Death & Afterlife: From Homer to Plato--Overturning the World

[@AmyIrene26]

I'm learning so much from this series. Thank you for taking the time to make it.

[@bibitu26]

Thank you Dr. Tabor for such meaningful series

[@dissidentfairy4264]

Thank you Dr. Tabor. Your lesson in ancient history regarding the afterlife is fascinating! 🧚‍♀

[@77goanywhere]

This series is helping me to understand many of the themes I only ever understood from a Christian perspective, but which have deeper roots. James Tabor is able to convey this understanding with a degree of respect and appreciation for the various beliefs of peoples, while remaining objective and scholarly. Really loving his non-condescending treatment of the subject.

[@26beegee]

For a long time I have thought about how belief systems were influenced by each other, having specific illustrations is very valuable. Your portrayal of Socrates death was masterful. Wow!

[@paigerasmussen5212]

I'm so glad you're doing these talks that bring things together. Thank you.

[@mercy1962]

Gotta love how Plato explained the simulation hypothesis so well with the cave

[@cyepez]

Thank you for your labor of love in disseminating this essential content Dr. Tabor. It is is really mind bending, when you really ponder about it, how the views on death and the afterlife actually do shape how we live our lives.

[@OffRampTourist]

This series becomes more interesting with each new video. I keep going back over them late in the evening and get more out of them each time.

[@mdlahey3874]

A particularly excellent episode, Dr. Tabor, thank you!

[@georgegallery4470]

Thanks Dr Tabor. Meaningful to me.

[@stormlord1984]

Thank you so much, Professor. You are simply amazing. Intelligent, knowledgeable, and charismatic. One of the best, if not the best, teacher I ever had!

[@junepatterson7928]

Thank you so much. Orphans in grief. Nothing could be more true. As always. Thank you so much for continuing to teach even in your retirement.

[@ckotty]

What a beautifully succinct, and hopeful, description of their beliefs . Many thanks 👋🏽👋🏽👋🏽

[@lindabishop1402]

I love the way you teach. Your enthusiasm keeps my attention, I have ADD and can sit and listen the whole way thru, if I drift off, I rewind a little and continue. 😊😊 Love you Dr Tabor, can't wait to learn about the latest DNA results ❤❤😊😊😊😊

[@peterhook2258]

Thank you. Its awesome to attend these advanced lectures of knowledge and have access to an astute scholar right here on youtube!

[@tanyamichelle311]

Amazing work! I continue to learn so much from you. Greatly appreciated. Thank you so much!

[@rydomi]

You are very much appreciated! I truly enjoy learning from your many meaningful teachings. Thank you from Austin, TX

[@kenmcclellan]

Much enjoyed the Orphic passage around the 12 minute mark. The same idea can be found in the Bible. In Psalms 69: Deliver me out of the mire, and let me not sink: let me be delivered from them that hate me, and out of the deep waters. Let not the waterflood overflow me, neither let the deep swallow me up, and let not the pit shut her mouth upon me. In Isaiah 56: Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people.

[@FretnesButke]

This is bringing up pleasant memories of my 1st Philosophy class ever at Cleveland State U,circa 1980. We read Plato's "The Apology". Heartfelt thanks,Professor Rosenbaum. Thanks,Prof. Tabor.

[@dadedowuh]

One of your most useful videos I've absorbed. Thank You, Michael Jeremy Leavitt

[@blkshk1]

Never thought about no read about other than scripture but this is enlightening, thanks for daring to publish!

[@laskartrece]

That was a beautiful lesson. Thank you.

[@bob.beaverson]

This is a wonderful series. Thank you!

[@TomDavisAtSundown]

You again did a great job of providing a broad overview showing enough detail to substantiate the issues. You again pulled me out of the box of my past indoctrinations. I fully agree with 26beegee "Your portrayal of Socrate's death was masterful". That scene as I felt it (not the painting) will be with me for a long time.

[@waltershumer4211]

Really enjoyed this what a great storyteller!

[@riley02192012]

My favorite channel. I love your videos so much. ❤

[@asdaisy7759]

Thank you Dr.Tabor, amazing lecture.👏❤️

[@historysmysteriesunveiled8043]

Great presentation @Dr Tabor ❤

[@mintoo2cool]

this is blowing my mind. great stuff

[@carolelouie]

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for this wonderful series and for sharing your knowledge and wisdom so generously. I will never forget reading your book "The Jesus Dynasty" many years ago. Our world needs to know this stuff. Thanks to KZbin and the Internet, it is readily available for anyone. Again, thank you.

