ITV Schools on Channel 4 (Full roto sequence)

An experiment to create 6 minutes of sequence to accompany all of James Aldenham's "The Journey" by joining smaller cuts together. A shortened version would have been seen in between each program accompanied by "Just a Minute". Please note I do not own the copyright to any of this material.
This is just a test using a trial version of Cyberlink PowerDirector and the H.264 AVCHD format (m2ts). The source ratio could not be determined by PowerDirector so was assumed to be broadcast 4:3. It was encoded 720x480 to keep file size small (232MB!). Ideally it should be viewed in a small window for better quality otherwise it could be very "blocky". MP3 audio is compressed which causes varying levels at peak volume. I have absolutely no idea what the KZbin re-encoding will do to the subsequent quality of this clip; it could be shockingly awful and a waste of the 70 minutes taken to upload.

[@Mawds69]

What a time to be alive. Get home, watch the kids shows like Knightmare and then Blockbusters later. Sundays was all about Bullseye, and you knew you had school the next day. Happier times.

[@Mawds69]

@Rumpled Foreskin Memories, would go back in an heartbeat.

[@richieschick]

Lee Mawdsley if I could live those days all over again I would!

[@mrportfolio9119]

Good times

[@annother3350]

...and through that summer of love, all the Children's Film Foundation Films we could ever want...

[@kevinprior3549]

All that was on itv this was on ch4

[@VivaLaFraggie]

I remember this from school - being gathered around the big TV in the brown cabinet. Much simpler times; gone but not forgotten.

[@interstat2222]

Probably a Ferguson/Baird TX series TV (with UK made Philips picture tube inside).

[@eamonnca1]

Thumbs up if this reminds you of days spent in bed with a bottle of Lucozade nearby.

[@andrewfallon3998]

I've just sobbed reading this 😍🤣

[@eamonnca1]

@CreeWilly Ha! I don't think I was any more ill than most kids, maybe the time off was just more memorable.

[@eamonnca1]

@shredderkrang Well to be fair there wasn't a whole lot else on TV to watch in the daytime back then. I remember lawn bowling championships, they seemed to get a lot of coverage. But the kids' school shows were really well produced, so they were educational and entertaining at the same time.

[@kyliemcdonald7359]

I'm sure they even used to show them during half terms and summer holidays.

[@del-boysnostalgiatvads7416]

Gayyyy,

[@andypreston1524]

I was 13 when I first heard this stunning tune.......in late 2023 I am 49 and I regularly listen to it. It remains so fresh to me, and always will be.

[@ergleburgle8882]

One of my happiest memories as a kid was being off school and getting to see an extended roto live. No, I didn't have a very exciting childhood. This piece of music is a masterclass in composition, it's six minutes of suspense and anticipation building, the sensation of a big event coming up... and OH NO, IT'S ANOTHER EPISODE OF STOP, LOOK, AND LISTEN!

[@ahoythespoonsareawake4617]

Ergle Burgle Right with you. I’d forgotten how GLORIOUS this music is. And it’s *just* filler music. Incredible.

[@zetametallic]

You had the same kind of childhood as me...a geek in training that's all😉

[@frazzleface753]

You're not alone Ergle Burgle. The chance to hear the entire piece in a non-internet/non-youtube world was something really very special indeed for fans of this sort of thing. I remember taping it in chunks from video and 'editing' it together :). Of course it took until the internet to come along before we could find out more about the music, how it was recorded and who composed it (never would've guessed that!), and to enjoy it on demand whenever we felt like it.

[@andrewfallon3998]

It's SPECIAL being able to hear and remembering it first time around. The music is still incredible.

[@d347b2]

TV idents always fascinated me and terrified me at the same time as a kid. especially this one when it transitions with the blocks flying off into space, replaced with the circle, and the channel 4 ones, with various objects flying through another dimension. if felt like i was on a rollercoaster in space.

[@scrapyardwarriorvlogging]

Right back to 1991 in the space of five seconds. Days skiving off primary school and watching educational programming - the irony!

[@huggy176]

This brings back so many memories of my school days. Best days of your life and before you know it they're gone. I'd go back in a heartbeat and relive them plus my dad would be with us again.

[@cartmanskittykat2197]

I just keep on coming back to this. This brings back so many good memories, such a gorgeous piece of music.

[@grahampearson5670]

Same here.

[@cartmanskittykat2197]

I can't stop coming back here... Such happy memories!

