Rescuing the Left From Its Obsession With Culture - Vivek Chibber

[@perryeverett9636]

I think we need more dialogue like this. I've been working in automotive shops for 20 years around normal working class people. Leftist language is inaccessible and most have an aversion to it. You have to know your audience and meet them where they're at.

[@realdanrusso]

yes at the same time we shouldnt become anti-intellectual just because words are hard. if theories are right but they are difficult to explain popularly, it doesnt then mean we should discard those theories. plenty to learn from the likes of frankfurt school and cultural studies without becoming vulgar culturalists

[@perryeverett9636]

@@realdanrusso 100% agree. In my experience it takes repeated engagement to even attempt something that would resemble an intellectual conversation. If you're talking theory or anything that might be perceived as "big words" you're simply talking past most people. I want to figure out how to engage better. I want more discussion about method.

[@bbqnice1]

@@perryeverett9636 I find it's easier when there are concrete, immediate problems to discuss, or understandable proposals for improving one's lot.

[@perryeverett9636]

@@bbqnice1 I do also find that's a good place to start. The hurdle that I've faced living in the southeast is that, whether they fancy themselves politically engaged or not, the people I come across have been given simple conservative solutions to these issues that fit neatly into the conservative story they've been told their whole life. Hopefully we can make enough change that the real solutions will become more obvious and easier to talk about. The strikes happening now are fertile ground for planting seeds for people to think about.

[@jbagger331]

No I understand it just fine, I just notice that they only want to help people according to some fucked up color chart.

[@gregorybaillie2093]

Just when I thought the revolution was extinct along comes Vivek Chibber. Thanks to Jen Pan. Great find Jen, love ya work as well.

[@Trumpianet]

21:00-22:15 should be made into a short! phenomenal breakdown of the organizational process

[@patfahy727]

BINGO!

[@Nieosoba]

Looking forward to read the book, its funny that most of the points Vivek makes are absolutely obvious to labor organizer (if you got proper training). A lot of good points in the interview but one hit me especially. I organized couple of years ago strike including more than 8000 workers for collective agreement for more than 60000 workers and we won. There was obviously a lot of practical and political issues and we had two powerful unions to fight. That said I would say that even with power and resources counted in millions of euros (e.g. being able to pay 8000 people 80% of their wage during strike) the main problem in organizing is something Vivek called declassification so in simple terms getting close and leveling with working class people. I have university degree but was besides organizing working minimum wage, 12 hours shift job so It was easier for me to level with e.g. women working in cleaning department in hotel. I was very surprised how eager workers were to strike once they saw that there is REAL opportunity, how much they risked. It was amazing and heroic. On the other hand there is no more painful and unwanted change for middle class union leadership or bureaucracy (or public opinion) than to level and stand in solidarity with workers. This is the last thing they want - and this is very hard truth (because they are necessary for those organizations to function and succeed, let's be realistic). And by the way even illegal immigrants who were detained near the airport because we were helping them took their very limited opportunity to left the detention center to join the strike demonstration in the city because as one of them said to me: "We are all people, we all want to work and live dissent life".

[@elysium619]

I'm somewhat shocked at your observation about "middle class union leadership or bureaucracy to level and stand in solidarity with workers. This is the last thing they want." Isn't that the heart and soul and core mission of a union, to stand together. And the union LEADERSHIP pushes back against this?! In what sense then, are they leaders? Especially of a labor union! It is disgraceful. You would be hard pressed to identify another agency or organization that, by its nature, is held together more by its core value of collective solidarity and unity. But the leader doesn't lead?!!!!

[@Nieosoba]

@@elysium619 of course you are right that this is what suppose to be. But if we look at it based on class, especially if union is not small and leadership is not coming from shop floor but rather radical educated middle class then unfortunately it’s different. Those people are also very valuable and important for union to succeed but from beginning they have conflict of interest. Worker have their own, as Vivek says, either to keep your head down and count that maybe you will get lucky and keep the job or maybe even get promoted or to stick out, go against company and fight with your fellow workers. For middle class union leaders they already have much better position and they always have to decide: either I will risk for workers and betray my class or maybe I can still save my better position and even in union still be above workers. Use them to get my goals. Those people are needed but they should be always controlled by workers because they are inclined to use them rather then help them. I don’t know if this is more clear now. But by analogy look at politicians. They can be radical and fight for their constituents but once people ability to influence those politicians weakens politicians usually have their “doubts “: now I have a career as “people leader” why throw it away for some risky reform campaign when I can not do it and probably keep my career and join my rightful place as a leader among leaders. I said it very important because despite the fact that we won, union got destroyed by this leadership who started to think about union as their property and removed all means of workers pressure from union. The end effect is that this year they will probably lose collective agreement negotiations spectacularly. Why? Because they themselves removed all real power of the union regular workers engagement. This is very heartbreaking for me but it’s the truth

[@Jim-lr1zg]

Chibber is so brilliant and such a great speaker that I could listen to him all day.

[@Xiaoyandao]

Brilliant questions from Jen. All-round amazing conversation that needs to be had amongst the young left in all corners of the globe, many of whom's current members (including myself) have gained political consciousness not mainly through "hard experience", but theory and education.

[@SuperMrHiggins]

Just boosting this. The Sackler family radicalized me, but not everyone has to be so unlucky. It needs to be had amongst the left as a whole, in addition to the youth as you say.

[@CloakedG]

Amazing discussion, Vivek’s analysis is spot on, can’t overstate how important it is to meet people where they are..

[@trdiopn5737]

Vivek offers such clarity on what it will take to convince more people to question capitalism. The problem is that proponents of socialism seem like elitist know it alls who can’t relate to working people.

[@herohero-fw1vc]

This man is incredibly smart & spot on.

[@shannonm.townsend1232]

Help me out. I only hear the right talking, well complaining, about a culture war?

[@OjoRojo40]

Can you tell me please who's the working class nowadays? Thanks.

[@jl8942]

@@trdiopn5737 have you gone to a DSA meeting and met the people there? All the people at my local DSA are not elitist at all. They are everyday working people.

[@claborn79]

Enjoyed this discussion very much. Gives me a lot to think about, especially while I perform my daily resistance by taking a shit on the clock

[@phineascampbell3103]

I spent a few moments realizing what you were saying, during which I took your remark literally - I was a bit puzzled why you wanted to do that; maybe you'd got mad at the ticking of an analogue clock!

