Why Sending Messages to Extraterrestrials Could Be Risky (Dark Forest Hypothesis)

[@georgeharrisonOK]

Maybe the civilization we were looking for was the friends we made along the way

[@Sebastian-gf2fk]

Maybe the enemies we want are just not there.

[@DneilB007]

Um… you know that is literally the point of SETI, right? Meeting new friends?

[@sion8]

So, none?

[@UnionYes1021]

What if we are the alien civilization that we’ve been looking for all along?

[@terrafirma5327]

@@DneilB007 Meme references go way over your head it seems.

[@Beryllahawk]

Honestly I think Contact did a decent job presenting the basics of this whole idea. Sagan really had a good way of explaining the ways that inter-species communication could work. (That was a good movie, too. I know it mostly focused on what us humans would do, and how badly we'd handle any proof of other life, but the science was well presented.) Larry Niven pointed out that humans are in fact EXPERTS at communication with aliens: because we talk to each other, because we can communicate with babies, and animals, and these days even get at least a hint of what ants and plants are "saying." And in among that notion of "we can't know what aliens are like, their biology, how they sense the universe," includes some pretty wild implications you know? What if aliens never see their own young until they're grown, or what if the baby alien is SO vastly different from an adult that they literally can't interact or communicate? Imagine a butterfly trying to talk to a caterpillar: could they even do that? Do caterpillars have the biological equipment to receive, interpret, and respond to adult-butterfly pheromone? It's not like butterflies guard their young, or teach them - something that we humans almost take for granted. (I'll leave the lovely vision of a seven foot tall insect for other imaginations to play with. Or for fans of Jack L Chalker, hehe.) I will say it's highly likely that any star faring civilization WOULD have some kind of vision, though. Again from Niven's thoughts on the matter, what made humans explore the universe was, and to an extent continues to be, that we LOOK UP. We see, and we have questions, and science leads us to new ways to ask those questions and to learn. Yet another point that's worth considering: what will it look like when we DO get a response? "Cranky Joe" had a point, what if there are geniuses on another planet - but they're cephalopods. Or whales? They could make telescopes and maybe develop the tech to receive our signals, and even respond: but they're not necessarily gonna come visiting. It might end up being a literal long distance friendship, but the Earth would at least be...safer. I won't say safe, look what we've done to ourselves, but still. Excellent video!

[@jjhggdcqz]

Maybe it's like Star Trek, where the true key to contact with another civilization is faster than light travel, i.e. us going to them or vice versa. When it comes to faster than light, scientists are divided; some say it's completely impossible, but others say it will happen.

[@jonasga]

Contact was really silly and naive. More advanced civs are going to know more about us than we know about ourselves. The way people think about advanced extraterrestrials is almost like a coping mechanism. Look how small we have made computers and sensors in just a few years. What are an interstellar race going to be using? People who have been developing their computers and sensors for tens of thousands or even tens of millions more years? It's comical to think they wouldn't be able to immediately communicate with us.

[@Aaaaaaarrrpirate]

@@jonasgado you realise how unlikely it would be for a civilization to last any more than a few thousand years? Let alone a million without incredible luck!

[@Aaaaaaarrrpirate]

It reminds me of all tomorrows a little bit. When the humans are separated by thousands of light years, they still manage to communicate and form an alliance for the common good

[@shramanadasdutta3006]

​@@jonasgai always question the bit where we assume the other life form will be smarter than us. Why tho? Cant it be that we are the smart life forms already and those we meet are just coming onto their own?

[@skd]

They probably came and said: "We went there, we didn't see any signs of intelligent life on this planet. Moving on."

[@davidroddini1512]

If, as implied at the end, we turn out to be the most advanced species in our general region... Then I feel sorry for any other lifeforms in our general region of space.

[@Splarkszter]

It's not all lost yet, everyone needs to contribute, stop the distopia we are already in one. Embrace FLOSS.

[@davidmccarthy6061]

@@Splarkszter My dentist always says that too.

[@pratyakshkumar1003]

god forbid if we find oil there.

[@miguelmalvina5200]

there has to be a story out there where the humans are the dominant apex predator of space man.

