James Horner talks about scoring "The New World"

In a candid interview the late James Horner talks about his disappointment when he collaborated with Terrence Malick on 2005's The New World. Full interview can be found here: www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=14799

[@nicolaslebrun3157]

Incredible to hear all this as someone who didn't see it when it came out, didn't have a sense of these post-production issues, didn't have a preconcieved notion of it as a minor work or flop etc. No disrespect to James Horner - I'm sure this was far from an ideal experience - but in my opinion the New World is not only one of the greatest films ever, but also has basically the most effective use of music in any movie I can think of. The repetition of the Wagner piece is almost unbearably powerful.

[@nikosvault]

Using Das Rheingold is a bit of a cheat code. It would be powerful in Trolls 3.

[@michael_jolls]

This is wild to hear!!

[@blackforestlights]

I love James Horner and I love his scores. In fact, I own this CD and love the score and I've always thought highly of Horner. But I have to fundamentally disagree with him that there is no emotion in this film. This film is heartbreaking, and tragic, and bittersweet, and is actually the only movie I will sit down and watch at least once every year. I think as time has passed, many people have called it a masterpiece. Divisive? Of course. A lot of people really hate this movie. But emotionless? Come now, James. As a director myself, I have to admit, sometimes composers write stuff that I just don't like. And it's really hard to go to them after they've put all their blood sweat and tears into something and tell them that the music they wrote for a particular scene just isn't good enough. Can James Horner really say that his score would have opened that film better than Wagner? Wagner's piece over that opening is cinema magic. I get what he's saying about film cues, but he's ignoring a really huge part of cinema, which is tone. And spectacle. And few directors have a handle on tone and sublime spectacle like Malick. And that opening is one of the great scenes in cinema history. I don't agree that Malick is a photographer. Emmanuel Lubezki is a photographer. And without him, good luck. I think that Malick, at heart, is a philosopher. He studied philosophy at Harvard and Oxford, and later taught philosophy at MIT. He's a thinker. He's a Christian theology savant. He's non linear. And that doesn't always line up with classic, narrative cinema. Honestly, sometimes his movies are really boring. But to say this film isn't a really sublime, bittersweet love story is a bit nutty. I can understand that after scoring Glory and Braveheart and Titanic, it's probably really depressing to have some indie director chop up your work like Malick did. And you can probably never look at that piece objectively. But some of the scenes in this movie are better than what many directors have done in their entire careers. I think a little respect is deserved for that, even if it didn't go as people assumed it would.

[@BoredomEnsues]

Very well said! I agree with a lot of what you wrote.

[@Mythologos]

Well, Horner's idea of a great love story is James Cameron's "Titanic" LoL

[@OldBluesChapterandVerse]

From what Horner says, you’d think Malick would be surrounded by entirely different people on every film, so little faith would his crews have in him. And yet - his editors, his producers, his production designers, etc sign on again and again. You hear them discuss his films in interviews and refer to him as a genius. This interview smacks of sour grapes. Horner was a great composer, and the pieces of his music used in The New World are perfectly suited to the what we’re seeing in those scenes, but for him to paint Malick as someone with no instincts at all for how to use music in film - that’s some hilarious shit. Malick’s use of score and classical music in his pictures is almost second to none.

[@antoniovaldespino6650]

Well this film was the first thing I saw of Terry and is one of my favorite films ever, but I really can understand his anger and disappointment because basically, Terry lied to him and everybody about the kind of film that it was going to do but, I've seen the 2h 50 version and I can tell you, this film is powerful and stunning. I think that sometimes genius (And Terry it is) are not easy to understand at first.

[@superstimulatedminotaur3681]

Damn, brutal.

[@deadairconversion]

From what I know, Horner has a deep understanding of film, and how audiences will react. And I think this shows in many of his scores, even though the movie might not be so great. So I think he had some valid criticisms of The New World, based on his understanding of Music in Cinema.

[@tbthomas5117]

Its sad to hear this. Malick's use of Vorspiel made the film. And, no, it wasn't a love story. Its a story about the birth of '...a New World'.

[@AntoniosPapantoniou]

Two different artists who couldn't comprehend one another. I can understand Horner's POV as much as I can understand Malick's POV, The logic of constructing and re-writing a film in the editing room in a totally free style almost anarchic manner is something a composer like Horner can not accept. But not all films can go by the book of Hollywood and obey the narrative way. I love James Horner scores as much as I love Malick's films. Perhaps Malick miscast Horner in this particular case despite the fact that he probably hired him admiring his musical sensibility. No doubt, having the final cut in such a huge picture is a big asset for a director and the way Malick works can drive everyone crazy and frustrated.

[@OldBluesChapterandVerse]

Horner was disingenuous on that front, though. Malick didn’t have final cut. The studio premiered the film and then told Malick and his editor Mark Yoshikawa they had two weeks to trim 15 minutes from the film before it was released nationwide. Horner has invented swathes of his version of what happened and misrepresented what many of Malick’s collaborators felt about the process and the finished product. When you watch the Criterion special features, you see editor Hank Corwin lose his shit about it at one point.