[@claborn79]

@@phineascampbell3103 LMAO! No, long bathroom breaks give me a sense of agency at work.

[@bbqnice1]

hear, hear, bro when I put the paper seat cover on there I feel like Lenin

[@claborn79]

@@bbqnice1 Revolutionary praxis must always include a purge of counter-revolutionay elements.

[@ivandafoe5451]

@@bbqnice1 I have never understood why people bother to do that paper thing to supposedly "protect themselves". A quick look around the washroom reveals everything you need...water, soap and paper...to easily clean off and dry the seat before you use it.

[@Work-WorkBalance]

Great analysis from Vivek!!

[@stephen_pfrimmer]

Thank you both.

[@crustydread]

This was AWSOME, very valuable stuff here guys!

[@hampusheh]

I agree with Vivek, and think he's great, but sometimes he can be a bit glib. For example, his charge that nationalist/more identity-based movements have been dominated by various elite groups. Well, that charge can just as plausibly be directed against the labor movement and unions. Just look at the intense history of divisions between the rank-and-file and the leaders, whether we're talking about unions or working class parties. The SPD before the First World War disintegrated over these divisions, and the Soviet Union degenerated its entire political and revolutionary culture over the politburo elite's prioritizing maintaining their own bureaucratic power above fostering an active autonomous opposition. So I completely agree with VC for the most part, but we have to be more precise in our analysis of various movement's failures. Because elite formation is always occurring in any political/group struggle - the question is how to discipline elites and make them accountable to the movement.

[@gregsimmons3323]

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't disagree with any of that.

[@yoramgt]

Very good point. I've never seen Marxists address this point. How do they propose countering "The Iron Law of Oligarchy"? You take all the risk and sacrifice and end up with a new boss, same as the old boss.

[@dgeellis9933]

Great talk. Jen Pan and the Jacobin are brilliant and refreshing. I got to say capitalism thrived in the USA 1945-1980 because there was a greater share of GDP spent on social welfare, rise in union membership, and taxes on top income floated around 90%-70% so capitalism functioned very differently during this cultural turn moment. It seems the culturalists largely ignore the working class polt/econ. gains of the era. I always wondered why so many post-structuralists were so dismissive of unions. The Neo-liberal plague, 1980-present have seen a decline in both cultural forces like church membership and working class power.

[@LongDefiant]

Social relations are powerful material forces. But a focus on social relations devoid of class awareness is impotent to bring about meaningful positive change.

[@LongDefiant]

The ABC's of American politics... You can talk about *Anything* *But* *Class*

[@jdsull]

Vivek is such a treasure.

[@joepollock7253]

Excellent discussion Jacobin

[@McRyach]

Vivek is a new star of the Left Philosophy !

[@lefttrunleft]

In the early 20th century, the industrial working class in the United States could mount a credible challenge to the capitalist system through strikes. However, since the 1970s the industrial working class in the United States has been decimated by globalization and outsourcing. The industrial working class that still exists in the United States is too insignificant in the global capitalist economy to be able to threaten the reproduction of capital. The largest portion of "working class" jobs in the United states are in the service sector, and a large portion of workers in these jobs seem to view their employment as temporary until they can get better jobs in other sectors of the economy. Plus the whole price structure in the economy has changed. Big ticket items such as housing and vehicles are way more expensive than they used to be, while a dizzying array of overseas manufactured consumer goods -- including clothing produced in places such as Bangladesh; and electronics that provide 24/7 entertainment of your choice on screens, produced mainly in China -- are available relatively cheaply compared to previous eras of capitalism. All of which plays a huge role in shaping how workers in the United States view their own self-interest relative to earlier eras of capitalism. Any analysis of how to go about challenging capitalism in the current era needs to take these things into account.

[@tonedowne]

Yeah, there is nothing more inherently valuable about a manufacturing job over a service job. It is just that there has been a long history of worker collectivism and action which has lead to manufacturing jobs having a higher status. But really in an economy dominated by the service sector, service sector jobs are everything. Service sector jobs are the glue that hold society together. All manufacturing workers could go on strike tomorrow and things would carry on, but if all the service sector workers went on strike, society would collapse. There would be no food, no refuse collection, no healthcare, things would get very ugly very quickly. Covid has brought that into sharp focus. Who were the essential workers who had to turn up to work? Most of them were lowly paid low status service sector workers. Those workers have real power

[@tomt55]

Fantastic discussion. This needs to be shared.

[@Who-vt9oh]

You talk about successful working class revolutions, but were they revolutions led by the working class, or were they revolutions led primarily by nationalists? Specifically, nationalists who were fighting for the liberation of their specific nation of people from some kind of foreign power?

[@rogerdinhelm4671]

Russian revolution wasn't about liberation from foreign power, although it wasn't led by a working class either.

[@tonguemybumb]

@@rogerdinhelm4671 It was lead by the working class in an alliance with the peasantry. The soviet worker and soldier councils were involved in the overthrow of the provisional government.

[@kenjohnson6326]

Listened to the beginning and it doesn't sound right at all. The reason the left lost the workers after the Second World War was largely affluence. Ordinary people were doing very well in the West for 30 years. Unions were strong, social democracy was expanding, times were good. So the possibility of radical change became focused on the counterculture and minorities. Today the victory of neoliberalism had brought great inequality and the possibility of radicalizing the masses.

[@yoramgt]

Yes. I don't think this contradicts the points made in the video. Like Chibber, you are making a materialist argument.

[@chrishorner7679]

Excellent. Next step would be to stage a debate between leftists who differ a bit a on these issues.

[@marcomiranda9476]

Good interviewer

[@bz7901]

This cat couldn't possibly be more spot-on.

[@mitchclark1532]

BRILLIANT

[@derhochwohlgeborene8548]

Well, this seems like a step backwards, disregarding the theoretical progress of the last seventy years. It seems that Chibber is critiquing people who have misread/misinterpreted the works of authors such as Adorno, Hall and Gramsci (who appear in the thumbnail but are not really mentioned in the video) instead of critiquing them directly. This is understandable as it would be a tough thing to find any proof that the mentioned authors put culture before class and economics or even discard the latter completely. If you read any of them you will find that they are interested in the complex ways that culture and economy are entangled and are used to support each other (especially Hall does this exceptionally). Also the concept of hegemony implies the usage of the carrot and the stick, meaning that hegemony always relies on (economic) force as well as consent. Propaganda is a means of creating and ensuring consent. The idea of the cultural turn is that culture does matter too -- not that culture is the only thing that matters. The cultural turn is a break with reductionism. And it would seem to follow that some kind of racial/ethnic reductionism is equally absurd as class reductionism. As Chibber seems to agree with most of these points his argument seems redundant. And who the hell is still seriously arguing along the lines of false consciousness? Maybe the argument presented here makes sense only in the US-context and its specific debate. In general terms it does not.

