legion is one step but one step alone. I'm sick of fighting basic taken, scorn, fallen, hive. It is just so underwhelming. Cabal too. I mean you kill enemies, they drop little credits, bank them in...then win? It's to...simple I feel like, like yes, the invaders add a new dimension to this gamemode but that dimension becomes so like void when all invading is: going through portal with EOT and spamming it. Wow that's really invading huh? I just wish they were more extravagant with this gamemode compared to the others but I don't make the rules.

[@CharlesSpadina3030]

I think maybe the fervor is because of how binary it feels: “if we make a new Gambit map then we can’t make exotic missions ever again”, and even if that’s an over exaggeration it still rings hollow in the wake of how underwhelming everything feels right now.

[@Cardinalsqr]

Honestly, I just really want Gambit to be replaced with a proper arena/wave based mode. I’ve always treated it as a glorified arena mode and the best games of gambit I’ve played are consistently the ones where no one on either team invades.

[@atsukana1704]

I find that boring after the first game

[@TIX3L.]

Don't get your hopes up. It's not like abandoning gambit will free resources to do so. Apparently gambit is abandoned since witch queen refresh but they only told us now. Shame tho, if they they would rebuild gambit from scratch or make something new in it's place then i would be happy. However i feel like that witch queen "rework" was the best thing they could do for non paid content. Maybe we will see some very good seasonal activity that would replace gambit instead of going away

[@Nthdegree2]

​@@atsukana1704Elders wasn't truly bad though in d1 and what's realistically stopping Bungies bringing it back or retconning it in d2 and making it actually good?

[@Wormy_fren]

​@@Nthdegree2I enjoy prison of elders, but the main reason why I enjoyed it was because of Variks and his almost praising tone. I dunno just something about Variks' voice just genuinely lifts my spirits up. He's just nice.

[@FireFallFilms1]

The D2 community in a nutshell: Community: Why is this still in the game? No one really plays it anymore. It sucks. Bungo: Hey, so we noticed that player engagement is low in this particular area of the game. We've given it some reworks and buffs and loot, but that doesn't seem to have changed anything so we are considering taking it out of the game. Community: OHMYGOD HOW DARE YOU!! I PAID FOR THIS CONTENT! BUNGO SUCKS BC ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS MONEY. Pick a side folks.

[@richardbertrand9939]

Imagine if they turned Gambit into an extraction shooter.

[@rayhinojosa69]

When they announced the playlist rewards being 9 of whatever you want and the weekly challenges not being gambit related anymore, my clan was CELEBRATING. Them calling it on gambit is a tremendous W. Just something about that game mode never played well it always felt bad. I cant put my finger on it.

[@Commander_Pika]

That has always been my take. Meta for gambit (and even pvp) is a greater contributing factor to the "fun", feel, and health of the mode than adding a new map or 2. It's fine to want these things, but taking a step back to diagnosis why you feel these things (hate, apathy, loathing, enjoyment) can provide more clarity and insight to the situation. And gambit isn't dead. I'm interested to seeing the shadow legion and lucent hive get added!

[@ZayTheOracleArchive]