[@eiheioh2050]

Venus-Billiards commemorates the Draconians who pushed Venus into the solar system, miscalculated its orbit, and tore Tiamat Golf - Moon 🌕 Commemorative invention curve positioning, pushing the moon into the solar system and precisely After the fall of Tiamat, it was reincarnated as Thoth, the Black Eight Gods

[@ronkirk5099]

It would be the greatest event in our history if we received an extraterrestrial signal, but unless there is some bizarre physics we haven't discovered yet, the vastness of space makes the event very improbable. It is doubtful that we are alone in the universe, but we will be forever isolated in our little corner of it so we better take better care of it.

[@I.____.....__...__]

Confirming alien is indeed the biggest, most revolutionary, most life-changing thing that can happen to an intelligent spices, and it's a universal notion that would apply to aliens as well. After that, only confirming what, if anything happens after death (and again, universal). Sadly, you KNOW even if it happened, the whole world would lose interest within a week and news would move onto the latest war or celebrity-scandal du jour, especially since nothing day-to-day practical comes of them. 🤦

[@nathanberrigan9839]

The book Pushing Ice has one possible solution to this. In the book, the first advanced species eventually determines they are alone in the galaxy and given not just the vastness of space, but also the vastness of time, it's unlikely they will ever meet another intelligent species. So they create a Dyson Sphere and send probes throughout the galaxy. When a probe encounters a sufficiently advanced species, it captures them. Then it uses near light speed travel and associated time dilation shenanigans to make all the different probes arrive at the Dyson Sphere at the same time billions of years in the future. Then they can all do a giant meet and greet.

[@The1stDukeDroklar]

At sub-light speeds, it would only take a few million years to colonize every star in our galaxy.

[@abstract5249]

@@nathanberrigan9839 "When a probe encounters a sufficiently advanced species, it captures them." I'm gonna stop you right there😂

[@A.Filthy.Casual]

Saying this is for sure nothing novel, but let's be real: any species capable of interstellar or even intergalactic travel has most certainly overcome resource scarcity and labor needs

[@SioxerNikita]

Neither is necessarily true...

[@abdullahmalik267]

Tbh, j can't agree, if an interstellar civilization exists, it has a VERY HUGE population, and larger the race is more food and supplies it needs, so i feel in a situation like this an Interstellar civilization SHOULD be seen expanding

[@SioxerNikita]

@@abdullahmalik267 Interstellar civilizations doesn't necessarily have a very large population.

[@abdullahmalik267]

@@SioxerNikita tbh after writing that statement, and reading yours I've just realised that neither of us are apart of an interstellar Civilization so we have probably have no idea what we are talking about... they are guesses without any based observation

[@SioxerNikita]

@@abdullahmalik267 That's why I said... "doesn't necessarily"... There is no inherent property of an interstellar civilization that says it HAS to be a very large population. Especially if they have a lot of automation.

[@cavemann_]

"Would you feel bad about squishing an ant?" Yes, in fact I would. Call me crazy, but I would.

[@aprilmeowmeow]

there are at least two of us 😅

[@dangerfly]

You'd care for that one ant but the thousands of bugs you hit with your car are only a statistic.

[@cavemann_]

@@dangerfly True

[@abdullahmalik267]

@@dangerfly didn't Comrade Stalin say smth like that?

[@sproins]

Same, like I don't care about passively stepping on them, but actively going out of my way to squish an ant? (or any creature really)? kinda messed up honestly.

[@brianfox771]

Yes, space is vast and huge. And radio signals grow very weak even over relatively short distances within our solar system. Also, given the distances we're dealing with, the speed of light is quite slow.

[@ArturoBazeIV]

I love it how the only reason to put on the hoodie at the end was to cover for you hugging yourself 😂❤

[@theoneknownasghost]

I think it would be depressing if alien life responded to the radio messages we sent out, but the speed at which it traveled was slow slow that our sun already reached the end of its life cycle.

[@Saleca]

Only if we are still alive

[@AndrewBlacker-t1d]

😅all radio signals travel at same speed/speed of light

[@I.____.....__...__]

@@AndrewBlacker-t1d Yes, but space is sooooo big that even light takes forever to travel its vast distances.

[@123FireSnake]

it's another 4 billion years for our sun, that's still millions of large GALAXIES within range. Besides if we're around that long, we could easily prolong the life of the sun, it's not all that difficult as far as mega engineering goes it just takes time and a few large asteroids worth of building materials. If we've got any emotional capacity left for the next few hundred to thousand years earth and the sun will be very well taken care of.

