Catherine Liu: What’s Wrong With the Left?

[@andrzejjarosawski29]

Catherine Liu is one of the most brilliant and, also,overlooked scholars on the left. I think the whole PMC scholarship is one of the key things that need to be studied rn in order to understand the current late capitalist societies. Thanks for bringing her on once again.

[@seannamei]

Oh yeah, you need what we need more of? Studying. We are just going to degree ourselves into the next phase.

[@andrzejjarosawski29]

@@seannamei studyception

[@Usammityduzntafraidofanythin]

I think late capitalism is going to go back to regular capitalism. All this finangling by the western govts is provoking a reaction from the right, which could further the course of capitalism for the next 100 years. Perhaps that was the intent all along?

[@brendanbeirne2]

@@seannamei by 'studied' he means 'paid attention to'

[@aggedyran]

This is the best analysis I've heard in years. I'm SO grateful that people are saying this out loud. Thank You, Thank You, THANK YOU.

[@Coromi1]

As a German, I agree with her description of the EU. In Germany, everything that is against the interest of the power elites makes them call you right winger and insinuating that you were a Nazi.

[@t.m.2415]

Just tell them that you are a communist, socialist or anarchist and the confusion should clear itself up.

[@l.w.paradis2108]

​@@t.m.2415 Remember when Ash Sarkar set Piers Morgan straight on that point? 😂

[@t.m.2415]

@@l.w.paradis2108 yep 😂

[@yoonski6510]

We, the people, demand more catherine liu.

[@eottoe2001]

She is a god.

[@Drewman88904]

I have been begging left wing friends to send me a link to someone with even half a brain in their camp, to give me hope that there was someone remaining on their side who wasn’t totally captured by midwit managerial mantras and decade old media studies tropes about injustice, etc…The algorithm was listening! What a pleasure to have stumbled across Catherine Liu. It has been great to watch/ listen to this and other talks as I’ve gone down her KZbin rabbit hole. I look forward to reading her book. I see her as a wonderful opportunity to wake up Liberal friends, who for fear of ever being labelled anything but a good Leftist, have let themselves be spoon fed neo-liberal social Justice matamodern gobbledegook for the past ten years, to the point they admit not to know how or what to think or say anymore. Thank you for this talk and such a sober honest discussion. For the record (if not obvious) I’m not a Marxist. But atleast traditional Marxist properly identify where the fight is. And while the tactics and execution haven’t had a great track record - Class lines is at least the proper battleground.

[@B_Estes_Undegöetz]

If you’re not a Marxist then you’ve missed the point of this discussion. A return to materialist economic definitions of the “the left” is not a return to “traditional values”. It’s an effort to enlarge the consciousness of the working class to include all of them, to remind them all of their shared economic interests that are NOT those of the capitalist, ownership, ruling class. “Values” and “culture” are irrelevant; shared economic class interest underlies all of the current culture war … which has been cynically commodified by the ruling class to make it profit the ruling class no matter which “side” of the culture war you wind up on. Ultimately it’s fundamentally anti-capitalist and revolutionary in its intent. Not reformist … revolutionary. So … hope we’re all ok with that. This culture war nonsense has been troubling the left for forty years… I was there at the beginning of it in the 1980s. Time to be done with it …

[@addammadd]

Probably the most sincere commentary on this academic marketeer comes in the form of a right-wing genuflection in the direction of a corporation’s algorithm. I am genuinely grateful for your take, as it summarizes Liu’s career beautifully.

[@Xanaduum]

​@@B_Estes_Undegöetz "their" is worrying. It should be "us" and "we", unfortunately most of the time we have middle class socialists telling us what we should be doing and controlling the narrative to protect themselves.

[@D3PR3C4T0R]

@@B_Estes_Undegöetz Nothing about what your soliloquy is a response to the comment in question. Get a blog.

[@65j20e58w35]

Wow, this needed to be said. Catherine is brilliant!

[@TiagoMorbusSa]

The problem is the context. It's true that publicly advocating for radical ideas when even the barest of minimums doesn't get passed into law is absolutely counter productive in a electoral race. But it's also true that advocating for radical ideas is not the reason why the barest of minimums doesn't get passed into law in the first place.

[@ujjalshill6442]

What's brahmin

[@DEWwords]

@@ujjalshill6442 , class capture. PMC. = Brahmin.

[@DEWwords]

@@TiagoMorbusSa , like --- what? What's "radical"? ( And why should anybody even care?)

[@TiagoMorbusSa]

@@DEWwords That's, like, what they talk about in the video?

[@hollywoodartchick]

I love hearing Catherine Liu's take on elitism in the (so-called) Left.

[@kushluk777]

The ever-based Catherine Liu, we would do well to cut out the politically correct shit and get to materialist fundamentals.

[@landdownunderful]

Had to buy Virtue Hoarders after seeing Catherine on last time, excited to check this out

[@etienne2315]

It is a great little book i think a must read for any serious leftist or socialist.

[@DialecticDave]

Absolutely LOVE it whenever Catharine is a contributor! The Jacobin Show really is a breath of fresh air and a source I routinely direct people to for an accessible Marxist perspective. Jen and Ariella always offer an insightful analysis, while Cale is... well adorable, ergo the perfect combination

[@ZenBen_the_Elder]

“Be less like a graduate seminar and more like a sports team”

[@BradSamuelsPro]

This is my new favorite left wing podcast

[@anwiycti1585]

You mean left hemisphere only, 🧠？ 😂😂

[@mjleger]

Reiterating here the comment I posted on the members only version of this upload, Liu's use of the term "avant-garde" to critique the "Brahmin left" does disservice to that term, which has a long history on the left, and resorts to anti-elite populism. As leftism, it risks a socialist realist "tendency" approach to culture. Making a distinction between "the" avant gardes and the adjective "avant-garde" helps to clarify matters. The adjective "avant-garde" is used to describe almost anything that is, variously, innovative, novel, modern, postmodern, anti-normative, fashionable, etc. It makes no distinction, within culture, between what is satirical, ironic, countercultural or subcultural, for example, and potentially critical methods like collage, quotation, surrealism, estrangement, détournement, over-identification, etc. Liu's use of the adjective form also distorts radical class analysis and critique by conflating avant-gardism with petty-bourgeois ideology and ( postmodern ) academicism. The discussion produces a cultural parallel to the Center for Working-Class Politics study on 'Commonsense Solidarity,' reaching "down" to the masses in an ethnographic manner rather than leading with vision and programme. Marxism and socialism has never sought to deny society what is best and most radical in culture ( or in the theory of culture ), while also emphasizing education, access and democratization, not to mention popular pleasures and sports. The book Virtue Hoarders is much appreciated. I would add that the PMC is also given to "badass" "vice signalling." The point is that moralism cannot substitute for politics. Rather than giving guidelines on what kinds of culture to produce, the left could focus on the post-Fordist conditions of labour in the culture and knowledge industries, or social factory as some call it, which have worsened since the COVID pandemic. All the same, the critique of woke culture wars is much appreciated as is the acknowledgement of the class interests of those who, wittingly or unwittingly, advance them. Solidarity

[@santosd6065]

I love Catherine Liu

[@santosd6065]

@Halli Galli Agreed

[@davidfoust9767]

She is seriously so fun. Love her interviews.