Solo Reckoner here. Gonna leave my 2 cents to hopefully help people understand. Because I don't believe its getting mad for the sake of getting mad, but I understand how it could look that way. Majority of people enjoyed gambit in the beginning. Fun, fresh, the main problem came from heavy outliers like Sleeper, Queenbreaker, etc. But there's been no reason to play it since 2019. And when it did get content in 2019, it was the only content for an entire season. It made people hate it and it was a brutal grind from multiple avenues. Fast forward to today, and it's had nothing. We literally have fewer maps than we did 4 years ago. The "rework" in Witch Queen arguably made the mode worse. Bungie can say "oh but we've put so many changes in" but when those changes are a detriment yeah I'm not gonna feel any sympathy. (How did they fix the heavy ammo complaints? Give everyone more heavy for doing nothing! Great idea!) Also rewind to Joe's old twitter thread, talking about getting the "ball rolling" on new crucible and gambit maps, probably gave people certain levels of hope or expectations. They held 2 gambit labs, which was honestly a pretty nice twist on the mode. Banking enough motes gave the OTHER team their invasion. It was nice. And then it went silent. A single playlist weapon per season is not a reason to play the mode. (The majority of which are mediocre with a few exceptions.) Ultimately, its Destiny, and its 2023. This isn't 2007. Playing a mode for the sake of playing a mode isn't fun unless its this wild new and fresh thing. Having something meaningful to chase is important. Which Gambit hasn't had for years. Not to mention, the most efficient and arguably fun way to play Destiny each season, is to wait a month or two in, when more content, more story, and more seasonal challenges are available at once. Compounding onto the fact that "people aren't playing gambit." To echo others, its a "self fulfilling prophecy". If you don't make good/meaningful changes, people won't play it. We all hoped it would get better, and that's why you've seen the outcry you have. There was a time gambit was enjoyable. And even when it wasn't for some, those that did enjoy it had a reason to play it. That reason is gone. Vendor ranks aren't exactly a well thought out prestige system either. oh wow I can guild dredgen for the 12th time? kinda hard to care about it at this point. Bungie has a really fun habit of introducing new features and ideas and not really touching them again. (Remember when they said they were excited to introduce new mementos? That would've been a fun thing to throw into dungeons or raids.) So yeah, from the outside it probably looks like "wow they made fun of gambit for years and now are mad its abandoned? what idiots" but its really not that simple. Being forced to play a mode that had problems was the annoying part. Its frustrating to see something with the potential gambit had/has to just end like this. Could've made better changes, could've made it a horde mode like cod zombies or something, literally anything. Strikes and crucible have similar problems too tbh. It's not just gambit. Anyways. Rant over. P.S. Gambit Prime was 10x the mode current gambit was, even with the unbalanced armor sets.

[@itslethal4050]

Just add Gambit Prime, I loved it and felt like I had to strategize.

[@magsiii6055]

Adding prime back with Reckoning as Master level content with adept weapons would be amazing.

[@itslethal4050]

@@magsiii6055 Exactly. I never wanted to hate Gambit or anything and what were asking isn't much

[@JPOG7TV]

I loved that mode. I wear reckoner proudly

[@Resonosity]

The ideas in this thread are amazing. We get an Opulence-like playlist every season these days, and Strikes have Nightfalls/PvP has Comp/Trials. At the very least Bungie could have kept Gambit Prime in to give difficulty diversity. Idk if Reckoning would work these days since people might want armor for the mode to drop from the mode itself, like how Artifice armor drops from raids/dungeons and Adept guns drop fron Flawless Trials. If Gambit was treated as a core playlist as time went on, getting the Adept weapons updates as Trials and GMs did, maybe engagement in Gambit would have gone up. We saw how Bottom Dollar drew people to the mode. Idk

[@CuriousLumenwood]

I would say it’s bold of Datto to defend Bungie “Game Development is Hard” Incorporated but it feels like every single time there’s negative feedback on the game and/or Bungie’s actions, Datto is right there with a video wagging his finger and saying “Um actually, game development *is* hard and the community are whiny little babies that should feel bad about being mad”

[@k3nnyisgood238]

I think there are a lot more Gambit-enjoyers than people realize (im one of them). Gambit labs was literally nothing, literally. It changed absolutely nothing about gameplay. Every change they made to the mode was the opposite of what players wanted. And frankly it doesn't matter if they did work or not, it matters if the work was effective. Excusing the neglect of Gambit because of players not being interested when players aren't interested BECAUSE of Bungie's neglect, is not a good take, and i think the people upset about it are valid.

[@The8thBeastHunter]

As a Gambit enjoyer, being told we get another map in rotation and new enemies (which none have been added since launch) got me excited. So thanks for the send off gift Bungie.

