Jake Kaminski - I brought a Knock-Off Archery Riser and regret it - Response

[@ryanbon]

4:02 "My impression is that this is an old Hoyt riser." So, it is ok for a company to outright copy it? Junxing is literally, blatantly, outright stealing Hoyt's IP as a business model... they steal their font, their box, their sleeve, their components and their riser designs, and make a business out of that theft by copying them as close as they are able to (poorly). Jake bought a riser out of curiosity and made a PSA for archers. You go at Jake to support and go to bat for a company that does that? Why? Do you believe that is a good way to do business? Is that the kind of company you want to support and back, to attach your name and reputation to? You missed the point Jake brought up about the stickers... Jake mentioned that the marketing images Junxing uses are actual Hoyt risers with the HOYT stickers replaced by TBOW stickers, and showed how easy it was to replace it. Just FYI, that Junxing H8 "old Hoyt riser" you are referring to is the Hoyt Formula XI... it was being actively sold around the world as early as 3 months ago as of your posting of this video. It was recently replaced by the current Formula XD model that you show in this video which has also been copied and is being sold by Junxing as the Tbow H10. Junxing is also selling their Hoyt Xceed copy as the H7 if you were unaware. They also have carbon copies of Win&Win and now Border risers as well. You support all of that by with reality of owning a bow shop? While I understand 95% of your business is beginner archers... to me that still doesn't come close to justifying supporting Junxing IMO. Jake mentioned in his video, and you mentioned/showed in this one, DOZENS of budget risers from actual legit and honorable archery companies that came up with their own risers that you have the option to support instead.

[@simonhooper2458]

If you knew just how many big archery companies have straight up ripped off small companies and then sent them cease & desist notices knowing they stole the design and then have the audacity to respond with if you don't like it take us to court as their response, knowing full well they have the $ to bankrupt them in court costs, you would have much less sympathy for these companies. I buy authentic high end products because I am lucky enough to afford them but I also won't go out of my way to defend those companies after knowing what they have done to small manufacturers and will continue to do.

[@ryanbon]

@@simonhooper2458 how many exactly? Please provide a few specific examples of riser names from the past made by Hoyt or Win & Win along with the names of the direct small company stolen original risers so I can look them up to verify the validity of your comment... I am genuinely curious.

[@simonhooper2458]

@@ryanbon I am not just specifically talking about risers. This includes stabilisers, dampeners, fletching jigs, custom target pins etc. I won’t mention specific names out on a public space as it will just cause more issues between those parties involved for no good reason. The target pin one was the only one that was already public knowledge and it was a shame as I like that companies products.

[@wayofarrow]

IP doesn't last forever. From memory up to 25 year but depends on jurisdiction, and usually requires regular registration every few years. If don't renew IP registration it's up for grabs. It seems the Hoyts get copied the most. Maybe the OEM had a deal with Hoyt, after a few years they can sell it themselves, or perhaps it could have been the OEMs design and Hoyt just paid a licence for a few years.

[@ryanbon]

Ok I see what you mean @@simonhooper2458, while pretty anecdotal without a single example, even if I go ahead and, hypothetically, assume that all of these instances do exist and are many... these instances popping up from time to time over the years across the industry hardly changes my mind. What Junxing is doing is quite a bit different and far more egregious... they are not incorporating a design feature or mimicking a functionality characteristic of another product and bringing it in to their own designs like you assert these other companies have done... their actual, literal, entire business model is theft and stealing. So I guess we just agree to disagree based on our own individual ethical standards.

[@NUSensei]

The Legend anecdote was interesting to hear. I had a similar experience. I use and review their bags and quivers and had no problem. They uploaded my content onto their channel, I flagged it and they got struck. I got an angry email saying that I should have contacted them, that THEY sent ME the equipment for MY channel, etc. And I said yes, and I did my part of the deal and made genuine positive reviews, but they don't own my video. I said I was happy to make an arrangement to make content for their channel. Suffice to say, I haven't received any approaches from them since.

[@THEFALCON58]

Iam an archer, There shop owners (in it for money) and those in it for the frame and then the ones (help newbies don't see much of this )

[@davidfrazier9732]

Wow to see you comment is great I watch your channel too. I love how the you tube community sticks together.

[@jyeprice9382]

We appreciate what you do my gu

[@theamazinggoldfish8713]

You were an great inspiration to me when I started getting into archery, great to hear from you Nu. .....🏹🤠👍

[@-fazik-3713]

I can not wrap my head around this video. You made it just to ensure thet no one will call "because Jake said so", but it is ok that the riser will explode in someones face because the manufacturer added wrong limb-bolts? Crazy. 100% with Jake on this one. The bolt was not checked, it was a dangerous product as is, Jake rightfully addressed it.

[@stevewaite6461]

I agree, if it was a video on firearms with faulty bolts for example, would JK have been wrong for showing it?

[@-fazik-3713]

@@stevewaite6461 "honest" mistake...

[@bozzco1]

​@@stevewaite6461 No but you can not go off one persons review, all product have duds So you should not buy anything if you think that way. Steve did not say JK was wrong for showing it just that there may be a reason why Jake's one was a dud. I have a Tbow and been shooting it for 5 years and it been all good.

[@mrnice752]

The wrong sized limb bolt is bullshit. All modern Hoyt's, and fakes, use the same thread size (M12-1.25). The problem with the fakes is quality control, the cast aluminium is so soft the threads strip just looking at them. If the limb bolt isn't put in perfectly straight during assembly the thread is chewed up and every time you turn it they get weaker and wider. I stupidly bought the TBOW copy of the 19" Border Tempest to see if I liked the bar in front of the grip. I found the exact same thing as Jake. The thread on the bottom limb bolt was perfect, no movement in the bolt with only 2-3 threads engaged. The top limb bolt thread was destroyed just like Jakes, with massive wobble all the way to bottoming out. Very unsafe and shockingly bad QC that the riser was sold.

[@garymickus6412]

@@mrnice752My take from Jake’s video was the quality control from this company is very poor to allow an unsafe bow to be sold. In my opinion (I could be wrong) if this bow was produced by a US manufacturer he would be sued especially if the archer was injured shooting it.

[@VietTamLuu]

I think the point Jake was trying to make was that you shouldn't buy from a vendor who shows so little care that they would ship a riser with the wrong sized tiller bolts (sure it's a "minor" issue in that it could be easily remedied, but not so "minor" in that it poses a serious safety risk to the kind of consumer who may not know any better) or not bother to pack it properly for shipping. Jake wasn't saying people should shell out more money for the "genuine" article, but rather spend the same money on offerings from manufacturers and vendors who can be bothered to deliver a good, safe product.