[@heraclitusblacking1293]

I agree wholeheartedly, and I am an American. I think my initial response to Vivek is that he speaks of social categories in fixed, reified terms. At about 5 mins, he says, summarizing the position of those he is criticizing, "the intellectuals understand the situation better than workers do." In reality, there is no independent, coherent social category of "intellectuals." Intellectuals are defined by other categories, like academic, journalistic, revolutionary, progressive, fascist, scientific, etc. Vivek appeals to some kind of elitist intellectual club dominating and distracting the authentic, idealized figure of the worker from their "objective interests." It is a projection of Vivek's own elitism. For all his talk about corrupt intellectuals, let's not forget that he is a full professor at New York University. And HE is the one speaking with a condescending air of superiority.

[@ili626]

around @10:30 “They’re not acting against their interests. They’re acting for their interests to the best of their ability”. This is a critical insight… they need a socialist party offering true solutions not the GOP’s anti-tax & anti-immigrant faux solutions

[@nrquy]

Examples: Abortion Rights and Women's Suffrage were gender based and resulted in structure change. Voting Rights and Desegregation were race and ethnic based and caused structural changes.

[@LitArtCulture]

Great conversation. It was very much in line with Vivek's critique of postcolonialism

[@larshofler8298]

I don't think you can return to class politics by abandoning the cultural sphere. What the Left in this country lacks so much is the capacity to intervene (or even understand) the increasingly online cultural sphere. And what many traditional Marxists don't see is how culture is no longer just a byproduct of capitalist reproduction, but that capital accumulation is heavily dependent on cultural/content production as a major surplus-generating field.

[@Sophia-ix2ri]

This explains why I've never liked the "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" line. It's never rang true from my experience with the working class. We know we're not rich and many of us know we have no chance of ever getting rich. Capitalist realism is what is really crushing people, not delusion that they actually like being screwed by their company.

[@bertbaker7067]

I'm a union electrician, i don't think the effect of propaganda can be overstated. Also, as he said, individual economic precariousness means top priority is keeping your job. Everyone's one or two paychecks from eviction, and when everyone is that desperate, trust is hard to come by, because you can be replaced. Also, examples of selfishness and success are a lot more conspicuous these days, rather than solidarity and success. I wish/hope I'm wrong. Solidarity forever ✊

[@SgtJackRose]

I try and tell the Trumpers - we want everyone to have a union job, screw the other stuff. Unions mean Democracy. Solidarity 👊

[@nimblehuman]

Why is the notion that people who are talked down to will reflexively reject any idea being presented in condescending fashion such a surprise or so exclusive to the "left?" If solidarity with people is what you seek, not treating them with condescension and contempt should be the bare baseline from which to proceed. It's dismal that this point needs to be belabored.

[@rabbit-ku1bn]

Very true.

[@bbqnice1]

we are supposedly the workers' political faction but we dislike construction (gentrification!), cops (agents of capitalist property relations!), military service (empire's minions!), resource extractors (the environment!) and want their jobs to go away

[@kenari5763]

Bring this show back

[@deborahrenaut3150]

People are thrown into a state of indebtedness. Usury and a monetary system that is based on debt forces people to be obedient slaves. This is a great video lots of truth here.

[@timmoore3188]

It's really the elites who think in a materialistic way about the goal of work being about gaining as much money, status comfort as you can. I was of above average intelligence (at one time, I wonder now) and could have been an engineer, and accountant, whatever, but that work really turned me off at the time. I liked labor, yes laboring. I've met many others whose motivations were similar. They chose work for many non materialistic more emotional factors. They were intelligent, but hated the ideal of going to school past high school or maybe before that. Of coarse all what to make enough so life is not a supreme struggle. That's not what I am saying, just that there are many factors involved in a person's work choices. I never liked having a boss, but I have met others who like having a boss, the reason being it frees them from having to think, plan worry about the work. Socialists often look down at these kind of people, which is kind of strange, because the revolutions in Russia and China ended up ruling by this paternalist attitude of we know best, you sit back and don't think too much about it. So by what criteria were these revolutions deemed successful? They did improve the material lives of many of their citizens, so does capitalism claim, but is that all there is? I?

[@aurelia5614]

It’s not just about improving their material lives…it is to free up enough time for citizens to feel human, identify & grow their own values AND participate in a system that values, listens and acts on its members needs & wants. A system that reduces/stops humans being alienated from their humanity and the planet they were born from.

[@GayTier1Operator]

vivek chibber is one of the only academics who understands the class structure as marx did. everyone else has reversed the order of things, or altogether abandoned the idea of causal linkages

[@heraclitusblacking1293]

When did Marx draw a distinction between "workers" and "intellectuals?" To Marx there are two classes, one antagonism: the workers and the capitalists. Academics, journalists, etc. sell their labor power on a market for a salary. That makes them workers.

[@GayTier1Operator]

@@heraclitusblacking1293 i never said he did. marx does, however, draw a distinction between productive and unproductive labor. both are labors that are sold but are qualitatively different for how they engage with the materials of the earth

[@TechMik3LP]

@@heraclitusblacking1293 workers and capitalists is the main contradiction marx and all marxists after him very much focus on other castes/classes like the inteligentsia

[@alvaromd3203]

Great explanation on voting against self interest.

[@judithwyer389]

The left of the sixties and seventies was the "counter culture." Culture was its focus not economics or the worker. In fact some unions opposed the anti-war demonstrations by "spoiled" college students and they supported Nixon's law and order policies. There is a video somewhere on KZbin where you see NYC construction workers supporting the police who are beating demonstrators protesting against Kissinger's assault on Cambodia.

[@brandy8995]

I'll have to check out the new book

[@MichaelWilson-ee8zx]

If Chibber had been spending his days in direct contact with "the working class" in the early 80s as neoliberal ideology was taking hold in the public sphere, he would understand that even people who had cast a sceptical eye on the overall "system" throughout the 70s began to agree that it was unions and left economic policies that were driving jobs out of N America and that the only way to compete with Japan was to accept the cutbacks and the diminution of union power. When people talk about the working class "giving consent" through cultural conditioning and ideological propaganda they are NOT talking bout agreeing to go to work or do shit jobs. They are talking about consenting to the notion that capitalism is the only way to organize society and economy and that neoliberal reforms were the way to go about reestablishing "western" dominance and therefore worker incomes. But like so many academics, Chibber was definitely not spending time with the working class as that cultural turn was actually taking place. He still isn't.