[@I.____.....__...__]

Stonehenge took over 1,200 years to build. The people who started it probably knew their great-grandchildren wouldn't even get to see it finished, let alone themselves, but they still began it anyway. 🤷

[@jooniespie]

honestly, contemplation of extraterrestrial life, sending audio and visual signals to help it and then theorizing that the extraterrestrials are afraid to reach out upon not getting a response is such a human thing to do lmao 😭

[@John-zz6fz]

I get the general point of SETI and METI and SETI does pretty good science so I definitely support them. To me the resounding silence is definitely a clue to something and is useful for bounding a lot of our probability calculations. We still have way too many variables at play to rigorously refine the Drake equation let alone to start applying the thing. So the science continues and we will just have to wait and see. Things to consider for this topic: 1) The speed of light just might be ABSOLUTE which will be incredibly limiting for the spread of intelligent life let alone the exchange of ideas 2) Technology very likely follows a logistics curve and isn't exponential, so we assume we are headed for Star Trek but maybe the best we can do is the Matrix 3) Radio technology just might be a transient technology, we may be attempting to contact the gods with pictographs on the hillside 4) We might not be an interesting place to visit because the earth's gravity would make us a nice place to visit but not a nice place to live (too low) 5) Maybe we are being monitored and evaluated as a threat, I mean we use any and all technology we get our hands on to kill each other. What would we do to aliens if given the chance?

[@Sal-T]

It could be that there is some method of communication that requires a level of understanding of physics that we don't have yet, and that level of understanding would mean that we're advanced enough to be worth communicating with, and once we discover it, we'll see that there's all sorts of activity out there, but until we do, it all looks so quiet. Kinda like the 'first warp-capable ship' prompting first contact in Star Trek.

[@8__vv__8]

This is more likely than most alternatives, but keep in mind that it took us about 4.5 billion years to go from goo to inventing the radio. Even assuming we’re not special, the time it takes other species to climb that ladder could easily have a billion years of variance. The odds that we’re the first ever are vanishingly low, but the odds of being in the first 1% of intelligent life in the galaxy/universe to pop up are not. We probably shouldn’t freak out until we’ve found nothing for a couple billion years, not, like, 50. We also shouldn’t broadcast so many signals into deep space, not because it will tempt alien conquerors to come destroy us, but because it’s the equivalent of using a leaf blower at 6:30AM on a Sunday. Anyone who detects the signal will rightly assume we are the jerks that we are

[@LegendConsole]

It's always better to try and fail than to never try at all.

[@I.____.....__...__]

ALWAYS? 🤨 There are definitely some occasions in which the cost of failure is higher than the reward of success. I certainly wouldn't try tightrope-walking across the Grand Canyon to get a bit of fame for a couple of days and fall. 😒

[@arifbagusprakoso2308]

I don't mind if you're the one funding it. For most people though, there are many other worth to focus.

[@Charlys787]

not in war and that's the fear it's all about

[@aedwards4496]

You might end up poking a hornet's nest by "trying" the consequences might not be as you'd wish for

[@tacoo0c4t]

By “Failing”, you do mean getting the entire solar system wiped out, right?

[@brianroberts783]

An interesting thought to consider is what if there's not some super advanced alien civilization out there? What if we are some of the first intelligent life in the universe?

[@IHateUniqueUsernames]

Then perhaps we can guide younger species along their path to reach for the stars, and hope we can help prevent any major disasters that may come their way, natural or otherwise.

[@timauth]

Great question. What if we are the most advanced beings in this universe? Or are we like children in a dark forest that have been playing very loudly and just now realizing that something might be listening? And we're purposely trying to talk to them with an assumption that it doesn't want to eat us. Or maybe nothing is there. It's exciting either way but I really hope WE aren't the smartest thing or that we're kids blindly dancing in front of cosmic wolves. lol

[@-Subtle-]

Or what if the other intelligent species have already gone extinct.

[@davidmccarthy6061]

@@-Subtle- Yes, more likely that there have been millions of them but at different times and places, and given the vast distances it is easy enough to stay relatively local and have everything you need.