[@LightCrib2]

I still don't know how they haven't tried just disabling heavy during invasions yet

[@nikachu_i_choose5233]

I feel the issues with Gambit are about the same as the rest of the core modes. Except it doesn't have an "endgame" or "competitive" mode. If you look at base strikes or base pvp, it's all kind of a lull. Gambit really is fun now, just not a focus anymore.

[@RennekerA]

My idea to fix Gambit is by changing the Invader system. Instead of invading with your load out you invade with a relic tied to your subclass. They could use the Mind Spear for Arc, the Scythe for Solar, the Taken Relic for Void, for Stasis they could retool the Diamond Lance and I can’t really think of one for Strand. Make it like a Super some resistance but not invincible.

[@4VWill]

I'm not even a Content Creator but I may need to record a video explaining why I feel like you're so wrong, Datto. The history of Gambit and why Bungie is in Sunk Cost Territory is just a series of constant fuckups and poor choices.

[@lilgamerguy]

I think the reason for some of this response is bungie basically said "the revamp we made did nothing to make people play gambit, we're going to ignore the fact that the revamp was underwhelming at best and actively bad at worst, and just drop support for the mode all together" that's what ruffled my feathers with the gambit statement But I do agree that there has been a massive overreaction as there usually is with destiny players

[@Lantec1000]

I think my biggest gripe is it's not even a gamble to be an invader. There's very little downsides to invade, especially if you banked all your motes before you went over. If you invaded and get killed, big whoop, the downtime is the same as any death. If you managed 1 kill on the other side, you've healed their primeval or dropped their motes. There has to be a "gamble" to gambit. More consequences to invading, like you get killed as an invader, any primeval healing is reversed or something.

[@CheshireDude]

I've always thought that killing an invader should give your team one stack of Primeval Slayer, even before the Primeval is up. That seems like a balanced way to make sure you're only going to invade if you are confident you can make it worth it and a fair punishment if you're wrong.

[@Resonosity]

Good point. There's a gamble with the other roles. Collector gaining as much as 20 motes is risky because an Invader can come in or ads can knock you out if you find yourself in a pinch. Sentry can be risky because not being with your team to kill ads, instead being closer to the bank, might mean that your team gets taken out faster by ads which then halts progress. And then if you do leave the bank then there's also a risk of blockers showing up and draining too many motes. Idk if I really see any gambles for Reaper or Invader tho, like you say. Maybe for Invader if that player dies prematurely, without getting any kills, then that sucks like a large blocker's worth of motes from the opposing team, giving it all or half to the killing team's bank. As an Invader you might time when to invade depending on how many motes your team has collected rather than going in ASAP and not really having consequences For Reaper, idk maybe their amount of health rises over time as they kill mores ads. The risk here is that a Reaper would want to kill more low-level enemies first to stack up HP levels faster, but then high-level enemies do more damage to you and can take you out faster if you don't focus on them first. But killing 1 high-level enemy yields the same amount of health as a low-level, so you earn your health back slower by taking out the bigger baddies, but also take less damage since you take out the bigger baddies first. You'd want the health replenishment to be linear so that you don't game the system by hiding, killing ads first then bosses second Idk, maybe some of the above was present in Prime but those are just some ideas of how Prime could have had more of a gamble factor, ur right

[@Ocachino]

I reckon Gambit with the addition of the "new" ultra enemies like Brigs, Wyverns, Tormentors and Hive Lightbearers would be quite good, but if we could get Kell's Grave back as well i'd be happy

[@Benjiizus]

What Datto doesn’t seem to understand is the fact that people aren’t falsely outraged about Gambit’s death. It’s the fact that they have are deciding not to make the game mode playable. They ignore community pain points like invasions being OP and other things and just scrap the mode entirely, telling us it’s our fault we don’t play it

[@ClassyAssassin0]

The way it was written in the state of the game it sounded like "we have to kill gambit so we can make the same amount if pve content weve been making anyway", and i think most of us make the same assumption as to where that development time is going and i dont think thats an unreasonable assumption to make based on bungies milk it while we can approach to destiny lately

[@TheKazu42]

I loved Gambit Prime. Each player having a role and perks for that role was really fun. They removed my favorite part of the mode.