[@demsocialism]

16:29 also generally explains why Sanders' proposals poll well in the South but the voters there voted for Biden.

[@anthonychristie7781]

On Jacobin everyone always refers to the working class/the members thereof as "they". Are you not workers? Is it not "we"? This patronizing (sorry, Jen; maybe matronizing?) attitude is annoying and counterproductive. Please stop it. Thx. (Tony. Ontario trucker.)

[@darrylgoodwin7947]

I like this guy

[@57stapler]

Truth for me is -I'd much rather a skilled organizer than someone "I can have a beer with" any day.

[@prschuster]

Workers will say they like capitalism, but they hate what capitalism is doing to them. They know how they are being mistreated.

[@MrMalimer]

Perfect video 10/10

[@tfustudios]

It's always assumed that the workers revolt will be lead by the workers themselves, when in actuality, it's the PHD's and products of the academia/banking/industrial complex whom tend to lead those movements.

[@ClassAlex]

Chibber is broadly correct but he is wrong about the Frankfurt School as culturalist. Again and again in thinkers like Adorno and Neumann we find a detailed explanation of the manufacture of consent, of the way that fear of losing one's job compels people to either assimilate to the given bad or seek short term relief in the form of conformist rebellion ie populism.

[@EricaEteson]

Was the 1960s civil rights movement an example of a successful race-based movement?

[@yoramgt]

Right. This should at least have been addressed even if not conceded.

[@williams.1980]

👍visualize this dialogue expanding

[@hndrwn]

If anyone wants to act upon his great dignifying way to connect with the working class, read Saul Alinsky.

[@noheroespublishing1907]

The hollow hopes of moralism leads to the dead end of idealism.

[@matthewkopp2391]

I think this misses a really important point. The socialists and Marxists who came out of Weimar including the Frankfurt School Adorno, Marcuse and the Christian socialist Paul Tillich focused on cultural issues specifically from their shock of the rise of Nazism where much of the working class became racist extremists. I don’t like Marcuse‘s divorce from the working class but this shift from class to social issues was still important. And Marcuse was targeted for being Jewish just as MLK was targeted for being black. I think Tillich was much more successful because he was Christian and lead the interfaith movement and worked with MLK. But these left cultural movements really made US culture LESS RACIST. Which is a great foundation which is now more receptive to a real United worker movement which was not even possible in the 1950‘s and 60‘s because of racist divisions which were always a problem.

[@wheelerboy_]

hes my professor at nyu and hes such a chad

[@simonArmenia1]

Interesting stuff

[@ConnerFields-jr9kb]

I've seen workers not want to ban together, or want to ban together and then not show up to the worker's committee meeting.

[@bl7406]

This gave me a headache. He keeps using the word "culture", without even explaining what it is!! I would never buy his book!

[@CaleBrooks]

I wish we had defined this in the video, but unfortunately we didn't. Thankful at the very beginning of Chibber's book, he added a note on terminology that reads: One of the most frequently used concepts in this book is “culture.” Among contemporary theorists, the concept is understood in two distinct ways. One tradition, associated perhaps most famously with Raymond Williams, takes it to mean an entire “way of life”-the gamut of social practices that distinguish one social formation or one epoch from an- other. This includes not only religion, ideology, the arts, and literature but also political and economic institutions. Another, more narrow use of the term uses it to denote ideology, discourse, normative codes, and so on- together comprising the interpretive dimension of social practices. In this book, unless otherwise noted, I will always use “culture” and its cognates in the latter sense. There is a reason for this. One of the primary goals of the book is to respond to the challenges to structural class theory issued by proponents of the “cultural turn.” That challenge only makes sense if “culture” is understood in this particular way-as will be clear in the course of the book. It is a practical decision, not an epistemological stance. Readers who feel strongly that the concept should not be used in this fashion can feel free to substitute “ideology” or “discourse” whenever they see “culture.” I usually use them interchangeably.

[@cuantrail]

@@CaleBrooks I think culture not being easily definable is what makes it problematic to develop theories based on the concept. Asking if two people share the same culture is like asking if two people look alike, or if two people live close together, it can only be relative and subjective at best. Compare it to the concepts of factory worker and factory owner, they seem much easier to define. Would love to hear more from Jacobin about how to understand the word culture. Maybe a show dedicated to how people have historically defined the concept in different ways?

[@robertbrennan2268]

Vivek's distinction between workers' understanding of their immediate condition sand the questions about the wider system of course introduces a cultural or mediated dimension. This was the core of the work in cultural materialism in Europe. In Europe class consciousness is a given however medicated. there is no "civic religion" as in USA focused on the individual in a presumed class free society. Gramsci, Stuart Hall, Raymond Williams, Terry Eagleton - and the Frankfurt School all looked at mediation. You could not "read off " culture as simple reflection in the superstructure of the economic base. Culture had an active mediating role between interests embedded in the base structure and culture/consciousness in the superstructure.This is exactly the question of how "information" is filtered by the superstructure to workers at the "coal face" of the base. This insight is unavoidable. What Western Marxism in Europe had to deal with was the economism of Communist Parties (Stalinist parties). Of course, Vivek is right that bourgeois "marxisant" thinkers generate an inteligentsia who condescend to the Working Class. But institutions such as the Birmingham Centre for Cultural Studies looked in detail at structures of resistance within Working Class culture such as Punk. None of this work was condescending!

[@maxlopez7284]

I find these abstract and vague critiques of “culturalism” to be so frustrating. There is a lot of cultural studies, feminist theory, etc. that includes and supports a robust class analysis. This impulse to indirectly dismiss the work of Stuart Hall and others is just shouting at clouds.

[@bbqnice1]

Not clouds so much as the majority of members of the current socialist movement, including all federal-level elected officials except the one we inherited from an earlier era

[@juanmanikings]

People keep telling that there are cultureal studies with class analyisss but i've yet to see any

[@termsofusepolice]

Living in a right-to-work state I have rubbed shoulders with many, many people who actually work in union shops but who refuse to personally join the union. Their rationale is very clear: They believe they would ultimately pay more in dues than they will receive in wage or benefit increases produced by union leverage. It's not rocket science. Either these workers are right and the unions in question are impotent or the workers are wrong and therefore must be engaged with as ignorant people in need of education and correction.