[@Unclejamsarmy]

Fantastic interview, love Catherine Liu and appreciate the extended conversation. This is revolution podcast had a great horror movie episode with her, and on the topic of sports and the left they’re starting a sports show!

[@A_Box]

Yup: improving the day to day life conditions of the people should always be the number one priority. Listen to this lady, she is putting it in really nicely.

[@hollywoodartchick9740]

She's right on all points! Those who say "I am not political" are often bogged down in needs that no political entity is willing to address. How fair is it to expect a working mom with no access to child care or health care or affordable housing to care about woke agenda items or the culture war? When politicians do address the kitchen table issues, lots of people turn out, but those are NOT the people either party WANT to see, and those are not needs they want to meet.

[@ZenBen_the_Elder]

Catherine Lui’s prescription for the Left in 2022: 1:19:05 “Work out more. Get buffed. Play team sports”. Hell yes!

[@jelef001]

This is an incredible analysis. I see a lot of myself in the description of the Brahmin Left, except that I don’t have inherit wealth and I don’t sneer at the working class.

[@markcangila1613]

@Lisa Zeiger the sanctity of english isn't relevant to this lol - english is an inherently butchered language anyways lol. Language changes are good, just way way too overemphasized

[@markcangila1613]

@Lisa Zeiger attacking monosyllables is literally the BS used against working people. The people in the video would detest the idea

[@markcangila1613]

@Lisa Zeiger Who do you think is being excluded and shpuld be included? What words?

[@YaoEspirito]

@@markcangila1613 I just watched a (fantastic) Chris Hedges lecture. He's the best of the best. But in the comments someone was saying "I wish he wouldn't use all that flowery language and historical references. Just get the point across!" For me, I'm eternally thankful to have speakers who can marshal language and literary references to communicate nicely. Especially in a world hurtling towards "ikr. Its like im like totally...lmao. dude im out"

[@WastingTime1878]

You do know most of the brahmins in india are working class as well right? Or you just read some bs on tiktok and your entitled self came here to expose your pseudo intellectualism.

[@sarahjames5176]

I'm a working class person living in a low income neighborhood and do mutual aid work with homeless folks, and I do absolutely think defunding the police is a working class issue in some cities. The police department functions in Seattle as a debt collector, criminalizing poverty. I do its think it's more nuanced than simply defund, but here, the police clear almost no cases and the vast vast majority of arrests are for shoplifting. Most of SPD lives outside the city limits, hate the liberal elite that dominate the city and they take that anger out on homeless folks and working class people who are fighting to stay in their homes in a city that clearly doesn't give a single shit about working people.

[@sarahjames5176]

I think that Washington's tax code being a neoliberal tax Haven actually connects police violence to the etiquette of the Bahamas left, because working class people are forced to adapt in their workplaces, and not being able to adapt becomes a working class material issues here, especially since less $$ means more police violence.

[@50733Blabla1337]

I also highly disagree with the sentiment here regarding defund the police. The slogan is shit imo but its not about just taking funds from the police but allocating these funds. I lowkey find it dishonest to say "thats a thing for rich academics cause you dont know crime". Feels like fox news level analysis of the issue. There are numerous studies that show investing in social services, infrastructure etc. is way better than just overfunding police like crazy.

[@sarahjames5176]

@@50733Blabla1337 exactly, that's an analysis from someone who hasn't lived in a "high crime" area. My neighbors hate the cops, don't trust the cops, and won't call the cops even if they need help!

[@50733Blabla1337]

@@sarahjames5176 It shouldnt matter if you lived in high crime areas. We have the data for like... everything. This whole show feels more like an attempt to further divide the left than anything else, nobody that has any idea means defund the police literally outside of 300 insane people from twitter. We know social services and better opportunities work way better but she is hung up at taking money from overfunded police like, well, Fox and co :/

[@fredwelf8650]

People fear the police more than been robbed?

[@derekaitken]

I came here seeing people on twitter calling Catherine Liu crazy + mocking here. She is so insightful and profound here

[@Special_Agent_NSB]

Twitter is just so pointless.

[@B_Estes_Undegöetz]

She’s not crazy. She’s a for-real Marxist; an historical materialist and economic class analyst. That makes her unpopular with just about everybody in the U.S.A.

[@bUwUmer1260]

This is the most based leftist. Im a working class person who has made my life and supports my family via my careers in mfg industry. She speaks to me. I dont care about the idpol. I want to have my class issues acknowledged!

[@YaoEspirito]

"That mother, who can't buy formula for her baby, does not want to be called 'birthing person'".👍🏾

[@vinnym5607]

How does saying trans people aren't they gender they identify with going to help the working class afford formula? Guess what? It won't, but it'll make all right wingers feel good

[@rv706]

I think a right-leaning guy, or somebody who is a fan of the "intellectual dark web" or analogous internet pseudo-political movement, would feel _very_ confused watching this video. He would be like: "What?? But wasn't the Left all about political correctness and SJWs and gays and pronouns?? And the more postmodern Communist the more into SJW stuff??" *Brain: explodes*

[@Jyn868]

Political opinions that are more than a single step are too confusing for conservatives to understand

[@cs.0903]

To me woke isn't left at all it's hyperliberalism posing as leftist by using terms that sound radical but actually mean little to nothing

[@A_Box]

Nah, they just say that the left eats itself so any dissonance is just infighting and they have all reason to believe that the non-cringe discourse isn't just a minority of the "Left." Of course leaving aside the fact that much of the popular SJW stuff is just Liberalism and not actual Left.

[@markcangila1613]

Pronouns *are* valuable imo - but they need to come after real economic help. Even for trans people - we're worried about paying for healthcare and being mistreated by doctors who think all our issues is transness (the concept of trans broken arm syndrome: "oh your arm is broken because you fell really hard? Must be those hormones"). Also housing - lotta homeless trans people - and violence. Those come first

[@polybian_bicycle]

Well, much of the most vocal ppl who call them selves "left" are like that, though. So it's hardly the IDW guy's fault. I'd love it if this was the most influential portion of "the left", but unfortunately it just isn't. And yeah, I agree with Christina that the woke "left" isn't really left at all. Leftism for them is just a sexy aesthetic.