[@garymickus6412]

Your points are correct. The manufacturer is responsible for the quality of their product absolutely. Jake pointed out the serious safety concerns about the loose tolerances of the tiller bolts which could result in the limb flying off and injuring the shooter. After viewing Jake’s video, when buying a riser I’m examining the riser carefully for defects especially the tiller bolts.

[@TracyPicabia]

But shouldn't the beginner consumer have the choice to buy junk and have a limb fly into their face? All about choice, no.? To be absolutely clear, that's sarcasm. Jake doesn't have a dog in this race. This joker does.

[@garymickus6412]

@@TracyPicabia I agree, the beginning archer “must take the good with the bad.

[@InFerrumVeritas]

The thing I think both Jake and Steven would agree with is that buying from an actual archery retailer rather than eBay, AliExpress, or Amazon is preferable. You know who to go to for warranty support if there is an issue, and there's someone actually vetting the products available. Granted, some shops are significantly better to work with than others.

[@garymickus6412]

I agree. Given that poor quality control is unfortunately a common problem in the archery industry, the retailer must carefully inspect the items before sale for safety and other defects.

[@kurtmeister8308]

Jake got a really bad bow riser and warned the public. seems like a reasonable response from a fellow archer.

[@Chiefshadow4]

And in his video he was too much of a chump to say what the riser is a copy of.

[@petrokemikal]

Yeah but he went all out and flamed the Manufacturer as if everything they make is crap.. He failed to think of it as a singular quality control issue.. Theres plenty of folks that have returned Hoyt/ Win n Win bows with quality control issues..

[@ninpo1500]

​@petrokemikal it's a MAJOR quality control issue that can result in serious bodily harm. Zero reason to downplay it.

[@NUSensei]

I really enjoyed the grounded talk about running a shop. There's so much that an individual will miss because they're not working with the sheer numbers of bows and sales. I might get _one_ sample. It's probably a good one. On a very rare occasion it might have a fault. But the reality is that the one sample I have isn't representative of the product - or of consumer demand. I don't do a lot of exhaustive testing for products and decline to do things like speed tests and limb comparisons because the average consumer doesn't know or care. My reflections and recommendations, both online and in real life, come down to the basic trifecta: look, feel, and budget.

[@ajack6521]

Oh my god, nusensei is here. You've been a great figure in the archery community 👍👍

[@alexmcdonald3493]

How about the safety issues raised, rethink your approach

[@lordcarnorjax8599]

Steve I think you've missed a lot of what Jake was criticising. The crushed box wasn't a criticism of the box itself but how the seller packaged and shipped the order. That box is really should ship within another box. Weighing a bunch of other risers to compare to the TBow H8 riser doesn't really achieve much if you're not comparing it directly to Hoyt Formula Xi weight which the H8 is a copy of. Jake felt that his H8 felt lighter than a Formula Xi as he had used them in the past. Everyone agrees that the tiller bolt he got was bad. Was it the wrong size or the tapping on the riser the wrong size? Don't know as Jake didn't measure it. BUT it does allude to very poor quality control at the manufacturer if they allowed a bow to ship with a tiller bolt that you could wiggle with your hand straight out of the box. The riser is advertised as cast, if they missed a simple QC issue such as the wrong size tiller bolt what metallurgical issues could the riser have?

[@THEFALCON58]

I saw Jake youtube on this riser, You say wrong lim bolts looking back at the video/ the lim bolt hole was oval shape on the riser. ?

[@SlurpeeTime]

I’m really happy at how well you are doing after heart surgery. I wanted to say that. You’re a great archery resource.

[@thehadfieldparadox]

I think the general thought is that quality control on these bows are not as tight as the more reputable brands. the acceptable bell curve for error is much wider so more defective bows will slip through the net.

[@elobiretv]

His point on limb bolts is still valid. Some inexperienced archer is going to buy that bow online and shoot it with the wrong limb bolts and it will break. If they don't care enough to check the bow they sent to Jake is correct, I doubt if the rest of the bow is very well made.

[@simonhooper2458]

Which is why Steve advised people to buy though a shop that will check and set up the bow

[@parentalguidancerecommended251]

For starters, Jakes knowledge and experience far exceeds yours and is an unbiased opinion as an Archer not a salesperson/bussiness owner, so to say someone is wrong from your stand point without doing your own indepth reveiw of the claims your refuting is just ignorant. Jake addressed alot of your points and more about it being "identical" you are clearly rushing through, glossing over it and not actually taking any measurements to support your claims of them being "identical". Jake did, and as a result you clearly just come across like a salesman trying to save face and retain sales.

[@blackspeed69007]

For Steve, the only thing that matters is the colours. If it's the same colour, it must be the same bow...

[@Chiefshadow4]

Do you know Jake and Steven personally to make that statement?

[@dubi127]

@@Chiefshadow4ask yourself, who has more to lose on this one? If it is a shitty replica as Jake said and should be avoided like a plague, who is going to lose sales with pretty lucrative profit margins? Also i dont think Jake said what he said to damage archery shops, but to warn potential buyers...

[@NicholasANappiNick]

Steve has been shooting before Jake was born just a fact🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@parentalguidancerecommended251]

@@NicholasANappiNick your comment doesn't make sense in this context. possibly he has but its irrelevant, he hasn't come anywhere near Jake's accomplishments or talent within the sport. Let alone being trained by arguably the best Archery coach in history.

[@funkytruckermarkstre]

I shot a Hoyt Dorado over the weekend, the owner of the bow is the guy who owns my local range, he bought a Tbow like you have there just to see what it's like. To be honest it's not that bad. It is a little twangy but with some harmonic dampening it quietens down to something rather respectable. The grip on the Dorado is to die for but the Tbow grip is too wide, they sell an alternative wooden grip for it which he has but it's still a little too wide in the palm area. I was shooting them both barebow on a 3d course and as far as stability goes there's nothing between them. I'd say the Tbow is a great gateway into archery, cheap and does what it's designed to do.

[@paulegerton2012]

You are very clear that you feel no responsibility for what you sell and that selling is what really matters to you, which is your choice. The truth however is you do and should have a responsibility for what you sell, i have followed your channel for 3 years, this is the first time you have really disappointed me (polite version of my feelings), as I have just unsubscribed it will also be the last time I am disappointed in your views

[@jobagoat]

same.

[@gunterderwein6926]

You spoke from my heart with this video. That's how the world is. It's nice that there are people like you. Greetings from Austria.

[@sdarwkcabogtnod]

Sorry, I don' think you have a leg to stand on here. Thats a casting vs a CNC machines part. No comparison other than the 100% stolen shape.