[@williams.1980]

That is interesting.

[@lobstermacsansbro477]

I think this is a really good point and extension of what Vivek is talking about. The actual conditions workers face in individual circumstances vary. Not all unions are effective and becoming involved in a union is ultimately not a question of ideals but of costs versus rewards. I don't think the solution in any case is to treat anyone as "ignorant people in need of correction." No one wants to be treated as ignorant especially when it comes to these sort of choices. Questions of security and money are difficult and often come down to circumstance as much as knowledge. Particularly is a choice involves giving up part of your income and adhering to the structure of an additional organization on top of that of your employment, that would give anyone pause. Before any sort of "education" there should be an honest examination of the situation of the person you are trying to educate. Like Vivek says, worker organization is not an appealing idea on practical, individua level. It might not just be a question of if a worker understands what's best, but if the best option actually serves the worker.

[@georgesais8687]

Jen I'm in Sydney Australia but I know that workers in the U S fought for the 8 hour working day. May day came out of the U S. There were constant beatings by police but united the workers won. Noam Chomsky states about the factory girls and how they striked. But capitalism with the media on its side with constant propaganda of the individual pressed on, especially after the 2nd world war. Now, the U S doesn't even have a national health scheme. Perhaps Chomsky's ( again) manufacturing consent might help. Also watch Charlie Chaplin's Modern Times. Read Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath...

[@WeThePeople76]

The problem with Civek’s analysis is it doesn’t explain how so many people have continued loyalty to such an unambiguous scoundrel as Donald Trump.

[@NameName-lv4lu]

So I am a little confused who this video targets. My assumption is that everyone who watches jacobin is like me -working class, poor or lower middle class. I am a factory worker at a unionized plant, I have a great wage. So is this video telling workers and lower middle class people on the left how to talk to their coworkers or is this video targeted toward the miniscule group of jacobin viewers who are labour organizers/theorists and middle-class leftist media and journalists? Like a sort of in group metavideo that could of been discussed in a zoom call among yourselves? As a leftist working class person, I find it patronizing to be told that leftist university graduates should need to learn to talk to people like me because otherwise organizing can't happen. I understand we need leftie lawyers and leftie media and leftie journalists and leftie project managers and leftie accountants, etc, but why do they have to be our leaders? Why do they have to "meet us where we are" instead of us just organizing ourselves? Worker to worker. Can't we just hire these people to fulfill their function ie an accountant? Why does the accountant need organizing language tips?

[@tbr7921]

He's speaking to DSA middle class college educated millenials

[@NameName-lv4lu]

@Tara Bianca Rado hmm... I can guarantee that 30 and 40 an 50 year old working class people don't want to be led by that demographic even if they do speak the right language

[@tbr7921]

I believe you...If only there was 40% more of you in the DSA and other socialists orgs...

[@tbr7921]

@@NameName-lv4lu there us a caucus of the DSA that is called Class Unity, they are trying to work on recruting more working class people from labor and just in general to socialism/organizing...

[@heraclitusblacking1293]

I think most Jacobin readers are college educated lefties who live in university towns.

[@TranceGamerx]

Capitalism Just Another Word for Neo Social Darwinism ):

[@ConanDuke]

Yellow Vest: DEVO Hat.

[@williamerdman4888]

I literally think I heard more bullshit in less time in this discussion than any other podcast I have listened to. Chibber makes so many assumptions about working people that just don't stand up to reality. He's another intellectual who doesn't get it, but he's got a new spin.

[@EricaEteson]

What assumptions did he make that you see as BS?

[@annebronte4]

Sounds good, but does Vevek's book cost $35? Who has that kind of. money for a kindle book?

[@dr.zoidberg8666]

I can't afford all the books I want either. You should go check out your local library... most of the time if they don't have the book you're looking for, they'll order it for you for free.

[@TheBeatle49]

Keep your eyes on eBay. Most books begin to decline in price in the second-hand market.

[@realdanrusso]

you do realize you're saying more or less the same thing as the false consciousness "duped" argument, right? the only difference is that you say its not appropriate to say out loud and that we need reframe with messaging...same substance, different form

[@leonkhachooni3287]

How can you call the grinding lack of opportunity "passive consent?" Bad choice of words here, but in all other regards, I think your observations and conclusions are sound.

[@bluecoffee8414]

i was HOPING the title would be "Rescuing the left from its obsession with RACE." However I found thus conversation interesting even though I am on the right. Vivek makes spot-on points about the condescension of the working class.

[@episdosas9949]

theres more to life than just class struggles. without culture people are just numbers. culture is a persons cosmo vision. its part of the collective soul. it takes race class and gender changes together to change the system. you dont pit them against each other. color blindness fits into maintaining the systemic racist structure. no class reductionism.

[@tonedowne]

I would argue that culture isn't really the job of government. It is very easy to step into something unpleasant if you end up with a government which thinks it has been elected on a mandate of changing peoples attitudes and controlling belief. The other thing is that when you politicise identity, you are straying onto the home turf of fascists. Their arguments are easy to understand and build on nationalist and religious sentiments that already exist and are regularly invoked by the political mainstream. By comparison, trying to sell people on intersectionality and the detailed history of systemic racism, is pushing a boulder up a hill. Class is easier to understand, more materially relevant to more people, and forms the foundation of economic understanding as well as the concept of society wide unity. A lot of people view inserting race and gender into the left wing narrative as a highjacking of the left by bourgeois liberals. Working class people are often slow to take on progressive social attitudes, so they are cast as the enemy by liberals and pushed into the arms of the far right. The debate over social attitudes takes place in the media, as it should. Government shouldn't be about culture or soul or whatever, it should be about functionality. It can be cold and technical, so long as it isn't legislating on how people think.