[@satyricon451]

My golly how right they are about the specialized, alienating language of brahmin elites. It was lingua franca while I was working on my Pol Sci PhD. In practice, it's like two doctors discussing a patient's symptoms in the trade language of medicine as if the patient isn't in the room. Similarly, I've watched brahmin elites discuss the factors of poverty as if the impoverished have nothing substantive or insightful to contribute. What can the impoverished possibly tell us about their preferences that multiple regression can't? Makes us come off like a bunch of dicks.

[@zhonguocha]

I’m a construction worker and two of us could have a conversation about your house in front of you that you wouldn’t understand. Every industry has specialized language.

[@tormunnvii3317]

To me, this “Brahmin Left”aligns really nicely with what Michael Albert calls the Coordinator Class, (Basically a third class, along with Working Class and Capitalist Class.)

[@sermon1984]

Do you all understand what a "Brahmin "mean

[@aaradhyarawat7589]

@@sermon1984 They're talking about hindus without a hindu. Is American Left any different from American Right? Intolerant wins, tolerant loose. Only Islam can defeat Left!

[@sermon1984]

@@aaradhyarawat7589 ok ok but why they are using the word Brahmin .

[@liberality]

Also known as the "Commisar class".

[@oliverdowning1543]

I think intersectionality can be good for politics. Specifically, when wielded correctly it builds our alliance by saying things like: "You can't talk about the oppression of women under patriarchy without talking about the heightened exploitation of women by capitalism through the pink tax and the gender wage gap" or "you can't discuss issues of race and immigration without also acknowledging the way different countries interact with the super-exploitative global capitalist system". It also gives things like "autistic women, girls and people of colour experience greater difficulty that white autistic men because they get diagnosed much less often" but that doesn't hurt our movement either it builds solidarity between groups that can be directed at the intersections with capitalism, of which there are many. Intersectionalism need not do away with class as the primary contradiction, it simply suggests that capitalism is not the only exploitative system in society. It actually grows out of things like the Marxist black civil rights movement of the 60's and the Marxist feminist movement by applying a specifically Marxist analysis to these other systems of oppression, treating them like class within the context of their own structures and then looking at how these systems, yes, build on each other at the individual level, but also reinforce and support each other at the structural level. We can talk about how racism destroys class solidarity by blaming immigrants for "driving down wages" when we should be focusing on exploitation and economics dictatorship and on how capitalism reinforces racism through ghettoisation, colonialism (and it's associated propaganda), red-lining etc... and thus look both at how attacking structural racism aids our own fight against capitalism and bring in those fighting structural racism into our fight against capitalism. I talked, obviously, about gender before but the same applies for disability, queerness etc. Intersectionality can often be used as a smoke screen to promote individualist politics and draw attention away from capitalism but when used correctly it integrates class deeply into a structuralist analysis of society that leaves people with a compelling reason to join us because we now have 10 new ways to show them that truly no-one is free and liberated until everyone is free and liberated. Yes, it means placing Kyriarchy and not Capitalism at the core of structural oppression within society but since a (if not the) principle component of Kyriarchy (since Kyriarchy is a composite system) is class, this does not detract from the need to agitate against Capitalism it only strengthens that compulsion by broadening its appeal. Edit: None of this is new either. The left has always been anti-colonial, for instance, this just allows us to tie colonialism to capitalism not just as an oppressive symptom of it that critics could argue can be abolished separately but a key ally and participant in capitalism. Similarly, the left has been incredible on women's rights, the USSR was pushing an agenda on women's rights as national policy in the 20's that wouldn't even enter western discourse as a radical fringe idea until 40 years later in the 60's. Marx's "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need" was a radical step towards disabled rights. Socialists and Communists are always at the forefront of universal liberation and when these ideas came to Western liberalism they came through the Marxist theory of the Frankfurt School and Foucault. What we need isn't a rejection of intersectionalism that not only rejects a great tool in our arsenal but narrows our focus to only those issues that can be explained purely in terms of class but an embracing of Intersectionalism to have a socialist anti-capitalist directed Intersectionalism. You used the example of US education debt and how you call it a class issue but the Brahmin "Left" have had success branding it a race issue due to the unequal distribution of debt. Intersectionalism let's us say it's both, it's a class issue first and foremost but one made worse for those with oppressed racialised identities; this places class as the primary concern and issue but acknowledges that there is more going on on top of that and, in doing so, brings into our movement those who may previously have been on the fence. It is a clear and natural extension of *Marxist* theory. Just because the capitalist class wants to co-opt our movement and ideas to de-radicalise them and draw focus from us doesn't mean we need to let them.

[@hrwise89]

Spot on IMHO, but that's too nuanced for their goal (which I'm pretty sure is just to pander to right-wing and centrist people who are tired of hearing people talk about race/sexuality/gender). I dunno, this channel's videos pop up on my feed from time to time and every single one of them is just complaining about DEI. Maybe those are just the popular ones and that's why they pop up, but it's literally all I see from them. And like for sure, that kind of thing can be and is abused by various power structures in the world. I'm on a DEI committee and my school and it's not that effective. But just saying "intersectionality is exhausting and bad for politics" is just lazy. Like from what I've seen, their engagement with marxism is just saying "I'm a marxist, so" before complaining about DEI again.

[@oliverdowning1543]

@@hrwise89 ah yes, the good ol' "I'm a Marxist so". Honestly, it worries me though, because they're not the only ones. Because this is increasingly the official policy of the far left's only representation in bourgeois electoral politics. Because if you look at places like Germany their "The Left" is being pushed out by the BSW whose social policy is on par with the AfD and they're not the only country to be going that way. With it we're seeing the abandonment of decades if not over a century of work in developing our activism and setting universal liberation back massively. I do get it. The most we hear from intersectionalism today is liberal intersectionalism which is hyper-individualist and really only does serve to break up existing solidarity structures without even seemingly wanting to be effective at activism but if we let the centre take Intersectionalism from us like that and just cede that ground we lose the fundamental core of what we are. And we abandon many of the people who need us most.

[@darksaint0124]

One thing I never understand about a certain kind of so called leftist is why do you go out of your way to erase boys and men. Seems counterproductive to have such a clear bias in your advocacy.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

Cope

[@oliverdowning1543]

@@chickenfishhybrid44 if that's the totality of your response to a readiness argument that clearly bothers you enough to merit a response then I would suggest you're projecting.