[@knightmarefan]

Same

[@Knufflebeest]

Reminds me of the big TV in a cupboard with a Sony Betamax video recorder! Sitting cross legged on the carpet!

[@frazzleface753]

Should be renamed 'Skiver's Dream' :)

[@andrewfallon3998]

It's always Skivers Dream to me from now on. 😍

[@andrewfallon3998]

@Rumpled Foreskin Bunkers Bonanza 😍🤣

[@reddungeoneer2187]

Loved listening to this before the education programs, felt like I was on a spiritual journey!

[@RoninofRamen]

I find it ironic that the only shows I can remember from primary school came from BBC schools, "Look and Read" being the most memorable, yet this ident is my most vivid memory from school TV sessions.

[@indiana1977]

Thanks for uploading this wonderful nostalgic piece in all its 6 minute glory. It was of course written by Brian Bennett, best known as the drummer from The Shadows, under the pseudonym of 'James Aldenham'.

[@lindsey8480]

this just brings back school wooden cold floors memories

[@scotty87able]

The tv and vhs player with the yellow paint down the sides so the teacher could see where it was in the hallway on the tall trolley stand and volume on full blast so the duff mono could be heard by everyone. teacher would pause the programme here and there when the narrator said a key fact on the subject and basically repeat it for us to remember for later when we would write in our writing books

[@georgeholland2934]

Incredibly nostalgic seeing and hearing this. I remember huddling around the television with my classmates in the library at primary school watching this whilst waiting for the schools programmes to start. I was puzzled why ITV Schools was on Channel 4. The shiny metallic dynamic 3D lettering was so mid 1980s. Our local ITV station was TVS and they embraced the new CGI technology in their idents too. There was no escaping reflected spectrums on shiny objects in space!

[@eamonnca1]

Channel 4 led the way with the shiny blocks thing and everybody copied them for the next half a decade or more! The BBC were also early adopters of CGI. Remember the Children's BBC idents with pixelated graphics and early synthesized sounds? Not exactly ready for prime time but everyone at the time thought it was cool because it was computer-generated.

[@CNash85]

ITV and Channel 4 had a much more symbiotic relationship in the 80s and early 90s. ITV was responsible for selling Channel 4’s advertising space and the two channels would include each other in “coming up next” end boards and promos.

[@jane1975]

Apparently ITV wanted to create a proper daytime television slot of programming, so they moved their children’s learning programmes to Channel 4 which started broadcasting on the 14th of September 1987. I am originally from the TVS region myself, Ed Walsh did a great theme for the regional franchise in ‘87. Thankfully TVS was one of the regions that stuck two fingers up at the 1989 generic ident. I think the “ fibre optic rainbow” effect ITV logo is from ‘86. I think the ITV logo we have now is getting old, it’s time it was changed.

[@SamuraiSaiyan99]

Aah my childhood 😍 miss those times 😢 we would see this usually if you were off school sick and at home. Do a bit of education even though your not at school, or occasionally some teacher would bring the TV out in school and play these edu programs.

[@jamiehewitt5741]

1:16

[@jamesuk4520]

Life was so, so innocent and fun the last time I saw this... how times have changed.

[@fraserkatie]

Was fascinated by this clever piece before the programmes always loved it when off sick from school as never really saw this in school!!! The music compliments it too! Ive a rare piece of music called Animations and this one is The Journey and the countdown to programme clock was called Just a Minute all created by Brian Bennett

[@DB-qx7dr]

I’d watch this with my Grandma on school holidays, loved it

[@IvanAmbrose]

Takes me right back to my childhood, I love this piece of music too, the fact it begins in the key of c major, in the middle it changes to f major and then the end goes back to c major. Outstanding musical work

[@sandranutting4250]

This does take me back to the when I was younger, when I was at School. This is definitely happy memories to me & to everyone as well.

[@kungfuclassics1770]

Agreed!

[@johnnyabsley]

Amazing how music can evoke such memories... so fortunate to be an 80s child..

[@kerrys2cents927]

Omg my childhood! I’m trying to explain this to my hubs and he has no clue!!! He’s a 79’ baby and I’m 82’. My kids are looking at me like I’m mad. They’re 2016 and 2018😂😂

[@jane1975]

I was born in ‘75 and even I know this.

[@nigelkthomas9501]

I’m a 71’ baby and remember this well! I left school the year ITV schools programs were moved to CH4, but I still loved watching them. Whenever I was off sick I always watched most of them! Such a shame they stopped in 1993! What do kids watch in school now?