[@episdosas9949]

@@tonedowne facism is about being a police state. not culture. culture is a part of everything, even governments have cultures to them. and the first amendment has to do with freedom of and from religion, which is similar to culture. the government job is to make that people have the freedom to express themselves. funny how the right leaners want to make leftist into facist when its the right wing burning books and banning crt. they re the ones telling people who to think since ww1. the reason some people dont want to deal with race or gender is because it doesnt affect them. usually whyte men who dont feel the affects of the system. its theory to them, that they dont want to understand. because it would affect their privileges. if it wasnt for the government getting involved, there would still be segregation. the idea that liberals arent working class people is a right wing talking point. just cus someone has a college degree, that doesnt disqualify them as working class. the difference between working class and owner class is ownership not an education. these so called classist leftist who join the right wingers arent real leftists if they want to maintain their race and gender status quos. they already are right wingers who are arm chair leftists. they re not willing to change. leftist shouldnt hold back from progress because some all group wiithin their group dont want to evolve. thats like saying slaves should what for their freedom cus it makes whyte people uncomfortable. and they will join the confederacy.

[@episdosas9949]

@@tonedowne and soul is an important aspect of life. whether people call it spirit, god or gods, or elements. theres more to life that work. thats why i personally was never a marxist. i can understand theory but theres more to life than just theory. the devastation that was committed on people and the culture, which is their groups structure should not be minimalized or ignored. marx was part of the same culture so it wasnt an issue for him.

[@tonedowne]

@@episdosas9949 Fascism is all about culture. It is hyper nationalism with the corner stone being the superiority of the chosen race. It is the ultimate expression of identity politics. The police state is just the by product of enforcing such an insane and inhumane belief system. Dissecting the population down into ever more niche categories is a fascists dream, as it makes oppression easier. Because it disconnects people from each other so there is less empathy, not more. Taking an economic view is not brushing race under the carpet, quite the opposite. It allows people, communities and areas to be allocated resources based on need. It encourages structural development over charitable band aids. It requires honesty, both historical and current, because without it the data will be wrong and the problem will not be overcome. As an old socialist once said, 'Each problem brings its solution with it". Which is why the right is so hell bent on controlling the historical narrative right now. Obscuring the reality of the problem obscures the solution, which benefits the status quo. The right have engaged in a culture war because they know it works in their favour. They know that it is easy to split people with common economic interests down the line of socially progressive Vs socially conservative. Especially when there is so much low hanging fruit like 'Man outraged at being misgendered by nurses after giving birth to baby". There is a full time conservative outrage machine scouring the net for stories like that. Because they don't want to talk about healthcare or inequality or exploitation or the socio economic legacy of systemic racism or the disastrous slide into monopoly/end stage capitalism brought about by the Milton Friedman style economic ideology. They want to preserve that ideology, and the best way to do that is to go after all the minority groups that the liberals have so handily "othered" from mainstream society. With race, the biggest obstacle is the missed rights of generations of oppressed races to build capital over generations. Then you add the generational effect of outlawing education for years and the picture becomes clearer, as does the solutions. It is not about charity and good vibes, it is about institutions and access. You can se that it is never going to get better while public schools are funded by local land tax, in fact it is going to get worse. It takes proper left wing thinking to put skill and resources where they are most needed instead of where they are most rewarded. Social liberalism just doesn't challenge the power structure at all, if it did, they would have clamped down on it. In fact I would argue that it is the opposite, it has enabled the oppressors to virtue signal while they do upward wealth redistribution destroy the planet and profit from human misery. Social liberals have been assimilated into the system as just another marketing demographic to sell things to.

[@episdosas9949]

@@tonedowne culture was not the problem by it self. it was the authoritarian extremiest parts of those people. theres a difference between having a culture, preserving a culture snd trying to jenocide other culture. which is kinda like telling people to ignore their culture and just focus on the economy. they have to wotk together. before the unions were segregated. they opened them up to people of color and they were still racists. for you maybe its virtue signalling but for people of color its changing hostile work environments. culture is not the same as social liberalism. conservatives like to control the conversation by making them the same. yet its not the boogie and people shouldnt be required to leave it behind or fight for equality. if people followed. that nothing would change. change dont come from being worried about making people uncomfortable. thats desantis new law. not leftist beliefs.

[@deanrao4805]

Workers won't unite because they realize what will happen to them if they stop making their conventional sacrifices to the all-powerful gods. In earlier times people had to appease Zeus, Jupiter, et al. It's no different now, other than the names of our gods.

[@williams.1980]

I can't help but ask. What are the names of the Gods now?

[@groovalotfunk4147]

Class is more than what your job is! You are not answering questions like: who pays your debt? Could you go live with Mom and Dad if you had to? Could you borrow $ from mom and dad?

[@heraclitusblacking1293]

I think Vivek Chibber's anti intellectualism should be dismissed. Intellectuals and workers are not distinct categories in society (at least, according to a Marxist theory), so Chibber's blaming intellectuals for misleading workers from their "objective interests" just doesn't ring true.

[@bryanrusso9727]

Yep. Teachers are workers, researchers are workers, writers are workers, etc. We should be aiming to equalize the culturally "prestigious" jobs with what are disingenuously called "unskilled." Truck drivers and philosophy teachers may not both be "essential workers" in the same way, and their labor may not be demanding in the same way, but they both contribute enormously to society and suffer from exploitation (no teacher, at any level as far as I'm aware, controls "the means of production").

[@Saysonow]

I find the title very problematic.

[@niksatan]

This guy is only one who makes sense in sea of "leftist" bs

[@matthewa.930]

The intellectual level of the discussions here is always very high, but has anyone considered that might be part of the problem, and not the solution? Highly intelligent people exist from the neck up, their whole world is ideas and communication. Working class people exist more from the neck down-- our bodies are more important because that's what we're using all the time. The "problem" with working class people has almost nothing to do with abstract ideas floating around in our brains-- it's in our feelings, our bodies, our hearts, our guts. We feel exhausted, demoralized, overwhelmed, dejected, and kind of hopeless. Nobody at the lower levels thinks a class struggle is going to work or make things better, and it sure has the potential to make things worse. First jobs to go overseas are the high wage union jobs. Better a steady medium wage job that lasts than a premium wage job that doesn't. There's also the issue of trust. A lot of working class people don't trust the people on the Left or their plans, not to mention their motives. The Great Resignation got mentioned-- try using that word in the other way, as a feeling, not an act. We're feeling a Great (deal of) Resignation. We're still working out here, we're just resigned to our fate, and we'll take what they offer... which might not be much, but it's better than nothing.

[@rabbit-ku1bn]

I was trying to write this. I could not arrange the words properly. Thanks for bringing this up.

[@OjoRojo40]

Please someone tell this guy that all the big revolutions of the 19th century were bourgeois.

[@ronrice1931]

Nevertheless it would be foolish to deny the enormous difference between what I know and what most people know. Resist paternalism, sure, but own that you're smarter than them.