[@michaelpoplawski3246]

😂 "He was a French guy. Really arrogant." I have yet to meet a French person who WASN'T arrogant.

[@B1Rl3Y]

Sorry mate, but you are wrong on this one. There really is no defence for knock off bows. I understand not everyone can afford the top of the line stuff, but there is plenty of good budget equipment on the market without supporting Chinese IP theft and poor quality control. You even stated in this video they have sent you bows with the wrong tiller bolt in the past. Thats a massive issue and shows they have no idea about what they are doing and are not taking the time to ensure the safety of the product. The fact you have not seen anyone shooting the Hoyt that riser was based on does not justify selling knockoffs, nor does "well they will just buy it from aliexpress" because as you literally state in this video beginners walk into a shop and buy what they like the look of, they are not going to go seek them out on the internet. Trying to hand wave away dodgy business practices such as stocking dangerous poorly made products as "the consumer needs to inform themselves about what they are buying" is just poor form. Not all the companies they rip off are as big as hoyt either, as demonstrated by your review of the "tbow storm" a few months ago a blatant rip off of the Border tempest a bow made by a small UK company. These bows are not something anyone who says they care about the sport should be supporting.

[@barrybkopicz2845]

Well said. 👍

[@ParabolicBox]

Yes, well said.

[@simonhooper2458]

He stated that other brands had done the same thing regarding incorrect bolts, not this brand.

[@barrybkopicz2845]

@@simonhooper2458 Steven wrongfully assumed it was the tiller bolts and Jake corrected him that it was the bored hole that was the problem. Even though Steven was corrected on the issue (comments on Jake's original video) he still falsely continued to say it was the tiller bolts.

[@hurpaderpp]

Yea we shouldnt support everyone being able to afford to enter this sport. We need to protect 'intellectual property' and western countries profiting 5000x off something that costs 40$ to manufacture.

[@InFerrumVeritas]

I'm all for cheap equipment. I know you have a vendetta against Hoyt/Easton. Carrying direct copies, literally molded and cast from the originals is pretty unethical. I'd encourage other manufacturers ripped off by TBow, like W&W, to refuse to do business with you.

[@chanedowns3134]

Never care about color I paint them how I want. I go by length and how it fits my hand and if it is LH . Comfort and line of sight is more important. My current I have been using for the last few years is a Junxing, To Point Trigon and a Predator for Bowfishing. I have had very expensive Bows and go back to more value Bows 🤷‍♂. I would by the riser if it fit good

[@mumurioste790]

Have you had much dealings with the Buck Trail Nobleton Traditional Phenolic ILF Riser if so what are your thoughts

[@timh9246]

There's nothing wrong with cheap risers, and there is certainly a need and large market for them. There are plenty of budget risers out there to sell that aren't copies of another company's product. It is hardly morally acceptable for a company to make direct copies from other dedicated archery manufacturers, and gain leverage from the development costs, marketing, reputation and other factors from both large and small companies like Hoyt and Border. There are a number of points that don't seem logical in this video, like using a different model of Hoyt riser (looks like an XD perhaps) to compare with the TBow copy of an Xi. Also, what relevance does the fact that one person has never seen a particular item have to the acceptability of breaching valid patent or copyright? The defence of selling an ethically dubious product by saying that if they don't sell it, then someone else will, seems like an abdication of reasonable ethical standards. I suspect that there are sellers of many potentially harmful physical and chemical products who make the same justification.

[@ColoursOfDan02]

I returned a H7 (xceed) the limb bolt had a lot of play and also didn't lock. Wasn't as insane as Jakes but it was enough I didn't feel comfortable shooting it with the amount of play and having no lock meant it would move and effect my tiller. That put me off since it was a fairly easy QC check.

[@chemicalmisery]

I refuse to believe that as a shop owner, you've never seen a Formula XI before...

[@mr5miffy]

I don't believe that anybody into target archery has never seen a Formula X or Xi. I know of 6 in the small club I shoot at.

[@FrancSchiphorst]

It's in the 2020 and 2021 product guides and there is the 2022 Brady Ellison Signature Series

[@BillSuxtobegaza]

Who really gives a shit?

[@cyzam]

I tried one of those tbow satori clones and the limb bolts were wobbling almost half an inch back and forward. Threads were barely touching. I tried with precision ilf bolts with it and they were even looser. I tried stringing it because manufacturer told me so and the top bolt shot right out. I'm just glad i didn't injure myself. Threads on the riser were so badly made.

[@HawkeyeIK802]

This is just a guy that wants to sell you something, literally anything even if there there is no guarantee of the quality

[@parentalguidancerecommended251]

Agree. I've heard so many horror stories about dealing with him and his business practices and lies just to get a sale. He is a very good salesman.

[@andreypizarro9906]

I bought the Tbow out of curiosity, mostly because it was cheap and I wanted to know what all the fuss was about. I use it with 40lb limbs, and I can honestly say that it has not given me any problems whatsoever. I have shot it for hundreds, if not thousands of shots, and it works just fine. I've even used it for a few competitions and one indoor tournament. In a nutshell, I have two silver medals with that bow and one gold medal for the indoor event. That's my experience with it.

[@dominator146]

This is why videos need dislikes

[@jobagoat]

sob story for what? does the fact that you had to work mean others didnt? dont put down others successes as a result of privilege without knowing better.

[@chrisgaskell3706]

Hi, I believe that both Jake and Steven have a burning love for archery and only desire that it grows. Both, I believe have not come from privileged backgrounds and have had to make great sacrifices for their passion. I hope that these guys do not fall out over this, as they both are striving in their own way of bringing more people into a sport and trying to ensure that it is a sport where those on a budget can improve and get better. Personally I feel that what they both offer along with the likes of Armin Hirmer and NuSenei is much more than all the Federations put together offer to the general archer for free. I don't believe that Jake was personally attacking Steven but within the comments it was obvious that many were negatively alluding to Steven in all but name. Personally I stand by both these guys as they both have a desire to grow archery for the masses and not to keep it for those who can only afford the best. Don't fall out guys your on the same side.

[@Nowhy]

I see a difference, but I wouldn't share that for it is private - gossip is a troublesome force in society.. as is envy...

[@blackspeed69007]

Steve got his business from his dad, here is your difference.

[@TracyPicabia]

@@blackspeed69007 Interesting. If thats true it might go some way to explaining why he seems to have so little regard for the safety of the new to archery customers he sells to. He hasn't had to build that trust.