[@jerryballstein]

I feel like the only two memorable or impactful roles are collector (for the 20 mote giant blocker) and invader. Invading has always been overbalanced - one good invader with 3 bad teammates is infinitely more likely to win than a bad invader and 3 amazing teammates. And being a 'good' invader mostly consists of running whatever meta cheesy heavy weapon is popular at the moment.

[@TheKazu42]

@jerryballstein I played the one that protected the Bank and I always felt like I had a purpose. I could help kill ads then quickly take out any blockers.

[@adamcrook4611]

I agree on how Gambit never really recovered after the sandbox issues. I honestly think the invasion system makes or break the enjoyment of a gambit match. If the invaders are bad, it's a boring "who kills the boss faster" game. If an invader is really good, it's oppressive feels not great. However, if the invaders are alright? If both teams invader can score one or two kills at clutch times, if centimeters on the boss health matter when the game's over, that's when gambit is fun. It's rarely, very rarely that.

[@Fatherjared]

Actually as a long time reckoner and 6 time guilded Dredgen I think gambit is in the best space it’s ever been in. I play competitive tournaments every weekend with a couple work buddies and we have an absolute blast!!! It’s intense competitive and pretty balanced. I love gambit and I really hope bungie makes it into its own game soon. I’m not really interested in their new triathlon game.

[@i_fuze_hostages6]

Exactly

[@transcendkira]

As it's own game it could probably work quite well, though I'd question it's ability to gain popularity over other PvP style games... In a game like Destiny 2 it'll be plagued by unfixable sandbox issues and has stretched the game too far from its core dev wise. Still a great game mode in its current format for those that enjoy the idea, and still sticking around. I'll still play it now and again.

[@aviatorengineer3491]

The conspiracy theory about Bungie wanting to kill Gambit is hilarious, like... this is Bungie, we've seen them yeet entire sections of the main story. What makes these people think they wouldn't just GET RID OF Gambit if they wanted it dead?

[@Equilibrium911]

Not wanting to over deliver is the cancer in the studio. There are no guarantees for tomorrow. They should’ve allowed their teams to go ham while they had the time and resources. Could’ve fostered ideas that would have saved PVP/Gambit

[@dylanmiller1140]

Did you not watch the video?

[@Equilibrium911]

@@dylanmiller1140yes i listened to Datto’s opinion. This is mine.

[@shutupyouclod5024]

I think people forgot the main criticsm that came from Season of the drifter a few years ago, which was, "we dont want to play gambit." We had a wholeass season of gambit, and nobody wanted to play it then! Why are we pretending we want to play it now!

[@adummy9664]

I felt like I was losing my mind seeing the entire community get up in arms over the announcement that Gambit wasn't getting any major support in the future and I'm just sitting here feeling like "Really, over the mode that everybody almost collectively says they hate?" to the point that the drama started leaking out of Destiny circles and suddenly people who never even touch the game were weighing in with their opinions. (Also people really caring about what their 4 Legendary Shards look like.) Like we got a "Season of Gambit" back when it was relatively new with Joker's Wild and it was probably one of the most disliked seasons of all time only beaten out by some of the true low points like Season of Worthy and Season of the Hunt.

[@thechickenhat548]

I think the biggest thing is that for a lot of the Gambit enjoyers, the Gambit meta itself hasn’t received any meaning changes. Yea Bungie adjusted the economy for power, adjusted the invasion timers, and adjusted the blockers. But due to the nature of the gamemode-it all still felt the same gimped version of Reckoning/Launch Gameplay. Honestly I think if they added some more maps back and either reimplemented Reckoning or Bo3/maybe have more lab sessions to really get what fits then Gambit could be improved. A bigger issue is that Bungie doesn’t have a team dedicated to the mode. With the Blackburn post earlier today it makes me wonder what would happen to Gambit if it had a dedicated team to truly experiment/make more maps. All in all Destiny needs an obscene amount of resources in order for the CORE Game to be great

[@hash8169]

I enjoy Gambit and I don't need meaningful changes, or Reckoning, or lab sessions, or a dedicated team. A new map and two new enemy types is a wonderful addition for my playing experience.

