The Central Line's Unbuilt Express Route

Before the Elizabeth Line, there was...

[@googlesucks6029]

Born too late to explore the world, born to early to explore the galaxy, born just in time to commute on the Central line express route (Elizabeth line).

[@rakshithv6199]

❤

[@southcalder]

The best aspect of the New York Subway is its use of express lines, both in Manhattan and at some of the outer edges. In some places those express lines even share platforms with stopping services. Allowing you to make a last minute dash across to the express. I guess that’s one of the luxuries of a “cut and cover” tunnel being built under very wide surface streets (hence why the express lines tend to peter out the further south they go towards downtown, where the grid ends). But imagine how the Tube could have been if a third tunnel had been built on the deep lines, with a peak direction express service. It also would have provided the capacity to allow 24hr running and keep up with maintenance, which is why NY can run 24hr.

[@DarrylAdams]

There seems a depressing lack of Charles Yerkes

[@prismaticmarcus]

SKOL!

[@johng5474]

At least he got things done.

[@TheDriller-Killer]

@DarrylAdams Don't know about you, but I'm getting withdrawal symptoms 😂😂😂

[@6yjjk]

The 'tache with the cash...

[@TheDriller-Killer]

@@6yjjk 😂😂😂

[@ThatKingneptune]

7:16 that 'yeah' was perfectly timed

[@robertewalt7789]

NYC subways were originally built in 1904 with four tracks, two tracks for express and local. Some other lines have three tracks, express in the direction of rush hour.

[@yorktown99]

A notable aspect of the New York City Subway is that the express services are not merely duplications of existing lines. The express & local tracks share the same tunnels (usually) or are routed along 4-track elevated viaducts. Stations are remarkably simple: local stations have two side platforms while express trains run through uninterrupted; at larger stations, a pair of island platforms sit between the two pairs of tracks and allow for direct cross-platform transfers.

[@kennethfrench6235]

Ken french90 In 1954 Iworking for the GPO Long Distance ,I spent some 3 months in the Trunk Zone Kingsway or TZK as it was known , employed on the test desk in the Chancery Lane tunnel . Entrance was in Furnival St. access being made by , as I recall , an old gate type lift . This descended some 80 foot below the station . An emergency escape (route 139) the number of steps ? emerged on the West bound platform of Chancery Lane tube ,behind 2 steel doors .Still there I believe ,but plastered with posters .

[@MarkUKInsects]

So the same as fifteen Floors

[@TheKelvincurrie]

I worked there in the 70s. The entrance then being in Holborn

[@md-ps2hx]

Fascinating channel with so much information I never knew I errrrr? ... never knew! All on my own doorstep.

[@paulbaker916]

Another well presented and well researched article interspersed with a light dusting of subtle sarcasm. What's not to like.

[@paulusthewoodgnome]

Rather amazingly, in that aerial shot of the Isle of Dogs, I can make out the block of flats where I live. 🛩️💣😬

[@grandaddyoe1434]

I can see those places where I lved too. Interestingly, the nearest LPTB line to central London was way out at Mile End (ELR doesn't count). Now there are three lines !

[@teecefamilykent]

Did not know this, Brilliant video sir.

[@tantaf123]

Busy day today. So I’m 7 hours late, but I’ll always have time to watch the newest Jago video :)

[@TonyBanks21]

Central Line to Ilford ?? That was something that I would’ve liked to happen-we do have a sort of ‘Central Line Ilford route’,as Redbridge,Gants Hill,Newbury Park,Barkingside,Fairlop and Hainault are sub-districts of Ilford !!

[@paulhaynes8045]

When I lived in Collier Row (north Romford), there was always talk about how the CL was intended to/should have reached Collier Row, or how it might do so one day. Just another 4 miles under Eastern Avenue from Newbury Park would have done the trick...

[@RebMordechaiReviews]

@@paulhaynes8045 I was told that there was a plan to build a tube station at Claybury Broadway which would have joined up to Woodford/South Woodford

[@johna5635]

The mention of "West Ruislip" reminds me of a conversation I was having with a work colleague the other day about the over-proliferation of stations within the relatively small boundaries of Ruislip! I know that Acton has a North, South, East and West station - but what is the smallest area of London with the most stations named after it?

[@MrGreatplum]

Great stuff, Jago. And to think that the Mail and Express were wrong about something? Who’d have thought it? 😂

[@alastairmc]

As a journalist who worked for the Express for 32 years I can only agree!