[@chrisgaskell3706]

@@TracyPicabia His staff often spend two or three hours with new customers who buy a bow at the shop and within this they like most archery shops will cover safety where required, I.e. a novice archer. If you would care to take off your tunnel visioned glasses and research some of the past videos that Steven has done on Junxing, you will find that one of his critiques of them in the past, is that they will supply the same bow to different suppliers, with varying degrees of quality in the materials. He was basically warning of "buyer beware". As Steven deals direct with Junxing and not a third party, the quality that he receives is decent and often way above what US companies are supplying for the same cost. He has also stated that he has had very few problems with there bows. Don't forget there are many large shops in the US and Europe who have Junxing make their cheaper end bows! One of Lancaster's Galaxy risers is I believe made by Junxing (F164). Steven has a turnover of thousands of bows a year, he is not a fly by night, selling stuff out of someone's bedroom. His turnover I believe is in the ballpark of over 1 million dollars US. So why pick on one of the thirty or so different makes of bow he stocks and beat him over the head with it. Sad, why don't you just go and kick a dog, you will probably get the same satisfaction!

[@TracyPicabia]

@@chrisgaskell3706 very glad to hear that about his staff. I will need to keep my tunnel visioned glasses on to kick the dog accurately, if that's alright with you.

[@romankonecny9943]

So... Is it ok for poor people to steal of buy cheap stolen things? And is it ok to sell stolen good to poor people? To me your point of view on intellectual property and morale is skewed - at best.

[@BillSuxtobegaza]

Are you the company lawyer? Who gives a shit?

[@jamesjgill]

My initial impression was that the riser looks a lot like the Formula Xi. I feel your criticism of Legend was fair, and that your advice to customers that there is no warranty is good consumer advice. You should expect to pay for quality. Same with this riser. Powder coating is less. But China has lax IP laws. Maybe it didn't sell well for Hoyt, or maybe it did. But it doesn't mean you get to take someone else's ideas just because their idea wasn't as popular as that company hoped. I want to say I do agree with your point that archery shops should stock target models, even if only a few. Yes, this bow does offer something of good quality to someone on a budget. Because the factory producing it in China did none of the research and development that made this good design. It was Hoyt that paid for the research and development. If Hoyt suddenly disappeared tomorrow, would the factory making this inexpensive copy of Hoyt's riser take on the cost of research and development to advance technology for archers, Olympic, barebow or compound? They would not, it is not their business model. I sympathize with archers who are entering on a budget. I am sure it is the same for people wanting to get a start in golf, ice hockey, or cycling. I hope archery grows this year and for years to come, in your country and mine. I don't have any magic answers to these big questions.

[@lucpet95]

At our club you arent allowed to shoot any bow over 60lbs as well. Same with comps as far as I know

[@HywelOwen]

The Junxing TBow is a nearly 1:1 copy of the Hoyt Formula Xi. The Junxing on this video weighs 2.83lb = 1284gm, which is HEAVIER than the advertised Hoyt Xi weight which is 2.7lb = 1225gm.

[@thomasj8698]

When I rang about the same problem with my tbow hunting bow, I was told they found no problem with all the ones they checked and no one else has complained. I guess everyone buying these bows dont bother tuning them. Nearly ten turns of thread engaged and it still has nearly 2mm wobble in the bolt.

[@honeybadgerclaw4642]

The reviews from archer are different than seller. Archers are easily came out with bias idea because they're can ran their mouth with less risk. Seller can't do that because it can give them bad reputation and the brands/manufacturer will avoid them from selling their products.

[@chrisgaskell3706]

If you don't think Steven calls out manufacturers, you haven't seen all his video reviews. Some manufacturers take his remarks on the chin and make changes. And don't forget some will take away a franchise because someone else sells them a bigger picture which often isn't delivered.

[@honeybadgerclaw4642]

@@chrisgaskell3706 unbias reviews doesn't mean he always saying the sweet good things about all the products. He also complained, suggest and gave out ideas, solution based on his hands on experiences with the products. I agree with his previous video about mathews bow too expensive.

[@chrisgaskell3706]

​@@honeybadgerclaw4642Exactly.

[@StevenBergh-ni3tn]

Based on his experience, including Olympic Silver medals, I'm with Jake Kaminski on this. I would never consider buying anything from your shop as you have never held or shot a Hoyt formula riser.

[@BillSuxtobegaza]

Jake is biased and has relations with these companies he shills for. He was sponsored

[@PaulSimmonsArt]

It's IP theft. On behalf of everyone who has had their ideas or designs stolen, shame on you.

[@Mac1Eleven]

There’s people who can’t afford to buy a en expensive riser maybe, you can’t steal a riser design when they all look similar/same

[@x3roxide]

​@@Mac1Eleven Look up the TBow Storm and then check out the Border Tempest. They look the same sure, but one is at a higher price point and quality. Honestly would have respect for TBow if they just made their own designs. They have shown that they have the skills and tooling to do so.

[@pickle3513]

I had a guy shoot the Tbow riser in our QRE and it was a replica of the Hoyt exceed. We compared it with one of the competitors who had a real Hoyt riser but we could only real see very minor details. I think it will be good as a secondary bow instead of a main bow. In Melbourne their is a shop selling Tbow risers called Topoint archery.

[@davefish8107]

My concern is that when you promote Chinese copies the companies that produce the original bows will lose money to invest in new products and eventually may just stop doing so No one can develop new products just so that china can copy it and sell it cheaper. I worked in the UK in a company that produced electronic equipment for the navy and a Chinese company got hold of our equipment and then produced it and sold it at a tenth of the price Guess what, we don’t sell it anymore

[@rustyshepard9659]

You might have a point but when said company moves its or outsources its production over seas to pay slave wages dont lecture me on not supporting their product

[@BillSuxtobegaza]

Maybe you and your coworkers were overpaid and could not be competitive? Your, job is not my concern, as I'm not being paid by your company to be on their legal team. Same with any company. Their issue not mine. Sorry

[@leo-ff4yn]

Damn I just love how down to earth and honest you are talking about your experience, its so true. Thank you for the review, and story time

[@josephcollins4498]

My Nika ET-12 riser I received just over a month ago looks alot like the Hoyt riser. It has the same limb pockets, the same cutouts in the riser & it weighs 2.8 lbs. The grip is every bit as good as if not better than the Prime compound bows I've shot in the past. It weighs 2.8 # & it shoots great. Couldn't have been happier. The case it was shipped in is every bit as good as the great socks that come with the Nika N-3 limbs. Things r changing & it's becoming hard to maintain transparency in archery target or traditional archery market.😮😅

[@bootsandgear]

The compliant was that the thread was wallowed out in one of the screw holes. So basically a qc stuff up which Hoyt has also had. Its made by people. CNC tooling changeover from worn to new has an effect or didn't clamp it properly or the sent out the wrong screw. Numerous ways to stuff up but without doubt Chinese stuff has improved and in the blink of an eye as happened with Korea welcome to the top tier at which time people will start complain about the price and this whole thing will be repeated with Vietnamese bows.