[@Suzume-Shimmer]

Excellent ! Striaght from the holy spring.

[@danielandrasko750]

Thank you for this. Very interesting and enlightening.

[@Okaydokie001]

I’m Gnostic so your insights give me freedom! thank you 🕊️you have a beautiful heart 🤍

[@darthorama]

Thank you again. This series is so interesting. I’m always ready for the next part immediately after watching. Bingeing beliefs LOL

[@caroledesjardins7303]

Dr Tabor I was a Jehovah witness for many years I am learning so much I appreciate very much your teaching

[@andrewbowen2837]

Dr. Tabor, you remind me of the archaeology professor I had as an undergraduate, with similar appearances and the same mannerisms of speech. I am envious of this project you are building out, with a genealogy of death and the afterlife. I have long been interested in studying what EB Tylor called "survivals," or cultural relics from prior civilizations that persist into our current age, and I have long been interested in the development of our worldview today. The most I have gone into such topics would be with the concept of disgust, but it was not something exhaustive, and then alternatively, I have written on the development of judicial review in the US Supreme Court, and on the development of defining traits in the Southeastern US native tribes. Something that you are doing that is much more far-reaching and impactful would be something I aspire towards. For now, I am writing my thesis on memory and forgetting in terms of artifact deposition. Of course, a portion of this video touches on the topic when in the afterlife, there is a lake of memory and forgetting. I was wondering, when the prayer protagonist wanted to take a sip from the lake of memory because they were parched and dying, could this mean they want to live on through memory? Doesn't one have to interact with the forgetting lake before reaching the memory one, which could be a metaphor for the forgetting of the physical form, or even the slow forgetting of a person in general, over time? Another thing you mentioned that interested me was how these golden prayer sheets were placed next to a person's ear. This reminds me of Marshall Luhan's idea of media theory and revolutions, where prior to Gutenberg, people were more audible in terms of their means of perception and remembered things more through sound, and then the printing press made us much more visual in terms of ontology and memory. Do you think that could play a role in the sheet placement?

[@aquarianmasterstroke2958]

Extraordinary exposition

[@Thehaystack7999]

This is just remarkable!

[@nickacca]

I love your channel

[@USA50_]

Thanks for these videos 😊❤🇺🇸

[@laurenjones3184]

Thank you Dr Tabor. Have you read the katha upanishad? It was written around the time of Plato and contains a dialogue with Yama god of the underworld.

[@dionysianapollomarx]

Would love to find this series in book form. Sounds extremely fascinating and plausible, especially after reading a lot of the work of Pagels, Macdonald, Litwa, and others.

[@lm7338]

I read that Hebrew "olam" comes from a root which means unseen/hidden (but usually used to connote eternity, or in modern times "world") From there you can draw interesting speculative connections to Hades.

[@martinlakeuk]

Really enjoying this series, thank you Dr. Tabor. I was wondering if you’d consider discussing these topics in future videos: The influence of Egyptian religion on the origins of Christianity. Or perhaps, my favourite curiosity, expanding on the fate of the Jesus movement, wether it died out after a few generations of James’ family, or if it continued, perhaps even to this day, (I’d love to think that it did; and no, I haven’t read Dan Browns novels! :). ). I think this might be something both you and Simcha Jacobovici have touched on previously? Best, Martin.

[@bunjidogg]

I need to study more on how we went from no soul, just dirt in the ground, to an immortal soul with Socrates/Plato.. Where did they get this idea? Seems a momentous leap.

[@Pure_Light_of_Gnosis]

The catalyst are Ancient NDE and STE.

[@Pure_Light_of_Gnosis]

Read modern accounts of NDE there are many KZbin channels dedicated to it. It Will completely answer this question

[@linin3288]

They were initiates to the Greek mysteries which would be equivalent to the modern secret societies like freemasonry which taught them this ridiculous esoteric bullshit and they spread it yo the public.

[@Rithymna]

Wonderful video

[@TupacMakaveli1996]

Best video ever on the topic , the evolution of rituals and mythology of death. Btw the orphic afterlife journey has a couple of similarities with Islamic afterlife. In the prophetic traditions, it is always emphasized the "right side" just like orphic hymm says do not to the left but to the right. And then there are guardians to whom one must reply. Similarly in prophetic traditions it says when a person dies the angels ask him three question to which must reply and on the day of judgement, a person will come to a lake of water as well where Mohammad will be present to give water to his followers.

[@davidtyler3116]

Excellent foundations.