[@Marauders5]

My problem with gambit every season was that you felt forced to play it in order to complete the seasonal challenges. And 9/10 you get people on your team that doesn't know how to play properly. And 10/10 you get one shotted by a Xenophage across the map when invading or getting invaded. The gamemode just isn't fun anymore. I'd actually try gambit again if they removed power weapons all together and then lowered the health of all enemies so that you can kill them with primary ammo.

[@RefMr]

Problem is almost every change since Gambit Prime has been for the worse. So while yes they did spend hours working on it, it’s very frustrating to see they only changed and worked on what most consider “the wrong things.” They balanced the game based on trying to bring more casual people in, who were never going to be interested, at the expense of those who already liked the mode. Thus leaving no one happy. And in a big twist the mode has actually ended up in a surprisingly okay place, but that seems kind of in spite of itself or the balancing they attempted. As the PvE and Crucible sides got worse around Lightfall times the quick pace and easy matches of Gambit came to be seen as the best of the Rituals for a time at least. I still think Gambit is something special that they squandered the potential of, not just once, but multiple times going back to the removal of Prime and subsequent balancing changes since. Heck even Prime itself was scuffed with it being tied to the season and Reckoning. I believe forcing PvE players to engage with it back then is what created the initial hostility to it from the very beginning. I’ve made peace with it not getting much going forward and all, but I do not believe it’s players’ fault for abandoning it that it gets no love. Bungie should really look at the feedback players gave after those changes to see why people dropped off and not just look at pure player numbers with no context like they showed to us in the SotG.

[@flavoredwaters]

The revived defense of gambit is similar to the community suddenly forgetting that they hated the leviathan raid. The Levi raid was considered the worst raid in the game until its removal and then about a year after its removal people all of a sudden decided they loved it and want it back. Root of nightmares is the worse raid we have right now and it’s still significantly better than levi.

[@Resonosity]

6:45 casually glossing over Gambit Prime but aight Prime was arguably the best Gambit has ever been, and likely ever will be

[@Mugiwara2k]

I’m sorry, but I wholly disagree with most of the takes here. For starters, the so called “revamp” that Bungie did to Gambit was hardly the game-changing overhaul that it’s being presented as, as it only really changed how heavy ammo dropped and made the boss have phases to legenth matches… it did nothing to fix core issues that players had for years with the mode, namely how invasions as a whole works and stagnation with the mode. Also, Gambit Labs is hardly anything that should be used as proof of “See, they tried!”, when it was literally done only twice before they disappeared without a single word. Secondly, things like new maps and weapons absolutely would have driven engagement. Players having only the same 4 maps to play for years was one of the biggest complaints, and having more maps would have helped relive stagnation and keep people invested. Likewise, if Gambit had worthwhile rewards (Like Adept weapons), there’s no doubt it would have driven engagement. The idea that “rewards only would make people spend time in a mode they wouldn’t like” only applies to Gambit is slightly disingenuous, as that logic very much applies to modes like Trials as well for many people, but I doubt I’d see you making that argument there. The main point is that people aren’t upset “just for the sake of it”, there has always been a genuinely sizeable part of the community that enjoys the mode despite the neglect… the problem is that the “Lol Gambit sucks” bad actors (People that barely touched Gambit, but meme constantly about how ‘bad’ it is) unfortunately drowned out the voices of everyone else, leading to this idea that barely anyone likes Gambit. All of that is contributing to the idea that people are just mad now for the sake of it, which just isn’t true. The fact is many people like this mode, and are upset that it’s basically being abandoned when it could genuinely be great with any substantive attention (Maps, Adept rewards, returning Gambit Prime, ect.)