[@Goldun-nah]

Never heard from Catherine Liu before today. She really has it all down and hit the nail on the head. Will be looking forward to hearing more and more from her. I would just be ecstatic if BJG and Catherine Liu link up and talk.

[@brandy8995]

Her book on thr professional managerial class is really good. Short digestible read.

[@chaitux]

🤣"Birthing person" reminds me of the Key & Peele Sketch "P**sy on the Chainwax"🤣

[@videovoidtv]

This interview and discussion needs to be reaired every week for the next 52 weeks… minimum. Its common sense and it sells the left.

[@dexterabend8945]

HAHAH

[@AMRARDvermebrungruppe]

The Brahmin Left's mantra is that as long as an equal proportion of white men and women of colour are in inexorable grinding poverty, then it doesn't matter how large that proportion is.

[@basiliscornelius]

Huge Jacobin fan here, and a great admirer of Catherine Liu as well. However, I want to register, not so much a dissent as maybe a concern. Would really love to hear some thoughts on this because it's something that has been rattling in my head and I feel I've never seen it thoroughly addressed, although bits do get talked about, including in some fine threads here. So the "Brahmin" critique seems to me largely true, first off. I say this specifically as a member of a sometimes zeroed-in on identity group, being a gay man. In fact, part of what started me away from liberalism was noticing several years back how some people could get all maudlin and teary about gay rights but, if I might timidly mention my family's struggles with healthcare, housing, income, suddenly the tone would shift to a kind of "Hey, that's life. Sucks to be you." attitude. But this is one of the concerns I have with this talk. I'm gay but I'm a worker, and I care about both. Liu's point about liberal pseudo-progressives kind of fetishizing trans and non-binary issues right now is well-taken; when I was younger it was gay people. But I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea that "they," meaning the working class, "don't want that kind of thing." Most queer (using the term broadly) people are just part of the working class. Now I completely get that we're a minority, and we should accept being part of a majoritarian movement because, in the end, that's what's best for us, too. To be clear, that's what I think Liu and everyone in this talk really means but I think we should pay some attention to tone. There IS a reversal of the "Brahmin" situation that's possible, whereby someone is made to feel that their identity disqualifies them from being part of the left. Indeed, I've had people tell me that, despite cobbling together an income with no health insurance and spending several years in fear of eviction, I couldn't possibly "get" working people because I don't fit some sort of old-fashioned cultural stereotype. It can be a fine line, as someone below noted, between expecting people to put their cultural, sexual, etc. identities on the back burner as part of a broader workers' movement, which is a good thing, and disrespecting or dismissing those identities. I'm sure most of us get that but I feel it needs to be articulated a bit more clearly at times. Part of why is because, while Liu is right about a lot of people using these things to virtue shame and signal, we should remember others simply care a great deal about anti-racism, LGBT+ rights and etc. They don't have to be our opponents because the left also cares about these things, but in a way that's actually much more powerful because it's part of a universalist belief. But we shouldn't alienate people by seeming to sneer at legitimate concerns about bigotry. This might sound somewhat odd but I actually think Chapo Trap House tends to handle this quite effectively. To put it mildly, they don't watch their language or obsess over the "proper" ways of discussing things, but their utter contempt for bigotry is pretty clear. Speaking of language, again I feel some more nuance could help here. I agree, attacking the word "mother" is absurd, pointless, and borderline offensive. If someone individually wants to be called something different, that's fine but the word "mother" isn't, and shouldn't be, going anywhere. But language DOES shift over time. It used to be much more common, even for people sincerely opposed to bigotry, to be casually racist, sexist and homophobic in their language. That changed and, eventually, there was some pressure on that front. I don't think those kinds of shifts are anti-working class, in and of themselves. They certainly can be used that way but, again, I think that needs to be parsed and worked out so we're not just rolling our eyes at any kind of alteration in social awareness. As always, I'm deeply grateful to Jacobin for doing this work, and for everything I've learned from them. Really eager to hear thoughts here! Thanks in advance!

[@matthewwaterman917]

Excellent points

[@voxomnes9537]

Dr. Liu could stand to integrate intersectionality and internationalism in her materialist analysis and socialism, as she fails to understand how fragmented the working class is by bigotry (i.e secondary contradictions). Loved your comment, OP.

[@cameronmclennan942]

Great comment, really well articulated. 💛

[@cameronmclennan942]

@@voxomnes9537 yah, exactly!

[@ridethelightning76]

I think the Left's immediate task is to create conditions to overthrow capitalism. When a part of the Left gives more emphasis on issues that do not seek capitalism's overthrow but sidelines this task is a betrayal of the cause of the Left. It is much better to concentrate on material issues of the proletariat. By uniting the universal class, we can handle issues within the proletariat such as gender and race more effectively.

[@christophercotton7149]

Really great interview! Thank y'all!

[@hughrrrr]

My father was the first in his family to go to college and he despised working class, middle class and popular culture in general. He believed that you went into business if you were too stupid to go to college. Most of my older liberal friends also have this very open hostility to working class people and most of them were also the first generation to go to college. The people born in the 50s still have a very disproportionate power in democratic politics and I don't think that they live in the present.

[@theotron84]

I have to say that I strongly disagree with Liu about PBS, tbh. Sure, PBS NewsHour can be and "Amanpour and Co." can be insufferable, but Frontline and "American Experience" are extremely informative (and important) programs. For example, American Experience had a two part ( three or four hour) program about the history of the Eugenics movement in the United States and didn't shy away from mentioning how it had an impact on the development of Intelligence Testing. Another example, Frontline has compiled ( in my opinion) the definitive broadcast record on the financial service sector. Frontline has a youtube channel and I'd highly recommend anyone reading this comment view the multi-part special about the 2008 financial crisis and the standalone 2004 special about the credit card industry.

[@theotron84]

Second Note: Her comments about Asian Americans, UC admissions and the CA democratic party don't seem to be substantiated by much evidence, tbh.

[@UNDERDOG18UNDERDOG18]

Amanpour is unwatchable, way too performatively woke.

[@lunadyana3330]

Kamala Harris’s mom comes from the Brahmin class in India

[@johnmilligan4260]

Thanks for articulating what has seemed obvious to me for decades. I have never seen it addressed so directly before, this needs to be said.