[@aaronsmith9209]

It''s an interesting history here for sure but made me wonder if there's much of a story behind how we got the 2 "express" sections of tube we do have? The Metropolitan Line skips stations between Finchley Road and Wembley with the Jubilee Line covering intermediate stops. The Piccadilly Line runs fast between Hammersmith and Acton, with the District Line serving what is in between the two. This video just makes me wonder how this came about.

[@SirHeinzbond]

0:28 this is really a good example of overcrowding!!! thank you for not make an overcrowded Line more overcrowded just for the filming!

[@christtrockministeries5542]

Aggh Jago, this what yu probably never knew. This section upto Newbury park continued in a cutting without going underground to main-Line from Liverpool street, where train could go east or west, an even a man i knew as a child that worked on railway then, confirmed this. Also at Leyton there-was a connection, where trains could continue to Liverpool street, an old a to z street book i-had before, confirmed this. 5 to 6 pm gmt.

[@1fourcore]

Can still see the remnants of this cutting all the bridges are still there from ward Road to where plesseys used to be .but all back filled under the bridges .

[@General_Confusion]

Jago does a video about overcrowding on the tube, and then shows us 8 mins and 26 seconds of clips with a distinct absence of crowding or for that manner hardly any passengers at all.

[@samuelfellows6923]

One of the shots was recorded in the covid-19 pandemic ☣️, as all the passengers had “masked” themselves 😠, and would be “socially-distanced” =

[@grandaddyoe1434]

As he says in an overlay, recording at rush hours would only show people within six feet or so of him and nothing of the packed station. One has to have experienced it to know it.

[@6yjjk]

@@grandaddyoe1434 Indeed, Bank at 5pm is not something I care to experience again.

[@SteveReggie]

Showing us what the stations look like vs. showing us crowds makes a better video. And the planners of the NYC subway system were wise that nearly every line in Manhattan has express and local tracks. Almost nowhere was that done.

[@anthonyhope2589]

As a Brit living in America now, I have a question for you. All those disused stations had to have had maintenance on them through the years. Who paid for that? Were they ever used for any other temporary uses after the war, other than the telephone exchange you mentioned? My American wife loves your videos too 😂 and looks forward to them as much as I do.

[@JagoHazzard]

These days, TfL maintains them. They get used for loads of things - maybe there’s a video in it.

[@Arturino_Burachelini]

I've been thinking about longer trains with the same platforms. The former will be 2 cars longer and the front and trail cars will have no doors and be outside the platform (either with transverse seating or simply standing passenger "bags" for long-distance travels)...

[@Roland-pw5xj]

There are stations where the rear and/or front sets of doors remain locked due to short platforms. Cutty Sark on the DLR is one example.

[@Arturino_Burachelini]

@@Roland-pw5xj IDK how feasible this is for the Kyiv metro. And at the same time not to F up and open the door into a tunnel

[@PerCPH2200]

Yes.... the 1939 experiment of running 9-car trains on the northern line proved that it could, at least in theory work. It failed mainly for two reasons: Without passage through the cars (yes, there are emergency doors, but it comes with a £ 550+ fine - according to recent convictions - if used without an emergency situation), they had to devise more or less tricky schemes for at which stations the respectively front 2/last 2 cars were to stop. There were also numerous technical challenges with the trains to work in extended formations, and at the outbreak of WW2, there were no resources to continue, so it was dropped. If the "2024 Stock" indeed is also used for Central Line at a later stage, it COULD be possible to review it again. One important caveat is what consequences it may have for the signalling...

[@Arturino_Burachelini]

@@PerCPH2200 Well, if CBTC is absent, the signals need shifting places to accommodate for new lengths and breaking distances (I guess, there will be fewer signaling blocks for that matter)

[@laurencecox2657]

@@PerCPH2200 You would need a train design like the new S Stock Metropolitan line trains, where there is free access from one end of the train to the other. This came into service in 2012. I'm not sure how easy this would be for the deep Tube lines where the existing trains already nearly fit the tunnels. In principle, it is doable but the width of the connection between carriages would not be much wider than the existing doors.

[@bigaspidistra]

The capacity problem was alleviated to some degree by the solution of the deployment of longer trains. Until 1947 only six car trains could be run but afterwards eight, when lengthening of all platforms had been completed.