[@0ptimal]

Great stuff

[@colincrisp1592]

Thank you. ❤

[@endtimeawakening5557]

I see Plato's cave allegory as a picture of humanity in the valley of decision. The cave contains those that were born there and controlled by the puppet-masters since birth. There's a sense of safety within the cave, much like any other prison where you're told to do things, completely controlled by a "superior" class of people. Freedom lies on the outside of the cave, but with freedom comes the weight of responsibility. You'll nolonger be taken care of by your captors, as you're now responsible for yourself in this vast world outside. With freedom comes danger, uncertainty, challenges, rewards, etc. Most will choose to return to the cave, finding it easier to be a government slave as opposed to doing the hard work that freedom requires. Think of the prisoner that's become "institutionalized" after a long stay in prison. They've been taken care of and told what to do for so long that they see the "outside of the cave" as overwhelming, often committing another crime to return to the safety of the cave...

[@dadedowuh]

"I learned more from Legos than Playdough" Leavitt

[@dadedowuh]

"I learned more from Legos than Playdough" Michael Jeremy Leavitt

[@laurenjones3184]

The Orphic plate inscriptions remind me of the content of the Isha Upanishad too. “He who knows That as both in one, the Knowledge and the Ignorance, by the Ignorance crosses beyond death and by the Knowledge enjoys Immortality. The Breath of things is an immortal Life, but of this body ashes are the end. OM! O Will, remember, that which was done remember! O Will, remember, that which was done remember.”

[@michael_stanley]

Good Job amigo

[@laserus3333]

I drown. I was resesitated 45 minutes later. My buddy lied to the paramedics when they asked how long I'd been dead. "10 minutes," lol I had an experience and it was not what I expected. There's more to all this than we can fathom. And there is no death.

[@colincrisp1592]

I'm a soverin spirits. And I and go to my highest self. I revoke all contracts. This soul trap is a hell realm. This is my creed for the after life. So far. Thank you

[@hereonearth182]

we are in the world of false light..the shadows ..Love the movie "city of ember" about the underground city and them getting out.

[@debrapaulino918]

Just musing. If these are developments in the minds of era philosophers, can we conclude we do not know what awaits after our departure? I believe in afterlife from the premise that the paranormal exists.

[@321ssteeeeeve]

Would this lead to Neoplatonism, then esotericism which suggest the “realms” are other dimensions of the same creation, created by the same?

[@mikewilliams235]

The best way to illustrate this is to say you don't say what you believe. You just spin a tail.

[@SleepyPotterFan]

So, Socrates was on his deathbed, trying to get his disciples to understand his real message and they just weren’t getting it and trying to comfort the mortal body? That sounds a little familiar.

[@TheVabish]

Isn't the 'fuller version' a reconstruction by a modern scholar?

[@aresaurelian]

Men in the ancient Greek world tried to gain immortality and living after life by believing in things they cannot prove, nor know. All to comfort the dread of one day dying, because of the failing body. The ancient warriors, like Homer’s Achilles would have inspired, sacrificed themselves on the battlefield to gain immortality as heroes by valor, honor, and glory. To manage the fear of one day dying, because of the suffering that old age brings and without being known. This also served a purpose to not fail by morale, or panic on the field of battle in the face of certain death. Serving to protect those at home by giving their blood to the field. We see many tragedies in plays of ancient Greek manuscripts, all in the belief that there is an afterlife. I think Plato’s allegory of the cave meant that there is more than only what we can see, not necessarily that there is sensory perception once you, as the living machine of organic matter, stops working. And our afterlife is in the form of our children, living on from our image through our bodies and our teachings.

[@shanemage5771]

Dr. Tabor, I find your death and afterlife series both fascinaring and valuable. But I'm afraid that you entirely misunderstand Plato's "Cave" image. It has nothing to do with death and afterlife. Sokrates most explicity introduces it to explain a *different* image--the "divided line"--that his unphilosophical conversants are quite unable to understand: the "divided line" expresses the primary Platonic metaphysical relation between two aspects of reality (each divided proportionally in two parts, so that the middle segments of the line are mathematically equal to each other)--the realm of "opinion" (derived from empirical sense-impressions) and the realm of "reality" (derived dialectically from scientific mathematical and higher-conceptual analyses of natural--in the Spinozist, *natura sive deus*, sense--processes. Even the "Myth of Er" (in which is perhaps the first explicit Greek recognition that day and night are produced by the rotation of Earth on its axis) scarcely can be said to express Plato's view of the afterlife. I believe that he would agree with Herakleitos that "after death things await men that they cannot anticipate or even imagine."

