It's Time to Crucify the Bible - Deborah Grace

[@MythVisionPodcast]

Tim, your interview skills are amazing and I'm half way through Deborah's book now. Bravo bro!

[@andrewxjw]

MythVision brought me here! Thanks!

[@rolandwatts3218]

There is so much good stuff done by you guys - this site, MythVision, Paulogia, Pine Creek, Godless in Dixie, Deconversion Therapy, Digital Hammurabi, etc., etc., and etc.

[@timetoreason181]

It was you MythVision who introduced me to this channel. Loving it as much as yours!

[@timetoreason181]

@@rolandwatts3218 Yes they all are my favourites too.

[@j77778]

This was a Great imbeautiful guys. it was very heartfelt. I was in tears at various points in this interview. Thank you so much for reaching out to us.

[@athena3865]

You're lucky to have your husband see it for what it is so quickly and to support you in that. Mine just dug his heels in deeper and told me I am going to hell. Thank You for sharing the critical moments of knowing. It happened for me in Sept 2019; I had been studying personality disorders for many years to understand the trauma I endured my whole life, and then it hit me like a ton of bricks ...The god of the bible is a psychopath story; a moral god would not deceive anyone. My regret is not finding this out till my 60's; the heartbreak is almost unbearable as I spent a lifetime living for other people instead of following my dreams. Looking forward to reading your book....Thank You, Tim; so privileged to meet you, both.

[@rodb66]

I thought the husbands would let go of religious dogma and wives would cling to it and try to pull their husbands back in.

[@marcomoreno6748]

​@@rodb66why would you think that?

[@GoldAceNews]

You're delusional. Repent and I hope you can find clarity with the Lord Jesus Christ.

[@sherilausmann2791]

I was given the gift of a cold, cruel, dogmatic father who in my opinion strongly resembles this angry, jealous, murderous, child abusing, Christian God. I knew from childhood that all of these traits were not loving nor nurturing. I read almost constantly throughout my childhood and couldn't understand why all of my family and friends were so taken in by this monster. Especially the adults. For some reason I liked Jesus much better. I knew that his miracles were like magic and I tried to understand so that I could also heal and help those who needed it. I have now found the answers I so desperately wanted. I hope the same for everyone on this journey.

[@LeeByerly]

I'm so sorry I'm going through the same thing. 40 years of mental illness all due to Christianity and I was so talented.

[@j77778]

I love the way you are still in touch with how Christians think and feel Tim. You have empathy. love that bro

[@marcomoreno6748]

Lol most Ex-christians and particularly exvangelicals are like this, myself included. I can still speak "Pentacostalese" quite well, I can still even speak in tongues on command. I practice often as satire to get points across to people for whom reason and evidence just doesnt click. We're not "angsty edgy goth atheists" who are miserable all the time angry at our fathers and "God", as many PoF would like to have most believe.

[@atheistmom3591]

Another great listen. Was especially moved by hearing you both discuss how Christians tend to ignore/ostracize “traitors” to the faith. I was homeschooled all the way through and my dad was a minister, so when deconverted I fully expected my parents to at least question why I became an atheist. But no - instead they stopped texting and calling me. I reached out a few times, but they avoided the topic. When I started bringing up specific programs/doctrines/issues - they pretty much told me I was making everything up and misremembering my childhood. Eventually I chose to cut them out of my life because of all the guilting and gaslighting, and boundary crossing. It really does feel like I lost my whole family in a an accident. Top it off with “losing” Jesus and my world turned upside down. You couldn’t pay me to go back though. I’ve finally seen the light.

[@deborahgracectb]

Oh my goodness! I'm sorry about your experience with your family, but I'm very glad you were able to see your way out as well!

[@mdug7224]

💎🏆🏅

[@athena3865]

Their behavior is like that of a cult, because it is. I'm in the same boat. Their delusional belief is mind-boggling; that is why they have to keep indoctrinating themselves with it.

[@Marc010]

Amazing. I knew the Bible was the ultimate in plagiarism but not to this extent. Thanks Deborah.

[@jenc7173]

Excellent interview! Thank you for taking the time to produce this. Its comforting to know I do have a community to turn to for comfort if and when I need it. I too felt a great deal of peace when I came out of the fog of Christian beliefs.

[@dreamzofhorses]

It’s so nice to spend a Sunday morning undoing those Sundays that came before listening to truth, rather than trying to do mental gymnastics, thinking I was bad when I disagreed or rejected some biblical preaching from the pulpit by some man. Thank you for the discussion that often parallels my own experiences and coming to the same conclusion without the need for convincing or threats of eternal damnation unless I fell in line. I had already realized the fake love of most other Christians when they did not “walk the talk” (from pastors to the congregation) and had abandoned me at my darkest hour (serious life threatening illness of my child, ultimately saved by science and doctors). It was my child’s secular public school that stepped into the gap and provided support emotional physical and financial for over a year. I think that is where the crack in the delusional wall began to separate and allowed the light of truth to shine in and expose what these people were really about. They did not even notice when I left, after years of attending church 3xs a week and faithful tithes from my meager income. Glad I found my way out of the whole mythology eventually, and so glad to have found I was not alone thanks to people like Tim and others (Mythvision), biblical scholars and hearing the de-conversion stories like Deborah’s. I will check out Deborahs book! See you next week!

[@dreamzofhorses]

@@zamiel3 unlikely as I was already questioning things that didn’t make sense to me (always had in the back of my mind) but I think my doubts were pushed aside to keep up with what I saw so many others believing (including my family) and my fear of going to hell. I had been raised in the Catholic church from birth and had already left that as an adult in search of the “truth”, going to Baptist, then Assemblies of God (charismatic Pentecostal) to non denominational evangelical Calvery, when I finally gave up on the “church”. I then dove deep into the Bible, attended Bible classes, studied Aramaic to follow Jesus. The truth was always what I was looking for because there were so many contradictions and differences each sect or group claiming to be the “right” one and it’s my eternal soul after all and by then my children’s souls were my responsibility too. The more I searched, studied the Bible and saw the problems in conjunction with real life experiences the more I realized the truth that was there was there was no truth in the biblical scriptures, and the more I saw mans’ hand involved in various interpretations, manipulations, for their own purposes, while claiming to be the infallible word of God. Furthermore there were promises made that were not kept. How does a all knowing, all powerful God make promises he does not keep? That’s on God, not any mans fault. Yet believers would insist He is always faithful and good. I checked out other faiths too and spirituality in general… I didn’t even see a lot of the conflicts because I wouldn’t allow myself to study anything outside of scripture or Bible based teachings for decades. Once I did that - study history, mythology, science and evolution, to name a few, it was over. I’m a truth seeker. It’s just who I am. I sought the truth so I would not be mislead or be a fool, and so to live a life “pleasing unto the Lord”. One way or another, I think I would have gotten to where I am today. Of course this is the condensed version! Lol. But what I did learn was, The truth (the whole truth) WILL set you free.

[@tyh3120]

@@dreamzofhorses If you have doubts, go to the Christ, not to a man! I have prayed for many Muslims, they all saw the Christ, had vision, got healed. Ask, and you will find. You need to meet HIM.

[@mairca80pais96]

Both these people are airhead The guy went to became a pastor and said he knew very little of the Bible. The woman says her FAITH is Atheist. I think they are trying to get hits on the internet to get some much needed attention.