[@AndrewGruffudd]

Supposing they'd made a deep-level express circle line - you wouldn't have needed a large hadron collider... x

[@LeeSmith-cf1vo]

I've never really understood the logic of building the shelters in the places where the stations were _not_ to be. It seems to me that you have to create all these access points that would then later go unused, while if the shelter was at the station site, those access tunnels could become ... well ... access tunnels!

[@rainyfeathers9148]

'... certain official government departments' sounded so sinister🤭

[@dc477]

I would want to know more about the express routes for the Northern & bakerloo lines, please?

[@rupep2424]

I'm glad we got the Victoria & Elizabeth lines. But will there be a Charles (Crossrail2?) line..?

[@goodwood-rc4nx]

maybe but calls on the money to pay for it is short so could be one day

[@ianpatterson6552]

Digging under St Paul’s they would have ran into historic London from Romans to the Great Fire.

[@PsychicLord]

The Northern Line 'Non-Stop' service did use some of its 'own' track, take a look at Brent Cross station to see what remains.

[@neuralwarp]

The problem is the rail network is radial. It triples your journey time from York to Romford avoiding London.

[@wickiezulu]

Had it been possible earlier in history when there were plans for the Waterloo & City to share Central line track at Bank and Liverpool Street. Maybe parts of the unbuilt Central Line express route towards Stratford from Bank could have been better repurposed for W&C, before diverging to Hainault (or to Woodford due to same cars as Hainault-Woodford part) via Jubilee line inspired proposal to Ilford albeit to Newbury Park via underground restoration of former Ilford-Newbury Park link.

[@Andrewjg_89]

I don’t think that the Central Line would have a semi-fast service but what the Central Line could do with is to reinstate the line from Epping to Ongar. And to extend to Harlow as there were plans to extend the Central Line to Harlow but I don’t think it will happen.

[@juliansadler6263]

The Ongar line carries more people as a heritage railway than it ever did as part of the Underground. TfL definitely doesn't want it back.

[@PerCPH2200]

@@juliansadler6263 Yes... I have a memory they did attempt around 1990 with an all-day service to test the idea, but it was not successful. Of course, after the passing loops had all been lifted, running something like a 15/20-min interval service was impossible - when I look in old timetables, it appears even a 30-min interval would be difficult without using 'stepping back', as the journey time was some 13 minutes...

[@Andrewjg_89]

@@juliansadler6263Indeed

[@StevensPaul]

I wonder if the London Delegates were mugged while they were in NY. Maybe Charles Yerkes knew of the upcoming trip and phoned ahead and had "something" "arranged" for a more memorable experience 👀😮🤪😈(!).

[@DadgeCity]

(August doesn't rhyme with august.)

[@anthonyclayden4010]

The difference is which syllable gets the stress en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/august

[@mokadir1]

We desperately need district line express ❤❤

[@bungaIowbill]

Some of those proposed express lines do seem quite strange. I mean, the current travel time from Bank to Holborn is about 5 minutes, and even Bank to Marble Arch is like 12 minutes. Cutting those travel times in half does not seem a huge time-saver. I assume the intermediate stops added on more to the travel times back then compared to now?

[@Mikeb1001]

It’s more the idea of moving some of the footfall elsewhere

[@rangarutisersundar8843]

Probably less about time than capacity. You can only put so many trains per hour on the tracks, so adding express tunnels will about double the number of trains on that section

[@Jimyjames73]

Very good Jago - Cheerio 🙂🚂🚂🚂

[@kliximBRUH]

7:16 "yeah"

[@Anonymoususer_8823]

I don’t think that the Central Line needs an express line. What it needs is more upgrades to stations that are to be step-free and also to replace the 1992 Stock with new trains in the next decade. But overall the Central Line is just like any other tube line since the Elizabeth Line came into service in 2022.

[@SamSitar]

from what i have heard some tube lines are expresses for others. they are not labelled as such.

[@pleappleappleap]

It's too bad. Our express lines here in New York work very well indeed.

[@ds1868]

We have express lines for the Picc and Met lines. They work really well. Today we have the new Elizabeth line which runs parallel to the Central line. This is far better than anything you have in NYC.

[@pleappleappleap]

@@ds1868 If you say so. You are comparing the lines including the commuter lines in London and not including the commuter lines in New York. When I see you can do a cross-platform transfer between the Elizabeth Line and the Central Line, you can talk.

[@pleappleappleap]

Hurray for Sunday Jago videos!