[@WS_00]

Yeah, but where did he bring it? I’m 8 minutes in and no mention of where he brought it.

[@chrisgaskell3706]

Steven buys direct from Junxing /Taow or Tbow. Jake I believe didn't buy direct from Junxing but from a third party. So there is a possibility that he received a bow of inferior quality to Steven's. Or just a really bad qc bow.

[@kcMan7938]

My first compound bow was a PSE Thunderbolt 60lb lightning cam that I bought from a gun -firearm range shop in small town , Wisconsin. I had Easton aluminum arrows with my setup , and after a few years needed new arrows . I went to a reputable archery shop in Milwaukee,wi to buy new arrows and string , and they looked at my bow and arrow size and determined the size wasn’t the best for bow . I went with victory carbon arrows of course and it turned that bow into a real tack driver. A good archery shop will give good advice to consumer . I ended up buying a new bow from that same shop Diamond Deploy SB A COUPLE YEARS LATER , but my old bow was so much more fun and accurate after the advice I didn’t go anywhere else to buy a new bow .

[@chickimac1]

Recurve or traditional is very hard, at least for me. I generally get more satisfaction out if compound shooting because it’s easier and feel way more confident

[@lanewang1283]

If they have good quality, good product control, they should do there own riser, not coping others.

[@arrowdodgerluvsmarlins1758]

Steven, excellent video. As always, you grow the sport of archery with your insider knowledge shared with your archery fans. You explain why lower priced products are obviously essential for newer archers. Those come with trade-off risks of quality that can be remedied later. Example: say Hoyt includes quality controls that 999/1000 products are perfect out the factory door for 1000 bucks. Compare that to a Kpop archery company putting out 990/1000 perfect products for 500 bucks. Many more archers are participating and future growth is assured. It is so easy to criticize lower priced products from an elevated point of view of any commercial venue. Dunno why folks do that just to sell videos? Does that increase archery participation? I think not. Anyway, keep up the great work and quality videos.

[@Twm532]

Pretty pathetic to call Jake privileged, he worked long and hard to earn his sponsorships. Its not his fault your career as an archer was a failure

[@CatMeow-fn9ko]

Jake is biased just because he was sponsored by Hoyt. He's blatantly slagging off on China products just because he feels the need to suck on hoyts balls.

[@janickgonzalez8900]

You said what we were all thinking.

[@janickgonzalez8900]

And bro really doesn't understand basic things of the sport, heck basic principle of science, a heavier object is harder to move (obviously) and if the bow is to light, you can torque the hell out of it.

[@JoeTheBeanVR]

Ye

[@elizabethfiorella4109]

But now he is, right? It doesn't matter what happened before now he has money to alwys buy the dame things and always work with the same products... yo can learns from him but that doesn't mean that that boy is perfect... sorry... toxic fans

[@elizabethfiorella4109]

I think the problem was that the guy always says negative things because is chinese and a copy he never focused just in the issue or verify if this was a specifc error for a specific stock... and he always says these kind of things because he alwys uses expensive things, he never talk about of good quality products and cheaper... so for me the problem is not the issue the problem is the privilige he talked... so it is nit about one issue it is about that for him everything was wrong... if you see the comments here you can see that a half says that never had that issue and the other 40% said exactly the oposite...

[@YoureSoVane]

If you carefully unfold the cardboard into a flat sheet, it'll fit almost perfectly with another piece of cardboard that factory cut. It might be a different type of box, or it might be the same box, but that's why they have random curves. There's another box that has the inverse curve.

[@skysurferboy]

Are these cheap risers cast magnesium or machined high aviation grade aluminium? Are the cheap risers rated for limbs over 38lb? I understand beginners would not shoot 38lb but intermediates could well shoot 40lb+. I have seen a bow snap at the handle. It's dangerous. TBow don't just rip off Hoyt and WinWin they rip off the small guy like Border Archery. A manufacturer with a handful of employees who all need to feed their kids and are not driving around in Mercedes saloons. None of their stuff was/is made in China. It's made in a shed in Scotland with their own R&D and expensive CNC machinery. Border have been pursued by the guy from TBow trying to get manufacturing details so they can rip off the Tempest riser and sell cast copies for peanuts because they can due to no IP and employee rights in China.

[@bozzco1]

I been shooting a Tbow at 50lb for the last 5 years so yes they can shoot high lb limbs.

[@elobiretv]

That's exactly why people should stop buying from these Chinese companies. They have no idea about the engineering that actually goes into the design of these things and are harming companies like Border that are actually trying to innovate.

[@lordcarnorjax8599]

TBow H8 advertised as "Die-cast from high-strength 6061 aluminum with matte sandblasted anodized surface". I wouldn't be putting high poundage limbs on that riser even if I got one with good tiller bolts.

[@maxschell8823]

Clearly a Hoyt rip off? Fortunately I'm not buying a box. Boxes get damage in shipment. I seriously doubt the manufacturer of a bow sends out damaged boxes. I believe Jake Kaminsky's main point was that the taped hole for the limb bolt was elliptical. When Jake screwed the limb bolt into the riser, the bolt rocked back a forth. I don''t care if you spend $250 for a riser of $1,250 for a riser the manufacturer of the riser should CAREFULLY inspect the product BEFORE shipment to insure; ONE (1) safety of the user. A novice buying bow for the first time may not know what a limb bolt does and/or the safety issues associated with POORLY made product. As a responsible , knowledgeable , quality dealer I'm sure you inspect the bow before selling it to the customer, AND if there are any issues you address those before the riser or bow leaves your business. HOWEVER pity the novice who buys to bow on-line or from a less than quality dealer. CONCLUSION: Caveat Emptor i.e. Let the buyer beware. I believe that was the point of Jake's critique. FINALLY: The riser Jake had in his hands was crap. At least the riser limb bolt taped hole in your riser appeared to be taped correctly. Good luck.

[@ArcherySuppliesLonsdale]

No the limb bolt was smaller - I had the same issue in another bow the Manfucaturer fixed it real quick. The bolts are a few mm off. Once you replace the limb bolts they are tight.