[@tyh3120]

@@dreamzofhorses Even the Christ was denied by His own Church in Jerusalem, but still He didn’t choose to create His own church outside the traditional one like most pastors do. I was called out late as a missionary in Europe, especially among Muslims. I pray in tongues 1-2 hours / day, everyday went to library to study the Bible, shared the Gospel everyday in the streets....with abundant miracles, especially around Muslims, with my own money for 14 years, until the voice of the Holy Spirit called me out of Paris. I saw the cathedral Notre Dame of Paris burned before my eyes, I was ready to leave Paris fallen as Sodom and Gomorrah...... Unlike you, I never thought that I would have the perfect truth. ( Paul said that we know everything partial, until we see Him.) I just pushed forward, to have more truth. One thing I wondered -why the Antichrist Islam wanted so badly Rome and France ( the first daughter of the Catholic Church for Its croisade on Islam) One day I entered into the traditional Catholic Church in Latin ( the only one left in Paris ), the Holy Spirit told me vividly that this is the Church founded by the Christ and His apostles in the times of Gentiles. I had my best, beautiful services of all my life in this Catholic Church in Latin for 2 years. But the antisemitic roots are so strong ( because of the first persecutions from he Jews ). The time of the Gentiles ( outside Jerusalem) is close before ours eyes; this Pope will be the last one. Rome will fall like Constantinople in the hands of the Islamic Califat resurrected by the Turkey. The great tribulations are ahead.....

[@campfireaddict6417]

@@tyh3120 You prayed in tongues 1-2 hours a day -- when you could have been volunteering at a homeless shelter. You went to a library to study the Bible -- when you could have been using that time to visit a sick child in a hospital. You shared the gospel everyday in the streets -- when you could have been helping at a foster home.

[@mdug7224]

1:06:45 I totally experienced this point. When you are talking to people who are so tunnel-viewed in their faith, they just cannot compute that there are folks who just don’t believe there is any god as described in any religious text.

[@tyh3120]

It’s so easy to destroy, which gives a person a sense of power. Go to a desperate people, then you will have plenty of miracles, like the afghan Christians facing the death penalty of the Apostasy. I have prayed for lots of Muslims, they all saw the Christ, had vision, got healed. The Christ just showed up to them all the time. Why not to you?

[@mdug7224]

@@tyh3120 preying on the desperation of the weak is evil.

[@tyh3120]

@@mdug7224 Really? Be assured that I was a sinner, now saved. You want to listen how weak and evil I once was, and now SOOOOO nice?

[@mdug7224]

@@tyh3120 I will read what god says about himself in the Old Testament , the original translation from the oldest Hebrew version: Isaiah 45.7 ‘I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the lord do all these things.’ According to god, the suffering in the world is created by god. I have met many ex Muslims and ex Christians who left their faiths because of inconsistencies in the morality on their books. I do wish you well in your goodness and morality.

[@tyh3120]

@@mdug7224 Who is weak? An Afghan Christian ready to be decapitated for the name of the Christ, or an American who denies the Christ in a Christian country founded by his fathers? Is it possible that some Afghan Talibans come to repeat 911 again , and you cry for God’s help?

[@Larry30102]

Thanks so much for the vid. Great interview. Grace is a hero. Her book is really great. So many mind blowing lessons. All the violations in the crucifixion story was so eye opening. Never seen it from this angle.

[@stephenanthony1056]

Loved the book and the interview. Thanks for both. Keep it coming!

[@shmataboro8634]

Oh Gosh! Thank you for this! I was raised Mormon, deconverted, a d then over time deconverted from Christianity altogether. When I was Mormon and some well meaning Christian would tell me I was in a cult, or that Joseph Smith wrote the Book if Mormon himself I would think "I've read the Bible, I study the Bible, and it's amazing that you don't see that you yourself are in a cult". It used to drive me nuts.

[@iw9338]

So true 😮😅❤

[@cindychristman8708]

Tim, I so appreciate your work and kudos for getting such great guests on your channel! I just bought Deborah's book and can't wait to dive in.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Awesome!!! And thank you, Cindy, for your encouragement; it means a lot. --Tim

[@deborahgracectb]

Thank you so much and I do hope you enjoy it 😃

[@Rose_Ou]

My story is very similar: Christianity, Messianic Judaism, Judaism, Deism, Buddhism, Atheism. I've been a happy atheist for many years and I never look back. All the fear and guilt are gone.

[@mdug7224]

It’s a great thing being outside the bubble.👍

[@jefftaylor19]

Yes, Satan's system is fear. People are cruel and abusive. But, humans can dissociate themselves even to the point of sociopathy. Having no REVERENCE of GOD is no proof for the Non existence of God. Satan wins when he makes people think he does not exist and that God's laws are fake. -Christianity is a distorted polytheistic religion, although Jesus gave us God's word, the Gospel. -Judaism is a distorted polytheistic religion with multitudes of rabbis giving their worthless opinions. The rabbis are their god's. (Talmud is not from God) The Torah was from God and is distorted also. Islam is a Satanic Cult where they follow the hear-say passed down known as hadith. They do not follow God's scripture. The Quran is a replacement Scripture. God knows how much distortion was placed into the Bible. This was allowed to let the minds of the true disbelievers follow those distortions. God replaced the Bible with the Quran, and the Quran is like a Rosetta Stone for knowing what is actually true in the Bible. God sent a messenger to our time. Dr. Rashad Khalifa. We now know what happened to our religion. We were supposed to worship God alone according to scripture alone. Since the scriptures got so distorted, God replaced it with a complete and fully detailed scripture where the point to our existence is repeated on nearly every page. There is only ONE entity that can help any of us at any time, and that is the Creator who is sill creating your life based on your deepest convictions. Peace. Here is a link: submission.org/introduction.html

[@GuitarDog_atx]

@@jefftaylor19 " Satan's system is fear" says the guy proselytizing a theology that threatens eternal punishment for not bowing and praising him. Even the name of the link you sent, "submission", is repulsive and offensive. Why would an omnipotent, caring god allow his holy word to be "distorted"? Why would an omnibenevolent god send a messenger while ignoring 99% of the world's population? On 2nd thought, don't answer those questions. I grow tired of weak excuses for a being who shouldn't need excuses.

[@jefftaylor19]

@Barney Rubble Hi Barney, I've always liked you. Look, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are all Satanic cults. We know this now. If they would have obeyed God alone by being strict scripuralists, and worshipped God alone, and lived a righteous life, they would make it to heaven. But almost no one worships in this way. Jews follow the Talmud, a human made book, instead of the Torah. The Christans follow the church fathers and Paul instead of the Gospel from Jesus. The Muslims follow hadith instead of the Quran alone. We know this because God sent us a messenger to clarify and unify all of our religion. Dr. Rashad Khalifa was that messenger, in the 1980s. He taught to worship God alone using God's scripture alone. Quran was the final scripture, and was translated into the lingua franca of this day, English. He discovered the mathematical composition of God's scriptures. Now we have a proven scripture from God. Now we should obey it. Here are the links. This could be a great day in your life. This is the great news of our lives. submission.org/introduction.html www.masjidtucson.org/quran/ReadQuran.php?appendix=1

[@etherego2913]