[@rainsong7773]

We had an entire season dedicated to Gambit and nobody liked it lol, if they just dropped it entirely and doubled down on fun and experimental game modes in labs I’d be a happy camper ✌️

[@UnnaturalGravity]

Originally I was part of the group wanting them to get rid of Gambit. But over the last year or so I remembered how fun Prime was and so I always hoped they'd bring it back in some fashion. Would it have changed the fate of Gambit? Who knows, but I know it would have gotten me to play more of it.

[@donalddavis303]

Prime should be like trials or iron banner

[@UnnaturalGravity]

@@donalddavis303 I could definitely see something like Prime running along side IB or have it's own week as well. Maybe even throwing the old ritual weapons back in the mix with randomized rolls?

[@donalddavis303]

@UnnaturalGravity yep, even creating adept weapons only accessible during that week. Also bringing the armor back into random drop rotation. Creating a trials like ticket could be neat as well

[@dadankengine4661]

TBH that gdc talk is the biggest reason why people are upset and say Bungie didn’t try. The ‘beware of over delivery’ screen is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen a dev say

[@DUnitDarkHorse]

Never thought we would be here but Datto is now the voice of reason in the content creator community. Great video! Love the new chill thoughtful measured Datto.

[@KingDJ524]

Players "honestly just delete gambit. We hate gambit" Bungie "Look. It's there if you like it. We won't waste time on it" Players " HOW DARE YOU WHY WHY WHY?"

[@Splungus]

I actually really liked the gambit labs they did a long time ago, (where mote draining could only be done by an invader) I never hear anyone talk about it

[@unkind3489]

Yeah it use to be on the armor that gambit prime invaders use too have but now if your smart just go invade when your team banked two blockers which does the same thing

[@shinyPikachux]

I like gambit because it's a competitive team race. It's also the same reason I liked SRL. I find Gambit to be a very casual racing experience around the core destiny mechanics. I think the only thing they could do to "fix" the mode is to give the invader a special relic weapon. It would let them balance the invader better.

[@kennethjames4915]

5 years of really bad support and really bad changes I'm sorry this take is way to defensive of bungos bad decisions with the mode. And I'll restate again the we can't do gambit because it takes away from PvE or whatever is just a bad bad bad excuse.... especially when you consider what they add that isn't in the eververse is becoming less every season

[@Fringewonder]

people really out here convincing themselves that new gambit maps will make them play/enjoy the game mode

[@Eivion]

Thank you for this. The community soapboxing about Gambit over the State of the Game annoyed me to no end. I'm one of those weird people who was quite fond of Gambit. I was hoping to see it get new maps, modes, etc., anything to improve it and garner more player interest. And the death of it as is still doesn't bother me much because I have been well aware of the community hatred of it for years now going back to Season of the Drifter. The sad truth is it never recovered from back then and the community tended to not give a crap about it outside of crapping on it. I also was happy to see you mention that Bungie absolutely did try to work on it and it just never worked. I hate how people keep talking about devs being lazy just because something turned out bad or not what they wanted. It is just horribly shitty to the people working on games and is the type of stuff I suspect makes them want to stop doing this at all. Its why the Bungie abandoned PvP talk kind of pissed me off.

[@spookydoggo_]