[@lowwastehighmelanin]

Terrifying: we're not as smart as we like to think we are

[@fizola88]

I think there are two possible scenarios: We will find some contact, we will even be able to comunicate (40 years waiting for response and such, but still) but vast distances in our universe will never allow us to see each other in person. Or we will be the ones to go out and explore, maybe we will be some ancient myth in far away civilization in stone age that we will find and try to teach (or most likely enslave... which is sad)

[@mkkundal]

One of the best science channels. Funny and informative! I loved your character work and the way this video was shot, making it more conversational when exchanging ideas. If only people with different perspectives could sit down and have a discussion like that. Anyways, you have got some serious acting chops! Keep it up Joe! And thanks for helping us learn!

[@-Thauma-]

Brilliantly made 😄 Thanks, Joe!

[@kenzemuhammed5719]

Honestly, this is one question that has been haunting me for soo many years. As much as I can think, any audio or visual communication in our common knowledge won't be an effective way to communicate, since even the fundamental things which we "discovered", are something which we assigned symbols for our understanding. But as Joe said if we can communicate via radio wave or anything that is fundamental thing of universe, as the basic medium (i.e encode our message in radio wave and transmit it to space, for the alien to pick it up and decode it in their understanding ) that can be a method, but let's be honest, what are the chances an extra terrestrial knowing the exact way of decoding the message we sent, in the end, what we send is our way of perceiving things it can be text, visual or even sound. Sure scientists have found ways to encode messages in visual format from binary in form of radiowave but, think of this, for an alien to decode the message, first it needs a radio receiver, and hope that they perceive radio waves in the same form of graphs as we do, then it needs a screen or any such sorta thing to lay the foundation of the binary code in color format (that is if they know binary and have the visual privilage to understand the visual spectrum of light) and then visually understand it!! what we know as fundamentals of universe, are stuff we assigned specific ideology and symbols to, for example they might know what a zero is but, it might be in a way which we do not know or understand. There are a lot of "if" and "hope" in this quest to communicate to aliens. I know it's frustrating and that's why it haunts me this much, there is no way we can communicate unless those guys have same sensory organs as we do and have the knowledge and resources to decipher what we say. Which have a lot less probability, but we have to consider something! our sample space is big enough to have hundreds or thousands of favourable outcomes who can understand us in the way we intend to, but out of billions or even trillions (size of sample space). SAD :"(

[@timharig]

You are overcomplicating things -- a lot. If we restrict ourselves to radio transmission, which is a very reasonable given the distances, then we begin with a very limited palette to begin with. There are only two fundamental ways that we can modulate a carrier wave: amplitude modulation and frequency modulation (phase modulation is a special case of frequency modulation). The very simplest modulation that ANYBODY with a radio receiver should be able to interpret is continuous wave amplitude keyed modulation. That is we turn the the signal on and off. Then we broadcast a simple series of beats that kindergartener should be able to understand. We broadcast one pulse then wait. Then we broadcast two pulses in succession and wait. Next we broadcast three pulses and wait. Maybe we go all of the way up to ten pulses. Any intelligence that can detect radio waves should be able understand an increasing sequence of pulses whether they hear, see it, feel it, or smell it. From there we start to build a vocabulary of the numbers. We perhaps give the numbers a more a more efficient binary representation and we send the translation table. Since we have established the pulses as numbers, we can send one pulse and our representation for one. Then we send two pulses and the representation for two. And so on. Then we create names for the mathematical operators and send them a few lines from an addition table using the number representations that we have already established. An intelligent being should be able to figure out that the new symbol stands for addition. Then we keep going from there gradually building a common vocabulary and understanding one little step at a time.

[@kenzemuhammed5719]

​@@timharig hmmm interesting that's a really good way to express yourself, to a planet who interpret things just like us humans do. what I'm trying to say is, what you said is just soo "human". we are communicating with aliens! and the fact that they even think, what we are trying to do in the initial stages of transmission is to create a base of interpretation is just soo not likely, there are millions of ways to interpret it, and not just as numbers as you said (the human way!). oh well you can argue if they can't figure it out it's okay, I mean we are in the quest of intelligent life forms after all, aren't we? As I said, it's just we are expecting/hoping things. We humans created binary we say it exists as a universal language because we saw patterns, but for an alien it might have an entirely different forms of communication and understanding of symbols, which could be influenced by their unique biology, environment, and technological evolution. Hey I'm no expert in this, and I might be wrong; oh wait! it's that what I've already said, it's just "if" and "hope" mathematically knows as probability, which is quiet low at this point, sadly.