@@GuitarDog_atx God isn’t one person and the bible clearly states this. Also the bible isn’t supposed to be interpreted as 100 percent literally. Most so called “Christians” and atheists seem to interpret it that way. Humans who sin/ give into negative energy represent the fallen angels. And True love/ the person God made perfectly for you to mate with is definitely real and is available for everyone. The bible and alot of ancient religions are allegories. Sex before marriage/fornification means don’t have sex until you meet the person God (aka your soul) made for you, marriage and weddings/the modern day and government ways of marriage are two different things and that’s what alot of people don’t understand. You can have a good long term relationship with someone that isn’t this person but it’s rare. Eve being made from Adam’s rib is to symbolize that there souls were once one, made in God’s image (genesis 1:27) It’s pretty much saying God is your soul/spirit and it’s made up of masculine and feminine energy. Every man represents Adam and every woman represents Eve but most aren’t with there Eve or Adam. Man has to lead woman by being in his natural masculine energy then the woman can follow and get back into her natural feminine energy and stop being deceived by abusive/demonic/ narcissistic men. Women who fall for those types of men most likely have bpd (which can be cured) /self worth issues and are represented by Lilith. Lucifer turns into the Beast which represents ego/negative energy/ fear/the devil falls off the tree/kicked out of heaven/ garden of Eden when they give into him and is allowed to run the earth and Adam and Eve are kicked out of the garden of Eden which symbolizes the new earth/earth paradise and separate from each other/God. So to get back to God aka there true selves/soul and the Garden of Eden they must work together and destroy the negative energies inside of them/stop sinning and get satan back on the tree. Adam also represents the masculine/left brain/ positive charge. Eve represents the feminine/right brain/negative charge. The tree represents our spine and the cross since we are born with 33 vertebrates and Jesus ascended into heaven at 33 years old. The tree also represents Moses’s staff with the serpent on it. Lucifer on the tree and in heaven/Jesus Christ on the cross also represent the sexual/holy spirit energy that connects to our pineal gland. It’s all about ascension and using both are left and right brain but still maintaining our natural energies as male and female that the evil elites have been trying to the destroy. The two becoming one references in the bible are talking about your brain and the person you’re supposed to marry. Jesus’s wife is Mary Magdalene (she was a prostitue so she had self worth issues, spirit of Lilith) Adam and Eve represent the fallen souls/couple and Jesus and Mary Magdelene represent the ascending souls/couple. Hercules and Meg from Disney’s Hercules represent them as well and the whole movie represents the process. The 144,000 in the Bible represent the couples who unite successfully and will teach the rest. Also you experience alot of supernatural synchronicities with this person. I notice alot of people who say they’re experiencing this relationship don’t bring up the supernatural synchronicities and when they do it’s usually a big reach and far from supernatural. I feel that it’s up to the man to reconnect his soul aka God first, be in a good balance with his left and right brain, start no fap/semen retention, not sleep around, and just do his best to become righteous then God will put his wife in his life like it says in genesis, and then they can start working together and clearing the negative energies before fully and permanently uniting/marrying. Once they do that then they can show people that God and true love exist

[@mdug7224]

1:13:25 escaping abuse control. It is the same situation and response experienced by some abused wives who have finally escape their partners.

[@TheAfroAtheist]

This was a great conversation 👍🏼🙏🏽

[@tyh3120]

Who can come after the Christ, but the Antichrist? Europe will be Muslim; USA, Communist.

[@j77778]

Wow you guys have taken your passion to a whole new earth changing human evolving level. ❤️

[@mattmason7657]

Excellent Tim, Keep the interviews coming great to listen to other peoples experiences.

[@tyh3120]

I prayed for many Muslims, they all saw the Christ, had vision, got healed. You need this kind of experience.

[@campfireaddict6417]

@@tyh3120 Healed from what? Were they sick? Did they have Covid?

[@TheHookahSmokingCaterpillar]

@@tyh3120 Can you provide names, dates, confirmatory testimonials, medical reports? Anyone can make a claim. You need to provide some evidence.

[@tyh3120]

@@TheHookahSmokingCaterpillar The muslims are the groupe of people who know the most Miracles. Maybe because of the death penalty of the Apostasy. You must know that no one wants to share the Gospel with Muslims in the Church. That’s why God called me out of my business so that I could do it with my own money, in my own localities. You can tape google, a lot of testimonies . My own aunt was possessed as a young woman. She was healed by the Christ. The family has been repeated her testimony.

[@tyh3120]

@@TheHookahSmokingCaterpillar When I see how you have apostasied and dare to spread the lie against the Christ, while someone like me had to abandon business, stays single, risked my life among the Muslims that no Church wants to save, I am full of anger! The Apocalypse predicts the massive decapitations among the apostate West. There will be no pity!

[@andrebrown9251]

Has anyone found the video series that she mentions that she watched with her husband by Scott Shew? At 1:12:15. I tried to find it with no luck. I’m sure I’m not spelling his last name right, or the production company that she mentions.

[@razrhd8348]

Tim shared that video series in an older thread: "The New Testament Unveiled" by Beit Tefillah Productions (Scott Schubbe).

[@chamomiletea9562]

I'm definitely ordering the book. I really appreciate the mix of shared feelings and well gathered research. The list at the end is something I have come to look forward to as I watch these videos. I always pick up on something new to look in to.

[@deborahgracectb]

Thank you so much for your support! I would be so grateful if you would leave a review as well - I welcome genuine feedback.

[@chamomiletea9562]

@@deborahgracectb I just ordered it for my Kindle and will be sure and leave a review when I finish reading. Keep up the good research.

[@davereese6614]

What a wonderful person. I really enjoyed this discussion. Thanks!

[@AgcidentallyAgnostic]

My fave interview ever!! Cuz I 200% relate with Deborah!! I went into the Hebrew Roots Torah observance too!! And when it shattered, I felt gutted!! I feel for Deborah as she describes the heartbreak!! It’s so ironic that some of us went down these various doctrinal and theological paths- like fundamentalism, Calvinism, Hebrew Roots, whatever- BECAUSE we WANTED to be SO devoted, SO obedient… and then we realized it was a dead end 💔 Now I’m told that “lying spirits” have led me astray. Really? Lying spirits drew me into deeper and deeper devotion and radical motivation to uproot my life in order to be obedient?! 🤷🏻‍♀️ Okay. >>> This is why I can rest SO easy in my deconstruction: I was as devoted as I could be until the floor gave out from under me. Much love to Deborah ❤️ Thanks, Tim!! Amazing interview.

[@thedude9941]

What's Hebrew Roots like?

[@AgcidentallyAgnostic]

@@thedude9941 Of course there are many flavors of Hebrew Roots, just like denominations. But in general, I kind of considered it as a giant conspiracy theory- we believed that modern Christianity had been led away from the lifestyle that God had laid out for his people in the OT… all the laws and feasts and everything had been spoken for the good of His physical, and now spiritual, people group, and we sought to return to living in those ways. Not for salvation purposes- we still believed Jesus for salvation. But the thought was- if He has adopted us into His family, then we should care about how He wanted this family to live, how He wanted them to celebrate and not celebrate certain things, eat and not eat certain things. And a lot of our efforts were spent trying to dive deep into Paul’s teachings, and contort things Paul said to fit into how Jesus said: “If you love Me, keep My commandments.” It doesn’t really work, but boy, we try to make it work. And then there are those who end up giving up on Paul and saying he is the lawless one, and he shouldn’t be in our Bible! That Paul stole away what Jesus had set up! 🤦🏻‍♀️ And then there are people who go further and start to see that Jesus Himself doesn’t fit into the stuff originally prescribed to the Hebrews… then a lot of people bail on Hebrew Roots Christianity and go all the way to Judaism. I almost did. But luckily the whole thing collapsed for me and now I’m just free.

[@thedude9941]

@@AgcidentallyAgnostic Interesting, the Hebrew Roots movement sounds like the biggest mess, in all Abrahamic faiths. What prevented you from converting to Judaism?

[@AgcidentallyAgnostic]

@@thedude9941 I had discovered too much information- information that had basically nulled the New Testament for me. So, I pondered joining Judaism for like, 36 hours, but then I thought: “If the NT can be nulled for me, then surely the OT can as well. Might as well save myself the heartache, and just excuse myself from all of it.” 🤷🏻‍♀️ I also suspected that I was wanting to hang onto remnants of what I had previously thought was truth… If Christianity had failed to be true, maybe Christianity was the big, horrible conspiracy that had sprouted from the TRUE truth- Judaism. I could tell that that was an emotional response though- I wanted SOMETHING to be true that I was already semi-familiar with. But what I want and what is true can be two entirely separate things. So I was just done.

[@Neon-Shadowcaster]

Thanks for yet another great interview!!!

[@KELLY-maybeiCudBeUrGirlfriend]

Very interesting! Very helpful as always! Thank you Deborah Garce & Thank you Tim Mills ❤❤

[@zzyzx4228]

Another great interview. I just ordered Deborah’s book on Audible to listen to on my morning walks.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Awesome, thank you for your support! --Tim

[@deborahgracectb]

Thank you! 😊💛

[@masonnix9566]

@@deborahgracectb You don't seem mind the police telling you how to live your life.

[@ivywindsong]

Great interview! Thank you both!