[@john07973]

Good stuff 👍

[@MichaelCampin]

The plan for the Central to go to Ilford was never a serious consideration

[@Name-iq8te]

Gants Hill, Newbury Park etc are pretty much Ilford anyway

[@MichaelCampin]

@@Name-iq8te yes I played rugby for PLA for many years.

[@hotelmario510]

@@Name-iq8te i was gonna say - it DOES go to Ilford!

[@richardeyers322]

i wonder how many old dis-used tunnels are there under-ground.

[@stevebowden4878]

I remember the central line going g to Ongar - But Ilford??

[@catsandmusicandmorecats9146]

I was watching an old doc about London, first ep being about the Underground. One station they showed that had one of the classic designs was Arno's Grove. I'd never heard of Arno's Grove. Maybe I missed it - probably I did - but I don't think I've heard you mention it, Jago. It must be a boring place. Is it? :D

[@JagoHazzard]

I made a video on it a while back, it’s around here somewhere.

[@phwbooth]

Thanks, once again, to the Child of the Jago.

[@phwbooth]

Is 'Jago' really your surname, Mr J.?

[@phwbooth]

Sorry, got the names the wrong way round. I'm very, very, old....

[@Mark123Kengto]

nice vedio

[@kylefphk]

Every past time there was an excuse of not building Central Line Express. The latest excuse is just Lizzy Line.

[@GryphLane]

The Daily Heil and Excrement? Wrong? Surely not?!

[@apolloc.vermouth5672]

Yes, their commentary has always aged like mayonnaise, hasn't it?

[@EmyrDerfel]

​@@apolloc.vermouth5672no, fresh mayonnaise starts out good.

[@apolloc.vermouth5672]

@@EmyrDerfel I stand corrected.

[@robertwilloughby8050]

Well, all the Maily Dail "journalists" - I hope their mothers are disgusted. I hope they get busted. By the law. By the law.

[@wta1518]

@@EmyrDerfel mayonnaise is never good.

[@russiandrivers9986]

Imagine England actually getting something done

[@TalesOfWar]

Wait? The Daily Mail and Daily Express printed things that weren't accurate? Well I'll be! Jago, fetch my feinting couch old boy!

[@Carlos-im3hn]

Expressive !

[@RobCCTV]

I often use the Elizabeth line at rush hour in central London. ALREADY it is not uncommon to find that even that line gets too packed to board, and I have to wait for the next one or two trains to squeeze in. I'd like to think that this is being noticed by TfL and that somebody is considering what it will be like in 10 or 20 years time, as it seems ALL of trhe additional capacity that the Liz line offered has already been used up. An express central line service seems to be extremely sensible to me.

[@PimH]

It was confirmed in June that additional trains will be ordered for the Elizabeth line to enable increased frequencies. Also, you may have noticed that the platforms are currently longer than the length of the trains, so the individual trains can be lengthened too to increase capacity. Still some options to go!

[@6yjjk]

@@RobCCTV Induced demand. AKA, Build it and they will come.

[@chat4783]

For the term Underground it will be the Waterloo and city line unfortunately, however for a general term, it will be the DLR. Correct me if i'm wrong.

[@grandaddyoe1434]

DLR is 99.999% above ground. Take a trip on it and discover.

[@BusstterNutt]

Thank you, a great synopsis as alway.

[@stevebeal73]

In my BT career, I visited the "station enlargements", which were built, several times.

[@rednammoc]

6:43 for that sense of "august" (the adjective form), the pronunciation should place the stress on the second syllable, not the first.

[@johnm2012]

Not necessarily when it's said, as it was in this case, with sarcasm.

[@kidmohair8151]

i will certainly click the silly thumb-up thing, and to add insult to injury, leave a frivolous comment. so there. harrumph.

[@rogerakhan74]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@GOML27]

To your underground bunker ? Sounds a bit dodgy that 😂

[@tsungiraichiramba]

Always class jago, you should do another bus video

[@robinhillyard6187]

Any actual evidence of there being less crowding on the central line since the purple line was opened?

[@SmudgeThomas]

Express central line isn't a terrible idea....if you build it by making a huge box around the central line and first filling it with ice

[@bobcosmic]

All aboard the 12:00 train with Jago Hazzard

[@davejolaurencharlie]

The central line is still crowded

[@malcolmhumphries3284]

Wasn't some of the Northern Line express platform parts built and used for the Vic Stockwell? The Vic went across the original Stockwell Northern depot, the IMR is on the otherside of the Vic line. The southbound tunnel at Golders was used as headhunt for depot ect. probably another video.

