James Introcaso on Rewards and Treasures in Draw Steel

[@Ciran87]

Honestly, the more I hear about this RPG, the more excited I get for it

[@danrimo826]

This was a great discussion! It frustrates me how little thought or examination is put into player rewards. Really refreshing to hear this

[@Graelcase]

Excellent interview, I loved hearing the back and forth on treasure design and what objectives they're meant to fulfill in Draw Steel.

[@Aestus_RPG]

@@Graelcase I'm glad you liked it! I've seen your name around Discord!

[@HeartofArcana]

Another interview with James?? Amazing! The flask rejuvenates again. 🎉❤🎉❤

[@jeroenimus7528]

I love "sandbox items" both as a GM and a player. The creativity needed to make something useful is great to either think up or be surprised by.

[@christianstraubhaar339]

Very cool, I especially like the "give the cool thing when they'll get to use it a bunch" principle

[@jesmichan]

that was such a great interview and conversation, thank you!

[@guamae]

When you were talking about Character Defining Items, it reminded me of the first Norse God of War game. He starts with this Artifact Axe, and it levels with him throughout the game. When he gets a different weapon, there's a Reason and it's a Big Deal... It's not just because it has better stats. I kind of feel like d&d 5.24 is moving away from that, giving mechanical benefits for "Weapon Juggling", and reasons to have a 'hockey bag full of weapons' so you can use different abilities... And it just felt bad, though I couldn't put my finger on why before.

[@Aestus_RPG]

Yes, that is why. There is a reason to do weapon juggling too, and its that it allows you to always give players new stuff, which maintains interest and rewards play. So what we need is a system that (1) allows for regular rewards and changing of the status quo, and (2) allows players to hold on to the character defining items. Is it possible to do both? I think it definitely is, and I have my preferred solution. Ultimately though, I am a nobody. I'm not a professional designer. So what's interesting is to see what the professionals deliver.

[@guamae]

@Aestus_RPG yeah, I'm getting pretty tired of d&d, right now my interest has been focused on DC20. They haven't done magic items/item progression yet, but I really like the idea of Enhancing /powering up, a specific item more than tossing your old magic sword for a new one.

[@InuyashaHanyu]

@@Aestus_RPG Although even a professional has started as a non-professional somewhere. ;)

[@BasementMinions]

Absolutely fantastic interview!

[@mcolville]

I wasn't aware that "loot" was a problem that needed to be "solved" in RPGs.

[@Aestus_RPG]

Its like an engineering problem. By "solved" I mean we innovated it!

[@JigShaw_Games]

Everything’s a problem if you try hard enough

[@jeroenimus7528]

On the note of stories: it's a scientifically proven fact that we humans value something more if there's a story attached to it. Now how we got our loot is a story in itself, but how the loot got to be, or got to be where it was found, makes any loot much better in and of itself. (Plus all these storybeats could be a potential storyhook)

[@chriswilkerson4074]

I only found your channel and explored your content because of Draw steel interest FYI

[@Aestus_RPG]

I've got at least two more Draw Steel Interviews in the pipeline, so stay tuned!

[@timothykrzywonski]

Neat interview

[@hive_indicator318]

Ignore that Mc Olville person. Obviously forgot there was a homework assignment

[@spacemans.3936]

I think this is the first time I've subscribed to a channel & possibly even commented on a video after at least 15 years on this platform but I really wanted to address your remark at the very end of this interview which seemed slightly frustrated. I know these DS/game dev videos probably won't be very popular on the whole. The space on the Venn diagram where 'people so excited about this specific indie ttrpg that they want to watch content about a game that's not even out yet' and 'huge a** game design nerds' intersect is pretty small. So if you feel like the juice isn't worth the squeeze at the moment or that making DS content stands in the way of getting your channel to where you'd like it to be I'd totally understand that and tell you to follow your heart. Make some more cool BG3/Pillars of Eternity content. I just wanted to let you know that I, myself, really loved these interviews and would be very excited for more stuff like this.