[@lauraalcala1759]

I love this interview so much! I myself am a mexican in te process of deconverting from catholicism. Thank you both, this was very helpful. I would like to watch the video series that Deborah talks about, could you please share the link or name? Thanks!!!

[@joycesky5041]

Excellent video! Thanks Tim and Deborah! I think that with all the research that's been being done over the last 20 years, and with the internet and all of our Atheist communities across the planet we are finally reaching people with platforms like Tim's, MythVision with Derek, Pine Creek with Doug and many other podcasts people are starting to wake up! I read some statistics a few months ago and it showed that church pews are emptying out little by little! Do I get an AMEN? 🤣 The stats are showing that the number of Atheists/ Agnostics/ & NONE'S have been going through the roof over the last 20 years which is AWESOME! I'm 65 so I know it won't happen in my lifetime but I hope that eventually kids will no longer have to grow up with the mental illness of indoctrination. Yeah it's such a strange experience when we see the truth and try really hard to un-see it but then come to the REALITY that it's IMPOSSIBLE to un-see the TRUTH! I have so many edits in this comment but I can't help it because I can relate so EASILY to everything as this video continues so I have to keep stopping it and then add another comment...Yup, when we become apostate, evil, demonic 👿 heathens they either shun us or try to love bomb us in order to reel us back in... the so-called love 💕 bombing is a DELUSION and an ILLUSION. Yes Tim they are threatened by us.... my favorite saying I tell Christian's is that their god committed suicide and they can't wrap their brain around it...then they look at me like a 🦌 deer in the headlights or like I have 3 head's and I'm an alien 👾👽 from another planet!🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@AAwildeone]

It's hard to make this long story short...but I deconverted when I was 16 from Catholicism. Except I had been going on "pilgrimages" every year to Quebec with my wonderful grandmother since I was 7. The Oratory in Montreal, Our Lady of the Cape at Trois Rivieres, and St Anne de Beaupre in Quebec City. My very last time, I was taking buses and trains everywhere, but not attending Mass. My grandmother didn't care, but THEY did lol

[@traog]

I found the part about how when Deborah left no one came to her to find out what happened, same with me. I've often wondered about that, was I that insignificant to all these people that when I walked away not one of them noticed that I was gone, I live in a small town most of them know I'm still here. Deborah is probably right, they just don't want to find out, I may say something that shatters their very fragile beliefs.

[@marksingleton7199]

The problem is that the people dont understand the Bible and the priest does not know the truth so cannot teach it. If you question the poor english translation of the Bible you are thought badly off. Simply because it embarrasses them. Imagine that for years you believed a false interpretation. Look deeper and in joy the ride.

[@traog]

@@marksingleton7199 I did look deeper that's why I left.

[@razony]

FEAR! Christianity is all about fear. The ONLY time I know of, when fear is good for a anyone. Including animals. Is the 'Fight or Flight' scenario. Other than that, only really evil people use fear to bind you into their psychosis. It worked for me in Christianity. I chose flight and got out as fast as possible!

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

I love the enthusiasm you bring to your interviews.

[@tyh3120]

The destroyer is always zealous. Go to the Christ, ask Him question. He will come to you.

[@rodb66]

Being a better person and showing love other people doesn't necessary coincide with Christianity. In fact, Christianity discourages people from self improvement because it's looked as being of this world.

[@andrewkayla7994]

Great interview Tim. Loved this and I can relate with her and you.

[@lh1673]

I woke up cuz of OT gruesome stories but I didn’t know at all NT had similarities with those other mythical stories. Thanks for the info.

[@Matira269]

1:54:34 I had to smile when I heard that, because I had an adult relative literally put her hand in her ears, and said "la la la la la", to me when we got into a discussion on The Bible.😊😊😊

[@Lenergyiskey358]

😂 They think you are spewing words from the Devil.

[@chaiman3761]

Is the god in OT and NT the same or different?

[@PBAmygdala2021]

Great question! A whole branch of christianity developed in the mid-second century based on the conundrum that the two gods seemed like completely different characters. A guy named Marcion invented his own deity named Yaldabeoth to cope with the issue. He created one of the major versions of Gnosticism. Do a Google search for those keywords to learn more. There were Sethian Gnostics, Valentinian Gnostics, and many more. I find it fascinating how religions often start, or branch apart, in times of strife. For example, modern historians are starting to piece together the history of Christianity, without pressure from the church to "maintain the story". It seems that christianity as we know it began to emerged after the destruction of the 2nd Jewish Temple in Jerusalem at the apex of the 1st Judeo-Roman war. It was a Jewish fable (one of many written at the time such as 4 Ezra and 2 Baruch). It was written as a method of coping with that enormous loss. The "Jesus" character was written as a surrogate replacement for the lost Temple and its corresponding Yom Kippur annual sacrifice.

[@GuitarDog_atx]

Yes, the god of the OT and NT is the same. There are many verses that corroborate that. This means that baby jesus, meek and mild, is culpable for genocide, rape, and slavery.

[@bradypustridactylus488]

They are ostensibly the same, but if you look at personality and attributes, they seem to be very different and conflicting personages. I see four gods in this pantheon. Yahweh, the god of the OT, Father in Heaven, the god of the NT, the Trinity, the god of Christianity, and the god of theology, the Three Omni's.

[@andresdefideebookscriticos3333]

Long story short: it's the same shit!

[@campfireaddict6417]

Same guy. He just took excellent anger management classes, obviously.

[@campfireaddict6417]

"Your teachers have told you of an angry god, a jealous god, a god who needs to be needed, and that is not a god at all, but a neurotic substitute for that which would be a Deity. A true Master is not one with the most students, but one who creates the most masters. A true Leader is not one with the most followers, but one who creates the most leaders. A true King is not one with the most subjects, but one who leads the most to Royalty. A true Teacher is not one with the most knowledge, but the one who causes others to have knowledge. A true God is not one with the most servants, but one that serves the most... Therefore making Gods of all others."

[@sliew9120]

if the story of scripture is true about Christ,that he the creator of all,sacrificed himself to become created a helpless babe,to be grown up by human parents and to learn of his mission as he grew up,reading the scriptures and learning of the rabbis,that he was to be sacrificed for the sake of humankind,to to go ahead with the plan knowing the outcome,knowing the pain and rejection that was coming his way,regardless he pursues the goal knowing that the sacrifice will remove whatever sin you had committed in your life and to restore the connection between the Father and mankind,to give you the opportunity to regain what was lost by Adam,then i think you need to add one more to your list Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends

[@mikebarnes7734]

It seems that in any religion that is the last place that you would realize God. Those who exploit others for wealth and control by misrepresenting the thuth out of ignorance or design deserve the worst condemnation.

[@Beegee1952]

I would have walked out of the church when one of John McArthur’s misogynistic sermons infuriated me. The only thing that stopped was not wanting to embarrass my husband. Needless to say I never set foot in there again.

[@Beegee1952]

@@tyh3120 Whose truth are you talking about? ALL religion is man-made with no scientific proof of its reality or validity.

[@tyh3120]

@@Beegee1952 Science? Who creates the Science? Can a scientist tells you where you will be after the death?

[@tyh3120]

@@Beegee1952 If you can explain God, it means that this idea about God of yours must be fake. I have prayed for many Muslims, they all saw the Christ, had vision, got healed. You are not desperate enough for asking for God! Try, challenge Him, the Christ. He will definitely answer you.

[@Beegee1952]

@@tyh3120 You are free to believe in man-made mythology and fantasy with all its misogynistic trappings if you want - I prefer truth.

[@Beegee1952]

@@tyh3120 I believe when our electrical system stops we cease to exist after decomposition occurs. If you enjoy fairy tales - go for it.

[@mdug7224]

50:00 Ergot infected wheat was probably the cause of revelations in my loose opinion.

[@traog]

Or hallucinogenic mushrooms.