[@theveluxhorse1120]

82' baby too, I'm with you. I listen to this everytime I get a bit down. I've unlocked a few memories that were chucked at the back of the mind listening to this. Great, great, happy times. Don't forget the 1 minute song too. Amazing times.

[@andrewfallon3998]

I'm 1979 and I still get goosebumps watching this. Being off sick was the best coz you got to hear the whole thing.

[@andrewfallon3998]

@@theveluxhorse1120 I get really emotional whenever I hear this. It's almost sinister how it unlocks so many memories. Love this tune though... 80's synth is the best.

[@brillman9156]

So cool school I'm tears I'm old now god those were the days music so cooooool

[@kamutube69]

I used to love watching this in the late 1980's. It makes me feel so nostalgic. Thanks for sharing though.

[@markc8956]

That 4 logo gave me the creeps as a kid - still does at the nearly age of 38! Memories though :) Favourite ITV Schools on 4 programmes for me were IT and Scientific Eye,least favourite - How We Used to Live,even though it was pretty popular! So sad that since the last of 4 Learning in 2005,it's all online now. The internet age killed off the schools TV service as we knew it.

[@kungfuclassics1770]

Same! And I’m the same age

[@kevinprior3549]

How did the 4 give you the creeps? Was it the American Football 4 that scared you? With smoke coming out?

[@rlq9757]

Nice1 when sick days were care free days as kid 😆 when you heard this pulled a porky to the parents

[@Mawds69]

Best sick days

[@gibbonduder182]

Oh you fucking HERO! I've been trying to find this for over 30 yrs!

[@beardsgirl]

@@JackP5225 😂😂😂30 years tho

[@Xclub40X]

@@beardsgirl yeah, I was born in 1982 and I remember this logo well. . . Almost 40 years old, how time flies and it's pretty darn scary that we only here once

[@beardsgirl]

@@Xclub40X it is scary, I'm 36 could be worse, could be better😂x

[@phildurrant2422]

Oh The Journey. Going to have this at my wedding for the congregation waiting

[@mrraoulandtheking11]

Phil Durrant have this playing when your invited guests take their seats

[@yo-ev6xs]

oh back in the days skiving school

[@keepingitrealandtruthful.5081]

This reminds me of my days in primary school.

[@hawthornrabbit]

I /adore/ this piece, I rank it as one of the greatest pieces of sythesised music ever. And I don't think it's just nostalgia, either - I loved hearing this as a child, it made you feel like something magical was about to happen. Which, it turned out, was education. :)

[@andrewfallon3998]

It makes me cry like an old man everytime I hear it.

[@markgenner5743]

Beautiful Musical Tune

[@EssJayBee]

This sequence debuted on Channel 4 30 years ago today! Still looks fresh. The hypnotic rotation and the calm music made it such a relaxing experience when watching schools programmes in the school holidays. No ads, no trailers, just this sequence and the programmes. TV was better back in the day!

[@tvschools7860]

I couldn't agree more!!! :-)

[@amanthy]

I remember the teacher wheeling in the TV to watch these School programmes.

[@ajs41]

I do as well, except it was a TV and Betamax video machine that were wheeled in together. In about 1987/1988.

[@retrolutiongames9479]

Likewise, we as kids always used to cheer when the TV came rolling in on it's massive stand, amazing days!

[@Mawds69]

@@retrolutiongames9479 The best days.

[@gordontaylor5373]

@@Mawds69 They sure were. Enjoy your school days while you can, kids. Growing up's NOT what it's cracked up to be!

[@gary3561]

I do believe this music is called "the journey" corect me if im wrong. It would open up on C4 at 0928 am allowing trachers time to get class ready with the 60second clock and its music appearing and counting down to then allow them to settle the class. If you were ever off sick you could always switch to channel 4 and watch all the programmes on offer. More often than not teachers would've pre recorded the episode they needed for the lesson. We'd generally have to watch the programme then we'd do work on the subject. That was a good 35+ years ago in UK schools. At least thats what i remember from my days at school.

[@marnanel]

It is! It's even on Spotify, though I think it's a different rendition of the same song.

[@kurt479]

Wasn’t the countdown for the VHS recording? I didn’t think these were designed to be viewed ‘live’ 😂

[@scottpeacock5492]

@@kurt479 No the countdown clock was view live, the idea for intro for BBC ITV and CH4 Schools were to give teacher time to move students out of one school tv room and the next loads of students into the tv room to be ready to watch and settle down the class which is the reason for 60 second clock.