[@consensuslphisk]

​@@kenzemuhammed5719 I mean, it's kinda because the whole endeavor hinges on the anthrocentrism of aliens wanting to talk. Like, any information we encode into a transmission received by an alien civilization (assuming we're the first to talk to them) is just an extra on top of the main point of the message which is to say: we're alive, we're here, and we can send radio signals like you. But as you say, even that much depends on a pattern being noticed in a way potentially particular to humans. Even if theyre very human-like, perhaps our radio transmissions in millions of years will be recieved by alien scientists intially logged as a junk signal, only for their observatory to get defunded and the research lost before its unusual contents could be dug into. That is to say, even an anthopic alien could very well miss a signal, since well, when have we anthropoids been perfect? Man. Time and space are big huh.

[@Aditya_Nambiar]

What a wholesome ending!

[@NewMessage]

So... Carefully.

[@Orrsmen]

Ive always had the philosophy of we are not alone, because the universe is vast and if it happened here, it can happen anywhere. I just didnt think too much about how we could be the "ancient civilization" that we were looking for, but for someone else. I liked how you set this video up and your conclusion! It definitely made me think differently.

[@prettypic444]

Whenever I heard about this topic, I always think of one my favorite short stories, “They’re Made of Meat”. Even if we do make contact with aliens, there’s no way of knowing how they’d react. Another great piece of media on this subject is the podcast Wolf 359, which turns our radio transmissions into a really interesting plot point

[@coondog7934]

Must be the first time in history someone actually saying sorry for rick-rolling someone.

[@dondelapongo]

Child: are we alone? Oracle: yes Child: so there is no life out there in the stars? Oracle: yes there is, they are alone too.

[@SurinderSingh-pl4qc]

You are creating AWESOME videos. Plz Make them longer.... atleast 25 to 30 minutes.

[@jasminemagee410]

This might be my favourite Be Smart video. Love the topic and love how it was filmed ❤❤❤

[@adamwishneusky]

The dark forest trilogy by Cixin Liu is so goooood 📕

[@I.____.....__...__]

- The Arecib message presumes they lay it out correctly as 23×73 instead of 23×73 and figure out what those Atari-2600 sprites mean (which most humans can't do). - You didn't account for attenuation. The signals aren't coherent and spread out and diminish so NONE of our signals reached far enough to get to anywhere that intelligent life is located, and we haven't gotten any back for the same reason.

[@AdorianDelmore]

Thats why i love the Arrival movie because communication is the key to understanding.

[@AirWindStorm]

Of many vdo I've watched on this channel, this one is among the best.

[@kimbersal1]

You twins keep me curious and make me smarter. Thanks.

[@jinkiesjess]

Love how the message here was basically "Maybe the real treasure was the lessons we learned along the way." 😂❤

[@KaiseruSoze]

I'm always asking myself - when will dolphins send us a semi-prime encoded bit string!!??

[@joetoocool]

They already have, using their clicks. We’re not intelligent enough to figure it out.

[@jakobfielder]

We are actually someone has made a device that can translate some clicks and translate some human language into dolphin clicks, the problem is the exact same with humans different pods of all species use specific languages and accents making communication between us and them very difficult but we have found they are basically as smart as we are.​@@joetoocool

[@FishOutOfWaterToronto]

Brian Cox has a great video on all the differing hypotheses about why we haven't heard from "ets"

[@hamidrana085]

"we underestimate how alien aliens can be"

[@dango4ever719]

If “The Three Body Problem” has taught me anything, we probably shouldn’t.

[@chadjmoore]

I expect that other civilizations will be at a different level of advancement, a faster than light species. I am excited and hope to see the answers to our differences, all we can learn and how we communicate. I think Star Trek provides a good basis for why we haven't made contact as of yet. We're not ready as a species, we haven't master FL travel. There is so much chaos and violence on our planet could you imagine spreading it beyond our solar system. If I were on the other side I wouldn't want our ignorant violence, not in my system (NIMS).

[@markoposavec9240]

I think the most probable thing is that there is a lot of life out there and the ones we get in contact with will be extremely advanced. When we discover something this big it's usually a surprise, something totally unexpected! Usually the universe gives us a big wake up slap! Then we realize how ridiculously wrong and stubborn we were as the truth reveals itself right in front of our nose.