[@Aestus_RPG]

Thanks for the comment! I didn't mean to come across as frustrated. I just want to try to get a picture of what the audience for this stuff is. I thought I'd let folks know I am in an evaluation phase, so if they wanted to weigh in, now is the time.

[@spacemans.3936]

​@@Aestus_RPG Yeah, I might have also just projected some frustrations of my own into your statement at the end. It's really sad to me that YT's algorithm punishes channels so much for more niche content like this interview, which shows off really fascinating creative processes. I guess I'd just love to live in a world where diversity in art gets rewarded instead of suppressed xP But enough of this cynical nonsense. There's no use in worrying about stuff we can't control, anyways! And I could just be prepping my next ttrpg session, instead :) So don't take my above comment too much to heart. Except maybe for the part where I said that this interview is really dope ;)

[@Aestus_RPG]

@@spacemans.3936 Thanks for the kind words! It means a lot!

[@nicholaskarlsson4218]

Hey man, unrelated but did you hear with Patch 8 every BG3 class gets an additional official subclass added from Larian? Will there be a video on that after it drops? Arcane Archer returns!

[@Aestus_RPG]

@nicholaskarlsson4218 Yes! I am working on a video on that right now!

[@Kaboss667]

Trying to wrap my head around a weapon called Sloth that bestows benefits for embracing the vice. I'm struggling. Embracing Wrath totally makes sense. But, of the 7 deadly sins, the thought of turning Sloth into a power tickles me the most.

[@Aestus_RPG]

@Kaboss667 Haha, sloth isn't on my list. I didn't use the seven deadly sins. For example, I have vices like "Tyranny" or "Apathy" etc. Sloth does sound cool though!

[@Aestus_RPG]

@Kaboss667 Here's an angle for a Sloth ability: Sloth At the start of your turn, you may choose to become dazed until the end of the turn. If you are dazed from sloth, reduce the heroic resource cost of all heroic abilities by 3.

[@Kaboss667]

@@Aestus_RPG Sold

[@InuyashaHanyu]

This channel keeps growing on me with this content ^_^

[@connors7078]

I love giving items new features in game. After slaying a dragon, I gave the character's sword magic powers in line with that. It became magic and gave resistance and bonuses vs dragons for eg.

[@InuyashaHanyu]

Aestus, do you play many different TTRPGs?

[@Aestus_RPG]

@@InuyashaHanyu I usually have a favorite that I play the most, but yes, I've played many others. Why?

[@InuyashaHanyu]

@Aestus_RPG Im creating a TTRPG and look for feedback but also someone to interview in general about what they look for in one. Which varies wildly potentially. Ideally I chat with some outside of my direct bubble too, ideally having played a variation of systems or games.

[@Aestus_RPG]

@@InuyashaHanyu If you look at my channel details you will find my business email. Send me an email about your game and I'll look into it.

[@azzaelulbrinter]

what i dont like about leveled items is that it creates a pre-defined path and indeeds sets a lot of a character identity into an item. Said item inmediatly gets a level of plot armor (cant be stolen or lost without a serious plot thread) and the character can't really move away from that item now. I prefer character progression to be somewhat random and mostly decided by actions and the story in an emergent way, instead of players having a catalogue of magic items and wishlisting them to the DM.

[@Aestus_RPG]

Yes to the plot armor, although I think that's already the case, even if you don't use leveled treasures. If you steal your players favorite magical items, they will probably hate that. Maybe its fine with your particular players, but its not fine for players broadly. I also don't like it when players wish list items, but I don't see why that's entailed from leveled treasures. I've been using leveled treasures for years without players wish listing them. Can you explain your reasoning on that to me?