To be honest, I disagree with this take from the ground up. The foundation of this argument is "Don't be mad that Bungie is abandoning Gambit, because they tried to fix it, and it still sucked." Except they didn't try, at all. The "changes" made to Gambit never deviated more than minor gameplay tweaks. Three rounds down to one round. Less Motes. Different Blockers. Heavy Ammo spawns. In the video, Datto even explicitly addresses the core sandbox issues that affected Gambit from launch IN FORSAKEN: that being the impact of Heavy ammo, the lack of balance around certain weapons, and the domineering role of the Invader at all moments of gameplay. At no point in the FIVE YEARS of Gambit existing in Destiny 2 did Bungie even make a meaningful attempt to address this core problem. They tweaked, they shuffled, but they never actually tackled the issue. They never made fundamental gameplay changes that would have taken steps to fixing this problem: every change was only a small adjustment to elements of a gamemode that they KNEW wasn't working. So yeah, a new map, some new guns, a new Ghost projection every season: not gonna fix Gambit, and I don't think the community ever really thought it would. REAL changes to the gamemode - FUNDAMENTAL ALTERATIONS TO THE CORE GAMEPLAY - could have. Taking inspiration from other Invasion-based games and PvEvP game types like MOBAs. In a game like Bedwars - a literal Minecraft survival game - the PvP is dependent on resource collection and management to fund your incursions into enemy bases. Why not try a system where Invasions cost Motes? A literal risk reward using gameplay systems that already exist. In MOBAs like League, the goal is to "invade" an enemy's space and execute a boss that they defend. Why not experiment with switching up the Gambit formula in this reverse "attack/defend" style of game? Both examples also feature a prominent "mid-map," where player and environment encounters happen in a neutral space, which creates an element of zone control. Why not experiment with a game mode where an Invasion portal leads to a "mid-map" where players can fight, gather resources, and then traverse back or onward to the enemy space? These are all TRIED AND TRUE gameplay beats that work incredibly well for games of similar caliber. Yet Bungie never once attempted any meaningful shakeup. And yes, such a shakeup would have taken time and resources. And yes, it wouldn't have been a guaranteed success. THAT'S WHAT MAKING A GAME IS LIKE. Part of my frustration with Gambit's abandonment is that Bungie, a multi-billion dollar company with hundreds of competent employees at the top of their craft, have ceased any sort of "risky" game development. Is any safe, by-the-numbers, gone-at-the-end-of-the-year Seasonal activity more valuable than an honest attempt to save one of the game's CORE PLAYLISTS? If you ask me, no. And yes, Bungie is a company. They need to make money. But when it is so clearly coming at the DIRECT COST of the game's content to the point that an entire gamemode is completely abandoned with no real attempt to fix it or make it enjoyable, that is a failed business model. TL;DR: Bungie never tried to save Gambit. They never tried to make the gamemode good, and ignored clear issues affecting the gamemode's playability from the start. Justifying their refusal to meaningfully rework Gambit by saying that current content is more needed to make money, only proves that the live service model is a failure. If the company's pacing and structure prioritizes the creation of new short-term content to the point that supplementing, updating, and fixing longstanding base-game content becomes financially "impossible," then your model is by definition a failure.

[@Viflo]

Datto, all due respect, we know that pandering to Bungie is your bread and butter, but please, just stop and go on that sabbatical already. You're a spokesperson for the company at this point. People have been respectfully asking for improvements and new content for Gambit (and PvP) for a long time. Instead Bungie does what you suggest they should do: "other parts of the game" (sandbox "improvements", whatever the hell that is). I know, duh right? It's easier to make videos about that.

[@unkind3489]

Ok not my idea but change gambit into a endlessly horde mode where your team has limited revives and the team that makes it to the highest wave wins

[@maxwellzembower7653]

His reaction to people protesting for gambit says it all. It's hilarious Datto has to explain this to people.

[@legionlessluke5104]

I’m with you on that. I’ve never liked the game mode, so you won’t hear me complaining. I do feel bad for the people who enjoy it though.

[@Nthdegree2]

He's valid but I thought it was interesting where he had to explain that Bungie simply has to work on other things for the game and their future IP. The "other things" they work on in destiny are changes that are sometimes bad and new seasonal stuff that is the most generic because of their boring seasonal formula. Only time destiny does good is when they release a new campaign, new raid, new destination with activities and that's it. That's literally it. The rest is complete mediocrity. They want to be fixated on Marathon when they can't even hammer a decent nail in destiny? Bungie is making some oddball decisions here.

[@ShadowDestiny]

Maybe the Witch Queen update was just too little too late. If Gambit had consistent, quality updates over the 5 years since release, we might be in quite a different situation right now.

[@vicewaves8899]

I think gambit prime should’ve stayed. It had the potential of being the “trials” of gambit