[@gudolph]

This is great discussion that, to me, connects some unconsciously pronounced bits of gender roles in American television. Catherine Liu's point about working women as wanting to be an identified group in political discourse rings true when thinking of the strong "blue collar" mothers as seen on Roseanne, Cybill, or Grace Under Fire. These were all created and produced by Chuck Lorre, the guy who also made Big Bang Theory and Two and a Half Men, two sitcoms centered on nascent social roles, in one the mainstream nerd, the other single father figures and recovering alcoholics. Clearly, Lorre has spun the capitalist straw these social niches may represent, and finds success by appealing to the Brahmin Left of the 90s/00s, the "bohemian bourgeoisie" or "bo-bos." (I can't recall who coined this tongue-in-cheek term, but it perfectly encapsulates the hypocrisy of the affluent adopting the mores of the working class as conspicuous consumption). The sad effect of Lorre's watering down the roles of individuals to sitcom stereotypes is, obviously, sifting out the qualities of the people in those roles in the country. The so-called "flanderization" of such characters distills their defining traits to a few checkbox ticks. The conflicts that make the characters identifiable and relatable in the first place are written out in favor of the same tired tropes reinforcing "Normal™ ." Anyway, I see a lot of overlap in this and the effect of politicians using the controversial terms of the PMC.

[@TheLabecki]

I totally agree with what was said about the "language etiquette". A few years ago I was living in a rather blue collar (and mostly Caucasian) area of metro Vancouver and sometimes, while studying at a local Starbucks, I overheard some of the regulars discussing politics. Never did any of them say anything that indicated any kind of rejection that Canada both is and ought to be a multi-cultural nation, or that we need to scale down on immigration from non-Western nations. Never did I ever hear anything homophobic, or Islamophobic, or anti-Asian spoken from their lips. Being blue collar, however, they certainly used some old-fashion language that would arouse the righteous indignation of many of my old grad school classmates, who would respond with righteous indignation even though these locals would have said nothing contrary to the beliefs of those intellectuals.

[@markcangila1613]

Imo language change isn't bad, but it's the last thijg on the todo list. Help people get their needs, and care about them, and they'll be willing to change language

[@Special_Agent_NSB]

lol you gotta get out of coffee shops my friend. If you want real unvarnished racism you should hang around my local Elks lodge on karaoke night.

[@TheLabecki]

@@markcangila1613 I am okay with the language change, but I the proponents of the language change seem to be driven by tribalism rather than universalism.

[@pin65371]

One thing with blue collar is it can be stressful work. We dont want to be sitting there thinking "can I say this or not". There is nothing more annoying than some corporate person that accomplishes absolutely nothing telling us what we can and can not say. I also work with a lot of indigenous people and they hate when some HR person starts off their speech with the whole land acknowledgment thing and pronouns. This one girl I work with flipped out at one of the HR people one time for "wasting her time with all this bullshit". The HR lady tried to get that person written up and fired. Then she realized that girl literally lived on the treaty land that HR person was acknowledging. That HR person no longer works for the company. Not sure if she was laid off or quit because everyone would get mad whenever we had to get a speech. We also had one speech given about racism and the most stereotypical Indian (basically what you would see in a movie) and that person told the HR maybe they need to worry about the obvious racist issues that are happening at corporate and to leave the rest or us alone. Corporate really didnt like that but again the person calling them out lived on that land so they really could not be fired. I really appreciate we have a group of people protecting the rest of us from these "brahmin elites". They are also some of the funniest people you'll ever meet.

[@IshtarNike]

​@@pin65371you're mixing a lot of stuff in there. The land acknowledgement thing is clearly virtue signalling bullshit. By why are pronouns on the same level? And I've done both white collar and blue collar jobs. Both can be stressful. I don't think your job being stressful has anything to do with whether you have time to consider other people's feelings. The actual issue is what you described with the HR person and also the performative actions that don't help people. But using the language people prefer is not bad on its own.

[@thalesfelipevasconcelosdes7199]

My god, what a breath of fresh air! Thank you Jacobin, and thank you Dr. Liu, for helping us see out of our modern world Plato´s cave !

[@rhysjamais]

The winner of this episode is Catherine Liu's facial expressions.

[@andrewgardner3092]

She’s absolutely onto the essence of the problem! #moreplease!

[@johngroundmarch7073]

Why is she so based?

[@elihan9]

Maybe pitch Jacobin podcasts and interviews to the local public radio station?

[@awkwardturtle2842]

But isn’t that one of the domains of the Brahmin left?

[@elihan9]

@@awkwardturtle2842 More for pmc liberals. But also for regular people who need news. I listen to NWPB and that covers all of eastern washington. It comes out the Washington State University.

[@easytoassemble54321]

As someone from the UK, you are accidentally saying more about our own centrist/PMC class than our own political critiques are! Excellent teardown, and Jacobin have just earned a subscriber. As a born-again socialist (reformed from self-hating working class person, who thought aspiring to the Brahmin Left and cultural capital were the be all and end all) Liu's analysis crystalises how I've come to wake up, and realise how hollow and insidious the soft-liberal-left project actually is, and how it was never going to address my material circumstances. Soft Liberals have subsumed the identity of the Left, leaving many disaffected working class people to wrongly believe "the Left have abandoned the working class". They were always here for you. And they hate the liberal sham-progressivism just as much as you do.

[@danielnow728]

Catherine Liu is a rockstar!

[@stephenwallace8782]

Not that this makes me the most savvy Marxist, and people can poke holes in my suggestion here, but the first thing that came to mind, in laymen's imagining, was Great Gatsby, when I heard the story about Foucault's friend, closeting his working-class background

[@174Madridista]

Imagine railing on the bourgeouis left for their alienating language, and then introducing a new, alienating academic term to describe that left phenomenom. What is going on, man?

[@Tulkash01]

One definition does not a zeitgeist make…

[@JulianPerez-zv6os]

Using words is academic, obviously you are very intelligent

[@andrewteague114]

Yeah, same thing I couldn't help but think. Like, imagine a professor at a state school going on a podcast to promote socialism and talk about how there's this highly educated class of people who are fundamentally out of touch with what "the people" desire, and they aren't talking about themself. A distinction like "Brahmin Left" seems to me so useless when socialists can't even form a coherent political movement in America.

[@Tulkash01]

@@andrewteague114 A discussion on the reason why socialists can't (can't they?) build an effective political force in the USA could be enlightening...

[@andrewteague114]

@@Tulkash01 Yes, why don't people agree with socialists? Is it because of bourgeois indoctrination? Please, enlighten me as to why your group of elites would be so much better for me than the ones I already have. Explain to me why a poor person would rather not vote at all than vote for a socialist.

[@bradkohl6283]

They are extremely educated and professionals at gaslighting the public!

[@burritobronson2680]

Missed out on my man paul on this one, but Cale is just as cool. Jen always killing it with these interviews. Thank yall for creating a space for class politics.