[@true_cnstntn]

The three body problem book series is all about this idea. I'm surprised it was not mentioned after talking about the dark forest

[@midnightrambler8866]

If we do get a response it would be terrifying if they said "shhhhhh! They're listening! "

[@nano_sweet]

I think that the biggest issue in communicating with extraterrestrial life is one of scale. Sentient terrestrial life is physically constained both spatially and temporally to about one to a couple meters and a few tens of years of lifespan respectively. It might be that our messages are too short/long both spatially and temporally even if there were to be a sentient life form listening. I'm sure someone's been playing around with this kind of reasoning but it's fun to think about.

[@Mrnotpib]

8:59 the question I have for this personally is, how do we know when we’ve failed at searching the cosmos? If the cosmos is that infinitely big, how do we know where the point of failure is?

[@attepatte8485]

There is no point of failure and we keep going

[@SilortheBlade]

The answer is we won't know. You can't prove a negative.

[@lobachevscki]

Failure is our default position. Even if there is a civilization out there but we were incapable of contacting them then we would have failed because from our perspective it is not different than assuming we are alone. The success condition is that we have sufficient evidence we contacted or were contacted by another civilization so anything else is failure. Failure is not based on a reality we cant know about (thats the point of the searching) but in the goal we are setting.

[@I.____.....__...__]

You don't know. You just keep trying for fun and curiosity until you get bored and quit and leave it to others to try for fun and curiosity and so on. It's no different than most stuff, you go until you lose interest and others pick up where you left off.

[@CarFreeSegnitz]

We should do an exhaustive search out to a distance where it becomes pointless. A distance of a few tens of thousands of lightyears after which distance guarantees there will be no meaningful exchanges, good or bad. There is no failure mode. Knowing there is life, or no life, is beneficial either way. Not knowing and then being confronted by an immediate existential threat would be abject failure.

[@jooei2810]

The book and Netflix series Three Body Problem is exactly this connondrum. Don’t contact aliens.

[@Glenn.Cooper]

Yes, absolutely. We have a lot to learn from them.

[@sidepunch]

Definitely wasn't expecting that rick roll 😂

[@4roronoazoro]

And I wasn’t expecting Stephan hawking 😭😭

[@anasreza782]

Not from this channel 😂

[@takumi2023]

The other reason is time as well. Just because we're alive now doesn't mean everyone else is too. With vast distance and time, maybe intelligence in life hasn't evolved yet

[@just_sum_punk]

Anybody else formed a parasocial bond with Joe and the Green brothers? I know my science nerd self has. I always appreciate videos that explain things NASA has done in the past and how we try to innovate those trials. Great content everybody!

[@cob571]

2:38 what the heck is wrong with this foot?! those toes are OUT OF THIS WORLD

[@Jim-Stick]

Great video as always. The vastness of space is something that is often overlooked. Our signals can only travel at the speed of light. We are constantly looking into the past in our local galaxy. I feel that sending these signals is a great thing to do. Chances are, if someone hears them, we will be long gone.

[@dl2839]

There's nobody that can hear anything. By the time it reaches the distances that are required to contact, the signal will be too diffuse to actually detect, let alone decode.

[@mr.johnson3844]

I like the use of the hoodie to keep the bit going.

[@VoidHalo]

Protip: if you ever find yourself struggling to communicate that you're intelligent to an alien, just start tapping out prime numbers with your finger,. The first few will get the point across. 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13. Everybody knows primes. And counting how many times you tap on something should be simple enough to figure out, even with some time if necessary.

[@piyushsahu6045]

I didn't know I was gonna get rick rolled in alien this morning

[@jaimel88]

That Monty Python stomp was class.

[@MeesterG]

Nice to see Carl's Sagan's Cosmos as well as James' Burke's Connections at 3:08. If you like this stuff, I can recommend Isaac Arthur here on KZbin, he's quite the expert on futurism.

[@alywi]

I appreciated The Big Lebowski reference.

[@Psykoses]

That ending was absolute gold

[@Jesse-cw5pv]

The fermi paradox is one of the most interesting topics to ponder

[@dubsar]

"What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it."