[@azzaelulbrinter]

@@Aestus_RPG tbf i am not aware of the details of leveled items, but what i get is that they are like "at level 3 you get this, at level 8 you get this", right? Well, in my eyes that looks like another block for the min-maxers to build their perfect character, knowing exactly how their weapon will evolve through time. Currently, min-maxers often "wishlist" certain magic items to complete their "builds", this is a more guarenteed way that they know how the item will end up like. I would prefer if the item gains properties with time, but not predefined, maybe slaying an elemental with the weapon grants elemental powers to the weapon and the like. It could just be me tho, I am a bit "traumatized" by min-maxers and those who prioritize creating a strong character instead of a strong narrative for said character. (For example, one time i had a player who wanted to play as a tiefling, but using the human variant rules for everything mechanical, tiefling being just a skin, plus he wanted a fiendish pact, but wanted the hexblade mechanics cause they were stronger)

[@Aestus_RPG]

@@azzaelulbrinter Your understanding of leveled treasures is basically correct. If you want to know more, I linked one that I designed in the description of this video. So, yes, players will know ahead of time what they are going to get from their item. However, that is different from wishlisting to me, because they don't know which item they will get, that is still determined by the GM. Once they have their items, they can make a build to min max around their item, but they can't do that BEFORE getting their item. That is the difference to me. TBH, a lot of the problems you are describing sounds like you are fighting against your players having fun. Its fun to min max :D That's a really fun thing that's a part of the hobby! So I personally WANT my players to be able to do it by looking ahead at what their item will give them!

[@azzaelulbrinter]

@@Aestus_RPG with the perspective you bring of characters getting the items and then shaping their characters around it, it does sound better. It creates emergent storytelling which is what i am always looking for. Regarding my "trauma" with minmaxers, comes because i was one of the administrators of a west marches style college group, so i had to be constantly policing that things were balanced so no player felt favored by the DMs With my regular group i enjoy throwing them candies and see what they do with it. Speaking of the hither thither style items, one of them bought a rope of climbing and omg the things they have done with it. He literally tied it around a dragon's leg to fly and then climb into its back to attack its rider. He almost lost the rope as he was dropped by the dragon, but used feather fall to get 60 ft below the dragon, 10 ft too low to grab the rope, but holy sh*t he also had a whip. He used the whip to quickly tie it to the rope, and then climb it again.

[@Aestus_RPG]

@@azzaelulbrinter Ah, min maxers in a west marches college group does sound like a whole other issue haha!

[@Tysto]

You already level up yourself and get a +1, +2, +3.... Your magic weapon should only improve when it's replaced or enhanced by crafting to be better, not automatically. However, I lean toward replacement, because I think we underestimate how much gambling factored into OD&D. You rolled up the treasure, so nobody knew what the PCs were going to get. Will there be a magic item? If so, what kind? Roll that up too. Sure, salt your dungeon with interesting stuff, but also roll some stuff randomly.

[@Aestus_RPG]

I'm sorry to say I completely disagree, but you do what you think is cool!

[@connors7078]

I am not really for having all these pre-determined magic items either. Simply add more features when the story dictates. My B&B game is siloed into themes, so I just grab a Talent or Power from the Talent Tree/Silo, such as Storm or Evil.

[@matthewvillanueva4420]

I mean... MCDM isnt going to come unto your house and break your legs if you decided to change what the items can do to be more appropriate to your story Nothing is also stopping you from homebrewing your own items if you really wanted to homebrew. But they have their own list of treasures that you can reward at your own discretion

[@torinmccabe]

Loot has been solved all too well by gacha gambling games. Each session players can be rewarded loot points similar to hero points or experience points. At the end of the game session they can use those loot points to roll on random loot tables or they can wait until they get 5/10/etc loot points to roll on even more valuable loot random tables.

[@Aestus_RPG]

I think we are solving for different things.

[@SabreRunner]

"Am I making sense?" "No, you absolutely are." What happened to language?

[@Aestus_RPG]

@@SabreRunner It's finally ascending

[@MrThaumaturgical]

I thought the thumbnail was Matt Gaetz