[@TheBenjaca]

To Catherine, you can offer them the idea that everyone who gets a paycheck from a boss is a 'worker'. No matter what field they pursue, they can organize at work

[@lovesupreme81]

I love this conversation, and as a community organizer - though I know the audience for this dialogue is likely the PMC, is there a way to translate this into a clear analysis FOR practitioners on the ground to use in their own communities to organize around redistributive politics (or “governing power”)

[@jackoflava]

Apologies to Catherine Liu but the whole time she was speaking I kept thinking that she is also of the Brahmin Left. She's an educated professional and that automatically puts her in that category. Not saying she doesn't have good politics but she is fundamentally, materially disconnected from the working class through no fault of her own. And thats a problem.

[@xaviernogueira]

The difference with her is she is self-aware. It's sort of reminds me of when people said how can Bernie be a socialist. He's a millionaire but he's only a millionaire because he sold a book about socialism. It's a bit different. Versus someone who unknowingly protects their class interest, or purposefully does.

[@RPSartre01]

This is excellent actually - good job!

[@HairyBalsagna]

This was such a fun episode!

[@stud6414]

Brahmin left also known on the right as the cathedral

[@Xanaduum]

Reminds me of Mark Fisher's Exiting the Vampire Castle.

[@mikeprice8998]

I think maybe I'm a part of the Brahmin Left. Will be working on my ideology and learning more. Catherine is great enjoyed the show ty

[@ericbray4286]

I went through a covid infection this fall and had to walk 3 miles to a testing site and wait in line with automobiles on foot to get tested. This was in a major urban area with a democratic administration in control of both city and county government. The only help that I was offered was the testing being free. The health clinic I got to for hiv care kept me away for obvious reasons and there were no social services I could contact for food delivery while I isolated and yes I was vaccinated. The shame that I internalized through this whole process was amplified by the PMC media telling me I was a piece of crap for exposing myself to the disease. It reminded me of the right wing shame that came my way when I tested positive for HIV but this time it was coming from leftists.

[@beetdiggingcougar]

Those claiming to be on the left have been the absolute worst when it comes to Covid shaming. I'm sorry you dealt with that and hope you are doing better.

[@kenashcom7580]

@@beetdiggingcougar you may have missed his point. I don't read it that way. I think he is saying that more government resources should have been put behind transport, testing, and food supplies for the needy.

[@susanmiller7560]

I agree with you completely, and sympathize with your situation. I think that it's unfortunate that you have to defend yourself by pointing out that you're vaccinated. That shouldn't be necessary.

[@vinnym5607]

According to Catherine, if you could misgender trans people, it wouldn't have changed anything, but it might put a spring in your step, so...

[@Art-bk6vv]

​@@kenashcom7580 or just like to not stoke constant fear and ostracization in the minds of the average American. Like yeah it was scary at first, but the second we discovered it doesn't live on surfaces, there's no need for lockd0wns, just subsidize food & grocery delivery and the chance of transmission becomes negligible. That easy, and the economy wouldn't be about to explode right now. And don't keep people away from their grandparents, shiiii let them live with their kid for a minute. The entire thing was handled in the absolute worst way, and no amount of government overreach helped in any measurable sense. It was all because of preexisting conditions, that's why the rest of the world got less fucked up, because we have chemicals going into our bodies every single day

[@stephen_pfrimmer]

Thank you Catherine Liu. Thank you Jen Pan. Thank you Cale Brooks.

[@cameronwixcey9692]

As a Welshman I was perplexed when BLM started in the UK with hands up don't shoot back around 2011 (London riots/ Ferguson) to unarmed police

[@Kohanman]

yes the police managed to shoot the black Londoner mark duggan to death in August 2011 while they were unarmed. ignorant, and realistically speaking probably just a racist if you don't understand why BLM movement would have support in a country where the police bias against minorities has been empirically proven in a bunch of studies.

[@justanotherguy1794]

Q for Mr. Brooks: how are things/have things getting/have gotten BETTER?

[@johnnywatkins]

Can someone explain to me the difference between going into debt for years for your education and voluntary indentured servitude?

[@lawrencemckeon6802]

That’s a good question.

[@justgivemethetruth]

To grow the economy everything has to be monetized in such a way that a stream of cash goes up to the top ... education, health care, now libraries ... everything. So ... I don't think anyone can, so no.

[@andrewteague114]

What an incredibly cynical characterization. Voluntary indentured servitude to do what? Improve your stake in life/upward class mobility, which is borne out in statistics. The inherent point of education is self-improvement, which is not true of indentured servitude where the inherent point is performing oftentimes menial labor. Take a guess, which generation began the practice of assuming debt to be able to go to college? Boomers. Look up the Higher Education Act of 1965 and the establishment of Pell grants in 1972. Take a guess, which generation does everybody complain about having too much wealth? Boomers. What are we going to do next, start making a fuss about mandatory schooling actually being a form of slavery because kids are expected to show up even when they don't want to?

[@theory_underground]

29:00 the focus on language is one of etiquette designed to ostracize, alienate, and humiliate regular working people who are outside of the assumptions and discourse of the University elite.

[@alheno5423]

As a working class person I have to say that Socialism just does not appeal to me. All of the ideas that y’all are talking about appeal to me and you all seem very smart you’re getting it you’re getting what we go through and how the left and the right elitists have forgotten us. But what I like about someone like Trump or the Maga movement or conservatives is that they respect tradition they respect freedom and want to empower people to help themselves. Socialism, to me, always seems like you’re dependent on the government bureaucracy to collect everything and re-distribute it and then that process so much is lost to corruption greed in efficiency and management and then we have to beg for a little piece of it back. I don’t see any Socialism anywhere where people are prospering or people have homes and lawns and pools and Maybe A cabin to go stand on the weekends or a boat or some thing fun for a hobby. That to most people is the pinnacle of existence and just fine they don’t need any more than that that’s considered like totally making it. And if you work hard and save and make good decisions you used to be able to get to that in this country. Maybe send your kids to school plan for your retirement that type of thing a little travel. Can Socialism Give that to people? Because when I look at Socialism I imagine every little thing I do being controlled and managed by some hierarchy and living very meagerly without a sense of empowerment. Since you all seem like well meaning people I am hoping you can address that.

[@alheno5423]

By the way, Right now we are barely making it having to choose between food and medicine not able to fix her cars when they break down and unable to like take the cat to the vet or pay the co-pays for health assurance… can Socialism get us beyond survival and into a place where we can thrive and have fun and expand and enjoy ourselves and have those hobbies a little luxury etc.? Or Socialism just about giving everybody exactly what they need and then you’re just kind of stuck there and that redistribution takes away the incentive and the freedom to go beyond survival?