[@Voxguitarsrock]

Could one bolt be metric and the other be standard size? Just a thought

[@maxschell8823]

I'll review Jake's video again in the morning but I believe Jake said the taped hole in the riser he had was egg shaped or elliptical (i'll check the exact wording). If the taped hole is egg shaped, NO limb bolt in the world is going to fix a poorly machined riser. The result was the the limb bolt rocked back and forth. Certainly a safety concern for the archer. @@ArcherySuppliesLonsdale

[@mirror1766]

@@maxschell8823 What he showed and described seemed to be more of a tapered threading so the threading got smaller as the bolt went deeper but in any case it never seemed to be a very good thread engagement.

[@maxschell8823]

Again, this does NOT address the egg shaped taped hole in the riser. The manufacturer is NOT going to make an "egg shaped" bolt for the riser. The only solution IN MY OPINION is to (1) Send the riser back to the manufacturer OR (2) throw the riser in the garbage. Yes, a good machine shop can refit (machine) the riser but the cost to do that would be exceed the price of the riser. @@ArcherySuppliesLonsdale

[@throneofashes6293]

Extraordinary talk, and your honesty and professionalism really shows. I was one of those guys with a budget bow and a limited budget to upgrade it; you and your staff were amazing.

[@Chris-ml3hw]

I like both Jake Kaminski and your videos and think you both are right. I purchase a fair amount of stuff on ebay, alibaba, and amazon and it is now common for people to break a product and return it and get a full refund. And because of the volumes of these products, they probability rarely get fully checked before being resold. Budget products have less QC at the factory and then in addition for all the returns and resellers, there is a fair amount of broken product circulating. The fact that the box in Jakes video was busted up could mean it was a sold as "new" but was in fact a "open box" being sold as new from a reseller. I recently purchased a "open box" (return) push up board from amazon (physical training for archery) that arrived without handles in the box. If the bolts are stripped and could fail then that is a hazard where someone could potentially loss an eye. But I think for the most part this is a more rare event if you are purchasing a completely new budget riser being shipped from China. If worried, buy the same product on your countries ebay, possibly pay a little more, and get a 30 day return window as shipping back to China for a budget item is not practical. Also, if anyone had to fill a long video with product review points you are bound to nit pick to both be rigorous and fill the time. I recently purchased a full archery kit and wanted to buy all the big ticket items from my local shop, and all the small stuff from lancaster. The shop actually either screwed up my order completely, or charged me strange amounts, (one moderate item was 30% cheaper than lancaster (old sale amount?) , one 2x as much...but overall about 30% higher than lancaster). But I do indoor shooting there and wanted to keep a good portion of the sale there and was prepared for the higher cost to help keep them in business. I had to keep emailing and calling the shop because of the errors. QCing the receipts. The wrong riser was corrected but I was too late in realizing I got medium limbs instead of long and many other issues (mixing another customers arrows with my repair arrows, running out of the arrows I requested a month prior, etc etc ). I did not complain to the owner for the awful experience and make a stink because I did not want to feel any bad vibes when I go into there to shoot. I started shooting at another shop closer to my home and their workbench looks OCD clean and organized. If behind all the counters it looks like a bombs hit it, expect chaos.... I believe this too is a rare occurrence and most shops are not like this. I would trust that riser and in fact I would hope that company would make a budget 27" riser because they do not seem to exist. I now need 2 more inches because of my wrong limbs and I already have my dream riser and absolutely refuse to get a second unless it will add value to my archery experience. Jake said in one of his videos he used to prefer longer risers with shorter limbs, so I want to try that setup if the price is right.

[@grantmiller6570]

Yip, that's how it works. People are very budget minded and rightfully so, and you have to start somewhere. I have a reasonably well paying job but I still can't afford those high cost bows and arrows, I get what I can afford. I am looking forward to the test shooting. It'll be interesting.

[@Alan_Edwards]

So I went and watched Jake's video and right off I can say one experience does not mean they are all junk. The point you make about if a product is defective go back to the shop or manufacture is spot on. Just like I would for any tool I purchased at Home Depot. It appears Jake got something out of whack in his order, but to condemn the low budget bows just because they might be copied, is just not reality anymore. Nor is it fair. I get what you mean about first time bow buyers....I was one once. My first bow was a Mathews Conquest 2....which at the time was like $800US. Crazy as it sounds the most convincing thing for me was the root beer color. I could have gotten a much cheaper bow and probably should have since I had no idea at the time if I was going to keep shooting, but I just thought it was the coolest looking thing and I had the money so. Ends up I still shoot that bow some 20 years later....too your second point about return buyers !! I am in the market for my first recurve bow and have watched a ton of your videos and feel much more informed now about the gauntlet of options out there. I would prefer NOT to get a knock off, but I would not know a nock-off riser if it smacked me in the face. What I do know now, mainly from watching this channel, is what are some of the best risers and limbs in my price range.

[@eford7]

I have a lot of respect for your reviews. However, in the event you have not seen it Jake did a follow on to his original review. He goes into more detail including footage of a catastrophe failure prior to reaching full draw. Check it out and see if you still hold this view point.

[@ArcheryGeek]

Always great to hear your opinion. As a reviewer of archery equipment l have found or heard of issues with multiple bow manufactures- Bodnik, Hoyt, Bear, etc. I think the best advice is to go to an archery shop and purchase your bow - buying online is fraught with issues. I realize this isn't an option for most but if you are going to pick up target archery you really should talk to a shop owner. WRT the IP issue... I don't love that the design was used without permission if that is the case. @JakeKaminskiArchery probably should contact the OEM and do an updated review if indeed the limb bolts are not the correct ones. I suspect that most TBOWs are tapped ok and some are not. Anywho.. good video and nice to see your perspective as a shop owner that sells TBOW.

[@deanhubbard2846]

Kiwi viewer here. I love your reviews and your honesty. Also love how you do reviews on both brand names and also the Chinese made bows. Very helpful to those of us who aren't that knowledgeable. Your 40 plus years of experience is mush appreciated. I only wish some of the other KZbin were as unbiased and honest. Keep it up, love your stuff.👍👍👍👍👍

[@TracyPicabia]

How would you feel if you'd bought a Tbow after watching his review and it launched a limb into your eye. Jake's trying to get a serious point over because bad quality control can have very serious consequences.

[@deanhubbard2846]

@@TracyPicabia i think he explained himself quite clearly.....