[@blangtok]

❤❤❤

[@Margo714P]

Isn't Odysseus pronounced 'O-dis-ee-us'? Maybe Dr. Tabor knows something about how to pronounce it that I don't?

[@Pure_Light_of_Gnosis]

Interesting series I love reading Plato. In the east this idea has always existed that the spirit is immortal. My opinion is that Plato was simply reiterating it. Infact I am a Jain and the things Socrates and Plato say are the basic template of Jainism One other detail I would add is that yes in genesis it says creation is good but this was before the fall of man. After the fall and birth of sin creation is now tainted in the Christian view. Man is depraved and the world is depraved

[@dadsonworldwide3238]

Greeks are getting 800 years of tradition within the alphabetical exodus carrying all of sumerian,Assyrian, connanite of course Egypt and Judah. I guess they use linear A & b up till just before homer. Its nothing like this in those translations of linear A or b . Well we don't how to read one but it's not much to read.

[@Bever71]

Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die.

[@richardwest6593]

A Police Man wrote a book about how he was the cop who sorted out the many suicides on the Golden Gate Bridge. Of the few that survived, they all said the same thing, they all knew they had made the wrong decision the moment they jumped. You should have believed God and not what Job said.

[@lindabishop1402]

Wow, that's so heartbreaking 💔 😢 for those that died. 😢 yikes!! Th😊asks for sharing dude. Peace ✌️ to you.

[@jcavs9847]

Nietzsche has gotten much wrong about history, but this he seems to have gotten right... the reversion of values from world/life affirming ("the worst life is better than death") to a focus on the other world (the "hinterwelt")

[@waynewright1209]

Boy! This makes me think of the apostle Paul in Philippians 1: 21 To live is Christ, and to die is gain

[@Outrjs]

Please read your Authorized King James. It will tell you everything you need to know for the afterlife.

[@Darisiabgal7573]

Yes because a rather irreverent king has more authority than a scholar who has studied two magnitudes more literature. Free your mind the rest will follow.

[@Outrjs]

@@Darisiabgal7573 I think you should study how the Authorized King James came to be. It would help you tremendously. KZbin has plenty.

[@Outrjs]

@@Darisiabgal7573 A Lamp in the Dark

[@Darisiabgal7573]

Wee, so the way to get out of the cave of illusions is to jump into a firey volcano. Not sure what the point is "hey, everyone! can you smell my burning hair and flesh over the smell of sulfur, that proves I'm a god" I can only imagine how insufferable peoples lives were to have such dismal ideas about the afterlife. One point I would make to take this back to the bronze age. People often buried their dead under the flagstones which made up the floors of their houses. This goes back to catalhoyuk which appears to be some type of important neolithic culture. But to bury the loved ones undee the house you needed to deflesh them. The Gobekle tepe might have been one of those sites were you let the ravens and other carrion eaters consume the flesh. And so Hades was a place were they probably took their dead to be defleshed and the various points along the way come from embellishment of that process of taking ones beloved dead to be defleshed. And then one would go away for sometime and fetch the dead. And so the god Hades was just a sprite of the place, like the spirit of carrion eating cave beetles. And so we can see "purgatory" is the process is the process of removing the defiled flesh from the bones, where the bones could be taken back and be among ones community, buried under the flag stones or in some pottery. In Jericho they would anneal clay to the skull and cover it with aqueus lime to kind of bring the skull back to life. The convergence of the stories about the dead reflects one thing important during the early bronze age. Your whole meaning of life in an early city was piety to the gods, how you supported temple life. In turn the temples brewed beer and made sure everyone had some support. This reflected the closeknit relationships between people in farming societies. What did it matter if you ascended after death if the whole community languished in you life? And so the context of life in mesopotamian was centered around communal culture. Though I do find one thing utterly fascinating, that across multiple cultures people saw sheol as a kind of communal place wear the lifeless muddled around together. Was it likely that a king and a slave be buried in the same pit? So even in the bronze age people seem to have a mystical understanding that there is a, if not low level, communion of the dead. Fantastic series so far

[@joaopedrobarbosacoelho455]

Man, Plato gave this world so much bullshit hahahah

[@floetry1111]

Should we all drink a cup of Hemlock, and go where we ought be?

[@nicolasnicolas3889]

Aye, for sure the world is flat, I looked, it's flat! 🥰😇

[@josephturner7569]

Tom Campbell. Donald Hoffman. Freddy Silva. The answers are all there.