[@hangedman821]

@@traog You're both wrong.......revelation can only be interpreted through understanding astrological symbolism. And obviously you both dont. For example.....the four horsemen. The three autumnal signs of the zodiac (leading up to the winter solstice} are the following.......Libra,Scorpio and Sagittarius. Take one of those signs........Libra. Libra is symbolised with a set of scales.......and what are the chances one of the horsemen is carrying a set of scales? It's not by chance.

[@traog]

@@hangedman821 You are likely correct, but being high would likely help. 8)

[@hangedman821]

@@traog Sagittarius is a man/horse/bow. What are the chances that one of the horsemen is a man/horse/bow? 2 out of 3 to me : )

[@donaldhawkins5209]

Debora. Tim. Just want to say this podcast really touched me and send a big hug

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thanks, Donald!!

[@deborahgracectb]

Thank you! 🤍

[@ksteed1167]

Again, the comments here from such loving bible-believers has helped my understanding. Thank you, Tim.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thank you! So glad to hear that.

[@eg4848]

Youre great at interviews! One can tell you were really entrenched in this thing. Do you have any interviews with former catholics or orthodox (who were serious and not just cultural)? Curious about that thanks!

[@lucilleavakian833]

Tim, your content is so affirming. I've always had a lot of problems with religious scripture, Christian and otherwise. I was raised as a nihilistic athiest. Athiest is fine, nihilism is very destructive, especially to a young child, still working that one through. When I came to become a born again Christian in my early 20s it was a mostly lovely experience, and I knew it was choosing to allow myself to believe a story and reaping the rewards of that belief. It's like going to a movie. Or choosing a movie. So if life is an illusion, which illusion is suitable to you. I was also raised Unitarian Universalist where we are all charged to come up with our own truth. A group where everyone comes up with their own truth can be boring, lonely and rediculous. But it's also home. Ha! Thank you for your content. I hope full time You Tube is successful for you and other deconverters.

[@sharia.king-trahan28]

Thank you for sharing this. ❤

[@Matira269]

Does anyone know the passage in Hebrews that says that the law had been corrupted?

[@catherinebanks6420]

Great interview. Thank you!

[@Jasper_the_Cat]

As I listen to these testimonials, I'm often reminded of John Milton's words from "Areopagitica": "I cannot praise a fugitive and cloistered virtue, unexercised and unbreathed, that never sallies out and sees her adversary, but slinks out of the race where that immortal garland is to be run for, not without dust and heat."

[@raymondtaylor6049]

😮

[@JLFAN2009]

I've always suspected that the heinous crimes committed by the God(s) of the Bible -- especially the Old Testament -- were really committed by men, but attributed to God (called YHWH).

[@curbroadshow]

The gods of the Old Testament were a pantheon called the Elohim. Yhwh was one of the minor gods of the pantheon. It was only around the time of the Babylonian exile (c. 600 BC), that the exiled priests rewrote the old myths with yhwh as the monotheistic god. That’s why there are two contradictory genesis myths, two flood myths, two sets of Ten Commandments. Genesis 1 has the Elohim (translated from Hebrew as simply god) creating the universe (“Then God (Elohim) said, “Let us (plural) make mankind in our (plural) image, in our (plural) likeness”). Genesis 2 chapter 4 starts the story again, this time with Yhwh (translated as Lord god) creating the universe in a different order, with a few embellishments thrown in. This runs all through the OT, with the priests who rewrote the stories urging everyone to now worship the ‘highest’ god, yhwh.

[@LuminesBreezer--]

​@@curbroadshow this really helped, as I'm deepening my studies on it now. It's something I've been looking for, even as an atheist for a few years now. Thank you.

[@curbroadshow]

@@LuminesBreezer-- This is a good lecture series kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6CQin9jodtmiLs

[@jimpostlewait7400]

Thank you so much for your great interview with Deborah. After 2 years of watching atheist KZbin channels I’m writing my first comment so please forgive me if I bounce around a little. Not from a religious family but was confirmed in the Lutheran church, my parents thought it was good for me. Never really went to church but got married to a catholic 30+ years ago. Went to mass on Sunday and raised our kids catholic. I always went along with the readings even if I thought it was stupid but raising a large family and working all the time it just becomes part of your life. 2 years ago I started watching KZbin videos on archeology and early human discoveries and that led me to actually start thinking about the things that get preached from the bible. It took no time at all and I told my wife there’s a lot of horrible things in the bible and I don’t want to worship such a monster. She has been a member of Opus Dei for quite a few years now so super strong believer and prays and goes to mass everyday. When I bring up some of the most common sense arguments she will say things like how can all the saints be delusional, what about the unbroken chain of popes all the way from Peter and what about the smartest saint ever, Thomas Aguinis. Catholics have much more then the bible they have all the oral tradition, the fullness of the truth. She can’t believe I would listen to the mud slingers on KZbin and destroy my relationship with my family. I tell her I can’t make myself believe something, but if I would just pray about it sincerely for 30 days, I’m sorry but that won’t make me believe in all the supernatural claims in the bible. So do you have any recommendations for books I could get her to read, she claims she seeking the truth but she also claims she has the truth. Thanks

[@stefanheinzmann7319]

Oh shit! Opus Dei is the fundamentalist end of the Catholic church. If your wife is actually into that, there may be no book at all that might help.

[@ronaldlindeman6136]

There are quite a few books to recommend to explain why Christianity is not true. Picking out which books to start with is hard to do because there are so many. I have been reading about books on why Christianity is not true for almost 40 years now. I have read a lot of them. The book that this video promotes might be a good one, I haven't read it though. A book I might recommend. Sworn on the Altar of God; A Religious Biography of Thomas Jefferson. Read only one chapter in the book, 'Chapter 2, Student of the Age of Enlightenment. It gives great reasons why Thomas Jefferson did not think that Christianity is true. It is even in the Declaration of Independence with the words, "Laws of Nature and of Nature's God" which means not to use Story Gods from the ancient world for our Laws. Use Reason for our Laws. Then there is a book, "Gospel Fictions." By Randel Helms. The book explains how the writers of the Gospels of Christianity used the Old Testament writings to create some of the Stories in the Gospels. So the events in the Gospels are not the way they are because of actual events, but because they used the Old Testament for how events must have happened. Then there is the best selling book for Atheists, "The God Delusion." By Richard Dawkins. Probably the better overall book. There are a huge amount of books to read on this subject. It also helps to get general books on Philosophy and make sure to understand time periods past the middle ages and into the Age of Enlightenment. Many Christian Philosophers like to stop at the middle age Philosophers. But humanity went beyond that Age and for good reasons. Christianity is not true and understanding the Philosophy of the years 1500 to 1700 is very important to understand why many people do not understand why Christianity is not true. The book "Sworn on the Altar of God" does that.

[@stefanheinzmann7319]

@@ronaldlindeman6136 The first obstacle you would have to overcome is to have her read any book at all that isn't vetted and recommended by her spiritual leaders in Opus Dei. Perhaps she would agree to read the book of Enoch. One could then ask her why it isn't in the catholic bible, given it gets referred to by texts in the bible. The basic problem is how to teach someone critical thinking who is positively afraid of it. She might want to castigate herself for getting tempted.

[@deborahgracectb]

Rather than books, she might respond to street epistemology. Gentle questions that lead to critical thinking. Disarming the emotional attachment in the response is super important. There's an entire YT channel dedicated to that methodology.

[@jimpostlewait7400]

@@ronaldlindeman6136 thank you so much. Exactly what I need. She said she’ll read books that I find to support my argument and will then point out all the flaws. She has a degree in science and math and is logical thinking in everything except when it comes to religion, and then that cracker and wine really do turn into the body and blood of Christ and she believes every other absurd claim that Catholics believe.

[@SandyFerguson-o8z]

It takes a lot of faith to believe that life , our amazing bodies with males and females with the ability to pro-create and this complex universe just created itself. What do you see that does not have a mind behind it? Nothing. And yet the world and life just randomly came into being. I do not have that much faith. The mind behind creation is God.

[@inreallife21]

I’m having a hard time finding out more about the plagiarism of the Bible on KZbin. Could you do an in depth video on this? Thanks!