[@colindownes-v1l]

all i need now is a small bottle of milk with blue straw and to sit legs crossed watching Words and Pictures

[@BobSmith-s7j]

Magic Magic E! 🧙‍♂️🪄

[@cloudstrife1983]

The memories of skiving from school.

[@shishuali4821]

reminds me of sick days from school

[@gsf5882]

This really take me back to my primary school days.

[@kevinprior3549]

Its so scary watching it now. Such a blast from past. Very 80s music

[@zymurgic]

I'm hypnotised trying to do reverse raytracing to work out what's reflecting on the inner surface of the ITV logos. Someone somewhere had a digital model of this stuff, unless of course, it predated CGI, and is a mechanical ident.

[@frazzleface753]

It was (fairly) early CGI. Jim Stokoe of Central was the designer. From an archive capture of the defunct schoolstv site:- Further research has shown that it was highly likely that Jim Stokoe and his team used graphics workstations of the time. Final development, according to Jim, was in a small room in the "depths of Soho" (London). Wire meshes were used in design and preview with the materials and textures added later. Those being Silver with the front bevel using cyclic colour scrolling created separately. Electric Image produced the actual animations under the supervision of concept designer Jim Stokoe. Electric Image utilised the "in" system of the time for broadcast animations. The system the animations were created on was a Symbolics LISP unit. The Symbolics LISP system tended to do all the rendering calculations in microchips as opposed to Software rendering we see today. Supplied with the system was of course the neccessary software. Jim and his crew used S-Geometry to create the 3D world the animations reside in. S-Render was the animation engine used to render the materials and final design. This system cost around £50000 and was a beast! "I did do a copy of it [animations] at the time for our company DFG to prove how this then low cost machine could compete with the pricey workstations," says Ciaran Devine. Ciaran worked in another company in the same locale and it was the talk of the Soho graphics community at the time. Ciaran also co-produced the graphics for the Children's ITV series, Knightmare. Jim Stokoe also said they used another piece of software called Dubner, which was new to Electric Image. Dubner was a dedicated computer graphics system and is now part of Discreet (who make 3D Studio Max) This was a system for compositing and frame painting, which is known in the industry as Rotoscoping. Central Television did not have an in-house Symbolics system until after the animations were produced. And here's a little thing you probably don't know. The animated 3D Central Television 'cake' logo from the late 1980s was created on a Symbolics LISP CGI station.

[@gary3561]

I believe it was all computer generated something tells me an amiga was the computer used

[@kevinprior3549]

Bet this was very very expensive to do

[@interstat2222]

@@gary3561 Quantel Paintbox. Very interesting videos on KZbin of it in action. You’d be surprised how current video editing and CG for graphics and titles owe almost everything to the British Quantel Paintbox (and later US Video Toaster, which was a cheaper version doing slightly less complex stuff for semi-pros).

[@johnnyballenatl]

Imagine if they updated it with the 1989 ITV logo!

[@SuperRecordman]

I was in my early 20's when I first saw this. Brilliant. Takes me back to the 80's.

[@hazelevans872]

Oh yes I remember this so well and it's great music I was ill alot as a child so this brings back memories indeed 👍

[@alasdairgardiner2313]

Back in the days when all the major channels did educational programmes - not like today.

[@johnking5174]

Educational programmes only really took off due to the restrictions on broadcasting hours in the UK set by the British government. Educational programmes for schools, colleges and adult education were exempt from the restrictions and so the BBC and ITV used them to stay on the air longer each day as they did not count towards the permitted hours on air. That all changed from 1972 when those restrictions were lifted.

[@richieschick]

Too bad they shut down the educational programmes. It would have helped a lot of kids who are home schooled.

[@scottpeacock5492]

Blame the age of the internet that killed Schools tv educational programmes, All Educational Programmes are now online and sent to schools, I believe Channel 4 still provide these programmes for schools.

[@julianhanc8272]

And also BBC2

[@robtudor8598]

meh god i feel old, but i remember it like it was yesterday

[@Xclub40X]

So much better than the trash nowadays, and happier times in general too..... miss the 80's and 90's

[@jamessolly3030]

I agree. Back in those days the TV executives actually put a bit of heart and soul into kids tv. Now days it's pretty much the style over substance approach and a lot seems to be lost has a result. So sad. :(

[@Atlantean1980]

Totally agree mate, life seemed less complicated back then. The TV and the Ferguson video star were the most modern things we had in our primary school, apart from one or two BBC Micro computers.