[@neclark08]

...an "Orphic religion" / "Orphism" being a Mystery Faith the followers of which honored Orpheus--the mythic lyre-playing poet who descended into Hades to bring his beloved wife Eurydice back to the World of the Living... I'll stop there, since the initiate religion also involved reverence for the earlier transit of Dionysus into- & back from the Greek Underworld--whose suffering- & death at the hands of the Titans became associated with vineculture--in which his dismembered body represented the crushing of grapes to yield sacramental wine (sound like half of the ritual representation of somebody else?) Add in the back-story of those spiteful Titans, the vengant lightning-bolt of Zeus reducing the Titans to the ashes from which Humankind arises...it makes my head spin...

[@dougdoughonolulu9013]

Reincarnations: FISH, BIRD, HUMAN, and then the rebirth ceases. Sounds Buddhist to me

[@happytofu5]

I wonder if they were influenced by these ideas, or came up with their version on their own.

[@waltershumer4211]

This reminds me of Buddhism and Hinduism somehow!

[@debrapaulino918]

Interesting christianity says it is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement; and stand before jesus whereby he will say yes or no. So from a gold dinted prayer in hades (improvement over sheol) to just a name. Quite a leap. It all conveys fear with hope.

[@lynndunning1545]

The angelic realm that chose to be on earth and their offspring, it is their names that are not in the book of life.

[@nicolasnicolas3889]

One cool thing about the other realms is that there isn't a new world order Wiki-Poo-Dia page they can stick under the video to make sure that people continue to do 'right think'!? 🤣

[@Ouranos369]

In my opinion suicidee would create karma and lead the soul to be trapped in the reincarnation cycle. The only way to become enlightened is to realize you are not the body therefore you must not hate the body or life why would you if you are a God yourself and chose to came down here for a lesson. Body is only a vehicle for the soul why would that be bad what would be the point of being born. Life is sacred to the divine. Man is the only corruptable to think there's such a thing as sin. So creation IS good but it's also not all there is and there is no separation from the divine: that's the illusion to break.

[@jdaze1]

I even I I am YHWH. Besides me there is NO savior. Isaiah 43:11. Put not your trust in Princes nor a "Son of Man" in whom there is NO SALVATION Psalm 146:3. You shall worship YHWH your God with ALL your heart soul mind and strength and HIM ONLY shall you serve. (Said Jesus quoting the 1st commandment). Matthew 4:10. Worshipping a man as God is an abomination that causes desolation. Deut. 13. Daniel.

[@turnfrmsinorhell_jesus]

🔥Holy spirit confirms Jesus was Gods son born in the flesh as a human on earth. He died for our sins even though his life was blameless. Before initial sin Adam and eve were blameless. They then ate from the forbidden tree of knowledge and from there on they knew good and evil . Therefore Just as through the one man Adam (initial sin) many became sinners just so through the one man Jesus Gods son many will be made righteous . Believe in Jesus , repent and turn from sins and get baptised to be saved to paradise instead of hell for rebellion . Please read bible book luke on how to be saved. Once you obey the teachings of Jesus great joy and peace will enter your life as Gods spirit fills the void in your life that nothing else could fill . Peace and blessings 🕊️

[@dissidentfairy4264]

Hell=Sheol=Hades=Pit=Grave=non-existence=dead. Man does not have an immortal soul. The Bible doesn't teach it. "The soul who sins is the one who will die." It doesn't mean we don't have hope via a resurrection. We do! 🧚‍♀

[@turnfrmsinorhell_jesus]

@@dissidentfairy4264❗ Mark 9:47 if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into 6hell fire48 where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’(Jesus)

[@TK19]

Very on topic. Thanks.

[@dissidentfairy4264]

​@@turnfrmsinorhell_jesus It's symbolic not literal. It means eternal death, nonexistence. God often uses "fire" in the Bible to describe "cleansing" in a symbolic manner. Religion has the immortal soul and hellfire doctrines wrong! The soul can die just as the Bible says, but a person is not going to be eternally tormented. What kind of God would do that? Imperfect man does not torture prisoners. They are either put to death or they are given a life sentence. They are not tortured because man has an element of love and compassion in him. If we only have a fraction of God's love what would torture say about God? What did God tell Adam and Eve? He said, "The day you eat of the fruit...you will positively die." He didn't say they would be tortured for all eternity. To think that God is capable of eternal torture is lowering Him beneath man in terms of his morals and ethics, which is an insult to God. It would make him a monster. Religion is slandering God if you stop to think about it. They are falsely accusing Him.

[@dissidentfairy4264]

@@turnfrmsinorhell_jesus That's symbolic not literal.