[@ProleCenter]

​@alheno5423 All those bad things are happening because of capitalism. You live in a capitalist system. All those good things you used to get, like better living standards, was because of socialism; because America and the West had to compete ideologically with socialism and ensure a higher standard of living and social benefits. They didn't want to, but they could well afford to do this because they had been plundering the world for hundreds of years at that point, but then they could point their finger at socialist countries and say "Ha! Socialism promises prosperity and a better life for the working class, but it's inefficient and can't deliver on its false promises." Socialism started in historically very poor, backward countries, and then once they went socialist, they were constantly invaded (the Soviet Union was invaded twice within 20 years, suffering 27 million deaths in WW2 and the loss of a third of their industrial capacity and infrastructure) and then they were sanctioned, sabotaged and subverted during the Cold War. Probably most everything you think you know about socialism comes from those very capitalists and their media. Socialist countries were flawed but did the best they could and ensured that everyone had a home, a job, guaranteed free of charge healthcare and education, and even subsidized transportation and cultural activities. Practically every family owned dachas in the Soviet Union, which were vacation homes in the countryside. Finally, despite what you've probably been told by capitalist propagandists, China is socialist and the world's largest economy and miles ahead of the US in terms of economic development and technology and standard/quality of living.

[@The.Ghost.of.Tom.Joad.]

Thank you Dr. Liu. For stating the obvious. I'm a straight white CIS male progressive DSA member with a college degree and master's work who marched in BLM rallies, and even I can get in "trouble" for saying things that AREN'T racist but run afoul contemporary "correct usage." For instance, I'll catch hell for saying "Latino" instead of "Latinx"... which I do BECAUSE I'm multi-cultural and speak Spanish. Knowing the basic Brahmin-Left "lingo," I can correct and/ or defend my position, but I imagine what my cashier or roofer thinks. We need to focus on the reality: poor, working, and middle-class white people have more in common with poor, working, and middle-class people of color (or LGBTQ people or migrants, etc) than they do with the billionaire Koch funding partners. We lefties need to leave this nonsense - albeit while making sure trans kids don't get bullied and racism is given its due - and focus on the ties that bind.

[@sustaingainz7856]

So refreshing to see someone on jacobin pushing back on open borders

[@cameronmclennan942]

Really appreciate the candid and forthright discussion. I know she only gave a summary of the political situation in France from the sources that interest her, but it was very simplistic and didn't do it service. Been living in France for 5 years and involved occasionally in local politics. Also, I will just never agree that ideas like intersectionality of bigotries and oppressions should be completely ignored because they're politically too hard and get used by malicious actors. The actors are malicious, they're gonna use every damn thing against us regardless. And Marxists calling out others for using insider language...ffs get just a smidgen of self awareness Catherine

[@pierrechildress8875]

Seconded. Her ahistorical (and non-racial) take on class injury is nonsense and does a disservice to understanding a critical factor in how we got here. Watering down that hard won fact to scrape a few votes fr a thoroughly bought out political system is some weak sh*t. And note to lefties everywhere, no one respects people who don't have the courage of their intellectual conviction.

[@TheKarlKarlThe]

There are so many things awful about this conversation but the fact that migrants and refugees don't factor into Catherine's definition of the working class might be the worst. The left is against economic nationalism because we know socialism must be an international project. Many working class people are generally against open borders because they don't want to compete for a scarcity of jobs against working class people from other countries. The solution isn't to double down on borders and economic nationalism but to present an internationalist vision of the left.

[@matthewkopp2391]

I would advise paying attention to right wing political pundits, because they generally cover international worker issues MORE than the pseudo-left. The best example was the trucker issue in Canada, but they also covered the farm protests in Europe. The do so, and then spin in it all in a right wing direction. But in a real way the right has a bit more solidarity with workers than the pseudo-left simply by having the news covered on the issues. Internationalism can be possible. But you don’t have internationalism without the conservative workers. And the oligarchy knows this, that’s why the divide discussed her exists. In the USA the history of labor of the 19th century is very interesting, because the German organizer were specifically not racist in their union admission, while their competitors would have racist exclusion in their unions. It divided the working class effectively in the late 19th century. Read Engels original Essay on the topic not just Lenin’s optimistic internationalism.

[@Laurencemardon]

Finally have time to listen to this ... sure to be a treat, I"m sure ... Liu is the cat's meow.

[@Laurencemardon]

Very valuable channel, btw ... like the gent who often reports on labour issues.

[@garretttedeman]

Truly fantastic discussion!

[@gregorybaillie2093]

What's wrong with "the Left" ? Nothing is wrong with "the Left", simply because there is no "Left" left.

[@Apostate1970]

There is. But it has absolutely no power or representation. And that includes none at The Jacobin-DSA.

[@awkwardturtle2842]

I love listening to people criticize elites by invoking Foucault … I’m sure this is all the language of the working class 🙄

[@emilianosintarias7337]

Liu too much substitutes annoyance at the cringeworthy-ness of the PMC for actual politics. For example, while the slogan "defund the police" is a loser, working class people get very interested in redirecting much of the police budget once anti-cop activists prove that it is typically stealing city money (and not doing a good job preventing crime).

[@darksaint0124]

Is it still a loser. I'm not so sure that it would fail as a slogan today since the cops have been getting increasingly worse over time. Just think of all the very public screwups that have happened since Uvalde?

[@MortVaanderwaal]

She hates the Brahmin left but uses the term Latinx 🤨

[@selwynr]

"Brahmin left" - polite way of saying shitlib. I prefer shitlib. It's not talking down to the working class. They get "shitlib". Piketty is pretty much a shitlib himself, no wonder he prefers the euphemism he coined.

[@Apostate1970]

Every single person talking in this video is self-describing. It's so ironic.

[@shravyaamin8346]

Why not the Islamist left....

[@IdrisAlbadufi]

Institutions and media where you can say I hear things that make sense to me, I want to engage in this kind of politics and I can find a community... YES

[@markpovell]

Thank you Catherine for shining a bright light into some otherwise very murky corner's.

[@suheilpinto6964]

Brahmin is a group of famalies in the Indian Hindu caste system, they are at the top of the cast structure and they are mostly Right Wing.

[@acquit]

I was interested in this important topic, and I read the comments which use the words "brilliant," "eloquent," "insightful," but none of what I heard seemed to match that description. It seemed to be a critique of the elites and a dressing down of how elite they are. I see a problem with that, because there is essentially no conceivable action plan to get the elites to be less elite, so what is the point?