[@theburialmusic]

The 2 lists that you spoke of...where can I find these? I’d like to share them with some loved ones.!

[@sladechimera2837]

I need the link to that video series!!!

[@deborahgracectb]

kzbin.info/aero/PLnTV1-sg8LdbMt2moTRe-NG2_YC94Wcv7

[@razrhd8348]

Tim shared that video series in an older thread: "The New Testament Unveiled" by Beit Tefillah Productions (Scott Schubbe).

[@jasminemariedarling]

I want that prayer book you had almost published! Sounds amazing!!! I absolutely loved your explanation of seeing God's Code all over everything as Neo from the Matrix seeing the green code for the first time. I'm a newer Christian who's always been obsessed with The Matrix (my dogs are named Trinity and Neo). I was an athiest for almost 40 years so I completely understand people's skepticism and issues with how they perceive the Bible. However I've experienced too much at this point leading me to believe. I enjoy hearing all perspectives so I find videos like this interesting.

[@bobself7189]

They don’t make Grandmothers like they used to!!

[@NaythonCross]

They've been saying "He will return soon!* For 2000 years now ..

[@Fourwindsofsuccess]

From 66 - to 2022 they have been claiming the world would end in severe disaster, famine, death, a major battle between ‘Jesus v. Satan’, and the suffering of human beings for not becoming ‘saved’ converted. While all the ‘saved’ religious people will fly to the top of the sky safe away from all the ‘tribulations’ occurring on Earth. According to this Egyptian-American biochemist's research on the Qu'ran, the world will end during that year 2280. Christians are betting on 2028 for the world to end or a rapture to occur. Kent Hovind who’s a convicted domestic violence abuser against his own wife & been convicted in prison put out that mess but claimed to be a pastor according to my research. This world will continue and never end.

[@zeenohaquo7970]

Their wishful thinking

[@mdug7224]

42:11 look up Eudaemon from Greek theology for reference to the concept of deities influencing or interacting with the physical world. The character Jesus would class as an eudaemon for Yahweh.

[@blairfranklin7320]

I'll never go back to being a theist.

[@robmullin1128]

I love the Bible and I love God. I am always saddened when I see people walk away from God but this is a personal choice they make.I am not afraid to listen to differing views.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Sad because people give up ancient Canaanite mythology and blood magic as a worldview? Sad to give up a human sacrifice death cult focused on scapegoating? It's mythology!!! Giving up mythology as a worldview is an extremely beautiful and healthy choice.

[@Peace2dagawdz]

Grow Up. The world doesn't revolve around you.

[@grimlund]

I sometimes compare Bible believing, worshiping to drinking. Drinking booze can be fun but then it isnt anymore. Thats when you realize that you had enough of it. The alcohol just poisoning you and the cons is way bigger then the pros. Then you decide to quit. Its the same with religion I think. When you come to the point were you realize that the religion is poisoning your soul rather then building you up as a person you finally leave it. Thats just the way it is.

[@raccoon6072]

If your god is omnipresent how the hell can walk away from it?

[@catherinekramer7459]

It's not a religion .it's a personal relationship withGod ...we all have to choose to do good or to do evil ...ilove God very much .and I'm grateful for His word. That's why He gave us a new covenant because the old was death .We all can not obey and keep the ten commandments ...Doing all christian things and going to church does not make one a christian , nor sleeping in the garage does not make one a car ...it's really a personal choice ..so it's OK to be able to agree to disagree ...As long as you are comfortable knowing where your everlasting destination is .As for me I will continue to walk in love because without ❤love then life is not worth living for .

[@laceysophie9514]

I came out of Hebrew roots a couple months ago

[@Lenergyiskey358]

That jesus camp movie was scary as... Thank you for sharing your story Deborah.

[@timothymulholland7905]

I admire your stubborn search for truth, even to the point of losing your reason for being. I’m sorry you suffered so much for it. “There is no hate like Christian love.” “Poopface”! WOW though I was raised in the Evangelical subculture from birth through college, I suffered very little when I saw through it all. Maybe I never really believed. Good luck to both of you!

[@ringo666]

I've not read the book, not do I have near the list of unresolvable s Deborah and tim describe. While I may read the book, I don't feel a need. I know the O. T. is Hebrew mythology. I know the N. T. is a pack of lies. Note: Tim, we didn't come from primates, WE ARE PRIMATES. A more developed cerebrum and opposable thumbs are our primary separators. The others -- skeletal structure differences, less hair, variations in skin tone, etc -- are examples of ongoing evolution.

[@MarlaMartenson]

Great book title!

[@pissanukatika3720]

Bible means “books” Jews wrote many books may be a hundred and Christian chose 39 books to be used in their Bible together with other 27 man/ made books written in the 4 th century .

[@jullemoe]

1982-2020 July = Jehovahs witnes - christian ( for 3 months) - January 2021 atheist🧐💪😊freedom

[@jullemoe]

But it was the hardest thing I've ever been through 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵

[@wvblank42]

Awesome stay strong!

[@benpenuliar3852]

What video was she referring to?

[@deborahgracectb]

kzbin.info/aero/PLnTV1-sg8LdbMt2moTRe-NG2_YC94Wcv7

[@Zxkylar]

What video series was that? Viyet Tofila? Scott Shue? Unable to locate. If this explains why Jesus is not God. Sounds like a very important and interesting watch. Please give exact title or presenter. Thanks 🙂

[@deborahgracectb]

kzbin.info/aero/PLnTV1-sg8LdbMt2moTRe-NG2_YC94Wcv7

[@HarmonicAtheist]

The New Testament Unveiled kzbin.info/aero/PLnTV1-sg8LdbMt2moTRe-NG2_YC94Wcv7

[@Zxkylar]

@@deborahgracectb ❤️ Thank you very very very much 🙏. If only God, Jesus or Holy Spirit, answers prayers that fast and not make it a guessing game of : yes, no or wait for the right mood 🎱. I/we don't even have to do our own searching 😊 links 🤗🎉🎊 Take care Ms. Deborah Grace 💖💐💎

[@Zxkylar]

@@HarmonicAtheist Thanks very very very much also ❤️. Your response was 20 minutes earlier than Ms. Deborah Grace ❤️. Why can't God do the same? No song and dance needed. I just asked 🧞‍♀️🧞‍♂️ and I received 🤗

[@agamgaf3407]

Great!👍

[@texasbama5729]

Facts ❤ why is there no mention of a law against pedophilia? Being there's nothing new under the son ☹️😡🤦‍♀️

[@montymartell2081]

I believed in God once too and then I turned 7🎉

[@KatalinValentine-t7i]

God need us more than we need him. But we dont need him at all!

[@KatalinValentine-t7i]

@@dianestafford6968 Thank you, but i dont need the Father or Jesus.

[@wramsay6]

I pray that you are never on a crashing plane, because there are no atheists on a crashing plane. You WILL be praying to someone. I guarantee it.

[@stefanheinzmann7319]

You have no way of guaranteeing it. You just believe it to be so. And I very much doubt it. Anyway, even if it was true, what would it show? That people who are under the influence of existential fear are more likely to pray to a god, no more. Is that why evangelical apologists are so readily threatening eternal damnation? This whole argument is despicable.

[@deborahgracectb]

Divination is against the Bible... that sounded like hoodoo. You should repent for trying to predict the future. 😏

[@joelmouton9365]

Lol the No atheist in foxholes fallacy and appeal to emotion fallacy. When you use this argument you’ve already lost. Also there are atheists that die atheists you saying otherwise means you know everyone’s thoughts so I guess you’re god? lol. Sleazy. Disingenuous and pathetic.

[@martinsavage9015]

Good work Tim.

[@TREVORALLEN-tl4yt]

The true revelation, that of de conversation.

[@carltonmckally7081]

Pople who are new to this truth need to manup. Salvation is that carrot used to control you.

[@pwoods100]

Tim - I read the book of Enoch!