[@TracyPicabia]

They both explained themselves clearly enough but only one of them wants to profit from selling dangerous junk. Incidently its also very damaging to the budget equipment industry as a whole that he depends on

[@2ndAveScents]

Hey Stephen, love your videos love your channel i’ve been watching you for many years now I appreciate this response and hearing your side of it. I also watch video from Jake when it released and I kind of felt the same vibe. I think you might’ve gotten from it but I won’t say he’s wrong. I know where you’re both coming from and I appreciate both of your videos, I firmly disagree with many of the salty people on here. Looking to put you down for making this response and I want to say that I truly appreciate you offering an in-depth look at this issue from your side. Best wishes to you stay strong glad to see you back in it after the surgery

[@Cpt-Pugwash14]

the box being squashed is the shipping companies fault not the manufacturer

[@lordcarnorjax8599]

Or it's poor packing by the seller? A bit of both I'd say.

[@simonhooper2458]

@@lordcarnorjax8599 identical package to Hoyt though

[@jobagoat]

@@simonhooper2458hoyt does not ship boxes like that, they put the boxes with logos inside sturdier cardboard boxes with appropriate cushioning/wrapping to ensure no damage, as most archery companies do.

[@Reptiles.fossil.dinosaurs]

I purchased the black wolf carbon riser and the grip is so lose and cut wrong no matter how much you tighten it still moves so buying expensive doesn’t mean quality. Im changing the grip so im not fused but the point here is all bows that are mass produced your bound to get some with issues.

[@dappa4608]

I ve just started bow hunting. I am finding out that archery has a lot of elitist people and a lot of gimmicky branded crap. I like your no BS stance keep up the good work people just get angry because they are being deceitful and don't like being called out on there BS

[@x3roxide]

yes and no, as a hunter, try out well respected broadhead brands and compare them to the cheap ju;nk. I'm sure you'll find out how much of a difference there is. Check them in something like an arrow spinner and see the wobble.

[@chrisgaskell3706]

Thanks for the video, I have some 18 bows purchased from Junxing, including the Taow bows, I have had no issues with any of the bows.

[@bartlawhorn2762]

Love you man. Keep the truth coming.

[@knownman5268]

I think your approach to even making this video is out of line. Firstly it seems a bit hypocritical that in one part of the video you complain about how the bow case company from France wrongs you and seemingly you expect everyone to agree to your side of this story without even showing this bow case or photos of it to us. And then in the next part you disect every element of a video that had nothing to do with you, with a product you don't even sell, all under the guise that it couldn't have any validity or that it somehow isn't true because your experience of 40 years suggests it's not possible? Look back at your videos and try and objectively consider the fact that you are often very critical of manufacturers for a wide variety of reasons. I don't see other reviewers criticizing your opinions publicly? Was it such an inconvenience that some possible new customers may call you about his video that you felt so compelled to create this one? You don't even sell this bow anyways. Clearly the bow Jake received is defective. He was providing his account of what he received. The fact that you didn't receive a bow that was in the same condition as his doesn't mean the company isn't shipping out defective versions. Your video is eluding that the brand in question has never done wrong. When you could have just stayed out of it. Or simply show your own unboxing and perhaps give Jake some credit for his experience and suggested that everyone needs to be aware of possible issues and maybe go into how to identify a manufacturing defect. The beginner archer should be thought of especially regarding their safety as they enter a sport that does have a level of danger associated with it. It's not always obvious to a new archer with little experience or more importantly anyone with limited mechanical aptitude that the bow Jake received would be unsafe. You should rethink this and perhaps try to take a less aggressive approach or simply stay out of the conversation. Yes I do think Jake should have contacted the manufacturer about the issue to see what they would do in response. With that in mind, did you try to contact him before you directly attacked his posting? Maybe, maybe not? I kind of lost some respect for you on this one Steven.

[@simonhooper2458]

His comment about the case was that he did reach out to the manufacturer and the issue was not resolved and then he made a public statement. He gave the company the opportunity to rectify the issue first.

[@TracyPicabia]

Well done mate, you got all the way to @23:03 before telling us what a great archer you are. Pretty much every other video I've seen of yours you absolutely can not wait to blow your own trumpet. Which is funny because in those videos your technique is clearly pretty aweful compared to, say, Jake Kaminsky? Or......my 2 year old daughter. Yep, @31:55 !!! BUY QUALITY SECOND HAND NOT dangerous junk

[@wayofarrow]

Hi Steven, i think a lot of the archery public simply dont know that a significant amount of archey gear, components ,bows, limbs and arrows is made in china, even for the major know brands. Perhaps you could do a video explaining this and also that there are OEM factories making parts for multiple brands.

[@InFerrumVeritas]

There definitely are, but TBow is not making flagship Hoyt risers. Hoyt products that are outsourced are clearly labeled as such. Their stuff that says "Made in USA" actually is. The factory's right there in Utah. They hire CNC operators, machinists, etc. quite a bit.

[@blackspeed69007]

High end Winwin risers have "Made in china" stickers on them. They don't hide it. But they still provide the highest manufacturing quality on the market. The issue is not to be built in China.

[@synergytech7323]

Thanks, I'm convinced to buy that TBOW now and I can buy some for friends!

[@frederickwerk2386]

“It’s a sticker that’s stick on” 😂👏

[@erics320]

There are many factories in china (or other cheap labour countries) that make quality stuff for big name brands. It happens a lot that stuf is made that does not meet the standards of the big name brands and its trown in the bin. But someone in those factories like to make an extra buck and sell those parts that are rejected, often under another name, sometimes as original for prices to good to be true. Its hit and miss, if you are lucky you get a very good part that has been rejected due to a scratch or a finish problem. In the worst case you get a piece of scrap metal.

[@THEFALCON58]

Iam an archer, There shop owners (in it for money) and those in it for the frame and then the ones (help newbies don't see much of this )

[@PeterDlutowski]

What’s wrong with humanity these days, buying colour over function!!! We’re obsessed with appearance, hardly considering functional worth. Reminds me of the last couple of episodes of Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. I remember last century when the most common colours were black, red, camo: people concentrated more on function and getting the best fitting bow regardless of colour.

[@Kombatsd]

I just bought the Tbow from you a few days ago and it comes in a plain brown box without the bag 😁

[@garybrewster4988]

Another honest straightforward video, keep it up Steven

[@brianhawk7856]

I bought a tbow because of your review and have been very happy with it. supposed to be a copy of the Hoyt satori, it very well may be. I couldn't justify $1000.00 just to fling arrows in my yard. I'm sure I would shoot the Hoyt just as poorly. Love to watch you shoot and love your videos.

[@romankonecny9943]

Good for you, I hope its color is matchings you fake Rolexes as well?

[@InFerrumVeritas]

You could have bought a Galaxy Artemis, W&W Black Elk, or Oak Ridge Bryon for about the same price. Those wouldn't have been stolen designs made with a questionable manufacturing process.