[@collins_channel8643]

Wow a dark forrest video? Im impressed

[@XSaebaYRyoZ]

What if alien were listening but all they heard was: "Never gonna give you up..."

[@brianfox771]

Then you better get ready for Rick Astley being our new global supreme leader. 😉

[@ShlokParab]

What is they heard , say- a death threat?

[@The1stDukeDroklar]

😆

[@cfromnowhere]

1:26 This footage is from 2010. Hawking later changed his idea on SETI and co-signed the open letter that launched the Breakthrough Listen project in 2015, which is the most extensive SETI project to date ("In an infinite Universe, there must be other life. There is no bigger question. It is time to commit to finding the answer."). So his opinion shown in the documentary is not his final view.

[@corbalord]

He also liked to watch little people solve equations on a big chalk board

[@MariaMartinez-researcher]

That's why Star Trek is so relevant in real life. The best part of that franchise is that proposes an idealistic yet achievable model for a future human society, that can be built from the now. It is being built now, by all the Trekkies who have become astronauts, engineers, scientists, politicians, and the ones who are trying to make the most outlandish props into actual tech, like warp drive is the Alcubierre drive. But, most importantly, Star Trek presents a society in which money is not the difference between life and death anymore, and where discrimination and wars are behind in the past. That can be achieved by us even if we never travel to Alpha Centauri. On the anecdotal side, The Original Series departed from a future in which United Earth was already a founding member of the United Federation of Planets (any similarity with the USA and the UN is merely intentional), but the later series Enterprise depicted the first adventures of the first human starship capable of going into deep space; the seeds from which the Federation would grow. Thing is, according to the plot, the other future founding planets were in deep conflict against each other. It was the humans, the new kids in the block, who had barely any alliances and weren't know by almost anyone, the only ones neutral enough and adaptable enough as to serve as mediators and negotiators - based on their (our) long and painful experience with internal wars, they knew how to compromise and find a middle ground. That was what humankind added to the incomplete interplanetary equation, the special talent that nobody else had. Yup, the world needs more Star Trek. 😁

[@oO0catty0Oo]

Ah, something nice and light for January.

[@d.-_-.b]

If we've been sending signals for a hundred years, then the closest capable planet to respond for us to receive it now would only be fifty light years away. That's an infinitesimally small area of the universe. Our own milky way galaxy is a hundred THOUSAND light years across. Given the amount of time involved we can't even ask "is there life out there?", we can only ask "was there life out there x amount of years ago?"

[@brianfox771]

And keep in mind, those signals weren't very strong to begin with. Like, you couldn't pick them up with a radio the next state away, let alone the nearest neighboring star system. Those 100 year old signals are so weak they are drowned out by even the slightest background radio frequencies.

[@SioxerNikita]

​@@brianfox771Next state over has bigger issues than the next satellite over, you are aware, right? There is this thing called "Earth" in the way

[@brianfox771]

@SioxerNikita radio signals from 100 years ago, even with relative line of sight, would be difficult to pick up just a few East Coast counties away. Unless there were some really good conditions with the ionosphere.

[@SioxerNikita]

@@brianfox771 More an issue of receiver than transmitter. And a few counties away... The earth is still in the way. You are aware how "close" the horizon is, right? You are at that point relying on reflections to get you further...

[@KrystalBraveheart]

did this get reuploaded? i am like 90 percent sure i have watched this entire video before, i could just be having weird deja vu but yeah its confusing me

[@CrashingThunder]

It's all fun and games until the Wraith start sucking the life out of your chest /s

[@YoungGandalf2325]

The Arecibo Message looks like a game of Space Invaders. I think we might be giving the wrong impression about humans.

[@dainbramage9508]

Andy Weir did a great job proposing what first encounter with an alien lifeform would be like especially (SPOILERS) ones that didn't evolve electromagnetic wave sensing organs such as eyes

[@SkaveRat]

agreed (although I'd say it's a massive spoiler if you say wich book includes it)

[@Myrtlecrack]

Excellent episode! Thank you!🤔

[@WormholeJim]

Suppose Oumuamua was a probe lauched from something on the outskirts of the Oort cloud to see if there was anything going on around the star evidently buried within. An unknown legth of time later Oumuamua swings by our planet and an alarm goes off in the mothership. Something of interest! Life!! And it starts the journey towards the center of the vast debris field to have a closer look. How long before it gets here? 10 years? 500 years? It's half a lightyear +/- some.