[@stevencolatrella3257]

You're really not. Please see Protagoras.

[@ronrice1931]

@@stevencolatrella3257 Oh you. Denying that you're privileged, that's so sweet!

[@alexross5714]

Sorry, but if you’re so smart, then why is it you apparently don’t know the meaning of the word “smart?” Clue: it doesn’t mean privileged.

[@ronrice1931]

@@alexross5714 I am using "smart" in the sense of "educated". So yes, it does mean "privileged."

[@alexross5714]

@@ronrice1931 Respectfully, I believe your careless use of language (conflating "smart," "educated," and "privileged," which are related terms but clearly not interchangeable) betrays the very hubris Vivek is warning against in the video. Being "enormously" more educated than "most people" doesn't make you smarter than them; it merely means that you have access to certain resources that they lack. On the other hand, your privileged background undoubtedly makes you blind to some of the realities that have shaped and informed their lives. Intelligence cannot be easily quantified; it is multifaceted and takes many forms. I think the point you were getting at in your comment was that educated political activists should not engage in false modesty about the tools they bring to the table or idealize working class culture. Agreed. But it's important to remember that ordinary working people also bring tools that are not available to you. Most people have an innate sense about when people are looking down on them or using them as a means to an end. So if you really want to engage with them successfully, a measure of genuine humility is called for.

[@DEWwords]

Fucking terrific

[@IronDBZ]

By Azura

[@Cyberphunkisms]

have a critique of vivek's new book; "defence of spivak"

[@beyondaboundary6034]

As Majumdar shows in Silencing the Subaltern, Spivak "discovers" resistance in acts like suicide by redefining what resistance is. The upshot is that Spivak's understanding of resistance is useful for academics but useless for actually changing the status quo, which is why it became so popular as academia was being neoliberalized in the 1980s and 1990s. Spivak also pushed Derrida's nonsensical word salad as something profound. Derrida and Spivak, however brilliant, ultimately offer elitist intellectual masturbation rather than a coherent way of making the world a better place.

[@nininini035]

Great talk, it's all about Paulo Freire! ❤

[@smith6752]

lol @ the edits

[@Wraifen]

Stopped listening after hearing his pedantic prevarication regarding false consciousness and working class voter interests. He just ends up making a distinction without a difference.

[@IshtarNike]

It really does. Like I’m sorry but it’s just a fact, talk to any normie person and you’ll see how they’re steeped in culture and ideology. The things they do are 100% rational… within that system. But they don’t realise the facts and falsehoods of the system. I don’t really see how implying they’re somehow 100% aware of everything but simultaneously voting for republicans because… reasons. Because what? Because they just want the left to try harder? To be less elitist? Is there a coal miner out there saying “I would unionise my workplace and over throw capitalism but a blue check twitter socialist sneered at me once so instead I’m going to vote republican and demonise poor people. That’ll teach the left to respect me more and try harder to win me over!”

[@Wraifen]

@@IshtarNike Right, I mean obviously condescension doesn't help, tactically speaking, but it's hardly mutually exclusive to the idea that people have been made dupes, and as unwarranted as it is, condescension itself is hardly a significant matter in the grand scheme. There's no evading the reality of false consciousness-base and superstructure as we know it renders a great many stupid, robbing them of their capacities, and, among them, their intelligence. It's nothing personal-it's not about mere naivety, mere gullibility, but rather those sociopolitical structures and attendant material conditions which inevitably produces it, making it in no way elitist or offensive to claim.

[@Wraifen]

People like to act as though "privilege" just affords people nice stuff and nothing more. But the bitter, ineluctable truth is that it changes who you are.

[@juanmanikings]

@@Wraifen God comments like yours in jacobin videos don't contribite anything why i always find stupid comments like yours in this channel?

[@arunjetli7909]

Young lady, keep dreaming U need to teach tennis trying to develop players to understand what motivation is, it is not a casual issue, it is central to existence for proper action

[@jbagger331]

Unlimited immigration serves the bosses. Byebye Jacobin, this made somewhat sense for11 minutes.

[@dameongeppetto]

An intellectual who gets it? What is this world coming to? More of this, less of the preaching about the ills of the unwashed masses.

[@edwardstrickler9280]

This analysis is perfectly reasonable. And several hypotheses 1. that 'the intellectual Left aka progressive (Dems)' has poor or no historical perspective 2. that 'the intellectual Left aka progressives (Dems)' has lost reasonable analysis and therefore makes unreasonable/unproductive choices' 3. that 'the intellectual Left aka progressives (Dems)' poorly uses its cultural power' are tested successfully. YES, re: 1 - examples from US history alone shows that working class movements are in fact possible and can be successful, and furthermore, these can be anti-racist (not in the way stupid 'Left' elites think of it, but in humane experiences of solidarity of working class people) YES, re 2. - DUH! ain't it plain to see that progressives routinely INSULT working class people and working class movements all the time, apparently with a clue that they are insulting them. For example: the liberty-minded truckers should be supported not condemned as elite Left politicians (Trudeau, etc) and elite Left cultural leaders have done and are doing YES, re 3. - with the immense cultural power the intellectual Left has - by more or less OWNING and CONTROLLING and PROFITING from discourse in most colleges and universities (btw university professors and DEI professionals are NOT WORKING CLASS; they are RICH ELITES! and also typically ELITE SNOTS!), by more or less CONTROLLING discourse in most legacy media (again, these are RICH ELITES! and also typically ELITE SNOTS!), by more or less OWNING and PROFITING IMMENSELY from cultural production (from popular musics to movies to pro sports, etc) they still have no steady influential cultural production that attracts and influences working class people (perhaps some pro sports players, but rarely, perhaps some popular music celebrities, but rarely). And, all three hypotheses are proved by disproving the null hypothesis: 'that the intellectual Left aka progressives (Dems') are gaining ground with rural American electorates. Since more rural places, communities and households are VERY MUCH WORKING CLASS the null hypothesis is that 'the intellectual Left' has developed and implemented strategies and plans that are including more rural Americans'. In fact this excellent article published by Jacobin - jacobinmag.com/2020/01/capitalism-underdeveloped-rural-america-trump-white-working-class - states why this is the correct null hypothesis. But, there is no evidence that 'the intellectual Left' has read or understood this article - from Jacobin! - when we consistently see and hear 'intellectual Left' shaming and blaming rural people. BTW, where do you think MOST truck drivers live? RURAL PLACES, you idiot! Take a vacation in rural Appalachia, etc: owning/leasing and driving a big truck if one of the few 'good jobs' left for many rural Americans. Oh, and many and more and more truck drivers are female-identified and 'of color' ... ... but of course if you go out big truck plazas on the interstates and try to mobilize them on 'gender fluid representation' or 'White Fragility ideology' you will soon find out how easily it is to prove Professor Chibber's points! Go try it. Take a break from your city/intellectual/cultural poshness and spend a weekend, or a week, at big plaza truck stops. Eat there. Shower there. Get a room in the travel plaza motel where truckers stay/ Buy groups of truckers dinner. Talk. But, best not to start off with 'social construction of gender theories' or 'White Fragility privilege lines' ... BUT, if you do, you'll immediately prover Vivek Chibber CORRECT! and disprove the null hypothesis that you know how to organize with working class people.