[@ShedTV]

TfL soon realised it already had an express scheme, simply not stopping at crowded stations.

[@eattherich9215]

Too bad if you wanted to get off.

[@Mikeb1001]

@@eattherich9215Given that you’re never that far away, it wouldn’t be much of a problem to get off either one earlier or later and walk the difference

[@eattherich9215]

A train not stopping at a crowded station has a cumulative affect.

[@grandaddyoe1434]

@@eattherich9215 One morning in the 'noughties' a crowded rush-hour train I was on was evacuated at Southwark . . . . not a pretty sight . . . . I walked out and on to Waterloo!

[@grahamrowntree5573]

@@Mikeb1001 But to get off early, you would need to know the train wasn't going to stop at your station! Do the drivers announce it?

[@eattherich9215]

There seems to have been so many 'what might have beens' that were never realised.

[@Mikeb1001]

In such a sprawling, complicated city as London, it will always be the way. There are also many ‘what might have beens’ that ended up as ‘a version of happened’ in terms of old ideas being blended together

[@TabletSlater]

Hi jago hazzard, i watch your episodeS!

[@johnhood3172]

Why don’t they build it now.

[@jeremypreece870]

WHAT !!!! ???? The two great publications that are the Daily Mail and the Daily Express published something that was factually incorrect. Come off it Jago, you will be telling me next that the Tooth Fairy isn't real.

[@MichaelCampin]

Maybe a video a out Embanknent/ Charing Cross and its role or the Victoria Line and the spare tunnels.

[@grandaddyoe1434]

Liverpool Street to CharingX on the never-used Fleet Line tunnels might be a quick fix?

[@NickyMitchell85]

Isn’t this also an _EXPRESS_ ‘Tale From da Tube?’

[@Flange-lw9sp]

As a regular commuter on the Central line, from Epping to St Paul’s, I can’t actually say that the introduction of the Elizabeth Line has made much difference. I always assumed we would shed a higher number from the train at Stratford onto the Elizabeth line, but it seems we still take on more than we lose. I never really understand the concept of making the train run fast through the central part, when these are the stations that people actually want. I would however, be very happy if the Central Line replicated the Met Line and ran some semi fast services to Epping, perhaps stopping at Leytonstone, Woodford, Loughton, Debden and Epping ( overtaking the stopping services at Loughton as they can go into the middle platform).

[@GeorgeChoy]

good evening jago

[@mudchute4dlr]

express and metro doesnt go together tbh. what did you say? metropolitan line? oh, uh yeah judt ignore that

[@oc2phish07]

👍

[@seanbonella]

Sunday JH brilliant viewing

[@eastlancsesteem]

Money talks

[@paulhaynes8045]

I know you're not a fan of maps, but, all the same, your express CL map is weird because, although it looks like a LT underground map, it doesn't follow the rules! By LT map standards, the deviation would be shown leaving the main CL AFTER Marble Arch and rejoining BEFORE Liverpool Street, not as you show them. And MA and LS stations would be shown as single blobs. Ditto for your map of the revised plan. Standards, Jago, standards! Oh the irony of you playing Harry Beck in the Map Men video...

[@johnm2012]

The separate blobs at Marble Arch and Liverpool Street indicate separate platforms for the express and stopping services. At those locations the branches are treated as separate lines, like how the two branches of the Northern line are treated at Euston.

[@paulhaynes8045]

@@johnm2012 but they would still be shown as linked

[@johnm2012]

@@paulhaynes8045 Yes, there would be links between them and the other lines that interconnect but were omitted for clarity, but that's not what you were objecting to.

[@paulhaynes8045]

@@johnm2012 I wasn't "objecting" to anything! Just gently ribbing Jago.

[@JagoHazzard]

I don’t follow the rules. I’m a free spirit.

[@jamesjoyce5611]

great vid as always however..this "see you all again" grates. it would nice to meet you, but seeing me again is currently stretching it. howsabout "(you will) hear from me soon" - for those less sighted and to continue your quest for correctness

[@TabletSlater]

Episodes

[@doublea06]

7:09/7:10 (Etc)

[@joethebrowser2743]

👍🏻🇬🇧👀...

[@NickyMitchell85]

If there were a JAGO HAZZARD Line, *that* would have not just one *EXPRESS SERVICE,* but try 4️⃣ or 5️⃣. That would be JAGO-TASTIC.

[@randomidiot24563]

jago what underground line has the most stations that it dosent share with other lines