[@sunflowerhelen9933]

Maybe it's because of my programming, but I really don't understand why the fact that New Testament authors copied from Greek writers discredits the Bible. I don't believe any longer that it's inspired, but that argument doesn't resonate with me.

[@plants_and_wellness1574]

Yeah I wish they would focus more on the fact that the New Testament completely contradicts the Old. God says no one can die for another(Ezekiel 8:20-30 Jeremiah 31:29), God says he doesn’t want sacrifice (many verses repeating this), every knee will bow, every tongue confess to Yaweh (not Jesus), God alone created everything (NT says otherwise), God doesn’t share his glory with anyone( Jesus said his father shared his glory with him), there is no other God besides him (people claim Jesus is also god)… these are just a few of the verses that woke me up. . I watched a lot of Tovia Singer videos that helped me a lot also.

[@simonthompson2764]

This channel is one of the best for critiquing lifelong beliefs.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thanks, Simon!

[@stevenbolin7688]

Out of the Ashes is a very good series of books also

[@Pablo113]

Grace, your Mom was Extremely TRIBAL

[@solomonessix6909]

Looking forward to the delivery of my book order. 😀

[@fernandoalarcon8534]

This is mind boggling.

[@jasonb4321]

Neville Goddard has a totally different take on the Bible’s purpose as a road map for exploring consciousness and not as a literal book . . .

[@jasonb4321]

And since you went into ‘Yahweh’, Neville’s take on the Tetragrammaton as a tool to help us understand our inherent ability to use our imagination is fascinating 🧐.

[@jasonb4321]

I really enjoyed this interview.

[@justinpridham7919]

Heeeeeyy Harmonic! Excellent title for a book huh? Heck, for the video for that matter. It's definitely clickbait-y for people like me. Keep up the good content brother.

[@deborahgracectb]

My hubby came up with the title 😁

[@justinpridham7919]

@@deborahgracectb That's really very cool. It's nice of you to enter the comments! I hope you get more exposure and your book does well. Cheers

[@GonzalesLanguages]

I agree with someone who asked, why is it that just bc the bible is full of problems and as a Southern Baptist i agree with that, preposes there is no God, no creator? How do you come to the conclusion that everything including human existence come from nothing? I may not believe in any account of God in the Christian Judaic bible, but i still believe in a superor or higher God above all 36,000 man made religions.

[@bellezavudd]

Tell them there's a 'falling away" and whenever they hear about anyone leaving the church it strengthens their gullible faith. Gullible because they refuse to acknowledge the massive psychological manipulation inside the text of the bible. Making it a book of mental coercion, for a religion of secret & unconcious controll. A narative surviving thousands of years after its cruel and demented creators have long perished.

[@offline34]

If while reading Matthew 24 one attempts to place many of the verses in the context of any other time in history it fits. There have always been times in history when these exact things have happened. This is why so many different Christian denominations have predicted Christ's return within the last 200 years. It's astonishing at how many have said "it's beginning to happen" and then it never does. The founder of the church I used to belong to predicted Christ's return at least five times. No Jesus. In my last 12 years there they kept saying it could be within five years or less. They are still saying that. I think the most frustrating aspect to this reasoning, if it can be called reasonable, is that EVERYONE in any of the denominations believe they are 100% sure of it. If verse 34 is read in context of the passage Christ said that this generation he was currently in would be the one in which these things would occur. If read out of context or manipulated to mean another time in history then any interpretation is possible. By faith (belief without evidence), anything is possible. Even interpretive gymnastics...

[@mdug7224]

@@dianestafford6968 crazy stuff. Like Luke 12. 35-48 (horrible!) they like their slavery in the bible. Apparently offering your daughters to a crowd to stop them harassing your guest and then committing abominable acts with them in a cave doesn’t seem to cause a stir though (Lot). The bible is just like Greek mythology in its depravity.

[@PBAmygdala2021]

The nasty problem with brainwashing is that it shuts down the only part of the brain that could help a person escape it on their own: the logical reasoning center, found in the prefrontal cortex (PFC), specifically the dorsal medial and ventral medial PFCs. When a person is exposed to enough stress and trauma over a period of time, they become forced to adapt for their own perceived sense of survival, and the emotions take over. Normally the emotions only help out in crises or panic situations. But the right amygdala in the limbic region becomes the decision-maker, making all choices to protect against all perceived threats. The amygdala is supposed to protect us against rustling in the bushes (which might be a predator), or moving our hand quickly away from fire or a hot stove. But in modern times the amygdala can get hijacked, over-stimulated, dominant, and thinks that it needs to protect us from anyone who thinks differently. To help people escape from brainwashing, it begins with compassion, support, and genuine listening. The people suffering from brainwashing are so frightened by things that they are physically unable to examine your points of logical reasoning yet. Set aside your strong desires to "correct" them. Be honest but not accusatory in sharing your concerns. The trick is to come from a place of love so that you won't be perceived as a threat. Gently help them to feel safe in exploring new questions, entering uncomfortable territory, and allowing their curiosity to return, all without setting off their alarm bells. Read ahead of time on "how to help someone escape brainwashing". It took a lot of effort on someone else's part to brainwashing them. It will take just as much effort, if not more, to free them. But it can be done.

[@mdug7224]

@@PBAmygdala2021 Thanks for the detailed insight. Appreciated.👍

[@PBAmygdala2021]

@@dianestafford6968 I can appreciate that your faith and the community that comes with it gives you strong feelings of love, connectedness, purpose, comfort, and reassurance. My brain works a little differently. I am a curious person who asks lots of questions. I'm not comfortable and reassured until I seek out answers to those questions, and until I find verifiable evidence to support those answers. I'm like the TV detective who keeps at it until he's figured out who the killer is. So in a way, we have different methods of how we go about reaching the same destination: comfort and reassurance. I am familiar with the stories of Jesus and how those stories impact the lives of believers. But as a curious person I have also taken the time to learn that there are over 4,000 different religions in this world, and over 32,000 different versions of christianity. Those facts right there tell me that I cannot take comfort and reassurance from any one of them, because one of the others might actually be the truth. So I've got a lot of investigating to do! I suspect that my answer won't make you feel comfortable, so you might feel an instinct to rebuke it. That's fine, because I also recognize that refuting opposition is a form of comfort. I invite you however to try something new and different: Instead of telling me I'm wrong and awful, tell me something genuine, something personal, something authentic about your position, from a place of compassion to help, rather than from fear to defend or attack. Maybe we can learn something from each another.

[@teachmetheway7081]

It is Amazing how so many atheists (former "Christians)) are falling and failing into atheism on account of the 'deep' literature review they finally did on the Bible. The question i ask muslims i am asking now to any atheist (former "Christian" or otherwise): If the Bible is not true, how does that automatically make the existence of God not true? (Please think carefully before attempting to answer this comment!)

[@teachmetheway7081]

@Button Wizard Your first sentence: correct but my first claim was: If the bible is not true how does that automatically make *GOD* not true (not "God of the Bible")

[@teachmetheway7081]

@Button Wizard "I don't need to give any wild idea credit just in case it might be true." - So on Monday September 10 2001 , the wild idea that 19 hijackers would commandeer four planes and fly them into two tall buildings and two other government buildings in the US didn't need to be given any credit????

[@teachmetheway7081]

@Button Wizard I hope you see the ill logic of that statement you made. You say and state things thinking they sound atheistic-ally intelligent but are in the real world sufficient to lead to the deaths of many. whether a day after septermber 10th or any other. Now, if the Bible etc. and its claim that those who reject the Messiah will spend a christless eternity in a place called the Lake of Fire is the wild idea then tell us are you truly going to still tell yourself that you shouldn't humble yourself to enquire of its potential veracity?

[@teachmetheway7081]

@Button Wizard you are glossing over the issue with wordplay. Please i like the general slant of your position but deal with it honestly. I put you one day before September 11th. I will add this to make it even stricter: You are the director of the FBI and receive a rumor of that wild idea. What do you do?