[@heraclitusblacking1293]

Your comment is anti intellectual, paranoid trash.

[@geoffreynhill2833]

The aftermath of NeroLiberalism... 🤥

[@SgtJackRose]

I haven’t golfed in awhile, but when you finally get the hang of it and play with someone just starting out… it’s insanely frustrating. You watch and it’s like “was I that bad when in started?” The simple fact is I was. I cringe looking back at how I embarrassed myself. But I had no idea, until I got to the other side. These poor soul have firehoses pointed at them now. Still it’s like talking to a wall sometimes.

[@ClaudiaVaduvescu]

We should call it far left

[@SnabbKassa]

Not having a neighbour who is a criminal is in their interest and also in the collective interest of the neighbourhood. The poor suffer most when the hard left want to defund the police.

[@VincentTroia]

random off topic comment. nonetheless your premises are completely wrong and inadequate.

[@pantherpopel551]

.

[@sheilawade433]

It seems inherently arrogant to refer to class as intellectuals vs workers. Marxist language is offensive to many " poor and working class people". It sounds anachronistic. The stereotype of "working class" sounds straight from tv sitcoms. Employers at least speak to their "employees" as if they are sentient beings. It is up to "Intellectuals" to do the "work" to reform and modernize Marxist ideas, reframe the superstructure in terms of shared goals,. You cannot recruit people to to do that for you. Most are too suspicious of anyone who uses Marxist vocabulary. Start with Citizens United. Will read book.

[@stuartshadwell7249]

Trucker convoy

[@grmpEqweer]

What about it? Owner/operator truck drivers essentially own their own business.

[@alexberkowitz5897]

But at this point , with one foot in no shit techno-feudalism, and all these dudes taking loans from the same Fucking bank practically, subscribing to the same 5 entertainment/propaganda companies as the rest of us,what does it matter? This is like calling them kulaks

[@stuartshadwell7249]

@@grmpEqweer I own my car and am a Uber employee, guess that makes me a owner/operator Mr. Pitchforks

[@grmpEqweer]

Being O/O allowed them to harass the crap out of the city of Ottawa and block border crossings. Don't assume the trucker convoy represented the interests of a large number of truckers. ...One of the people I follow here was there when a large number of Ottawa residents had a mass protest and got the convoy to leave Ottawa. They're getting removed from the border crossings. So we'll see what happens. BTW, two convoy members tried to set an apartment building on fire in Ottawa, this was caught on CCTV. That was nice.😐

[@stuartshadwell7249]

@@grmpEqweer if two people indeed tried to set fire to an apartment thats not good, but not representative of the whole movement and a far cry from the destruction by antifa openly endorsed by left-liberals in 2020

[@LukeMcGuireoides]

This man has a powerful message. Everyone on the left, even the libtards, needs to hear this. This is why the indignation and moral outrage of conservative voters, in the US, has been co opted by the far right.

[@mikecompton5418]

Achieving a socialist state through unionization is a paradox. In order for the vast majority of the public to organize and force socialism on the capitalist state there has to be sufficient hardship on the public for motivation, unions improve the workplace and working-class economic conditions when successful therefore eliminating the source of motivation. We have a perfect example of this, the western capitalist labor movement of North America and western Europe. The labor movement never resulted in a socialist state of which they resided in simply because the labor movement was successful enough to give to working-class something they were unwilling to risk their new improved status quo. We have to organize to codify the law to go beyond what unions have done by guaranteeing employment and establishing public institutions to provide the basics of dignified human life. We have the MOST excellent argument against capitalism, that argument is that capitalism has NEVER in its history given the majority of the population a life of dignity that we all deserve.

[@elysium619]

Not buyin' it, Chibbs. So what went wrong in Bessemer, AL.? Amazon handily defeated the union drive. H-a-n-d-i-l-y. And what could be a more stark choice for the individual worker in an Amazon warehouse?! We've all heard the horror stories of the treatment, monitoring, pay, performance expectations, living standards, etc. which they deal with every day. Is the subjective experience not enough incentive to vote union? Speaking with them as, "rational human beings" is obvious and understood as a given. However, Chibber's "solution" to speak to workers with a more, "individual rather than collective" approach does not inspire confidence. First of all, its hard to believe that professional union organizers made appeals to those workers in Marxian terms, e.g., "superstructure", "the base," "surplus labor value", "class struggle," "means of production," proletariat and bourgeoisie," etc. Secondly, I can't imagine what one would need to say (or even THAT one would have to explain) to an Amazon worker to convince them of their plight, beyond reiterating what they experience individually on a daily basis. How could they not be aware that their experience is exactly that of every other Amazon worker, i.e., the collective (Chibber's no-no)? How could the working conditions and outcomes of their experience as employees of Amazon not be manifestly evident to them?!! Individually! What does/can the organizer say at the "individual level" that the worker doesn't already understand subjectively which would inspire the "ah-ha!" moment for them? Who knows better the reality of prison life, the prisoner's lawyer or the prisoner himself? A union is established via a collective vote. A union is then a proper collective. It derives its power from being a collective and standing together as a collective. Not as atomized workers choking in individual yokes.

[@CaleBrooks]

You may need to listen to the video again because Chibber is saying the opposite of what you accuse him of saying. He’s saying that the regular experience of work in capitalism leads most people to pursue individual strategies to navigate and survive on a regular basis. What’s needed are collective solutions and that’s where organizers come in to try to make the case that collective action, although risky, is worth it. He also addressed Bessemer directly here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mWbFiWZnoLhmY9E

[@jbecn24]

@@CaleBrooks Good to see you in the comments section, Cale! #ClassUnity