[@rustyshepard9659]

My point of view as an American if a larger company files for usa patent protection on their product then outsources their labor to a cheaper market and a comparable product is produced im all in after all i run my budget much the same way save cost as long as its effective......

[@macsek666]

1 bad bolt in riser VS my 6 junxing bows with no problem at all. 1peace is not representing the whole company. If where so I wouldn't buy any limbs from many companies. If you have an issue contact seller/manufacturer and deal with the problem. Not a single big/small company is perfect!

[@CampfireKodiak]

I find myself struggling with the ethics delima of should I purchase a bow I really want that is an obvious clone of a high end bow I cannot afford. One one hand it's excellent value and the other hand people will always criticize me for my purchase decision. I do believe in Capitalism and free trade but I wish every country had similar IP rights laws

[@yaksok]

Even on just the box you missed the mark. From a distance, yeah it’s all cardboard. Jake shared closeups that highlighted the differences.

[@teamneveadventures9528]

Love the passion you put into your reviews Steven. Timmo

[@feralgrandad4429]

Great video. No nonsense. No BS. Always good to stop by and watch a video here 😁

[@alexmcdonald3493]

Steven, the issue Jake was raising was the bad qc releasing this bow from the factory , do not attack this person for raising a safety issue with this product. Not everyone is a super smart experienced archer, they would not think to check the issues Jake reviewed. You should be backing him for raising these issues. Great you were an Aussie champ not quite an Olympic champ. The issue was and is a crappy unsafe product pull your head out of your arse and acknowledge this safety issuep

[@phillipgrey7440]

Your talking about service and you don't get that at eBay.

[@robertsimpson6324]

I agree with everything mate people don't know the cost of archery 40 yrs ago and that's why I only buy from you

[@Voxguitarsrock]

Wasnt Jake talking about the cheap ali express copy of the Tbow? Or am i remembering it wrong?

[@Voxguitarsrock]

After watching Jakes vid again i think im wrong on that. However i am a mechanic by trade . And the limb bolt issue that Jake demoed ? How many people would catch that? I wouldnt shoot his version the way it shipped. No way. Thank you for the clarification video Steven. You do a good service for the archery community. Appreciated.

[@ArcherySuppliesLonsdale]

Its interesting the limb bolt issue I have seen before and when you have both limb bolts next to each other they are the same thread - it is like less than a mill difference. One fits tight and one is loose and wobbles. So maybe a manufacturing issue or a bolt of a different bow. I just know they fixed it real quick, once I raised it. It was one batch only. I saw the problem 2 months ago so I guess Jake's bow is the same batch.

[@Voxguitarsrock]

​@@ArcherySuppliesLonsdale thank you kindly for the reply. I really appreciate all your efforts to advance archery. Youre a real benefit to the sport. Kudos!

[@phantomcruizer]

Stephen is crying because Jake mentioned “Aliza archery” in his video instead of Archery Supplies!

[@lordcarnorjax8599]

Eliza is owned by Alec Potts a fellow Olympian and they also stock Jake's own products which is why they probably got the shout out.

[@mr5miffy]

Also Eliza is a very trustworthy shop not just in it for $$$.

[@fa-q-2]

...32 minutes of whining...

[@waynestevenson9613]

Wow! You’re taking a shot at JaKe for telling everyone to be careful when they buy the chinese garbage that you promote! It’s not gonna affect your sales of junk! People will still take chances!

[@chrisgaskell3706]

If you read the comments that practically name Steven on Jakes video, you will realise why Steven has made this video.

[@barrybkopicz2845]

​@@chrisgaskell3706 Those comments were post after Steve posted his "rebuttal".

[@chrisgaskell3706]

@@barrybkopicz2845 Sorry but they appeared three and four days ago. Well before the rebuttal.

[@paulvega9893]

The economic issues world wide is bad. The consumer must shop within his means or just not participate in any archery sport. Bear in America is the working man's bow. Unless we go at Foreign companies like Topoint and Sanlindra.

[@itsjim2875]

Interesting video as always, Steven. Thanks!

[@billoliver8364]

You are selling stolen property. You are happy to do that. That speaks volumes on your integrity.

[@usernameONBEKEND]

The Junxing riser is a copy of Hoyt Formula X from 2019 that weighs in at 2.76lbs (1252gram), the Junxing weight is 2.83lbs (1283gram). There is a big difference in how the dovetail is. I would suggest to focus more on the comparison of the two risers, this video is hard to watch - you're jumping all over the place like a skittish squirrel

[@allenwebster6329]

I watched his video a couple of days ,i thought the same thing about the limb bolts , i was like it was probably sent with the wrong bolts, why i thought that was the same reasons as you explained, maybe he should have contacted the manufacture and told them what the issue was first then after he installed the right bolts he could have done a different video perhaps , Great video, stay safe and god bless, hope your health in improving

[@alexmcdonald3493]

This was not just about the wrong bolts, review the follow up and watch the issues with the bad tapping of the riser. Major fault.

[@allenwebster6329]

@@alexmcdonald3493 yeah if you have the wrong limb bolts the tapping as you say will be wong ,that goes for anything really that requires some type of bolt of the bolt is too bad or small the threads ,we will say the female end wont ne right either ,ive did a ton of research after watching the video several people have agreed ,this video was made just to make a video with all the negative things ,now do your research about the same bow and you will find out the same things as i did some manufactures do make mistakes everyone cant be perfect everyday life isnt perfect everyday ,they sent the wrong limb bolts simple as that have a good

[@cikguOnn]

I am your top fan now 😂 Thanks for the honest review Steve

[@NPC-fl3gq]

I currently own a Legend case or two. NEVER AGAIN!!

[@mrrcassidy]

6.10 - "What bow do you want?......How much do you want to spend?.....I don't care what you buy". 10.38 - "If you have a problem with manufacturer or a product, you go back to the manufacturer" - Why? The customer's contract is with YOU. YOU go back to the manufacturer on behalf of YOUR irate customer. Take some ownership man. Your advertising dollars and time are largely spent acquiring new customers. Retaining them costs next to nothing. Be the best.

[@CriticalTwist]

Your key point aside, you talked about someone that came in to buy their first bow. You let them buy what they 'wanted' and didnt give them any recommendations? I'm actually baffled that you, as an owner of an archery store, would not help a new archer and give them advice. The fact that you almost gloated at the fact that they'll be coming back to buy something else is pretty horrible behavior. So often i see people say "no dont buy thay random ebay or Amazon bow, go into a store and they can help you" and you seem to ignore that all for a quick sale or two

[@rfdsrd]

Spot on! 👍👍