[@collin5052]

Welcome to Jacobin, and most of the online Left. All problem, little to no solution.

[@philesq9595]

Excellent guest.

[@RanDStClair]

Catherine Liu is great! I could never vote for her but I can certainly listen to her and learn from her. I really appreciate her insight and intelligence. I would really love to hear how she thinks that giving government control of the means of production would be a good thing tough. Seriously, I bet she could make me think.

[@AlexKimTO]

Such an interesting conversation

[@jackjohnson2101]

This is one of the first times that I've heard someone on the left acknowledge the need to have immigration control.

[@rajarathnamprasannavinayag3204]

Are you guys talking about labour aristocracy. If not what is the difference between labour aristocracy and the Brahmin left.

[@JaredAllaway]

I love Catherine Liu, this is a great video!

[@elihan9]

Take the Orwell approach. Get out of lecture halls and go to people preaching the benefits of socialism. Keep pushing universal policies like "Medicare for All", garunteed housing, higher pay, stable pensions, free secondary school, job security, and a Green New Deal. Don't worry about metaphysical debates unless someone specifically asks for them. Appreciate and never assume different culture takes are lesser. A church congregation may have more social buy in than a political party. A bar can be a place where deep thoughts of the world are taking place. And trash tv, video games, books, music, and comics are just comfort food after spending all day in a meat grinder that is life. You're not obligated to like these but you have no right to disparage them. Have enough humility to admit when you are wrong and that you may, in the future, be at odds with the socialism you created; that is okay. You are the begining the future not the end of history.

[@pin65371]

The problem with promoting socialism in the US is there are millions of people that have fled "socialist" countries for "capitalist " US. My family was promised socialism and got gulags and executed family members instead. The so called socialists promoting this stuff in the US follow similar tactics as the Bolsheviks. I work with a lot of people that fled "socialist" countries and none of them want to go back. They work hard which pays for their home, gives them a good pension, pay keeps on going up as well since people in the trades are in demand and have job security as well since they picked a job that was in high demand.

[@UNDERDOG18UNDERDOG18]

@@pin65371mom’s family came from Poland. Agree 100%. Socialism is not the way! I can’t afford to subsidize everyone else. In practice, socialism equals politicians robbing workers. We also have too many welfare queens. Stage 4 cancer is one thing, but no one should get 30 years of benefits for anxiety or alcoholism. No one is more anxious than those of us who must work.

[@ConanDuke]

1:19 "What can we do to be better leftists?" Outreach to working class autodidacts who want to participate in the conversation, but who are structurally, culturally, or materially alienated from the convo. In other words: Address this 'Brahmin Left' issue by walking your talk. Right now, Jacobin seems to be the living embodiment of the very phenomenon that this video critiques.

[@sustaingainz7856]

Catherine Liu and Michelle pan is the crossover we’ve all been waiting for

[@ProleCenter]

PMC = petty bourgeois. We don't need a new word to confuse or obfuscate.

[@Xanaduum]

The middle class in general is the pettie-bourgoise, I'm sorry if that includes you, but that's how it is.

[@evgeny9965]

How can anyone claim that people coming out of our colleges now are highly educated . Yes, they are usually highly specialized if indeed they have any marketable skills. Culturally many are Cretans and most have ceased reading in any deep capacity and indeed many don’t really read anything but periodicals affirming their opinions.

[@jossaha]

James Burnham - The Managerial Revolution" - nothing new here. The Democrats are not left - problem solved.

[@ladymorwendaebrethil-feani4031]

I disagree with the analyzes I've seen on this topic for one important factor: other than the United States with its privatizing university model, most Western countries are greatly increasing the number of people with higher education. In some European countries, the rate is already close to 50% among young people, while among older people it is still around 30-35% (numbers similar to the United States). In Latin America we are also seeing a huge increase, with numbers moving out of the single digit or tenth place and jumping to around 20%. Outside the United States there is a great process of democratization of higher education, which in the past was seen as a guarantee of ascending to the middle class, but which has ceased to be, as competition has increased. And even in the United States, where the percentage has not increased, recent graduates are extremely indebted and cannot get good jobs. In addition to the traditional awareness-raising that universities promote, the frustration of having a degree and not achieving social advancement - and knowing that the reason is capitalism - is the big reason behind not only the faithful vote of voters with higher education on the left as it is also the big reason behind the millennial generation's radicalization to the left. If the left reads by this key instead of considering that "voters with higher education = elite" (in Europe the average of people who have it is 40%. Is the elite 40% or 1%. In Argentina and in Uruguay, universities are free and universal for anyone who wants to enroll. This "higher education = elite" argument sounds a lot like the anti-intellectual ravings of the right), the left can understand how it can win. And the left may win by fighting to increase the number of people with higher education, to create a working class with a diploma that will undoubtedly be more powerful than its uneducated version. In the past anarchists and socialists strove to make workers literate. Today we need to strive for the universalization of higher education - public and free. So I have a feeling that the problem is not with a left with a bachelor's degree, but with an academic left that focuses only on cultural issues and leaves the economic issue aside - and this has more to do with professors who had their academic education in the 1990s and 2000, when the economic issue disappeared from public debate due to neoliberal hegemony... but now the economic debate has once again become unavoidable.

[@Earwaxfire909]

Can you make a list of solutions that we need to push for?

[@Thomas_H_Sears]

Those who argued that Bernie should come out with the proper policy-position confuse me. A guy comes along and is worshiped and held as superior for his forthright advocacy of realistic directions to solutions for universal problems, and then tell him what he should say and think.

[@dustylamborghini]

I could listen to Catherine talk _for-EVER_ (!!!) Absolute cathartic euphoria! "Marry me?"

[@Wesaar10]

I worked with several spanish speakers at my last job, guys from Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, and Columbia. Not a single one of them even used the term latino or hispanic, they would just say "spanish people". I can't imagine the looks on their faces if I called them "latinx", lol. The left needs to be careful not to let semantic dogmatism get in the way of building support amongst the working class. It's fodder for the right to disuade people from focusing on their economic interests. Plus, it is simply ridiculous.

[@thatsbougie]

We actually do have childcare at the St. Louis DSA meetings. Before COVID, I mean.

[@michaelneal900]

I have an overlapping category I call "laboratory grown people." Very much Brahmin lefts who went to private schools most their lives and the exclusive universities and then are employed in government and the national media etc.

[@jakecarlo9950]

👍 Thank you.

[@lucasjose4541]

wait.. Brahmin left is not bascially coined by Piketty. It is used by Bahujan movement in India to show the duality of left, as in they will conservative when it comes to their privelege coming from their caste.