[@Xclub40X]

And it's how fragile these little millenials are nowadays, band their "woke entitlements".

[@wokingjames]

OHP =😒 TV rolled in = 😆

[@kungfuclassics1770]

Yes!

[@craiggriffiths9881]

This could be from vangelis it’s that good and totally agree what a time to be alive

[@marnanel]

It's on Spotify! I have it on a playlist

[@treguard1982]

One of the sounds used from 5:20 was very 'Channel 4' sounding indeed. I believe they may have used that in their own ident at the time and maybe during c4 news. Amazing piece of music that builds up well over the six minutes

[@christopherwilliams2093]

I think that what you are describing is maybe it's the music's way of indicating to viewers that you are watching Channel 4.

[@frazzleface753]

Interesting thought, but it's not likely as this was a library piece that wasn't written especially for C4 or anything else.

[@jane1975]

treguard1982 In the early days, Channel 4’s ident was composed by the omnipresent David Dundas, it was called 4 Square. He also composed the theme for ITV’s 1989 get ready campaign which was used in the Generic idents that some ITV franchises ( some said get lost to it ) that year, he also composed the Hearts Generic ITV theme and the themes for the Meridian ITV franchise.

[@treguard1982]

@@frazzleface753 Hmm, maybe a similar synthesiser was used? Guessing it isn't Roland, but can't quite place it

[@madmurdock100]

@@jane1975 Fourscore, not 4 Square

[@chuchan3989]

This makes me feel old

[@coolcattigger]

I reckon when ITV Schools finished in 1993 (and I'm sure everyone agrees) it should have had the full rotation like this for a proper send off :D

[@robkingwell274]

BRILL...just should of added "Just a Minute" to the end aswell

[@ecafssot]

@@TomAlter1000 ENGLISH GRAMMAR (Stage 2) _follows shortly…_

[@brucedanton]

@robinjuste76 Yes, that is right, and TSW became Westcountry, TV-am became GMTV, and Oracle became Teletext at the same time. All the other regions stayed the same. Thank you for the posting-well done!

[@chrisb4474]

Sickie days 😀😂

[@peterduggan5522]

Agreed mate

[@jane1975]

Yes, if you are off sick you could tune into Stop Look Listen.

[@michaelclarke124]

An animated character called Charlie was in Words and Pictures with Henry Woolf.

[@RosiieRoxx]

awesome computer graphics for the 80s!

[@kevinprior3549]

So ahead of it's time

[@mrraoulandtheking11]

what is so unique about this video is that the channel 4 ident hasn't changed at all

[@wokingjames]

It's because sometimes things are so engrained, even if dated you can't change. For example, the Corrie Theme, the Boots logo, if you change it now it alienates a huge amount of people

[@paulinegenner2588]

Good Old Days

[@MsBananasmel]

Those were the days. SIGH.

[@stephenread3311]

Bring This Ident Back

[@TheConsettonian1987]

I remember this icon when I was at school in the early years.

[@ryanwade6019]

It's a shame Kids aren't blessed with stuff like this now days. Glad I grew up in the late 80's 😌 🙂 Remember watching this in school

[@pagrant]

our teachers use to fast forward this, to stop some us swinging

[@benthejrporter]

According to Wiki "James Aldenham" is actually Brian Bennett of The Shadows.

[@GrahamPearson-oo4uy]

The full length version of The Journey would be played if the gap between two programmes was long.

[@TheDEATHSTARIII]

when I was sick of writing I used to love watching something in class

[@fraserkatie]

Wrexham Crossville Sub Tv have a full version of this on their website and many other BBC and ITV themes for schools

[@kathleenstewart1933]

and I also Like the ITV Schools on Channel 4 theme Tune called just a minute as well

[@acidburn7683]

Good times!

[@scotty87able]

They were the days

[@rossgardner9412]

Skive TV.

[@frazzleface753]

A bad case of Skivalitis? 😂

[@wokingjames]

In Wales bunking off school was called mitching!