[@peterpeters1662]

The New World is one of my favorite films of all time, so I completely disagree with Horner. Love the score as well. The simple but beautiful music that plays over the opening credits is one of my favorite pieces he ever wrote. Can't find it anywhere, unfortunately.

[@brmadden895]

It's actually a piece by Wagner called Vorspiel from Das Rheingold

[@peterpeters1662]

@@brmadden895 I'm not talking about the overture to Das Rheingold (As a Wagner fan, I know that piece all too well). No, I'm talking about the music that plays during the opening credits, just before the overture to Das Rheingold starts. I think it's the best piece of the original score, and I think it's not even featured on the soundtrack album.

[@blerdyaheard]

@@peterpeters1662 Pretty sure it's just an edited version of the opening track ("The New World") on the OST.

[@KevinKlineisawesome]

From everything I hear in this video along with some research, It sounds like I don't have to watch The New World to listen to the score album.

[@meglenabojanova]

linkin park Ana maria delson mike shinoda noah love james Horner

[@Mythologos]

This is how Mallick makes every film. Also, it's not a love story, that part never happened.

[@jeffreyksiazek7890]

8:02 😱 I didn't know James Horner cussed. James said a boo-boo word. TWO in this video.

[@irinaspalko7846]

A conventional composer meets a film making artist.

[@elijahanderson3288]

Uh, in my opinion, more like a great composer meeting someone who makes film collages that belong in modern art museums and not movie theaters.

[@Verytrendingnot]

The film is fabulous and got great reviews. Score your music sir and stick to that.

[@akiko3688]

lol he was so mad rip tho

[@Valmont334]

Man, you can tell how angry he is here. He is being SUPER professional and polite(ish), in that he is not crude, but this is as nuclear as he has ever gotten. And he's such a low key guy! Must have really sucked on the set. I can't evaluate the whole situation, but it sounds like Horner was pushed to the absolute breaking point.

[@deadairconversion]

I dunno, check out his criticisms of Gale Ann Hurd, one of the producers of Aliens (as well as Cameron's wife at the time). She and him clashed on how Aliens should be scored. Horner has some good crticisms of The New World. It does seem disjointed and emotionally distant. And I'm a big fan of Terrence Malick.

[@jonathanquickly7957]

@@deadairconversion sure you're a Malick fan SMDH

[@deadairconversion]

@@jonathanquickly7957 Just because I'm a fan, doesn't mean I think they're perfect

[@karlmortoniv2951]

Sounds like Horner was grumpy that a filmmaker would dare to alter his music. He chose not to acknowledge the filmmaker he was working with. Malick has his own way of doing things and Horner wasn’t going to change that, as much as he would have liked to or as much as he felt like such deference was his due as the composer of “Titanic.”

[@nikosvault]

I think the problem is that Malick keept hiring film composers and then ended up using his favorite classical pieces instead. He did the same with Zimmer (Thin Red Line) and Morricone (Days of Heaven). Why hire these guys for a few month if they are going to compete with Wagner and Saint-Saëns.

[@karlmortoniv2951]

@@nikosvault Malick wasn’t the only one who did that. I’m not sure I’ve heard of anyone other than Horner who tried to go around the director to make the the music and the overall movie happen his way.

[@dogmafilm33]

CD wasn't that epic sorry. The Wagner and Mozart did fit. The film was still beautiful despite your bad experience.

[@BoredomEnsues]

I really admire both the album and movie. I don't think Horner was going for "epic", I think he was trying to play up the human emotions of it and it's obvious Malick had something else in mind. I would have preferred it if Horner's score was used more in the movie, but that's just me. I love the movie as it is, but I think it was a missed opportunity. The remnants of Horner's music that still exist in the final cut work well.

[@dogmafilm33]

@@BoredomEnsues well said. I guess I was just disappointed in how dissatisfied Horner was with the film and how many actors were as well although I found it really beautiful.

[@BoredomEnsues]

@@dogmafilm33 Yeah, it's unfortunate. I think he was being a little harsh about the movie, but I guess he was bitter about it. It was not a traditional Hollywood historical epic and I think that's what Horner was expecting, something more in the James Cameron vein. Malick seems to be very divisive, but I have enjoyed most of what he's done.

[@semiote]

James Horner is a great film composer, but the fact that he said "This could have been as a great a love story as Titanic" makes me feel like he's clueless.

[@lastridepictures8812]

Sounds like James Horner doesn't really get cinema.

[@nikosvault]

Art house Cinema.

[@lastridepictures8812]

@@nikosvault i understand why you’d make the distinction. But cinema is cinema and if you don’t understand that a director is going to use your music how they see fit, you’re kidding yourself. If you want your music to stand by itself you can perform on a stage. No one can misinterpret your music or misuse it in the medium of music. The medium of cinema/film is different.