[@teachmetheway7081]

@Button Wizard And the fact that you are not going to cancel your plans is somewhat honest but foolish i would say (not being disrespectful). You take out insurance for health, car, home, travel, collectibles, profession etc., all on account of a future possibility that many times don't happen for the random person. yet for the wildness of the idea provided to you by a reliable enough witness based on the testimony of many other people who have interviewed said alien from whichever galaxy you don't cancel any plans??

[@teachmetheway7081]

---------------------- On the author of the book in question in this video, is it reasonable to conclude that her christian life was just 'fundamentalist' and not experiential? Jesus who was crucified under Pontius Pilate is recorded as saying that the person who builds wisely i.e by digging deep - into bedrock will be able to handle the figurative storms that come. It is amazing the difference in outcomes. She questions the Bible,found discrepancies and is sure that the original intent of it is pure fiction. I on the other find much the same discrepancies / issues and become more fascinated by them and recognize the Bible is really what it represents. All the while still maintaining that relationship with the 'unknown' author of the Bible narrative. I concede that the issues of the Scriptures we now find are disconcerting especially if we continue to call every publication of it "the Word of God". However, on closer examination we see Jesus referring to the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms as prophesying about Jesus himself. Yet this deconvert from Christianity is thinking it sensible to not examine the evidence of the statement of Jesus in the Bible and to throw out everything.

[@deborahgracectb]

You're using the claims in the bible, simultaneously, as evidence for it?

[@teachmetheway7081]

@@deborahgracectb How so?

[@joelmouton9365]

There are no eye witness accounts of any of the Jesus accounts. The gospels are not close to first hand accounts. Yes there was a Pontius Pilot and yes there were many messiah’s. Jesus was simply one of many. The evidence you speak of is not evidence it is heresay. It is weak and unsubstantiated.

[@teachmetheway7081]

@@joelmouton9365 Give me the first century source for any of your claims.

[@teachmetheway7081]

@@joelmouton9365 I am willing to take 2nd and 3rd century sources as well, but no source later than 300 AD

[@jabel5]

Storage units! LOL. I better get my junk out so they have room for all of those left-behinds. (I bought your book and I'll post a review in Amazon.)

[@sizzlinbacon9718]

So, I’m watching JESUS CAMP. Oh my word!!! This woman had the COLOSSAL gall to criticize someone’s weight??? Gevalt!🤦🏾‍♀️ Has anyone followed up with these children?

[@karnobot9814]

On fire for Jesus is something christians been telling me what happen after I die.

[@TheHookahSmokingCaterpillar]

"On fire for Jesus" Wasn't that what Vikings did to Christians in churches?

[@bucsanders7861]

She doesn't know who Robert Price is?

[@deborahgracectb]

That's a "curse of knowledge" bias. Not everyone has come across the same information, but I remain proud of my accomplishments regardless of not knowing who Robert Price is.

[@bucsanders7861]

@@deborahgracectb My accomplishments were when I was THREE YEARS old I knew Xtianity was bullshit! LOL!! They told me the Noah's Ark story and Jonah and the whale and I laughed and I laughed and I was THREE!!!

[@markrichter2053]

And? Is Robert Price another god?

[@marksingleton7199]

The whole text is a metaphor using life experience to give a greater and deeper understanding.

[@jasonc0065]

If you put yourself under the law, you are committed to obey every kkkommandment. If you believe the Bible, you are committed to apply every teaching. If you delete anything from the book, you will be deleted. It's the same curse. Bible = Law. The Bible is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more.

[@Matzah1982]

The sacred name of HaShem in Hebrew comes from the Hebrew verb Hayah which means to be. Like in exodus 3:14 it’s ehyeh asher ehyeh meaning I will be that I will be being the imperfect singular masculine of hayah. The Tetragrammaton is derived from that. Keep in mind that Hebrew being a Semitic language it shared similarities with Canaanite and other near eastern languages. That doesn’t mean that as Jews we got our G-d from the canaanites. It could be that the knowledge of the one true G-d was such common knowledge that the pagan canaanites corrupted the concept much like we see with the similarities between the first part of Torah with pagan cosmogenies. The similarities actually confirm the truth of Torah even though certain texts among the pagans predate Torah it seems to be that Torah seeks to present a correction to the corruption of a universal concept of a deity making man and putting him in a garden and expelling him and sending a flood. We see in Torah the concept of both male and female being made in the image and likeness of G-d. That concept of equality was unheard of in the ancient world. In other ancient cosmogenies only the rulers were made in the image of the gods. Also the story of the sotah in numbers 5 is not a priesthood ministered abortion. It was meant as a way with the bitter waters of jealousy to prevent a jealous husband killing his wife from jealousy which in other ancient cultures was a common practice. Keep in mind that Torah was a product of its time and though it gave women a lot of previously unheard of rights like inheritance rights and the right to glean food and to be taken care of if raped by the rapist having to marry her (which keep in mind in that culture a woman who was no longer a virgin lost a lot of her marriage appeal so it actually protected her and any child that maybe conceived by the man having to marry her and provide) the Torah only limited certain things of the culture of that ancient world ( like slavery and male dominated patriarchy) but it got the ball rolling for the greater justice we have today 3500 years later

[@stefanheinzmann7319]

As advanced this may have been in relation to other 3500 years old cultures, I'm afraid it doesn't compete with modern cultures any more. It seems where others have progressed, the jewish culture is still held back by this iron age stuff they can't get out of the way.

[@Matzah1982]

Well it all depends on which Jews you encounter. It’s like the saying if you ask 10 rabbis for an opinion you will get 10 different answers because that’s the nature of Judaism is to ask questions as opposed to having all the answers. If you encounter the orthodox community it depends which type of orthodox because the chasidim and the traditional orthodox are a bit more rigid in their interpretations and applications of Torah than the modern orthodox and then you have the conservative movement which is more middle of the road and then the reformed and reconstructionist movements that really don’t go much by Torah at all. Even in ancient Judaism like post exilic Judaism of the 5th century bce up to the year 70 there was different sects within Judaism like the tzadokim which only accepted Torah and the perushim which accepted the whole Hebrew bible and the sages and the perushim won out after the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem by the romans in the year 70 and the perushim became the orthodox tradition which was the standard until the late 19th century so there are a lot of different ways of being Jewish and most Jews don’t live by the Iron Age ways of our ancestors

[@deborahgracectb]

You just proved a couple of the biggest points I made in the interview (and in my book), so thank you. Eisegesis to excuse heinous and unethical instructions reveal the cognitive dissonance in religion. God would kill a man for collecting sticks on the sabbath, but not kill a rapist and instead force their marriage under the guise of "taking care of her."

[@Matzah1982]

Actually to rape a married woman brought a death sentence. Keep in mind too the culture of the time and even today how tricky it is legally to prove that rape occurred. It’s the ultimate he said she said. So the way it was dealt with is to have the man marry the unmarried woman he raped and now he had to take care of her for life. That’s like getting a life sentence. Trust me as a Jew I know how the women of my ppl can be and I can only imagine the guilt trips and kishkeh busting and nagging that man would suffer for the rest of his life. Prison nowadays would seem more preferable. As regards the strict laws concerning Shabbat that’s meant to protect it being one of the signs of the covenant between HaShem and Israel because the relationship is like a marriage that happened at Sinai and Torah is the Ketubah and things like the festivals and circumcision and Shabbat are sacred signs of the covenant. This is what all HaShem asked of us after he did all that he did bringing us forth from Egyptian bondage so why is it so bad after all he did to have some strict stipulations?

[@Matzah1982]

Also I don’t really think it’s eisegesis to read into the text of Torah using Jewish tradition and knowledge of the culture of that time. It’s common in rabbinical commentaries

[@Scorned405]

Check out Richard Carrier

[@josephthomasjr.6551]

The sooner our species evolves beyond this monumental foolishness called "religion", the better. A Godless world? 'Tis a consumation devoutly to be wished! (With apologies to William Shakespeare.)

[@lh1673]

What is wrong of Enoch?