[@kathleenstewart1933]

I Like the ITV Schools on Channel 4 theme tune called the journey

[@LoLzZ85]

Kicks off at around 4:00 minutes

[@beardsgirl]

Lmfao

[@annother3350]

I'm out of my seat

[@tonfeddtrys]

'The Journey' used to freak me out lol

[@danmcdaid]

Damn, this shreds

[@Moviesxp]

So weird. But it brings me back to P4

[@robertmonaghan5660]

Nice melody tune

[@kathleenmargaretstewart7100]

and I also Like the itv schools on Channel 4 them music called the journey & just aminuit

[@benthejrporter]

I remember saitting in classrooms watching this... I'm showin' me age!

[@adultmoshifan87]

Did these shows always air after midnight? Or did they air during the day when many were at school/college/work? I started primary school in 1993 and I remember we were shown, could’ve been taped off the TV or sold to the school on VHS, school shows like Words and Pictures, Number Time, Rat-A-Tat-Tat and Math is Fun! We were even shown Aussie kids show Lift Off on a few occasions!

[@marnanel]

Usually during the day, I think. There were a few late-night ones.

[@cupcakefairy87]

Between 9.00-12.00pm early morning to midday.

[@scottpeacock5492]

@@cupcakefairy87 No ITV Schools on 4 programmes was Broadcast between 9:30am -12:00pm, Start up was 2 minutes before the actual programmes begun starting at 9:28am or maybe longer depends.

[@kevinprior3549]

The spinning ITV and the clock were used instead of adverts between programs. Wish ITV, Ch4, Ch5, and the other channels (apart from BBC) did that now. Don't have to put up with so many car ads

[@adultmoshifan87]

@@scottpeacock5492 I know at one point the BBC had a Learning Zone that started at half past midnight

[@fraserkatie]

Yes it was!!!!

[@benthejrporter]

Dis anybody see those programmes with Derek Griffiths and that Doctor Who alien thing which kept saying: "Hello, Wordwatchers"

[@martindavis4308]

Were there ever any instances where a Roto Sequence of this length or similar actually got shown live on TV?

[@80sandretrogubbins25]

There was once an 11-minute junction. It can be found on youtube.

[@frazzleface753]

Yes, but it was very rare

[@Hgames_RBLX]

What’s next? Channel 4 Schools on Channel 5?

[@scottpeacock5492]

Ah no

[@MrIrrepressible]

Similar to the music of pilotwings

[@benthejrporter]

That's the one. Thanks.

[@fraserkatie]

I know how they did it!!! It spoilt the novelty of it when I found out it was all computer graphics as I thought always that the roto was a model!!!! Sadly not!!!! I love the music on both the roto and the timer!!!! If everyone wants the music for both they do it on SUB TV website as a downloadable mp3!

[@cosybike]

Does anyone remember a Helicopter Flying over a desert sequence with a Eurythmics underscore (Possibly Sweet dreams style with no vocal?) Maybe its just me???

[@Firthy2002]

Does anyone know how they created the rotating logo and the countdown clock sequence?

[@ajs41]

I think this debuted on Monday 14th September 1987.

[@80sandretrogubbins25]

Correct.

[@tonfeddtrys]

wasnt the 'Journey' composed by Brian Bennett?

[@Jamie839]

James Aldenham composed this track - an alias of..... ;-)

[@cartmanskittykat2197]

Brian Bennett. :)

[@del-boysnostalgiatvads7416]

Dis remind me of da school big tv ent it,

[@benthejrporter]

I know this tune is not by Mike Oldfield, but isn't it so much like one of his?

[@madderscientist23]

I wonder what computer they used for this?

[@martinluscombe1346]

ITV should have this & carlton idents for new era

[@christopherwilliams2093]

I can see why, when Channel 4 became independent of ITV in 1993, Carlton didn't actually produce schools programmes because they, like Channel 4, commissioned programmes from independent production companies and so it wouldn't have been possible for them to do that hence why Channel 4 were able to commission straight from them anyway. During the ITV Schools on 4 era, Thames, Central, Granada and Yorkshire were able to retain editorial control over programmes produced for them by independent producers.

[@robalexander8065]

​@@christopherwilliams2093 I think Grampian was also involved.

[@christopherwilliams2093]

@@robalexander8065 In what way were they involved?

[@robalexander8065]

@@christopherwilliams2093 They produced a couple of Schools series notably Living and Growing.

[@christopherwilliams2093]

@@robalexander8065 Yes they did, alongside Gather Round and Naturally Scottish, but the point I was referring to was, with the demise of Thames (they became an independent production company), Carlton which was also a publisher/broadcaster like Channel 4 would not be able to produce schools programmes themselves.