[@leonardofontenelle3560]

"The Dark Forest" happens to be the sequel to "The Three-Body Problem", by Liu Cixin

[@JohnnyJacobGO]

I mean the theory is named after the book

[@MrChuks84]

One thing we should consider is that it take a lot longer than decades for light or radio or other mediums to travel across space

[@chillsahoy2640]

"The advanced alien civilization was the friends we made along the way." - Douglas Vakoch (paraphrased) That's a really beautiful way to look at it. It makes me think a bit about Interstellar and (spoiler alert) how they spend so much of the film looking for this advanced alien civilization that was supposed to teach them advanced 5-dimensional space travel, only to find that it was future humans all along.

[@TopFix]

If aliens give us their number, should we wait 3 days to call them?

[@allaware1971]

Imagine this: youre the only last human alive and everyone else is an alien. You meet someone online, a ufo drops them off with a car to meet you. Everything is an alien simulation to see how you use your mind and body to save the world.

[@aresef]

The first five minutes of this are basically the movie Contact

[@Kaldrin]

Another big thing to consider is whey if we do or did get an answer, how do we even hear it, and if we had it or do we realize it IS an answer?

[@tomlxyz]

One thing I'm wondering about there (apparently) being no signals from aliens but us sending out signals for decades: if there are higher intelligence aliens, wouldn't they also at one point go through the phase of sending out radio signals? What's the chance they never use long range wireless technology but advance far? They can't even start unmanned space travel. And if that's the case shouldn't we already heard of any alien civilizations that also can hear us (given distance is the same both ways)?

[@gailaltschwager7377]

Thank you!

[@TheAlchemistZero1]

Earth is the Florida of our Universe, genuinely intelligent beings will avoid cosmic pariahs. Nothing for us to worry about, except humans being humans.

[@HumanFellaPerson]

Yea, we definitely should. We don't gotta be scared.

[@JHaven-lg7lj]

It’s never necessary to apologize for a RickRoll. Going to forward this to my grandson now 😄

[@MBMCincy63]

Aside from the current video (thumbs 👍🏻), I saw you Dr Joe, on a medical TV info video about being well, and taking care of yourself. At least I think that's what it was saying...

[@solertree8653]

A point I find interesting is that other civilizations might exist, but they also might have existed or may exist in the past or future. Consider that life on our planet took billions of years to get to where it is now, yet civilization only really got started in the past 20 thousand years. In cosmic timescales, this is nothing. an alien civilization may have existed a thousand years ago but doesn't any longer, or one may spring to life ten thousand years in our future when we might not exist any more. I do not believe we are the only life in the universe, but I am increasingly unsure if we are the only life in our time.

[@dguibff]

great video as always

[@user-em8fq2ev4b]

Skirting around the topic of the great filters without mentioning them...i was waiting and waiting...

[@Pubwie]

Aliens would probably choke on our stupidity

[@MapleRose9]

I love it when Joe argues with himself 😆 Just curious, does the semi-prime thing still work for other number systems? What if math and physics still work the same elsewhere but they don't use the same number systems?

[@U.K.N]

Its so nice to listen to non-religious’s people suffering with all sorts of paradoxes as a religious

[@karhukivi]

Who is suffering from which paradoxes? Like all the people who go to Lourdes expecting a miracle and not getting one?

[@thegamingdogwr]

6:32 : “ We get ......... ” Me : “ Rick rolled ”

[@ZR_1121]

If we are the only (or first) intelligent life then we have a duty to the universe. To be stewards of it and preserve it for future intelligent species or be the ones who spread intelligent life throughout it.

[@escobasingracia962]

1:26 oh yeah, he's smart, we all know that...

[@jeffbertjeffbertson4805]

Yea probably should’ve edited this bit out lol

[@yppykya]

Yes

[@AndyJP]

Could we even have stopped our radio and tv signals from leaving the planet?

[@GlenHunt]

Morbo is pleased with this video.

[@dpmeyer4867]

thanks

[@RythmGkwd]

0:52 Is that "The Mask" 😂

[@Lizard_Ri]

It was great hearing it as a debate, even if a programmed one, it showed the opposite points

[@KuruGDI]

6:35 The OG for Rick Rolls. Should be some kind of exam for every physics/cryptography class! 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